HOW TO: BLOW THROUGH DUAL-PLANE INTAKE UNDER BOOST (TURBO & BLOWER)

CAN YOU RUN A DUAL-PLANE INTAKE INTAKE WITH BOOST? DOES A BLOW-THROUGH, BOOSTED COMBINATION WORK WITH A DUAL-PLANE INTAKE? WHAT HAPPENS TO THE CYLINDER-TO-CYLINDER AF DISTRIBUTION? WHAT HAPPENS TO POWER? DOES THE INTAKE DO ANYTHING DIFFERENT UNDER BOOST? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO WHERE I TESTED A DUAL PLANE INTAKE ON A SMALL BLOCK FORD, WITH A (BLOW THROUGH CARBURETED) SUPERCHARGER AND A TURBO. THEN, TESTED A DUAL PLANE ON A BLOW-THROUGH, CARBURETED 4.8L LS APPLICATION WITH (8) INDIVIDUAL OXYGEN SENSORS FOR EACH CYLINDER. DID BOOST CHANGE THE AF MIXTURE? IT'S ALL HERE!

[@randallmason9687]

I would like to see the duel plane intake with port injection tested!

[@8power857]

Yep, build the combo strong but to drive and behave the way you want within the rev range you want then just add boost!

[@bcbloc02]

That Turbo torque is tasty!

[@darrenadams9417]

Thank You, Thank You! I’ve argued this for years! Can’t wait for the dual plane efi test

[@watsisbuttndo829]

What's happening with your nova Richard? More than happy to see a wwrd series if you start building something just for youself.

[@unclesquirrel6951]

Congratulations mr 175k 😎

[@richardholdener1727]

Thanks! 😃

[@1967davethewave]

That's a good milestone for Richard but it's going to suck for us when Motor Trend buys his show and we have to start paying to watch it!!!

[@davidcunningham00]

@@1967davethewave this is his own thing, I doubt he will sell it and I doubt they want it, he made it because he wants us to see what things do, and selling the rights to any company would tie his hands.

[@1967davethewave]

@@davidcunningham00 I hope you're right but a lot of the shows on the Motor Trend Channel were independent guys that got a chance to make money. I don't fault anyone for doing that but it just sucks for anyone who watches this stuff for free.

[@kelseyschoenbaum4681]

It's not 200k because, Squirrels.

[@DaOnE51T]

Yes. I’m running a Weiand xcelerator intake sbf 302 blow through, no issues.

[@bill2178]

we need to talk about truck norris from btr

[@bill2178]

can we talk about truck norris im dying to talk about truck norris

[@inspector13jjf]

I run a dual plane Edelbrock Performer intake that's modified to run port injection on my GMC Typhoon (which is factory turbocharged). Naturally aspirated the 4.3L V6 made 276hp/306lb-ft thru stock N/A manifolds & Y-pipe on 91 octane fuel.

[@resistorstudios]

Richard, This helps me quite a bit as I am running a carbed LT1 with the GMPP carb intake. Compression is 9:1. Planning on running pump gas. I get that it needs to be sealed, with a carb hat. What ports are necessary? Intercooler is it necessary with a blow through? How about running one bank with longer primary header tubes than the other? So that way crossover can go to other side under car to reach turbo. Will it negatively affect boost? Also will HEI work as is? Thanks

[@EricErnst]

I have a similar setup. I'm using an Edelbrock performer air-gap intake. Non-rpm. The center divider is still fully formed and not opened up like the rpm air-gap. I was looking at a tapered combo spacer for dual planes. It tapers the front and rear barrels but the center divider is fully intact. Hamburger's 3219 & 3221. 3219 is 1" and 3221 is 2". Will one of these dual plane tapered combo spacers make the intake runners seem longer and boost low end torque production? I like the idea of introducing fuel a little earlier so it has more time to cool the intake charge. The engine is a very mild roller cam 350 with tfs 175cc heads 9.17:1, comp xfi252hr cam. 202/212@.050". Holley sniper 4150 tbi. Performer air-gap intake. Long-tube headers. Vortech v3 si centrifugal supercharger. 9.5psi@5500. It's in a 3/4 ton 4x4 chevy pickup. Torque at tip-in is incredible and the boost comes on violently. I was just trying to tune the intake runners to be a little longer. Thanks for any input you've can provide.

[@maxschwerdtfeger5081]

Could you do the cheapest turbo set up for a street application like stock everything just a turbo and tune on it if that’s possible

[@craiglloyd7185]

Hi Richard, I would just like to say that I really appreciate the information that you share with us thankyou. Over the years I have been using numerous forced induction systems and I have learned a lot along the way and I would like to ask the question surrounding compression ratios from the motors you often get from the salvage yards. How are you controlling knock from these boosted applications and would it be something you could entertain discussing in a future episode. Keep up the great work and cheers.

[@richardholdener1727]

balance octane,boost, timing and charge temperature

[@stevennunez6013]

Can you do this with stock intakes especially the plastic ones to see if they hold up with age .

[@EricErnst]

The cam choice was an odd one for the LS. Especially for a small displacement. The cam was kind of mismatched for a dual plane manifold. That contributed to the low, but super flat torque curve. The manifold shined where the cam was weak and then they crossed over so that the cam was carrying the struggling intake. I'm kind of curious what curve a Fast or stock truck manifold would make with that cam. Regardless, you can't be disappointed with 800hp up top.. even if the torque is only 400 at the start of the pull.

[@markparent8912]

Hey Richard I would love to see either you or the engine masters guys do the 802 sensors on a single plane and a dual plane Carburetor verse like a Holly sniper kit To see what it does to the airfeul ratios

[@richardholdener1727]

That video is up already

[@uglyduckgarage6832]

WOW! It’s like your a mind reader I’ve been battling whether or not I wanted to switch my Holley sniper over to a single plain, from a stealth. Combo is a stick shift 302 sbf with a gt45 and Holley super sniper

[@DWBmotorsports]

If it’s a stock block keep it happy by making power lower in the rpm range with the dual plane. I’ve had bad luck with stock 8.2 decks.

[@EricErnst]

I've never seen a Ford 327. Pretty cool. Admittedly, I don't see many Fords. I'm traditionally more of a bowtie guy. You mentioned a stroker 302 so I immediately thought of a 347 or a 363 but 327 was not on my radar.

[@Boaty_McBoatface_]

A 3.25" stroke is typical of 331 stroker kits that come with .030" over pistons. With stock bore you get the 327.

[@rotaryray]

I would like to see Holly sniper throttle body fuel injection on a dual plane boosted setup. I understand there is distribution problems with TBI that a carburetor does not seem to have. Would like to see the results and issues

[@jnljnl8485]

You just cant get the fuel flow to make them work. They would need more injectors. They just dont deliver the fuel for 1000hp.

[@SubePelayo928]

Me too, as I just purchased the Holley sniper EFI kit

[@michaelblacktree]

Looking forward to the dual plane intake with EFI. 😎

[@garyvaughan7748]

Yep!

[@Dannymclovin]

are these test all without a carb spacer? id like to use my dual plane without having to run any type of spacer due to hood clearance , and cant afford a single plane intake at the moment for my blowthrough setup

[@halfbakedcoatingsllc9911]

I was told by many many guys NOT to run a dual plane as some cylinders will run leaner than others expecially when over 8psi Kevin van noy even told me that

[@jameslong1132]

I wander if notching out the diverter to help the rich cylinders?

[@witcher71]

Lean cylinders were out on the ends? First and last pair?

[@danielj3230]

Mr. Holdener, would staggered jetting help those a/f numbers be more equal? I don’t mean staggered primary vs secondaries but rather 2 different jets on the primary and/or 2 different jets on the secondaries. Thank you. I love your videos btw.

[@richardholdener1727]

its not that easy

[@MrBlackbutang]

Of course they do ! Don’t know why would think they wouldn’t. Air is still going into the same place. Da !

[@johnpino5150]

Or a chevy Tr1 or try with a bread box tunnel ram thrown in. Tunnels tams under boost on on the magnum. Or nitrous on tunnel Tam with plates vs nozzles vs air cleaner style lol

[@PontiacLS]

I ran a dual plane blow thru deal 88mm turbo 5.3 hole 5/7 when lean every time . End up torching a piston .So real world testing says no dual plane for me with boost. Single plane same every thing no problem.

[@johnpino5150]

Missed tall tunnel ram with boost. Small plenum amd large plenum. Non of that single carb stuff either. Use a edlebrock mopar 340 street tunnel ram TR5

[@boblendabarker750]

Quick question, do the tbi set ups offer the same cooling as a carb? Or because of the difference in how the fuel is introduced negate that?

[@richardholdener1727]

similar

[@bluecollardaily2676]

On the LS, I really wish you had named the 2 lean cylinders in the mid range?!!!

[@Cammy_The_Camaro]

Hi Richard! Would be a good test to see single plane vs dual plan cylinder distribution. I would be concerned about a single cylinder being burnt from a fuel distribution problem. If a single plane offers better fuel distribution than a dual plane i would take the less power down low. Just my 2 cents as i have a boosted dual plane build currently. Love your channel.

[@richardholdener1727]

that vid is up-both are terrible

[@Cammy_The_Camaro]

@@richardholdener1727 do you have a link to the video? I'd love to see it. Thanks again 🙏

[@Cammy_The_Camaro]

​@@richardholdener1727I only say this because I saw your 6.0 ls single plane test is much better grouped together but I see you only compared two cylinders in the video.

[@thomasbonzi7767]

Are the numbers on the graphs comparing dual and single plain or just w/and w/out forced induction

[@richardholdener1727]

I have run that test both na and boosted

[@utahcountypicazospage5412]

This box for the carb is awesome does it still exist and can you buy it separate

[@richardholdener1727]

yes

[@brianbaney2360]

Can u do a test of what a 5.3 would respond better to a h pipe or x pipe 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@richardholdener1727]

minimal difference in power-x sounds better

[@1967davethewave]

Why when boosting a fuel injected engine do you need to increase the injector size by double or so but when boosting a carb it seems that the same cfm for a naturally aspirated engine seems to work well? I've seen some 650 cfm blow through carbs used in tests and they make more hp than I would have thought they were good for.

[@richardholdener1727]

WITH BOOST THEY FLOW A LOT MORE

[@bill2178]

the cfm of the air doesnt change the density changes and the inertia pulls more fuel in

[@jeremypike9153]

Carburetors regulate the amount of fuel injection by vacuum or boost signal obviously you're going to have to adjust the jet sizes for boost on an engine. The main distinction to be made though with carburetion is a blow through carb or a draw through carb. A blow through carb is under the boost pressure a draw through carb isn't it is purely operating off of vacuum. A draw through carb is what is used on an old school blower like an 871 671 etc. A blow through carb is set up to be ran with boost blowing through it by a turbocharger or a Paxton style supercharger.

[@1967davethewave]

@@richardholdener1727 Cool, thanks!!!

[@ThePaulv12]

I'll have a go at explaining this. I don't exactly know how Holley rate their carbs but my CFM rating in this example is rated at 1x atmosphere or 14.7psi. So adding another atmosphere to create 2x atmospheres - so boost - should in theory make the carb capacity double. At 2x atmospheres a 650 CFM carb now becomes a 1300 CFM carb. There are limitations and it doesn't quite work like this in reality but the concept is plain enough. So it's pretty simple when it all boils down. For our naturally aspirated 650 CFM carb (or 1x atmosphere) works something like this: The carb float bowl has 1x atmospheric pressure acting on it and is connected to the carb Venturi via a discharge passage with a jet as a restriction. The motor at wide open throttle creates airflow through the carb Venturi which generates a low pressure vacuum right inside the Venturi itself - well below the full 1x atmosphere pressure acting in the carb float bowl. As mentioned the 1x atmosphere float bowl pressure is far greater than the low Venturi vacuum so the fuel flows via the jets up the discharge nozzle into the low pressure vacuum created by the Venturi where it mixes with the air going into the engine. The atmosphere actually pushes the fuel into the Venturi. So blow-through carbs still work exactly the same. This example is for +14.7psi so double NA or 2x atmospheres. Everything is now doubled from the above example. Double the atmospheres = double the carb CFM = double Venturi vacuum = double the float bowl pressure = double the fuel flow = double the power. Yipeeeeeee..... Internally within the carb, since everything is exactly doubled, all the critical ratios are still maintained. That's how a 650CFM carb works under boost because in theory it sorta becomes 1300CFM and creates more power than one might think they're good for as you put it. As mentioned everything kinda doubles LOL. I thoroughly recommend reading the SA publication Carter Carburetors. It takes the reader from the simplest carb principal to the most advanced - including boost. Even though the book is oriented to Carter carbs it doesn't matter as the concepts are applicable to all carbs and that book is highly entertaining and very well written also. It is a hoot of a read.

[@Patrick-is4ym]

Did you have egt sensors on each cylinder on any of these?

[@richardholdener1727]

WE HAD 8 O2s

[@henrysmith8012]

I run my Procharger with a Victor Jr. and it's great. I will stick with the single plane.

[@richardholdener1727]

it does, it just makes less power down low than the dual plane

[@michaelangelo8001]

Why *wouldn't* it work..?

[@trentonpaul598]

yes without watching.

[@dielauwen]

what?

[@jimbrown563]

Why do You need to put up with all the problems of a Dual-Plane-Intake when you're already making more power than You can put to the ground ? A FLAT smooth Torque-Curve is worth far more than the extra ~20-Horsepower and peaky Torque-Curve caused by a Dual-Plane. I prefer a Single-Plane just for the smoothness of engine operation, and I don't need ~20 more Horsepower BELOW my Torque-Converter stall speed. When You learn how to Tune Fuel-Injection and Timing- Maps, the whole question quickly becomes a moot point. I'm already heavily into Torque-Management pulling Timing in First and Second Gears, that puts me over any legal Speed-Limit in about 5-Seconds, so what's the point ? Unless You want to drive around Town on Drag-Radials, now that might be different. . . .

[@trentdawg2832]

Very good point

[@richardholdener1727]

for most people,(not drag racers), the extra torque offered below 5000 rpm is much more useful than the extra (smooth) hp offered at the top of the rev range

[@jimbrown563]

@@richardholdener1727 I agree that for people who just want a quick "bolt-on" boost in power, with an otherwise stock Engine and Drivetrain, a Dual-Plane will provide real gains, right where they can use it, but when You take the time (and money) to optimize all of the other factors that go into a fun street car, mostly Cam, Transmission Tuning and Lock-up-High Stall Converter, a Dual-Plane-Intake is more aggravation than it's worth.

[@rotaxtwin]

Doesn't work on AMCs though!

[@baileydbenson1]

OK, I'll take the bait..... Why does it NOT work on AMC's?

[@rotaxtwin]

@@baileydbenson1 just kidding. Throwing it out there cause Richard didn't have a 360 out of an old Matador taxi to test alongside.

[@unclesquirrel6951]

Personally I blame squirrels

[@johnhull6363]

Loser

[@madmod]

@@johnhull6363 Internet tuff guy

[@randallmason9687]

What flavor Hater-aid are You drinking?

[@waynereid9881]

Keep an eye on the chipmunks also...

[@danielcarroll5667]

@@waynereid9881 Agreed!!!!!!

[@shredfest30]

800hp, 4.8..? GEEEEZ.. that's killer power