How To Balance The Advance Wars 1 CO's?

[@Mangs1337]

Alright. So after reading all your comments, I do agree that my changes to Drake wasn't very good. I'll try to revise this for the Aw2 video!

[@silversword404]

I think drake was good

[@soulhoney1227]

Man drake tsunami isn't that bad because you can counter that with andy but even if you don't pick Andy 9 hp unit i still strong

[@minnick66]

I respect this. Props to you for taking the honest feedback into consideration.

[@bernizubi5217]

It's all good fun Mango.

[@Zetact_]

I think that something like making the damage occur at the end of Drake's turn would make sense and might be a good enough nerf. IMO the main issue global damage powers have is that they defang the entire enemy force in a single action and then you can have your own units move in and finish them off, or at least weaken them to useless HP levels. Plus it interrupts all caps regardless of where your units are and forces repairs on any unit on a property which gives an even bigger boon to value. It isn't even a case similar to Andy where you have to make a decision of whether you want to take engagements and then heal up to get a bigger value bonus or to pop the power at the start of the turn to get the firepower bonus - you get both the firepower AND the value as soon as you activate and the value you get easily can snowball over the next couple of turns. Global damage powers are almost more powerful than something like Gold Rush in that regard, since they give the same immediate value on top of momentum in contested areas. And Gold Rush is clearly broken even though it gives less immediate presence compared to a global damage power. So I say that global damage powers do generally need some sort of nerf that doesn't let the COs that have them eat their cake and have it, too. Plus the wave coming in at the end of the turn works the same way a tsunami does in real life.

[@baldbro3693]

*I’d say we can make Sturm more balanced by making his meteor strike actually hit mech balls for once.*

[@The_Big_Jay]

Aim for the balls.

[@329link]

But that'd just be low man. You don't just go for the balls like that.

[@aphato2770]

Ball on Ball action

[@ivanvladimir0435]

Too busy hitting Max's tanks

[@cpt.papazola7286]

Out of topic here, I would like to propose that the modder try new mechanic like special unit for each officer which adds or replace common arsenals. Like Sami obtain commando unit and Eagle obtain assault fighter that shoot aircrafts with missile like interceptor and harrass infantry and light vehicles with autocannon like duster planes in DoR.

[@kingarthur3236]

Mangs: "I am not a fan of global damage powers" :)

[@hadoukenfighter]

i never quite realized how broken global powers are until i played AWBW

[@MrKhaos0001]

It's because of this kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6qZl5uha7eXnLs

[@BoltTheEmolga]

Lmao you gave him PTSD

[@kingarthur3236]

@@MrKhaos0001 I know, Im the player in the video lmao

[@antiradiationsnowy1536]

What a king

[@wannabecinnabon]

can't believe he turned sturm into grimm

[@SixtyFourest]

Great changes overall. I have mixed feelings about the removal of Tsunami: I agree that global damage is not the best mechanic for advance wars, but I also think it fits Drake well thematically. He is basically designed to wear down his opponent (weather the storm so to speak.) I can't deny I hate being on the receiving end of it though...

[@aurabearer9731]

Getting in those early cries of "DO THE SAME FOR DUAL STRIKE, DAYS OF RUIN, AND EVEN AWBW!" early on

[@Kralex121]

I feel like Tsunami is really the battleground for this rework's discussion, as it's justification boils down to just "I don't like it" creating a rift between players feeling the same way and players liking it/thinking it's fine. I personally disagree with this change as I feel it's just sidestepping trying to balance global damage powers and changing Tsunami here has a lot of implications for changing other global damage powers in the upcoming games. The change just makes the power less interesting as it is one of a kind in AW1 if we're not counting meteor strike and the new power would just exchange it with something we have seen a lot already. It's also a nerf to an actually very favorable matchup for Andy, who being a jack of all traits CO doesn't have much interesting stuff going for him. But I do agree with not taking situational factors into account. Sonja being weaker in non-fow maps makes sense as well Sami being stronger on maps that favor infantry or mechs. The map and ruleset should always impact CO selection, so I'm glad this video didn't try to overbalance and give every CO something outside of their specialty.

[@gericross]

I feel like Drake's whole shtick is to go for the long con and holding on long enough to whittle down your opponent with tsumanis until you can go for that final push. I like to see him be a defensive CO with the old tsunami

[@mrbilter83]

>Eagle : A tier >no changes >Sami : B tier >nerf goddamnit Mangs

[@NieOrginalny]

He's very angry at mechs right now

[@projectpitchfork860]

His changes don't really mix well with his tear list.

[@MrKhaos0001]

"if you want balance, take all the difference of the COs out and see what you get." You get Wargroove. I know you liked that game, but lack of difference among the COs, as the blatant inutility of the CO Powers (with a few exceptions) is exactly what you described.

[@BigKlingy]

Even then, Wargroove has some commanders who are often banned because of how broken their powers are. Nuru especially. Her Teleport Beam lets her deploy any unit she has the deployment property for adjacent to her. They nerfed this in a patch so she has to pay double for the unit, and it's STILL broken as hell. (Pulling an indirect out of your ass to snipe a key unit or the HQ is still stupid) Caesar's power is essentially a Reyson dance from Path of Radiance. Even a nerfed Lightning Strike still turned out to be too much for most commanders to handle. Tenri's power might not look like much, but being able to move any unit within a wide radius of her, including herself (the only exception is the enemy commander), is ridiculously versatile. It's mobility, it's an escape tool, or it can pull key units into death range.

[@MrKhaos0001]

@@BigKlingy Sincerely, those are very specific and maybe good in determined situations, but if are winning, they won't make you win much faster, and if you are losing they won't turn the game around. Mercia has the best power since the area is big and a renewed frontline can win you a match, but Nuru, yeah, fine, you can cause big damage to HQ, but if your commander is so close to the enemy HQ, you're probably about to win anyway. But, even so, they aren't broken, fighting with a commander without groove would probably just be mildly annoyed by those, but not that much. In Advance Wars when the enemy pops out the Super Power, you pay attention, because the damage gonna be great, in Wargroove, you just... Meh... I mean, Big Bad Boy Valder calls a new skeleton... Meh... Cesar renews the actions of 2 units (yep, 2 because it gonna be very rarely you gonna be able to position your guys in the front line in the formation for him to do it 3 or 4), your best bet is to use indirect to attack at the same turn, in exchange for his attack. Meh,,, maybe that little stuff may make a difference between similar level high skilled players, but... Give me advance wars COs any day.

[@inarencommander4663]

@@MrKhaos0001 Ryota is the most powerful Commander in Wargroove. He's absolutely broken.

[@FabulousJejmaze]

@@inarencommander4663 Ryota and Sedge are both crazy good

[@MrKhaos0001]

@@inarencommander4663 I seriously disagree, in very specific situations, he can cause more damage than Meteor Strike, sure, but what are the chances you get your enemy to align their troops like that. Most of the time, if you use that thing, you run a straight line into the enemy ground, get surrounded, and die, same goes for Ragna Pseudo Meteor Strike, it must get her on enemy-controlled ground where she will probably be surrounded and die.

[@Dew8Dew]

I agree with pretty much every buffs and nerfs you did, aside from Sturm, now he feels like a Grimm copycat, so he's just bad. I agree with the +30% firepower and -20% defense, since I always had the headcanon that he treats his own units poorly, and forces them to fight like there's no tomorrow. However, I feel like he should keep that one cost movement, which yes, is very strong, but as you said countless times, defense matters A LOT, even more than firepower, and I feel like without giving him the edge to being able to at least go through terrain swiftly, he would get his ass handed to him by multiple COs. With the 1 cost movement, Sturm certanly seems scary, but it's not like he can abuse that and just storm you without a care in the world since his units are made of foil paper and so any not planned, mindless push from him can easily be shut down as long as you don't panic, much like Grimm. just my two cents through, I pretty much agree with everything else.

[@Mangs1337]

Being able to traverse terrain at 1 cost is so incredibly busted.

[@Dew8Dew]

@@Mangs1337 It really is, but I feel like without it, he's just a meh CO, through I don't really blame you for being so hard on him, he's just hard to balance imo.

[@UltimaDoombotMK1]

In the AWBW server they have a balancing discussion about COs every so often, where they give ideas on how to bring them all to Tier 1, but I've always wondered how it'd be if they were all rebalanced to be Tier 0. It'd be hilariously broken for some reason.

[@zincwing4475]

The higher the tier, the more unique and diverse they have to be(giving every CO the same buff is no buff at all), the harder it is to keep them balanced. I am not saying it wouldn't be fun, but it would be a lot of careful tweaking and extra complexity, the latter part making things harder.

[@yoshifan2334]

So... SF2 rainbow edition? I can get behind that, if only just for the memes

[@shigerufan1]

Andy has hyper upgrade from the second game as his only ability Eagle's lightning strike is 30,000 points and has no offensive penalty Sonya's units are always hidden in fog unless adjacent to an enemy Drake and Olaf have rain and snow 100% of the time, unless facing each other. Sami's infantry and mechs always have +1 movement, or she gets a discount on transports instead Nell has 10% minimum good luck, bumped up to 20% on her CO power Grit's indirects can counterattack

[@UltimaDoombotMK1]

@Samuel Duff No, all luck based COs will have a permanent luck boost to minimum firepower (like, +20 to +70 for Nell or something) and also a big increase in the threshold for their max luck power

[@hirmetrium1]

This is why the "Pareto Principle" exists. You can't fix everything, and trying to fix everything is impossible. So instead, you focus on the biggest problems for the largest results.

[@Andrewlik]

That what?

[@KatThePoet]

@@Andrewlik that. Yk'now. That.

[@hirmetrium1]

@@Andrewlik learn 2 google

[@shelbyramin1376]

@@hirmetrium1 a follower of jp I presume?

[@329link]

It'd be cool if someone made a romhack with these changes implimented to really test how good this rebalancing would be.

[@DaRoblin]

Just some ideas: Sturm moves through everything, but costs a ton of extra fuel for balance when he exercises that privilege. For the meteor, consider a rework to the AI of that event to be more predictable and possibly to increase the chance it hits his own men . For example, make it so he can only call it down on one of his units and rely on the splash to damage the enemy. Sturm seems like the kind of guy to rely on sacrificing his own men rather than relying on chance. Have Drake's deluge sap a small percentage of fuel from the enemy while you're at it, no CO makes use of that mechanic so it's ripe design space (in AW1). I hope your changes find their way into a ROM.

[@DaRoblin]

Targeting meteor on your own men could pair well with splash damage zones. Rather than flat 3 damage, it could do 4 in the center, then 3 damage on the 4 squares around it, the next ring be 2 damage and the outside do 1. What a fun exercise.

[@halvar1120]

I like your way of balancing things. Keep what makes that character special, even if it is considred too strong but put a different kind of nerf on that CO. And exploring new mechanics is always fun to see.

[@projectpitchfork860]

@@DaRoblin That wouldn't make things much better. If you could choose the unit on you own, that would end in either spamming cheap units to keep the enemy away from them or sending in a hidden kamikaze recon.

[@cristiansaucedo4707]

@@projectpitchfork860 Your arguments are true but only if Sturm fills up his meter quickly. If it still fills up slowly, then the guy's changes are all right, I think

[@NicoTheCinderace]

@@TheKingNaesala That sounds great.

[@Talif_Moor]

"I'm going to nerf Sturm to be balanced against the other COs by making him Grimm."

[@HenT8991]

Okay, so when are we getting a Tier list of your Tier lists?

[@DS-tv2fi]

And when will we get a tier list tier list tier list?

[@CaptainVicke]

I'll throw my hat in the ring. I agree with Mangs on some points but I think there are some other potentially interesting avenues to go about balancing here. ORANGE STAR COs Andy: 'Balanced CO' +Pays 50% less on base repairs than other COs +Hyper Repair cost lowered to 25,000 Max: 'Direct Combat Specialist' -Direct firepower buff decreased to 130% -Max Force cost increased to 35,000 from 30,000 -Max Force only applies movement to attack units Sami: 'Infantry & Capture Specialist' -Capture rate bonus decreased from 50% to 30% (Agree with Mangs here) Nell: 'Roll the Dice CO' (I think this CO can go either way. I think Nell is fine as is, but I could see the decrease in luck value in exchange for CO power charge working fine as well) -No Changes BLUE MOON COs Olaf: 'Snow CO' +Gains day to day ability of +20% unit defense in snow (Going with the idea of bogging down the battlefield and digging in) +Blizzard cost decreased to 25,000 Grit: 'Indirect Combat Specialist' -No Changes YELLOW COMET COs Kanbei: 'Elite Forces Specialist' -No Changes Sonja: 'Fog of War Specialist' +/- Has no good luck. Bad luck value removed + Enhanced Vision now halves property defense bonuses (Has intel on where units are in cities/factories/etc) GREEN EARTH COs Eagle: 'Air Unit Specialist' -No changes Drake: 'Naval Unit Specialist' (With Drake, I like the idea of exploring his 'pirate' history a little more, so his balancing attempts to reflect that more. I do think Drake is sort of difficult to balance because he's specialized in the most expensive yet challenging to use units, and his air units are so terrible. ) +Added day to day ability of all naval units being 20% cheaper due to his plundered wealth +All naval units gain +10% firepower -Decreased 120% naval unit defense to base 100% defense BLACK HOLE CO Sturm: '???' (I'm not too much of a fan of the changes Mangs proposed, mostly because of the heavy defense penalty.) +/- All units have 110% firepower and defense +/- Maintains his unit's movement powers, but due to being unfamiliar with Earth's climate treats rain as snow, and suffers the same effects of snow as every CO +Meteor Strike damage buffed to 5 damage per unit -Meteor Strike cost nerfed from 50,000 to 60,000

[@bienhy5120]

Nice balance, really good overall. here is what I would do to improve based on your new version : kanbei losing 10% is a lot on day-to-day so I would in fact buff his morale boost defense to 40%. while he may have his morale boost more often, he will get less defense in average compared to the original verion drake I don't think a rework is needed, sure it's annoying but there is a way to improve it. I would make his tsunami will deal 1 damage to any unit on sea/reef/shoal/river and it's adjacent tile. that way it will still deal global damage but there is a way to prevent it. I would also reduce the cost to 30K. sturm I think 30% firepower and -20% is too weak on a day-to-day basic (we all know with grimm), making it 20% firepower and -10% defense seems fair

[@blakefenslerjr4858]

To this day those meteor watcher mechs are still looking for there meteor

[@shelbyramin1376]

I dislike your changes to drake. His power is my favorite part about him. I love the worldwide effect powers like his and hawke's, and I have grown to love candy as well for her urban blight. That is thanks to you by the way, I never thought to use her in that manner until you mentioned it in your rankings video.

[@Mangs1337]

Of course something overpowered is fun when you get you use them.

[@shelbyramin1376]

@@Mangs1337 but haven't you ranked both Hawke and drake at B in your last videos? Is that overpowered? I know you have changed your mind on drake because his powers cost is so low, but Hawke is one of the most balanced cos in the game in my opinion.

[@CloudyDaze]

@@shelbyramin1376 drake's actually always been a C-Man in his rankings

[@shelbyramin1376]

@@CloudyDaze I stand corrected. I think it only furthers my point though.

[@CloudyDaze]

@@shelbyramin1376 Honestly, considering Eagle wasn't hit NEARLY as hard. Id say he has a potentially more busted power than Drake by far, even if it does take some skill to use. Drake with a busted power is still at C. Should've made his general troops more generally useful.

[@MenwithHill]

Glad to see this one ! The original was indeed pretty antiquated as well, glad you remade if.

[@shanemacmillan5732]

Like ranking the COs, you're probably going to want to make this for the entire series rather than just the first 2 games. I mean, it's a solid idea that is going to have president (and I'd certainly watch you try to make Caulder "balanced").

[@Ryguy92250]

Mangs, I love your attention to Drake, and I agree that Tsunami is OP 1 and I main Drake! However… Giving Drake a firepower boost seems a bit too easy. Boats cost so much, and they have to be in position. Eagle is the air CO and gets to move twice - Why not let Drake work like him? Exchange the 20% firepower boost for the ability to allow Drake to move and shoot his Battleships for 1 turn? He won’t have that many ships due to their high cost, but the ones he does have will be incredibly solid for that one turn!

[@megarotom1590]

Custom Co idea #10: Sham, the Shove master Infantry and Mechs can shove units one space provided those units can traverse that terrain. Infantry can only shove "lighter" vehicles (footsoldiers, recons, A-Air, tanks, artillary, APCs), while mechs can shove "medium" Vehicles (Md. Tank, Rockets, Missiles, and Landers). 3 stars: Smite: Infantry can now shove anything mechs can and mechs can shove Neotanks, Piperunners, and non-battleship docked naval units [not counting submerged subs]) or smite units they could already shove (2 spaces instead of 1) 7 stars: Determination: Pulls a Flak and Smite except they can now shove stuff through terrain that they can't normally move through He's part of the third army, the neutralists (name pending).

[@ShadowdaHedgie11]

Still waiting for that video on balancing the Advance Wars 2 CO's, Mangs. :P

[@Prettyfailtho]

Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but there may be some clues in the trailer as to what some COs might look like. It shows a max copter battling a drake cruiser and the cruiser has 0 defence stars (implying no drake defence boost). The copter also only does 5 damage, which is less than a Max copter does VS a cruiser with 0 def stars in AW1. Haven't tested what it's like with co powers off, so it's possible that is what they showed though. But upon a rewatch, thought it was interesting

[@gorrazin7983]

True balance isn't impossible, It's just that a truly balanced game wouldn't be very fun or interesting. Think about it this way. Hypothetical: I'm making a FPS game and I want all the guns to be balanced, but I want to have different guns. The first gun I'm going to design is an Kalashnikov. I design the gun to have a slower fire rate, but more damage per bullet. Then I'm going to design a FAMAS. It will have lower damage but have a faster fire rate. Then all I have to do from there is make the DPS between the two guns the same. It's technically 100% balanced even though one gun might shine over the other a little in certain scenarios. Does that sound like a very fun game? even though the stats of the 2 guns are somewhat different they're basically the same gun. A good example of a perfectly balanced game is the very first Street Fighter. There is Ryu and there is Ken, but they have the same exact moves and the same exact damage values leading to the game being a snooze fest. Most people when they call something "unbalanced" actually just want it to be more in line with the "power level" of other weapons/ equipment/characters because actual balance would look some thing like this. Hypothetical 2: Character one gets 10% more power but 10% less defense. Character 2 gets 10% less power but gains 10% more defense. Character three gets 10% more defense but has 1 less vision range. Character 4 gets 10% more damage but has 1 less vision range, etc. In conclusion, no one actually wants a balanced game. Everyone just want's everything to be around the same general, to steal from DBZ, power level. No one wants to have to deal with the bs of something's power level being "over 9000!" but everyone at the same time wants to feel powerful. Personally for me I like to use the weaker items/ options in a game and just get crazy skilled with it because it makes me feel more powerful than if I were to use the strong item/ option. I mean hell I really like playing Sonja and it's not exactly like she's high up on any Advance Wars tier list but she's fun to play and it feels really good when to get the perfect Counter Break that swings the match in your favor. That and annoying the hell out of people because they don't know how much HP your units have is fun. I wonder what Grimm Guy's opinion would be on this actually. Well anyways great video as always Mangs!

[@vinnisvidya]

dude I have no idea why youtube recommended me this video I have never touched an advance wars game in my life but I am absolutely willing to listen to someone talk about a rebalance for a game I know nothing about for 17 minutes

[@stormyseas5193]

Can we just talk about how cute sami is in the aw remake for a sec-

[@bentowers3614]

That WayForward magic. :D

[@bernizubi5217]

Mangs after losing to Drake:

[@generalketzer6444]

hey jo Mangs! good job. i used to worked in balancing some other older strategy game and realy can tell that you are realy mindfull with your changes. i totally agree with most of your changes. i also like the idea with Drakes new power. Only thing i thought about it, is it beeing the same price olafs. Sure, snow is more of a movement penelty. but Rain also reduces drakes enemys vision. In Fact i also like that Drakes ship also get a firepower bonus, but maybe with all that in mind his power should cost a lil' more then Olafs. Especialy when we, as you said play him on a map that forces you to build ships. Or maybe we also get a naval-price-rework so they aren't something you only build when you are forced into it.

[@cristiansaucedo4707]

Really good video, Mangs. :) I would say and hope that for your next videos you ask us for our ideas, put them together in groups and then show us what we are saying, on average, about how we think every CO should be fixed. Stands to be a lot of videos but then you won't have to come up with ideas for a while after that

[@DarkShadowHawk720]

In advance wars, random weather with drake in a 4P match, it rained every other turn end. I like the sonja idea of removing luck with her. As for drake, I’d keep that added 2 terrain stars cuz his navy should be more difficult to takedown given reefs and naval ports are the only safe spots. I love naval units especially in advance wars dual strike with the added carrier cuz it feels like battleship board game.

[@lukasnagler1104]

All of these changes sound great and I'd love to play a few games with them patched in. The one idea I have to contribute is to keep sturm the same but make it so he doesn't get any terrain star bonuses. He would basically treat all terrain like roads, but still keep his base 20% defense (which might need to be lowered to 10%). I think those changes would create a pretty unique playstyle while still keep ling sturm as a "destroyer" of sorts.

[@cringekid3993]

So all his units are Aerial units without weakness to anti air?

[@timothypeterson4781]

"This is a B rank commander. I'm going to nerf them." Interesting logic there Mangs.

[@Walpurgisnackt]

Maybe for Drake it would good to work in a cost reduction for naval units so he's not punished for opting into sea units when it's not required

[@Vugtis_El_VillaVODS]

Andy = APC heals 1hp, City heals 3hp Sami = Infantry and Mechs can do Indirect attack if they dont move but does 70% Atk power. APCs can carry 2 Infantry and Mechs Max = Indirects can do Melee but does 50% Atk power. Keep the +2 Move when using Super Power Jess = APCs can do indirect attack provided it has infantry or mech in it

[@Fawie42]

I agree giving Sonja a 0% luck rating would fit with her character so much, but it would also jive with how I played a match once against my sibling. Circumstance was that he had a unit that would damage my infantry for X damage, knowing this I moved an full HP infantry unit forward to capture and when attacked the damage output was exactly the same, however also following that infatry I brought a Y damaged one up behind it and on my next turn after dealing with whatever damaged my capturing infantry I combined the X+Y infantry to get them back to full. Small strats like that to me are super satisfying to pull off.

[@chrisf.9595]

If Konami was in charge of Advance Wars: "just ban 'em"

[@menhirmike]

"Here's a new Advance Wars Game... exclusively in a Casino near you!"

[@TKHedgeHog]

As A Hardcore Yu-Gi-Oh Player I Felt that.

[@portalguy2246]

I’ve only seen the Andy segment, but what if he was buffed and had his hyper repair do 3 points of repair? (like Brenner)

[@soulhoney1227]

Advance wars 2

[@portalguy2246]

@@soulhoney1227 what about it?

[@soulhoney1227]

@@portalguy2246 i meam it would be the same as advance wars 2

[@soulhoney1227]

@@portalguy2246 but i am very curios on advance wars 2 what mangs will do to buff characters like flak or nerd like advance wars 2 sturm and kanbei

[@portalguy2246]

@@soulhoney1227 ah I see

[@ClexYoshi]

I've always wanted to see what Drake would be like if he had access to Days of Ruin Battleships, or if there was a hovercraft unit that functioned a bit like something ebetween a battle copter and a recon where the defense of the unit isn't so hot, but it can transition from Water to land but struggled to move into forests and reefs.

[@Jet-Steam-Gray]

I would have given Olaf a +15% attack and defense when it's snowing

[@12Metatron]

what if you did for drakes tsunami: 1 damage to all land and naval units that are not on mountains or properties. also makes it rain for 1 day

[@KidMangaX]

Eagle's SUPER CO Power is easily one of the most broken and divisive in the entire game-- IMHO, his is possibly the single most broken in the entire game, minus specific Tier-0 powers like Sensei's, etc... (and, generally-speaking, you aren't going to wait for Sensei's Super because his basic is so good.) It is an absolute game-changer. Unless you are able to completely crush the Eagle player before he is able to get his first Super CO power out, you are almost definitively heading into a game over from that point going forward. If you invested into a rocket(s) so that you could zone him out of the middle of the map, kiss it goodbye, along with any of your Md. Tanks, Neotanks, etc... if they are anywhere close to the center. Even stacking Anti-Air will not help, because he gets to move all non-footsoldier-type units a second time-- not just his planes. He can just rush you down with tanks and Md. Tanks, put his rockets where yours used to be, and so forth. By the time he gets his second CO power, it's all over. There is just no saving a game that has gone on for this long. As it currently stands, this character is just not balanced at all. Lightning Strike is certainly the best Super CO power in his tier, as well as in the next tier above him (A-class.) His CO power should be ripped out, _completely,_ and replaced with something more similar to Sami's CO power, where his air units get extra damage and extra (or perhaps several extra) move(s). Most importantly, take away the extra attack bullshit that his is Lightning Strike. In exchange for the nerf, give his air units more attack and defense, as his day-to-day is simply too niche to be competitive against the likes of Max, Sami, etc... actually, it should even be a bit higher, because air units are expensive, and there aren't usually many airports on GL maps. Also, you havet o take extra time to cap them before you can start producing from them. Alternatively, get rid of his day to day power completely, and limit the effects of Lightning Strike to *AIR UNITS ONLY.* PS: If your Sonja balances were implemented in AWBW, she would be my favorite. The luck mechanic makes no sense for her.

[@jorgep8032]

I agree with the global damage powers, but not sure how to feel about it, I played mostly AW2 so I don’t really have a strong grip on the AW1, the idea of Sonja having no luck I thought it for Jugger (being a robot an all), drake it’s complicated because you need a power that it’s useful in any map (or most of them) even if his nature is to be navel specialist, what I liked about tsunami it’s that the design goes in sync with the day to day, with extra defense fights go longer and with tsunami you will win a fight of attrition, some one else commented on andy having Rachel’s 3 hp day to day, but I would much rather have him with cheaper repairs or doing more damage the higher hp their units are to be more within his identity, can’t wait for the AW2 video, keep up the good work mangs

[@TheBoneKing]

Tbh i would give sturm's meteor strike a unique effect like the 3x3 square area but only the middle part takes 5 damage and other squares in the area only takes 2 and maybe dont effect the air units so giving sturm a weakness . And i would also remove his defence penalty and only make give him 20% extra power And maybe make max 30-35% so he would be better than sturm in a way And would also make nell's lucky star get capped at 10%-45% luck instead of 0%-45% giving her at least getting that 10% luck cus you know she is lucky

[@adept7497]

This video reminded me of a Rework for several Co's I have written a year ago. Aimed to modify the DoR game. I just copy-pasted into here, even tho it may have little to do with AW1. Maybe someone has fun reading it :) Advance Wars hack Balance Patch/Rework for Days of Ruin (Dark Conflict) General changes: Following CO's would be added from "Advance Wars: Black Hole Rising". The game mechanics of these Co's will be converted to those of the "Days of Ruin" CO's, with additional changes. No general changes to Units and mechanics from days of ruin if not mentioned otherwise. Air units can move with their remaining movement points after performing an action. Passive power bar generation: 1 bar per turn (5 points) Day to day: affects all units the CO is controlling, not only the units in the CO zone. All effects for CO's stack if not mentioned otherwise CO change list: Andy CO zone Range: 3 Affects: All Units +20% off and +20 def (1/1 Stars) The most expensive damaged single unit in the CO zone, will be repaired cost free by 1 hitpoint at the start of the day. Day to day power Repairing Units at properties is increased by 1 hitpoint without additional costs. (repaired by 3 hitpoints, pay for 2) CO power Hyper Repair All Units gain +3 Hitpoints, +10% Firepower and +1 Movement. Max CO zone Range: 2 Affects: Direct combat Units(except infantry, mechs, bikes) +60% off and +10% def (5/0 Stars) Unit with CO on board gains +1 movement Day to day power Fresh built units can move 2 more tiles once CO power Maximum (I like the german name for the CO power more :D) +3 movement for all direct-combat Units(except Infantry,mechs). Sami CO zone Range: 3 Affects: Infantry,mechs, Bikes +50% off and +20% def (4/1 Stars) Unit with CO on board gains +2 extra move if it is an Infantry/Mech/Bike and has a 1-2 range Day to day power Infantry, mechs and Bikes capture 50% faster(like in the previous games as Sami) When built they automatically gain veteran level. All transport units have +1 movement. CO power Double Time Infantry/Mech/Bikes can capture in one day, no matter the hp, gain +2 extra move and no movement penalties from Terrain. Olaf CO zone Range: 3 Affects: All units +20% off and +20% def (1/1 Stars) Day to day power All units are unaffected by snow. Passive powerbar regeneration is doubled. CO power Blizzard It's snowing for 2 turns. Enemy units lose 1 hp. Grit CO zone Range: 2 Affects: All Indirect-combat units +30% off and +20% def (2/1 Stars) Indirect-unit with CO on board can fire and move at the same turn, but loses 50% (except Battleships) Firepower if it is doing so. Day to day power +1 range for all Indirect-combat units (except battleships). CO power Snipe Attack +2 additional range(3 total) for all Indirect-combat units Colin CO zone Range: 2 Affects: All units +20% off and +10% def (1/0 Stars) Day to day power All units cost 20% less funds to deploy but also have -10% firepower and defense. Boarding CO doesn't cost any funds. CO power Power of Money Increases your current funds by x1.5 Kanbei CO zone: 2 Affects: All units +20% off and +20% def (1/1 Stars) +20% def against Indirect-attackers and the most expensive unit gets a level up at the start of Kanbei's turn. Day to day power All units cost 20% more funds to deploy but also have +20% firepower and defense CO power Morale Boost All units get an additional 30% Firepower boost. Sonja CO zone Range: 2 Affects: All units +20% off and +20% def (1/1 Stars) Enemy Units lose Terrain bonus if they are attacked Unit with CO on board is permanently hidden (like in a forest). Day to day power Hides hitpoints for all units and cargo of transports from the Opponent. +1 sightrange in fog of war. Infantry/mechs are permanently hidden (like in forests, outside of Fog of War. Units are hidden in forests and reefs, outside of Fog of War. CO power Enhanced Vision Entire map is revealed for Sonja in Fog of War Always first strike without Fog of War. Sensei CO zone Range: 2 Affects: Copter and infantry/mech +60% off and +30% def (5/2 Stars) Day to day power +1 movement for T-copter and can produce infantry/mech units (similar to carrier, but produced Units can't move out, they need to be dropped as usual). Repairing copters is cost free. CO power Airborne Assault Empty T-copter will be cost free loaded with mechs and can move again. You can deploy mech/infantry units with 9 hitpoints in own citys, cost free. Eagle CO zone Range: 2 Affects: Air units 40% off and 30% def (3/2 Stars) Day to day power Fuel costs are halved (rounded down). Open fire with air units grants a level up, destroying on the other hand, veteran level. -5% deployment cost for air units CO power Lightning Strike All Units may move and attack again, but with 50% less fire power (except Infantry/mech/bike). Drake CO zone Range: 2 Affects: Naval units, boardplanes 30% off and 40% def (2/3 Stars) Day to day power Naval units have +1 movement. -5% deployment cost for naval units CO power Typhoon Enemy units lose 50% fuel, 2 ammo and 1 hitpoint. Jess CO zone Range: 2 Affects: Ground units except infantry,mech +30% off and +30% def (2/2 Stars) 1 Unit with the least ammo/fuel will be fully resupplied at the start of turn. Day to day power -5% deployment cost for all tanks and Flak CO power Overdrive Resupply for all units. +2 movement for all ground units.

[@zoidbillyjoe24]

I just hope that the developers of the reboot watch these videos

[@damsen978]

For Drake i would only make his ships slightly cheaper, probably while CO power is active.

[@Hc2p3n4t4rp]

here are some other ideas For Andy - Base repairs cost haf the amount as DtD Max - I feel 20% is too low for what him, make it 30% or 25% as DtD Nell and Hachi - Unchanged, they must be unlocked after all Grit - Indirects having 10% Defense Drake - Naval Units costing less for him, lets say 10% less, and his Deluge sounds well

[@soulhoney1227]

Hachi discount can favour him aloot

[@Hc2p3n4t4rp]

@@soulhoney1227 he is ment to be broken, thats what I mean with if a mechanic feels cheep are too strong in the right circumstances then it being left untouched IF they are unlockables

[@SANJJI39]

(English is not my first language) I would make Sturm's day to day ability so his units have -1 movement cost instead, this way forests will still be a thing for recons and rockets. I won't remove it as you did, i feel it would lose it's main gimmick and just be Grimm with a meteor.

[@MsCreepyChan]

Personally, if i was to rework Drake's ability from scratch, i like the Deluge power, but i'd also give it the ability "Battleships can move and fire this turn" to make them more in line with Days of Ruin, because that's the only game where Battleships were worth their price. I'd also redo that first ability from his passive to "Naval units gain +20% defense and cost 20% less" as I think this would actually make Naval units a viable strategy.

[@k.u.5798]

Strongly agree with the Sturm changes. He loves invasions and hates peace! It makes way more sense for his units to have stronger attack and less defense.

[@Cloud_Seeker]

Yo Mangs. What you think of this CO idea. I have never played Advanced Wars myself but I like to come up with concepts. Since you wanted a forest focused CO, why not a ranger style? Day to day: Units in forest tiles have +10% attack, +20%def, Transport copters +1 movement, Infantry and Mech +1 vision in mountains. -20% Attack naval units Prepared positions (2 stars): Your units always gets first strike if they are in a forest tile (loses to Sonja) Charge! (5 stars): +2 movement, +20% attack, +10%def

[@danielgreenwood793]

I would love to see a CO that affects the bad luck of its opponents. Perhaps a rework of jugger so it's not a clone of flak. Another fun ability I would love to see is a CO that converts unit health back into money with a day to day that makes all repairs free, but reduces repairs to only 1 per day. Like a sketchy , looting pirate

[@rishikaushik8307]

if we want to make naval units relevant we need economy in sea, a sea property which gives 1000 gold and a ship that can capture it, then there will be a reason to fight over naval. Battle ships are too little of a reward

[@rishikaushik8307]

​@Ferny Panda going from one currency to three may make the game more complicated for new players

[@maico3010]

If you changed drake but also added a 2x fuel cost to enemies during his CO power it could be more interesting. Freezing enemy units in place to save fuel or sacrificing twice as much for typical movement. Plus the rain lowers their movement further lowering the effect of this making it not too strong like halving their fuel, but still having an effect on it.

[@pitchercam]

🤝 good ideas for both sturm and max

[@robertmiller8914]

Have you considered Andy's buff could be a day to day 25% cheaper repairs for units on city's?

[@TheOtherWhiteNerd]

I’d also add the Naval unit changes from DoR/DC, but also allow Landers to move across Rivers. This opens up map design and allows Naval play while also serving as a buff for Drake.

[@graefx]

Personally I like Tsunami being a global damage for a couple reasons. It's a nice dichotomy with Andy fixing his units. You're going to have players, particularly new players, that are going to look at the numbers and bonuses everywhere and getting overwhelmed, so having a power that's as linear and straight forward as 1 damage to everything is very accessible and feels gratifying when it happens. Also, like you said, naval units aren't in the best spot and requires the most ideal map for Drake to shine, so having a trade off of bringing the sea to the land for a moment makes sense. Now. I do agree that any sort of inevitability does feel like an antithesis to AW. I don't know if increasing the cost or what would be the right call.

[@danielgreenwood793]

I think a buff for Sonja should be the ability to see and attack hidden units with her power. Specifically submarines. Giving her power some use in non fog of war fights

[@DS-tv2fi]

Please do this for Advance Wars 2, Dual Strike, and Days of Ruin as well.

[@shigerufan1]

Days of Ruin would be a short one at least, the only truly broken character in that game is Caulder, and only Tasha, Penny, and Grayfield would need buffs to keep up with the rest for the most part.

[@NunnyNugget]

Could you make it so instead of doing a set amount of damage, Drake’s power deals a percentage of current enemy health? That way, he’d be better at weakening his opponents but he wouldn’t really be able to take many out with his power meaning he needs to capitalise on it. Idk I’m not good at this game at all so I have no clue if that’s a terrible change or not lol

[@lapintueur4799]

Wait eagle use lignting drive in the demo of AW Reboot camp at 13:04 , does that mean he gets his Advance Wars Dual Strike power and superpower? Or maybe he gets only lighning drive when you play the AW 1 storyline and he gets his superpower with the AW2 story.

[@TheRestedOne]

I actually liked Drake’s Tsunami. Did you consider something like ‘Reduce the enemies’ fuel by 1/2 or double consumption for a turn’?

[@ewanphilip5604]

Loving the Sonia changes. I always felt that her having bad luck was out of place

[@IntrepidMercenary]

For Andy, have a day to day power to repair units for half the price on cities.

[@k.u.5798]

This is a great idea for a video series.

[@Probotector_AUT]

I don't think a 20% FP boost during your revised CO Power would be a meaningful change considering Battleships and Cruisers are powerful enough against Land and Sub/Air units respectively, but I'd have made his naval units cheaper (~25-30% cheaper).

[@carlosnieve1225]

I don’t think unbalanced CO’s is inherently a problem. Something I always liked about playing advance wars as a kid was that you could tell people to play better CO’s than you as a handicap. Fixing broken CO’s is a good idea, but I’m sure if balance is even worth pursuing

[@BirdRaiserE]

I can see within the first few minutes that you must have some sort of dual strike balance video in the works and that you are also dreading it. Honestly, Flak and Jugger are going to need a rework, you've said they feel unfinished multiple times. In fact, a lot of DS CO's are going to need some extra flavor, but let's just focus on these two. I suggest something that sort of fits their names thematically, which I will explain in the hopes that you see this before making that video since I know it's coming. FLAK: in real life, flak is a sort of anti-air weapon, but the germans (who invented the word) also used it against infantry. Hence, my suggestion for Flak is to remove most of the luck stuff and give him something in line with the following: *+20% attack and defense when fighting air units or footsoldiers, but lose 20% offense in fights against any other type of unit* I'm not sure what his CO powers should be. However, now we have our first ever truly anti-air CO. JUGGER: Keep his abyssmal luck values, but make it so that he actually has time to land some lucky blows. Make him feel like a juggernaut, slow but unrelenting: *All non-footsoldier units lose 1 movement. All terrain has no cost for all units (like Sturm) (terrain that would normally be impassable for a given unit is still impassable). Weather does not change this. All units have +10% defense. He keeps his original luck modifiers.* *Powers remains unchanged in terms of luck, but COP now also adds 10% defense and SCOP adds +20% and 1 movement* With your rework suggestions, Sturm is balanced in one way. With my suggestions, it's like an entirely different Sturm balance method. He keeps that idea of an unstoppable alien CO but at a price of speed and reliable killing power. I also have some ideas for Koal and Jake but they're nowhere near as extensive. I'll post them if you actually do release a DS balance video.

[@OmegaTyrant]

Would +20% against air units really help though? Bcopters already get overkilled by Anti-Airs and their other counters, and other land units would barely notice a difference (e.g. Tanks go from dealing 9% damage to....11%), it definitely doesn't look worth that for -20% offense against non-infantry land units.

[@AdeptusForge]

Just a small point to bring up, but it is possible to balance out a set of game systems perfectly, in a mathematical sense. That being said, in most instances, it is not FEASIBLY possible to balance most game systems because they are too complex or are too difficult to conceptualize every possible gamestate to design around. Other than that, video is rock solid.

[@rockowlgamer631]

Also maybe instead of lowering Andy's Hyper Repair Cost, you make his Day to Day Passive be: he gains an extra Hit point when on Cities only (or barracks which sounds better considering he's a mechanic) I feel like Olaf should get an extra 2 days of snow when he uses Blizzard, i mean come on you think one day is gonna do anything? Drake works now, maybe allow his battleships to move since until Days of Ruin they can't move and fire in the same turn?

[@rockowlgamer631]

how to rebalance the Land, Air, and Sea units?

[@edfreak9001]

tbh just making sea units cheaper is probably enough, and maybe make Cruisers able to fire on adjacent land units akin to Anti-Airs, it wouldn't be a massive buff but apparently there is an animation for it in AW2 if you cheat to do it.

[@rockowlgamer631]

@@edfreak9001 lets see maybe the costs could be Lander- $10000 Cruiser- $15000 Submarine- $18000 Battleship- $ 22000 or $20000 whatcha think?

[@edfreak9001]

@@rockowlgamer631 probably fine

[@thelastrebel13]

Thank you mango you are appreciated 🥰🖤💜

[@SirAuron777]

Mango lol

[@plushyloverowo6730]

I'd give grit a day to day 10% indirect firepower increase because an indirect specialist should have more firepower on their indirects To balance that out, I'd reduce his firepower from snipe attack to 50% and maybe even only give a range increase of 1 and not 2

[@Rohebat]

I know this is a one year old video, but with Advance Wars being on people's minds lately (especially with the direct tomorrow), I thought I might chip in with my own opinion on this video: I don't agree with your choice of not changing Grit. Not because I believe he's too weak or strong without changes, but because having such a weak day-to-day and such a strong and cheap CO power feels to me like it doesn't match how the other COs are balanced. -20% firepower even on infantry is a lot, and only for +1 range on indirects? Yes, having more range is incredibly strong, but the tradeoff is too much, especially with how much worse it would be for Grit on small maps where he likely wouldn't be able to contest any infantry fights at all without support from indirects. Meanwhile, an extra +2 range on his indirects with his power, and +65% firepower is a LOT. Give grit the chance to have a good number of indirects and vision, either in a recon or infantry on a mountain, and chances are whatever he's attacking won't live, unless it's a medium tank on a city. Even then, it would take enough damage where its effectiveness would be greatly reduced and a second shot would likely finish it off. I think it would be much better to make Grit's day to day be much closer to his AW2 version, -10% firepower instead of -20% and only to direct units, not infantry or mechs. To balance this his CO power would need to be weakened a lot, either a hefty firepower reduction like to 25-30% instead of 65% or, to keep the ability to demolish armies with a few well-placed indirects, a price increase, something like 40,000. I know this goes against that spirit of "It if ain't broke don't change it", and balance wise Grit ain't broke, but I do think he is broke in the way that how he plays is too different on a fundamental level to other COs. A CO should be strong enough to stand on their own two feet with their day-to-day, with their CO power having the potential to turn the game around if played well. Grit doesn't fit that first criteria to me.

[@saberz6615]

I like all but eagles one I think light strike -30% def should not effect is infantry and mech instead they should gain +10% Def as they hunker down to defend. It never sat right with me that his troops who gain nothing from his power get obliterated on the counter attack. The reason they still lose 20% firepower is to show they so focused on trying to hunker down they are not organized enough to fight back properly

[@rensten4893]

Max... I think I've got an idea... Why not with the shrunken range, Max has it a little closer as well? Say that the artillery instead of having the laughable one attack block it can attack something opposing it? Basically, my thought is that you have reduced outer range but your inward range is a compensation. The artillery and rockets still can't move and attack, but it would allow Max to be unique in the fact that even his artillery hits in close range and he never knew what long range was.

[@kevinmoehring8259]

I think kanbei could be more effectively nerfed by weakening his counter attack as opposed to his defense.

[@mack_r-s]

Someone who has experience in coding should make a mod for Advance Wars 1 that has these fixes implemented. I mean, most of them are just number changes, so it wouldn't be too hard. Would it?

[@alexheller5602]

That Max nerf though

[@freshrockpapa-e7799]

13:40 What does it mean that drake increases the chance of rain by 7%? You mean each day? What's the base rate?

[@Albortomagico]

Tbh i think that like this Drake is gonna make the end of Eagle in AW2 someone who just has air units as an optional And also i would still say it's kinda bad

[@briankelly1240]

I can't agree fully on the Drake rework. Use what you have, but buff a little more, the rework you have now he is kind of screwed without any sea units. Give a little more bonus to the power, like 10% boost defense in the rain

[@HanakkoLove]

Answer: don't give max steroids. *And dont let Sturm control the cosmic pathing of meteors*

[@soulhoney1227]

Who put steroids on max meat?

[@MsLoquendo20]

Even though I find Drake as one of the most annoying CO's in the series because of its power, I don't believe its AW1 Tsunami its that bad, it can affect the capture ability of some infantry, but besides that, 1Hp of damage is hardly significant, a Kanbei and Max Tank (or grit artillery) will keep being strong with 9, 8 or even 7hp, plus, even the weak Andy can hard counter him with his hyper repair.

[@benabaxter]

I do think the reworks are a bit much. If anything, it might be appropriate to buff Drake's power by adding a Days of Ruin twist: Indirect units may attack after moving during Tsunami. If this applies to all indirect units, it might make him useful on non-naval maps!

[@mrcaos999]

Actual I think your Drake chances would make Drake unplayable without ships. If you want to removes global damage I think the best way would to buff his fuel drain in the other games. (also 1 damage is not that severe if we consider his d2d buffes the weakest unit in the game) So if I would rebalance Drake planning to remove his global damage I would make his cop still cut away 50% fuel. But would make his Scop cut away 75% fuel. Also would make it he not gets a vision debuff in rain. Also you just made Sturm -> Grimm with a 3 hp meteor strike^^

[@hahano1121]

Here's a question, how would you balance dual strike? I mean, conceptually, I like the 2 co's, particularly on two different maps, but it is pretty broken otherwise. Maybe adding a third tier of power available if the backup co is charged, or adding a smaller DTD power boost?

[@bentowers3614]

Remove Tag Powers and it becomes pretty well balanced.

[@JuanMatteoReal]

Mangs where's the meme folder link? We need that Eagle pointing at Andy meme.

[@jorgerodrigogomezflores5711]

I’d make Drake ships stronger and/or cheaper

[@NovaXXX7]

Eagle is fine just way he is... I take it this was recorded before Rivals.

[@rakaydosdraj8405]

Kanbei: +0% firepower, +20% defense, but bases produce units at 70% health. (instead of cost increase)

[@randomguy-tg7ok]

Hi, have a generic comment commenting on everything: Andy: Yeah, this makes sense. No other comment. Sami: +30% capture rate means that you have to reduce a 10hp infantry down to 5hp to stop her 2-turning a property. Max: I think you've nerfed him a bit too much. He has a day-to-day firepower boost equal to Kanbei without the defence bonus and a complete neutering of his indirects. Maybe +30% d2d firepower would be a better fit. Nell: No comment on this; Nell is one of those COs you really have to playtest rather than theorycraft. Olaf: Why not give him any firepower bonuses in the snow? Grit: Keeping his -20% infantry is interesting, but I suppose it's worth it. Kanbei: I don't agree with this. Kanbei's 120/120/120 is symmetrical. What about making his bases 20% more useless? Sonja: I agree with this, though I think Sonja should change depending on whether there's fog or not - if there's no fog, she should remove a terrain star a la AWDS, because she otherwise has no bonuses. Eagle: Note how they changed his COP to Lightning _Drive._ This means it might be its AWDS self in AW2. Drake: AWDS cruisers. That's all. Deluge is an interesting power, but I think it should be 30,000 given that it's currently got more going for it than Blizzard. Sturm: I like the idea of Vs. Mode Sturm, because higher movement and defence with lower offence is an interesting (and contradictory) set of abilities. I also think that his free movement should be kept - even if it's a bit too strong, it's sort of iconic of him. While 80/120 has a nice symmetry to it, I'd try nerfing his firepower down to 75% - and/or reducing his luck down to 0-4%. Basically, make him stunted in the offence department such that he has to rely on effective matchups to get anything done, because he simply doesn't get enough chip damage. Also have 130/80 and 80/120 Sturm be two separate COs, because they really should be able to do that.

[@iiiDandudeiii]

As much as I don't like tsunami I wouldn't want it taken away from drake. grit I would say a 50% power increase and 1 more added to his range would be fine he'd still have artillery that matches a battleship when he uses his power

[@Hone_mor2525]

As long as we can all agree to buff Sami always

[@MjrComeback]

Ive played so much advance wars and my favorite multiplayer is exactly days of ruin with no COs. But what you do here is just... yikes. "Make them all 25k and take away the unique stuff like drakes global damage" XD They should just include no CO option like days of ruin and keep the variety. Id rather buff andy by making his co power heal for +3 instead. Cheaper cost just loses variety by having sami no longer with the cheapest power