How to BURN OUT Open Source devs: After SENDING a patch, IBM asks me to also do a TESTCASE for FREE!

How to #BURNOUT #OpenSource #developers: After SENDING a patch, IBM asks me to also do a TEST for FREE! :-/ You can support my work at: / renerebe github.com/spo... or ordering stuff you need via Amazon: services.exactc... exactcode.com t2sde.org rene.rebe.de

[@ivankmeto]

I burned out and stopped caring years ago. You can report the issue, file proper and verbose bug report, fix the issue yourself, comply with all the coding guidelines, send in the patch and at the end of the process is some person who just rejects it because of some very stupid reason or he tells you there's more work you have to do (for free) if you want it merged. In other cases you won't get reply for years. Just say no. (F)OSS should be more open and somewhat fun to work on, instead you get coding bureaucrats who drain life out of you. No thanks, it's not worth it.

[@ok-tr1nw]

At that point i would just send the patches to downstream as a revenge

[@sealoftime]

Agree with no to bureaucracy and tons of custom shitty tools for filing in bugs and reviewing code. BUT guidelines are must-have, tests are nice-to-have (for very important contributions, and bug fixes I wouldn't mind writing them myself in a position of maintainer), because this is what makes OSS better in the long run. Without it communal efforts will just end up with a mess like X11

[@muhdiversity7409]

This was my last employer before I threw in the towel and retired. The amount of bureaucracy from assholes who have never coded one day in their life was something to behold. It would take a day or more to get to the point of testing a one line change. Someone mentioned the soviet union, yeah the entire country is turning into that under the guidance of corporation and garbage government.

[@haroldcruz8550]

One practical solution that I can think of is some type of mentoring for newbies who are interested and passionate about a project. It doesn't have to be a one on one type of mentoring, just a way to impart the experience and knowledge of grade A developers to their less experienced peers. One such great example is this channel, right now how many senior experienced developers has channels like renerebe? I can only count them in one hand. More developers less load

[@echoarts3366]

I'm with the guy in the video, I won't push upstream unless it's a small project and I'm talking one on one

[@zelllers]

You don't know me, this is a very one-sided relationship, but I love you and appreciate all you do.

[@myphone4590]

Is this Red IBM Hat being terrible, or the FSF being terrible? (Ok, "more than".) Stallman drove so many developers to LLVM since ~2007 I'm surprised gcc still has any. Half of cygnus left to form code sourcery and then half of that half was at mentor graphics and I lost track...

[@foobarf8766]

IBM haven't given up on Power. Another thing this shows is how x86 is the travelled path. No one experiences this level of pain without Itanium or Power machines.

[@platin2148]

At this point it’s better it burns down and one creates a fork that doesn’t make these stupid “fixes” with then slowly moving away from the dumpster fire that GCC/Linux already is.

[@JoshtheFifith]

send this video to joshua Fluke

[@frankgerlach4467]

Thanks for your massive efforts and energy, but don't play Jesus for a corrupt corporation like IBM.

[@bobweiram6321]

Open source is poorly incentivized. It😊 quickly degrades into grift and indentured servitude.

[@Angryblueflamingo98]

Yeah that's a ridiculous ask, you would think a well-paid presumably pretty distinguished IBM engineer would be able to fix whatever nitpicks he has about your patch in an hour or two lol. These guys get paid a lot of money and are very skilled, they can do this themselves, especially when someone just gave you the solution. It doesn't get any easier than that, refactoring a working solution.

[@CrucialFlowResearch]

No, they dont have any skills, they probably fired and replaced everyone with skill for political reasons

[@SergiobgEngineer]

Actually, nits about formatting should just be done automatically. No need to burden anyone with formatting rules.

[@firetruck988]

@@SergiobgEngineer yeah, it took longer to write those "nits" than it would have to fix them, IDK what's wrong with these "professionals".

[@replikvltyoutube3727]

Well on job, when you implement a feature, you have to do it fully with integration, tests and such. But I understand the frustration, it's OK to say that to a dev team teammate, NOT to independent volunteer.

[@frankgerlach4467]

All we can hear is IBM treating engineers like $hit.

[@maze7_7]

It's always nice to have fixes accepted upstream, because if they change something it will probably conflict with your local fix, however it does take a lot of effort to get things accepted. Just continue sending your fixes and state that you will not follow up on it. If they care, they'll take care of it. If they don't care, they don't deserve any more effort on your part anyway. Thank you for your work!

[@Batwam0]

Exactly, you’ve developed the patch for your system and taken the extra step to share it and even chased them. You’ve done your part, not worth bending over backwards for this.

[@Bruno_Haible]

Many FOSS projects, from GCC to xz, are understaffed. Their request for patches via the mailing list, for a unit test, etc. is meant to ramp you up as a contributor and co-developer. When I have no interest in becoming a co-developer of that project, I tell the people explicitly: I have done my duty by reporting the bug, now all the rest, from the unit test to the doc update, is your turn. It works! When you give them a finger and they want to pull your whole hand, just say NO!

[@frankgerlach4467]

You are so unfair to the shareholders of Amazon, Google, IBM, HP and so on ! All they want your helping hand for a few thousand working hours and you deny that ! What an egotist you are !

[@GnomeEU]

I reported some bug to Microsoft last month: "Here you can make this lazy load and be 100ms faster." The dev in charge closed my ticket "NO CHANGES PLANED AT THE MOMENT", lol. In every big company there are some *weird* people working. Don't even bother with pull requests unless you know its a chill team.

[@PragMero]

so I assume that's how Discord/reddit moderators behave daily huh

[@kng1433-g4x]

To be honest as a student who likes tinkering with os, compilers, linux, this is really so demotivating I hope this video (and others) make positive impact in workings of these organisations. I never imagined It could take such a huge toll on mental health. Hey, take care wishing you good luck.

[@MatthewHolevinski]

get out while you still can, be a plumber or something

[@SlinkyD]

I started cutting grass with Arborist as the end goal ​@@MatthewHolevinski

[@austist]

I think its only rewarding if you have the right expectations. I am also a student and im in the same boat, im more security oriented but this is still sad to see. I hope the newer gen of workers can phase out this attitude in companies.

[@blobert1461]

Keep in mind this dude fixes stuff for architectures whose vendors abandoned them 20-30 years ago. His niche is very niche. I was playing around with some of that PowerPC and SGI stuff back in college and even back then it was legacy hw. It's like buying a bunch of of these enterprise grade 128 cpu ARM systems today and then supporting them for free in 30 years basically when the vendor won't even exist anymore and the world at large has moved on to other architectures.

[@JTordur]

Someone should organize a FOSS Strike, I don't think the suits in the big companies actually have any idea of the amount of volunteer work they benefit from. Striking would really show them that. By the way, FOSS developers working these projects for free, you really are the giants upon which shoulders we stand on.

[@fluffyunicorn7155]

My solution is to have as few dependencies as possible. If you have a dependency where upstreaming bugfixes is impossible or takes too long, try to replace it. There are cases where this does not work, of course. I wrote iOS software ten years ago and found bugs in Apple's libraries. In the beginning, I filed them with the official bug tracker. I never got any response. After a while, I discovered this was normal and experienced Apple developers would never open a bug in the Apple bug tracker.

[@Titere05]

Thus Apple software has no bugs. And when they end up driving away all third-party hardware service technicians also, then their devices won't fail as well.

[@human-yy3xt]

@@Titere05 genius 200iq move

[@valentinziegler1649]

Next level multi billion dollar cooperation: pay premium support fees for them to even consider your bug reports (i.e., Microsoft model)

[@_KondoIsami_]

They are treating you like you are some junior dev at their company, they are not giving you much consideration. I would have just told them "No, I won't be including a testcase, but feel free to create one." and I would move on to do other things.

[@MatthewHolevinski]

I would of talked so much trash in that bugzilla, ask someone to CC other people, lolwut? No they can monitor the tracker themselves, oh I would of went off.

[@Iaotle]

it's "would have"

[@MatthewHolevinski]

@@Iaotle i would've went plumb the fuck off the God damn chain, is that better?

[@Iaotle]

@@MatthewHolevinski I mean you used it wrong twice, I had to do it, it triggers me :)

[@EraYaN]

Thing is you would have just been banned.

[@MatthewHolevinski]

@@EraYaN you can't ban everyone all of the time forever ad infinitum

[@omarjimenezromero3463]

this type of things motivate me to be a hacker and target big a$$ companies, because they are this lame.

[@theevilcottonball]

Make sure to submit your vulnerabilites with a test case :-)

[@ThePredator1997]

This is so disrespectful 😤. Thanks for making this video. So much essential labour isn't paid.

[@crackz6885]

The nit picking stuff seems insane to me, they are getting free work... They should do those changes themselves. On a side note, love watching your content, very inspiring!

[@MoreReneRebe]

Thanks! 🖖

[@LuccDev]

This sucks and it's sad to see. As you said, this is free work, and sometimes companies make money off of it. I understand open source devs that just burn out and leave everything! I'm curious - but this is personal so feel free to ignore me - what's your motivation for not dropping it earlier ? Do you think that some people will need it or that it's a very necessary fix etc. ? It makes me curious.

[@roberth6575]

Yeah, that does seem inappropriate. Worse than ignoring value (which decays like bitrot), they are not even aware of the value... which means they don't actually have a wholistic view of their own product (only those parts that are critical to their business). When they do finally address the matter, it's like they are sacraficing their time to do a code review, and addressing you as a lazy employee not following procedure, or an intern that should know better and is not following their onboarding directions.

[@frankgerlach4467]

IBM Is a company run by Cynical Beancounters. Never expect anything good from them.

[@Schadowofmorning]

Every time I hear stuff about how linux is maintained & developed a part of me dies. This bureaucracy around getting one thing fixed would make the soviets proud.

[@firetruck988]

Open source seems like a bit of a scam, where you're "paid in exposure" for having your name on a project. If they're so particular about how they want their codebase you'd think they'd be able to make the edits themselves.

[@lawrencemanning]

To be fair, that problem is much more endemic to working on OSS stuff “cared for” by big business. You wouldn’t see this on small, more average, projects. But yes that attitude is scummy. They should be saying “ta very much for doing the hard bit, we will find somone to tart up your patch to meet our pedantic and pointless standards”.

[@ybvb]

Please take a step back and assess if ridiculing these big corporations, making interesting content that has people laughing about them makes way more sense (and fun!) to you than to accept this position where they have all the moderating power over you... Please give yourself more respect, tolerate no bullshit from these people or structures. TLDR: Ridicule these companies in a way stockholders can comprehend the faults and push for changes by public pressure and ridicule. + Have more fun.

[@James-l5s7k]

IBM to devs: "Can I have 15k for free plz?"

[@jonathanhirschbaum6754]

I love those beautiful oddballs of open source community. Unconditionally. I'm pretty sure Rene, you have no idea how many people owes you endless thanks and moral support

[@austist]

i havent utilized any of your work, but as a viewer I respect what you do and appreciate it. You do good work Rene, and you're a selfless soul. Do what brings you peace and contention .

[@PragMero]

Have you seen the "Open source exploitation" video on the NDC Conference youtube channel? that sh*t is bleak man. I'm a young (not so young) 23 yo dev and seeing this kind of treatment to open source developers just hurts my heart :C

[@xyzabc123-o1l]

open source software developers need to become open source hardware developers and even open source manufacturers of simple chips eventually. it is too inefficient and unpredictable to work with big corporations these days

[@lawrencemanning]

I suspect you could get quite far with a RISC-V core in hardware strapped to a large FPGA. Video that wasn’t slow as hell would be a challenge, but I suspect a passable Linux desktop is doable these days. This is probably doable with off the shelf parts and doesn’t even involve any custom ICs. Case in point: some dude has has hardware accelerated Quake running on his own FPGA based graphics card.

[@xyzabc123-o1l]

@@lawrencemanning I totally understand and support this approach you've mentioned, but I am going to get your feedback on something controversial: my opinion is that the industry is so fragmented, with so many competing APIs, drivers, versions, specifications, instruction sets, peripherals, etc etc etc, that it would actually be easier at this point to go back to making hardware that is purpose built for one thing and is streamlined enough that the entire thing can fit into one person's head. i know this is an outlandish idea, and it doesnt need to be the "be all and end all" of computing, but there really is no reason that i as a person who does game programming needs to understand the leaking abstractions of 17 different hardware companies who don't support their own stuff. it seems much more productive to have a cheap chip with no proprietary blobs and simple I/O interfaces, such that good software can be written on it and it can be manufactured and supported indefinitely, rather than chasing the next new platform filled with warts. This is totally different from T2's goal, there is no problem with that :)

[@IARRCSim]

The opposite might also be true. If unpaid volunteers are treated this badly and it is basically human nature to take for granted what you get for free, the volunteers should give up when they feel burned out. Save that patience, passion, and energy for other projects that are more appreciative of your contributions because there are still some out there. When you're asked for work and paid for it, the paying customer tends to appreciate your contribution and time a lot more. That's why they asked for the help and are paying for it. When you hand someone something without asking for any money in exchange, they get picky and unappreciative because they feel like you want them to take it more than they want to accept your offer. The frustrating situations mentioned in the video are almost completely due to his eagerness to work for free and fix problems they don't see as a priority. It is also an example of how no good deed goes unpunished. More good doers will only lead to more burned out people. Many open source projects are lead by people who are as unappreciative and picky as IBM was described in this video. That problem is not unique to private-company-lead projects but is quite unique to unpaid volunteer work.

[@xyzabc123-o1l]

@@IARRCSim What you said I mostly agree with, but I disagree with the part about his eagerness to work for free. If people like Rene didn't exist, as in, if people only explicitly worked if they knew they are guaranteed to be paid, then we would be even more behind than we are currently. The people who control the dollars are notoriously bad at picking projects to fund. Rene's work has unintended beneficial effects many years after it is performed, and people who want to see more of it happily donate. It's no surprise that IBM wouldn't cough up the money, they aren't known for being altruistic nor efficient :)

[@malmiteria]

not working for free is normal... you don't owe them anything

[@virkony]

Aren't those "nit" comments? I.e. they are not necessary to be addressed. And yes, reviewer could make changes themselves with lesser effort since they know what they want. Suggestion to learn all the hoops might be targeted to new contributors that plan to be more consistent contributor.

[@AndreaGarcia-qp6ks]

Hi René. Thank you for your video, very enlightening. Could you share which font family/typography you use in the terminal? I used to have it in Slackware, but I forgot the name

[@MoreReneRebe]

Thank, of course, I'm using Comic Code ;-)

[@blackfox5413]

I thought novadays we have tools to automatically format code to a specified standard, why the fuck anyone has to nitpick on a fucking line's formatting

[@TymexComputing]

You should reply to that mainteiner that you will do it and dont do it for 2 years :)

[@XantheFIN]

One word added and automatically code line is too long.. omg. Maybe it was his code line and didn't want others touch it LOL.

[@ChristopherCharman]

Don’t waste your time Rene - maybe just train an AI to handle upstream interactions and uploads, or just keep it in T2.

[@FlamerOHR]

good on you for still caring and pushing it upstream. I've tried contributing to open source projects, which were also commercially backed by a company, and the attitude I get back from them is exactly like this - they expect our efforts to match their's in every level and overlook the very premise of the contribution, to fix the bug found! I gave up after a year, I'm not even getting a thank you, nevermind getting paid for contributing.

[@kristofkiekens902]

Man the shit we had with f*ING old Linux kernel from Nvidia, open source is a mess.

[@howyoutubesmells]

dont do more, make it public, see people laughing at them, profit.

[@frankgerlach4467]

Stop working for free. Stop working on the Linux behemoth, go for tiny Oberon.

[@danilopedraza]

this was hard to watch. I hope you the best, love your videos.

[@mariojr]

The power of "opensores" 🤣

[@siriusleto3758]

It is an honor to work for free for rich and giant companies.

[@nikbl4k]

i really wana get into kernel debugging and checking linux releases. i read the changelogs the day they come out, but i cant find anybody to show me the ropes on technical kernel testing you know...

[@michaelthompson7217]

the thing with these corporations is the people maintaining these projects probably only superficially care about open source (like me) and cannot empathize with anything you say in this video. your frustration was really well communicated in this video

[@raccoons_stole_my_account]

As a fellow developer I sympathize with you. Open source model IS broken. Every firm I've been in I try to push for paying for at least some projects that we use.

[@noname-ll2vk]

It's hard to know where guys like this are coming from. I tend to associate open source with corporations trying to get work for free. I try to avoid this ambiguity by being clear I'm doing Free Software. Most patches per se don't interest me because they are usually badly done. But I try to correct the real issue behind the patch idea as quickly as possible. The projects I like tend to be small groups who do something really well. But doing any free work for corporations or for profit entities? Not going to happen.

[@erikschiegg68]

Maybe they have all long fingernails, which makes it difficult to physically code with a keyboard... hey, have a nice day!

[@MoreReneRebe]

my fingernails are often longer because I work too much and just have no time to trim them every other day. Also plays guitar better ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@orlovskyconsultinggbr2849]

As software consulting company, this really disturbing story, so major companies try to abuse the opensource developers? Well how i would reacted in such case: 1. I would tell the package maintainer : "Its your responsibility to fix the bug, i provided solution dont like ok, but i will tell my opensource community about your stubbornness and will write official letter to your company" 2. So you try to fix bugs all the times, why not write into upstream , that fixing that bug will cost so much money and see the reaction, if nobody interested to pay for that , well why you should do it for free? 3. Maybe you offer premium services for you subscribers which would work with you in pair programming style , so that you get solve problem more efficiently.

[@Nunya58294]

Those guys can stick it where the sun don't shine. If they need more done they should be paying you for your time and work

[@micmaci9343]

How do you manage back pain ? - Do not take it so serious ;)

[@RealEngineer]

Man, love all your videos. One day I have the C skills as you do! (I hope) 🎉

[@w3w3w3]

interesting video as always

[@SoulExpension]

We're talking the political guidance council behind gcc. Glibc a flaming trainwreck. Why people have turned away from that language. But if you consider the corner you got backed into, the sunsetting of hardware support. It was a default problem picked up in Apple forums also regarding Xcode. And you have big tech riding on top of open source. They have little ways of making you buy new. It just reinforces why people have moved to Rust or some other dev stack.

[@foobarf8766]

Rust produces SIGILL on power5 its actually worse for deprecation of h/w than gcc/glibc

[@SlinkyD]

I woulda sent in a freelance developer contract with the stipulation that "test case will be provided when contract is signed & verified". That's how I translate "fuck you, pay me" to corporate speak. If they can't write a test case since you provided the fix, they're useless devs/engineers.

[@IARRCSim]

Writing and sending the contract would be a waste of even more time because they won't agree to it. It seems very clear that they don't appreciate his contribution or the value of the problem he was fixing. They'd rather ignore his messages than spend 1 hour of their time or $1 of freelancer pay to get his fix merged into the product. I wish there was a way to know which companies or projects don't genuinely want open source contributions before risking time to fix a bug. Every time I consider contributing to another person's project on github, I'm not sure if they'll seriously consider my contribution or give me the shaft like mentioned in this video. Checking how frequently PR's get merged and how recently changes were made is an indicator but I've been unpleasantly surprised many times like mentioned in this video.

[@rkan2]

Stupid question here: but wouldn't some AI tool helped to learn how to use or even produce the test with dejagnu?

[@MoreReneRebe]

🤣

[@NeryCabrera-n9v]

What keyboard? I'm on the market looking for a new one, and liking the ASMR

[@MoreReneRebe]

Filco Mayestouch 2, Chery MX Brown. But they also have a v3 now and maybe I like Silent Red more or other more smooth silent switches. Also the Tex Yoda II is amazing: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aaDNlZ2HpNuBhbM

[@ecosta]

I do open source as a hobby and I work for big companies to pay my rent. I can say both really suck in terms of receiving contributions. And bigger projects/companies are worst. I could rant on all sort of contributions that I gave up because someone added weirdly specific requirements. And, again, that on OSS and private companies. Insanity...

[@opfijqwhnien]

Wild. Danke für den Einblick

[@JustLennyBenny]

Truly nice work, I appreciate your efforts and time!

[@chounoki]

This happened multiple times on me. Of course I ignored their request every time. Take my patch or don't take it, I don't care, I just fork the repository for myself with my patch so it doesn't affect me even if they don't take it.

[@etterathe]

"code therapy", huh? xd

[@TheLinuxGallery-qz2vs]

With the kinds of people they are; I think you should send it upstream once, and just keep those records showing that you did, in fact, submit security patches and bug fixes upstream. Their response is their response, and rejecting the patches is equivalent to declining to use your work altogether. ALWAYS be ready to show a judge and jury that you said your software needs to be updated, and Red Hat explicitly declined to do so.

[@ybvb]

Dear René, your video is on point, bravo, dankeschön. One question I got: Why maintain Itanium? Also, I don't think Ayn Rand has the answers but this is the perfect Atlas Shrugged example. Let the stuff crash and burn, why else would they even care?

[@foobarf8766]

I feel you, gave up on rust on ppc64 due to SIGILL on power5 because the AltiVec instructions are not mandatory in the arch, just common (embedded power seems special/rare).

[@roymarshall_]

Is it considered unethical to ask for a fee for doing things like this? It shouldnt be. A big corporation should be able to spend some money to make these requests. I feel like there should be a specific process set up for this.

[@TymexComputing]

So this is the place where Free market Hits Free/ open software :)

[@liquidsnake6879]

Github fixed all these kinds of problems years ago, why are people still using mailing lists like we're still in the 1990s?

[@MoreReneRebe]

this is already on bugzilla like "GitHub" does not help if projects and maintainers don't care and process the patches, ...! :-/

[@Selbstdenkender]

Not a big coder here, just an everyday Linux user for more than 5 years now, I found this video very insteresting and well explained. Did not expect it to be like this, I thought FOSS devs would get more respect and pay.

[@rodloh4764]

Hola mucho gusto y encantado de conocerlo, soy una persona totalmente ignorante de la materia que tuvo una recomendación inusual de KZbin, le surgió curiosidad por ver el vídeo y no entiende nada del asunto desde el punto de vista técnico. 👋🏼 Me podría responder si fuera tan amable ¿por qué es que usted, o los desarrolladores de código libre, no mandan al diablo a esa gente de IBM cuando se han propasado con su generosidad de hacer código gratis en vez de estar quemándose por la situación? Al leer el título me pareció curioso el vídeo aunque lo vea como chino, ya que de manera central para mí la situación es "empresa pide el brazo al que le dió la mano haciendo código gratis de software de su negocio, el hombre por alguna razón no se puede negar y aún no los ha mandado al diablo, y por ello le podría dar burn out" Espero que KZbin tenga traductor para que una persona en inglés también pueda leer, entender mi comentario y pueda responderme Saludos

[@tiloiam]

I hate how true this is :(

[@CaptainWumbo]

This is interesting on two points: I remember being asked in an interview once if I had ever submitted to open source before. I told them no, I don't work for free. Not that I don't create and share things for free sometimes, but I don't do work for others for free. 2. What you're experiencing is actually how these companies work internally (and all the same criticisms are valid). They are doing the review the same way they do internal pull requests, with stupid nitpicky comments included. And what you suggested actually does make a lot of sense, if a reviewer wants changes to the code they should make the changes themselves and ship it. Because that would realign motivations where nobody wants to waste their own time on stuff that doesn't matter but they are happy to waste someone else's time.

[@lawrencemanning]

Curious what feedback you got back on that first point? My answer, FWIW, would be : in the event that I would have learned something from doing that, or otherwise grown in my abilities, then the answer is probably yes. Like you I don’t work for free. But if solving a problem for someone else would cause me to learn something and is generally interesting work, I’d share stuff. But I ain’t jumping through lame arse hoops around formatting my documentation the right way, or writing test cases I deem as redundant. This is more true the larger the maintainer of that software. I’m more likely ti be thorough if it’s just some Joe’s stuff.

[@nexttonic6459]

:( this is sad..

[@Kersich86]

why are you pissed you fixed it for you you told people about it done. why do you even loose time with it.

[@kirianguiller5130]

My guess : To make the companies realize what they are doing is bad for open source and will lead to burnout of devs. This way, OP can have an impact on this problem and hopefully improve the open source ecosystem as a whole !

[@ericpmoss]

Rich people get rich and stay rich by getting other people to do the work.

[@donaldkeith139]

Sign me up

[@duytdl]

I just fork it and make it my own, and then send them a link in case they wanna incorporate my fixes. Of course I have to keep my fork in sync, but that's much more in my control (and a lot easier now with actions/CI).

[@MoreReneRebe]

I don't for all project for a handful of fix patches each just along m applying patches on release tarballs is more scalable than that.

[@JonathanWakely]

You want to be a port maintainer for GCC but you're not prepared to learn the project policies regarding patch submission, how the tests work, or how the code should be formatted? To be honest, that's not a good start.

[@MoreReneRebe]

It is a general time wasting bad practise pattern in the open source world. I also don't want to be a gcc maintainer. Just without Mr they will delete ia64 support. So someone gotta do what someone has to do.

[@zxGHOSTr]

I am definitely not going to do FOSS and maintain stuff.

[@marksmithcollins]

Imagine changing name IBM to Stallman Seems different

[@HUEHUEUHEPony]

just fork it bro

[@ik71399]

Wow, wie dreist 😮

[@LedoCool1]

They're doing it on purpose.

[@Gabehell]

Hey Rene! i'm hoping you'll be more relaxed after a few days lol I always follow the golden rule that my teachers and some members of O/S groups taught me... if someone “asks” something on something that is O/S, it is no longer O/S.

[@MarkoL-z7o]

next

[@amenbefekadu7994]

can u teach me?

[@MoreReneRebe]

I do here, on TY and Twitch: twitch.tv/rxrbln

[@thehen101]

just write it correctly in the first place

[@MoreReneRebe]

Tell it then ;-)

[@jochinq3116]

# Würdest du mir helfen, ein einfaches Treiberinterface zu implementieren? Muss auch nicht umsonst sein... Aber, der Treiber wäre für Windoof...

[@MoreReneRebe]

Danke. Bin aber "leider" nicht auf Windows spezialisiert.

[@jochinq3116]

@@MoreReneRebe Kein Problem, kann ich verstehen^^

[@bernardobuffa2391]

I do care about code line max length (in my case 80). It made the code easy to read, specially if you have to read itin a mobile phone (for reviewing for a pull request for instance)

[@not_ever]

I care about it too after working at a place where engineers more senior in terms of time spent at the company had widescreen monitors and wrote horribly long lines of code but everyone else had tiny square monitors and had to side scroll for an eternity to read their bilge. There was no source control and no code standard in place there either which is still quite common still in certain industries.

[@bernardobuffa2391]

@@not_ever Indeed another valid point to limit those monster lines.... I usually work with the laptop screen and suffer those too every day

[@Ravi.Kumar-]

When you are going to start tutorials?

[@MoreReneRebe]

I thought I kinda do on this yt and twitch channels :-)

[@Ravi.Kumar-]

@@MoreReneRebe pls 🙏🏻

[@lemmewatchstuff6967]

This simply is the professional way to work as a software developer. Provide code with tests and documentation.

[@MoreReneRebe]

Sure, for free. For other big cooperation project. For which they had no test before.

[@not_ever]

Yes that is true but the that isn't the main issue here. This patch took years and every time changes were requested they were implemented but still it is always another step, another request ad nauseum.

[@JoHn-if6wy]

This guys website is a phishing page and his download is a compressed malware.

[@MoreReneRebe]

?

[@Top1-p2x]

it is perfectly reasonable to ask for tests.

[@MoreReneRebe]

Then write one yourself. What are your open source contributions so far? www.twitch.tv/rxrbln/v/2161849618?sr=a&t=3s

[@Top1-p2x]

@@MoreReneRebe I dont care about YOUR code. I have made few contributions. No one owes you anything. If you dont care to write tests, why should anyone care about your contributions?

[@blackfox5413]

@@Top1-p2x Devs did not wrote any, why he has to do?

[@Top1-p2x]

@@blackfox5413 this just shows your immaturity

[@rinat2160]

There are reasons why upstreams will often ask you to fix formatting on your own. Imagine following cases. First case is, they change the patch for you while keeping you as the author. Which is morally and legally ambiguous. If they change it and somehow introduce bugs, you will be recorded in history as the one introduced the bug. Most of the time it's not a big deal, but still smells. Second case is, they add another patch on top of yours. That just looks ugly. Because why do it if a cleaner solution is possible. Third case is, they just throw you out from authors completely and steal your intellectual property without even mentioning you. Yeah, that's also not good. The cleanest solution is to have the original author to make necessary cosmetic changes. As for a testcase, you are right. They could do it themselves. But again, that's more commits than is necessary, as everything can be done in one. Another reason corporation employees may dodge picking up the baton is that they have a lot to do already. Managers, KPI and so on. If their KPI does not include helping people on the internet to prepare patches, they won't have much incentives to help. On the side note, maybe you are in a mindset to properly finish the patch, while they are seeing this particular bug first time in their life. Despite them having a lot more experience in the code base overall, you may have more insight than them. And finally, I want to add that you don't have to send patches. Do that if you feel that in a particular case it's the right thing to do. Or if you think that upstreaming a patch will benefit you specifically. You don't have an obligation to fix all bugs you see.

[@MoreReneRebe]

One can always find excuses to cause extra work and make the process less efficient, ... One can also simply add "indented by" or "long lines wrapped by"

[@rinat2160]

@@MoreReneRebe Sorry, I fail to recognize efficiency in workarounds like "long lines wrapped by" messages. Why can't you just do it yourself? Isn't that more efficient? Most often than not big enough projects either supply a config file for a formatter tool, or at least have a recommended linter. Once I received a patch on one of my tiny projects. And it looked like shit. I never asked the patch author to fix it of anything, just made follow-up changes. It wasn't only formatting, code too needed fixes, but that's not the point. The point is why. Why do I want my tiny project to become a pit of shitty code? The answer is, the is no reason. I have enough compromised shitty code on my regular work, where politics make me dance around bad changesets rather outright nope'ing them. I don't need the same in my own projects. At least I don't want anything like that coming from outside and me being forced to bear with it. If a person doesn't care enough to even run a formatter, they just can't be trusted with the actual code too. I want to sincerely thank you for sharing your perspective. I always wondered what thought process was behind such low-effort patch handling. Even small patches often require hours of debugging effort to figure out what happens and how to fix it. Saving minutes on running a linter seemed so insignificant compared to all hours spent. Now at least I have an idea of what reasons from the other side could be. They too may though that that part needed to be monetarily compensated. Nothing wrong with wanting to be compensated. Just the idea of wanting compensation for specific part of the work never crossed my mind.

[@MoreReneRebe]

@@rinat2160 I did not expect 100 chars to be too long these days, and each format is an extra communication round trip.

[@rinat2160]

@@MoreReneRebe I guess you've never read my comments.

[@MoreReneRebe]

@@rinat2160 obviously I did.

[@theevilcottonball]

I have never reported a bug to gcc. Maybe when I want to be depressed as well I can submit a bug I found a while back, when you use stdarg.h macros like va_list, va_start in a function decorated with the system V ABI attribute those macros use the windows ABI on windows despite the attribute, leading to an access_violation (the windows equivalent segmentation fault) when you call the function from assembly with the system v calling convention on windows. Anyway, cool work you do for free. I just would not bother with as much crap and just let them not merge useful stuff, but I also code for fun as a hobby not for profit.