How To Count Varroa Destructor Mites with the Powdered Sugar Shake Method. Step by Step.

[@Ioreck]

As a complete layman who is considering getting in to bee keeping, these sorts of practical videos demonstrating how to perform key tasks is immensely helpful. Just small things like "Give the bees in the plastic tub a few minutes to let any foragers fly off," I wouldn't have thought of that. I'll admit seeing the poor girls shaken so much was a little sad, but I understand it's necessary to maintain the overall health of the colony.

[@FrederickDunn]

Thank you. I learned that if you don't really shake them up, the varroa don't dislodge as they should and you really miss varroa infestations. We do need to look more into the survival of shaken bees. I'm glad this video was helpful to you.

[@MrHighjumper83]

One of the most useful videos (of yours) I've seen lately! And that's saying something! Thanks Fred!

[@FrederickDunn]

Wow, thanks!

[@abstract1dea]

Thanks, Fred. This is timely for me as I just bought a sugar shake kit from a beekeeping supply place my wife and I stopped by on our way home from vacation last week. I'm going to look into my hives this week and see what counts I find. I haven't seen any indications of beetles as well. All three of my hives have been going like gangbusters this year. I have one that is working on honey and I may use the others to do some splits so I can have a bountiful harvest next year. I think next year is going to be a busy year and it was interesting to be able to catch a swarm and get them in a hive and they have been growing like crazy since day 1. This has really been fun and fascinating. Bee math.

[@FrederickDunn]

I hope you find good news in all of your hives :)

[@abstract1dea]

@@FrederickDunn It's a win - Win, no matter what I discover. In every path, I get to learn and do something new!

[@seanrichardson881]

I must say watching you put those bees back in that Hive had me shaking my head. I think I would just dump them in the weeds. Haha. I've never seen the sugar roll done. Dawn wash and a quick death seems like the best method. Thank you for the video!

[@FrederickDunn]

They will live several weeks, so putting nurse bees back on the hive makes it easier for them to return to their house-cleaning duties. All options are available of course. Washes with Dawn Ultra etc are always quick and easy but if your queen ends up in that mix she's dead. Some of the most capable beekeepers have killed their queens during mite-washes.

[@seanrichardson881]

@@FrederickDunn good point about the queen. I just have a hard time believing those bees really lasts more than 72 hours

[@jamestownsendjrtbees3226]

Thanks for the timely video. I will be checking mite counts as soon as I pull honey.

[@tommychew6544]

Thank you very much for showing this and getting back to the Layens hives, I know it's a Nitch thing in the US. I'm betting drones don't groom at all so it wouldn't work with them even though I think there may be truth to them being the tool they use to spread varroa mites like a previous video seemed to surmise, and that I think could be more likely than other thoughts by that DR's time spent experimenting looking into it. It feels like natural selection is starting to win out and they are being defeated by feral colonies that have survived for all the right reasons, nature adapting. Rises and fall in productivity are things that humans don't like to wait to see happen. I'm not a scientist but, I enjoy History, and trying to figure out the ways of things happening, sometimes the corrections are just letting the course play out. I love your videos!

[@FrederickDunn]

There is a whole bunch of wait and see going on. The live and let die doesn't always work, 100% of the hives in Pakistan were lost due to parasitic mites and that includes feral or managed hives. It's a game of roulette... it's a poor parasite that causes the complete destruction of its host. BUT, genetics are definitely the future if we want honey bees to remain viable. I'm glad we have some very good people working on that.

[@tommychew6544]

@@FrederickDunn The genetics aspect of is why I will not buy package bees. I don't want to bring in something to my area that wasn't here before. I'm holding with trying to catch a local feral swarm. I don't know of a beekeeper within several miles of my property and the few bees I started seeing last summer, after 2 summers of not seeing a honeybee in my yard, are getting my hopes back up of catching a swarm off of them. Time is running out this year though. I'll start open feeding pretty soon if the rain doesn't start coming, the worst part of the summer is still ahead.

[@Meekseek]

@@FrederickDunn sickening!

[@FrederickDunn]

@@tommychew6544 Once you have a good line going in your area, I highly suggest that you continue working with them unless they prove that they aren't making it. It's taken me since 2007 to get my stock to this point of low treatment and high survival, with infrequent genetic boosts from the BeeWeaver Queens. Lots to learn and observe here. I hope your bees will adapt and improve under your management.

[@sonofthunder.]

know you know this but id do drones too at same time,i sure hope your low count is accurate,cause thats awesone,i saw a mite on done pupae other day so im hitting with OA,Getting used to the instavap,and the cleaning the bowl process,Happy independence day 🎉

[@FrederickDunn]

I am definitely including the drones in my counts this year. I think we'll see more nearer the end of summer.

[@kareneaton3395]

I saw DFW also. At 5 min to 5:39 you show newly emerged bees on a frame. You can see at least 2 with deformed wings.

[@FrederickDunn]

Thanks, Karen! :) It's so nice to see a comment from you :)

[@joeelam1]

John @ Hillco also sells a extractor that does both layens & Langstroth frames, it swaps the reels.

[@FrederickDunn]

I am going to have to visit with John at the next Hive Live Conference... I just may have to take a hard look at that extractor! Thanks.

[@GrillingNetwork]

Another great video Fred! Appreciate you sharing this!!

[@FrederickDunn]

Thank you :)

[@redfish440]

Thanks Fred, happy 4th to you and yours, God Bless .

[@FrederickDunn]

Thanks! Same to you and yours!

[@timothymitchell8310]

I didn’t finish the video with doctor underwood and I’ve never seen a sugar shake as vigorous as what you were doing. While you were doing it , the thought came to mind of how forcefully do you shake the bees and I thought that too strong a shake would kill some of the bees and then you said that a lot would not survive. Why not do the shake count followed by the dawn wash? I wonder, would get more results from the same bees collected?

[@seanrichardson881]

After that shake you know those bees aren't lasting very long. I like your idea and see how accurate the sugar shake really is

[@timothymitchell8310]

Just giving it more thought. If mites are embedded in and under the bee . Wouldn’t they be shielded more from the shake and the bees that don’t survive the shake re-introduce mites back into the hive?

[@FrederickDunn]

Hi Timothy, if the shake isn't vigorous enough you don't get an accurate count. If you want to know how effective your sugar shaking method is, perform your sugar shake and then keep the same bees in the jar and add your alcohol or Dawn Ultra solution and complete the wash to see if there were risidual mites remaining on the bees. With lighter shaking or just leaving the bees to dust themselves you'll find that the follow up wash most often shows that you missed mites. These are practical tests we each need to do so you know if what you're doing is releasing the mites or not. Done this way, your sugar shakes will be very accurate and some of the bees can live for weeks after. Dawn Ultra Free and Clear is the cheapest method, but if you get your queen in there... she's not shaken, she's dead. I've never had that happen but I watched a top level keeper kill his queen in a demonstration. (';'). If you do the pracical testing I describe here, you'll arrive at the proper amount of agitation to get the mites off.

[@dougwhitmore8104]

Thank you Fred for another informative video. I’m going to try the sugar shake for the rest of the year instead of the alcohol wash that I’m currently using. Having lost several queens last year after mite treatments, I’m starting to wonder if I may have killed them during mite count inspections with alcohol washes. I was wondering what your thoughts on the Apimaye hive is after a year’s experience. I’m experimenting with 3 Apimaye hives, 3 Lyson 10 frame and 2 Lyson 8/9 frame hives. I’m also keeping 12 wooden hives. I’ve kept bees in wooden hives only, up until this spring. Last year I suffered a loss of 50% of my hives over the winter. As a reference point, we had numerous days here in Kennebunk, Maine with temperatures in the 40’s and 50’s with rather severe drops as the sun set into the 20’s or below. I felt that if the hives were better insulated, the bees would have had more of a gradual drop in temperature, thereby allowing them to safely cluster. Would love to hear your thoughts. All the best, Doug

[@Huntnlady7]

Excellent tutorial!

[@FrederickDunn]

Thank you!

[@Calypso4me]

Awesome info as always Fred. I did not think that the foundation would sag to such a degree. Thanks for sharing the links below Fred.... what about that hand vac of yours? Thanks for all you do.

[@FrederickDunn]

I keep those protable vacs with me so I can collect the strays as I close up, makes it easy. They are the Shark UltraCyclone Pro Cordless Handheld Vacuum, with XL Dust Cup... they have never killed a bee for me, and are super handy. I keep one on charge and take the other with me. When you're through, just open the compartment and let them out. :)

[@Calypso4me]

@@FrederickDunn That is so clever Fred! Thanks for sharing your tips, best practices with us!

[@rickwarner516]

Great video going to use this for my hive to hero family thank you Fred ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@FrederickDunn]

You are so welcome :)

[@kennith.]

Thank you for sharing. Happy 4th of July to you and your family.

[@FrederickDunn]

Same to you!

[@blackberry5908]

Hi Frederick, What can I do if humidity levels are around 90% all summer long ?

[@FrederickDunn]

I would open the entrance all the way on large colonies. Or, you can also add a queen excluder then vent the top a little. I'll be talking about this a little on Friday.

[@blackberry5908]

@@FrederickDunn Sorry Frederick I was not clear. Last time I did the sugar roll all my sugar clumped in less than 2 minutes because of high humidity. Is it still reliable ? Thanks for the humidity tips didn't know that either.

[@lambbrookfarm4528]

Thanks for the nudge! Happy 4th!

[@MinnesotaBeekeeper]

How could you not severely damage bees with the heavy shaking? Randy Oliver came to the same damage done conclusion. On the other hand. Dumping a pound of powdered sugar into a package of bees, leaving them to groom. The mite drop out of the package is an eye opener. Not suggesting a comparison Fred. Wondering about mixing a bit of Dawn in an alcohol wash?

[@FrederickDunn]

The Dawn Ultra Free and Clear (no alcohol) is the most thorough mite drop solution I've found, and you mentioned Randy Oliver, he's the reason I made that switch. With the shaking, if it's not really vigorous it's almost not worth doing as many mites remain on the bees. I'll talk about that on Friday during the Q&A as there are other questions related.

[@timfeckley1689]

Happy 4th Fred. Did mite check last week suspicious as well 5 hives 0 mites alcohol wash 90% I’m thinking another check Aug.1st

[@FrederickDunn]

I think those mites are up to something! Stay vigilant, I'm glad you're doing counts and thanks for sharing.

[@rickabrams3422]

8:50 any particular reason why you don't put the sugar in first? seems less messy and the sugar will weigh them down and they will start grooming right away. it's also easier. no farting around with getting it through the screen. just curious.

[@FrederickDunn]

Hi Rick, I explained that during the demonstration. If you put the sugar in the jar first sometimes there are clumps and when you shake the jar those clumps really pound the bees and you'll see some dead ones. If the sugar is really dry and you're sure it's not clumping then definitely faster and neater to put it in the jar first. Putting the sugar through the streen breaks it up and dusts the bees a little better in my experience. Try both and see what you get.

[@Ittiz]

Was that originally one of/descended from your Beeweaver hives? Also other bee KZbinrs I follow have noted very low varroa mite counts as well this year.

[@FrederickDunn]

Nearly all of my colonies have been derived by BeeWeaver stock on some level, but this hive has requeened itself a couple of times.

[@LovingAtlanta]

👍💝Amazing to watch. Thank you.💝

[@FrederickDunn]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@jamesbarron1202]

I know the Verroa prefers drones but do they attack the nurse bees more than the working foragers bees? Also do the nurse bees feed inside the Rapid Round feeders or is that only workers? I always visually inspect for mites on the bees inside my Rapid Round clear covers. I’ve never seen a mite and I know that’s not an accurate test. I never test but I treat a lot. OA and Apiguard rotation.

[@_Trojo]

I’ve used Layens hives for a few years now and I’ve never had frames that looked anything like the ones in the beginning of this video. Do you think they built out the frames with the foundation first and it got wonky because the next frame was foundationless? I enjoy your videos a lot! Thanks for all the information!

[@FrederickDunn]

Definitely... if all of the layens frames had wax foundation in them then that comb wouldn't be so dynamic. I actually don't mind it at all since these aren't headed for any automatic processing.

[@almostagardener4549]

I’ve had four full foundations frames collapsed over the last two years I’ve been experimenting with half, quarter and foundation starter strips. I used starter strips for three years with no problems. Just started using half and quarter foundation for the last few months the verdict is still out. I found that no foundation works well.

[@FrederickDunn]

Hmmmm... I like the idea of cutting those wax foundation sheets in half, also becuase they are VERY Expensive. I have a box of that on the shelf. Thanks for sharing! I think that could indeed solve that sagging issue.

[@ME_MeAndMyBees]

Hi Fred. Nice Lang Hive Setup. Why use Commercial Foundation Comb ??? Not good for the Bees. Here in Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 All my Hives use / have Natural Comb the Bees make and need. Healthier all around. What's not to like ? 👍 Especially Warre Hives : As they use Top Bars of Timber (Cut Down from creaky old Frames.) 😉 Although I'm moving these to Frames too. . . My Langstroth and UK Nationals Bees are all in : Regular Deep Brood Boxes for all the Hive. Even for Honey Supering uses Deep Frames. In my Horizontal Hive the Bees are on Jumbo Deep Frames mainly re Brood. All with Tight Horizontal Wiring and a Dribble of Melted Natural Beeswax under the Top of the Frame : Means the Bees can draw out Worker, Drone Comb as required. They do attach to the Sides and the Bottom of the Frame, with plenty of Bee Communication areas dotted about. Nice. This Year I have made my own Warre Hive and associated "Frames" to fit. Makes any Bee work (or Inspections !) much easier. Top Bars in WH are often all well waxed in. Nothing budges in these Boxes. 🤭 So Yes, if you can go all Hive wise with No Foundation ! The Better. It's getting Expensive. Has more residue of Chemicals in it now than ever before : As more Wax Exchanges take back more used Wax, (I think it will get worse.) 🥴 Bees really are "Wax Makers" in early Spring and Summer. Let them make it to the Max by Checkerboarding New undrawn Frames between lasts years ones. That way you always have plenty of good healthy Wax for the Bees to use. Crushing and Straining is Madness ! Drawn out Wax is worth its weight in Gold. Use it wisely in the Hive that made it. (To Reduce VM /Disease pathways !) Keep it Stored away from Mice and Wax Moth. Cool Dark is best. And by doing this, your way ahead, next Bee Season ! Bees will make Honey Faster when Comb is their already. Not wasting valuable food and time on building that Foundation out. 😕 Have a go at lovely yummy Naturally Drawn Honey Comb (with no crunchy midline of Foundation Wax) in their ! Just Saying. Your own Wax is way healthier to your Bees and you too. It takes 3lb of Feed to draw out 1lb of Wax. So refrain from Crushing or Damaging it. 🤞 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 Happy Beekeeping 2023 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝

[@_Trojo]

I’ve used Dr. Leo’s foundation in 1” increments at the top of the frame and they work wonderfully. I usually mix in a full sheet and partial sheets. I leave a full sheet at the end during the heat of summer and leave the divider board at the unused end. I believe that helps them cool off the hive. The worker bees hang out in the unused area.

[@Peter_Gunn]

Happy 4th

[@FrederickDunn]

Same to you Peter!

[@thegr8stm8]

G’day Fred and TWTB Fellowship… Happy 4th to y’all… be safe. Another gr8 video Fred… very educational. Maybe one of your IT Team could note all those videos essential to newbeeks and put the link under “The Way Frederick Dunn Does Beekeeping”… 🍻 Johno

[@TerryWheelyabarrabackApiary]

Hello Fredrick. I'm presently concerned about DWV and thought there would be words on this topic as it's mentioned in the title. I currently have a hive showing symptoms of this hideous disease. I don't seem to find much information on the net about it. Mostly treat for mites but not what to do if you have a hive with DWV. Do you have any info on it, or is my hive just doomed?

[@FrederickDunn]

Because DWV is so strongly associated with varroa mites the focus is almost always on mite control/irradication. Because it occurs in brood, once mites are down you should see those physical symptoms go away. If you don't have high mite numbers, then you won't see this kind of wing damage.

[@TerryWheelyabarrabackApiary]

Thank you. You calmed my nerves. I gave them one more treatment of oxalic acid after Formic pro. Still saw a few mites.. I had no mites and then robbing started. I battled that and 2 weeks later the mites started to show. And then a few bees with DWV. set the hives up for winter now. Hopefully all will be well by spring.

[@enricotoesca3941]

Fantastic 🐝🐝🐝🐝 ❤❤❤❤

[@FrederickDunn]

Thanks Enrico!

[@enricotoesca3941]

@@FrederickDunn You ' re welcome 🥰🥰🥰🥰

[@sonofthunder.]

wasnt sure if you mentioned DWV,...were you seeing bees with bad wings,i couldn't tell,thanks for the video

[@sonofthunder.]

update,saw your info in the description info once i looked further,thanks,was having trouble editing my comment,?

[@FrederickDunn]

Yes, just after the 5 minute mark, there is a classic example. Varroa have been or are currently active in this colony and it needs attention.

[@rtxhoneybees]

The lethality of the sugar shake would be easy to test. Just put them in a well ventilated cage with some feed and put another unshaken scoop in an identical cage. Check back at intervals of an hour, 3 hours, 6 hrs, 12 hours, 1 day.

[@FrederickDunn]

Yes, lots of ways to see how they are impacted. Dr. Robyn Underwood said they may still live a couple of weeks but it's not as harmless as we've so often thought. I haven't done any testing or observations on that here.

[@rtxhoneybees]

@FrederickDunn if they live a couple weeks, I'd say that's not too lethal. My attention span wouldn't allow me to monitor them for that long! I just do the OA treatment followed by a check of the mite drop so it doesn't really apply to me.

[@bradgoliphant]

Hey Fred. I just recently learned from Inside the Hive TV, that ends up the sugar roll is not that different from the alcohol when it comes to bee deaths. Ends up, Umberto reported that the bees shaken with powdered sugar end up dying 24-48 hours later. We’re you aware? Thx for the video

[@FrederickDunn]

Dr. Umberto is a good friend. But the sugar shaken bees can live weeks after a sugar shake treatment. I will agree that some of the shaken bees may die from the agitation within that 24-48 hour period. The alcohol wash is 100% kill instantly. So, with alcohol washing they are definitely done. With the sugar shake, some will live a week or more. If one of my viewers misses the queen and she's in that alcohol wash... poof. done. However if the queen ends up in the sugar shake mix, she can live long enough to be superceded once the resident nurse bees realize that she is injured. This is a good topic for debate. Did Dr. Boncristiani state that 100% of the sugar shaken bees are dead within that 48 hour period? If so, then we have conflicting data from other entomologists who've made those observations. You can do a deeper dive here: www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/11/10/4458

[@bradgoliphant]

@@FrederickDunn no it was not 100%. I was just pointing out that most people, at least I believe, are under the impression the sugar shake does not kill bees-it does. It injures them-most of them at least. But I most certainly agree it’s safer if the queen is shaken accidentally. Thx.

[@davidsoloninka7742]

How do u harvest honey from the layens frames?

[@FrederickDunn]

crush and strain, or cut-comb. I wish I could put them through the extractor.

[@willjohnsonjohnson]

I wonder if a double ended jar would work better, that way you can get the sugar on and off the bees from both ends without shaking them so much.

[@FrederickDunn]

You still have to shake them quite a lot in order to free the mites, but having a double jar setup would definitely be a less messy method for sure. Is there one that you recommend?

[@davidpatrick1813]

will any powdered sugar be used or a special thing?

[@FrederickDunn]

Just standard confectioner's sugar will be fine. The finer it is, the better it seems to work. Try to keep it very dry, if the humidity starts clumping it up I'd get a new pack. In this video I can see that this sugar is getting to the end of its usefulness.

[@frankspataro9714]

Can see how that wouldn't really work on alot of bees I don't think they all groom the same and well I honestly don't think that would work much at all should try the same hive with alcohol and sugar next month just see good it really is lol

[@FrederickDunn]

Hi Frank, I've historically done mite washes with the Dawn Ultra, and the Alcohol washes. If you do the sugar rolls correctly, the results are very close if not the same. Sugar shakes and alcohol washes are both effective methods for counting varroa mites in honey bee colonies. In a study published in the journal Apidologie, researchers found that the two methods produced similar results, with a correlation coefficient of 0.92. This means that there is a strong relationship between the number of mites counted by each method. The advantage of sugar shakes is that they are less time-consuming and less harmful to the bees than alcohol washes. However, sugar shakes can be less accurate than alcohol washes, as some mites may not be dislodged from the bees during the shaking process. Ultimately, the best method for counting varroa mites will depend on the individual beekeeper's preferences and needs. If accuracy is paramount, then alcohol washes may be the best option. However, if time is a factor, then sugar shakes may be a better choice.

[@ricklaudermilk9400]

Happy 4th 🎉🎉

[@FrederickDunn]

Thanks, same to you!

[@robertmathurin739]

🇱🇨👍🏼♥️

[@Meekseek]

"DWV - Deformed Wing Virus is evident in some of these bees" What is happening in the terrain? Look up!

[@FrederickDunn]

I'm not sure what you're saying here? Look Up? What does the terrain have to do with it? Please provide more information, thank you.