How religion affects the economy. Why are Orthodox nations poorer than Protestant or Catholic?

Please, support Religiolog through a one-time donation: www.paypal.com/paypalme/religiolog
Or become my Patron: www.patreon.com/4religiolog
Have you ever wondered why Orthodox Christian Nations lag behind in their development compared to their Western neighbors? It has been observed by scholars for a long time that the poorest countries in Europe are Orthodox ones, then followed by Catholic and the most prosperous and happiest are countries with the Protestant foundation. But why is that so? In their work, former Bulgarian finance minister Simeon Djankov and Elena Nikolova of University College London, analyzed data from over one hundred nations to study the correlation between religious background and attitudes. They concluded that Eastern Orthodox believers are less happy compared to those of Catholic and Protestant faith. They also found out that relative to Catholics, Protestants and non-believers, those of Eastern Orthodox religion have less social capital and prefer old ideas and safe jobs. Orthodoxy is associated with leftleaning political preferences and stronger support for government involvement in the economy. At the same time, compared to Orthodox adherents, Catholics and Protestants are less likely to agree that government ownership is a good thing, and Protestants are less likely to agree that getting rich can only happen at the expense of others. They also claim that the reason why communism succeeded in Eastern Europe was because of the Orthodoxy. This video review explores the reasons for such claims.
Was Weber Wrong?
#orthodoxy #orthodox_church #sociology_of_religion #religious_studies #religiolog
Check out my other videos:
Religion's Sudden Decline by Ronald Inglehart - kzbin.info/www/bejne/qnPYfWdnbq-re9E
What is a French model of secularism? - kzbin.info/www/bejne/kHi2l4qfrpuDgpo
References:
Aghion P., Y. Algan, P. Cahuc, and A. Shleifer. “Regulation and distrust,” 2010.
Anderson John, Conservative Religious Politics in Russia and the United States: Dreaming of Christian Nations, Routledge. 2015.
Becker S. O. and L. Woessmann, “Was Weber wrong? A human capital theory of Protestant economic history,” The Quarterly Journal of Economics, 2009. pp. 531-596.
Berger Peter L. Orthodoxy and global pluralism. Demokratizatsiya. 2005. Vol. 13
Bruce Steve, The supply-side model of religion: The Nordic and Baltic states.
Buss Andreas, The Economic Ethics of Russian-Orthodox Christianity.
Campante, F. and D. Yanagizawa-Drott, “Does Religion Affect Economic Growth and Happiness? Evidence from Ramadan,” Quarterly Journal of Economics, 2015. 130, pp. 615-658.
Casanova Jose, Public Religions in the Modern World, University of Chicago Press. 1994.
Djankov S., E. Nikolova, and J. Zilinsky, “The happiness gap in Eastern Europe,” Journal of Comparative Economics, 2016. 44, pp. 108-124.
Djankov Simeon and Nikolova Elena. Communism as the Unhappy Coming, Policy Research Working Paper 8399. 2018.
Huntington Samuel, “The Clash of Civilizations”
Knox Zoe, Russian Society and the Orthodox Church: Religion in Russia after Communism, 2004.
Marsh Christopher, ed. Burden or blessing? Russian Orthodoxy and the construction of civil society and democracy. Institute on Culture, Religion and World Affairs. Boston University. 2004.
Norris Pippa and Ronald Inglehart, Sacred and Secular: 2004.
Payne D. The clash of civilizations: the Church of Greece, the European Union and the question of human rights. Religion, State and Society 2003. 31,3, pp. 261-271
Pew Research Center, May 10, 2017, “Religious Belief and National Belonging in Central and Eastern Europe”
Philpott Daniel, “The Catholic Wave,” Journal of Democracy 2004. 15, no. 2, pp. 32-46.
Radu Michael, “The Burden of Eastern Orthodoxy,” Orbis 1998 (Spring). 42, 2: pp. 283-300.
Ringvee Ringo, “State, Religion, and the Legal Framework in Estonia,” Religion, State & Society 2008. 36, no. 2: pp. 181-96.
Sarkissian Ani, Religious Reestablishmentin Post-Communist Polities, Journal of Church and State 2009. vol. 51 no. 3, pp. 472- 501.
Sitnikov A. V., The influence of Orthodoxy on the institutions of power and civil society in modern Russia. PhD dissertation: 09.00.14; [Place of defense: "Bashkir Academy of Public Administration and Management under the President of the Republic of Bashkortostan"] .- Ufa. 2012. 319 p. \ Ситников А. В. Православие, институты власти и гражданского общества в России. Алетейя.2012.
Stark Rodney and Smith, Buster, Conversion to Latin American Protestantism and the Case for Religious Motivation. Interdisciplinary Journal of Research on Religion. 2010. Volume 6, Article 7.
Voicu Ovidiu, Jennifer Cash, Victoria Cojocariu. Church and State in the Republic of Moldova. The Soros Foundation Moldova, 2017.
Weber Max, The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism.
Zabaev Ivan, The Economic Ethics of Contemporary Russian Orthodox Christianity: A Weberian Perspective, Journal of Economic Sociology. 2015. Vol. 16. No 4.

[@religiologEng]

Thank you for you Likes, comments, and support! Check out my other videos: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aaa9opyhe76WZtU Please, support Religiolog through a one-time donation: www.paypal.com/paypalme/religiolog Or become my Patron: www.patreon.com/4religiolog Religion's Sudden Decline by Ronald Inglehart - kzbin.info/www/bejne/qnPYfWdnbq-re9E

[@SeanWinters]

I know I've commented already, but I just want to make sure that you see this. American Protestant and I am very interested in continuing this discussion with you. One thing that you mentioned was the protestants idea of predestination, which is not universally Protestant. In fact, the majority of protestants are not Calvinists, we don't believe in predestination. I think you would be great to have a conversation with you on the ideas of the social differences between the 3 branches of Christianity.

[@Arez972]

Brother can you please send me the link to the Russian version

[@alexander3845]

Another great video! Thanks for spreading knowledge! ✨

[@religiologEng]

Glad you enjoyed it, Alex!

[@romazone101]

Wow! I'm so glad I subscribed. We cannot overlook the role that religions and culture have played in defining society and you explain this quite well. I especially like seeing theists arguing in the comment section.

[@religiologEng]

thanks, glad you found it interesting.

[@religiologEng]

I recommend you watch my series on religion in the USSR. it has 3 parts

[@Michael_the_Drunkard]

This is braindead

[@cwpv2477]

western church triggered the crusades, is centralised and has a leading figure never to be questioned. orthodox church is full of saints that rebelled against authorities. and orthodox church was founded in byzantine prior to any democracies or even complex empires in the west of europe after the fall of west rome

[@0utc4st1985]

There's a couple of issues I can see with this premise. For clarity I'll just list them out. 1.) There is no tradition of blind obedience to authority in Orthodoxy, which is radically different from the Roman Catholics. There were many cases of the laity rising up against the leadership of the church, most spectacularly when most of the church leadership voted to rejoin the Roman Catholics. But the context is always when the church leadership failed to adhere to Orthodox tradition. 2.) The tendency towards autocracy has a lot more to do with history than anything else. In the Balkans today the Orthodox countries were able to make a successful transition away from Communism and are now democracies. Clearly this isn't a uniform tendency. It's true Russia has about half the Orthodox Christians in the world, but given the disaster their experiment with democracy was in the 90s I can't say I blame their skepticism.

[@religiologEng]

Thank you for expressing this thoughtful opinion.

[@cwpv2477]

yes, plus western church triggered the crusades, is centralised and has a leading figure never to be questioned. while eastern rome was flourishing and had the original texts etc. orthodox church is full of saints that rebelled against authorities. and orthodox church was founded in byzantine prior to any democracies or even complex empires in the west of europe after the fall of west rome

[@ericwelvaert4780]

A very interesting hypothesis. Thank you for sharing it. I just discovered your channel and I think I am going to enjoy it.

[@religiologEng]

Glad you enjoy it! Have fun, there are many interesting videos here. For example, history of atheism in the USSR

[@halleborelli1108]

I've never thought of it, but this is an interesting thing to study. Hope you do more videos of this kind

[@religiologEng]

thank you! I hope you pressed the bell button to be notified :)

[@bj.bruner]

I'm American and I picked the grass with the cow 😅😅

[@religiologEng]

great! Thanks for sharing! :)

[@trleith]

I did too, probably because I've raised both.

[@NoOne-ix7dg]

​@@trleith Although, I'm not American.

[@cydra_infinity1423]

Same. I literally had a job feeding cows so I’m part of farm culture.

[@mrk4022]

странно, что я никогда не попадал на твой русскоязычный канал и попал сюда от Viced Rhino, на которого подписан уже много лет. Подписался, буду смотреть. Интересно. Спасибо.

[@religiologEng]

Как же не попадал? ты вроде комментировал мои русскоязычные ролики многократно, или я ошибаюсь?

[@mrk4022]

@@religiologEng а какой канал? Я кроме Алексея Козлова русскоязычных атеистов не помню... Ну и Лидина, но атеист ли он все еще? ))) А Козлов у меня в Патреоне.

[@mrk4022]

@@religiologEng "Религия и Общество?" Нет, я не помню такого канала, обязательно зайду и подпишусь. Мне очень понравилось качество аргументации в том, что я уже увидел. Так что мои комменты будут обязательно ))

[@religiolog]

@@mrk4022 спасибо! Буду ждать!

[@religiolog]

@@mrk4022 здорово, буду ждать и в своих патреонах а то у меня за 4 года работы их только двое :)

[@JimmyThaJam]

Thank you for putting this together! It was fascinating seeing the Eastern perspective on this topic and I appreciate you including your references in the bio. One book i would recommend on Protestantism and its broader cultural influence on the West is "Christianity's Dangerous Idea" by Alister McGrath. Aside from historical and theological accounts, it also demonstrates how the spread of Protestantism contributed to the cultural and economic changes in the nations where it was embraced.

[@religiologEng]

thank you for the recommendation. I know the author. I also hope you would check out some of my other videos.

[@valinorean4816]

@@religiologEng Hi! What do you think of the "Nature"-praised counterapologetic "The Gospel of Afranius"? (I have tested it on a couple of apologists and they don't know what to say!)

[@TheMya1988]

Very informative video, and though I have not studied as extensively as you have, and have lived in many US states, I agree that the Bible Belt (religious areas), are where the US economy mostly struggles, despite many of their mega churches' wealth. It is quite unsettling to think it could be far worse. On a side note, I find your accent and voice very calming, along with the breathtaking video footage❣ I shall and look forward to watching more of your videos.

[@religiologEng]

thank you so much for this comment and for the encouragement! Best

[@corehazard1719]

Very interesting vid. One similar yet very different thing differences between Tsarist Russia vs. the USSR is that both relied on a heavily centralized government & gave workers highly limited rights and poorer conditions than Western nations. In the USSR Lenin was worshipped instead of Jesus. For the majority of workers, there was a strong amount of overlap between feudalism and collectivization.

[@religiologEng]

thank you for sharing these thoughts here!

[@Dabordi]

Sent over by Viced Rhino. Hard to choose (as someone born in Kharkiv and living my whole life in New York) which language to listen in, but I went for English because that's also what I can read/type decently and not just listen to. This is really interesting stuff! As someone with a very inconsistent glimpse at Eastern culture - I can extrapolate a lot from seeing how my atheistic parents raised me to see what was cultural and not religious, but on the flip side, I didn't really get any first-hand experience as someone whose family comes from a Ukrainian Jewish background. Orthodox Christianity was always just something that exists off on the side in history books. I'll probably be watching a fair amount of this channel and recommend it to my girlfriend at least (who I met in the youtube skeptic community, indirectly thanks to Logicked). What your videos lack in the amusing pithiness of your standard religious debunk channel, it makes up for in being a lot more educational and thought-provoking.

[@religiologEng]

Hi Dabor! Thank you so much for paying attention to my channel. And thank you SO much for becoming my first Patron. I hope you'll really enjoy my future videos. I have big plans for this channel.

[@paulohagan3309]

I had heard about the Weberian thesis as regards Protestantism v Catholicism. However this is the first time I've seen Orthodoxy brought into the picture. Suspect things will get somewhat explosive in this comment section in the next few hours...😄😄

[@religiologEng]

thank you for sharing and for such optimism about the possible impact of my video :)

[@williandalsoto806]

Very interesting video, I learned about how people from different cultures think. Not sure if I have a formed opinion yet and I like that!

[@religiologEng]

Thanks for sharing!

[@trleith]

I've wondered lots of things along these lines. For example, I wondered how slavery could have been established in the so-called New World by Europeans when slavery had been all but entirely abolished in Europe centuries before. Before what? I asked myself. What happened in Europe? Was anyone in Europe arguing against this? I'm not really a scholar, but came to a tentative conclusion, challenged by the example of Brazil. Rodney Stark was a real scholar, and gave me a hint about Brazil that pretty much saved my line of thinking by filling in some details. See his Christianity Today article The Truth About the Catholic Church and Slavery for a preview. If we could bring back an old-fashioned term, we might keep sight of this: Political Economy. Lastly, it isn't wrong to say culture and religion are inseparable.

[@religiologEng]

thank you for sharing these interesting thoughts. Yes, I am familiar with works of Rodney Stark

[@lianborgiademedici1016]

This life is temporary and never compare sadness with the joy that is coming i hope orthodoxy will keep spreading because it is the truth church of Christ

[@romazone101]

First prove God then explain why your path to Him/Her is the correct one.

[@onionhat745]

Lol, Her

[@thelastgeneration1926]

Love you bro

[@rinasergeevna4169]

А этот ролик на русском есть?

[@religiologEng]

да, он один из самых первых на канале. называется - Почему православные страны отстают в развитии (сорри за качество и видео ряд)

[@nyurovski]

Is there still the Russian language version of this video? The one you published 4 years ago.

[@religiologEng]

yes, please check my channel in Russian - Религия и Общество - Religiolog - ролик называется "почему православные страны отсают в развитии"

[@ukyoize]

It's really interesting, but I am not sure how this couldbe really "proven".

[@religiologEng]

agree, it's hard

[@mrk4022]

*осторожно политика: сейчас такое время, что общность языка не значит почти ничего. Но на 6-й минуте видео становится понятно, что мы на одной стороне... хотя казалось бы этого стоило ожидать... в нормальном мире...

[@religiologEng]

спасибо за коммент

[@SeanWinters]

This is similar to whatifalthist arguments. Very interesting.

[@robert9016]

Whatifalthist treats world history like a paradox game due to only possessing surface level knowledge. he is not the person to emulate

[@SeanWinters]

@@robert9016 What exactly do you mean by "paradox game"? Also, he certainly doesn't have "surface level" knowledge on most topics he speaks of. From boomers, to dating, to history, he clearly has a deep knowledge on most things he speaks of(with the noteworthy exception of India, which is a genuinely strange culture anyways). I'm curious about your possible ulterior motives for not liking althist. Is it because he's slightly right leaning? Is it because he's a Quaker?

[@ukyoize]

wiah is an idiot

[@Arjmm]

​@@SeanWinterslol

[@cwpv2477]

found couple wrong facts in the first minutes alr pretty meh

[@cydra_infinity1423]

I think the nature of “competitive” denominations in Protestant countries allows for such freedoms to exist. In Catholicism and Orthodoxy the religion is set in stone so freedom isn’t as important. Protestant countries the religion is broken up into different denominations all competing to be the “true biblical interpretation” which is why freedom of religion was put such emphasis on in America so as to prevent violence between the sects.

[@brianengelson8020]

I’m American and oof! The west has fallen morally. 200 years of protestantism to get to the new Babylon.

[@littleantukins4415]

Better than having a bad work culture

[@Rai-Bulgaria]

That's because of the spread of marxism, which was aided and abetted by Russia, an Orthodox country.

[@dimitrioskalfakis]

sound analysis on the relation between communism and eastern orthodoxy as well as its failed inheritance from classical civilization and renaissance. i was told that being greek and orthodox are one and the same or inextricably linked which seems irrational. they were, of course, right in the sense that i chose neither; i was born greek and their judaic heresy was forced upon me a few months after birth. as a free thinking man i would have chosen differently but because religion has permeated and poisoned every facet of our society this disassociation is almost impossible. good work.

[@religiologEng]

Thank you for your feedback Dimitrii! A few months ago I've interviewed a Greek Orthodox priest that doesn't believe in god. I do it for my dissertation.

[@MrJMB122]

@@religiologEng How is even allow to be priest?

[@MrJMB122]

Question: How much do you know about your own faith? I converted to Eastern Orthodoxism as a philosophy student. I had to dig deep into the theology. It is by far one of the most beautiful. It has much more full meaning to one own humanity than I was studying at the time.

[@dimitrioskalfakis]

@@MrJMB122 i am sorry but as an adult i can not adopt ancient tribal israelite mythology as reality let alone the bitheistic heretic absurdity (pauline dogma) of the jewish zombie. a tale in a book is just another dark lord sauron or 'he who must not be named' in another book. primitive nonsense for the ignorant and fearful people of mesopotamia. standing apes should aspire to more than nonsense.

[@dionisiodussart5629]

Once the USD is toilet paper, we'll get an answer to this question.

[@ofmonadsandnomads9500]

Western convert to Orthodoxy (so have been most of my priests as well) here: we combine the traditionalism and mysticism with the rational inquiry pretty elegantly. It doesn’t have to be a conflict

[@silasbishop3055]

I would think that the real reasons are (Geography, History & Politics). The Orthodox East is generally isolated from international trade. The Eastern Orthodox lived under Islam & Communism. Even East Germany has a poorer economic standing than the rest of Germany. Modern Orthodox states tend to be more authoritarian and corrupt.

[@religiologEng]

thanks for sharing your thoughts

[@cwpv2477]

unrelated, the reasons are much simpler

[@SeanWinters]

18:20 you mentioned the idea of predestination, but most do not believe in predestination. Wild idea of predestination was important for early America, for instance, that idea got swallowed up and consumed relatively quickly. Most protestants around the world believe in free will, but the important thing that came from Calvinism which all protestants took was the idea that salvation cannot be burned. We cannot work for our salvation, and it is a free gift from God, and the only thing that we can do is to believe. I hope this makes sense, but it's important to realize that most protestants don't agree with Calvinism. Interested, that we are. It's the idea that we have free will to choose whether to follow God or not, however, that God could force someone to believe that he really wanted to. This term was coined by dr. Leighton flowers, who has focused his ministry on combating the idea of predestination and Calvinism. You might not be interested, but I would love to have a continued discussion on protestantism and the possible theological differences which may have caused Protestant Nations to be more successful. I always been interested in this concept and I'm curious what someone from another nation might think.

[@religiologEng]

thanks for sharing all this. Yes, predestination isn't really popular now. I hope you also would some of my other videos.

[@SeanWinters]

@@Me-yq1fl Salvation is through grace by faith, and not by works. Romans 3, Paul talks about how he is saved, just like moses, by the law of faith, not by tye law of works. None of us can earn our salvation, "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God". So what does James mean when he says faith without works is dead? It seems that this is more anti-gnostic talk. It's preaching against those who simply say "I believe" but have mo transformation. It goes back to the fruits, "you shall know them by their fruits". A person who doesn't act Christian, who has no works, is probably not saved. But you have it backwards. We aren't saved because of our works, we have our works BECAUSE we have already been saved. Salvation transforms you into a new creation. So no, it isn't a free pass to do whatever we want, but instead, those who are saved will be transformed and WANT to have a lively walk with Christ, doing the right things.

[@SeanWinters]

@@religiologEng Thank you brother, I absolutely will!

[@religiologEng]

@@Me-yq1fl the Bible is dubious on the subject of predestination. You may find there quotes that would strongly support it or vice versa

[@cwpv2477]

its the pop size

[@Potatoes85858]

I'm not sure I 100% agree that churches and monasteries weren't rich in Eastern Europe. I only know the example of my own country, Romania, but in the 19th century, for example, their wealth and lands were "secularised" -- nationalised by the state -- they had almost 1/4 of all land in the principality, forests and a lot of other possessions as well. This does agree with your point that the state was somewhat in control of them, though -- although the relationship was back and forth, with many rulers being very favourable to the church, donating vast amounts of lands etc. Even today the Romanian church is a very rich institution with a lot of social and even political influence, which of course doesn't help with our development and social progress.

[@religiologEng]

Buna ziua! Thank you for the comment. Multumesc mult!

[@Michael_the_Drunkard]

Social progress towards cultural and demographic decay

[@Melons-vg8dq]

They were overrun by Mongols, Tartars and Ottomans. They were also attacked by other European powers.

[@religiologEng]

yes, it might be partial reason, but who didn't suffer wars and enemy invasions?

[@ayeeniko]

Let me save you some time. What orthodox countries lack in monetary riches, they make up for in riches of spiritual grace. Blessed are those who are poor, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

[@religiologEng]

I see, what you mean. Therefore, I made that short remark at the end of the video. Success could be measured differently, and yet... I am from there and see obvious shortcomings.

[@lianborgiademedici1016]

@@religiologEng I mean c’mon you can’t compare orthodoxy to other christian denominations we are the true church of Christ☦️❤️‍🔥

[@religiologEng]

@@lianborgiademedici1016 how can we know it? is there a verifiable method to figure this out? If its your faith then its fine.

[@lianborgiademedici1016]

@@religiologEng there are a lot of converts from other christian denominations to orthodoxy we keept our tradition for 2000 years unlike those new denominations and it says in the bible when you are with god the path to him will be harder in this world because we do not belong to this world we belong to him…and those protestants and catholics reformed their religion to benefit it’s economy

[@romazone101]

@@lianborgiademedici1016 Before declaring without reason and for no good reason that your faith is true, start by convincing me that God even exists.

[@jadenalmeida8592]

Aren't jews and hindus quite financially prosperous in European countries

[@religiologEng]

yes, they are

[@jadenalmeida8592]

​@@religiologEngwhat is the belief they hold that makes them rich.

[@Sergio1Rodrigues]

Please don't go whatifalthist...

[@religiologEng]

Hi Sergio, what exactly do you mean?

[@eagercadet4059]

Whatifalthist is a so called "historian" who has a few videos done on him by other people who showcase that he isn't actually educated on the topics he discusses and how he is spreading misinformation