How the Book of Mormon Was Created A Naturalistic Explanation w/ John Dehlin

[@davidew7730]

Steven is the best and I really appreciate his honest non member view! He has such a true and honest heart!

[@TroyLeavitt]

As your friendly neighborhood Exmo, I think Steven did a good job here of laying out the Naturalistic "inspired bricolage" origin explanation for the Book of Mormon while still giving deference to the importance and impact of the book for believers.

[@gesuildamarocchini2973]

Steven is only saying his theory, he doesn't know the truth because Steven wasn't there to witness, it one hundred and ninety years, and all of this theory have been said before over and over and that's not the end ther be more theory like this😅

[@GStar-qd5oi]

Steven - I know this narrative that Joseph Smith was making things up feels satisfying to a degree. However, what if he was sincere, was a sincere 14 year old, that over time grew in wisdom and became a true prophet of God, who had the fruits of scripture he translated and a church he restored. A church that continues to spread across the world, doing good. He was sincere, and that is beautiful, His vision was real, and that is amazing, that is the Great News! God speaks to man, and you are apart of it. I love that Joseph Smith had the courage to face his critics doubters, persecutors and haters of his day. It took real courage. So Latter-Day Saints today need a measure of that courage to face our critics with love and compassion. We love you Steven! Hope this comment expresses that.

[@samsmom400]

A true prophet of God doesn't make false prophecies. He doesn't meet the critera set out by God in the Holy Bible. Joseph Smith made false claims. We know that by everything he wrote and rewrote and rewrote again. Mormons are not following Jesus. Mormons are not Christians, they're Mormons. And yes, there are many wonderful people who are Mormons, but that is not going to save them (or you) when you die. If you say Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior, but follow someone else (Smith, Hinkley, whoever), then you are not surrendered to Him. The only book you need is the Holy Bible. The only words you need to follow are those of Christ. If you aren't readiing the entire Bible verse by verse, chapter by chapter, book by book in its entirety year after year, you're in the wrong church.

[@JaredAnthony]

Although I disagree with many statements in this video, I respect that you are willing to entertain diverse points of view. That said, I'm curious how your theory accounts for the following: 1. The original three witnesses affirmed in their published testimony that they saw the plates "by the power of God, and not of man," and that "an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes... the plates, and the engravings thereon." These witnesses all upheld their testimony until their respective deaths despite extreme persecution. 2. Multiple stylometric analysis of The Book of Mormon (the same type of analysis validated and utilized by many historians to establish authorship for historical documents) show that the various narrators in The Book of Mormon have distinct writing styles that could not haven been written by a single author, and none of their writing styles are remotely similar to Joseph Smith's other writings.

[@JaredAnthony]

PS I'm from TCOJC Monongahela, I hope to meet you soon in Utah!

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Concerning 2.: You really have to go into the details of stylometry to see the problems. I recommend searching for "three voice hypothesis Book of Mormon", in which the author disproved all of this. The trick is that the different alleged authors in the book of Mormon have varying mixtures of sermon vs. narrative, and the model detects this as being from different authors, whereas when you manually label sermons and narrative and analyze them separately, you basically find that they are from the same author. So the only question remains: could Joseph imitate sermons and narrative stories? He certainly could, being exposed to the Second Great Awakening and a long family tradition of telling narrative stories.

[@TheSaintelias]

Shakespeare wrote content with characters with different voices. You need to research the witnesses more. They didn’t see with real eyes but with spiritual eyes. Why not get to actually see them? Regardless the anachronisms in the BoM prove it’s a modern creation. Before you say they are eliminating some anachronisms remember all you need is one. Just one proves a fraud. If JS used the same rock to make BoM as he did to earn money treasure digging which one is from god?

[@paulhallett1452]

Steven is so bright - I pray I get to meet him, John and Gerardo some day.

[@GregFessia]

Keep John Dehlin off your KZbin channel if you want our support. In a land of Lehi and Nephi, we don't need any Korihors or Nehors! You bombed out on this video.

[@danvogel6802]

Do you think MBR is the land of Lehi and Nephi? Stephen says he is the Switzerland of Mormon studies. Only a fool would try to control the content of any channel.

[@Irvingdector]

I agree!

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Didn't Holland deny you are doing shunning? Which one is it? Do you disagree with your leader on this?

[@TheSaintelias]

If only any of those people actually existed. The spirit will testify of truth so you have no problem hearing other ideas…oh wait we can have questions but shouldn’t find answers. Have faith til you believe.

[@ningenJMK]

Wow. You’re so fucking tolerant

[@jeepmap1]

It takes faith to believe Joseph created the book of mormon in his backyard, just as much as of a faith that Moroni brought it to him. Id rather go with the second scenario

[@mikelangley3919]

Steven, thank you for an amazing chat with John Dehlin. I am a return missionary and years ago we taught the vanilla version of what the church was all about because we knew no better. After all the pain of leaving the church and finally finding peace within myself. I feel I am living a full life and with God still in it. I have to admit also that darn, Joseph Smith, despite all his flaws and problems he was quite a character. I can see how you are fascinated by his life. I learned so much from your time with John and appreciate all you do in keeping us in the loop so to speak on early church history. I want to read about some of the things you already know. Thanks again.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Rough stone rolling is a good biography of Joseph Smith, discussing early church history in detail.

[@BaBumz]

I'm sorry you fell away from the Lords church

[@lesgraham7722]

Hi Mike, Remember John has an agenda, he is making money and lots of it, by people leaving the church and gospel of Jesus Christ. Steven doesnt have an agenda but is viewing these things from different viewpoints. But you may notice it is not always his personal beliefs, but looking at it from that viewpoint. Steven clearly believes that Joseph received some spiritual experience. John doesn't. One thing is for sure, no man could have created the Book of Mormon on their own and in less than 80 days: check out the Stick of Joseph.John with all his knowledge could not produce a book of such quality if he was given a pen and paper and left to write it with no computer.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

@@lesgraham7722 Lucy Mack's biography of Joseph (p 84) proves that he was already telling stories about native Americans in 1824. This means he could work out the basic narrative for five years. The narrative is pretty much chapter by chapter, so once the basic structure is there, he could easily dictate it chapter by chapter. The claimed complexity doesn't exist. E.g., he introduces a complex monetary system, but then, only one coin is used once in the next chapter (senine), so it seems the whole culture forgot about its own monetary system. It's nonsense.

[@samsmom400]

@@charlesmendeley9823 Joseph Smith, the Prophet, His Family and His Friends, a Study Based on Facts and Documents by Wilhelm Wyl (1838-1896).

[@paulblack1799]

Sorry, Steve, this is two days of your life that you can never get back. 😢 It will probably take two weeks before you start to feel the Spirit again like when you met Elder Anderson. ❤

[@robinnetto6794]

I completely enjoy Steven. I love his Spirit and his openness to all opinions and Faiths. He has walked a hard path and his heart is open. I may not always like who he interviews but I let that feeling help me become more compassionate. I am not a Bible person yet I am in Awe of this Universe and have no idea how it came to be yet here we are❤️

[@TheSaintelias]

The pre story creation idea JS may have used is how JK Rowlings and JR Tolkien created their worlds. It’s a great story creative process.

[@jeepmap1]

Great reasoning, good job, hope you base your life on ground like this, Tolkein was a seasoned writer, he started writing Lord Of R at age 40 and took him 12 years to accomplish. Good job bro

[@TheSaintelias]

@@jeepmap1 JS grew up telling stories and reading stories about the mound builders (local natives), lehis iron rod dream came from his father, most BoM sermons came from sermons JS heard growing up. Plus once you add all the parts copied from the Bible all you have is a little over 120 pages. So about an hour a day of looking at a stone to get what isn’t copied from Bible. Really easy to see how he can write it in the time he did. It’s just a matter of knowing all the historical facts over church’s imagined history. 👍 that’s it bro.

[@lesgraham7722]

@@TheSaintelias You try it if it is that easy. No computer, just pen and paper. Then have people check it repeatedly. The BoM has withstood the criticisms and debunking the acronyms, there are less and less as time goes on. I cant wait to see your book in less than 3 months. Good luck.

[@samsmom400]

​@@lesgraham7722People have checked it repeatedly and it has been completly debunked. Over and over. That's why thousands and thousands of people are leaving. It's a complete work of fiction.

[@samsmom400]

Stephen is no scholar, not even close. He doesn't have any biblical knowledge. I know PLENTY of people who've never been Mormon that totally understand it all. Stephen is just a confused guy who is trying to be liked by everyone. He may have grown up in a "christian" home, but he clearly was never a believer. That's not uncommon, it's not like mormonism where you are brainwashed into following a lifestyle. In christianity, you have a choice to have a relationship with Christ. You aren't FORCED into it. Everyone has a to decide for themselves if they want to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior, and he denied Christ. That's his decision. Christians don't browbeat another person into believing. It's what they will have to answer to when they die. He lived in a home where parents DO have a relationship with Christ, but that's not something that is handed down generation to generation. It's not like being Mormon. Stephen seems like a really nice guy that is trying to figure things out. He's just a lost soul, hopefully he - along with the others - will find his way.

[@andrewolsen2711]

I have a question for you - Was Joseph Smith visited by Moroni? And were Joseph and Oliver visited by John the Baptist to receive the priesthood to baptize and by Peter James and John to receive the higher priesthood? Because if you adopt this so called ‘naturalistic’ view of the origin of the Book of Mormon, you have to assume that Joseph and Oliver, 3 witnesses, 8 witnesses, Sydney Rigdon, and all others who saw angels and other manifestations were lying and conspiring. Then you have to figure out what motive would drive all of these people to lie and to conspire. That’s a lot of mental gymnastics. They didn’t get wealthy, they lost property, they were mocked and ridiculed for their beliefs and many of them lost their lives. And to what end? The Book of Mormon teaches about following Jesus Christ and living upright moral, faith filled lives. Never has so much conspiracy and lying gone into teaching people about morality, belief, and faithfulness. ‘Can a bad tree produce good fruit?’ Sorry, but this whole naturalistic explanation of the Book of Mormon isn’t worth the three hours it takes to watch this video. You should take a page from the Bible and start to learn wisdom - ‘the beginning of wisdom is the fear of God’. Try some humility and pray about the Book of Mormon and receive a witness from the spirit

[@samsmom400]

"Joseph Smith, the Proophet, His Faily and His Friends, a Study based on facts and documents" by Wilhelm Wyl (1838-1896).

[@TheSaintelias]

I’m only 20% in but I can see where all these “I don’t like this” comments are coming from. You’re laying out the facts of history that strain the if not destroy the truth claims of Mormons. This is coming from a life time member. Info that challenge our paradigm are hard.

[@VICTOR7oh2]

You can really feel the absents of the holy ghost here. The child like faith and spirit that the holy ghost brings is the most genuine, kind, loving, patient, Submissive, enduring all things that only comes about with the restoration of all things , the church of jesus christ of latter day saints.

[@Sharon-nf4gz]

Which of the three of you was most satisfied with this content. I like watching the eyes an expressions.

[@garyk4321]

Steven - We know you have felt the Spirit when reading the Book of Mormon. You need to get a mathematician to compute the probability of how Joseph Smith could have possibly systematized all of the things that were talked about in this discussion, all of which would be required for Joseph to know and do for him to even have a chance to fabricate the Book of Mormon. Based upon so many loosely coupled conjectures that were talked about -- there is no way that Joseph Smith could have conjured up not only the Book of Mormon but everything else he accomplished in his life. Even Occam's Razor would dictate the simple narrative that the Book of Mormon is a true book and it was brought forth by the Gift and Power of God. (I normally like your podcasts - but this one was disappointing to say the least and we could tell by the look in your eyes that you felt uncomfortable for purporting most of this absurdity)

[@TimmyTimbits-qj8is]

Would Joseph have been familier with Islamic traditions around Gabriel visiting Mohammed? The two stories end up having quite a few similarities.

[@dr33776]

Angel visitation is retrofitted history. The plates started as a treasure digging con. That’s why you read about a toad, wearing black clothes, a black horse, finding the plates with the peep stone etc. the addition of Moroni happened later to boost Joseph’s prophetic authority, same way they changed church history to remove references to the stone in the hat with the biblical term Urim and thumim.

[@Greg-McIver]

The Book of Mormon is exactly what it says it is. It's that simple.

[@mrkurdi22]

Can that be proven under scrutiny ?

[@Greg-McIver]

@@mrkurdi22 ​@mrkurdi22 , Yes, if you diligently seek, search and pray. It's not going to be handed to you. Seek and ye shall find. There is more proof being made available consistently but if you don't look, you wont see.

[@rockkiall]

As a former evangelical, as a doubting Christian/on the fence Agnostic, i hear some of the same reasoning from ex Mormons or soon to be x mormons and doubting excommunicated ones as myself. I think i heard the same phrases about Jesus and the resurrection. "If it were fake, then it is all a lie." And i sit right there thinking about that night after night. To add close to 200 years more of prophecies and books and schisms to basic Christianity and try and have faith, is incredible.

[@ApatiEktetheimenos]

Jesus was God incarnate and seeks a personal, one-on-One relationship to His own who come to Him in truth, in spirit, in repentance for their sins and trespasses, and when it is genuine, He is Faithful and will prove to you Himself that He is the Lord, He is God, He loves you and makes you His own. But religious ideas, are as weird as mankind! It is all about knowing the right Person, it is never about ceremony and cult memberships. The LDS is occult. I pray you simply know the Person called Jesus Who was God Himself in the flesh of a man, what a price to pay so we could be redeemed!

[@charlesmendeley9823]

The bigger issue is that modern scholarship, e.g. historical criticism, had led to a more mature interpretation of the bible. But this modern interpretation is completely incompatible with the book of Mormon, as was mentioned by Steven. The five books of Moses were not finished before the Babylonian captivity, and neither were the later chapters of Isaiah finished. Thus implies that Joseph, having an outdated literalist understanding of the Scriptures, could produce consistent content only with respect to this paradigm.

[@ApatiEktetheimenos]

@@charlesmendeley9823 Have you ever heard of Red Herrings as a Legal term in a Court of Law, Charles? WHO CARES who wrote what when. The CORE issue on Trial, is the LDS claim that God is a man and their occult polytheism. Everything else does not matter. Smith was a fraud and the LDS occult cult, is incredibly fraudulent

[@samsmom400]

There's no such thing as a "doubting Christian/on the fence Agnostic". Either Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior or He isn't. It's ok to be searching, but you are not a believer or saved by Christ. The best thing you can do is pray and read your Bible. Ask God your questions and search them out in sscripture. Best wishes.

[@mrjoshua2791]

It's kinda funny watching people trying sooo hard sooo hard to deconstruct what is simply true. Plain and simple....

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Except it isn't.

[@mrjoshua2791]

@@charlesmendeley9823 did someone say something???

[@samsmom400]

Most people in the Bible were Jews of midddle eastern origin. The few people in the Bible form the region we now call Europe may have had light-colored skin and would be considered white today, but they weren not white in their day. In the beginning of recorded history, humans have always thought in terms of tribes or nations., but the idea of race is a fairly new concept. Nations or tribes were categorized in various ways in the ancient world, as reflected in the Bible, but skin color was not one of them. It's not that the Bible never notes that some nations had darker skin than others, but that is an exceedingly rare thing for the writers of scripture to mention. It just wasn't considered a relevant factor for identifying people groups. While slavery had been around from the beginning of recorded time, it was not previously based on skin color. slaves were people conquered in war or people who had fallen on hard economic times. Slavery was typically not a lifelong or hereditary status. It was an ugly reality, but not as evil as it became when it got tied to the mytho of race. The idea that people of certain skin colors were superior or could legitimately own and control people of other colors was unknown in the days of the Bible. Early in US history, neither Jewish, Irish, nor Italian people were considered to be white, but now they typically are. Seventy percent of Christians globally are not white. The cross should be the end of all claims to the superiority of any people groups.

[@jameswebster5405]

There are two books that are exactly the kind of works you say you seek, enumerating the timeline of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and including thousands of footnotes with original sources. "A Man That Can Translate" and "By Means of The Urim & Thummim", by Jonathan Neville and James Lucas. I find it nonsensical that critics of Joseph Smith ascribe to him superhuman genius on the one hand and the ignorance and crudeness of an uneducated frontiersman on the other. I was also disappointed that you ignored the accounts of witnesses who saw and handled the plates, and the very fine and curious engravings. There were many incidental witnesses (like Josiah Stowell whom you referenced) starting from the time Joseph received the plates through the end of the translation. These encounters with the physical plates would suppose that Joseph would have had to prepare them early on in the process, and I think you are proposing that in the compressed time frame of translation Joseph made multiple sets of plates with improvements in the quality. Could Joseph really produce such an object in the crude circumstances in which he lived, let alone surreptitiously, let alone the massive amount of time it would have taken just to engrave the strange characters on the plates, all for the purpose of showing them briefly to two groups of official witnesses. I think you fail to account for the existence of the physical object before we even approach the more relevant topic of the subject matter. The idea that Joseph just conjured up a 500-page narrative of the complexity that is the Book of Mormon defies both common reason and the descriptions of the witnesses to the process. To be able to formulate such a narrative totally in his mind with no notes or script to reference during dictation sessions defies logic, and the process could not be reproduced by any human being.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

I have heard this argument again and again. The false idea is that all critics are the same, and all critics sit at one table creating a consistent argument. Thus does not happen. John Dehlin never sat with Alexander Campbell at a roundtable, discussing an optimal strategy to refute Mormonism. Thus, their arguments might differ.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

There are hundreds of complex novels. Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Faust, any of Shakespeare's works. Creating oral narratives without written notes was fine for centuries, yeah even millennia, and as Steven mentioned, telling stories was practiced by Joseph throughout his childhood.

[@MyTJ13]

AMEN!!! (A thousand times.) Thank for speaking to plain truth, and equally... LOGIC!

[@jeffwhipple2658]

Not to mention the lost 116 pages, which according to Don Bradley, was probably much more than our idea of 116 pages.

[@samsmom400]

The Bible isn't looking for anyone to explain what happened to the indians. The Bible is to inform us about God. God's laws and His teachings. It's His plan of salvation. That's all.

[@NCroots]

Sorry to be an anthropological geneticist nerd, but I just wanted to point out that DNA has been extracted from the remains of a community in Northern Israel (Galilee area) dating from the Late Chalcolithic period which carried the genes for fair-skin & blue eyes. These individuals came into the Levant from the northwest. While the community was believed to have been replaced by later waves of migrants, it is possible that Jesus really could have been a fair-skinned, blue-eyed blonde-- not highly probable, but entirely possible.

[@sherigraham3873]

In watching the aftermath of the terrible Hamas attack on Israel in October, some Jews had lighter hair and most have lighter skin than the Arab nations. My observation.

[@samsmom400]

Jesus was a Jew and likely inherited common Semitic traits from his mother (Hebrews 7:14). It's unlikely that his features were especially distinctive. On one occasion he was able to travel in secret from Galilee to Jerusalem without being recognized. (John 7:10, 11) and he apparently didn't stand out even among his closest disciples. recall that Judas Iscariot had to identify Jesus to the armed crowd that arrested him (Matthew 26:47-49).

[@samsmom400]

22:30 Stephen stated that one of David's son was fair and I believe he said that he had blonde hair and that it's in scripture. "His name escapes me" Stephen stated. There's no such reference in the Bible. None.

[@MormonBookReviews]

You are correct! The son was Absalom and he was portrayed as having blond hair in medieval art. I believe one of the children's Bibles I grew up reading portrayed him with blond hair. It was after this episode aired on Mormon Stories that I realized my mistake.

[@samsmom400]

@@MormonBookReviews I made a similar mistake about Moses. I watched the movie TEN COMMANDMENTS and I corrected someone in a Bible Study group I was visiting that Moses didn't stutter. They asked me how I knew and I told them I watched the movie. Boy, did I get an education! At that point of my life I claimed to be a Christian, but I wasn't. I didn't even know that we were supposed to read the Bible. Anything that media puts out is not to be trusted. I look in the Bible, if it's not there (like blonde hair), leave it alone. There's a reason someone wants people to believe Absalam had blonde hair. It's highly unlikely. That's interesting about how you came to think that! Thanks for sharing. Have a good day.

[@joycegrover1146]

Can’t stop talking here! I have purchased a copy of the first ever Bk of Mormon! Have you ! You need to you know!

[@charlesmendeley9823]

That's good. The first edition of the book of Mormon was pretty much trinitarian. Only with time did Joseph develop the alternative model of the godhead, and later even the chain of Gods as described in the king Follett discourse. This also shows that the first vision, currently used in the standardized narrative, was backdated and retrofit. Another proof is that you wouldn't use "the vision" for the three degrees of glory if "the first vision" is already a famous narrative circling around.

[@samsmom400]

​@@charlesmendeley9823Joseph's first vision was actually of a pirate telling him about the plates, he later spun the tale into other versions. "Joseph Smith, the Prophet, His family and His Friends, a Study Based on Facts and Documents" by Wilhelm Wyl (1838-1896) p. 80

[@Irvingdector]

I usually love your content. No this time. Sorry.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Can you elaborate why?

[@nolavee3477]

I’m interested which type of content you’d prefer and why this episode resulted in your comment, if you care to share. TIA

[@MyTJ13]

Wow! That seems like it took a LOT of effort and assumption to dismiss who Joseph Smith was. Pretty disappointing to see Steven in this role. I had enjoyed his podcast in the past.

[@MormonBookReviews]

This is a naturalistic explanation of the BoM. If there is no God, how can its creation be explained. That is the premise of my argument.

[@samsmom400]

​@@MormonBookReviewsWhen you look at a painting, do you think it painted itself? Have you ever looked at a building and decided that it built itself? There is a God and creation is proof of that. It's scientifically impossible for nothing to create something.

[@joycegrover1146]

You are missing Nephi Talking of 2 records all along! Records that were written throughout their history at same time.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

What do you mean by "all along"? The whole current text postdates the loss of the 116 pages. Joseph could and in fact did add this narrative after the 116 pages were lost.

[@joycegrover1146]

I understand the layout of the book how the last became the first idea--- but yes right there in the telling doesn't Nephi mention more than once why 2 records are kept??? The why is talked about by Nephi and also by Mormon! Read first 5 verses or so of 1 Nephi chap 19! Joseph translated 116 pages from one set of plates. That gets misplaced! He then finishes translating those plates when he gets them back then tells the first of the story from the (small plates)! 2 records covering their journey out of Jerusalem! The record tells us that Nephi was inspired to make this " other" record and Mormon was inspired to include it!!!! Now were there LG and small plates in the hill cumorah? Think not but they were included by Mormon on the plates he made from all the sources he had available! Like he did with the record of the jareditis! It was written in his abridgement-not a separate set of plates! Words of Mormon makes this all very clear! Now I understand you can and will come up with your idea of all this and that's ok! In your mind this whole story is a product of Joseph Smiths imagination

[@AAVIATOR481]

Been trying to catch Steve at the local pub (WH) to buy him dinner! This channel is very thoughtful!

[@MormonBookReviews]

I'll be there tonight!

[@AAVIATOR481]

@@MormonBookReviews what time? I’ll head up!

[@MormonBookReviews]

@@AAVIATOR481 15 minutes

[@AAVIATOR481]

@@MormonBookReviews On my way!

[@samsmom400]

18:40 There was no curse on Ham. So, just make note of that. Stephen is gettiing it all wrong. GEN 9:22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. Then when Noah awoke v.25 So he said, "Cursed be CANAAN [the son of Ham}' a servant of servants He shall be to his brothers." [Deut 27:19]. The curse has NOTHING to do with skin color and the curse was on the SON of Ham. God made all races and they are equal in His eyes. Skin color comes from pigmentation. That's it. To attribute mans skin color to God cursing someone is ludicrous. Mormonism does that. So, why was Canaan cursed? NOT HAM. One possible explanation is that the evil tendency which was manifested in Ham was even more pronounced in Canaan. the curse was thus a prophecy of his immoral conduct and its fitting punishment. Another explanation is that Canaan himself committed some vulgar act against his grandfathher, and that Noah later became aware of it. It may be that verse 24 refers to Canaan as Noah's YOUNGEST GRANDSON, rather than to Ham as his YOUNGER SON. In the Bible, "son" often means "grandson" or other descendent. In this event, Canaan was not cursed for his father's sin, but for his own. Yet another possibiity is that God's grace allowed Noah to curse only a small segment of Ham's descendants and not a possible third of the human race.

[@klonkillee5615]

Say Cumorah backwards. Ah Mor Cu equals America.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

When you spell Eve backwards, it's exactly the same. Thus only works in English by the way, in German it's "Eva", which becomes "Ave", which means "hail", as in "hail Mary". Btw. "Mary" becomes "Yram", in case you didn't know.

[@harambeboy]

Thank you for sparing us the stupid hats

[@lesgraham7722]

Herardo: if you think it is easy to re write 116 pages of manuscript, why do you try it and show us. Do a book with the number of pages the Book of Mormon has plus an extra 116 pages of manuscript, which would be like an extra 300 sized BoM pages, and Do it in less than 80 days. Then tell me how easy it is. Then you can be critiqued. I bet you would not stand up to that.

[@lesgraham7722]

Sorry to hear that Jen feels upset about her not knowing various things. Steven Piner a non Mormon found out. A lot of people knew them and we still are active in the church.

[@samsmom400]

The Bible was never written to give a "world view" of what was going on in the world! I'm sorry Stephen isn't making any sense. The Bible is all about God and who He is and the plan of salvation.

[@samsmom400]

20:04 Stephen is really messed up. Most of the bible is centered in the Middle East because that's where it all began and the majority of the people in the Bible were of Jewish descent. They were not "white". Jesus isn't white. Jesus was a Jew. Jews had dark hair, dark skin, and brown eyes. The earliest Christians were mostly Jews. The Apostles were Jewish. And to be clear, while Jesus was Jewish, He went out of His way to teach everyone. All the Apostles were taught that.

[@johnsondrapery]

Not your best content!

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Why not?

[@hlnbee]

I really enjoyed the program.

[@joycegrover1146]

Someone else may be believing their own stories!! Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[@MormonBookReviews]

I think it's about time I interview you!

[@lesgraham7722]

I bet all of them combined could not have created a book that has stood the test of time. You are basically saying that Joseph Smith's intelligence was far superior to anyone of his time and our time. It was more in the 70's days due to his time of NOT having the gift. You would need to have more imagination than him to create a beautiful, and testable book that still cannot be discredited.

[@robinnetto6794]

But it is discredited. The beautiful stories and words were taken from other people and the Bible about events that happened before they ever came into existence. It is difficult to let go of one’s belief in the BOM if you are relying ona feeling , BUT if you study it from something besides the SS manual you will see things the church would have you not see.

[@lesgraham7722]

John, why did he have to re-write the 116 pages? If he had re-written it would that have convinced you to give up your lucrative job and return back to the fold.

[@lesgraham7722]

John did you do a PHD. How long did it take you to study for that to get thorough knowledge of your subject?

[@lesgraham7722]

If you are saying it is not a high quality original document, then that contradicts the fact that he could create such a document in such a short time. Make up your minds.

[@nolavee3477]

The haters showed up here, in the comments. Unbelievable. Constructive criticism is probably a good thing, just bashing John, seems petty.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

John has survived, and will survive, haters in the comment section. 😇

[@robbiefl58]

Another motivation for Joseph's pious fraud may have been to save his parents' marriage which was deeply troubled because of their deep religious differences and conflicts.

[@TheSaintelias]

Interesting. I have not heard about that. We do crazy things for the ones we love. It is more logical that frogs turning into men to punch JS to keep him from touching the golden plates.

[@GStar-qd5oi]

His fraud? But he told the truth. He saw God the Father and Jesus Christ. He restored truths for us all to enjoy. Read The Book of Mormon and pray with a sincere heart as you read, see if it opens your eyes and heart to beautiful truths about the love God has for His children and the role of Jesus Christ as our Savior. Just read as a child, with a sincere heart. It's an awesome witness of Jesus Christ, as are the current apostles and prophets. Study, really study, humble yourself, and you will see miracles in your life.

[@TheSaintelias]

@@GStar-qd5oi I appreciate your feelings about JS and the church. I am not sure about this “for the parents” idea. I too have “studied” / read the scriptures and prayed about them. My feelings made me spend two years on a mission and be a member of the church. Many decades later after reading fact based history and using more than my feelings I came to another realization. Religion requires faith but it shouldn’t require ignoring fact. Everything you said about JS and the BoM is said by a member of every religion. I do hope the church brings you peace and value in your life. We all deserve that.

[@sherigraham3873]

That's a stretch of herculean imagination. Simple, the book of Mormons validity will only be found by sincere seekers who give it a chance. Not cynics who devise any story to undermine and discount. Seriously.

[@TheSaintelias]

@@sherigraham3873 yes god keeps his simple truths mysterious so as to trick all but only those that can feel what is correct. The devil tricks and god remains barely distinct form one’s own internal thoughts.

[@TheSaintelias]

Much modern Christian doctrine isn’t actually in the scriptures.

[@lesgraham7722]

John, if you found out the church was true, would it be enough to take you away from the fortune you are making of disheartened LDS members?

[@samsmom400]

In your description you say that Stephen is "evangelical", he is NOT! an evangelical Christian believes the Bible is TRUE, 100%! Anyone who claims to be a "Christian" and doesn't believe that the Bible is the perfect Word of God, is NOT a Christian. They've made up some religion, but they are not followers of Christ. Christ is not their Savior. If you believe in any other book other than the Bible, you are NOT a Christian.

[@Lightandtruth76]

John Dehlin 😀😀😀

[@Lightandtruth76]

Guys Joseph was the prophet of the restoration and I think this is a waste of time. The Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done. Joseph Smith Jr.