How Stoicism Became The World's Greatest Scam

As someone who has covered and studied Stoicism for years now, I’ve noticed something strange happening. This ancient philosophy that was once a guide to living a good and fulfilled life has been co-opted by the manosphere and turned into snakeoil, sold as the magic pill to fame, fortune, and everything in between. My question is why stoicism? Out of all the other philosophies out there, why this one? In fact, why philosophy at all?
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[@AaronCano-lm6xs]

“Waste no time arguing what a good man should be. Be one.”-Marcus Aurelius This philosophy is thousands of years old, we must keep it pure and true.

[@BlackJesus8463]

You do you.

[@LulJey]

That’s not even stoicism.. it’s just common sense.

[@LimboxBruv]

​@LulJey we have gained the ability to comprehend complexity for the ability to comprehend simplicity. Often we forget to factor is just common sense due to our nature of over complicating stuff and forgetting the simple but rudimentary ideas.

[@LucyTheGreat]

I kinda disagree? Things should evolve as society evolves, there's no way something from 1900 years ago will be as relevant today as it was before. So of course every idea should transform, and we should make mistakes and learn from them. It's just that we hear too many opinions now and get that Dunning-Kruger effect.

[@doornumb]

Real.

[@darth-gerry6659]

I think Marcus Aurelius would hate what stoicism has become

[@TheRa_ist]

Stoicism hasn't changed, it's people like Tate selling their bs in the name of stoicism.

[@Cryboutet]

Aurelius stole stoicism from Buddhists

[@angleth]

@@Cryboutetwhat? He didn’t even make stoicism himself, simply adopted it. Ignorance is bliss

[@momgo6533]

@@Cryboutethow does one "steal" a philosophy????

[@blackarot6295]

Stoicism is for dummies

[@samsebastine1295]

Stoicism has intricate values, and depending on what you learn, it can turn you into a wise man, but when you go to a clown for information, don't be expecting anything but a circus.

[@sullyschwartz2365]

Yep. Had a coworker who talked about how he read meditations, was excited. He never actually talked about it much, though, but then he started Epictetus... only to not finish it. Instead, when I asked how it was going, he said he'd stopped and started reading one of those stereotypical "self-help, organize time, make people LIKE *YOU*!" 'succesful' people BS books. I think he, and many other people, buy translated versions meant for reading through quickly and with clarity. The points are simple. Concise. It makes it feel like a self-help book where you just think the statements to yourself on a surface level and never actually question what it means, what it says about your past actions, current views, and etc. Then he goes to Epictetus where he doesn't get a happy, easy reading and there's retorts that can raise questions that add to or challenge values that he and others never really thought on with reading Meditations.

[@samsebastine1295]

@sullyschwartz2365 Ye, I think that people should do their own research before getting into stoicism from some guy online. That goes with most information from the internet.

[@Deuce7Off]

No Stoicism has no scientific basis and that's why it's able to be sold as snake oil today. It's the anti thesis to our over technologized world. Every stoic points at Marcus Aurelius, a failed Roman emperor and ignores years of actual slow painful philosophical progress made by Kant, Schopenhaur, etc. Stoicism has been a step backwards for centuries.

[@penburger]

I don't think stoicism can be taught. It can only be mastered through practice. It's not about never smiling or being untouchable. It's about exercising patience and having self discipline. You may not laugh at every joke, you may not agree with what people say and a lot of the time you may have nothing to say. In order for this to work you need to ensure that when you do speak it's something valuable and thought provoking. There's an irony in this, I say you can't learn stoicism then attempt to teach it... I dunno. It's a state of mind, I'll leave it at that

[@no-dogma]

Tate being a stoic is the joke of the century

[@RR_theproahole]

Bro has 0 self control, he's exact opposite of what a stoic is supposed to be

[@AliKhan04]

Yep he's no stoic

[@blondecaveman9100]

He just said he is Muslim the other day, the guy is just following trends lol

[@listoh]

No self control, too emotional when he speaks

[@prestoncuteherb3998]

😂 he's loud

[@Cheshirekat.]

people will do anything to not read a book, a free, public domain book.

[@quietprofessional4557]

Reading the original books is the only way to understand Stoicism. Seneca, Epictetus, and Aurelius.

[@ApertureThinking]

fr

[@dracula7779]

@@ApertureThinking side-note: at 48:16 in the video the person says they'll be leaving links on free sources of stoicism learning in the description. but sadly it was probably forgotten, i hope you'll add some if you had them saved. I'm personally using an audio book of Aurelius's meditations through youtube.

[@angelrosas6158]

@@dracula7779 Yes. Please provide.

[@Cheshirekat.]

(because putting links in youtube comments has its own system of problems) Google: Marcus Aurelius Meditations free online you can copy/paste what i just wrote. Also, it's actually pretty short, all things considered, you can read the whole-ass thing in under 5-7hrs

[@eliseotorres2389]

Man stoicism literally save my life (Epictetus, Seneca, Marcus Aurelius, Musonius Rufus) and every time I heard this kind of of people using that philosophy to profit or hide their misogynistic thinking is just frustrating.

[@VaxRabbit]

All I know is I discovered stoicism about five years ago. It appealed to me to deal with my regrets. I no longer have regrets. However my blessed mother passed and I attribute the philosophy to my strength and ability to accept what I couldn't change. I'm not offended by anyone else's use or misuse of it. I believe in any way it helps others is worth it.

[@unknownhehe3903]

I’m happy for you my fellow human you are doing great !

[@muhammadrazashahhash]

this always happends when an idea goes mainstream. this is usually the thing that kills a meme

[@noahduffin5492]

Very true

[@disgruntleddev]

This is so on point it hurts

[@mugnuz]

alternate title: "how capitalism became the world's biggest scam" sorry its always my invisible hand writing this!

[@kafikir]

I had already seen Hamza and Tate's Stoicism videos on KZbin. What I liked most about it was how the comments strongly disagreed with their understanding of Stoicism.

[@BlackJesus8463]

That must be why AT is a Muslim now.

[@revengance4149]

@@BlackJesus8463 incert "I don't want to play with you anymore" meme

[@Creym464]

I dont watch their video Well it different now compare to then after i read a begginer guide of stoicism and i see alot of fault but i digress and decide them as indifferent and possibly left

[@samsebastine1295]

I used to watch there videos at first it was good then a few weeks of those type of videos it's just the same information then he adds his own things about women and making money which are completely off topic from stoicism

[@Damesanglante]

He became muslim because there are lots of muslim customers and since they already are naive enough to beleive in fairy tales, they are naive enough for his sells.

[@Farmingforskills247]

For real, people need to start realising this. While stoicism is great, it's not everything. It's not "going into monk mode" all the time. Influencers these days created so much content related to that, that a great fraction of youngsters get obsessed with "grind" "stoicism" "monk mode". While all these started as great concepts as taken on Aperture's previous video's, now it's just honestly toxic.

[@samsebastine1295]

I would say some of it is toxic it but the core principles is helpful it's just that some people took advantage of it like the utuber hamza and many others who now sell a course about it and claiming you'll be financially free

[@Farmingforskills247]

@samsebastine1295 True. Anything to be taken for more than what it is will become toxic. Moderation is the key. But honestly, sometimes we need to enjoy the luxury of having to not think about anything and let our minds space out a little. All the grind, work, self improvement aside.

[@soumakirimoto2195]

​@@samsebastine1295 Moderation is key

[@kshitijmehta876]

Ideology is not reality...its time we realize that.

[@GulagMoosefeller]

Stoicism has become toxic because some grifters are making money off of selling courses? Suckers are everywhere and millions of people desire direction. Virtue signal much?

[@michaelralph5472]

The problem in my opinion is that we have created such a consumeristic society. That is fueld by greed and fomo. That we neglect the internal/spiritual nature of stoicism and other schools of thought. We have put financial gains before anything of any actual value that we are willing to sacrifice the majority of our lives chasing a number on a screen. Or we whore out our virtue and dignity for a paycheck.

[@riaanvanniekerk1567]

Probably the best comment on here.

[@PieterJellesTroelstra60]

As a Trotskyist I can't agree more. The goal of today's ideology is to destroy hope. The capitalist machine seems to reproduce itself not only in the material reality, but also in our minds. It turns everything in a commercial product. Working class people can't control the means of production today. And the government is defending the capitalist systems. The only solution could be if the people work together to achieve the common goal.

[@JDubbyDubby]

I’m a Buddhist. I’m not gonna hate people for trying to transform their minds through stoicism. The obstacle is the path. We come across this saying in Buddhism. We take our suffering on the path. We recognize suffering as an opportunity to strengthen our resolve and transform our mind. This intention creates the quality of perseverance in the mind. We moved from fearful to fearless. From apathetic to compassionate.

[@BlackJesus8463]

Soicism is Buddhism by another name and without the mistranslations.

[@dampking]

@@BlackJesus8463Its a lot closer to taoism

[@zenscape663]

@@BlackJesus8463 exactly they don't want to give credit where its due and plagiarize everything from the east

[@lawrencemalata1503]

@@JDubbyDubby wonderfully said

[@adotheginger]

@@BlackJesus8463I don't care what it is As long as it's genuine guidance towards a much content and kinder innerself, it can be called whatever The real problem is people trying to make this "suffering" less suffering in their "path to understanding suffering" And that's just a diluted version of what you could get from that

[@jbizzle4922]

"He who is richest is content with least." Epictetus. Don't see any of these shills giving up their wealth and material pleasures to become richer in spirit, do you?

[@HexxuSz]

that would make no sense

[@ThatBalkanGuy.]

What's the point of giving up your money...💀

[@mugnuz]

@@ThatBalkanGuy. the point is not being rich but also not forcing and trafficing women to have and make content! uh sorry i mean to have a lot of content in your soul... uh i mean to be content without needing money. this is weird in english and im confused if andrew tate said epic-titties, socrates, seneca, democles, or plato or everyone said that!

[@stop8738]

@@mugnuzIf that’s the case why aren’t all the CEOs and owners of webcam companies in prison for trafficking?

[@mugnuz]

@@stop8738 isnt tate still in jail?!

[@KJ-pu8dw]

Rather than listening to all the BS on the internet people just need to read Seneca, Marcus Aurelius and Epictitus.

[@TomiJedno]

no, thanks... Plotinus, Plato are far better

[@kyrerymmukk7446]

​@@TomiJednoit's not a contest. You can actually read things that contradict each other, or seem wildly unrelated and still draw your own conclusions.

[@TomiJedno]

@@kyrerymmukk7446 huh? whats the point of reading that book then? if you want to learn something learn from the best.

[@andrewwagner8939]

The issue I think is even darker. Most issues that stoic philosophy addresses are generally in line with the guidance a father provides. I think stoicism’s weaponization really targets men who have a less than ideal situation with their fathers. Stoicism is the bandaid on the bullet wound that is absent fathers.

[@cyanide_and_]

THIS. As a woman, I sensed that as I recently started listening to a KZbinr - read the comments and you'll even feel it through them.

[@morodriguez2840]

I’m not a smart man but I’ve lived by a rule that has served me well throughout my life and that is if anyone is trying to sell you info, knowledge or anything that they claim can help you, It’s bullshit. don’t buy it. If someone truly wants to help you and those people around them then they will ask for nothing in return. No money. No favors. Nothing.

[@BillyJupiter]

While i understand what you trying to point out. There's a difference between altruïsm and integrity. 👍🏽✌🏽

[@williamkreth]

So you don't buy and read books ?

[@jakejanssen4319]

@@williamkreth I read books, but I pirate them lol, keep lining the publishing companies’ pockets

[@williamkreth]

@@jakejanssen4319 books are pretty cheap. I don't mind paying money to people who put in the work

[@davidcraig7771]

@@jakejanssen4319you’re okay being a thief?

[@nyutrig]

yea, this is dumb. tate is no stoic.

[@markusblatt7375]

​@@waynealan3067 Taken at face value, it could be. But is it actually the case? Would he still be the exact same without his money, his cars and his publicity? If so why did he acquire it in the first place when it should've made no difference?

[@JarinCOD]

yeah he is a muslim, lmao

[@williamkreth]

​@waynealan3067 Andrew taint is a total show boat that is not stoic at all

[@BlackJesus8463]

Hes not Stoic he's Muslim and you cant be both.

[@goodstuff6006]

​@@waynealan3067 his character says otherwise.

[@land3021]

My annoyance at how outdated and normie'ish and counter-meme-culture the term stoicism was, is what saved me from this scam tbh.

[@BlackJesus8463]

Its buddhism bruh (and gold buddhas are neat)

[@briancomforti3890]

Aurelius could have never predicted how g*y the future was going to be

[@ivankatsaklidis1192]

​@@briancomforti3890look up pederastry in ancient Greece and Rome 😂😂😂😂

[@samsebastine1295]

😂 ​@@briancomforti3890

[@mugnuz]

@@BlackJesus8463 christ! that makes absolutely no zen! and i prefer silver or even more preferably platinum ones!

[@ryan99842]

the fact that nobody talks aobut Unveiling Your Hidden Potential by Bruce Thornwood speaks volumes about how people are stuck in trance

[@Dezron]

lol like botted

[@DarkAim]

bot comment dont buy this book

[@unune9069]

Cult bot

[@Zlotyi-7]

Ya remember the 13 apostoles? They were a cult. ​@@unune9069

[@adithya444]

How to know if it's a bot?

[@majastaud9705]

Breathing in and out trying to be upper case Stoic™ while watching the ads remembering it's the way to support you for making those AWESOME videos. Honestly, I've always felt so off about how Stoicism was handled but now i feel so validated, like you put the general feeling into actual words

[@bloodlove93]

if you legitimately wish to learn of any philosophy... read the original books, then perhaps not newest but newer from decades ago from similar authors or people who assessed it, at "worst" listen to audio books or ones like......fml i hate my memory, something sawyer,he did art of war and seven military classics of ancient china with his own modern context notes...ralph i wanna say, he's actually gotten hands on with many of the far eastern documents and war philosophy original writings and inspected them for error to make sure it's an accurate translation. screw KZbin, tiktok and the like for taking over primary learning basically.

[@andresaponte1164]

The only thing missing from this video was mentioning that many KZbin channels discussing Stoicism, in English as well as in Portuguese and Spanish, are made SOLELY and EXCLUSIVELY to access the KZbin Partner Program and generate revenue through AdSense. In fact, there are videos online that teach you step-by-step how to create these videos with Greek statues, and the owners of these channels copy each other’s ideas. That’s why it only works for those who execute the idea first; those who come after to make these videos end up with channels that have thousands of videos uploaded... but few views and subscribers. Excellent documentary, thank you for sharing.

[@josedelapinio]

Sad to see stoicismn being abused 😢

[@ApertureThinking]

yeah, agreed.

[@thephilosoterikos3789]

Ironical isn't it?

[@janycebrown4071]

I agree 😢

[@nathanielbables8652]

​@@ApertureThinkingthis is only temporary issue

[@ProjectExMachina]

It is natural

[@oscarvel9189]

This is the tragedy of any belief system, unfortunately. That's why there are like hundreds of Christian denominations out there, including things like the prosperity gospel and fatalistic accounts of free will. And Christianity, of course, is but one popular example among many.

[@ErinMagner82]

I named my dog Seneca. He reminds me more of Rick James than a stoic philosopher. One day I watched a YT video "Was Seneca a Hypocrite?" and as if he understood the content, my dog took a $20 bill off the table and began to rip it to shreds. I don't know if that proves Seneca wasn't a hypocrite but it probably proves a lot of modern stoics are.

[@revengance4149]

somehow I found this comment funny without actually understanding it. props for that

[@ErinMagner82]

@@revengance4149 My dog (Seneca) heard that Seneca taught not to be attached to your wealth and then tore up a $20 bill. Maybe it's funny because my dog understands stoicism better than Andrew Tate? Seneca was accused of being a hypocrite for being very wealthy from his work as Nero's tutor. Some Seneca quotes on wealth stolen from the WWW: It is the sign of a weak mind to be unable to bear wealth. For many men, the acquisition of wealth does not end their troubles, it only changes them. The shortest road to wealth lies in the contempt of wealth. The poor lack much, the greedy everything. The greedy man benefits none and is his own worst enemy. Greed denies to itself what it has taken from everyone else. Golden roofs break men’s rest. These individuals have riches just as we say that we ‘have a fever,’ when really the fever has us. With parsimony a little is sufficient; without it nothing is sufficient; but frugality makes a poor man rich. Money has not yet made anyone rich. Poverty is unburdened and free from care. When the trumpet sounds, the poor man knows that he is not being attacked; when there’s a cry of “fire”, he only seeks a way of escape and does not ask what he can save. The greatest wealth is a poverty of desires.

[@mugnuz]

@@revengance4149 its about her dog is called seneca but acting like rick james. sadly on cocaine her dog said "im rick james" and called her the b word. to assert further dominance and show he doesnt care about money he shredded the dolla dolla bill yoa. or more likely and how i understood it was: many ancient greek philosophers related to this topic/stoism had open and public concerns about materialism/wealthyness. but many were rich themselves or had access to that because of their social and intellectual status. so its ironic that while she watches something about her good boi's name origin, the alive seneca did doggo things and ripped the bill(wealth, something with virtual but no materialistic worth).

[@revengance4149]

@@mugnuz aight thank you for explaining

[@Lianne-issa]

This gets a huge thumbs up from me. I’m female and I loved stoicism before it was co-opted. I’m glad you’ve labelled this disingenuous offshoot as broicism! It needs its own label!

[@SooDamGood]

It’s still as useful as it always was, you just have to go into the true meaning of Stoicism and not the modern version of it.

[@bloodlove93]

never loved or hated it, just eventually realized i had always been that way and apparently it had a definition... guess how often i did that throughout life...don't guess i lost count long ago. remember 9/11? i do feel the same now as then, blinked,happened, people did stuff. ohh pretty fire that's my summary of the day,remember watching on tv that morning, almost 8,by that time I'd actually oddly enough physically built a computer by myself... blame my dad for ordering it,leaving it out and trusting a 7yr old...I'm just surprised i plugged everything in right and didn't break anything.... obviously had to wait for dad to actually power it on and put programs in it, i just stuffed the case and plugged in cables...somehow correctly,which is weird because can't exactly say i ever felt particularly smart, but tbh i did find most people rather stupid...so idfk what's with that but hey that's decades ago,this is now.

[@JDubbyDubby]

Depth of knowledge is the purpose. You go deeper by practicing every day for the rest of your life. You can’t obtain realizations in seven days…

[@BlackJesus8463]

Epiphany comes in an instant. ✌

[@nasratnasrallah7421]

7 days can mean more than a year in uni

[@SaurianStudios1207]

When a fascinating, ancient philosophy like stoicism, turns from a school of thought that is designed to guide one’s life, actions, ethics, and inspire ideas (with deep historical, cultural, and spiritual context), into an influencer, money making, “all-about-me” scam that aims to prey on people’s vulnerabilities, hopes, insecurities, or miserable states, it ceases to be a philosophy. It becomes more of a trending topic than an exploration that could change one’s life.

[@timothywheeler3517]

One thing I've observed for the past 50yrs...as long as humans are involved in any situation you'll find some kind/form of scamming going on.

[@LeviRobinson270]

Successful investing is hard work because it means disciplining your mind to do the opposite of human nature. Buying during a panic, selling during euphoria, and holding on when you are bored and just craving a little action. Investing is 5% intellect and 95% temperament.

[@OliveLeee]

Assets that can make one successful in life

[@OliveLeee]

I. Forex 2.Stocks 3.Shares

[@AroShyti501]

​@@OliveLeeeYou are right.

[@AroShyti501]

But I don't know why people remain poor due to ignorance

[@AroShyti501]

The world is gradually moving out of the I work for my boss era, and people who choose to be entrepreneurs are highly securing a brighter future for themselves..

[@biashacker]

When Ryan Holiday found out how to market and sell stoicism, it was over.

[@somerled5513]

can't stand the dude

[@capodeicapi999]

@@somerled5513 is it a bad book?? if yes then can you recommend any alternatives? thanks..

[@tb4544]

He's always been a grifter. I've known who he was since he was a teenager. He was always connecting himself to the "hot" or "happening" thing at the time. In those days, he was very involved in the "Fratire" style of writing. He's like a leech that will latch onto anything that's popular.

[@somerled5513]

@@tb4544 Not surprised to hear this. Shame that he's earned so much money pedalling stoicism. I've always find him quite detestable. People will buy anything these days.

[@StardustCrusader18]

I've gotten into stoicism by reading 2 of his books. I don't understand the hate for Ryan Holiday. He's doing more good than bad.

[@JDubbyDubby]

To cultivate virtue in Buddhism, you need three pillars. Generosity, ethics, and meditation. It’s a life of study, reflection, contemplation, and meditation. The goal or the path is to generate wisdom within your daily life for your daily life. I have no idea how much this overlaps with stoicism, but having pillars and moving toward virtuous action is good. Misogyny, sexism, homophobia typically burn themselves out as boys turn into more mature men. Men in society will spend more time interacting with women. Women have a way of shaving off the hard edges of sexism, misogyny and homophobia. Men get better when they let go of their fears. I would teach them that.

[@BlackJesus8463]

They are the same but dogma is interpretation. Like I dont believe Buddhist have to worry about their ethics. loljk it all they worry about

[@lachlann4335]

I’m gonna say that although Stoicism is still great to practice, be careful who you get the information and motivation from. The teacher matters just as much as the teachings

[@BlackJesus8463]

I feel like that goes against everything Soicism stands for. hate is like taking poison and expecting the other person to die.

[@lachlann4335]

@@BlackJesus8463 Not necessarily. I believe one of the qualities of stoicism and philosophy in general is to question everything you are being told no matter where it comes from. If you don't have a filter for information, especially with misinformation spreading like wildfire in modern society, how can you be sure your opinions are your own and not someone else's? The whole point though I will admit is to be proven wrong so you can be a step closer to truth, so there's that.

[@thewhiteelephant]

Agree 100%. Ryan Holiday is the first one who comes to mind.

[@frankmossa6445]

Tate is far from stoic . A creep grifter definitely!

[@anelcatic6372]

Cope harder

[@squibbelsmcjohnson]

He definitely is but he is also just toxic lol

[@BlackJesus8463]

The guy is 100% genuinely honest about everything he says.

[@farfaraway8738]

If someone is stoic, cannot be toxic lol ​@@squibbelsmcjohnson

[@bhatkat]

Grifter? Suspect psychopath.

[@Kiarakbm]

I hate that young men are being targeted by this "broicism" subculture. As a 25 yr old woman, I've noticed this ideology is very prevalent amongst guys my age that I've come across. I'm so glad this video popped up on my feed. Awesome work to you all.

[@BetwixtPhilosophy]

Completely agreed; I talk about the ancient philosophies including Stoicism and there's a lot of DMs that I get that have the wrong impression of what it actually is, which is unfortunate really. Things like, again, how to ignore emotion, how to have PURE and RAW discipline - which completely devoids the value Stoicism actually brings...

[@alexjayhara7549]

I just want to thank aperture for sharing this video. It is an eye opener on how we should interpret Stoicism. Now, I am facing challenges but don't want to share it to anyone. I keep everything on me, my own sadness, my own comfort. But still, I'll keep my heads up. Thanks aperture ✨

[@MazeMediaTV]

The Stoicism being sold on KZbin and Instagram isn't the real deal. It's a watered-down, oversimplified version that promises easy solutions to complex problems. I shared the same sentiments on my channel "The DARK TRUTH about Modern Stoicism"

[@rickson-e2y]

sad to see just how stoicism has been abused like this. great video on your channel btw! just subbed. hidden gem.

[@BlackJesus8463]

I dont believe there is a way to mistranslate virtue. ✌

[@sumedhhhh]

Feels bad to see what they did to stoicism, absolutely depressing. Thank you for exposing this pretentious trend

[@awimbaweman]

One of the great ironies is that one of the things that you just have accept in stoicism is social status. Epictetus says "if you're born a slave, be the best slave".

[@Chaitanya77]

I have ordered lots of books related to Stoic philosophy like ego is the enemy, the obstacle is the way, the daily Stoic,letters from a Stoic and the manual. That's why I'm interested in this video. Let's see !

[@dsmyify]

Those Stoic books are considered business books. Nothing wrong with that; but they are not philosophical.

[@girlofdragon1973]

@@dsmyify They are still rootet in philosophy and largly use philosophers as reference. I believe that makes them philosophical even if less than others or just in a different light.

[@fernandoa589]

Read Epictetus Discourses. I suggest Robin Waterfield’s translation.

[@insiderperson18279]

There are better authors than Ryan Holiday, he doesn't follow what he preaches

[@girlofdragon1973]

@@insiderperson18279 I havent really looked into him, but I think the teachings can be considered on its own. No one is perfect and 100% consistent. I also havent looked much into other authors either tho, so keep that in mind. Can you recommend me some?

[@TOMWEDDING]

Sometimes we can misinterpret "dilution of wisdom" as a bad thing. Sometimes it's just wisdom and knowledge evolving. New ideas mixing with old ideals. There is no "right" way only the way that is.

[@JJoy225]

If you don’t engage in critical thinking or try to live by a truly individual philosophy, this is what you get- following “strong men” scammers, new “religions”, etc.

[@3k9k]

This guy gets it

[@DanielChardMagic]

All these people don’t understand what stoicism is. They only quote being “stoic” as a virtuous mode of living. And I love stoicism, however it’s a great philosophy and very helpful, but all you need is Marcus Aurelius, Seneca and Epictetus. Some of Ryan’s holidays books are very good supplementations as well. The original texts are the best however :)

[@jamespogi99]

That's why it so much better when you keep it to yourself and not share to everyone only trustworthy individual.

[@octavian8b]

For me i found stoicism when I was in a bad place mentally. Couldn't find any meaning, trying therapy but without a result. I found stoicism through a Christmas gift. Someone gave me Marcus Aurelius's Meditations. I started reading it and it blew my mind... after that I went to KZbin to find more about and found Ryan Holiday. Don't know, he had something that resonated with me in his videos and made me want to dig even deeper. I started discovering Seneca and Epictetus through Ryan and started buying writings from the old stoics. For me Ryan's work yes, it's commercially oriented, but I find it very good to introduce you to the stoic philosophy and to somehow keep you on the rails with his videos with quotes from the stoics. But the internet on the other hand... I try to limit my internet consumption of stoicism to Ryan's videos as I find it the most sincere, but I can see how you can go down the rabbit hole from stoicism to consumerism in a beat 😅.

[@christiiesudiscipulus3192]

Aperture, you are certainly an interesting case. I've watched your videos for the past three years now, and I watched as you dove deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole of stoicism as I have to Christianity. It has been interesting to watch you from a distance as you went from covering the topic to following the philosophy and now defending it as it has become 'oversaturated' by false doctrines. In much the same way, I have travelled from Protestantism to Orthodoxy and Catholicism.

[@tristanregincos1735]

I'm curious, but what makes you change your mind about protestantism to Orthodoxy and Catholicism ?

[@christiiesudiscipulus3192]

@@tristanregincos1735 Personally, it was a mix of both personal experience, what I would argue as a divine call, and general theological disputes. I could go more into depth at a later date, if you'd like.

[@tristanregincos1735]

​@@christiiesudiscipulus3192 If that don't bother you I really want to know the profound reasons why - and it is not a problem if you write a lot, I love reading.

[@christiiesudiscipulus3192]

​@@tristanregincos1735 Of course not! I have my reasons, of course, that I will get to shortly. It's a pretty inexplicable thing, to be honest- from an outside view it just seemed like a natural progression, and in many ways it was. I went to a Lutheran church for a while, and when their theology clashed with the theology I had developed (which is inclined towards saintly prayers, mysteries, and inquiries) I became dissatisfied with it and went on to dive headfirst into the old rites. Currently, I'm in the process of learning about becoming a catechumen at a Catholic church nearby, and what all I would need to do so that I could pull this off effectively. This much has been surface-level, though. The church I grew (up) in stopped existing. As for my personal issues, they are as follows: For the first part, the many people who made that church what it was to me left over the span of about two years. Just a few at first; some volunteers for our youth group moved away, some people on the tech side had to take Sunday shifts, etc. Our Chilean translator and friend who came to visit us had to go home on their visa, things like that. Then, some personal issues occurred, and they hit me hard. I won't say what happened, but a dramatic shift happened because somebody near the top of the chain overreacted to a problem of mine and I was sent to a local institution for a few days. I wasn't mentally ill, at least not prior. I struggled with purpose and doubts and I had a really tough week. I still remember that cursed place I was sent to. I didn't go back to church for a few months after that. Several months later, I was invited back by the automatic notification which brought me to go on a church retreat called CIY which I grew particularly fond of. The speakers were great, the food was great, and it all took place on a college campus a few hours away from me. I reconnected with my friends who I hadn't seen for a solid few months, laughed, and generally forgot about my experiences prior. I thought that a bad thing happened for the sake of good, and a solid year of good times and events passed there. I volunteered almost a hundred hours of my time- maybe more, helping develop and bolster a healthy, growing community. I made some of the best friends I've ever had from it. All was good for about two years. We went on the trip again, and it was a great time; we had several youth events come and go, the number of students was thriving, and then the school year was finally out. Two weeks later, our youth director was no longer working at our church. He wasn't dismissed dishonorably, and nothing major had happened outright, he had just taken a new job as a Hospital Chaplain. At that point, the culture of the church shifted. It lost that key figure who held operations together. I see now in retrospect how much stress this placed on his shoulders, keeping an entire portion of our church on his back while balancing family and work. it was probably too much for him to handle for much longer, but we didn't know that when we stayed half an hour late every day talking about our lives with him. He was like our confession booth, councilor, best friend, and mentor all in one. He wasn't the only person with this much stress on his shoulders, but when he left things went downhill rapidly. That CIY trip I mentioned earlier went terribly this year. My roommate woke me up at 4:30 every morning, since his work alarm was then and he refused to turn it off because 'he might forget it' after. I am of the belief that he was in need of mental services and they were not provided; his demeanor was very childish and he was very unwise to the ways of the world while going into his senior year of high school at home. The speakers were (by what I would consider Scriptural Canon) heretical at times, the quality of the service was poor, there was blatant sexism against the young men at the retreat, and deliberately poor communication by the leadership that took over after. I had to spend two hours speaking with the head pastor during the retreat about how preposterous the situation was, and even still little to nothing was done. During this period, I began praying the Rosary, and it was the only solace I got during the period. My best friend, who didn't attend the trip due to his ankle injury, spoke to me about Catholicism several times over the past few months. I reached out to him and he recommended that I look into it. He was born and raised Catholic, but came to this church because of the people who were there. It was during this period that I got the idea that Protestantism isn't for me- it just doesn't work. While praying the Rosary, I imagined a glass pane that split down the middle a long time ago, (symbolizing East and Western Christianity), and each new church that came out of them splitting off into microscopic grains of silica glass- sand. It isn't the best analogy, but I can explain it better. As for the theological reasons behind it, I have to take a step back and discuss why I became interested in Catholicism- memes. I was introduced to funny symbols of John Ward from FAITH: The Unholy Trinity and they clicked with me in some inexplicable and divine way. I learnt what the rosary was, how to pray it, how to pray with saints, how to pray with icons, etc. all from the internet. I am currently that epitome of 'internet tradcath" or "internet Orthobro" because of it. Of course, my inquiries were deeper than just the memes, and I did actual research because of them. I learnt about the Creeds (which we did not explain at my old church), old Christian theology, traditions, eucharistic miracles, et cetera. I learned to practice fasting back in February around the beginning of Lent and during St. Valentine's Day, among many other things. Something within me changed when I discovered an old 90's zine called "Death To The World: The Last True Rebellion." It's a Roman Orthodox Church-sponsored zine that was overseen by some interesting figures, such as Seraphim Rose and a large lot of former punk rockers and gangsters from California. They all converted to Orthodoxy. Why? I'd ask you to Watch Harmony 's video of the namesake and discover so yourself- it's a tear-wrenching experience. As for the God-calling experience, I have shared with you my testimony. My heart was not satiated by the ways of this earthly unity. I was called to something greater. The first Catholic Mass I went to brought me to ecstatic joy, and I felt at home as if a warm blanket had descended upon the could shoulders of my soul. The week after, I went to an Orthodox Mass and wept tears of joy and wonder peering up at the icons that adorned the walls, ceiling, columns, and altar of the church. In both places, I felt closer to God than I ever had in the old church. I cannot use this as a good pillar of my argument, but the spirit of an old church is simply stronger. I felt more at peace in the heritage chapel at my old church than I ever did in the new contemporary hall. I most certainly enjoyed my time there in that new basketball-court-turned-chapel, but it was like you would enjoy a concert with its flashing lights, smoke machines, guitars, drums, and keys. Such things make a man celebrate earthliness, such things are not fit for praising God. Music is its own thing- I dislike three points, so here's one more: The music that is sang (or played) at a church defines the tone of its service. If a church degrades itself, denies itself its sacred nature, can it be called a House of God? For a Protestant church, we sang songs about things that we do in relation to God, not chant hymns of what God has already done for us and what God is going to do for us and to us. There is no goodness in self-worship, there is no God in selfish behavior. We take the time out of our Sunday mornings to Praise our Creator and rest in his presence, not party and celebrate folly! I lost my faith in protestantism because I felt like the church I was home to was blowing away in the wind. Like I had hold of it, and it ran out between my fingers like sand. What is Protestantism built off of but a man's interpretation of the scriptures? Have we not proven, conclusively, time and time again through countless wars and Councils and Creeds that such is a dangerous thing? There are centuries of bloodshed spilled for the sake of these arguments of theology gone so freakishly wrong. It's a dangerous thing to give the layman a bible and say "figure it out on your own." By the time they finish Genesis, they may well have convinced themselves to be an Israelite, and we all know the consequences of poor descriptions of baptisms as they have been transliterated over many languages. By no means am I saying that disagreeing is bad, but I am saying that there is a definitive truth and there is a distortion of the truth. Whichever a man pursues is how he will live his life. Will he be disillusioned by the broken ways of the world, or enticed by the ebbs and flows of time? More can be said, but such would be tedious. May peace be with you brother, and may the Saints and the Spirit guide you on your journeys wherever they may take you.

[@tristanregincos1735]

@@christiiesudiscipulus3192 Thank you so much for sharing your experience, and I apologize if it brought back painful memories. Your comment has helped me learn a lot more about Christianity and Catholicism, and I will continue to explore these topics further. I can sense that the Holy Spirit is with you, and through you, it has brought me enlightenment. May the peace of the LORD Christ be with you, my dear friend, and always remember that the Spirit will be with you in times of trouble. God bless you, your family and friends, and your church community with His wisdom and truth: Into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen.

[@dantiel92]

For Tate, you need to show cars and luxury houses in order to show their success. For stoics, what makes you strong are things that build character, and don't build your life around having luxury houses because when you lose material things that were your goals in life, you lose your purpose.

[@catalystcomet]

My introduction to stoicism was here on KZbin and at first it seemed like a pretty great thing, but I realized fairly quickly that they weren't actually teaching people how to master their emotions, only to mask them. I'm not a guy, but I lost my brother to suicide and I know that masking emotions is potentially a pretty big contributor to the suicide rate among men (along with societal expectations of usefulness resulting in men typically committing suicide around retirement age). Before too long I was able to find some channels that I felt weren't trying to tell people how to behave, but instead to teach them about different options, perspectives, stuff like that.

[@993LD]

Sorry to hear about your brother, my condolences. Happy to find you on a brighter side of the internet

[@Alex1999_3]

A genuine heart understands stoicism.

[@MrTapout180]

I studied stoicism for years and stoicism isn’t bad at all . But the the mainstream has turned into something else which is not stoic at all. I’m a Buddhist myself and the philosophies are quite similar and I embrace both philosophies.

[@SoulShiftingInsight]

40:57 My interpretation of the obstacle is the way, is that when you experience heavy resistance to do something, resistance being the energetic obstacle, then that shows you which way you need to go because resistance seeks to keep us from achieving greatness and striking gold per say. If there is heavy resistance to something then it denotes that what is on the other side of that resistance is extremely valuable and therefore could lead to more happiness or ease of life through facing the initial discomfort. I didn't interpret the obstacle as just being some external thing but an internal thing as well.

[@noOnieya]

Life is a series of actions, and when each action is performed virtuously (with the moral good in mind), it frees you from focusing on the outcomes by giving you the greatest joy you can ever get: of doing the right thing, or doing what's morally good. Even when you fail to achieve the goal of your actions, you remain unfazed because you know you did the right thing, and you still feel that joy which comes from it. The intent matters, the outcome doesn't. But when you fail to achieve the goal, when you can do nothing but to accept the fact, you don't just accept it with a heavy, aching heart. You accept it gladly, KNOWING it was willed by Destiny, and hence outside your control. This acceptance is a virtue too. So, you never fail to exercise virtue, you always have that inner joy from doing the right thing, and hence you are always able to look at the obstacle in front of you as an object to focus upon, for your next virtuous action. Virtue always leads to virtue if the intent is right. One virtuous action always leads to another virtuous action. The obstacle to your virtuous action becomes the object for the next virtuous action-no matter what. The obstacle then becomes the way.

[@SoulShiftingInsight]

@@noOnieya To clarify I wasn't just talking about achieving a goal or some outcome to bear fruit. In the Bhagava Gita, Krisha warns of this very exact thing you mention. That we are not in control of anything but our own labor, our own actions, the outcome or consequence of those actions, the fruit is not ours to determine. A positive intention is equally going to be met with resistance especially because it usually comes from the right thing to do which is valuable in itself because it is universally acknowledged. This sick culture only seeks to reward us like a carrot on a stick and our motivations then take shape to that dynamic. There is hardly reward for virtue in the western world. So people, animals as we are, become easy to herd and take advantage of. I agree to what you're saying about doing what's right regardless. From my experience it doesn't matter if it's a virtue or not, it will be met with resistance which is the root of all obstacles. It manifest in ourselves and others around us. To ultimately teach us lessons. In fact we wouldn't understand what you're describing without the willful assistance of this cosmic force (resistance) which if you ask me seems to be a hand of fate, and extension of God's power. When we pray to God for things, for example what will be given to us is not the thing itself or the outcome but the experience that will prepare us for that thing that we pray for. The rest will be up to us to enact. If you pray for strength, you won't be given super powers but you will be given obstacles in order to strengthen you. It's all resistance training. On a physical and metaphysical level, as well as a mental and emotional level.

[@noOnieya]

​@@SoulShiftingInsightI hear you. By the way, what I said was just the geniune Stoic thought process behind "The obstacle is the way". I am still learning more about Stoicism. I have yet to delve into Eastern, especially Indian (even though the distinction doesn't matter) philosophy, but will do that for sure, especially Bhagavad Gita.

[@GIGADEV690]

Loads of Bs

[@christinestpierre3462]

In an era where instant gratification and surface-level solutions are abundant, philosophy gives something deeper-a playbook for life. It encourages people to be reflective, grounded, and disciplined, which contrasts sharply with the fleeting, often shallow distractions modern life throws at us. People are probably seeking Stoicism as a cure-all because it provides that elusive sense of peace, resilience, and purpose-a way to deal with life rather than being swept away by it. It’s not that Stoicism is inherently a “snake oil,” but when it’s marketed as an easy fix for all of life’s problems, it can start to feel like a trendy philosophical band-aid IMO Stoicism offers not a solution to the human condition but a resignation to it. True freedom comes not from enduring suffering but from refusing to accept suffering as a moral ideal. The Stoic’s suppression of emotion is a rejection of life, not a path to virtue.

[@spacevox2584]

Interesting how you have this title for a video while also having video's like ''Stoicism: Become Undefeatable'' ''Master Stoicism in 60 Minutes'' and ''Stoicism: Conquer Your Resolutions''

[@ApertureThinking]

You will have to watch to find out how 🤞

[@anemonana428]

One thing is one thing, and the other thing is other thing. -cochiloco

[@tombyrne1637]

This video is going to be about fake stoics like tate

[@justinduffer9500]

​@@tombyrne1637Add Ryan Holiday to that list, although he's not anywhere near as cringe

[@sys_key3287]

Why is he fake? He seems good to me ​@@justinduffer9500

[@dailyrepsofficial]

Stoicism is not a scam but a guide to inner peace. As Epictetus wisely said, 'It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters.' Embracing this perspective can turn challenges into opportunities for growth and resilience So sad to see what is currently happening though!

[@Dodgerzden]

I learned what Stoicism is by reading an entry in my grandfather's 1963 Encyclopedia Britannica along with many other philosophies when I was a teenager. The encyclopedia was the internet before the internet. I'm sure Stoicism was a mindset long before it became a labeled philosophy.

[@qwertyb18]

I got into stoicism and cognitive behavioral therapy as a means of coping before this weird broicism marketing movement became a thing; nowadays I have to be careful with how I present these ideas to avoid stigma.

[@militustoica]

Epictetus would tell you, as he did to all his students in Book 2 of Discourses, that you ought to show your Stoicism through action rather than words unless in the presence of those interested in philosophy. It can be quite tough, but, as each day goes by, I see his point more and more clearly.

[@xXstevilleXx]

it was only after I lost all I had... it changed me, what I became is only what I later found aligned with true stoic principles but even then I would not call myself a de facto stoic, but seeing these "life hacks", that is what being stoic is about. I rarely comment, but thanks for covering this my good man.

[@frankmossa6445]

Excellent video, @Aperture !

[@aenguscupid4102]

I managed to notice as early as the trend of man of the sphere started to rise, but I didn't have enough proof. But a strong feeling that it was being misunderstood, being used by wrong people and washing the meaning of stoicism into a more different way.

[@gabe7109]

I first heard of the true Stoicism, and was able to use it to help overcome my anxiety. But now I don't believe I can share Stoicism with others because Broicism has become so mainstream, any time I try sharing it, this mockery of the practice prevents my messages from getting properly conveyed. It's genuinely frustrating.

[@JDubbyDubby]

Pithy sayings are essential to any daily practice. Life comes at us fast. We don’t have time to pull out some stoic manual. Memorizing pithy sayings simplifies. Do not mistake simple for dull. Simplicity is sharp. It cuts right through. It gets right to the point. That’s what you want in an effort daily practice.

[@noOnieya]

The pithy sayings do all that, yes. But only that. They do, however, miss the mark, by a considerable much. How? Because, as effective as you might believe the sharp sayings to be, they'll often leave you as soon as they strike a chord with your subjectivity. What that means is that the Stoic Principles and practices, when delivered as pithy sayings, lack the thought process that underlies them, as well as the context of adversity and life experience that led to their deliverance in the first place. Without the thought process and context, you can still use it to soothe your subjective experience, possibly calm a few storms too, but the all-consuming chaos of everything outside of you, one that comes for all of us sooner rather than later, will not be dealt with as effectively as it would have had you picked up, let's suppose, Marcus Aurelius’ Meditations and gone over his rational and repetitive rambling on the nature of our reality and man's role in it. If you do that, chances are, a pithy saying such as “People are made for each other; you can either instruct them or endure them,” will make more sense, be more effective, and leave a lasting impression on subjectivity, not to mention, give you a new perspective.

[@JDubbyDubby]

@@noOnieya hey I appreciate you writing all that just FYI I have a traumatic brain injury. It’s gonna take me a while to read this lol sorry about that. I agree I think. Just get some audiobook. Listen to the teachings. And then write your own pithy statements. Your short summary. Summarization is an excellent skill for memorization and comprehension. I used to be a special ed teacher. I probably sound like a teacher right now lol

[@JDubbyDubby]

@@noOnieya OK OK I think I read it correctly. I totally agree. In Buddhism, we never stop studying. Every day, I listen to some teaching on Buddhism, I reflect on those teachings, I meditate on those teachings. At the end of the day, you get wiser. And then you repeat that process the next day. Wisdom and repeat ~ wisdom and repeat, ~ wisdom and repeat. It’s a wonderful life. I’m super happy. 😊 I just don’t like the tone of the video. It felt condescending. But that might just be me. I don’t know. 🤷‍♂️

[@noOnieya]

@@JDubbyDubby No, you sound just right. Thanks for the reply. Take very good care of yourself. 👍

[@StephenHung2274]

Stocism same as psychotherapy is just a way to reduce unnecessary suffering. Stocism will not cure your problems, instead it should enable you to better focus on solving the solvable problems in life.

[@WillKNguyen]

Anyone notice this channel drop from 2.7 millions subscribers to 2.2 millions after this post.

[@catalystcomet]

No? I just checked three different analytics websites to fact check your claim and it's total bullshit.

[@nathankriegler5231]

did it really? never knew his sub count but it woud make sense, his video and ideas are warped out of context to construct an idea

[@mindyfree]

@@nathankriegler5231 That's right. it was around 2.7 mil subs around 2-3 weeks ago. I am not sure what happened and why they unsub

[@Andrew-Jhmob]

That's what I am concerned too

[@fritzbox6764]

In the comments of the community post some people thought - because of the thumbnail - that Aperture supports Tate and his ideas. Maybe that's why they unsubbed.

[@chasehughesofficial]

too often we see people online who claim stoicism while being obsessed with their image

[@rohand04]

Before I even watched the video let me give my experience... The true Stoic don't even care to call themselves as Stoic.. the moment you try to define it your pride get involved and triggered.. thats the opposite of what it really means.. I believe being a stoic is being the hero because you like to be and never expecting anything in return.. Your emotions are important but are above wins and losses.. above recognition and regections.. These are the code i live by.. - be good because you like it, no matter how bad and what the surroundings may be.. be bad if the outcome is good. - The solution of the problem is a much bigger priority than crying over split milk.. - emotional reaction will only delay the right course of action.. if you didn't get any recognition it doesn't matter you never did it for the claps.. Atleast that how i live my life well before i came to know it was a philosophical term for it..

[@briancomforti3890]

It’s fascinating that someone can make a business about telling people about stoicism, without having to invent it

[@suzannecarter445]

I'd been wondering about this. Your explanation was, as usual, spot on. I love the term "Broicism" even more than "Manosphere." I made my kid read Ryan Holiday's stuff (and Meditations) until he refused any more of what was devolving into drivel. Your talented vocalizations were tailor-made for the Voice of Reason. One thing about the Asian philosophy stuff - Does anyone really think say, the Rape of Nanjing (1938) that made the phrase "violence against women" seem meaningless, had something to do with "soft" Asian philosophy? If you introduced the Scotsman, I missed it - I want to read his book! Don't ya hate it when cc types out "Zeno led a spare and acidic life" instead of "ascetic"? Some kid's gonna put that in his high school essay

[@DigitalDemonicDavros]

Being stoic in my eyes, happens to be where you can walk away without looking back.

[@periodicdragonflare5572]

Swastica is a symbol for peace and prosperity not Nazi Christianity shares love and acceptance not Hatred and colonialism. Islam is peaceful and diligent not terrorists and killers. Democracy is meant for the people not big corporations. Stoicism is meant to conquer yourself and understand others not a profit making machine to discourage other’s while placing yourself on a podium.

[@realistic_delinquent]

You got Christianity and Islam half right, as they evolved to maximize both in-group cooperation and out-group hostility.

[@periodicdragonflare5572]

@@realistic_delinquent evolution doesn’t work for belief’s. You mediate from core beliefs then you’re no longer following the belief. That’s why despite being communist, China and Russia split up in 1966. . Unless ofcourse you’re also saying that the Swastica is and forever will be a symbol of prosperity for the Nazi party and never again the idea of peace.

[@knw-seeker6836]

When marketing and money is involved and you look what’s behind the curtain it can get uncomfortably true I really enjoyed your video on scrolling Being skeptic, question things or critical thinking is so important for learning

[@Z16us]

Having tate as a cover is stupid, tate is the polar opposite of what a Stoic is

[@kingkayfabe5358]

That's the point of the video and it's literally in the title

[@williamkreth]

I wish people would watch before making comments

[@Z16us]

Well tate obviously doesn't read and he just heard about it somewhere, tate philosophy is closer Nietzschean​@hope1416

[@KKaaIIKKaaII]

I just don't think anyone knows what stoicism is, it's an old idea that never worked, that's why it failed, far better ways to think, grow up and be an adult not a sook that consumes nonsense from the Roman days humans are far more evolved come on dude

[@ricomajestic]

​@@KKaaIIKKaaIIHumans have evolved very little from Roman times. Stop being naive.

[@destiny6129]

Glad to see a Nigerian person being part of your team ❤

[@ryansm3417]

14:35 “Ryan Holiday’s net worth is estimated at 5-10 million dollars.” 🤔 Prob a lot more than that.

[@EricAwful313]

I think this has been very unfair towards Ryan Holiday. He hasn't been blowing smoke up anyone's asses; he applies his talents in good faith. I don't see how this is in any way a betrayal of true Stoicism. If you can find toxicity in his messaging then bring it up. Guilt by association is not a thing; certainly not in the context of justice, anyway.

[@RuelandAlbe]

Aperture saved my life in all possible ways in the teaching of Stocism. End of story.

[@oceanman1687]

One thing I don’t see many people discussing is how modern “Broicism” is just extreme Epicureanism/Hedonism repackaged in a more widely accepted box.

[@soulthorn3]

True stoicism will always be a valuable trait to have but these fale stoics gove the rest a bad name.

[@user-rh6cs9qr6q]

Bros content getting tense now

[@nothingbuttamil8988]

I brought meditations a year ago. Honestly it was very difficult to read(though English is my second language, I am quite intellectual). Not just the translation but the metaphors and contrasts Marcus used and some points are three pages long. I now see why Ryan's work is being appreciated a lot. He simplifies it. Though I prefer the source rather than some guy milking it out. We as a society are more adapting to short form bite sized contents, so time tested texts are not even making sense anymore. Need to go back to my meditations reading again and throw away these Broicism garbages.

[@BlackJesus8463]

Have you ever heard of the YT channel Lady Babylon? He reads ancient Greek and Marcus Aurelius' physician Galen wrote a small library, you'd be surprised what was written.

[@temz_uche]

If someone is selling a book titled “5 rules to become a billionaire” and they are not nearly a millionaire, I’m for sure not buying that book

[@johnishadhikari]

Ryan Holiday introduced me to Stoicism, but since then I've been reading Stoic writings, including How to Be a Stoic by Massimo Pigliucci, and I've realized how oversimplified his content was. As a result, I no longer follow his work. While I don't particularly like what he's doing, I'm still grateful to him for introducing me to Stoicism, as it was the starting point of my journey into philosophy.

[@amorfati4927]

The problem being that in general Ryan Holiday is just a product of the bigger machine. He was the right person with the right backing for him to become “the face” of what many people see with stoicism. At the snap of a finger he’s doing all sorts of things with pro sports teams to who ever else. If people with the ability to back did so with people more respectable, you wouldn’t have the line about “being grateful for Ryan.” Unfortunately, Ryan (and more like the people backing Ryan) by and large is a fraud that happened to make good money off the grift. The upside being, like you said, he introduces many people to stoicism and those really interested end up swing Ryan’s schtick for what it is and move on to better writings. The other people maybe take something out of it and just get a little better (a little less to anger, a little more to thinking first) which is also good.

[@PK-se2jh]

Never knew much about it except its like Buddhism and Hindusim philosophy

[@rmt3589]

Only about 30 minutes in, and I need to sleep. I appreciate the real look at this phenomenon. I looked into stoicism years ago, and decided it wasn't for me. I lean towards success culture a bit, but need quality in my heros. This stoicism stuff started popping up like a year or two ago, and the stench of the bs was strong. I just assumed these were random noobs that didn't know what they were talking about, and were sprouting buzzwords and quotes they didn't understand. Had no idea there was a whole undercurrent, as I would swipe when the stench hit my nose. Any group focused primarily on external goal achievements is not a group following stoicism. One says the external is what matters, the other says the external doesn't matter. It's incompatible, and anyone else saying otherwise is lying. What I can do for humanity is what matters imo. If I perfected myself but helped no one else, I'm useless. If I saved the world at the expense of losing myself, I have succeeded to the highest degree. My philosophy is contradictory to Stoicism, and that's okay. I even have room to learn from it. Everyone needs their own philosophy. But lying and using one to cover up your bs should be a crime. Faith without works is dead. But these $toics have neither faith nor works, just buzzeords.

[@khaiphan9636]

I got into Stoicism on some weird timing, right when Andrew Tate became insanely famous, and dozens of AI-generated videos about Stoicism every day.

[@Threedome]

mike you're gonna be on netflix in a few years trust me, the quality is insane

[@Greatestfraud]

This is not in my control so whatever.

[@rudiiwii1]

Excellent compilation of what this philosophy has evolved into. Although I’m grateful it has been one way of growing the exposure of it, I’m disappointed in the twist it took, and how these different people have monetized off of it. If many of these were true to their word and stoic ways, they would’ve published all resources for free.

[@steamedyam]

Lol imagine thinking you're getting into philosophy and stoicism and your life coach tells you to watch happy Gilmore and find your happy place 😂😂

[@stevejacobs2764]

😂😂, I would know right there and then I was getting scammed.

[@bigboi9289]

Awesome documentary bro your insight is definitely needed 👌🏾

[@nathanielbables8652]

He should do this professionally

[@JusTakeItEazy]

There's an AI button to check my work before I press send to check my grammar, and I can even choose a different style. I'm half tempted to use it, but I'll just let it fix my poor grammar. I look forward to the video. I made this comment long because I saw everyone else's and wanted to make mine just as important. Yadda yadda yadda. 😅

[@ionutcristian9650]

Scams and Tate go hand in hand so you got that right so far.

[@BlackJesus8463]

Sue him then if you got scammed.

[@ionutcristian9650]

@@BlackJesus8463 I didn't. He openly said on interviews that he scammed people. He was proud of it.

[@Youtube9048wjd]

Well from a business pov hes just exploiting a loophole

[@ionutcristian9650]

@@KZbin9048wjd 🤦

[@ionutcristian9650]

​@@KZbin9048wjd🤦

[@synterr]

If you want to be great man, look into your heart, don't suppress feelings. Being sensitive, feeling emotions is a strenght, not weeknes. Loving a woman, beeing honest, beeing vulnerable in front of her is a strenght and great value, she will recognize that if she is true person as you are!

[@ajcics]

Stoicism flies in the face of modern psychology. It's a nice thought subject for intellectual curiosity but does more harm than good when implemented in the modern day

[@Mark-su8oe]

It became a conceptual sellout indeed. Hyped up by social media and writers who 'supposedly know' what it's all about. A shame for the school of philosophy.

[@RobertOgilvie]

Great video & very very needed. I have more and more Disagreeable (low trait Agreeableness) friends who've decided they're into Stoicism which seems to reinforce that: 1 somehow being less emotional will boost your motivation (it won't) 2 that Stoicism helps somehow is making them a better (which seems to be believing that Stoicism > achievement > better leader) Anyway thanks for the vid!

[@PinkOrangeOrangePink]

Stoicism in animal farm convinced the horse to let the pigs he sacrificed for tirelessly walk him into the glue factory.

[@pilgrimspromise1132]

The horse was a stoic??

[@quietprofessional4557]

No. The horse was an ignorant yet hard-working individual who valued his contribution to the new society. The horse did not question anything, just had blind faith in his ability and usefulness, trying to be a model citizen and inspire others.

[@realistic_delinquent]

@@pilgrimspromise1132 Boxer was the ideal communist: the useful idiot.

[@myself2noone]

I'm amazed at the way you're able to miss read both of these things.

[@TM-nb9zf]

I've seen, heard, and learned too much about Tate for him to be a true stoic. When I think of stoic celebrities I think of someone like Frank Ocean 😂

[@touch182]

I googled "Books I should read". Marcus Aurelius came up. Read Meditations. Liked it. that was 2019. 2 Years later noticed a lot of Stoic KZbin channels popping up. Clicked on a couple. My algorithm took a hard right. Haven't been back.

[@omarag6419]

Thank you so much! For me, Stoicism came as a bombshell once I read Meditations. I've been following stoic principles intuitively for many years, adapting to multiple traumatic events. I then started to learn more and only read Seneca's letters, Epictetus, and Marcus Aurelius's Meditations. I thought it was mostly an algorithm thing, and I've been bombarded by stoic clips and videos. I only follow some channels that read the audiobooks of those 3. I came across Ryan H, and I knew this guy may be spreading good stuff, but definitely not for me; I often feel like he hijacked Stoicism and linked himself to it as a figure; it is like a stolen valor, and learning more now about his background, the guy is a grifter and made it like a cult, I detach Stoicism from pop stoicism and stick to essential writings, Thank you again for this.

[@synterr]

"How to sell stoicism to unsecure man, by emotionless, cynic, "alpha-male", scammers" ;)

[@Cynique_savant]

Stoicism : the external chaos will not affect my internal peace