How to Create Personal Unions in EU4

[@quasar9768]

Another important aspect is that eu4 compares each pu to you individually for power and economy calculations, unlike vassals, where it compares all of them combined

[@rickbergolla4055]

Yeah and vassals don’t take the PUs into account when considering “their” power vs yours

[@Anttheman93]

Love PU’s just hate you can’t make money off them without effecting their LD.

[@ΜαρίνοςΤ-μ4ρ]

Imo you are the best strategist in EU4 from all the content creators.

[@iulianlupastean7038]

It's nice but only worth it for bigger countries. In regards to PU's I prefer BudgetMonk's strategy of you switching your dynasty to the one of a more powerfull nation (e.g. Trastamara, Valois, Rurickovich, etc.) and after that wait for their ruler to die and claim throne. I did this as Byzantium to France Spain and Russia, and by 1600 I had the 3 of them as loyal PU's and my wardogs.

[@thestudentYT]

Oh, you will like my next video a lot then ;)

[@notme8232]

Christian Japan lets you just rename your ruler "Rurikovich" when he's still a general, and it counts and lets you PU Russia

[@iulianlupastean7038]

@@notme8232 damn, the more you learn about this game

[@notme8232]

@@iulianlupastean7038 Sadly, it doesn't work on two word surnames, as "de Valois" and "von Habsburg" are read as surname "Valois" and "Habsburg" respectively. However, Tudor, Hohenzollern, even Osmanoglu if you Force Religion on the Ottos, all work fine.

[@GameyRaccoon]

​@@notme8232it's von Hohenzollern though, isn't it?

[@maksotto5081]

It actually matters how many provinces you give to PU, because you still need to powercreep them, especially in rich regions like France or Italy where your PU will have significant economy and army.

[@thestudentYT]

I think I said that in a sentence as well in the end but anyways it is still a huge (actually the main Problem) of large vassals that you simply don't have with PU's and trust me: 4k dev PUs are no Problem to keep loyal with 100k troops because they also get a malus on their FL

[@baurzhanaldabergenov2263]

It is better to create PU's with dead countries with a lot of cores and claimes like Provence. In your example video it should be Hungary

[@RandomGuy-qr5jw]

The strongest Vassal type (as your thumbnail claims) are eyalets imo. Just being nitpicky here, I know :-) For most nations its PUs. But help me out here: Why would your want to feed land to your PUs, unless they need it for missions or have cores on it? You still pay full AE, you still have to pay for annexing eventually. Yes, you safe a bit of admin points for the moment, but those never kept me from going ham on expansion. Plus overfeeding them might result in me having to spend to much of my economy on maintaining an army to keep them loyal, hindering my economic growth. I am honestly curious for your reasons. You are far more knowledgeable in EU4 than I am, but from my point of view this effort, especially for tiny minors like Lusatia, does not seem worth it at all. I would rather annex them instead of wasting my diplo relations. But I guess I am wrong here?

[@thestudentYT]

It is usefull to make them big so that you have another big Army for your wars (this is why Poland is so strong in the early game) and also it's not just the Admin Power saved but also the Governing Capacity... you cannot own all of europe directly by 1500... but 3-4 PUs can Also the relative strenght modifers is honestly irrelevant if you have at least kind of a functioning economy and Army yourself as PUs only compare their own strenght to yours without any other subjects strenghts and entirly wothout subjects developement modifer

[@wachtwoord5796]

Eyalets the strongest? I'd say Daimyos I think.

[@Jalinar861]

Gov cap and % of direct inheritance if you go hight on dip rep

[@aqvamarek5316]

He plays HRE Emperor, there is a point, were all your European PU join the HRE for free, and than you press 1 button to annex them.

[@aqvamarek5316]

@@wachtwoord5796 Eyalets are easiert to set up and to use. And you can leech them totally clean from income and manpower. I even release OPM's, only to make them Eyalet. They still join every war (they get like +2 favor a month as OPM), they only offer there capital forts (no army, because manpower, income and Army limit is leeched by you, the overlord), and this capital forts are first target of any "AI" nation, because weakest war patentience. So you can extremly fast snowball with them. And if you add "cheese" like +50 relation for orthidox to muslim relgion witch, 4 times repeated, you can vassal half of ethopia, north africa, and arabia in the first 5 years.

[@edim108]

Im partial to Pronoia and Eyalets, but I'd be delusional to think Peronal Unions aren't great. They work best if you manage to get someone big like Burgundy or a dead tag with loads of cores and claims like later game Provance or Hungary, as they don't get liberty desire from development so the only limiting factors are your force limit and maintaining possitive relations.

[@Dorrzo]

great video, i had no idea. btw i think you can maybe bypass the -200 relations mallus if you manage to get into negative relations with the vassal before you abandon them. Atleast it worked with client states. wiki says it has to be +50 Liberty Desire for vassals to not get relations mallus though so i might be wrong but that's also achievable rather easy i think.

[@christopheripoll2580]

Depends on your campaign target. In a WC, personal union only worth it for large countries. Otherwise, it is much better to get vassal integration after 10 years. You cycle vassalizations and annexations. Personal union over Moravia is pointless or even detrimental to your growth.

[@MrBrock314]

If you get the personal union reduction time bonuses, personal unions don't take much longer than 10 years. Anything you want to annex in 10 years probably isn't worth vassalizing unless it's pretty early game.

[@TheMelnTeam]

This is very helpful for achievements that require PU, but I'm not a fan of the subject type generally. 50 years to start integrating is a long time (even 40 with the policy is long), and if you're stacking -dipannex to get to/near 0.1 dip/dev, you want fast turnaround. Grant province + prestige + developing in subject land can keep ~500-1000 dev subjects stable long enough to annex even during age of reformation, assuming you have enough modifiers that you can annex them in a reasonable timeframe. There are only a few tags significantly larger than that, so IME the PU tricks are most useful when the achievement demands them, in which case they help quite a bit!

[@geeweebox]

Ah, I hope EUV is as janky as EUIV. We're just starting to reach the true knowledge ceiling 😂

[@CherriPicking]

Aside from the obvious (just trucebreaking), you can save 10 years off of the truce by instead making them disloyal and simply breaking vassalization. This results in a short 5 year truce at the cost of 25 prestige. While the prestige loss kinda sucks, I'd say it's worth it for the fact that it's much more consistent with the much shorter truce time!

[@thestudentYT]

But you still need to wait 5 years after releasing them before you can break the vassalization + the 5 year truce after breaking it so it's 10 Years instead of 15 but yes that would have been better

[@CherriPicking]

@thestudentYT That is true, but I'd still say it's better since the nation would only be independent for 5 years and you can wait to put your dynasty on their throne until just before you give them up, as opposed to this strat which relies on them keeping the low legitimacy heir for 15 years.

[@thestudentYT]

You don't lose the Claim if the Heir strenght becomes average though but yes 10 years is definetly better than 15

[@rasplay5761]

its mostly useful only with Moscovites, in order to PU Russia

[@tomriddle8933]

Id be more interested to know how to force personal unions on countries that arent already your vassals.

[@thestudentYT]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/nniVp3WEjdCMoNUsi=mQpzlVcUHPxV5Z2F

[@tomriddle8933]

@thestudentYT thanks

[@commanderstorm8874]

The one thing I don’t like about pus is that it takes ages to integrate them after waiting 50 years not including if the revolt or get free and if there big it takes even longer

[@MrBrock314]

Get the Austria monument to reduce that. :)

[@XinyangZhang888]

is it possible to abuse this alongside the ruler suicide trick so that you can cycle inheritance and get your PUs' land for free?

[@thestudentYT]

Maybe... but you'll have to wait until next week ;)

[@cinnanyan]

It's better to truce break if you're going to do this, claim strength of heirs usually grows too quickly otherwise. If you have good stability cost modifiers stacked, as well as diplo ideas, the penalties for truce breaking aren't so bad.

[@thestudentYT]

Sure you could do that but keep in mind that on those two examples over here I kept the PU CB even after the heir strenght was average... so no problem there

[@HAMMERMAAN]

If you claim throne on a weak claim heir, you don't lose it when the claim strength improves

[@yuckfusuf]

Imagine using this with Denmark's unified Kalmar monarchy reform

[@owcom]

Couldn't you just break vassalization instead of war? Are there any drawbacks to that?

[@thestudentYT]

Yeah but you would need to wait 10 years for that anyways as well

[@owcom]

@@thestudentYT The truce after breaking vassalization is 5 years. If u already have vassal (so you don't have to wait for truce after relasing them) its probably faster way(and lower chance of you losing cb/them losing heir/ruler)

[@wachtwoord5796]

​@@thestudentYTbut this was 15 right? How is this better?

[@Jalinar861]

​@@thestudentYTwhy 10? It's not just 5 years like other diplo interactions ex. revoking a guarantee? You'll get a prestige hit and a huge relation malus ("overlord abondoned us" or sth similar) thou

[@jorry1992]

@@Jalinar861 You dont get the relation malus if they are disloyal, so just toggle scutage a few times first.

[@zigedelic3909]

Alright, time to play Denmark for the boosted PUs

[@abrvalg321]

When you release them in a peace treaty don't former vassals get an opinion penalty if they were loyal? Wouldn't it help to just click and unclick scutage till they get disloyal and release them by yourself?

[@thestudentYT]

I think that penalty is only there if you release them manually via diplomacy... but yes the the Scutage Trick is very helpful

[@inputlag2975]

Ok guys since this is the Professional audience please explain why is it pu's can run a bigger way bigger army then vassals ?

[@thestudentYT]

Vassals get a so called "vassal penalty" for them being a subject which gives them a flat -3 land force limit as well as a flat -0.5 monthly income, also they pay 10% (base) of their income to their overlord... So PUs have their full Force Limit and their full Money which is why they can have way larger Armies (also typically PUs can simply have more dev as vassals as well)

[@inputlag2975]

@@thestudentYT ich küsse dein Herz vielen Dank

[@varkusor6899]

it doesnt always works sometimes they spend mil points to get legitimacy

[@echoscopsy2751]

You could PU Ming/Papal States by this trick in older patches. Is that still available?

[@thestudentYT]

I don't think so for the Pope but Ming should be possible if they were christian

[@echoscopsy2751]

@@thestudentYT you can give your dynasty vassal to a nation. Then get a claim throne on your vassal. When you dowed, you would enforce PU on their Liege since they are the one you are dealing peace with. If this is not fixed

[@cinnanyan]

You can't do Ming now because they have a fixed dynasty

[@thestudentYT]

@@cinnanyan Even if they lose the Mandate of Heaven?

[@adonis1168]

best subject type is core eyalet

[@CJEndgame]

How did you lose the cb on Florence?

[@MephistoDosh]

They got an heir with an average claim.

[@thestudentYT]

No that cannot be the Problem because thr others had an average claim as well after the truce ends so you don't loose the claim if you had one before

[@afridge8608]

You can also break vassalization to avoid the 15 year truce?

[@thestudentYT]

Yeah then it's just 10 years

[@afridge8608]

Im pretty sure its 5 but could be wrong oh well. Maybe if you lose him in a 5% peace deal it could be like 6 year truce

[@thestudentYT]

Yes it is 10 years: 5 Years after releasing and then another 5 years truce after breaking the vassalization... you have to think it to the end mister ;)

[@Tragantar1310]

How can PUs be the best if Pronoiars exist?

[@thestudentYT]

Pronoias are definetly strong but the only way to get them is to play as Byzantium or Rome... so let's say PUs are the Best Generic Subject Type okay? :)

[@Tragantar1310]

@@thestudentYT touchè!

[@xDawe36]

This video is generally bad advice, as artificially creating new PUs and maintaining them is a lot more trouble than the reward you're gaining from them. I understand the advantages of the individual mil/eco strength and no development liberty desire, but unless you're either a new player who doesn't yet know well enough how to maintain liberty desire in subjects properly, or you're pushing eu4 to it's limits doing crazy stuff like opm vassal overlord, I think there's absolutely no need to go through all this trouble when you could just release 2-3 vassals/marches instead and reconquest their land in the next war. If you're looking for extra ai troops to help aid you in your conquest then marches are an obvious superior choice due to the send general interaction, and them getting extra bonuses. (but I'd rather use player troops as ai is famously stupid) You also have to be careful not to ever be in negative relations with your PU when your ruler dies. If you ever want to integrate them it does take way longer (50 years) before you can start doing it. Them having the same ruler statline is pretty much the only advantage since the player will generally be able to obtain an above average heir, so at least they are not stuck with their 1/0/0 king. If you really want to make sure your vassals/marches stay loyal you could leave them as an OPM and build a max level fort so they keep going into debt, then farm 100% liberty desire reduction on repay loans, as many creators already suggested. You can develop them a few times if you still need more liberty desire, but generally as long as you keep them from growing gigantic (seriously release a new vassal instead), you should be able to stay on force limit and keep the relative strength down.

[@thestudentYT]

I disagree with your understanding in several points but of course you don't have to see this the same way if you think you're right ;)

[@xDawe36]

@@thestudentYT I guess it depends on what the goal of the run is, and what self-imposed restrictions one gives to themselves

[@xDawe36]

If you disagree, feel free to explain why. I might be wrong here, nowadays I play MP more, so a level-headed debate could be very useful for us and potentially anyone reading this

[@thestudentYT]

@@xDawe36 Actually I already explained the exact same reasons and conditions in another comment here already and honestly I don't really feel like typing that essay again XD So maybe you could look it up there and then say what you still disagree on

[@xDawe36]

@@thestudentYT I scanned the comments a few times but only seen that you argue for being able to have a subject with a vast amount of land and still be loyal. My point is, why would you have a france PU when you could have 2-3 marches instead? What exact scenario are we talking about? Are we trying to world conquest, or larp something with restrictions? Gigantic PUs take much longer to integrate than a few vassals if you later want their land. The only time I say PUs are good if you can force it on an already big nation at a moment when claim throne is possible. PUing a small nation and feeding them land feels like a waste in most of the runs. Also you mention that you like it when your subject has a lot of troops so they can help you in wars. Ai is generally not preferable to actual human troops in both SP and MP (in vanilla at least), and if you wanna play with subjects who can help you militarily then marches are a much better choice... Still don't see why you don't just release 2-3 marches instead.

[@RealLiveWire]

On the subject of personal unions and thrones, is it possible to get the dynasty of a vassal on your throne? I want to play savoy and get the montferrat dynasty (palailogos) on my throne, but at the moment it says noble will get throne :(

[@thestudentYT]

Do you have a royal Marriage?

[@RealLiveWire]

@@thestudentYT yes only with them and I have lower prestige

[@thestudentYT]

@@RealLiveWire that's weird then... normally it should give you their dynasty then

[@Merapsco]

Kewl

[@gulabot]

They key to watching your videos is to play the video at 1.5 speed at least :D then it's perfect

[@Speedster___]

even are better in most respects id rather intergrate in 10 not 50 years

[@MrBrock314]

I wouldn't specifically get PU's on very small nations, but this trick would work on any size of country you could vassalize, which, is fairly substantial by mid-game where you're likely to start running out of vassal territory to reconquest. Plus, it gives you a country to split overextension with long before client states exist and that's almost as loyal as a client state.

[@hamuegg6042]

PU swarms lmao😂

[@joaovilaca1436]

Why would someone want to do this if not for that one achievement?

[@MrBrock314]

Mid-game PU's are effectively client states before client states exist. You can do a 100% warscore war on two different fronts. One you give to your PU and the other you give to you. No nasty overextension events even without CCR. This can be repeated ad nauseum until client states exist meaning that you can do it as soon as you either a) can juggle truces or b) don't care about AE which is going to be before 1680 in most cases. If both you and your PU are growing rapidly, you'll soon not care about coalitions and you'll stomp the whole continent and then world. For example, in my WC, I got early PU's on Poland, Bohemia, Hungary and later Spain. By that point, there was no one in Europe (coalition or not) that could stop me and the whole world fell because I outscaled my competition with like 4 wars and the world was my oyster at that point. It only takes a few good PU's to completely change the balance of any continent. Being able to create your own means you can now pick when that happens. You can do the same with vassal/march swarms but they typically start smaller and liberty desire will be an issue quickly if they grow to a decent size.