How To Convince People To Volunteer: Joining Up In WWI

[@TheGreatJohnPlays]

As Blackadder notes, we were a very successful army in the run-up to WW1 because the number 1 criteria we considered when choosing our opponents was "Does the enemy have guns?" if the answer was yes, we generally looked elsewhere.

[@EternusNex]

And that the war started because Archie Duke shot an ostrich because he was hungry

[@cholten99]

I think the 20,000 men that died in the Crimean War would say otherwise.

[@HairyStuntWaffle]

And the Boers.

[@vathek5958]

@@cholten99 Crimea was also 60 years before WW1

[@samparkerSAM]

FLASH HEART!!! 😂 I have to Make it back to New Orleans or some Voodoo ladies will be cursing chickens like Popeyes Dinners...

[@possiblyadog]

I love the idea of J. Draper making 'slightly' incorrect Tiktoks in order to crowdsource historical research

[@davidioanhedges]

Don't ask for help on the Internet, say something wrong and wait for people to correct you ...

[@BlackHearthguard]

@@davidioanhedges It's the fastest way to get "feedback".

[@ferretyluv]

Cunningham’s law in action.

[@davidioanhedges]

​@nothanks9503 It has been said many times the best way of getting the right answer is not asking for it, but stating the wrong answer and wait for people to correct you, in detail ...

[@chrisrubin6445]

also whenever people comment corrections, the algorithm sees that as engagement and LOVES it!

[@molybdomancer195]

As a youngster, I noticed at our church how many attendee were little old ladies who had never married “Miss Smith” “Miss Jones” etc. it was many years later that I realised that these were the women who would have married the young men who died at the Front.

[@katamariroller2837]

The whole "men are expendable in war, women must be protected" argument really doesn´t make much sense for as long as monogamy is a thing. Yes, one man can impregnate as many women as he pleases while the opposite is more difficult, and so, theoretically, from a purely biological point of view, the woman is more valuable... but I can´t imagine Men´s Rights Activists forgetting that they are supposed to be Christian so harems and polyamory are not cool according to their own rules. I would also argue they should remember they may not be one of the lucky blokes to stay home and shag as many ladies as they please, but the sort of person that joins that kind of ideology never thinks they might be unlucky...

[@markaxworthy2508]

There was a very moving piece by Michael Morpurgo on Radio 4 a few years ago about these unmarried "Aunties". I suddenly realized, fifty years too late, that the very kind spinster sisters who lived opposite my grandparents and who always sent me little birthday presents were probably alone in the world for this reason. Going to say thank you to them was always a chore for me as a child. I look upon their little kindnesses so differently now. I am crying as I write this at 67. War leaves a long, long shadow.......

[@motherfucker42069]

@@katamariroller2837 Even better, this argument doesn't make sense because no war in history has switched a monogamous society to a polygamous one. No harems popped up, ever, in all the thousands of years. Those single women just died alone.

[@obsidianjane4413]

​@@katamariroller2837 You are forgetting/ignorant of that remarriage, family, and charity are also Christian norms.

[@ninjaked1265]

@@katamariroller2837 humans are naturally monogamous, very rarely have there been societies that are poly

[@activegraves71]

“What did you do during the war?” - Personally, I was medically disqualified on an account of being negative 78 years old at the time…

[@amadeosendiulo2137]

Heh

[@rhysalexander182]

That “if you’re going to correct my facts please show your sources” was brilliant!

[@madtabby66]

Except you can’t share links on KZbin. I’m not saying she’s wrong, just pointing out the problem.

[@second0banana]

@@madtabby66 I mean, you can post a source without directly linking the website, or post the address for someone to cut and paste. It's not a huge barrier if someone really wants to prove their point on the Internet.

[@pendlera2959]

@@madtabby66 Schools teach how to site sources without using links.

[@drewpeacock9087]

​@@pendlera2959I was never tought how to cite at all until university, ease on the snark

[@desiree5416]

“You’re welcome to have a different opinion, just make sure it’s an educated opinion.”

[@gallaxyk9095]

I'm part of my city's volunteer work society and honestly, I can't even get people to read to the elderly. Convincing people to sign up for a WW is (while ethically complicated) such a massive flex

[@SimonPeel]

Clearly your city's volunteer work society needs a better propaganda arm.

[@gallaxyk9095]

@@SimonPeel We absolutely do We could tell parents to pressure their teens into volunteer work maybe... All for the glory of the city and homeland obviously (joking, obviously)

[@matthewcreelman1347]

Nationalism is a hell of a drug.

[@jonathanbowers8964]

What is even more disturbing is how Wilson created anti-german hysteria in just a single year that was so strong that people were stoning dachshunds and burning works of Beethoven in Cincinnati, a city that had a plurality of the population being of German descent. The fact that such a hate movement could be so quickly successful against one of the largest ethnic groups in the US (to the point that many German Americans even living in communities where they were very much the majority were forced to change their names) is horrifying. One year (plus arguably 3 to 5 years of British propaganda in the newspapers) is all it took to villainize nearly a quarter of the US population.

[@DrAnarchy69]

By “ethically complicated” I believe you mean “completely immoral”.

[@Rowan_d]

My Great Granddad literally was given a white feather after he was sent home after being injured. He was seeing off a ship of soldiers when a woman gave him a feather. According to the family story, he literally had a cane at the time. This is in Sydney.

[@matthewdietzen6708]

She deserved at least a punch in the face for that insolence. Let her go sign up and "serve."

[@adaeptzulander2928]

Women are emotional fanatics.

[@peggedyourdad9560]

Should've hit her with it imo.

[@zaco-km3su]

Women aren't that smart.

[@bigships]

@@peggedyourdad9560 yes he should have

[@jocelynknorr1937]

That Siegfried Sassoon sponsorship segment made me die laughing. I love how you somehow manage to turn WWI-famously not a very good time-into something funny while still being respectful.

[@Vinemaple]

I just love the way Ms. Draper mocks sponsorship ad reads!

[@Ciara_Turner]

The best bit about it was that it got filtered out by my sponsorblock lol! Had to go back and deliberately whitelist the channel because I don't want to miss any more "fake sponsor reads" in future

[@SomethingWellesian]

A few years ago, my wife and I were given a tour around some of the war sites in Belgium by a friend’s dad, who’d spent his career working in munitions disposal-digging up unexploded bombs and the like across the country. We saw the lists of names, and we heard first-hand what it was like to inhale mustard gas, but for whatever reason the thing that stuck with me most was a sentence in a letter in a museum, written by a working class mum when her son came home. For me it just seemed to capture so much of the tragedy and trauma and pain in the most direct way: “He is not the same Albert.” I’m not sure if this has anything to do with the video, since I’ve just started watching, but I hope you don’t mind my sharing.

[@Vinemaple]

"He is not the same Albert." That sentence encapsulates everything, fictional and non-fictional, that I've ever read or heard about inter-war Britain.

[@calebbell5018]

My Great Uncle Albert was killed in WW1, his brother Robert shot in the elbow and invalidated out, his other brother Basil was gassed and lived with the effects the rest of his life.

[@MustAvoidScurvy]

Ouch! This hurt my heart so much 😢

[@davidjuson5608]

That was worth sharing. Thank you.

[@latch9781]

"We were home. How do you pick up the threads of an old life? How do you go on... when in your heart you begin to understand... there is no going back? There are some things that time cannot mend... some hurts that go too deep... that have taken hold."

[@josephkarl2061]

IMO one of the reasons these recruitment drives worked so well is that many people of the times were factory workers or labourers or manservants. They hated their jobs and couldn't see any way out of it until this opportunity arose. All it took was a bit of sweet talking, as demonstrated, and voila! You had thousands of new recruits.

[@ramblingrenegade6346]

I'd argue we still see this to a degree even now. A lot of lads who volunteered to fight in Ukraine went because the reality of their day-to-day just didn't hold up to the idealised version of serving in Ukraine they had in their heads

[@hanknichols6865]

My father served in the US Navy in WWII. He told stories of school friends and shipmates who joined to get out their social situations.

[@hannahk1306]

You can see this sort of thing even in modern army recruiting along the lines of "Hated school and don't know what to do with your life? Join the army/navy/air force!".

[@Tsuruchi_420]

One of the many reasons why workers are kept poor in the first place, it looks really nice on paper when someone says that the countries army is 100% volunteer, but they still need to garante people are going to enlist...

[@Bloodlyshiva]

@@ramblingrenegade6346 "Join the army, they said. See the world, they said." All jokes and one-liners tend to have some truth to them, and that one's been going on a long, long time.

[@ExUSSailor]

As an American, I was caught up in the post-9/11 nationalist hysteria. I ended up serving as a Corpsman with a Marine rifle company in a war to secure corporate profits in Iraq. The recruiter's best friend is a naive sense of patriotism. It is NEVER that simple, or, clear cut...

[@adoxartist1258]

💛

[@Zipshysa]

My entire town bought into the jingoist crap that we Americans had to "go over there and kick some ass!" To question WHY was almost universally shouted-down as "anti-American" and I didn't even think anything of it until my formative years were over and vets started coming back and, unprompted, would start confessing to me in [a college] class that they committed war crimes in Iraq. No one could even say how bin Laden was linked to Saddam Hussein. As General Butler said, "war is a racket." Cheney and his fellow ghouls made sooo much money at the expense of 40,000 dead Iraqi kids and a devastated country. They sleep like babies and tears will be shed when they finally start their trip to Hell.

[@stephenlawrence6259]

My grandfather before the war was already in the partime Territory army. He joined it because " you got paid, free meals and clothes" life in the back streets of London was either hard labour or...... When the war came off he went, next stop Gallipoli. By some miracle he survived without any physical harm. For the rest of the war he was in Palestine. As a child I remember numerous exciting and humorous stories he would tell. However there were also times he would cry. He witnessed some of the most appalling atrocities humanity can inflict on its fellows. In an age before any help was ever given to returning soldiers, I'm sure he never got over it. However in the second world war he became an air raid warden in charge of a company formed from conscientious objectors, serving in London.

[@gypsydildopunks7083]

I almost signed up around then. I could tell the recruiter was painting a picture that was obvious bullshite. He called me 5-6 times yelling at me like a movie drill instructor. Boy, it made him very angry when I laughed and hung up phone.

[@macfilms9904]

PNAC was a force for evil. I've talked to Richard Clarke (Counterterrorism Czar in Bush 2) and he ran into Dick Cheney on 9/11 in the tunnels under the White House- Cheney said "This was Saddam, find the evidence" - Clarke (who had written the ignored Presidential Briefing memo titled "Al Queda seeking to attack Continental US") in July, replied that all intel pointed to Bin Laden and Cheney started drilling his finger into Clarke's chest yelling "IT'S IRAQ, FIND THE PROOF!" We needed to destroy Al Queda & the Taliban needed to get their a$$es kicked for allowing Al Queda to train in Afghanistan - but we should have done it & been out in a few months & Iraq never should have happened.

[@ianyoung1106]

My grandfather was a farmer and timber worker. He was married and had children when his brothers asked him to look after their farms and joined up. When they returned, he showed them the white feathers he had received. All anonymously and in vast numbers. The three of them left town and never went back. It was a source of bitterness for his entire life.

[@matthewdietzen6708]

Somebody wanted that land. That was the ulterior motive for interning the Nisei, and sending the sons on suicide missions in the European theater. It was a form of domestic psychological warfare.

[@Vinemaple]

Anonymous, eh? Well, in early 20th-century Britain, they probably weren't named Karen, but...

[@SombreroPharoah]

What we're the feathers for? I'm very tired so prob missed the obvious

[@whoareyou1034]

​@@SombreroPharoahthey were a way to call a man a coward. Many of the people who gave these feathers were suffereggettes. It continued even after it was not needed

[@scarlettptheoriginal]

​@whoareyou1034 you need to watch the video to the end. The "suffragettes gave white feathers" idea has been thoroughly debunked.

[@stevekazenwadel5423]

Australia had two conscription referendums (1916 &1917), both of which failed. As a result the Australian Imperial Force was an entirely volunteer force in WW1.

[@thehangmansdaughter1120]

Kiwis also. I can't see such a referendum succeeding here, then or now.

[@anthonyquinn5058]

There was no referendum in Ireland about conscription..they just thought it was a good idea..thankfully smarter heads prevailed and the notion was abandoned

[@ssgtmole8610]

@@thehangmansdaughter1120 Be happy you aren't saddled with as many ultra-greedy as we have in america where they just paid off enough congresscritters to get it passed. The ultra-greedy also seem to be willing to tank the economy in order to get more people to "volunteer" for the military because workers can't find a job.

[@renaissancewoman3770]

I didn't know that at all and I'm Australian lol. So all the people that were lost chose to go from here.

[@asaturner4097]

That's pretty funny "will you give us permission to force you to go to war" 😂

[@jarancrane2462]

I am always amazed by your videos. The content, the writing, the speaking, the acting, it seems like each video is it's own thing, and is unique

[@dee_dee_place]

Agreed. I find your videos fascinating. I don't know much about English history & I love the way you present your material. Knowing that you put the time & effort into researching your material pleases me. in today's world, people just open their mouths & spew forth whatever comes to mind. 3/4 of it is utter nonsense yet people will believe whatever is said without question. Jenny- Thank you so much for your accurate, informative videos. I've learned so much about England as well as the other places that you have mentioned.

[@dcseain]

Agreed!

[@andrejuha164]

prove that english are slavic kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4iVpKhuiKypp5I

[@quinnsine1650]

The style reminds me of Contrapoints but less Avant Garde

[@egirl150]

The Discworld version of this. Nobby Nobbs is delaying joining up so he can collect enough feathers for a mattress.

[@danielbrush1294]

@@egirl150 He would get them from humans, trolls, dwarves, anybody that wanted Nobby Nobbs out of the city, even for a while.

[@charliekezza]

My grandfather's cousin (ww2 Australia) was given a white feather. He was the baby of the family and by the time he was old enough to go all his brothers had already signed up and by this time they were loosing so many they were stopping one boy signing up. He was pretty upset that he couldn't go and that he got a white feather. He ended up being the state police commissioner

[@Pedro_Alcantara]

Thats brave and inspiring? He couldn't useless money sink wars that would just have him killed uselessly, now he protects and serves the people like the hero he is meant and born to be

[@charliekezza]

@@Pedro_Alcantara you pretend the world had modern thoughts about war at the time also during the 2ww a lot of family members, who still lived in Prussia, Germany or Poland, ended up in gas chambers or worked to death. So every boy and girl in the family who could fight did.

[@downwardspiral3750]

love your videos! the best history channel on YT. I just wanted to point out that Sarajevo is in Bosnia. At the time, Bosnia was under the governance of Austro-Hungary, and indeed AH declared war on Serbia because they believed Serbia's involved (which it probably was). Anyway, as a Bosnian, just wanted to mention it.

[@JDraper]

Oh my god, I can't believe I got that wrong. Of course Sarajevo is in Bosnia! That is a complete brain-fart on my part. Thank you!

[@emdeejay5515]

I just want to agree: best history channel on KZbin. Or anywhere I can think of. Thank you, thank you! I love all your wonderful details, and enthusiasm! ❤❤❤

[@andrejuha164]

prove that english are slavic kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4iVpKhuiKypp5I

[@robertkalinic335]

I believe there is certain bald prophet guy that keeps building temple Prime in Sarajevo all the time.

[@KuK1910]

Technically, Austria Hungary declared war on the Kingdom of Serbia, because it repeatedly refused to investigate the Serbian origins of the Assassinations of Archduke Franz Ferdinand and Duchess Sophie. Under international law, to refuse to investigate a crime a.) is a flagrant violation of International Law, in and of itself, and b.) is to willfully accept responsibility as the originator of the crime for which you refuse to investigate. Serbia committed an international delinquency and left said delinquency unrepaired. That is legal justification for war, something that every allied nation, in 1914, lacked.

[@Mightilyoats]

“Give her the men whom she wants”. That’s like a straight up call for human sacrifice to a deity. And it was, it was sacrificing millions of lives to keep the dying dream of the God of the British empire alive.

[@animyosfox8617]

10:46 Very interesting that the Brits thought that similar of WW1. In history class, we were taught that the Germans wrote slogans like "To Paris" on the trains transporting them to the front. Also, the "It'll be over by Christmas" or "We'll be home by Christmas" was exactly the same.

[@oliverlane9716]

My great grandfather volunteered in the first month, but 2 weeks later was discharged with the comment on his papers of "Totally unfit for service" with no further explanation. He spent the remainder of the war as a civilian and its been a family mystery what happened ever since. During WW2 he was in the Merchant Navy and died in 1940 when his ship was sunk by a U-boat

[@GugsGunny]

I've read in passing about the white feather but it wasn't until Downton Abbey that I learned there were hostility towards it. Your video just provided a lot more context to that scene, thanks.

[@BarbaraRay-m4r]

Well shes literally wrong soo....

[@vekaroni135]

​@@BarbaraRay-m4r In what way?

[@obwill]

My gran (late 80s) has recently been in a feud with her neighbour (man, late 80s, recently widowed, dementia). She saw a white feather on the ground and posted it through his letterbox. She thought it was hilarious but we were just so horrified.

[@adamlevine6700]

I think thats pretty hiilarious in 2023. Good move, gran!

[@pigeon_the_brit565]

thats awful

[@stuart940]

why is that a good move@@adamlevine6700

[@edisonlima4647]

As someone from a family with about a dozen 80+ y.o. relatives, I must say that elderly viciousness can sometimes reach levels of pettiness that would make reality TV editors blush.

[@topbrew42]

@@edisonlima4647 saga louts, so called in a popular retirement East Devon seaside town due to the behaviour of some

[@pjlusk7774]

God, the Pals Battalions were such a bad idea. What’s wild is that it more or less happened in the Navy too. Part of the reason that September 1914 sinkings of the HMS Cressy, Aboukir and Hogue by U-boat was so bad is that they were staffed by raw reservists recruited from the seaside towns they were stationed at. When one ship sank, the other rushed in to save their buddies, heedless to the danger the U-boat still posed.

[@thodan467]

they were not, the cohäsion of this units must be very high. men fight better, harder more dedicated with their friends and neighbours at their side

[@pjlusk7774]

Sure, right up until you take out an entire town’s generation of young men in a single artillery strike. That’s pretty bad for morale back home!

[@thodan467]

@@pjlusk7774 It is a time and beyond proven military concept, that this may cost a town an entire generation of young men is the price for that.

[@pjlusk7774]

@@thodan467 Evidently, the British government eventually didn't agree! They stopped constructing units this way after conscription started in 1916, and didn't try it again in WW2. In a world war like this, the Home Front isn't just a metaphor. It really is a sort of front that has morale that needs to be managed, particularly in a democracy where people might vote to stop stop the war if they think the government is being careless with their boys' lives.

[@mightytoast2693]

@@thodan467 that was indeed the thought at the time. However these benefits were pretty marginal in trench warfare.

[@philippschmitt4142]

A very interesting perspective! I had not heard of the white feathers. Something i was also taught in germany, is that by no means the entire population was so enthusiastic. The greatest supporters of the war were mostly university students, academics and impressionable people that had just finished school, while those with families or from the lower class were less enthusiastic. We were given the perspective of a student, who didnt have much to show for in his live, and wanted to earn his spurs, compared to a farmer, who had to worry about who would bring in the harvest this year, if he wasnt there.

[@madtabby66]

Yeah, it’s amazing the things you learn when you really study history. Strangest thing I’ve found is that most of the weird history I find is just casually mentioned in a book on some other topic and only mentioned because it has a fleeting reference to the topic at hand. You’ll read about what a great hero someone is, then you read about the last day of the war and read about how he was actually a monster.

[@KathrinFranke-z4c]

And the certainly didn't tell us about the Christmas Truce, the football games in No-Man's-Land and carol singing in the trenches either.

[@BartitsuSociety]

I did the same research re. the Pankhursts and the White Feather campaign about eight years ago, and came to the same conclusion; apart from the reference by Sylvia Pankhurst (who, by that time, had plenty of reasons to try to cast shade on Emmeline and Christabel), there's basically nothing connecting the WSPU to the Order of the White Feather. Sylvia's reference was discovered by a "Men's Rights Activist" who wrote an article exaggerating it into the claim that "the suffragettes shamed men into dying in the war" and that has since become common, but incorrect knowledge online.

[@renaissancewoman3770]

That's so fascinating that's it's slipped into the public consciousness like that.

[@liesdamnlies3372]

Do you recall who did that, exactly? All I ever recall hearing is not the false attribution to suffragettes but as evidence men were shamed into signing-up by some ridiculously privileged women, which is…well, true. On the contrary I heard most make the argument that the reality that many men supported women being granted the right to vote as proof that the myth that “women have always been oppressed by/slaves to men” is just that. I used to be quite involved in that sphere but I consider it a lost cause now; any issues that uniquely affect us because of gender aren’t and won’t be taken seriously. It’s all kinda a moot point now.

[@BartitsuSociety]

@@liesdamnlies3372 I was writing a book on a related subject at the time and I looked into this point in great detail. I traced the "suffragettes shamed men into dying in war" misinformation to a specific manosphere blog post, but I can't recall the blog name, etc.

[@LilyMaeBaker]

I wonder if it was an assumption based on the white feather hat she was pictured in?

[@BartitsuSociety]

@@LilyMaeBaker No, the blogger I was referring to quoted Sylvia Pankhurst as mentioned in the video and then exaggerated his point for effect. It was quite clearly an attempt to cast the suffragettes as villains by conflating them with the Order of the White Feather.

[@janekalbinsky]

Thank you for this interesting video. From my German education, I am familiar with the jingoistic war-happiness sweeping the cities in the run-up to the war (young boys rushing through the streets of Berlin, shouting "et jeht los!" (It has started!), or young intellectuals giving well reasoned speeches about the necessity of violent rebirth...), but I haven't heard many stories from the other nations.

[@jonathanbowers8964]

Look at the insanity of 1917 in the US where propaganda went into overdrive to speed run nationalist hysteria. Within less than a year, dachshunds were being stoned in Cincinnati (a city with a huge German population) and millions of German Americans were coerced into changing their names. Such brutality was completely horrifying and shows the nefarious reasons that Wilson coerced America into joining a war we had no business joining.

[@roadrunnercrazy]

We forget that human nature is universal. The same stories are told by all sides of conflicts because people are people regardless of where we are born or the color of our skin. And yet for some reason, in the moment, we forget that and are willing to hate and kill our neighbors. It makes me so sad.

[@madtabby66]

Is this WWI? I should read up more on that side. But honestly I haven’t seen much pre Weimar on the German side.

[@D.M.S.]

The well educated and wealthy, yes. The regular people, farmers and so weren't so happy. They knew no one would look after their farms, families or homes. They were never really happy to go to war.

[@KathrinFranke-z4c]

Honestly, I can't remember doing WWI in great detail at school, but we were certainly doing WWII at least every other year between the ages of 14 and 18 for a couple of months at a time. Though it wasn't so much about what actually happened at the front but all the other stuff that was going on at the time (concentration camps and the resistance etc) - at least that's what I seem to remember.

[@mrflux9375]

all those wars before WW1 and followed by a "I don't remember" gave me a good chuckle

[@rbcc_ab]

Don't worry, I had to read "Kadaververwertungsanstalt" 3 times until I was able to succesfully take the word appart and figure out it's meaning and I'm a native speaker.

[@springbutterfly668]

as you talked about, early on in the war it was almost seen as a 'fun' thing to participate in, and for Australian volunteers enlisting was kinda seen as a sort of holiday. You sign up, you get to go to Europe, you get paid while you're there, et cetera. at least from what I remember.

[@8monday0110]

even today australia is such an isolated country. cant imagine what it wouldve been like, without commercial flights, most people not even leaving the area around the towns they were born in, many people being very poor and never having a chance to see the world otherwise, most people being descended from british immigrants who wouldve wanted to see 'the motherland' and of course help them out in the war effort, honestly it makes sense why so many signed up

[@Snakearm_]

12:25 hey that picture was a popular meme template couple of years ago "Dad what did you do in the great war?" "I did nothing" "Fuckin legend"

[@davidcarter5038]

"Letters From A Lost Generation: First World War Letters of Vera Brittain and Four Friends" is simply letters between Vera and four male friends who go off to serve (Followed by Vera who becomes a VAD). As you read the letters you see the mood gradually change from enthusiasm to horror.

[@Ibis117]

This "jolly jape" deprived me of both of my grandfathers. One was invalided out towards the end, and died in Jan 1919, and the other was captured (with his whole battalion) in 1917, and sent home in 1918. Plagued by ill-health from a year in a POW camp, he died in early 1921. One was 31, the other, 38. In both cases, my parents were under a year old.

[@emdeejay5515]

I am so sorry to hear this. What a shame for both sides of your family, and a sad loss. 😢

[@teresaellis7062]

😥I have no words.😥

[@mariannetfinches]

My grandfather died aged 45 after having spent 2 years in a POW camp during WWII. My mother was 15. She's never recovered from the trauma, and it reflected in my upbringing. War is ludicrous

[@SynGirl32]

British women explaining history and its repercussions in elaborate costumes is my new favorite genre of youtube videos.

[@devoted72]

And ...we are learning History, trivia, bit about architecture, Psychology 101, gaslighting...

[@Blackgriffonphoenixg]

Two places I openly wept and crouched down shivering in a panic attack at the Imperial War Museum: •The holocaust exibit •The WW1 exhibit in the section where it shows how all of British society effectively bullied and violently threatened its own people into signing up to go die a truly pointless death in miserable filth. Societies committing social murder/suicide with such glee is probably the most horrifying thing humanity could ever do.

[@liesdamnlies3372]

We get to watch it in real time now too (Russia). Ain’t that just fun.

[@emdeejay5515]

😢

[@wilberwhateley7569]

And people wonder why I am not a huge fan of human society as a whole…

[@SirAntoniousBlock]

@@wilberwhateley7569 Nihilism is also a dead end. Helping to oppose brutality can be a reason for living.

[@motherfucker42069]

>Societies committing social murder/suicide with such glee Did you mean to say "women"?

[@annbrookens945]

My (American) grandfather signed up for WWI at the age of 18 in 1916. He went to basic training 30 miles from his home in central Illinois, shipped out from New York and was sent to France. He used to tell us random stories about it: a well-read rustic who had never been far from home and was interested in everything. He attended regular army unit reunions my whole life. As I've learned more about the war in France, I've wondered if he was in the trenches. He certainly never mentioned mustard gas to us.

[@badart3204]

Not everyone got gassed so it’s possible it just never came up for him

[@wezza668]

maybe he was given a task in the logistical part of the army? Perhaps part of maintaining the camp or something like that

[@RobinTheBot]

If he talks about it, and had such a pleasant experience, he certainly didn't...

[@bencheevers6693]

Pals battalions had a really bad side effect as well as certain areas were completely destroyed at home, like a sickness, complete towns collapsed years after the war. Also that crucifixition story was shown in Paschendale and that image is burned into my head whenever I think about it, I get why that's such an effective idea.

[@Symbioticism]

One of my relatives received an anonymous letter during WWI admonishing him for not signing up (he was not allowed to because of his profession) with a white feather included. I wonder who sent it? Could have been anyone, a man or woman since it was anonymous. It seriously upset him by all accounts.

[@KathrinFranke-z4c]

Of course it would upset him. The person who sent it either didn't know anything about him, or they knew perfectly well and wanted to upset him for something that really wasn't his fault. What was your relation's profession, if I may ask? Just curious why his profession would stop him from being accepted.

[@Symbioticism]

@@KathrinFranke-z4c He was a pharmacist and because of the location of his chemist, he served the workers that were mining, so it was viewed as a key service. :)

[@JimLambier]

As a back story, I knew that my father served in the Canadian airforce in WW2 but never went overseas. He also had pneumonia as a child and had one of his lungs removed. I wasn't until his funeral, that my aunt, his sister felt she could share the full story with me. Apparently, he and all of his friends went together to enlist. They were all accepted except for him. My aunt was only a young child but she remembered him returning home angry and swearing more than she had ever witnessed before or after in her life. I guess he had been completely humiliated in front of his friends. Eventually, he was allowed to join but not allowed overseas. I've always been curious if any of these 'lucky' friends didn't return.

[@puffitale]

That’s one of the things that happened here in Australia. If you didn’t sign up, you were a coward - a chicken - so, you’d get a white chicken feather in your mailbox.

[@leeratner8064]

My mom's paternal grandfather, a Sephardic Jew from the Ottoman Empire, narrowly missed being a conscript into the Ottoman Empire by being a draft dodger in one of the Balkan Wars that pre-dated WWI. He had to sneak on the ship his wife was on. Their first son was born in the United States and their second son, my maternal grandfather, was born in 1913 in NYC in 1913.

[@SamAronow]

Thessaloniki?

[@leeratner8064]

Cannakale@@SamAronow

[@chrisrubin6445]

sounds like an absolute hero! THAT is what fighting for your familys safety looks like!

[@mwvidz324]

@@chrisrubin6445No it doesn't. That is not fighting it is fleeing. Fleeing can still be justified of course and in some circumstances smart or right thing to do. But a hero? No.

[@chrisrubin6445]

@@mwvidz324 hello Id like to introduce you to the concept of metaphor. If saving your own life and your family isn't a heroic fight, idk what is.

[@lucyj8204]

I learned a lot - not just about the subject matter but also how we think about the past and why nothing is new. Thank you!

[@ChristopherDraws]

A sign of a good video is not noticing almost half an hour pass - I totally thought you were leading into a part 2 with more detail about conscientious objectors! Thanks for the effort put into this, it was fascinating.

[@scarlettptheoriginal]

Ooh, I'd love to see a follow-up video about conscientious objectors!

[@angusmacdonald7187]

I come from very long generations (late marriages). Due to this, my grandfather found in the 2nd Boer War and WWI. Originally from Scotland, he emigrated to Canada and had joined the Royal Canadian Engineers for the 2nd Boer War. By the time WWI rolled around he had again moved, this time to the USA. He was infuriated that the US didn't join the war Day 1, so in November 1914 he renounced his US citizenship, became Canadian again, and re-joined the Royal Canadian Engineers so he could fight For King And Country. At the end of the war, having risen to sergeant, been gassed, and survived, he came back to the USA, where all was forgiven pretty much immediately and he became a full US citizen all over again...

[@angusmacdonald7187]

I should also add that my grandmother refused to watch any Marx Brothers films because They Didn't Fight In The War...

[@Valehass]

Toady all he'd have to do is blackface cross the southern border with everyone else and be given a smart phone, clothes and housing at the tax payers cost and when he inevitably started breaking the law because he had done nothing to get all these things and started to act entitled, the liberal DA would pled him down to a misdemeanor or get it thrown out entirely so he'd feel even more entitled and commit much MUCH worse crimes.

[@generalgrievous2202]

An excellent book on the Australian side of the topic is "The lost boys, The underage Anzac soldiers who fought in the First World War" By Paul Byrnes. He goes into several cases of underage boys (and even a girl! Who tried twice!) Who joined the Australian Imperial Force, and for various reasons were allowed to enlist despite being underage and in some cases not meeting the size requirements.

[@generalgrievous2202]

This book also covers the Australian branch/extension/copy-cats (I'm not quite sure which) of the order of the white feather

[@shelbynamels7948]

I could never understand why their stories were usually looked at with respect and admiration, yet the Hitler Youth joining the fight towards the end of WW 2 are considered misguided fools and losers. At least the Hitler Youth fought in the defense of their homeland against an advancing enemy. They didn't have to be shipped halfway around the world to fight an enemy in his own homeland.

[@generalgrievous2202]

@@shelbynamels7948 I've never really seen people call individual Hitler youths or Volkssturm (the militia they were drafted into) misguided, I've more seen horror and shock at the nazis drafting children. I think the difference between the Volkssturm and the 'lost boys', is that the former was drafted, while the latter volunteered.

[@shelbynamels7948]

@@generalgrievous2202 OK, sure. Honestly tho, I don't know which is worse.

[@purpleghost106]

@@generalgrievous2202 There was a lot of peer pressure though. Consider if you will that all the tactics spoken about in this video do apply to the other side. Boys are not immune to rhetoric aimed at men.

[@magnusanton]

Danke! For this excellently written and presented history lesson! I always enjoy your entertaining videos and I have learned a lot watching these.

[@EmmaCruises]

This was so interesting! Thank you. I love the ‘I don’t expect you to believe me without sources so grant me the same’. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 My source for this quote, is this video. 🤣

[@nycbigbear]

This morning, as I left my apartment, there was a small white feather on my doormat. I laughed about getting a White Feather. Then I opened my phone in the bus and saw the little photo of you with the big white feather and .. I almost choked

[@robertsmith-williams5255]

Haven't felt so disappointed that a video ended in ages! Fantastic work. Love the channel.

[@douglasparkinson4123]

one of the great stories of my family mythology is of one of my many great great uncles, who went up to a recruitment point, said he was 15 and he wanted to join up and fight. the man there told him to go back to the back of the queue, and when he reached the front again say he was 18 and he wanted to fight. he did. poor blighter ended up in a trench near vimy. survived the war, lived a long and happy life.

[@redsideburnz]

I love the J. Draper Patreon plug in the middle of the video! Perfectly placed and I got a good giggle out of it!😂

[@ericrabinowitz6390]

What is so splendid about your videos is that despite an enormous quantity of well-researched information, how often you leave us with more questions to answer for ourselves than you have answered. Marvelous!

[@christophercarden7023]

Thank you so much! Your presentations are cogent as well as brilliantly entertaining, VERY well researched; I always look forward to watching them. I am learning so much about British history from your unique perspective. The (Ironically) Great War (perhaps Great Slaughter is more accurate) was anything but; however, the world is still suffering the consequences over 100 years later (e.g., tragically, the Middle East among others). Brava!

[@Nucleotide5313]

It’s interesting you mention in post-war job interviews the interviewee is asked ‘what did you do during the war?’ I’ve had a job interview asking what I did during the pandemic. Obviously not comparable but interesting to see significant events having an impact on what others perceive each other by their activities during it. (I was a Scientist in the testing labs at the time).

[@SleepingWeasel67]

Thanks (I know all your videos deserve a Super Thanks, and this one is excellent as always), but this Super Thanks is for "The Ultimate London Tour: How To See The Absolute Most In One Day" where I couldn't find a Super Thanks button, but it definitely needs one

[@BrianHoskins-c6c]

My father was given a white feather. He was 14 at the time. He joined up in January 1918 at the age of 17. He also went right through the 2nd round finishing in 1947. I wonder if the "lady" concerned ever knew that.

[@DeandreSteven]

Women generaly dont careto hear about mens hardships. So i would wager not.

[@meganrogers3571]

A feather to a child?! The older I get, the harder it is for me to distinguish ages, but a 14yo does not look like an adult. That's ridiculous.

[@BrianHoskins-c6c]

I found a picture the other day of my father when he did join up. He was 17 at the time and still looked like a child. He ended up in the RAF and later rejoined in the twenties. He was on reserve in 1939 so straight in for the duration.

[@minxythemerciless]

My grandad Charles Smith, like many other signed up well under age. It only became a problem when he was offered a promotion from the ranks so he could accept a Military Cross for serious valour and leadership in the field . He would have been scrutinized a lot for the promotion, so he accepted a Military Medal instead.

[@mcziggydelamcmuffin5016]

Ooh, proper history talk. I love your fresh, fair and honest perspectives paired with active research. Love to see this growing on youtube

[@mindyprestage5772]

Thanks! I love your content.

[@Gotofy105]

Yeah, I imagine that stating, "Hey guys, want to be in a hole with a bunch of strange men in conditions so poor that you'll get sick by just standing still and will constantly be at risk of instant death from above!" wouldn't go over great for recruitment.

[@richsenecal]

Love your channel. If I ever get to London, and if you are still giving tours, I will be sure to hire you.

[@wallycola5653]

Life has been so good to me recently. Hildegard von Blingin posted a new bardcore cover yesterday, and now J Draper uploaded another longform video

[@davidioanhedges]

I like you choices ...

[@merryfergie]

J. Draper, You are so good at history lessons for us & You are brave. I appreciate you for sharing

[@acasta403]

As a man who fits the recruitment criteria, this is kind of terrifying to watch. Makes me imagine what I would've done at the time. Statistically I'd probably be out there, buried in mud, lead and guts.

[@bvd7517]

Love these deep dive videos. Always come away with a new perspective on something. Suffregettes being retroactively associated with the White Feather movement is something I hadn't even considered before, but makes so much sense. Let's see if any competing information turns up.

[@pkoziolek1]

consistently delivering best and the most honest videos on the platform, big thanks

[@jasontodd518]

Hey I was out of attention most of the time, but when you specifically talked about your research on getting clear on suffragette movement and white feather movement, I got so surprised and payed full attention. It was such an honest act for you to take a valuable chunk of time to walk us through your way to debunk a myth that's not even part of main plot, you are an honest hero, thank you.

[@paulroberts3639]

Ms Draper. Without a doubt, you are so very talented. Your acting skills, knowledge and enthusiasm are amazing. Also your aesthetic tastes and observations continue to enthral all of your audience. Each of your videos are wonderful. This video is another outstanding example of your knowledge and research skills coupled with you amazing screen presence. Thank you.

[@anthonyquinn5058]

Britain defending little Belgium while it has its boot on the neck of Ireland

[@springbutterfly668]

'little' Belgium? do remember that Belgium was also a colonial power. also that the same 'protect the Belgian women' call was also 'protect the French women' as well.

[@thehangmansdaughter1120]

Well said. There's England going on about the terrible things the Germans were doing to the poor Belgians, all the while committing war crimes a stone's throw from their doorstep!

[@awnaur0no919]

potato monkeys had it comin in all honesty... 🇨🇮🇨🇮🇨🇮🐵🐵🐵🍺🍺🍺

[@HDreamer]

Also worth mentioning that Britain would never have stood idly by watching Germany beat the french again, that would have upset the balance of power too much in Germanys favor. Britain would have joined the war eventually, Belgium or not.

[@katetuer8394]

Don’t you think that had Germany invaded Ireland that the British army would also be over there ‘protecting’ them? I’m not denying or defending their actions, but it’s a bit of a false equivalence. There’s multiple reasons why Britain entered the war and it wasn’t merely to defend Belgium. And other people have mentioned that Belgium was also a colonial power - all true and horrific things happened, but that doesn’t mean that the ordinary Belgian citizens shouldn’t have been given help - no matter how disingenuous.

[@roxyamused]

One thing that's always kinda haunted me about WWI was finding out that they considered men who crack from the trauma (i.e. "shell shock" or ptsd) as deserters and some were executed for "cowardice". All because of an involuntary reaction to the extreme stress and trauma of the trenches of WWI. As an autistic, I could absolutely see myself cracking like that under such horrid circumstances.

[@codyhorner7901]

Your KZbin shorts are always something I look forward to watching, but your longer videos are truly exceptional! Learned so much in this one!

[@rabidsamfan]

I love that you do your research and ask us to do the same.

[@gabitamiravideos]

Kudos. A true sign of honesty (and real scholarship) is being willing to follow the evidence, even when it disproves a position previously held.

[@michaelrossel7339]

Thank you for your take on that subject and in particular on the suffragettes role in it.

[@kurtismuzio7436]

Love it when you drop a longform video. Don't get me wrong the shorts are great but it always makes my day when you drop these 🙂

[@dannyseville2543]

This is an amazing video on a side of the war that doesnt get spoken about as much. Your delivery is what makes it so engaging. The only thing i'll say is if there is a way to show the 'sponsor' segment is actually part of the story then people wont miss that part if they usually skip them.

[@nathwest]

The quality and content of your videos just continues to improve day by day! I can't get enough!

[@Hrafnskald]

Great video :). It's interesting to see the strong parallels with both sides experiences during the beginning of the American Civil War, with high spirited volunteers, FOMO, and assumptions of a quick win. In at least one case, the 1st Battle of Bull Run, the local civilans even turned out in their fine clothes to watch the battle start. And like with British culture, the war signalled a big turn away from "war is always glorious and manly" as a default assumption.

[@PoecileCinctus]

It's so refreshing to stumble upon a KZbin channel with actual quality videos with thought-out, thoroughly researched points and above all traceable sources instead of the all too common "some guy on Facebook/Tiktok/Instagram once said thing x or I read it on Wikipedia so it must be true". Thank you for doing what you do!

[@1958plymouth440V8]

I really recommend that everyone watches the musical Oh! What A Lovely War, as it does a great job of bringing across the jovial and adventurous feel of early WW1 but isn’t afraid to shy away from the war’s eventual futility and tragedy. The musical is littered with clever symbolism and the scenes of recruitment are particularly amusing - for example, the music hall scene starring a young Maggie Smith, where she entices young men to enlist by suggesting they will all go out with a beautiful woman such as herself and she will make a man out of them. From a distance, she is subtly painted and is a beauty but up close, once the men have been dragged up on stage and are shoved towards the enlistment desk, they see that she is garishly and roughly made up. There’s even a recruitment scene down by the beach, where eager volunteers literally climb onto a moving bandwagon. Wonderful, wonderful film.

[@davidcarter5038]

The final scene is so effective

[@andyangyh]

Acted in the play in Plymouth when I was in my 30s having previously, as a 12 year old, seen the "Fields of Crosses" that are the devastating end shot of the film A few years later I wrote a song with that title that was taken up by a documentary about WW1. I have never forgotten those seemingly endless rows of white tombstones in the WW1 battlefields. Reading the numbers is one thing - seeing the evidence is something altogether different.

[@andyharding8630]

Brilliant! Thank-you entertaining a informative as ever. My grandmother was the suffragette;worked in a munitions factory. Married a former soldier of the Great war. She was amazing X

[@katetuer8394]

The only problem with your videos and content is that there aren’t enough of them!

[@historical.isolde7918]

This teacher and librarian was super excited with your disclaimer that people were more than welcome to provide additional or contradictory information, provided they cite their sources.... Really cool.

[@space_designs]

Ohh was hoping on this kind of video, ever since i heared about how excited people where to volunteer for the war i wondered why.

[@robertmaye8780]

One thing I truly love about your channel is The fact that you give sources. Keep up the great work!

[@finalGambitShedinja]

Thanks for making this video! a very interesting retrospective of propaganda. Maybe it’s just me but I feel like in the states, WWI is largely overshadowed by WWII in our education.

[@hannahk1306]

In the UK we tend to do WWI followed by WWII in our history lessons, which makes sense but also means that they have a tendency to blend together a little bit. I also think that WWII tends to be more memorable for us as it's more relatable: there was a lot happening on home soil in WWII (bombings, home guard, bomb shelters, victory gardens, etc). In certain parts of the country they literally learn which parts of their town or city survived WWII. For my generation and earlier, we also had living relatives who remembered aspects of WWII so it was very tangible history. My grandma has a story of running across the school field with her pudding in hand during an air raid and my grandad has a stories of being evacuated for example.

[@LoriCiani]

When I went to secondary school we got Modern History classes which dealt with the in between years, war reparations and loss of German territory, League Of Nations, depression era, spread of Germanic nationalism. There were so many fumbled and failed policies, so much residual anger and resentment that part 2 was almost an inevitability. The League Of Nations was supposed to make another war impossible, but because of failures of policy and crippling inaction we fell into another war. Well, that’s what I got from my classes anyway. 🤷🏻‍♀️. My dad fought during the second world war and my mum worked in the docks for a while before being sent to work for the land army after having a nervous breakdown. Neither of them wanted to talk about the war.

[@KathrinFranke-z4c]

Same in Germany for obvious reasons. We definitely did WWII more frequently than WWI, if we did WWI in any depth at all.

[@LoriCiani]

@@KathrinFranke-z4c I think it's because of the relationships between the major royal families of the time. Each one had at least one of Victoria's offsprings involved. It was a war of cousins and of disastrous alliances that ended in a land grab and crippling reparations. It was also the downfall of the German and Russian monarchies. The political systems of empires underwent change due the failed promises made to homecoming troups. The whole thing is a story of political manipulation, greed, politicaly shady pacts and a terrible waste of life, (the lost generation,) that was ignited by a student with a gun. Who'd want to let their children see that dark side? Yes, best skip over that pile of...mess, let's get on to the second world war, it's much clearer and simpler to explain. 👍

[@KathrinFranke-z4c]

@@LoriCiani Yes. We definitely did the in-between years as well, probably starting with the Treaty of Versailles. But I agree WWII definitely seems easier to explain in terms of good v bad.

[@JustsomeSteve]

@7:37 You missed a “ver” there. It was not “KadaVERwertungsanstalt” but “KadaVERVERwertungsanstalt”. But German is hard, and I don't even know what this thing could be, even though I understand the word. But I guess I'm going to learn it in the next few seconds.

[@SamI-bv9kd]

Hi J, Thank you. Once again you've hit it for 6. Your videos on the unknown soldier, the 'white peoples questions about slavery' and this one amongst many are humane, learned and witty, and also a masterclass in the historical process. It's always a joy when you treat us to a long form video.

[@L.K.Rydens]

As a person with PTSD (not from war though), and and advocate for people with mental health issues, your dark mentally-related humour gets a gold star ⭐ 😂❤️

[@rm6176]

WOW-to tell the truth, I don't ever recall hearing anything about the White Feather movement. Thank you for the history lesson.

[@madtabby66]

There’s a semi propaganda movie named “Four Feathers” 1939 version, have not seen the 2002 version. Basically an “intellectual” 🤢 child grows up in a family proud of how many died for the empire. He resigns his commission the day before he’s supposed to ship off to Egypt. His fiancé and 3 best friends each give him a white feather. But they use dove feathers as opposed to something big like shown here. So he goes to Egypt, passes himself as a Sangali mute, and saves his three friends then returns the feather to each of them after their rescue. Can’t remember how he gives the feather back to the girl, but being 1939 pro war movie, of course he is seen as the hero & gets the girl.

[@bobqzzi]

This is a terrific channel.

[@DCPTF2]

Incredible at lying

[@pendragon2012]

If I ever make it back to London, I'm definitely trying to take one of your tours! These videos are amazing!

[@donttakemeseriously3564]

Your long-form videos get better each time, the production value and humor are brilliant!

[@behemoth5344]

and she's also very easy on the eye, which doesn't hurt.

[@Deltaflot1701]

My first thought when I saw the title, was the "White Feather" Movement, and while I will never claim to be a historical expert, it is a bit of a hobby of mine in some areas. I love your take on the White Feathers. Thanks for this video.

[@kateflanagan9355]

I love how in Downton Abbey some women hand the Irish chauffeur some white feathers and he kind of just laughs at them. I think he goes on to tell them he can't be shamed into fighting for England because he's Irish

[@waffles3629]

"Crowd sourced historical research" 😅 I love it

[@ryreis5913]

So just found this channel and really enjoyed this video. You're an excellent and engaging presenter. One of the things I think can be a struggle is presenting history within the context of the society it occurs in, as I've heard it said once "The past is like a foreign country, they do things differently there," I think you did a reasonably good job of it without being too critical from a modern lense. Well done

[@walterl322]

Women with disposable income? The horrors of war are unimaginable...

[@austintinco1000]

Great video!!! Love how you crowd source the info with other videos! Great example of Murphy’s law! "the best way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer."

[@Catarigue]

Keep it up. Great video, J. Draper!👏🇬🇧

[@obsidianjane4413]

It is astonishing how good this content is with only basic props and images.

[@bob_the_bomb4508]

“I hope you’ve booked. Everyone seems determined to eat out the moment they arrive In Berlin…” Capt E Blackadder

[@turtlepenguinXkizuna]

“like pigeons to chips” is the greatest, I will be using this henceforth 😂