How SMALL Bike Brands Survive in 2023

Podcast with Igor from Velo-Orange talking about how their strategies are different from larger bike brands. Check VO out at: velo-orange.com/
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[@daniellarson3068]

I think you've got a winner with this interview thing. It helps your channel and helps introduce bicycle manufacturers to the world. I'm not in need of a new bike, but I liked the attitude of your guest. If I did need one, I'd consider his bikes. He is building a practical bike to meet the needs of the customer. I'm in the Midwest and would like to suggest that you interview Detroit Bikes and Bearclaw bikes. I know you've had a Bearclaw so your personal experience would help with the interview. I think both of these bikes have stories that will be of interest to your viewers.

[@stephenringlee9739]

I have a ton of Velo-Orange components. They along with Rivendell and Jan Heine/Rene Herse add huge value for those of us who are outside the Bicycling Magazine ghetto.

[@donhuber9131]

Same here! I finally was able to get my fit dialed in thanks to V-O. As I've aged, the classic "Magazine ghetto" road bike setup no longer worked. The V-O seatpost and high-rise stem has allowed me to stay on a drop bar bike, and continue to ride long distance gravel rides comfortably.

[@davidsonvillain]

They certainly occupy an important niche in classic and utilitarian parts to keep old, but good bikes rolling!

[@danieldube8035]

Fully agree. The more I bike, the more I veer towards old-school bikes and bike tech, small custom plus Riv/VO/René Herse, etc. When you’re tens of miles out from town, vulnerable, you and the road, some stuff just works, works reliably, works comfortably/ergonomically, inexpensively, and is repairable on the road, easy maintenance at home. Bicycle Quarterly (René Herse) is where it’s at, not the carbon cheering/sales squad. (I do own a full carbon, etc., but…)

[@acbarnard]

Great interview! VO products are smart, beautiful, and reasonably priced, they’re doing a fantastic job.

[@felixjackson2670]

You and I are at different ends of the curve. I have ‘racer mentality’..never ride in baggy shorts or shirts..Am a Campy Record human-even on my 2x Gravel Bike. However we share a love of craftsmanship,seeking what works,love of small passion driven bike brands. Massive dislike of current Corporate Profit over People Big Bike brands. Love of cycling. Really enjoy your content and chosen path. Keep up the ‘sometimes’ battle. I hope you both have a blessed transition into your new beginning in Spain. Big challenge and wonderful adventure. Great thing to be doing and will open many new doors,often best ones totally unexpected and unplanned.

[@velo_orange]

That was so fun! Thanks Russ! -Igor

[@yyyyuno]

Thanks Igor.

[@davidsonvillain]

Great interview! I ❤ @velo_orange and my Polyvalent rando build! It's super comfortable, handles great, and carries all the stuff I need on long brevets. Igor and team are a joy to do business with. I miss frequenting their Annapolis location, but come to find out their new digs are across the street from my kids' school!

[@sagehiker]

Enjoy this content. Velo Orange is ideal of practical and value. No Crazy Bars aren't weird....they are the pinnacle of practical human engineering. My back and arms love them. Ebikes are in their bag phone phase and need major engineering with legal wrangling issues to be settled.

[@donhuber9131]

I bought one of their high-rise stems, and it has rejuvenated my long distance gravel riding.

[@walthaim]

/r/xbiking and VeloOrange hypeee!!! VO bits and pieces were key to finishing up my 80's Bianchi restomod.

[@stephenkohler3472]

People like you and Steve from Hardtail party, plus the gravel/adventure/bikepacking movement are giving small bike companies a ton of exposure lately. It's so awesome to see

[@Joeyfleshman757]

I’ve loved VO for years and getting to meet Igor at the HQ was a highlight. He helped me on my Riv Atlantis build saga and we talked about raising young kids. My only part request is to bring back version of the Rustines grip. I know they don’t make them any more and I love my Ouries but I miss that aesthetic on a drop bar.

[@WeAreBikeScouts]

Thank you so much for featuring stories like this. I can totally relate with what Igor said about how they would rather sponsor someone's trip/ride than pay for advertising. I actually come from an advertising background and the past few years I've seen how the customers of business have turned from being just a market to being communities around a specific activity that a brand or product enables or empowers. I think it's a good direction for businesses like Velo-Orange, which I wish they had a presence here in South East Asia (Philippines, specifically) where we're based and have been working as Volunteer Bicycle Messengers for disaster response for the past ten years. We're trying to generate more engagement with people in communities to grow local bicycle mobility adoption for transport and for resilience, and one of our big challenges is the absence of cycling brands or companies that we can work with in any way to support our work. More power to the podcast, will be watching regularly!

[@tayloroliver7293]

Been riding my trusty steel cantilever touring bike for the last decade. After recently moving to the city, I find myself in an increasing number of situations where emergency-grabbing two big handfuls of disc brake would have ended in disaster. Really cool to see these brands making "off-trend" decisions that push the needle back towards logic and longevity. Hope to see you at Made!

[@bindingcurve]

"emergency-grabbing two big handfuls of disc brake would have ended in disaster." 🤣🤣🤣🤣. The level of control you get with hydraulic disks is just awesome.

[@tayloroliver7293]

@@bindingcurve agreed! Sometimes a little TOO awesome 🙃

[@BuckleyJonathan-nr1wu]

I met Igor in France at the Anjou Velo Vintage a number of years ago. I was riding with a set of Crazy Bars on my tourer. He spotted them instantly and approached me. What a great guy. I was so star struck I had my wife take a photo of us together😄😄. Since then I have spent hundreds on their products especially handlebars.Trying to find a shop stocking their products is never easy in the UK.

[@velo_orange]

I remember you! I have fond memories of that trip, ride, and festival. Hope you're well! -Igor

[@pmb9944]

This was a great interview I was excited to watch because I own a VO Pass Hunter, love that bike and VO staff are very helpful.

[@paulmakesvideos]

Great interview. VO is a treasure. The description of the new Rando frame sounds very similar to the Soma Pescadero that I'm currently building -- wider 700c, rim brake only. Comparing the geo numbers, the VO looks like a slightly different different flavor. The stays on the Pescadero are a little shorter and the stack/reach is different. That said, I'm reassured for not being off-the-beam for wanting a wide tire rim brake bike in 2023.

[@andrew_yeah]

super grateful to hear that VO is working on a new rim brake frame. they're still perfectly suited for lots of riders in lots of conditions and it's nice to have new options. that being said, i think it's a little odd that a company that's been part of the resurgence in 650b to make a 700c-only bike (if I understood that comment correctly). I'm a taller rider, so 700c suits me fine, but there are so many compromises required to fit those big wheels in smaller frames. I hope you will reconsider and look at scaling the wheel size with frame size!

[@GMICHAELG62]

Thanks for the focus on small brands (Businesses). A lot of them in were destroyed during COVID. They used to be the Main backbone of the US. They definitely drive innovation and competition. Very refreshing!

[@seanfellers4835]

Love the team at Velo Orange. Also love my Pass Hunter!

[@velo_orange]

🧡

[@andrewamundsen1229]

The new Velo-Orange Rando bike is so gorgeous! (I Do Not need another bike, I do not need another bike...arrrgh!).

[@queercyclist]

I'm loving the podcast format! This was a great convo. Have you thought about putting them on Spotify or another app? I'd love to listen while I'm out on a long ride.

[@camt1818]

I would listen on spotify too! (Though I bet he makes better money on KZbin; so I get it!)

[@Oddity26]

If you pay for KZbin premium you can now listen to vids with your phone screen off. I got a taste of that feature during the trial period and it was so great! It's just not in the budget for now lol

[@bikenejad]

These interviews are the best content you're putting out, please keep making these videos! I've owned lots of VO gear, and it's all high quality, well engineered, and CLASSY! My Piolet has been a trusty steed, and I love their flat pack rack and rando bag! Speaking of that bag, I think you should try to get Brad and Ester from Roadrunner Bags on for an interview!

[@johnmartin8347]

It’s really cool to hear from Igor and finally put a face to the name. I work in a shop where we service a lot of performance bikes, but my coworkers s and I regularly drool over the bikes on the VO website. I love the way VO Klunker bars changed my 97 Rockhopper, and I’m now waiting for the new Piolet to come out so I can snag one for myself!

[@mf7513]

I discovered the Polyvalent through PLP and built my own (mostly with VO parts).

[@lelca]

I love these interviews, thanks for making them happen! I'm so glad that VO is releasing the Rando as a rim brake bike. It's basically everything I've wanted in a custom bike over the last five years. Also guilty of sitting on a pair of 7s XT thumbies. You never know when you'll need them, and they're small enough to store forever!! The 10s DA downtube shifters are in constant use though ;)

[@galenanderson6006]

Yup, there are VO Crazy Bars on my 1995 Stumpjumper. Makes it a fun around town and gravel roads bike.

[@slantedorbit]

You have refined your format beautifully. Good length, sensible edits, we can see your faces well, great content! I have a rimbrake wheelset sitting around that is very intrigued by the Rando. Also delighted to learn you’re moving to Spain. YOLO!

[@beauhart8808]

Thanks for that, Russ! Nice to see Igor doing his thing. He’s like the sensible optimist balancing out Grant’s curmudgeon tendencies.

[@edwardcromarty891]

Love my 2008 Marin and still ride it almost every day. Small companies can be creative, remember the first Marin titanium bikes and the first use of rear shocks? I recently saw a triple butted cromoly steel Marin from what looked like the 1990's.

[@CharlieMetcalf]

Their new Rando frameset is very nice. I prefer rim brakes on a road bike.

[@domestique3954]

👌Absolutely!

[@fraz3385]

Yay for VO! I love my Piolet. And I love that they make parts for older bikes too. There's not much representation in Australia beyond commuter cycles in Melbourne. I first spotted the Piolet on Instagram and it was everything I wanted. Room for chunky tyres, fairly relaxed geometry, lots of mounts for racks/mud guards bottles etc! I had to import it direct because Commuter cycles were out of stock (and I live interstate anyway). Keep up the good work Igor!

[@fraz3385]

PS. I also enjoyed it when Bennedict/Ultraromance went touring on the Piolet.

[@outdoorenthusiast5835]

RIP Waterford/Gunnar--😪. I do love Velo Orange though and am proud they are a Maryland brand.

[@nathanielmullen3]

Great podcast and so fun to hear from VO

[@bikenraider99]

Cool interview. I just stumbled across Velo-Orange this year in the hunt for parts for an old Schwinn Le Tour build. Digging the retro-groucho vibe and the practical approach to their business and products.

[@schwinnguy]

I have been using VO for years. Great stuff. Good interview, really enjoy the format and the guests.

[@mgrif737]

I don’t know if it is stiffness or what, but those ARE the best rim brakes I have ever used. I put off discs for a long time because of Gran Cru long reach brakes and still ride them more than anything else. Kudos to VO for a great design and I hope the new frame is doing well.

[@vongdong10]

It's actually wild how many small bike companies are out there

[@Ray.J]

One thing I think is sometimes overstated is the notion that all people are cheap and will buy the cheapest products. Low prices are great and all, but not if the quality isn't there. Maybe for the occasional cyclist it is good enough. But for those who ride regularly, we aren't opposed to spending a bit more for something that is going to perform better and more dependably. Also, there is the fact that some people want to buy from smaller companies and they can even develop an affection for them. I know a lot of people, for example, who used to love Goose Island beer, back when it was an independent brewer. When InBev (owner of Anheuser Busch) purchased them, they left like the place was on fire. They didn't want to support a beer behemoth. And so they looked for another independent brand to forge a relationship with. And that's what VO has done to a large degree, forge relationships with educated and passionate consumers. And they listen! Never forget to listen to your audience.

[@parapackco]

Thanks for sharing this conversation. It's funny, we just ordered some crazy bars for my partners bike on Monday! Also, as a smaller brand than VO we appreciate the insights.

[@unitedislife]

Totally love my Low Kicker. :) Carried one back after our recent trip to the US in Feb.

[@eric106071]

I ride a step through brilliant bike nearly every day. Love it!

[@robmartin1792]

What a great conversation. Such a pleasure to listen to and see you guys just vibing talking shop 👍🏼 VO ftw 👏🏼👏🏼

[@velo_orange]

🧡

[@sonalmalhotra07]

Lovely Channel. Great Work

[@blechnik]

i dont have a Neutrino, but it was the main inspiration for my own mini velo build. The Geometry is the same as a Neutrino Size L, but without sliding dropouts and an added Brompton Bag Mount in the front. It was a project that i started just for fun and because i liked the looks of a neutrino, but it became my main bike that i use every day, ether riding to the office, or taking my son in a front seat through town.

[@keithpollasky2414]

I bought a B-Road because of you guys and run 44 mm RH tires. We watched you sell all your bikes for a move to Spain which is a great move but you can still push small MTB companies that make AtB’s. If you can continue to do your show in Spain around rim brakes I’ll eat crow.

[@themindunset]

Thanks, Russ. Love Velo. I think a Russ Rando Review would be AWESOME!

[@lesand5484]

The owner of the German niche brands Falkenjagd and Rennstahl just bought Stanton, a British niche brand for MTBs to help it survive. I really hope these niche brands make it despite the current difficulties of the market.

[@CasioSilver]

oooh love the r/xbiking sub shoutout! yeeah boi, gotta keep those older bikes rollin'! :D I first heard of VO from their Crazy bars and hope to one day build a lil Neutrino mini velo since they're so cute XD

[@fraz3385]

Yeah. r/xbiking fan here too!

[@gravelpack8536]

Great stuff

[@abicyclist]

VO hammered fenders and stainless porteur rack, stainless chain guard all have been great adds to my commuter singlespeed CX.

[@jackiegammon2065]

I was interested in your conversation about ebikes, and as a small shop owner, my insurance person mentioned that I should truly have another liability insurance policy for ebikes. His main concern were the brands that typically do not have liability insurance and then the bike ships without insurance, so the consumer or bike shop now is responsible for warranties, recalls or the actual liability of the bike. I chose not to service ebikes a long time ago, but the insurance was another piece of that decision when COVID hit and ebikes became more popular. Thanks as always for sharing!!

[@NameLess-lk2qu]

Was so stoked to the piolet with silver and brown accents wooo

[@dannydirty_life_and_times8916]

I watched this last night and purchased a frame set from velo the next day 👍👍

[@jeffandersen6233]

Your podcasts have really been great to listen to. You have developed this format well and the guests are informative. Love VO for keeping biking fun and useable products available. And really great to see the human face of these companies. VO Grand Cru brakes just went on my old revamped Trek and are terrific.

[@Josukegaming]

I'd love to see you feature more European / especially Dutch companies like this! The edited down podcast format also works well

[@gravedoja]

Look forward to seeing the new rim braked bike from VO. Speaking of rim braked bikes, Russ have you seen the Brother cycles Mr Wooden? Wonder if you could bet one for review? Great interview.

[@kevindean9613]

I've just purchased an Olsen bike & what I like is that they will & can customize exactly what you want ,They enen listen to constructive criticism . I've got the Lamb model with a Pinion gear box & in my opinion it's a great bike & excellent value .

[@veloaa-montreal6924]

I remember when I needed a French threaded bottom bracket for my Peugeot, VeloOrange was the only brand I could find that made one, that was my first experience. Sadly that frame bit the dust not long after

[@certainperfectratio]

yes vote for the podcast format

[@thomasf.9869]

One of the ways people come find out about Velo Orange is the bike shops that stock and recommend their products. At least I found that to be the case with their vendors.

[@johnmartin4650]

Good stuff…..thanks

[@eddiea5076]

please bring back the 6 pack front rack....

[@fg3901]

I thought the shifter on the downtime was very cool - I rarely use my high or low up front so for me it would work.

[@nickkowal6537]

The crazy bars are the most practical handlebars I've ever used.

[@xerxesdacat]

Since most bike shops now cater to the 1% with most of their bikes above $2k and no high end component options for aluminum bikes or even steel bikes for sale, I see a need and an opening for small bike companies to cater to the average person who isn’t going to buy disposable luxury carbon bikes that don’t last more than 5 years of continuous use and components that are not interchangeable or replaceable. My first two bikes were at a bike shop, my remaining bikes started off as chromoly frames I bought online. I do visit my local bike shops to buy chains, tires, or inner tubes, and on occasion brakes and seats. But I will never buy a bike from them, their sub 2k bikes are uninspiring, and their 2k, 3k and on average 4k road and mtb bikes are fragile carbon frames, no way I would drop anything above that to get a disposable bike.

[@fuzzi1002]

O Man, 10 Speed Dura Ace Downtube Shifters..... I would sooooo love to have any of those. 🤩🤩❤ I've been looking for some for so long, for my classic road bike, for a restomod.

[@cecilecorpuz5735]

10 Speed DURA-ACE Down tube index shifters some time back I once bought 10 sets at $ 10.00 per set here in Holland, once a month there was a blow out list coming out of TAIWAN averaging about 4 to 5 pages and these levers were on the list so I grabbed 10 sets, they can still be had here in Holland NOS for right around $ 100.00 U.S.D. it's a lot but then again it's a whole lot less than $ 300.00. On another note: I saw your interview with Grant and his love for Rapid rise rear Derailleurs, I saw a lot of these, cases and cases at a supplier or bicycle factory over here I just can't remember who and where because my focus was mostly for race and track, next time I'll know for sure not to let them get away. Next week I'm off to Belgium for some digging around in some old bicycle shops and suppliers 1st on my list will be Rapid rise rear Derailleurs.

[@jeffdible8171]

Igor, Your products are fantastic! Have a look at Bimodal for an ebike solution. Your disk brake bikes would be perfect for it. Still waiting on more market penetration, but a removable motor on a regular bike seems like a great idea. The niche is where you guys live and a lot of us live in the niche! Pragmatic, practical, and dare I say it... vintage is where its at.

[@monka8112]

Yes! An electric hub wheel that could be thrown on an otherwise human driven bike would be great. For an otherwise too demanding tour… to help a less motivated partner to come along… to do more practical shopping trips in hilly neighborhoods! But also in style: matching a timeless real bicycle look…

[@rexcolinmitchell3834]

I heard about Velo on this channel! 4:33

[@HansensUniverseT-A]

One brand i can think of that i would classify as a small brand is Surly, certainly a niche brand, i used to be all over their bikes until they started chasing trends, they completely ruined their bike lineup, took away or butchered models that made them truly stand out, if small brands want to survive they need to either stick to a niche of they fill one or find one, don't chase the tails of the big ones and you will thrive.

[@jezzarisky]

E-Bikes and scooters definitely more regulations, though it does often feel like there's a portion of people desperate to paint them as bad while ignoring the extensive property damage, injuries, health issues, and death related to automobiles...that clearly need more serious examinations that aren't happening. Having an electric scooter has been a huge boon on my local transportation needs, and the bad and non-critical press(some warranted some not) seems like it is pushing a positive movement in the wrong direction. As an apartment dweller with no protected locking space for bikes, stuff like electric scooters, as well as Brompton's, the VO Neutrino, and the Cannondale Compact Neo have been on my radar as hauling a full bike up and down the 2 flights of spiral stairs at my place is annoying(as well as compact use for public transit)

[@independentmind1977]

I think as the big names keep hiking up their prices, they just make more of a case to run to the smaller brands that give a bigger bang for the buck. Personally, I'm over carbon, and today's steel and aluminum is better and lighter than the 90's and 80's tubes (My Specialized aluminum Chisel is just as light probably as my GIANT TCR race rocket.) If I was in the market, the RANDO and PASS HUNTER framesets are beautiful!!!! I'm checking out their bars for a restauration/conversion.

[@dubhghlas9163]

In terms of durability, reliability, and outright usability, for general use, commuters, tourists, and around the world travelers, the quality of a bike's drive chain would get to the core of what a bike should have, all other components of a bike evolving around that. Ultimately 8-speed chain became the best, working with 5/6/7/8 and even 9-speed gear trains and with a triple crankset and friction shifting those gear trains can equal or even outmatch what Shimano is selling today, except for speed and convenience of shifting. High capacity (22T+) front derailleurs for those chains have become scarce, hard to find and get, but MicroShift offers its ADVENT Rear Derailleur 9 Speed Long Cage, with or without a clutch, with 47T capacity and that rear derailleur works just fine with 8-speed chain. See what a 46-34-24T or 48-36-26T x 12-34T could do for your bike, your load, and your hills. Shimano has continued some of its earlier components in the Asian bicycle market. Meanwhile, I continue to pester Velo Orange about bringing the Campeur and Mixte framesets back, please!

[@robenglish416]

Works better as a podcast! Seeing you is not necessary and I can listen while biking

[@Jacob99174]

Yes

[@carterbrazil]

bless

[@lorien237]

I’d love to hear you talk to Tumbleweed.

[@michaelmann6482]

Didn’t get to tune in for live stream but belated question for Igor from someone who’s been a customer from the days when VO had 6 products: have you ever had a product flop that you were absolutely sure was going to be a hit?

[@dadwithwrenches]

Camargue Frameset! It was a really cool bike, but it came out around the same time as the Piolet - basically disc brake version of the Camargue. One production run and that was that! I wish I could find another one.

[@johnkanode3697]

Enjoyed the interview. Also Velo Orange, please don't do an electric bike or electric shifting.

[@erics9214]

Interesting what he said about Google and Facebook ads. I've wondered for some time how much of the billions in ad revenue that those companies have Hoovered up was just money down the toilet. Management at large companies are always just chasing the latest fad.

[@akaraikiriakatsuki3157]

Smaller sized bike companies doesn't need to worry about big companies. Because they made bikes those big companies doesn't make anymore. Like 27.5 hardtail.

[@camt1818]

I feel like VO could make a good cycle truck, working off the neutrino design. Not enough options out there!

[@brucex1e]

This!!

[@brettduncan2795]

I need a “How to build an ATB for the short guy” guide 😂

[@DanielNunez-ur9dm]

Wait those XT shifters don't use the 8th click? I have a set that I couldn't figure out what speed they were.

[@hippiebits2071]

Just throwing up another vote for rim brakes.

[@edvert1996]

Better than specialized!!!

[@davidmurphy9151]

The 120/130 spacing on the Rando frame are a pain in the ass.

[@velo_orange]

How so? They use interchangeable dropout inserts so you can run either very easily.

[@davidmurphy9151]

@@velo_orange The white CLD hubs I have on the wheels I own do not seem to have that option.

[@dadwithwrenches]

@davidmurphy9151 you would use two different wheels. One with 120mm spacing for single speed and the other with 130mm for geared.

[@phillipkrall8853]

I have no idea who this guy is. You swallowed the name.

[@velo_orange]

It's Igor, our co-owner!

[@matthewickman]

Rim brakes work.

[@rvssellcarson]

How do I get on the Velo Orange Tour de France team??

[@TheCyclingWill]

All city is closing 😮

[@KNURKonesur]

In Europe they will all be bought over by Decathlon... Just kidding! Sonder Bikes, I love you! Plz sponsor me some day :P

[@mediaburn2]

The prices for bikes is way too high, yet hardly anyone is making any money.

[@scottoleary3726]

I don’t think all of the boutique builders will survive. VO is the only company offering a boutique frame under 1K that I’m aware of. 2k for a frame and 4k for a bike is probably not sustainable in the long haul. A lot of the builders exist in the same space - ATB/gravel/ adventure

[@dariuslankarian3282]

Classic looking velo orange ebike with disc brakes would be a killer.

[@user-je3wl3zo6n]

First!

[@cmddelete2169]

Velo Orange aren't that small in the scheme of things tbf.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Compared to a Specialized, Giant, Trek and even QBP they are.

[@clarkedevin]

Weirdo cyclists are the best type.

[@holben27]

Disc brakes are so overrrated anyway

[@keithpollasky2414]

Why don’t you interview a company like Evil? Super small make great MTB’s and a ATB like the Hagar. Love your channel but the retro grouch is getting old man.

[@cosinus_square]

@velo_orange rim brake rims - most likely the next component in line to be discontinued, get a head start on that.

[@fraz3385]

Their rim brake rims like the voyager are superb tubeless rims. Other than Velocity Cliffhanger there's nothing similar. And the VO rims seem better made. I don't see any reason they would be discontinued.

[@cosinus_square]

@@fraz3385 I meant other companies discontinuing rim brake rims. If people are not buying them they will simply stop selling them, there's no way around that. At the end of the day VO is a business as well, not a non-profit. There are a handfull of quality aluminium rim brake rim manufacturers left, It's not even funny.

[@OU812NVME]

HUFFY IS THE BIGGEST BIKE SUPPLIER LOL