How The Trace ACTUALLY Works In Harry Potter

[@Jay-ate-a-bug]

One small problem: On the Night Harry leaves the Dursley's, Mad-Eye informs Harry that he has the Trace on him still, and yet tells everyone that they have to use non-magical means to get Harry to safety. Why? If he is with "Adult-Wizards" then the Trace won't activate if they disparate with Harry in tow , according to this theory. I get that the Trace is more of a burden to Harry until he turns 17; a plot device used by the Death Eaters to limit Harry's movements, but if this theory held true it wouldn't matter what magical means were used to transport him as long as an adult Witch or Wizard was present. Personally, I don't know why Harry didn't simply use his invisibility cloak (The Deathly Hallow) to take a stroll through the countryside until he was safe enough to mount his broom and fly anywhere he wished.

[@XanderLakefield]

Perhaps they can manually trace at any time it's just the automatic detection that is not set off in the presence of an adult.

[@Jay-ate-a-bug]

@@XanderLakefield Manually tracing wouldn't work very well considering you would have to be tracing when an underage Witch or Wizard was actually using Magic. Good luck guessing when that is. Most of this is speculation anyway, but in what form does the Trace Alert take? Does a Bell ring? Is an underage use of magic written upon a scroll by a magic quill? Does a Crystal Ball replay the infraction for a Ministry Official? I could make this stuff up all day.

[@XanderLakefield]

@@Jay-ate-a-bug They would have had someone actively monitoring Harry, the good guys at the ministry for his protection, the bad ones to inform Voldemort.

[@Jay-ate-a-bug]

@@XanderLakefield I guess, if that is even possible to do. We don't know though, do we?

[@Gr3nadgr3gory]

Besides, you're telling me not one of the order has the ability to remove the trace?

[@huntercoleherr]

I always assumed the Trace is a strong but fairly simple spell. Think of parental software on a computer. Sophisticated, but not terribly difficult for a determined child to circumvent.

[@lonelyprince0]

I think it's likely that the trace was placed upon the young wizards when they were handed the flier regarding the use of underage magic outside of school according to Fred and George, this is passed out every year and is likely that upon contact this places a charm on the students that either fortify existing traces for another year or place the trace on them

[@KibbyRose]

15:37 the only theory that I differ with is that I think the trace is placed on them by the hat when they’re sorted into the house. Therefore, the intention of the spell that’s cast can actually be detected.

[@DinosaurNick]

If that's so why did he almost get expelled for saving a muggle from a dementor? He dint even reveal magic to a muggle as the muggle in question already knows he's a wizard since they're family

[@adventurekitty101]

@@DinosaurNickBecause Fudge(technically Umbridge as well since she sent the Dementors) was setting Harry up due to his denial of Voldemort returning. He didn’t care about Harry’s intention with the spell.

[@KristinSLuce]

This is the *only* theory I have seen/read or thought of that makes sense! The incident with Dobby was an exception, meaning that it would set off the trace and the Ministry would see that it did not come from Harry, yet there were no other wizards nearby-thus it was worth investigating. A hover charm could be innocuous or it could be used to hit someone (like with the troll), thus, again, worth investigating. They tend to disregard other magical creatures, so would assume it was Harry. Also, magic can be done without a wand at times, so Harry would have to be the "culprit" even without using a wand. The part about Morfin being with Riddle when he kills his father and grandparents is BRILLIANT! I was always bothered that the trace could track the where, when and what but not the "who." But this makes so much more sense. You should send this to SuperCarlin Brothers. Thanks for this!

[@CassandraMars]

Your comment just made my day! Thank you! I’m a huge fan of Super Carlin Brothers. It would be a dream to get my channel big enough that maybe one day I could be a J vs Ben trivia guest. This was a really fun theory to think about. The trace has always bothered me and I really wanted to dig into a way to make it make sense.

[@WardenWolf]

It's also the concept of "Signal to noise ratio". If you've got a ton of wizards in close proximity, you can't tell who did it. And there's the simple fact that magical parents would obviously be allowed to provide some instruction to their children.

[@superraegun2649]

SCB already made a video about the trace which reaches that conclusion. The only problem they have is how Tom Riddle was able to use the killing curse without setting off the trace, sure, he implanted fake memories in his uncle, but they would still have known he was around, but don't question him. They conclude that he just figured out how to disable the trace.

[@EveryoneWhoUsesThisTV]

The presence of an adult wizard will counter the presence of a muggle or the magic happening in a muggle area. 👍 Magical communities don't count, kids can do magic in Hogsmeade and on the Hogwarts Express... So underage magic at the Burrow or Grimmauld Place doesn't count either, only public or muggle areas. Magic items clearly don't count, you can scare a muggle with your invisibility cloak, just don't cast any charms! :) I agree 100% that Morfin was involved in the Riddle murders, he may remember murdering them so clearly because he was looking over Tom's shoulder.

[@CassandraMars]

Thank you so much for watching! This was a fun rabbit hole to explore.

[@FatLittleButterfly]

Maybe Tom just figured out a way to block the trace from triggering. Wouldnt be too far a stretch

[@kerim.peardon5551]

I always assumed it was placed on an area wherein a Muggle-born student (or someone like Harry, who lives with Muggles) lives. When one of the Weasleys explained it, it sounded like children of wizarding families did not have it, because their parents were expected to keep them in line. If the Trace exists within so many blocks of No. 4 Privet Drive, then it would explain the graveyard issue and even explain how Tom was able to do things to the other orphans when they were away from the orphanage; neither place was near their respective homes. And it definitely seems to only work only with magical action. The car and the toffee are both magical items, but they they're not an action in and of themselves. (I.e. they're passive magic, not active magic. Think about Harry's Monster Book of Monsters that was crawling around his room; that is another item which is passively magical (as was the Sneakoscope).) When Tonks, et al are at Harry's house, either the Trace doesn't activate because the presence of adult wizards deactivates the Trace, as proposed, or it was ignored because the Ministry knew people were going there to pick up Harry.

[@hydraelectricblue]

Actually, yeah, this makes a lot more sense because the one thing that’s not necessarily being accounted for here is that Harry’s in a little bit of an unusual situation being that he’s living with Muggles and we also have to remember there are other protections that were put on the house by Dumbledore, even though I don’t necessarily think that Dumbledorewould mean for the trace to be used in the way it was in book 5. I do think it’s a possibility that Harry’s house in particular we know already has extra protections on it because of you know Petunia remember my last etc.. While, I’m aware that there are other wizards who are living with Muggles specifically the problem is at it always is, that once again the story is kind of mostly told from Harry’s point of view (third person omniscient) and what’s going on with Harry I mean. Yes, it’s true we don’t hear Hermione mention the trace at all as far as I can remember off the top of my head , it’s primarily Ron and Ron is in a different situation than Harry and I believe that Rowling put that in for that specific contrast to give you know some hints that Harry situation is in fact unusual.

[@zephodb]

I always felt 'the trace' would go on when you got the wand, like there was a charm on every Olivander wand that triggered and set it on the person as it picked someone successfully, thus exaggerating the visuals.

[@DinosaurNick]

Makes senss that the magic from the wand engulfing harry would be the trace and or maybe a binding spell to show it chooses him

[@zephodb]

@@DinosaurNick The whole 'sign you have entered the wizarding world' sort of deal. Almost like a pact you're a Wizard now. :)

[@WilliamWizer]

the problem I see is that Tom Riddle freely used wandless magic while being underage. you can be sure he didn't gave sh*t about using wandless magic after he entered hogwarts. there's also a small point that's canon. harry being told that he can't do magic when they are preparing to leave his "home" using the seven potter plan. being surrounded by adult wizards, he would be able to use magic freely but it's explicitly stated that he can't due to the trace. the trace is also one of the reasons they have to wait to go horcrux hunting. harry is underage. truth to be told. there are very few cases of wandless magic being detected. as far as I recall, only two. and they can be, more or less, explained. 1) dobby was able to fake harry's wand signature so the ministry would register it as harry using his wand. during harry's trial, on fifth year, it's dumbledore the one that points the magic was done by a house elf that is now working at hogwards. that seems to be enough proof of harry's innocence even if harry himself could had used his wand in front of a house elf. 2) harry inflating aunt marge. I believe that magic wasn't detected by the trace. what the ministry detected was a muggle that had been inflated. we know that the ministry is aware of magic performed on muggle areas so they can undo things like pranksters charming muggle items to act in magical ways. I don't remember any other case of wandless magic being detected. now the cases were wand magic was ignored/undetected. I see it this way. the trace is ignored for students that are attending hogwarts during the school year. this is why you can perform magic on the hogwarts express and why students need to travel using the express even if they live closer to hogwarts. just imagine if a student lives near hogsmeade but has to travel to london to board the hogwarts express. makes no sense. UNLESS you need the students to be at the express for some reason. namely "this underage is attending hogwarts so the trace should be ignored until end of school year" this gets rid of any ignored use of wand magic except for two cases. when harry's wand was used at the triwizard and when harry used it during the seven potter incident. in the first, it was "proven" that harry's wand was in the hands of a house-elf so he didn't cast the death mark (which also would be completely stupid) and the latest was done when the ministry was already under death eater control so there was no point in doing sh*t about it. that being said. the trace still doesn't makes that much sense. what happens if two underage are together but without adult supervision? how do they detect which underage did it? imagine you live on a place where several magical families live, each with their own underage children. if an underage uses magic out of a house where there's no adult, the trace would activate for me and the children of that house. how could they find who did it? sincerely, the trace is pure BS. there's no need for it since magic around muggles is detected no matter if it's adult/underage magic. it's a nice plot device to ensure harry doesn't scare the sh*t out of the dursley but doesn't go beyond that. by the way. would the trace detect if I brew a potion? because I'm sure there's plenty potions harry could had used to spike the dursley's food. the forgetfulness potion would be a great candidate. the laxative potion would also be nice. while not canon in the books, or movies, Gregory's Unctuous Unction would be the best thing to spike their food. would that activate the trace? either way. I wonder why Harry never used them.

[@BoKnowsDiddly]

It could also be put on the student by the sorting hat.

[@proclarushtaonasat]

but isnt the hat way older than the trace? i dont think, they would retroactively meddle with an ancient artifact. the random chamber from the first book would also work just as well,

[@BoKnowsDiddly]

@all they would need to do is add a spell that tags each child when the put it on. It’s not like they would be damaging the hat. Then again, neither of these theories account for homeschooled kids or kids that went somewhere other than Hogwart’s. Just because you lived in the UK doesn’t mean you attended.

[@CassandraMars]

This is a common theory I’ve heard, but the hat being older than the trace and the fact it gets lit on fire makes me think it wasn’t on the hat and if it was the hat would have gotten damaged and no longer work. Plus there’s home schooled witches and wizards too.

[@BoKnowsDiddly]

@@CassandraMars I mentioned the homeschooled ones and the ones at other schools in one of my replies. It kind of disproves the idea of the trace being put on them in the room before going in for the sorting as well.

[@CassandraMars]

Yeah there would have to be a fail safe for home schooled students. I think I mentioned in the video after have a Ministry employee casting one off trace charms on those who don’t attend Hogwarts. It could be the room, the hat, the book of admittance, the boats, or several other possibilities. One thing I love about the Trace is that it’s confusing. It’s a fun conversation to dive into with a group of Harry Potter fans.

[@SuperBiologe]

interesting theory, but I would argue that the trace is placed upon the student by the sorting hat.

[@proclarushtaonasat]

but the sorting hat predates the statute of secrecy

[@charlesbrentner4611]

That was my thought as well. That would make certain that the trace was placed on each individual student so that they could be identified later.

[@Sobotkap]

@@proclarushtaonasat so? What makes you think they couldn't add some enchantment on the hat to automatically give out traces during sorting? :)

[@RiseeRee]

But not every kid goes to school, parents had the option to educate them at home. During Tom’s regime, they made it mandatory to attend Hogwarts.

[@Sobotkap]

@@RiseeRee And placing traces in school, either by bunching them up in a small room or using a sorting hat for it, is simply the fastest and easiest way to do it. If someone is homeschooled, then the trace can be applied elsewhere..

[@RiseeRee]

Ron actually explains right away that flying the car didn’t count because they didn’t enchant the car. It’s always funny to me when Harry finds out how the trace works.

[@charlesbrentner4611]

@@RiseeRee and also shows that muggle borns are more likely to get a letter than a child in a Half-Blood or pureblood household. Which makes sense too in a way since half bloods and purebloods are more likely to have someone who can sort out magical accidents.

[@RoTTRavVe]

i agree with this theory it makes a lot of sense and i am having a hard time coming up with any counter points against it. Also my opinion on when the trace is placed on the witch or wizard is when the sorting hat is placed upon them. As for other schools we do not know what they do with their first years ,but logically speaking if this is how the trace works it wouldn't be a stretch to assume they have some form of acceptance ceremony which the students interact with an object or an object is placed on them which applies the trace. An example would be a ceremony like a knighting ceremony the act of the sword touching the shoulders could be enough to place the trace upon them.

[@CassandraMars]

This is a good theory! If it’s the hat I wonder if they would need to replace the trace charm on the hat after it got lit on fire.

[@bryandoyle765]

The charm could be placed at the time they were sold their wand. Wandless magic would be dismissed, as with aunt marge, while wanded magic would be a more serious offense. The hover charm would qualify as a wanded spell because it normally is, but the ministry doesn’t recognize the presence of a house elf as Voldemort’s spells don’t take them into account either. They know a wanded spell was cast without any substantive evidence to eliminate Harry as the caster. Being the first offense, they didn’t send an officer to cast priori encantatum to verify that he hasn’t cast all holiday. The world cup would be dismissed as exigent casting. The dark mark however required immediate intervention and was not identified by trace but by the mark’s visible location. Crouch Jr would have already inhibited the trace’s activation. The port key is like a 3d printed gun, the government only knows it exists if they find it or you tell them about it. Hence why fudge was mad about the unregistered statue head port key being made right in front of him. The graveyard was 1. in the presence of many grown wizards and 2. prepared by Voldemort. Yes, the patronus, skip. Grimold place, covered as a wizarding dwelling, with supervision, under various charms, unplotted… The flight of the seven potters: at this point, as with the patronus, the government was politically motivated to pursue harry by any measure available. Basically putting him under house arrest with burdensome restrictions on port keys, apparition, floo flames, etc. as moody said, they would use any excuse to take him into “protective custody.” Not until exigency overruled the prohibition could he cast safely.

[@Jedda678]

The trace is not placed upon the witch or wizard at Hogwarts. Remember not every witch or wizard goes to hogwarts. While we cannot ascertain if other countries implement it, or if the trace is even administered when the witch or wizard even enters education i believe the best theory is: The trace is placed upon the witch or wizard when they receive their first wand. While it isnt attached to the wizard's wand specifically it makes the most sense that a new and upcoming witch or wizard would have it applied then. You just handed them essentially a loaded gun. Something they can channel their magic through. The ministry also expects the parents to discipline their children when using magic at home, thus fresh 11 year olds would not trigger the trace. Also at hogwarts there is too much magic going on in the corridors and grounds the trace cant properly detect the student using a spell. Theres also Hogsmede. So more than likely the spell is placed upon them when they finally have a wand choose them. Likely forming a contract that only ends when the witch or wizard turns 17 or gets expelled and has their wand snapped. Otherwise how would a young Hagrid been able to keep part of his wand in his umbrella? They surely would have detected him using magic after he was expelled and known for breaking their laws (i mean he was falsely charged but still) he wasnt a qualified wizard and he clearly still was able to perform magic. I would think the Ministry would keep an eye out for anyone with their wand snapped as punishment.

[@seamusfinnegan1164]

If the trace is a dedicated charm spell it might be possible to dispell the trace, given the amount of forbidden learning Tom got up too he might have learned a counterspell to the trace, and potentially learn how to cast the trace back on himself if necessary.

[@hydraelectricblue]

Well, I think that this is likely and you’ve made excellent observations, especially about the idea of being within proximity of an adult wizard. That for sure I think is a rule we can establish that Rowling had in mind. The only issue I have with this video is at the end where you theorized how the trace is activated onto wizards. I think we’re leaving out a very big part of the Wizarding world, and that we know that there are wizards from other countries and Rowling doesn’t expressly mention the trace and how it functions for wizards within other countries. I would have to imagine that in these particular countries it wouldn’t function wildly different than in Britain. I just want to point out that the Quidditch World Cup involved wizards from other countries as well. Perhaps there might be most of the information we need in the Goblet of Fire. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s where Rowling sort of fleshes out and also cements her rules surrounding underrage use of magic. Because really the Goblet of Fire is the book that is full of revelations concerning how the ministry functions, up to this point we really don’t have an introduction to concepts such as Department of Magical Games and Sports. That is also the book where Ron discusses in more depth what his father does in the ministry. So I really think the answer we are looking for is most definitely in book 4. Thank you for your thought-provoking video I love it when people interact with the text and come up with new insight and theories

[@fruitfulconnoisseur]

Even if they can't tell who used the magic it lets the know that that particular underage which are wizard was in that location when magic was used and what magic was used

[@TaoistYang]

This would also explain how the Ministry knows the magic was 'in the presence of a muggle.' 🙂 Perhaps the Ministry also has a book recording the names of wizard children (similar to Hogwarts) that, as a result, initiates & dispels the trace (rather than actual wizard legwork.)

[@fruitfulconnoisseur]

During the incident was Cedric diggory it would show where he is when he used magic and what magic he used along with other unknown magic but they would ignore it because he should be at school

[@XanderLakefield]

If the trace activated when the knight bus was summoned that would mean by your theory Sirius in dog form didn't count as a wizard since he was just across the road.

[@StephenMatrese]

Even if they had the trace as a young child, they could just ignore a 9 year old doing accidental magic and not send an owl.

[@erictaylor5462]

I like that. I have something I have wondered about: How does the Hogwarts Express work? It seems to be a muggle train magically modified, rather than a magically created train. In either case the train clearly operates on rails, are these railroads independent of the British rail system, or are they a part of it? It makes no sense for it to operate on it's own system, as it would need to interact with muggles roads, and having unofficial level crossings would be noticed. It also operates from a muggle train station, King's Cross. For these reasons I think the Hogwarts Express uses the British Railways system. This means that it would need to be dispatched from a central location so as not to interfere with muggle trains. It would be a simple thing to install a wizard in the dispatching center where he dispatches muggle trains most of the time, adding in the Hogwarts Express when it is needed. Hell, they don't even need that much. They only need the ability to dispatch the train when needed.

[@pikel-sama]

If they had the trace put on them at the same time, how would it remove on their individual birthdays rather than also collectively at the same time? I believe there's an ancient magic that just registers and stores new wizards births, and automatically applies the trace. Then they don't enforce it until a certain age, specifically 11, when they are allowed to start learning magic.

[@fruitfulconnoisseur]

The trace is constantly active it's simply alerts them when and where magic for a particular underage which are wizard is used and what it is

[@spustatu]

So, if the trace is able to know that an adult is nearby, then clearly their trace is still active, if slightly different as adults. Does that mean the Marauder's Map hacks the trace to display where everyone in the castle is? Or is this something we already know and I missed the boat?

[@jamessmithson-br7rm]

Not a revelation or theory. It is canon that when there are adults about the Ministry don’t know who is doing the magic. Pretty sure the books either says this explicitly or imply it incredibly heavily.

[@CassandraMars]

The Ministry never knows who is preforming the magic. It’s a flaw in the trace they only know the location and not the person. They have to make an educated guess on who performed the magic due to the time and location.

[@DreadKyller]

That wasn't what the video was about though, we know they can't tell who, the question in the video was why in certain cases the trace didn't trigger at all, when it feels like it should have. That was what the theory was about.

[@SkyLec90]

The note at the end of the school year was enchanted with the trace

[@regenbogen5675]

That seemed obvious to me, Dobby is a magical being, so he does not count, the under age wizards with Magical Parents obviously are able to do more magic while on Summer break, because they are not alone. Harry is alone all the Time, so Yeah they would not get detected. Regarding the graveyards, the ministry is only monotoring under age magic when students are in Summer break or Winter break, not during the school year. The graveyard magic happens during school time, so no they are not monitored. And the portkey was Not given by the ministry, so how would they know about it. Dumbledore once created a portkey in book 5 so the Weasleys could get home after Arthur was attacked, that one wasn't registered as well.

[@JennyShull]

To me authors write what they know, so when JK wrote about the trace what was the real world equivalent? HP mainly takes in England and Scotland. Hogwarts is based on schools in England and maybe Scotland that JK might have went to. The trace might be the real world equivalent of schools and England and maybe Scotland keeping track of school children in a certain age range. Sirius might have said he is the one who inflated Marge because of what she said about Lilly and James. Frank(?) the caretaker of the Riddles estate was also accused of offing the Riddles. But I think that was mainly by muggles.

[@CassandraMars]

I’d be very curious if there was a real world equivalent. I can’t think of anything that would work at the moment, since it’s hard to compare a world of magic to the real world. However she might have gotten the idea from a science fiction book. I was trying to look up folklore on boggarts that exist outside of Harry Potter and I stumbled upon a book called ‘Manx Mouse.’ It’s a book from the 60s with a creature called clutterbumph which transforms into what you fear most. It also involves a 1000 year old prophecy about Manx Mouse and Manx Cat where the cat is meant to eat the mouse. JK got a lot of inspirations from real world events and things, but she also got a lot from books she’s read.

[@bowie5434]

They might have placed it upon wands at first that’s why Tom used someone else’s wand, but after that incident they changed it to your theory to avoid that happening again

[@fruitfulconnoisseur]

Your theory does make sense in the end a bit but the trace is always active it's merely whether or not it alerts them based on these I would think

[@danthe1st]

What about all the magic Tom Riddle performed at the Cave? Wasn't that before turning 17 as well?

[@CassandraMars]

Whatever he did the scare the kids was before he attended Hogwarts. Everything with the Horcrux protection was well after he was an adult wizard. Regulus Black was already a follower of him and Regulus was younger than Sirius.

[@danthe1st]

Was Regulus being his follower at that time confirmed anywhere? If I remember correctly (I haven't read the books in ages), only muggles were _with him_ in the cave and Regulus only got to know about it because of Kreacher.

[@CassandraMars]

I just pulled up the book so I could get the chapter correct. It’s explained in Deathly Hallows Chapter 10 Kreacher’s Tale. It says Regulus became a follower when he was 16. Then a year later his dark lord said he needed an elf and Regulus volunteered his house elf Kreacher for the task. He saw it was an honor to help him. I THINK this would make Voldemort in his early 50s when he sets up the cave, but he had the locket way longer.

[@danthe1st]

Oh, I understand what you mean. I interpreted it as him making the cave before (I think it was said that he did "something" to the kids at his time at Hogwarts and thought he needed an elf for testing it at some point after that). However, I can see the part about terorizing children happening before he even got to Hogwarts (?) and depositing the Horkrux after turning 17. I think that was explained in the Half-Blood prince book when they got to the cave. So the occurance of magic that might be the "issue" here would be entering the cave and terrorizing the children (which I think should have happened before turning 17) and not creating the Horkrux. This was definitely before his last year at Hogwarts because he wouldn't be in the orphanage otherwise. Doing these things before his first year would be surprising (but not impossible I guess) since it seems unusual to do all of that without really knowing anything about magic. Another possibility would be after turning 17 and before starting his last year at Hogwarts.

[@daftwulli6145]

have you considered it being part of ther sorting ceremony and they get tjhe trtace when the sorting hat is pladed on them.

[@CassandraMars]

It’s a very popular theory having the trace placed during the sorting ceremony while each student placed on the hat. I was trying to think outside of the box and a way to place the trace all at once rather than 40 plus times. Also the hat bring such an old artifact I’m unsure if it can be modified, if it can be then it would be a decent way to place the trace.

[@Lupinemancer87]

To be fair, during the Battle of 7 Potters, Harry had turned 17 so the trace was gone, so any magic happening around him from this point onwards doesn't count. Also, the reason some underaged witches/wizards such as the Weasleys can get away with using magic outside of school, is because in most cases the Ministry will assume it's their parents performing it and not bother. But Harry was the only registered wizard in his area so any magic done around him was instantly assumed to have been his doing.

[@sir_theodore23]

Harry wasn't 17 during 7 potters -- the order came to get him early after leaking fake plans they were getting him on his birthday to try and confuse the death eaters. Also he celebrates his 17th birthday at the burrow - Ron mentions he's lost the trace when they wake up on his birthday and Harry makes some objects float around to celebrate

[@CassandraMars]

Harry was almost 17 but still 16 during the battle of 7 Potters. They celebrate it at the Burrow in the book and in the movie Hermione mentions they forgot to bring out Harry’s birthday cake.

[@DreadKyller]

@@CassandraMars I think you meant the battle of the 7 potters and not the battle of Hogwarts, as Harry was definitely 17 during the Battle of Hogwarts?

[@CassandraMars]

lol oops. I didn’t even noticed that. I did mean 7 Potter. The battle of Hogwarts he was definitely 17.

[@SeanWheeler100]

@Lupinemancer87, if you thought the Trace was already gone by the time of the Battle of the 7 Potters, then why would Moody have this convoluted plan to have everyone disguised as Harry and fly on vehicles that doesn't trigger the Trace, if Harry could just Apparate to the Burrow?

[@DreadKyller]

I don't agree with your assessment that it can not be from birth. 1) The Ministry can be decerning. They can send Harry letters when magic is used there because he's the only known magic user, but in cases where no known magic user lives, or where multiple live, it's likely that the ministry would send agents to investigate if the infraction was significant enough. Where they would find it was someone who hadn't yet learned of their abilities or how to control them. So using the idea that accidental magic before the age of 11 would result in a letter and thus can't be the case is a bit of a stretch. In fact considering that detecting magic usage is also the same kind of act that makes the book of admittance and the quill of acceptance work, both are likely using different expressions of the same magic, if the book and quill can detect magic even from birth, then clearly something is present from birth that can be used to detect magical deeds. It's possible the Ministry is capable of hooking into this magic once the user is identified I suppose, but either way this isn't enough to prove definitively that the trace isn't in place from birth. 2) The ministry has had many arcs where they are very, very into control, if the trace isn't intrinsic to the witch or wizard and is instead some spell/charm placed on them, then the Ministry would have an interest is having it last longer than their 17'th birthday, but it's expressed even when Voldemort has taken over that the trace goes away at 17 and there's nothing anyone, in any position, can do about it. The fact this Ministry seemingly can not make it work past 17 implies heavily that something biologic is at the very least involved. 3) If you have a magic family, then any magic in that house would be activating the trace all the time. The Ministry would be given two options, investigate every single piece of magic performed at the house of multiple known witches and wizards so that they can known when it was actually done by an underage witch/wizard, or they'd have to disallow the parents, who are fully-fledged witches and wizards from ever performing magic in their own house (at least when they have a kid around). It's likely the Ministry just ignores these cases "Oh just another spell at the Weasleys, probably Molly" A lot of the reasoning for dismissing certain theories comes down to "the ministry would have sent a letter" which just isn't strictly true. All this being said I still think this is a compelling explanation of how it could work.

[@CassandraMars]

THIS is why I’m really enjoying making videos. I love hearing other people’s thoughts on Harry Potter theories. I really like the idea of tapping into the magic of the quill. I wish we knew more about the quill and book. I believe I remember reading about the book not letting the quill write Neville’s name even though he used magic when he was a baby and wrapped himself tighter in his blankets. It wasn’t until he made himself bounce land when his uncle dropped him out the window by accident. I would love to know the reasoning or the difference of magic an underage witch or wizard needs to do to get written down for Hogwarts.

[@RoachIndited]

Maybe it’s done by district we’ve seen like how multiple ways can put up a big shield around Hogwarts maybe local councils are responsible for areas

[@saphirefoxirl]

I think (because of the seven Potters thing) that the trace still activates if there is an adult witch/wizard around, but the adult's presence is somehow noted, and the magic would not normally be investigated in this situation.

[@CassandraMars]

It’s a good theory, but if feel sorry for the Ministry worker that would have to sort through all of that. Underage magic probably happens a lot in magical homes. That amount of paperwork would drive me crazy to sort

[@rilian226]

I think in that case, it is speculated that the ministry was ignoring Harry's underage magic to hide the fact that death eaters were so active and the ministry was literally a few days or weeks from falling to Voldemort...something like that. It's likely that he was setting the trace off left right and center during the battle of 7 potters and the ministry chose to hide it.

[@DreadKyller]

@@CassandraMars They probably have some sort of filter or something if so.

[@fruitfulconnoisseur]

There are times in the movie when he uses magic outside of Hogwarts that isn't in the book

[@Snowy84557]

Good try but the trace is placed on a town and records all spells and its location, including spells from adult wizards. The laws against unsupervised underage magic is separate from the trace. It's because of Tom Riddle that flags were added for wizards living in muggle houses. Otherwise it does its main job of flagging illegal spells. When Dumbledor visited Harry he registered his visit to the muggle world, which is why the spells he cast didn't get flagged.

[@laceyregister8726]

Do you think that the trace is an excuse for the Ministry of magic .to get students like Harry Potter in trouble?

[@CassandraMars]

It’s very well could be. The Ministry probably had eyes on Harry more than anyone else because of him surviving Voldemort as a baby.

[@fruitfulconnoisseur]

Tom Riddle later known as Voldemort used magic while in the vicinity of other witches and wizards outside of Hogwarts they can't tell who used the magic this is explained in the books

[@fruitfulconnoisseur]

True Dumbledore may know how to place the charm but it's also true he may not know the specifics on how it works not everyone knows everything

[@aSouthFloridian]

The trace was on Tom Riddle’s uncle, what was his name? I’m pretty sure he wasn’t going to school.

[@futuresonex]

Good theory, well thought out.

[@brownel9504]

So far half Wright the trace is active when he or she excepted the letter. Magical ministries have a world wide net out for any child exhibit Magical talents of any kind, well true magic.

[@alberthaystowniiijd2821]

I submit that the wand underage wizard, and witches upon procuring their wands have the trace placed upon the wand with a false safe upon crossing the Black Lake places the trace upon the wand. As to the dementors after Harry's 4th year, 1) due to Harry's forced entry into the Tri - Wizard Tournament as an underage wizard yet the party entering had to be of age; therefore, he was recognized as an of age wizzard. He is free to perform magic. 2) as Sir William Blackstone said " Life is a gift from God. You have inalienable right to se defendo. So, he clearly could use magic under the circumstances. As to placing the trace upon the either the young wizzard, or young witch is flawed because of one uses wandless magic, the Minstry does not record it.

[@CassandraMars]

Harry used wandless magic to inflate Marge which is why I think it’s on the witch or wizard. I love the idea of the Tri-Wizard Tournament recognizing him as an adult. It would be a good reason to temporarily not have the trace work during the graveyard events.

[@alberthaystowniiijd2821]

@CassandraMars What Harry did to Marge was accidentally magic, he lost control of his emotions since Marge belittled his parents.

[@rilian226]

@@alberthaystowniiijd2821 Yes accidental but magic nonetheless and the ministry knew about it thus the trace was activated.

[@c342thedroid2]

@@CassandraMars Regarding the trace being placed upon the wands, correct me if I'm wrong but with the Marge incident even if the wand wasn't being used the wand was still within the necessary radius to pick up on the magic, and with no adult wizard detected nearby it would still set off and notify the ministry, wouldn't it? The same rules would still apply and work out.

[@InvaderWeezle]

Your theory is why I give the third movie a pass for the Lumos Maxima scene at the beginning, even if it doesn't make sense for Hogwarts to give practical homework over the summer

[@PlayItForTradition]

Well thought-out theory. I agree with this proposal.

[@CassandraMars]

Thank you!

[@devinonearth]

This makes sense to me! Somehow magic IS traced before Hogwarts, since the Quill has some way of knowing who is magical, and it's unlikely that the quill has powers even the ministry does not. But for the specific Trace that notifies the ministry of potential violations of the statute of secrecy, your theory is my new headcanon 👏😂🪄

[@CassandraMars]

Thank you!! This was a really fun video to plan out. The trace has always been confusing and I really wanted to dive into it and figure out something that made it make sense.

[@devinonearth]

You did a great job! I can't wait to have more Potter talk 😁

[@jonjacob1962]

I think all magic is traceable. That's the only way the Quill of acceptance and Book of admittance could work. But I think it's only children whose magic is attached to their identity. Prior to getting your acceptance letter, you don't know the rule, so they don't punish you. But until you turn 17, they will know whenever you perform magic. The ministry can still see that magic is being performed even when it's by adults. They just can't see who it is performing it if they're over 17. So if a child lives in a house with magical parents and magic is performed. They would be able to tell if it was or wasn't the child. Since the ministry didn't know Doby was there. They may have assumed Harry tried to use some sort of charm to cover who it was. Hence him getting in trouble for it. But if a visitor was there from say Hogwarts. The ministry would know. Hence why he isn't punished for using it around professors even though he was outside of school.

[@pathfinderlight]

You're correct that all magic performed by children is traceable. That's how the ministry of magic knows who to send Hogwarts letters to. But they can't detect the caster. For that, they generate a list of possible contacts, then send out witches or wizards to determine if the caster is known or not. Accidental magic is actually a prerequisite for Hogwarts, but only one instance is enough. It's not that the trace is inactive in wizarding homes, it is, but results around known wizarding homes aren't investigated because those results are thrown out automatically. Instances of Harry casting in the 3rd book can be chocked up to the ministry ignoring them, wanting to keep Harry Potter safe because they believe Sirius is looking for him. Instances around him in the 4th book during the tri-wizard tournament, well, magic is happening all over, like a wizard's house on steroids. And again after the tri-wizard tourney, portkey to Voldemort probably went to an area that had a block on the trace, or was near enough a wizarding house. He is, after all, a great wizard.

[@MabaseDrifter]

So homeschooled witches and wizards never get the trace. Can't really confirm or deny that though as we have zero examples of a homeschooled witch or wizard.

[@TheRealGSmith]

Why wouldn't some sort of trace be placed upon unspeakable curses as well? Would only make sense. I mean, Voldemort even put some sort of trace on his own name. Remotely and for everyone.

[@prawtism]

So every time Malfoy was home alone and Dobby used magic, it would trigger? :D

[@CassandraMars]

😆 lol if that happened I’m sure Lucius would be paying someone off at the Ministry.

[@fruitfulconnoisseur]

It made sense without me having to watch this but that's because I read the books The movie doesn't do it justice The issue as to why it doesn't work sometimes is because of parents using magic

[@vukkulvar9769]

Doesn't says how they muggleborn can do their homework without casting spells.

[@Mr_Timi1]

ad hoc, not mentioned in the books

[@Slowbuck1]

Aren’t you maybe overthinking things?

[@superraegun2649]

This is a very ineffective way of setting up the trace and sounds like it's really about lending an unfair advantage towards pureblood students who would be able to practice magic during the holidays.

[@StephenMatrese]

Or she had a plot hole

[@eliasthienpont6330]

🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁LION takes LIKE No. 139

[@Orangeninja5000]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND you've earned a sub

[@SlimGod26]

You're wrong, the vehicles (brooms, flew powder, flying cars, etc...) don't activate the trace. Neither does 'lumos' (lighting spell) or alohamora (unlock spell) so in the Prisoner of Azkaban when he accidently pulled out his wand and called the Night Bus, he wasn't breaking any rules. The Ministry found him because they had to send people there to deflate Aunt Marge and wipe her memory and there has to be something that tells them the Night Bus was there and they assumed since Harry wasn't there, that he took the Night Bus. The trace had NOTHING to do with this situation.

[@siswatching]

Did you listen to the video? 👀

[@CassandraMars]

We are both right in that the trace isn’t on certain magical transportations. Sorry if there was a misinterpretation of how I explained myself.

[@SlimGod26]

@@CassandraMars it's ok, I was partly wrong. I had just watched the beginning when I commented that

[@christophdewarenne9309]

... Did... Did I just witness a civil exchange of comments on KZbin?!

[@CassandraMars]

😂 lol it’s the magic of Harry Potter

[@stuartl7761]

I like it

[@CassandraMars]

Thank you!

[@celestialgaming2016]

first

[@CassandraMars]

Thank you for watching!!