How to choose the BEST ARROW for Recurve, Longbow, or Selfbow

One of the most common questions I get is How to choose the best arrow for my recurve, longbow, or selfbow. Selecting the right arrow is important because a mismatched traditional bow and arrow will not perform well, shooting with erratic, fishtailing arrow flight.
One of the most important factors in picking the best arrow for your bow is arrow spine, or how stiff the arrow is. This will influence the flex of the arrow around the bow's riser. This is known as archers paradox.
In this video Clay Hayes demonstrates how arrow spine influences arrow flight when shot from a recurve bow. The weaker spined arrows will fly nock left. As we move up in spine the flight begins to correct itself. As we move to the higher spine range, we begin to get a nock right arrow flight.
The key to using an arrow test kit is to choose the arrow that flies best then make adjustments in tip weight to end up with a perfectly tuned arrow.
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[@joshs5313]

I believe that with your camera angle and your breakdown you have explained something that most archers have difficulty with, very simply and efficiently. Thanks

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks much

[@americanpatriot661]

As usual, always intrigued by your comprehensive detail oriented reviews. There's no one else out there that can do it like Clay Hayes. Cheers and God Bless brother.

[@MrErikSnyder]

This is an awesome video. The POV when shooting really helps see what you mean. Also shows how really good your skills are and how little I know and many decades away I am from coming anywhere close to your level. Really appreciate your videos!

[@deanemery7336]

Clay, again, breaking it down nice and simple. This was another great video. Great work, tight groups and keep up the good work.

[@wyomin50ball]

thank you sir for giving a lot in 10 minutes. from that 10 minutes it turned out into a great 3 months of understanding, further learning & self-correcting.

[@miguelbinha]

Of hundreds of instructional videos on arrow spine tuning, this is the most descriptive and clarifying of them all.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks

[@karls5474]

Great vid, learning a lot. It's amazing how say 20 grains can make a difference especially when you consider that a grain is about 1/7000 of a pound.

[@Meven2001]

How nice to hear someone tell you to test different arrows instead of looking at the manufacturer's chart!

[@stopbeingstupid8208]

Another awesome video Clay! Stay true to you, as you have an amazing gift.

[@bowman321123]

Clay, great video, good explanation as it seems that the more I see/hear on arrow spine seems to make the waters even muddier. The slo-mo was a great addition. I've been shooting my 45lb recurve mostly with aluminum 500spine and 125 points. They seem to give me the best overall with the different bows I use. Accuracy is what the individual makes of it I suppose.

[@Justin-sv3kq]

Thanks clay, good info. The slow mo video was helpful.

[@isaiahglynn3622]

Clay. I appreciate you writing back to me really enjoy watching your videos. Extremely helpful especially since I'm new to archery.

[@clayhayeshunter]

You’re welcome

[@FTLiberty]

Awesome video. Thank you. Great information that was very helpful.

[@aluptown]

I am new to archery,I really like your videos you don’t babble on about other stuff you go straight into explaining to us which I really like . Thank you

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks

[@brianlucas9758]

Another great video. You are teaching me more than I ever could have imagined. Thanks, Clay.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Glad to hear it Dana

[@AFCAWorldBodybuildingArchive]

This is precision. Much respect, Clay!

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks

[@dariuswhite2543]

@@clayhayeshunter i bet if u would of did this test with a shelf less bow u would really notice which ones was the worst arrows

[@LongBowMan89]

Loved the slow down on the arrows. Kickass man.

[@skysurferboy]

Great video Clay Hayes 👍👍👍

[@mooganoid]

Thank you Clay! The video showing the different spines was perfect for me understanding what's going on with my own setup.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Glad it helped!

[@simonkenton5927]

Hey Clay one of the guys from 3 rivers archery told me to look you up. I stepped away from archery for a little while and have decided to give up the compounds and just shoot traditional. I never had any teachers to teach me about arrow selection tuning etc.so I really appreciate your videos they are really well made. I'm in my late 60s and have decided I am only really happy shooting traditional so even though I just bought a new compound I'm walking away from it and spending time with things that heal my heart. When I shoot I just stare at my target pull back to full draw and let go . I just wanted to introduce myself and say tks Simon.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks Simon, welcome aboard.

[@guycordle9038]

Thanks for all the great info. I shoot a compound but the knowledge you share is still pure gold

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks Guy

[@thehuntschool196]

Great vid and summary👍

[@assassinvishal007]

loved the way you explained hence commenting to revert the good work👍 keep it up sir

[@woodsmansfinest3814]

Such a well made and informative video!

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks

[@sn4815]

Very well explain.

[@Antskillet]

Thank you clay your channel is extremely helpful and congrats on alone!

[@Hitman25100]

Great video explains arrow spine well, the slow mo shots were very helpful, thank you.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks Dave

[@robbaker9817]

I’m a new archer and a hunter. I love your content mate

[@ONESHOT768]

Thanks man this was so helpful

[@knolltop314]

I ripped the fletchings off my test kit = Instant bare shaft testing kit. BUT ... heads up ... bare shaft testing presupposes good/consistent shooting form. As many said, your vids are consistently high quality.

[@chrisbgarrett]

Very good info. Helped me a lot. Thanks

[@clayhayeshunter]

Glad to hear it!

[@bartmueller1730]

Great video.

[@jimbeehag2060]

Great vid mate

[@dalephillips7879]

you put out some really great content clay

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks Dale

[@bluebow68]

Great info.I keep coming back to your vids...They're really helpful..Greeting from the U.K.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks

[@Dusty357]

Glass house am the same only been using a bow since February this year and a have learned a lot from clay very knowledgable am also 🇬🇧 Scottish Borders

[@SaneAsylum]

Would love to see you drop tip weight in the black shafted arrows and go up with the yellow ones till both are balanced right then chronograph them and run an energy calculation and see which has the most potential energy.

[@robsarchery9679]

Great good to know

[@davidelizabethkenyon7355]

You explaned all very well, but I have a question on feathers, long short, etc. Is their any effect on the spine/flight in cojunction with point weight, arrow length. Your video mentions everything apart from feather effects. Cheers

[@tucker2074]

Thankyou

[@robertmiller684]

Subbed great video 👍👍

[@travislovell5972]

From my personal experience. And that’s all this is. But. Adjusting Brace height for me has greatly helped me fine tune flight. Couple twist at a time makes a big difference

[@gordji9891]

Cool!

[@Repsol1krr]

Dude you should sell the arrow “test kit” on your store. I’d buy it. Arrows are expensive. It’s hard to justify buying 12 different spined dozens. But a dozen different spines?? Sold.

[@poddymouththepodcast9067]

I'm just getting into the trad life after shooting a compound for a few years. Boy is it a totally different animal haha. Super helpful, thanks!

[@clayhayeshunter]

You’re welcome

[@poddymouththepodcast9067]

@@clayhayeshunter Regarding the arrow tailing left and right due to weak or too strong of spine..is it opposite for a lefty?

[@clayhayeshunter]

Yes

[@esaflaka9155]

A spine chart that actually makes sense to me lol. Every chary either didn’t go as low as 25 ibs or their was one number missing to me.

[@TruthWizardTemplar7]

I had some fibreglass arrows before first time using a bow too shot a thin wood plank with can on it. I would miss a lot especially since it was my first time and it would hit the wall behind it or the plank itself so then after a few shots my hands started to burn I thought it was a blister but I got 2 more shots in before I noticed that these fibreglass arrows had fibreglass leaking out of some splits in the shaft I had hundreds of little glass splinters between my fingers it didn’t hurt it more so itched in a painful way I ended up waxing my hand and wrist and that’s why I never use fibreglass arrows

[@robsarchery9679]

nice

[@MultiOhioman]

They could hang a big white square of paper in front of their target to determine how the arrow is flying. Also separate issue I discovered making my arrows erratic up and down. I had button style sound dampeners on my recurve limbs and could not tune to save my life. I may have had then unequal distance on the limbs, not sure.( I thought they were) But I removed them after considerable time and trouble. Solved the problem. So careful with adding things to limbs, plus it adds mass as well so.🤷🏼‍♂️

[@ahmadzuhairi]

May I know what spine+points you end up with and what bow poundage?

[@eddiebhoy6754]

Started shooting with recurve and have become handy with it. 45lb draw but was wondering how to increase draw power to atleast 60lb, best way to do it

[@michaelkenny9027]

Great video and explanation, but what if I don't have access to slow motion video? Is there another way to tell if my arrows are tailing left or right? Thank you

[@ryukage6695]

First off, great video, always helpful. The question I have is the spine number. Most Arrow spines I see are numbering from 350, 400, 500, etc... what does it mean when having numbers like 45, 50, 60, 70, etc. Not sure which number to go off of to determine the spine that's right for my recurve

[@clayhayeshunter]

The first set of numbers you mentioned are for carbon arrows. The second is for wood.

[@ryukage6695]

@@clayhayeshunter oh okay, awesome thanks for replying... Love your videos

[@channelname8623]

i had this same question. was so confused.

[@northernvabowhunter7194]

Hey Clay, found your channel and subscribed right away. I love your content. Hey can I ask you, I'm new to traditional equipment but not archery as I mainly use a compound bow. Shooting an LH 45lb recurve. I'm just unable to determine the best arrow wight tip, shooting a 28" draw with 400 gr arrow Gold tip 340 with 100gr tip. Do you think that's too light? What do you recommend? Should I be shooting a heavier tip? Noticed my arrow hit consistently right? Also what do you recommend? 4 or 5" feathers? Thank you

[@clayhayeshunter]

Give 3 Rivers a call. I’d say that spine is too stiff and not enough weight up front.

[@stevebumpus8943]

Clay, I've been enjoying your videos on tuning arrows. I have a 1978 Bear Grizzley 35# that I love to shoot. I've bare shaft tuned some carbon 600 spine 30" to fly straight with a 200gr point. It's just too heavy! Do you think increasing to 32" length will let me lower the point weight down very much?

[@clayhayeshunter]

Give it a try.

[@bloodstainedoutdoors8552]

Hey clay, Jacob McReynolds here.... Still waiting on some more arrows to arrive. Something else I ran across during tuning, was the different string types having impact on tuning even with the same BH and nocking point. I had gotten a bow that had d97 string on it and I had tuned arrows to it. Got a new D50 string for it and it totally changed the game. Those arrows I had tuned with the D97 flew too stiff with the D50. I’ll be doing my tuning again. I’ll post some more videos on your Facebook page of bare-shafting periodically as I tune them.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Looking forward to seeing it!

[@josephkostecki8502]

Check brace height

[@bloodstainedoutdoors8552]

Joseph Kostecki same BH

[@josephkostecki8502]

I mean might want to try adjusting for better flight with different strinf

[@bloodstainedoutdoors8552]

B50****

[@xGoobeyBearx]

Clay, new to recurve hunting. My recurve is 50-60lb draw. Looking to kill whitetails at no more than 20 yards. Ideas on arrow size, weight, and broadhead weight?

[@paulalan3351]

You need a T.V. Show..Great thanks

[@shanek6582]

If you made your bow centershot would the spine matter much?

[@DUKEisALIVE]

Your videos really inspire me ! I never hunted as here in Germany its more than 2000 bucks for the license, we don't have free land so you have to know or pay a landlord and bow hunting isn't even allowed. I am spending 6 months in B.C. this summer though. Would you reckon it possible for me to learn how to hunt small game with a bow in that time frame (I have a little bit of experience with bow shooting but its been a long time ago). I would love to build my own bow but classes are out of my price range :/ Greetings from Germany !

[@clayhayeshunter]

Absolutely, if you’re there during the small game season and there is game around.

[@shanek6582]

TwoFaced Films get with Jorge from the slingshot channel, I was a natural when I got my first recurve at 10 because I had been shooting a slingshot for a couple years.

[@thevanishingman875]

So I've got a 54 Promax from PSE I found that my boo shoots feathered felched Arrow's then your typical plastic felched I tried to stay with the same consistency of the spine the grain and they're just all over the place

[@juniopitbull5371]

Show👏👏✌

[@jeffreyburton6419]

Where do you get these heavier field points? All I can find when I search are 125 and lighter.

[@clayhayeshunter]

3Rivers has everything you need.

[@Alfer2601]

If you are a left handed shooter and you fire the arrows on the right sight of the bow and you have tail left arrow flight, that means the arrow is overspined?

[@larryreese6146]

Clay, would a heavier head, theoretically, help with penetration at closer ranges, say thirty yards in?

[@clayhayeshunter]

There is evidence suggesting that FOC over 18% can improve penetration. Heavy heads help achieve high FOC.

[@robertham3746]

We are new (about 6 months into archery) and have 12 carbon arrows with 600 spine. I see wood arrows have different numbers. Do you know if the carbon arrows exceed 600 spine? The carbon test kits only went to 600. I not opposed to doing the wood arrows instead, this is just what we started out with. Would the 60# wood arrow be equal to the 600 spine carbon? I tried the 400 and 500 spine arrows at one of the shops and the 600 flew best - all at full length, I don't know if this length is right (probably not for my wife) - but one variable at a time. Should spine be figured out before length?

[@clayhayeshunter]

A 600 spine is pretty weak. For carbon, stiffness and spine number are inverse.

[@bogenstark_kai8461]

Question: you said that I could change my arrowflight through changing tip weight. Great. But I thought to get an underspinded arrow fitting to my bow I should UP the tip weight, to get the inertia up, but you said I should drop it, to get better arrowflight. What's right? I'm a bit confused.

[@dan776]

Over spined (too stiff) add weight to end of arrow. Underpinned (too weak) reduce weight at end of arrow. Arrow length also can affect how the arrows acts. Longer = more flex, Shorter = less flex

[@knifesharpeningnorway]

Have you tried the skylon frontier arrows? Very happy with mine gpod price and quality

[@clayhayeshunter]

Nope I haven’t

[@knifesharpeningnorway]

@@clayhayeshunter ok thanks for replying mate

[@joecoffee968]

Would you use the same arrows for target practice that you use for hunting in and just change out the points?

[@clayhayeshunter]

Yep

[@TheOnlyCAVEMAN]

hey buddy.how much would you charge me to build me a bow and set it up with arrows

[@Ondricak]

Why they are fletched? I would expect having bare shaft tunning kit. Great tutorial btw.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Watch my other tuning video. I always tune with fletched shafts first, then bare shaft.

[@selwynnewson851]

Hi Clay I just got a 68" long bow how long to make a string for it thankyou

[@clayhayeshunter]

Check out some of my more recent string making videos.

[@henrysscrollsawworks6367]

like your vids .have a q? can you build a bow from birch plywood 1/4 inch by laminating it

[@clayhayeshunter]

You can make a bow from just about any wood. But it may not perform very well.

[@henrysscrollsawworks6367]

@@clayhayeshunter what if put a little thicker wood in with it

[@lp7064]

Will the tail of the arrow go the opposite way for a left handed shooter? Meaning would tail right mean under spined?

[@clayhayeshunter]

Yes

[@jeff9242]

Clay, i am shooting a 40 pound recurve bow. I just went to a 700 spine with 80 gr tips skinny arrows. total arrow weight is 288 gr. i am being told i should not shoot no lighter than 312 gr arrow by bow maker. These shoot fast and flat hate to go heavier. They paper shoot very good. Target use . My draw length is 27" but i left these full length and would like to cut shorter. Question is can you damage a bow shooting too light of an arrow?

[@clayhayeshunter]

Yes you can. Shooting an arrow too light is almost like dry firing it. You can split the nocks or crack a limb.

[@rustbeltmachine]

I shoot a recurve at 48#/31" draw. I've been shooting different test arrows just trying to get good flight. No matter how high or how low I move the nock point on the string, I ALWAYS get nock-high. Any ideas? I get this with carbons, doug-fir and aluminums. Thanks.

[@clayhayeshunter]

It may be how the bow is tillered or your string hand placement. If you’re shooting 3 under, try split. If you’re shooting with a crawl, try 3 under.

[@rustbeltmachine]

I’ll do that today. Thanks for all the videos. They’ve been a big help

[@stefanwithanf7955]

Newbie archery question, I have a recurve bow and some second hand arrows with rubber fletching. Can you shoot a recurve with rubber or is it important to get faux feather fletching. Thank you in advance 🙏🏼

[@clayhayeshunter]

Vanes(plastic Fletching) can be shot if your shooting with an elevated rest like in a target bow. But if you’re shooting off the shelf, feathers are best.

[@stefanwithanf7955]

@@clayhayeshunter Thank you for the response!

[@zachmckibbon1782]

If I have a 50 pound draw bow what should the spine be for it something like a 55/60 ??

[@clayhayeshunter]

Go to 3riversarchery.com and use their spine calculator for starters. There are many more factors to consider beyond bow weight. My tuning video might also be helpful.

[@lehampton1]

Ad played in full. Liked and commenting for $. 😊

[@Erikkmachowek.]

Did you cut you’re arrows to length on the basis of your draw length?

[@clayhayeshunter]

Yes, I wanted the broadhead to touch my knuckle as I expanded.

[@ReturnerMusic]

Wish I had a camera to slowdown my shots like that. My iPhone doesn’t get the result I want. What camera you using man???

[@clayhayeshunter]

iPhone 6

[@ReturnerMusic]

🤔maybe it’s the lighting but my iPhone 8 slowdown ain’t cutting it. Thanks for the reply.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Good lighting is a must for any slomo shots!

[@MsBess100]

I draw only 24” and my recurve is 40@28. I don’t use the tip of the arrow per say, I mostly look and shoot and do well. Could I use this same method to find a good arrow for me and my recurve? And is longer ok considering how short my draw is?

[@clayhayeshunter]

Sure, this works with any draw length.

[@draven3838]

I know this is off topic, I recently had a customer who brought back one of my bows made of hickory because it cracked and they blamed me . I always seal my bows when they are around 6-8% moisture and I use true oil like I have for 35 years. I think it's their fault for storing it in a hot place? What's your thoughts on this? Please advise me on this I'd greatly appreciate your input.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Hey Gary, this is one of the reasons I don’t advertise bows for sale. You never know how someone will treat them.

[@sirgags2738]

What do the numbers mean

[@hickabillyoutdoors7254]

Question cause I can’t find an answer. Wood vs carbon to use for everything hunting, target shooting and shtf situations

[@assassinmanx6128]

Nobody ever really answers that. I just go with my instinct. I personally like wood with my wooden bow to give it that classic feel I guess.

[@gavincunningham6422]

Question, is a 32inch arrow good for someone who is 6ft?

[@clayhayeshunter]

Depends on your draw length.

[@danfloyd9085]

I order a test kit and they with 5 inch fletches i shoot 4 inch . Should I change to 4 inch

[@clayhayeshunter]

That should be good enough to get you in the ball park. Fine tune your arrow with 4”

[@reds6836]

I don’t change tip weight because I don’t want to buy different broad heads. Gets too expensive

[@Tucher97]

Lets say I have a recurve 30lb, what arrow length is ideal?

[@clayhayeshunter]

Depends on your draw length

[@tytorubio3271]

Hi, can someone help me. I still have difficulty chosing arrows despite all the videos. I'm thinking of buying a 60" 35# bow and my draw length should be 27". Its so difficult to understand for a beginner

[@colbyd.5044]

Same. Have a 62” 35# on the way with a 28” DL. From what I’ve gathered the arrow should be an inch longer then your draw length

[@colbyd.5044]

If we have a 35# someone told me we need a 500 grain arrow with a 100 point tip

[@tytorubio3271]

@@colbyd.5044 thanks! I'm glad i didnt buy the 35#. I have a 28# and its hard enough to begin with.. i tore a muscle i think :)

[@patrickwelch3274]

Ok I need your help. I’ve hunted all my life. Shotguns, rifles . I shot a bow as a kid up to about 20. I am now 70. I want to go back. Buy an authentic recurve . Here’s the catch . I littterally am starting over. I lost my left eye in an accident ( left handed) I now have to do everything right handed. Initially I plan on just target but I do have access to a ranch with lot of deer and turkey. I don’t like compound bows. Can you suggest a bow , arrows I am 6ft 1 200.? Not sure where to start.

[@justincrippen4415]

Patrick if now one responds here, I would contact the guys and gals at Three Rivers Archery, I have always had very good luck with them. www.3riversarchery.com/

[@judithdillashaw479]

pumped up kicks

[@Sertao2013]

What is the best arrow for a 25 pound bow ?

[@flyingdutchman8371]

Even a compound bow with a draw weight of 25 lbs. is basically a toy. I would barely even hunt small game with that draw weight.

[@Sertao2013]

@@flyingdutchman8371 You didn't answer the question at all. If you don't know the answer then just don't comment at all . The bow is for 3d traditional shoots . The max stakes are around 20 yards . The arrows I use go into the targets far enough you have to get a good grip on it . If you don't think a 25 lb longbow can do some damage why don't you stand 20 yards away and let me see how far up your ass it will go ?

[@flyingdutchman8371]

@@Sertao2013 Well if you're going to be that negative and hate on me for trying to help then go rain on someone else's parade. Real charming personality you got there.

[@Sertao2013]

@@flyingdutchman8371 And just how is telling someone there 25 lb bow . is basically a toy and would barely even hunt small game with that draw weight helping with my question ? Again if you think a 135 fps arrow that producing 25 fpe which is enough to kill a deer is a toy and no good for even small game then lets see what this toy can do to your ass at 20 yards away . I think you will find out real fast a 25 pound bow is not a toy and should never be treated as one but I would be glad to prove it to you .

[@flyingdutchman8371]

@@Sertao2013 Well, first off, there's a reason many states have requirements of at least 40 lbs. draw weight for bow hunting deer, and secondly, using my ass as part of your rage filled comment is un-original and irrelevant. And, I looked up an fpe chart and 25 fpe is barely in the small game category, adequate for possum, squirrel, and rabbit.

[@Wolf-we4gh]

Whats the name of that bow and where i can find it ?

[@clayhayeshunter]

It’s a selfbow. I made it.

[@Wolf-we4gh]

Clay Hayes do you sell them?

[@clayhayeshunter]

No but I give workshops on building them.

[@libertycowboy2495]

And...what do you mean by spine?

[@clayhayeshunter]

Spine refers to the stiffness of the arrow.

[@ryant169]

Why cut arrows all the same length.. That's how to setup a compound bow arrow. Instead, bareshaft tune the arrow by shooting full length and chop down until it stiffens to perfection. Always start with the tip weight that's appropriate to what you're going to shoot with or hunt with. It wouldn't make sense to put 160 or 190 grain on an arrow shooting a 55 or 60lb bow because that'll drop like a rock after it flies 10 yards from your bow. 100-125 grain flies straight with those weights and packs plenty of foc to effectively harvest an animal.

[@laurentdubot2402]

Had the bow set up at a pro shop. It performed just fine kzbin.infoUgkxQEKUoxLWwayEDZR0NKB-5limn4MBU-2L . And I would say this is a good starting now that I could pass down to my son when he is older.But the package was missing the release and a nock was missing from one arrow.Dealing with customer support was terrible. They suggested I buy a new release rather than correct their own quality control issue because it’s to expensive for the. to ship it out from China.Update: manufacturer got back to me and resolved the issue. I retract the above statement.

[@rikertvonfulton16]

How do you do this without costing a fortune in arrows and tips?

[@clayhayeshunter]

Get a tip test kit from 3Rivers. You get several different weight tips for a few bucks.

[@SaneAsylum]

It actually saves money when you are using it for many different bows. Because he is he can use this same kit over and over and figure out each bow and hunter and situation independently without additional cost.

[@gabdion2767]

clay, needs to go on, joe rogan

[@clayhayeshunter]

Bug him about it.

[@LightofRyga]

When he says the spine is 45, does he mean 450? If so, why on earth is he dropping the 0 and confusing the hell out of an already super confusing situation?

[@clayhayeshunter]

No, 450 is referring to carbon shafts. Carbon and wood are measured differently.

[@LightofRyga]

@@clayhayeshunter Oh okay. Thanks for clarifying

[@bonesstones6584]

Another excellent video sir! I too have a "psycho trigger" - liberal democRATs!

[@clayhayeshunter]

Haha