How Sauron Rebuilt His Army After the Fall of Morgoth

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Sauron was rightfully feared. He was wiser than His former Master and Middle earth felt His wrath and ambition For a LONG time

[@TonyCash90]

@@danielsantiagourtado3430 I’ve always agreed with this. If you look deeper into the lore of 1A Sauron was immensely more effective than the Balrogs and even Glaurung.

[@dehazetluanga9943]

I don't think that is the case, morgoth was also wise, it just so happened that his magical power was so great it triumphed over his power for wisdom, think of all the powerful beings that met their end trying to take him down, had they not been and were still alive no amount of wisdom and scheming would allow for sauron to become as powerful as he became because the moment he showed his hands there would have been countless heroes and beasts who had the power and capabilities to destroy or defeat him without too much trouble. Because in the world of middle-earth, sheer power and strength trumps everything, not wisdom or cunning or schemes of the so called dark lord (mini dark lord sauron)

[@dehazetluanga9943]

​@@TonyCash90he was effective simply because there was no one strong enough to stop him, and why is that so??? Because most of them died fighting the balrogs and glaurung...so they were pretty much very veery effective

[@mr.simonphoenix7181]

Not sure how you came to this conclusion. Morgoth succeeded where Sauron failed, in the end it took the Valar to unseat him. Sauron was undone by a couple of hobbits.

[@Furb8652011]

Totally agree! I’ve always said out of all villains in any book or movie, Sauron was most strategic and most feared 💯

[@lisboah]

Can't we all admit that the Valar suck at cleaning up the messes they allowed to occur in the first place? Both times they went to imprison Morgoth, they forgot to deal with the latter's servants and the Peoples of Middle-Earth had to suffer through the ages.

[@kieranpriest9609]

I was thinking about that earlier. Morgoth killed the two trees and ran off. The Valars’ response? “Guess we can’t find him!”

[@user-bz9of6tn6l]

There's a reason the Valar don't involve themselves directly all that often. Even if it was for benevolent purposes, people would see them as overbearing parents if they kept interfering for the sake of following Eru's will. And that's at best. At worst, people would see them as tyrants constantly seeking to keep them under their control, no different from Morgoth or Sauron. That, and also the fact that in the War of Wrath, when the Valar got involved, Beleriand sunk into the sea. And that was simply to stop Morgoth himself. Now imagine them scouring the world looking for his servants. Their sheer power could break all of the world in their attempt to cleanse it of Morgoth's forces.

[@lisboah]

@@user-bz9of6tn6l The problem is that when they decide to intervene, things are already bleak and they don't completely deal with the situation. In the first war against the Melkor, they were content in arresting him, and completely forgot about Sauron, the Balrogs, the orcs, etc *for three ages*

[@Alex-s-m2p]

It's because Manwe, Melkor's brother, did not understand the concept of Evil at that point. He thought Melkor could be redeemed. He actually thought Melkor was remorseful of his crimes. Aule was the same way. They both much later on realized that Evil can not change.

[@blackflagsnroses6013]

I won’t lie for the longest I though the Valar did less good than given credit

[@luiswohlrab4847]

In defeat, Morgoth surrendered and asked for parley, while Sauron fought his enemies until his last breath.💪🏻

[@Silver-505]

Very true, Morgoth begged for pardon from the Valar, whilst Sauron, even when the ring was destroyed, his final act was one of defiance.

[@dehazetluanga9943]

Because he ran out of options, no matter what happened he was done, it was the end, even if he survived he had lost too much to rebuild anything, while morgoth still had the capability to rebuild his forces and bide his time to once again become powerful so surrendering was the best option, sauron didn't have that choice, if he DID, then based on what we know of his personality he would have absolutely begged for mercy in order to fight another day

[@Saeronor]

Yeah, like when he asked for clemency after War of Wrath only to run away. Or like when he asked for parley when Ar-Farazon paid him a visit. Last breath, lol...

[@AbstractDigitalDNB]

You do realise the difference in power between their foes yea ? Fingolfin would have ruined Sauron one on one ! Sauron lost and faced no Noldor or Vallar ?

[@darrellwinters3202]

@@luiswohlrab4847 did he he begged Eonwe for forgiveness at the end of the war of wrath 🤷🏿‍♂️🤷🏿‍♂️🤷🏿‍♂️

[@Vessel3791]

Sauron, Elendil and Gil-Galad all fell in their fight. Isildur just went up to Sauron’s mortally wounded body, cut the ring from his hand and took it as a form of compensation for the loss of his brother and father. Still a great video. I enjoyed it :)

[@claysecora8734]

Correct

[@arturleperoke3205]

That is your interpretation. For me it is far likelier that they assisted in duelling Sauron as we see here: ’Isildur took it [the Ring], as should not have been. It should have been cast then into Orodruin’s fire nigh at hand where it was made. But few marked what Isildur did. He alone stood by his father in that last mortal contest; and by Gil-galad only Círdan stood, and I. (Chapter: The Council of Elrond) Illogical to think they just stood, watched and waited for the outcome of the most important battle of the 2nd Age. And no, joining later or being onlookers does not count as "stood by ... in that last mortal contest"

[@Vessel3791]

@ I think you took me a little too literally there, which is fine. Can be difficult understanding how one’s words are really meant through text. I was focusing more on how the video was going with how the movie portrayed it; that Isildur cut the ring as Sauron was “reaching” for him

[@Vessel3791]

@@arturleperoke3205 I think you took my words too literally there. It can be difficult understanding what one’s words actually mean only through text. I was focusing on how the video was going more with the movie’s depiction of Isildur taking the ring, that he cut it off while Sauron was “reaching” for him, instead of it being him taking after Sauron was laying on the ground defeated. Cheers!

[@arturleperoke3205]

@@Vessel3791 true! thanks for clarifying and cheers to you too

[@eddiecarpenter4588]

Nothing like watching a new vid while relaxing in my chair with pipe in hand, packed with my favorite strain of 'long leaf'. 😉

[@shaneharper6851]

A fellow crack smoker. Respect.

[@jamie9680]

@@shaneharper6851 taken as intended, funny as F! respect bro

[@patrickb1303]

That’s awesome. Which state/City are you in? - Not the DEA.

[@umadbroimatroll7918]

​@@patrickb1303 Oh Canada! Our home and high land.

[@balabanasireti]

Cringe

[@jonbaxter2254]

Honestly, the logistical and organisational feat to do this cannot be undersold, and I think Sauron would be a great middle manager some day.

[@arturleperoke3205]

if you knew how important organization is to warfare.. battles are often won by logistics

[@matheusrondelleite8015]

Watching this while playing Divide and Conquer Version 5 for medieval II is amazing

[@Wolfeson28]

Mae govanen, mellon! I miss the old days of Arachir.

[@zackc3767]

I've really gotten hooked on DAC5 and various youtubers streaming it lately.

[@VictorIV0310]

Sauron taking the initiative!

[@christophergirardi8145]

Something I found interesting is, as the Ages progressed, the Valar chose to have fewer and fewer interactions with the People of Middle-Earth. Two-thirds of the way through the 2nd Age, the world was bent and the valar cut all communication and by the 3rd Age they sent only disguised advisors and vague signs. The equivalant of angels in continued distancing themselves from the people who needed them while the devil and his demons might not always be present but were always in the back of their minds growing fear. That I think is the failure of the Valar, they allowed the people to forget about angels while demons were around every corner.

[@bigsarge2085]

Awesome, thanks for the deep dive!

[@theawesomeman9821]

Sauron's ruthless and powerful but he ain't got anything against plot armor.

[@waltonsmith7210]

Thats Illuvatar.

[@TonyCash90]

Favorite channel on YT

[@ArtimusFlashGordon]

Do you guys think you could do a series of the future War of the Terminator?

[@iainmc9859]

Dark Satanic Mills

[@thestanleys3657]

Didn't your parents give you thr birds and the bees talk😂😂 When a daddy orc & a mommy orc love eachother very much a stork delivers a baby orc x millions

[@fredericklockard3854]

You’d think after so many huge defeats the orcs would be like, no dude we’re done with you 😂

[@ilejovcevski79]

It's always arguable how much Sauron repented and how much was he just afraid of the Wrath of the West at the start of the 2nd Age... Lots of disputable decisions went into making of this video, some regarding the chronology, some the course and outcomes of certain events, and some on the topic of exact motivations and properties of entities of people, but the last one is really misdirecting.... Gil-Galad and Elendil did fall in battle with Sauron yes, but it would seem that they took Sauron with them, or at least weakened him so much that Isildur could cut off the ring from Sauron's hand with the broken hilt of Narsil.

[@Canario_27]

Sauron was doom to fail. His plans require the virtue of patience, but Sauron is incapable of cultivating virtue

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Love your content guys! Thanks For this ❤❤❤

[@megiski3116]

10:55 the wizards arrived in the 3rd age, not the 2nd

[@anni.68]

The Blue Wizards arrived in the Second Age and Olorin/Gandalf had been in Middle-earth at least twice before he came to the Grey Havens in the Third Age. During the Years of the Trees he was one of The Guardians of the Elves in Cuivienen and he came again the First or Second Age and went "deep into Middle-earth" (Rhun and maybe South/Harad too). If he put on the appearance (and behaviour) of a wizard during this visit or if he chose a different Fana/appearance is not known.

[@davidreynolds1604]

Elder scrolls! Elder scrolls next please!

[@perseas2294]

You should start making some videos about the Kingkiller chronicles. It has a huge fanbase

[@joeperez3520]

Was there any mention of the One Ring while Sauron was in Numenor? Did the Numenorians not know what it was and simply allowed Sauron to keep it as it was just a "personal item?" When Sauron was also "killed" in the destruction of Numenor, if he was no longer able to take on any form, how did the One Ring get back to Mordor with him if he in fact had it with him?

[@arturleperoke3205]

that is one of the maaaaany plotholes of the Silmarillion, but hard-core-fanatics will tell you otherwise and come up with the most bullshit answers as excuses

[@For.Reza.Shah-II]

11:04 How do you know name of the Blue Wizards? I thought Tolkien never named them.

[@rtyrsson]

I just commented on that too. The only name mention of the last two Istari was "Pallondo," but it wasn't clear if it was one of them, or they were twins and it was their joint name. However, I do have the entirety of the 12 book series "The History of Middle Earth," edited by Christopher Tolkien, but haven't had near the chance to read it all. They may have been mentioned in there somewhere.

[@zoyo8903]

I've seen the mention of those names for the blue wizards before, though for the life of me I cannot remember where. Their names are their Maiar names, not the names they went by as the blue wizards tho, iirc

[@anni.68]

Their names were Morinehtar ("Darkness-slayer", likely based on the Quenya words mori- ("darkness") and nehtar ("slayer") and Rómestámo or Róme(n)star, a Quenya name meaning "East-helper". In earlier writings they were named Alatar and Pallando.

[@TheRavenLord1]

Praise unto Lord Morgoth and Sauron

[@henrikg1388]

Some small inaccuracies. 1. Morgoth was never "executed". 2. Sauron thought he could face the army of Ar-Pharazon, but his own troops abandoned him in terror in face of the Numenoreans. That's when he devised a new plan of infiltration. I wasn't planned in advance. 3. Sauron was physically defeated when Isildur cut the ring from his hand. You are presenting the movie version.

[@arturleperoke3205]

regarding the 3rd point. That is your interpretation. For me it is far likelier that they assisted in duelling Sauron as we see here: ’Isildur took it [the Ring], as should not have been. It should have been cast then into Orodruin’s fire nigh at hand where it was made. But few marked what Isildur did. He alone stood by his father in that last mortal contest; and by Gil-galad only Círdan stood, and I. (Chapter: The Council of Elrond) Illogical to think they just stood, watched and waited for the outcome of the most important battle of the 2nd Age. And no, joining later or being onlookers does not count as "stood by ... in that last mortal contest"

[@henrikg1388]

@@arturleperoke3205 What if you had read a few sentences before that quote: "I beheld the last combat on the slopes of Orodruin, where Gil-galad died, and Elendil fell, and Narsil broke beneath him; *_but Sauron himself was overthrown,_* and Isildur cut the Ring from his hand with the hilt-shard of his father's sword, and took it for his own.' Or read from Letter 131 if you wish: "Gilgalad and Elendil are slain in the act of *_slaying_* Sauron. Isildur, Elendil’s son, cuts the ring from Sauron’s hand" So no, it is not my interpretation. It is the only reasonable interpretation.

[@arturleperoke3205]

@@henrikg1388 There is no contradiction with either of those quotes: in the fight 5 vs 1, three combatants are slain. I do not see any "those 3 standing by their kings were mere onlookers" in any quote. taking some evidence into account but rejecting opposing evidence is very unscientific.. so yes, it is a matter of interpretation

[@henrikg1388]

@@arturleperoke3205 You want to add two (three with Elrond) characters into the fight, just because you think it is "likely". It is far more likely that they were just there. That is all that it says. I think you are missing the point. The most important battle of the 2nd age was fought between Sauron and the two high-kings of men and elves. It was certainly not a 5v1 or a 6v1 fight. We're not talking about a scene from Baldur's Gate 3. It is the mythical showdown that ended the 2nd Age. A "boss fight", if you will. Isildur picks up the sword after the fight was over. He takes his father's sword. That is precisely what the full text says.

[@waltonsmith7210]

In one of his letters Tolkien writez that Morgoth was physically executed. I think.

[@Silver-505]

Sauron is the greatest villian of all-time.

[@rtyrsson]

The two wizards in the east that are briefly mentioned... those are names I've not heard before. Other than Gandalf, Saruman, and Radagast, there were two others of the Istari, but the only name I recall in reference to either of them was Pallando. Is this something in one of the 12 volumes of the History? I own them but have not had the time to read them all.

[@mainalpha]

They are the Blue Wizards, but all five didn't arrive in Middle Earth till the year 1000 of the Third Age, not the Second Age

[@EndofTimeGaming-m9s]

@@mainalpha that is not what he is asking....

[@adolfo777nica]

​@@EndofTimeGaming-m9sYou are sassy, how cute

[@EndofTimeGaming-m9s]

@ at least I know how to read... sassy or not

[@anni.68]

@@mainalpha The two Blue Wizards arrived in the Second Age. "Their (the Blue Wizard's) task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir up rebellion ... and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause [?dissension and disarray] among the dark East ... They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of East ... who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have ... outnumbered the West. (J.R.R. Tolkien, "Last Writings", The Peoples of Middle-earth

[@marschallhistory3286]

I don't think forging the one ring was a mistake. Because your representation of the function of the one ring is not entirely true to Lor. Because in the lore a Maya or Valar loses some of his power every time he dies and then has to regenerate. But according to Tolkien, it was precisely the fact that Sauron had tied up much of his power in the one ring that caused this. Because it didn't continue to dwindle as soon as he lost a body. That was the main reason Sauron forged the One Ring in the first place.

[@richgray8925]

Sauron didn't defeat Gil-Galad and Elendil, they won at a cost of their lives, then Isildur cut the Ring off as a trophy.

[@Savior-ml4pq]

Remember y’all it’s Tolkien not token!

[@iainmc9859]

I hate to point this out ... but you are mispronouncing Sauron throughout. It is pronounced SAWron, as in dinoSaw. Listen to the 1964 interwiew with Tolkien at about 33:30 where he is being asked about power being in high places. 'Morgoth and his lieutenant SAWron ...'

[@AuthorTomWood]

Mind. Blown. I grew up thinking it was SAWron only for the movies to convince me it was SOWron. What might this mean for other pronunciations in the legendarium?! I need to seek out more interviews...

[@iainmc9859]

@AuthorTomWood The jury's out on Fro do or Frow do ... I need to check this with Tolkien interviews. The name's origin isn't linguistically clear, either old Norse or old Frankish seems to be most likely ... but as we don't really know how to pronounce either language it doesn't help.

[@GenghisVern]

7:10 Orc Host TOE

[@johnm9126]

So are there 6 elf rings 3 known by Sauron and 3 not known by Sauron.

[@collintrytsman3353]

outstanding

[@dudeboydudeboy-zj8kd]

hey w&w how about you do videos on the orcs : bad blood by stan nicholls. it is quite a good book series

[@anthonybird546]

They use curved swords. Curved. Swords.

[@franjo9056]

Dude won like 3 battles in 5 days during the Eregion war

[@tengkualiff]

Damn the blue wizards were basically alpharius and omegon 😂

[@agilesamus]

He promised to lower grocery prices and end the war out east in a single day if elected leader.

[@paulagraphr]

AI voice right?

[@WizardsandWarriors]

No

[@jgrey8959]

The Dorves

[@knh778]

Good guy Sauron created industry and jobs, and we keep hating him ☹️

[@darrellwinters3202]

Why didn’t the Valar send Eonwe,Tulkas and a few thousand noldor under Finarfin to kick Saurons ass 🤷🏿‍♂️🤷🏿‍♂️🤷🏿‍♂️👀👀

[@kieferkarpfen6897]

Because they are assholes.

[@slippyslipip]

They was to busy not fix the broken stuff

[@anni.68]

Because in the War of Wrath against Morgoth at the end of the First Age they accidentally destroyed all of Beleriand. The complete North-west of Middle-earth sank into the sea! To prevent that such a disaster would ever happen again the Valar decided not to interfere again. The Valar and Maiar were so powerful that every time they went to war they created a complete mess and changed the surface of the planet. Before the awakening of Men, Elves and Dwarves that was not such a huge problem, but after their awakening and after what happened to Beleriand the Valar feared that they could accidentally harm the Children of Iluvatar/God if they went to war against Sauron.

[@kieferkarpfen6897]

@@anni.68 the valar did not fought in the war of wrath.

[@anni.68]

@kieferkarpfen6897 Well, then you have to blame poor Eonwe for the destruction of Beleriand :) Ancalagon only destroyed Thangorodrim.

[@williamyoung9401]

Not promoting the BetterHelp scam this time? 🤑

[@skakofilsanonims4434]

The title doesn't even have sense. It was not His army, but Morgoth's one . And you don't have to write each word starting with capital letters, do you live in a caravan camping?

[@MythologicalStories-q1z]

If Tolkien’s world was so deeply influenced by mythology and history, could the glorification of Elven and Numenórean armies be seen as a reflection of real-world elitism and imperialism? Were these "noble" races truly heroes, or did they impose their will on Middle-earth much like historical empires did in our world?

[@razorbird789]

Inspired by for sure but the Elves and Numenorians created an enlightened culture which stands as a contrast to wild orcs or nomadic/low tech Easterlings. Such was the real world too. Wakanda is fantasy, the European empires stopped or combated barbarism such as Cannibalism, slavery, genital mutilation, and a nasty habit of burning widows with their dead husbands. As guilty as they are for other bad things, the places they conquered were worse in many regards. I'll stick with the Elves/Numenor/Europe thanks but will allow an honourable exemption to Japan. Not Korea though, the longest living slave state in the world.

[@MythologicalStories-q1z]

@@razorbird789 History is far more complex than simply "civilized" vs. "barbaric." While European empires did combat certain harmful practices, they also imposed slavery, exploitation, and cultural destruction. Similarly, labeling Korea as a "slave state" ignores its rich history and contributions. Tolkien’s fantasy reflects myth, not real-world history, and drawing direct comparisons oversimplifies both. A balanced view recognizes both the good and the harm in any civilization.

[@Cerylion]

Tolkien was idealistic and escapist in his writings, so yes elves of 2nd and 3rd ages are meant to be seen as good. He actually hated it when people tried to find political allegories in his works (though he had some, mostly for anti-industrialization and warmongering).

[@MythologicalStories-q1z]

@@Cerylion Tolkien focused on mythology and nature, not politics. His Elves reflect his idealism, and his subtle critiques, like anti-industrial themes, enrich the story without taking away from the fantasy

[@Batuhanify]

Well, he criticises Imperialism through Numenor. Where as Numenor of old traded with the lesser men of Middle-Earth, and thought them crafts and lore, Numenoreans in the latter years of the Island Kingdom, the so-called Kings Men, preferred to enslave the lesser men and rule over them as kings. As for the Elves, they have their bad apples as well. Sons of Feanor, and especially Feanor himself were guilty of many crimes. And we do see Elves turning evil through coveting. Be it a person they love, or riches But Elves in general thought Edain a lot, and in return learned from them. If they were Elitist, they wouldn't be fascinated by Man, and invite Man to live in their Kingdoms. The time where they are faced with Gift of Man(Death), they weep and remain in sorrow. I don't see this as elitism. The so called Lesser-Men are also not entirely evil, a tribe of mountain men guide Theoden through mountain passes on the way to Minas Tirith for example. Yet those who are enslaved by Sauron are ruled by fear. Dwarves go down the same drain, whilst early dwarves were happy to trade with Elves and Men, the Dwarves of 3rd Age were much reduced due to their own greed, especially because of the seven rings, which increased the hoards of gold of the Dwarves but also made them especially greedy... And those large hoards drew in Dragons. Hobbits are considered the most virtuous of Tolkiens races, because they live a simple and moral life. They are at peace with the greenland, they farm, they eat and they are merry. Sam, after the story, makes thirteen children... That's some merriment he had with his wife alright. So, in essence, Tolkien casts virtue and vice exactly how it should be shown. Many a character falls to the sin of pride, or vanity or greed, especially greed. Even Sauron himself is a critique to wanton Industrialisation and Imperialism of Tolkien's time, and the orcs are the creatures that such a world creates. Tolkien goes out of his way to show the Orcs as especially industrious, but their mind is focused on creating machines of war and torture. Edit: A stark example came to mind. Galadriel is a well known character. She remained on Middle-Earth after War of Wrath, because she wanted to rule in her own name, thinking she could better than what was on Valinor. She did try, and honestly, Lothlorien was a good kingdom in the end. But she clung to that pride and vanity. Once offered the Ring by Frodo, she turns it down, with great difficulty.. That is why she says "I shall go into the west and *diminish*, and remain Galadriel." in the end. She finally had the tool she could use to create her kingdom as she wished, but at the fateful hour, she knew humility, and was able to turn it down. How is that elitist or imperialistic I'd ask.

[@robbabcock_]

Terrific work! I really love this channel. 🙏⚔🔥🏹🧙🧝🏹🐉

[@romanianpatriot777]

Still waiting for that last year announced January 2025 Elder Scrolls Lore Races Of Tamriel Video 🥲🥲🥲🙏🏻 so my soul can finally find some peace as an huge Elder Scrolls Nerd