How to Debate a Cowardly Christian on Veganism (Tristan Tate vs Joey Carbstrong)

[@UnnaturalVegan]

Important point I can't believe I forgot! If Tristan really cares about humanity, well, veganism makes sense. Working in factory farms and slaughter houses is horrible for humans. Living near them is horrible for humans. They harm the planet, which is horrible for humans (although there's a good chance he's a climate change denialist). Zoonotic diseases? Not great for humans! Anyway, I have a pro-vegan vid for those who don't care about animals: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jX_YmJSul56Ah9U

[@sunsundks3891]

Great video Sway 👍

[@julioandresgomez3201]

I am a climate change denialist, but even that is the lesser evil. Factory farming is not sustainable, and grass fed just not viable (that´s why they started to feed grain in the first place, instead of holding on to totally free grass).

[@Kony-2012]

This is totally off topic but idk where else you’d see this comment. I just read about a raw vegan Zhanna D’art who just passed away from starvation. I don’t know if this is a topic you’re interested in covering but I thought I’d mention it just in case.

[@MdoubleHB...]

This video is just another distraction. It is meaningless. Just like the 3 people in this video.

[@MdoubleHB...]

Humans are frugivores and not omnivores. This is called species-specific diet. It is the most important thing to understand for humanity right now. Cooking destroys the food and most nutrients in it. This should be common knowledge by now. But the masses are still very ignorant and they are constantly distracted by nonsense. It is the reason, why we still live in the dark ages. To have paradise on Earth, humanity must adopt the species-specific diet. For more details: Douglas Graham, John Rose and Loren Lockman

[@Serioslump]

As a vegan Christian, I just want to say that I personally think Christ’s message very much aligns with veganism. I just tell non-vegan fellow Christians to imagine walking Jesus, the man who called on his followers to speak up for the oppressed and marginalised, through a slaughterhouse floor or battery chicken farm, and ask them what they think his reaction to this whole thing would be.

[@missloly824]

Also a vegan Christian. I cannot align the idea the showing mercy to the oppressed with supporting factory farming.

[@purplemaiden4283]

Another vegan Christian here 🙃 And yeah he didn’t really even use Christianity to support his views, except for “the dominion over animals”. The Orthodox Christians I’ve met have responded very positively to me being vegan. Orthodoxy also has a fast during Lent which is mostly vegan!

[@Lex.Lee.]

🙌🏻

[@simoneconde5564]

Yes yes yes! Very well said 😊

[@fairykun]

this is exactly it!!

[@sweetness583]

Tristan literally has no argument. He says he doesn't care, but that's not an argument. He's basically saying "Yeah, I know I'm wrong, but I identify as a hypocrite."

[@laranadesign4764]

So true.

[@Angryalpaca1503]

Yeah

[@ereviscale3966]

What other argument is there? At least cite a questionable study or something. I don't think Tristan even cares about the suffering of other people, and doesn't view women as people either.

[@MdoubleHB...]

This video is just another distraction. It is meaningless. Just like the 3 people in this video.

[@MdoubleHB...]

Humans are frugivores and not omnivores. This is called species-specific diet. It is the most important thing to understand for humanity right now. Cooking destroys the food and most nutrients in it. This should be common knowledge by now. But the masses are still very ignorant and they are constantly distracted by nonsense. It is the reason, why we still live in the dark ages. To have paradise on Earth, humanity must adopt the species-specific diet. For more details: Douglas Graham, John Rose and Loren Lockman

[@lindz758]

Before I was Christian, I hunted with my dad but when I became a Christian my heart changed and i couldn't bring myself to hunt anymore. Thats just my personal testimony. Now I'm a seventh day adventist Christian and our denomination promotes a plant based diet which is strongly supported biblically, especially in the book of Daniel.

[@EternalEmperorofZakuul]

What about the 10 plagues of Egypt and Passover

[@durrr1007]

@@EternalEmperorofZakuulwhat about genesis

[@EternalEmperorofZakuul]

@@durrr1007 the great flood that killed all humans and animals alike

[@durrr1007]

@@EternalEmperorofZakuul At the beginning of Genesis, the creation of plants follows the need to feed Adam and Eve. Dominion is stewardship not entitlement to murder

[@EternalEmperorofZakuul]

@@durrr1007 didn't stop the Jews from committing barbaric animal sacrifice

[@JohnMoseley]

Still, it's nice to have Tristan admitting so openly that psychopathy is the de facto modus operandi of free market capitalism.

[@MdoubleHB...]

This video is just another distraction. It is meaningless. Just like the 3 people in this video.

[@ioio20490]

stopp, swayze likes capitalism

[@badge5575]

Well nah he said he cares more about humans so nah not anti social at all

[@JohnMoseley]

@@badge5575 See the pinned comment. He can _claim_ he cares about humans all he likes, but it doesn't prove anything.

[@susanwjoh0re735]

ahh you are one of those. move to north korea then.

[@allandm]

In any other debate 'my god says so' and 'i dont care' would never be accepted as a legit argument. Imagine if Tristan is debating someone on abortion and the other person says 'i don't care'. So that's it? He won the debate ?

[@kikiTHEalien]

Tate views human bodies as commodity. Why is it so hard to believs he views the bodies of animals the same way?

[@residentjess]

Human bodies? Male and female? Or does he only view female human bodies that way?

[@kikiTHEalien]

@@residentjess Both, of course.

[@maksim3417]

He literally explains why

[@ononono7016]

Cigars and steaks. The only sustenance a manly man baby needs

[@reallyshel]

Notice how healthy he is

[@Yo-Ah-Kim]

@@reallyshelhe is. Both Tate’s are in good form and look healthy. Can’t day that for all the vegan men out there.

[@SPY_Terminator]

Go hug a bear and see how it goes😂

[@goldenstryker6707]

Andrew Tate walks by some scumbag abusing a puppy and asks "Is that yours?" The creep replies "Yes it is." so Tate doesn't care and allows him to continue. That's the complete opposite of what you'd describe as manly or heroic.

[@kikiTHEalien]

This dude and his colleagues in the human trafficking prifession have no problem seeing human bodies as commodity, either, so he is consistent in his views, at least.

[@trenton227]

If the "abuser" had a knife in his hands torturing the puppy what tf is he supposed to do it's none of his business anyways.

[@goldenstryker6707]

@@trenton227 If the person has a weapon then that would be understandable to keep your distance but if it was just some punk kicking an amimal for a power trip I'd think most poeple would defend the amimal.

[@triptripp1873]

Joey is an amazing activist! Through his exposé he managed to take a huge slaughterhouse for pigs out of business! Please show him all your support so he can continue this fight for animal rights 💚

[@veman5409]

I get so upset when vegans don't use the garden of eden argument in a debate with Christians. According to the Bible God gave permission when it was nessacery and now that we are closer to not needing to, of course God would prefer a world closer to his original vision. "Garden of Eden"

[@Olivetree80]

Right, you gotta meet people where they are

[@lexaray5]

Yessss! This is how I got my parents to at least stop making rude comments to me about it 7 years ago.

[@Combative_Dissident]

Not Genesis 1:29?! What about 1:30? All the animals were also "vegan", so explain the origin of carnivorous animals. Taste pleasure? Have you also bought into the post-flood, muddy puddle necessity BS? After dropping a very low, animal/plant ratio diet, I read again the HB (x2), paying close attention to animal references & absolutely nothing supported "veganism". There are 1197 chapters which follow after Gen. 1. I understand why veganism is important to atheists but it's no substitute for faith in Christ Jesus. Identifying with hopeless animals is just that.. hopeless. - - - - - Luke 22:7,8 (KJV) '7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover [lamb/kid] must be killed. 8 And he [Jesus] sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.' - - - - - The passover of Exodus 12.

[@veman5409]

@Combative_Dissident Again, this was a time when animal products were necessary for most. Walk Jesus through a slaughter house today, and he goes home, plants a garden and takes his b12 supplement.

[@Combative_Dissident]

@@veman5409 'Walk Jesus through a slaughter house today, and he goes home..', demonstrates that you don't know Him. Have you read the Holy Bible?

[@tamarleahh.2150]

Why are we as a society giving any platforms to this family of human traffickers?

[@DTA707]

Why are we allowing you, who obviously knows nothing about the case to comment?

[@Peopleofthesun386]

@@DTA707 Calm down buddy. stop crying

[@MdoubleHB...]

This video is just another distraction. It is meaningless. Just like the 3 people in this video.

[@MdoubleHB...]

Humans are frugivores and not omnivores. This is called species-specific diet. It is the most important thing to understand for humanity right now. Cooking destroys the food and most nutrients in it. This should be common knowledge by now. But the masses are still very ignorant and they are constantly distracted by nonsense. It is the reason, why we still live in the dark ages. To have paradise on Earth, humanity must adopt the species-specific diet. For more details: Douglas Graham, John Rose and Loren Lockman

[@tamarleahh.2150]

@@DTA707 he's bragged about it. It's like a dude who molests children, brags about it and then gets offended when people call him a pedophile. What do you think a human trafficker is, lad? He just gaslighting people with conservative talking points

[@thrillho4209]

13:45 If we're above animals and God gave us dominion over them it seems a bit hypocritical to then say 'sharks and bears eat other animals so it's fine if we do'. If we're better than them then why would you point to an animal's behaviour (that they have no ability to rationalise, btw) to justify your own?

[@sweetness583]

He wants to be treated better than animals, but he doesn't want to act better. The hypocrisy is so pathetic.

[@filibbensaid1617]

ugh i'm so glad you said "you know he thinks beans are a little gay", i couldn't reduce this guy to a few words any better

[@MdoubleHB...]

This video is just another distraction. It is meaningless. Just like the 3 people in this video.

[@MdoubleHB...]

Humans are frugivores and not omnivores. This is called species-specific diet. It is the most important thing to understand for humanity right now. Cooking destroys the food and most nutrients in it. This should be common knowledge by now. But the masses are still very ignorant and they are constantly distracted by nonsense. It is the reason, why we still live in the dark ages. To have paradise on Earth, humanity must adopt the species-specific diet. For more details: Douglas Graham, John Rose and Loren Lockman

[@MdoubleHB...]

Imagine still eating animal products in 2023. Diseases and shortened life span guaranteed.

[@MdoubleHB...]

Cooked food caused and maintains the fall of mankind. Raw vegan nutrition is the salvation of humanity.

[@MdoubleHB...]

Imagine thinking there really was a pandemic.

[@carstenaltena]

Can't help but think "Tristan is trying really hard to be tough".

[@Elusive_Pete]

Why? Because he believes in what he says? Unlike all the vegans on Earth, Tristan is ACTUALLY tough.

[@carstenaltena]

@@Elusive_Pete Haha. Nah. It's clearly an act.

[@Elusive_Pete]

@@carstenaltena what's his act? Is he not enjoying his cigar? Is he lying about his position on the matter? Please inform us as to how you are such a genius of a character judge.

[@carstenaltena]

@@Elusive_Pete Oh please.😆Just look at the video and tell me all of this isn't all a big act. If you can't see it you're probably a fanboy who fell for his act. All I see is a childish troll 🤷‍♂

[@Elusive_Pete]

@@carstenaltena "just look at the video". Yeah I did. Are you inferring that Tristan is lying about what he's saying? What's your criteria for this "act" you speak of?

[@orirune3079]

WTF there's more than one Tate?? Are they budding off? Also it's so weird how he seems to think it's actually cool that he's smoking cigars the whole time...dude that's just gross

[@CG-fy9jz]

I used to smoke, it made me cringe seeing how he is hurting his body so blatantly. He clearly loves himself but not enough to be healthy.

[@JudyCZ]

I find that to be the least problematic thing about him. Sure, he's destroying his body but so what? As long as there's no other person involuntarily inhaling the sh*t with him, I don't see any problem. We all do harmful things to our bodies to some degree, that's our choice and our right.

[@orirune3079]

@@JudyCZ Well of course it's his right. It's just also gross.

[@96unicorns]

Vegan ex orthodox woman here - I started being vegan when I was very religious and orthodoxy was what made me give veganism a trail run. Before major religious holidays, you are encouraged to fast (obstain from animal products), most people nowadays either don't do it or just go veggie for a couple of days, but I strongly believed that I shoud during my teen years. This helped me learn what foods could have hidden whey and all the other things vegans learn at the start. When I first went vegan, my religious belief of avoiding harm and being kind to others were interwoven with being vegan since Orthodoxy encouraged me to try out veganism in the first place.

[@hannahmitchell87]

Sad thing is, Joey had a long street debate/conversation with a deeply religious Christian woman & showed a thorough knowledge of the Bible. He's getting a lot of flak for the Tate discussion so I don't want to pile on cause I couldn't have done better but he definitely held back. I hope that approach helped ingratiate him to the 1000s of Tate fans, rather than being perceived as an 'angry/preachy vegan'' but who knows

[@taylorfusher2997]

Also vegetables, fruits and non meat substances do not have B12 vitamin. Only meat has B12 vitamin. Did someone lie to me? I am mean I am not a expert but this is what many experts are saying. Also what nutrients does only meat has that vegetables, fruits and non-meat does not have?

[@hannahmitchell87]

@taylorfusher2997 I'm not sure if you meant to reply under my comment but many plant based foods are fortified with B12 & supplements are cheap & readily available. Hope this helps

[@MdoubleHB...]

This video is just another distraction. It is meaningless. Just like the 3 people in this video.

[@MdoubleHB...]

Humans are frugivores and not omnivores. This is called species-specific diet. It is the most important thing to understand for humanity right now. Cooking destroys the food and most nutrients in it. This should be common knowledge by now. But the masses are still very ignorant and they are constantly distracted by nonsense. It is the reason, why we still live in the dark ages. To have paradise on Earth, humanity must adopt the species-specific diet. For more details: Douglas Graham, John Rose and Loren Lockman

[@MdoubleHB...]

Imagine getting "vaccinated" for the convid plandemic.

[@wa6184]

I've never heard of him, and I'm not across the whole Tate drama but man this is one poor excuse for a man/human. Wow. Im surprised people are willing to have conversations with him.

[@taylorfusher2997]

Also vegetables, fruits and non meat substances do not have B12 vitamin. Only meat has B12 vitamin. Did someone lie to me? I am mean I am not a expert but this is what many experts are saying. Also what nutrients does only meat has that vegetables, fruits and non-meat does not have?

[@imhassane]

@@taylorfusher2997 stop lying to yourself, meat has B12 cause it was supplemented to them in the first place. So you're supplementing B12 indirectly. Does meat have Folate ? Fiber ? Vitamin C ? Omega 3 ? Vitamin E ?

[@silaswild6233]

​@@taylorfusher2997you're right

[@wa6184]

@@taylorfusher2997 I don't understand what point you're trying to make and how this relates to my comment lol

[@MdoubleHB...]

This video is just another distraction. It is meaningless. Just like the 3 people in this video.

[@ummmmmmmmmmmnmmmm]

I'm just imagining the smell inside that studio. I feel sorry for anyone working there breathing in all that smoke. It's hard for me take someone seriously when they base their entire personality off of the Ferengis from Star Trek. Edit: Wtf are the replies to my comment? I'm talking about Cigar smells and everyone down there is talking about nutrition. I don't care about your opinions on nutrition.

[@taylorfusher2997]

Also vegetables, fruits and non meat substances do not have B12 vitamin. Only meat has B12 vitamin. Did someone lie to me? I am mean I am not a expert but this is what many experts are saying. Also what nutrients does only meat has that vegetables, fruits and non-meat does not have?

[@MdoubleHB...]

Humans are frugivores and not omnivores. This is called species-specific diet. It is the most important thing to understand for humanity right now. Cooking destroys the food and most nutrients in it. This should be common knowledge by now. But the masses are still very ignorant and they are constantly distracted by nonsense. It is the reason, why we still live in the dark ages. To have paradise on Earth, humanity must adopt the species-specific diet. For more details: Douglas Graham, John Rose and Loren Lockman

[@ononono7016]

@@taylorfusher2997 Only some archaea and bacteria can synthesize vitamin B12. Meat contains it because we feed the animals B12 vitamin supplements. You can directly take the supplement instead with no downsides. Vitamin D is also given to the animals because many of them won't see the light of day

[@olivia4394]

Literally what I was thinking. Imagine smoking stinky cigars

[@pattheplanter]

@@MdoubleHB... Raw food contains many antitnutrient compounds and cannot be digested fully unless it is very well blended. Cabbage, kale, broccoli, etc. will destroy your thyroid hormones if you eat them raw in any quantity, causing serious hypothyroidism. Raw nuts contain things that destroy B vitamins. You will lose more nutrients by not cooking food, as you won't absorb them. The only vitamin that is damaged by cooking is B12, which is best taken in pills anyway. Cooked food is good for you and I advise you to step back from whichever deluded influencer is peddling this nonsense to you. The fact that you feel the need to copy and paste this everywhere is a sign of your missionary zeal, and I don't mean that in a good way.

[@zacalrayyis2607]

I just don't see what value can be gained from having a conversation about this with someone who's clearly a sociopath. The guy's an internet pimp, not an intellectual, how on earth are we supposed to expect him to understand why factory farming is wrong when he's being tried for human trafficking with his brother, literally locking up and commodifying human women for money. And you wanna talk to him about why animal exploitation is wrong?

[@SilkCrown]

I would never be exposed to these people and their views if not for this channel, so I appreciate this content!

[@MdoubleHB...]

This video is just another distraction. It is meaningless. Just like the 3 people in this video.

[@MdoubleHB...]

Humans are frugivores and not omnivores. This is called species-specific diet. It is the most important thing to understand for humanity right now. Cooking destroys the food and most nutrients in it. This should be common knowledge by now. But the masses are still very ignorant and they are constantly distracted by nonsense. It is the reason, why we still live in the dark ages. To have paradise on Earth, humanity must adopt the species-specific diet. For more details: Douglas Graham, John Rose and Loren Lockman

[@pattheplanter]

@@MdoubleHB... Raw food contains many antitnutrient compounds and cannot be digested fully unless it is very well blended. Cabbage, kale, broccoli, etc. will destroy your thyroid hormones if you eat them raw in any quantity, causing serious hypothyroidism. Raw nuts contain things that destroy B vitamins. You will lose more nutrients by not cooking food, as you won't absorb them. The only vitamin that is damaged by cooking is B12, which is best taken in pills anyway. Cooked food is good for you and I advise you to step back from whichever deluded influencer is peddling this nonsense to you. The fact that you feel the need to copy and paste this everywhere is a sign of your missionary zeal, and I don't mean that in a good way.

[@durrr1007]

@@MdoubleHB...congrats you’re insane

[@rickelmonoggin]

the point of the debate isn't to persuade Tristan; the point is to persuade some of his audience. Andrew and Tristan Tate's audience is full of young men looking for role models to look up to. I would hope that Joey is a much more inspiring role model than Tristan, who really offers nothing but facile macho posturing

[@keeganitreal]

250k and you have never heard of Joey carbstrong? That’s gotta be some kind of record. Great video!

[@kerry8461]

I never heard of him either! He seems great!

[@lexaray5]

​@kerry8461 meh, I'm not the biggest fan. Sometimes he's really good, sometimes he's over the top and spreads misinformation. He takes a very different approach than Swayze and while I'm happy that he can cater to a different audience, I feel like if you really like Swayze's no-nonsense, super factual and data driven style then you might not like Joey's style as much. He's kind of Mike the Vegan-ish, who I'm also not the biggest fan of. Like in a citing studies but not really understanding how they work kind of way, maybe? But that's just me!

[@lexaray5]

I was looking for this comment! Joey is one of the first online vegans I found so that was kind of crazy to hear.

[@MdoubleHB...]

This video is just another distraction. It is meaningless. Just like the 3 people in this video.

[@MdoubleHB...]

Humans are frugivores and not omnivores. This is called species-specific diet. It is the most important thing to understand for humanity right now. Cooking destroys the food and most nutrients in it. This should be common knowledge by now. But the masses are still very ignorant and they are constantly distracted by nonsense. It is the reason, why we still live in the dark ages. To have paradise on Earth, humanity must adopt the species-specific diet. For more details: Douglas Graham, John Rose and Loren Lockman

[@athey92]

As a Christian orthodox myself, we are actually vegans for most parts of the year. We are required to fast (not how the Muslims fast, but we basically eat vegan - NOT vegetarian - products) every Wednesday and Friday, 40 days before Christmas, 50 days before Easter, and about a month in summer. Monks and Saints as you mentioned are usually vegan and only eat fish and cheese (some only on specific days during the year). Also many saints used to mainly be vegan and they love nature and animals. Sooooo, I would say as a cypriot, our love for meat is mostly cultural. As Christians we are supposed to discipline ourselves and avoid meat, and diary products. Sooo yup..

[@Combative_Dissident]

Matthew 15:11-20 Romans 14:1-3 Luke 22:7,8 Pls provide HB references to support your no meat or dairy claims.

[@LuksandraStarkov]

I’m a vegetarian Muslim :) and my sister is vegan. I don’t think factory farming is halal no matter what prayer is said over the animal. Suffering begins far before the actual act of slaughter. A lot of the ritualistic slaughter of animals during Eid is more of a cultural practice than a religious one, and if you want to keep the spirit of generosity up you can certainly cook up a plant based meal to give out to the community instead of celebrating with cruelty.

[@meshari-yy9gp]

What!!! Eid slaughter is cultural? Have you ever read the Quran and Sunnah ?

[@mikaeelbadat575]

One of the 5 pillars of Islam is hajj (pilgrimage) and to complete hajj you HAVE TO slaughter an animal. Islam does not promote or encourage veganism at all. Period.

[@wix6893]

i think it has more to do with your relationship w that human or non-human animal rather than whether a human has more intrinsic value than a non-human animal… i’d save my dog over a stranger, i just would.

[@ThatDayDreamer_]

I enjoyed your commentary on this debate so ty but I do have an off topic comment to add: a lot of these macho men who like to suck on a cigar is so funny to me 😆😆 the irony and the limp wrist.... oh honey 😆

[@anotherthez7598]

I said it then and there, Tristan is 2 beers away from being Dahmer! Ok, Tristan is a weak little man.

[@Bananchy]

I'm not even a believer (grew up in Orthodox Christian home/country) and this urked me a lot. In most monasteries, monks and nuns are vegetarian or vegan. (as you mentioned in the video) Furthermore, according to the calendar, Christians are supposed to fast almost 200 days a year. Which means abstaining from animals and animal products. (Yes, there is a difference between a water fast and an oil fast, since on oil fast fish is allowed, but still.. 200 days!) I never understood people who preach something about the Bible or christianity, but don't pratice the religion and its ways (e.g. compassion).

[@acewingate6993]

So strange he thinks he gets a pass from the Bible when the Bible says if a Christian feels the personal conviction to be a vegetarian, then you should respect their decision

[@taylorfusher2997]

Also vegetables, fruits and non meat substances do not have B12 vitamin. Only meat has B12 vitamin. Did someone lie to me? I am mean I am not a expert but this is what many experts are saying. Also what nutrients does only meat has that vegetables, fruits and non-meat does not have?

[@sunsundks3891]

​@@taylorfusher2997Animals that are eaten often have b12 injected in them today

[@theirishrepublican1739]

But yet the bible support cannibalism, or am I getting the wrong message from eating the body of Christ and drink the blood of Christ, that line alone doesn't sound too vegan

[@LocaChoca]

This is a great point. Apostle Paul talks about this idea in 1 Corinthians 8, in particular verses 6-9. He's talking about foods being offered to idols being a stumbling block to some newer converts, but the idea applies here. If what you were doing is offensive to your brother or sister in Christ, don't throw it in their face, even if you are allowed to do the thing. It shows that you love the person more than your freedom, which is more Christ like.

[@Combative_Dissident]

According to the NT, food choices are entirely personal.👍🙏Romans 14:1-3 (KJV) '1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations 2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.'

[@maxinepagnotti7014]

Hi Swayze-would love to hear your thoughts on Bryan Johnson’s anti aging diet and lifestyle.

[@Mamaslittleblog]

“I’m not familiar with either” Joey is one of the most viral vegans ever and Tristan Tate has been every where in the legacy media for 2 years with Andrew Tate being the most googled man on the planet… I don’t believe that someone who researches both veganism and current affairs for their content could possibly not have heard of either. Was the point of saying this to start with non bias? Either way I found it weird.

[@rep-vile]

This video just seems overly uncritical when Swayze keeps harping on and inserting that he thinks "being vegan is gay, not manly, him being alpha male", which I believe he has not said during this debate, if he did she would've shown it. If anything, he said the opposite and was very reasonable about understanding veganism for what it is and why he's not. Literally Joey was the first to bring up "masculinity and manly" after 1 hour of talk, which Tristan quickly dismissed and said "No, I don't believe that. I'm not one of these guys who says 'oh you have to eat meat to be a man.' To be a man you have to live by your own convictions" then Joey brought it up a 2nd time then Tristan said "I have said the exact opposite" When somebody says "It would be preferable if it was painless" the logical assumption goes down to the lesser point "It's fine if it's painful". Which in the debate was literally after Joey told him about pigs getting gassed and Tristan clearly answered "No, no, I know, I actually don't, I don't care at all, I think that there's no kind way of killing something..." which he indicated several times. But Swayze made the assumption go up to "It SHOULD be painless" which is flat out incorrect, and horribly bad faith. Swayze kept calling him a coward when he's clearly and honestly presenting his point of view even when bringing up dogs. I believe Swayze already has an ultimatum: If you're not vegan, you're just lying to yourself even if you're being consistent. And trying to discredit his words so she feels justified to insert her own. If anything, that fits "cowardly".

[@deletedskagg]

When listening to Tristan. I can only think one thing. He's the kid at school who just wants confrontation. He has no other way of garnering attention from his peers. His big brother made his mark using the same techniques and now Tristan is following in his footsteps. Bullies run in families.

[@Spatzenzunge]

Phew, I don't know how you got through that whole 'debate'. I couldn't. Not just because of the technical issues. Kudos.

[@mancillado]

"You know he thinks beans are a little gay" I died dead

[@alphaomega7433]

Typical Vegan argument… I’m right because I say I’m right and I’m moral because I say I’m moral🙄

[@therealjasonbueno]

Lack of biblical knowledge on his part. Proverbs 12:10 says, “The righteous care for the needs of their animals, but the kindest acts of the wicked are cruel.” Kindness to animals is godly.

[@citruslimonia]

The Tates are so annoying, no one can have a proper debate with them, they just spill whatever comes from their minds that they think will make them look "manly" and "cool", can't take them seriously lol

[@popinontoast]

brilliant video UV! Joey Carbstrong is my favourite activist and the person that made me vegan years ago

[@nicolesapphire3696]

I think it would be fair to say that Tristan Tate doesn’t have a lot of empathy for animals or humans and could verge on being a sociopath because of the evidence of his actions in recent times, you can’t completely set aside these actions as they are an indication of his ability to show empathy and he has shown that he is ok with causing suffering.

[@MdoubleHB...]

Imagine still eating animal products in 2023. Diseases and shortened life span guaranteed.

[@MdoubleHB...]

Cooked food caused and maintains the fall of mankind. Raw vegan nutrition is the salvation of humanity.

[@pattheplanter]

@@MdoubleHB... Raw food contains many antitnutrient compounds and cannot be digested fully unless it is very well blended. Cabbage, kale, broccoli, etc. will destroy your thyroid hormones if you eat them raw in any quantity, causing serious hypothyroidism. Raw nuts contain things that destroy B vitamins. You will lose more nutrients by not cooking food, as you won't absorb them. The only vitamin that is damaged by cooking is B12, which is best taken in pills anyway. Cooked food is good for you and I advise you to step back from whichever deluded influencer is peddling this nonsense to you. The fact that you feel the need to copy and paste this everywhere is a sign of your missionary zeal, and I don't mean that in a good way.

[@mairzydoats4879]

It's always particularly weird when Christians deflect to modeling their behavior after animal behavior, specifically predators. What Would Sharks Do?

[@spandel100]

Tristan,the very epitome of narcissism and ignorance.Watching him with that smoking habit on a live channel just cements that for me.

[@meaton3805]

I couldn't get over him talking about piranhas over and over. There are some animals that kill each other, Tristan. I would go out on a limb and say a large portion of the animal kingdom does so. Also, if you are going to compare humans to predatory animals, why don't you talk about the angler fish or the praying mantis or the little red kaluta or the black widow spider, etc.? Maybe women should start offing men after mating... /s

[@JasonNoto]

Genesis 1:29-31 29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground-everything that has the breath of life in it-I give every green plant for food.” And it was so. 31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.." Revelations 22:2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. Dominion means protectorate

[@crazyscientist9489]

Raised in an orthodox Christian society here. Actually during orthodox fasting (40 days Easter, 15 days in August, 25 days in December, every Wednesday and Friday) we are supposed to not consume animal products. This is why there is a plethora of vegan traditional dishes in the Balkans. Younger generations do not follow this but the church still supports this. I am an atheist but I believe the cultural traditions of fasting and Mediterranean dieting was essential when I transitioned as a vegetarian initially. It was relatively easy.

[@lauratanln]

Hope I can try these vegan dishes if I visit the Balkans.

[@TheSkinnyZ]

Also, how come Tristan didn’t follow his big bro Andrew into Islam? Are they trying to cover more ground with him identifying as orthodox?

[@Hikari7775]

You're a vegan KZbinr and you weren't familiar with Joey Carbstrong before this??? 😲😲

[@bakedvegan6379]

Vegan Christian here! I do not like that he used the Bible to justify animal cruelty, which is not the point of Genesis… makes me sad that some people justify cruelty. I like Romans 14 1-23 for this because it reminds me to focus on peace, avoid disputes and because it mentions not being a stumbling block to those who only eat vegetables because of meat being sacrificed to idols. I know not everyone will agree on my vegan lifestyle or see things my way, vice versa.

[@Combative_Dissident]

Romans 14:1-3 states that, according to Paul, God is okay with both "vegans" & "non-vegans". I'm a Christian within the latter camp & my conscience is entirely clear.

[@bakedvegan6379]

@@Combative_Dissident exactly! that’s what I was saying lol.

[@Combative_Dissident]

@@bakedvegan6379 👍God says "You do you!" but veganism demands otherwise. Since becoming aware of V, I've looked for it, within the HB, & it's nowhere to be found.

[@Combative_Dissident]

@@homie3461 The "You do you!" message of Romans 14:1-3 is hardly 'dictating diet'.. In fact, there's nothing whatsoever, within the NT, which suggests that diet is relevant to salvation. Matt 15:11 'Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.'

[@Combative_Dissident]

@@homie3461 Firstly, what fascinates me, is that if the HB is considered to be fictional, why do vegans expend any energy claiming that such a fairy tale supports their cause?.. because too many folk consider the HB not to be a fairy tale.. answering my own question. The second question is for you to answer. You claim that 'the salvation of animals is real and easy to achieve'. Does such a claim extend to every, global community?

[@Ara24_td]

6:19 This clip is taken out of context. She makes it seem like Tristan doesn't care if you torture a dog in front of him, he says "if it's your dog and your factory and you want to eat it then I don't care" but she cut the clip right before he says if you try to torture the dog or any other animal for the sake of some twisted enjoyment, then he does have a problem with that.

[@victorpromiseviz]

Ma, the Bible by Gods prescription says we can eat meat and Jesus ate fish. The animals most likely felt pain during the killing process and in fact jewish sacrifices were instructed by God for a time. fullstop

[@benjaminpaulstickney1891]

Fantastic analysis, I agree that the underlying issue is Tristan’s belief in Christianity, or st least his belief that it supports meat eating. It’s funny that you mentioned Matt Dillahunty at the end because as soon as I finished watching the debate, I started searching for an atheism debate between Matt and Tristan, this I really want to see.

[@grimfact]

In one way, I think the 'religion' argument and the 'I don't care' argument go hand in hand. If the person did actually care about unnecessary animal suffering/exploitation, they wouldn't use religion as a reason to justify it.

[@zarelli7831]

The first debate I saw Joey lose

[@MarcelaKPreininger]

Poor Joey wasn't prepared. The PETA lambs website has dozens and dozens of Biblical quotes and passages from both the Old and New Testaments that support veganism.

[@Hope00Love]

I'm not super familiar with Tristan, but he seems to like to be controversial. I'm not sure he truly believes what he's saying here. He might just be saying what he thinks will fit best with his image or what will get the most views. I'm also surprised you didn't already know Joey Carbstrong! Would love to see your reaction to/analysis of more of his videos. Some might find him a little too "extreme" or "in your face". But I truly admire him for dedicating his life to fighting for the animals.

[@kin.9133]

I'll stumble upon a Tate Brothers clip, chuckle and dismiss it because "nobody could possibly take this seriously", then check myself when I remember the size of their audience...

[@Shane-zl9ry]

I'll bet he eats shrimp... and you can't eat that in the Bible. 😏

[@lexaray5]

I'm not defending Christianity here, but the Bible reneges on this. There are multiple passages in the New Testament that claim that all food is randomly clean now. You can make an argument about what that says about the infallibility of the Bible if you want, but Christians are just going to fall back on the verses saying they can eat anything they want if you bring that up.

[@RickyVis]

The Halakah or law of the Jews only applies to the Jews and Jewish followers of Christ, not the gentile followers of Christ. The only kosher laws that apply to christians are to not eat food sacrificed to an idol, blood and the meat of strangled animals.

[@Shane-zl9ry]

@@RickyVis Then Christians should be able to disregard the whole old testament... since it all contradicts itself so much.

[@RickyVis]

@@Shane-zl9ry No you need to understand the old testament in order to understand the new testament. But yes only the rules of the new testament apply to gentile christians.

[@theresamnsota3925]

Many Seventh Day Adventists are vegetarian or vegan. In fact, Loma Linda, CA which has a large Seventh Day population, has been classified as one of the world’s Blue Zones.

[@RafaelBanks69]

the argument " i don't care" is a perfectly valid argument. the issue with vegans is that you all forget that morality and ethics are completely subjective. some people just don't care about chickens or cow. Quite frankly we value our steak more than the life of a random cow in some random farm somewhere, that's our prerogative, leave us the fuck alone.

[@chubbatheBOSS]

“I don’t care” is an ego defense mechanism against love/God, because when you take this position it’s like putting up a brick wall of ego around your own heart, like a spoiled child folding its arms and saying “I don’t care” just for the sake of rebelling and winning the argument and not wanting to listen. Your heart says otherwise and one day love will win you over. Your ego cannot run the show forever

[@Markusctfldl]

It's not cowardly to point out where the impassable disagreement lies. Christians do not view animals as having moral value, only utility value, because we believe we are a fundamentally different kind of thing. Our ethics are not based on the chemical process of pain or suffering to determine value.

[@Hiiiiiiiiieeee]

As soon as somebody starts using the Bible as an excuse for pretty much anything, I immediately lose all respect for them. Now, I had already zero respect for Tristan, because I’m sure the apple doesn’t fall far from the Andrew Tate family lineage. But using “Jod”, and yes, I misspell God purposely, as an excuse for anything in 2023 just makes you sound ignorant and unhinged. Believe in your sky daddy or spaghetti monster in the sky, but leave the rest of us out it.

[@ohpls]

Let people be

[@fillupthesky]

funny thing - Tristan’s brother has a bunch of stray dogs that he’s rescued. this was really interesting to dissect.

[@Jamielynn7336]

It's pretty wild to pretend like you don't know who Joey Carbstrong is 👀

[@kikiTHEalien]

I've never heard of him, either

[@sunsundks3891]

​@@kikiTHEaliensame

[@Crone-fu6or]

IKR?... From those low fat n raw banana riding days.

[@dylanf490]

"But these Christians like Tate are choosing to treat animals in this way, they are choosing to have dominiom over them"... ummm... yes... because we do have dominion over them and we do want to treat them as food.

[@Shane-zl9ry]

Christians even thought potatoes were ungodly when they were first brought to Europe. 🤣

[@Smachfest]

Well, 'realistically' everything is ungodly. If you have threepence worth of sense. 😂

[@Hiiiiiiiiieeee]

Religion has been one of the number one detriment to human society since the beginning of time. You have to truly wonder how much further along we might be as a civilization if not for the hundreds and hundreds and thousands of years of being held back by a belief system that makes absolutely no sense with our modern brains. I always find it funny when people laugh at the old Greek and Roman gods as if it’s so weird that they believed in a God for every little specific thing. Most of us that are atheist think you are just as goofy and naïve for believing in one, god that controls are created every little thing.

[@TuftyVFTA]

I'm so sick of so many people conflating vegetarianism and veganism. Vegetarianism is a diet. Vegetarians in general do not care about the exploitation, abuse and murder of animals or they would be *vegan*. Veganism is NOT a diet. Its a way of life that seeks to abolish *all* needless exploitation, abuse, commodification and murder of other sentient beings. Vegetarians are quite happy to be paired with vegans as they don't understand what veganism is! The two things are not comparable! I just lost one vegetarian friend - who is now an 'acquaintance' because of this - because when we talked about it, they actually said the sentence: "I couldn't be vegan, I like cheese too much, and I'm actually not too worried about some animals suffering for my taste pleasure" At least they were honest! I would no more sit at a table & eat a meal with vegetarians than I wold with meat eaters, both of those groups have no respect for other sentient lives.

[@EricaAnneInSac]

I knew a woman who was raised 7th Day Adventist, she’s a militant carnist now because she acociates vegetarianism with religious oppression.

[@Vegannan]

Joey is an amazing human being….. Tristan however is hardly human at all.

[@MdoubleHB...]

Imagine still eating animal products in 2023. Diseases and shortened life span guaranteed.

[@MdoubleHB...]

Cooked food caused and maintains the fall of mankind. Raw vegan nutrition is the salvation of humanity.

[@badge5575]

Search the tate foundation and how much they donate to ukraine and Palestine

[@badge5575]

​@@MdoubleHB...my grandfather is 80 years old and he eats lean cuts of meat everyday

[@TheSkinnyZ]

16:29 when you say you care about humans, you actually mean you care about men, correct?

[@PaulLebow]

It was a chilling discussion and representative of a sociopathic mindset that plagues the world.

[@Talkathon408]

I'm a Christian but very secular, try to be vegan and get very annoyed when Christians argue against evolution. It's interesting what you said about cruelty to animals and the need for food because atheists may not like animal suffering but the reality of evolution is animal suffering. It doesn't mean we should be cruel to them, I'm just saying, it's a reality of the world that I think vegans struggle to come to terms with. We are literally standing on the shoulders of billions of dead animals. I'm not sure if it would help to acknowledge this to people like Tristan, it might help placate him because it is the truth. A major part of Christianity is acknowledging the evil in our hearts and it's not something we should glorify (like killing animals and making them suffer).

[@jillianw6284]

Vegan Christian here...Veganism is what makes sense for the way we optimally operate. In the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve were called upon to take care of the animals. NEVER eat them. They were never intended to be eaten until after the flood. Also, Jesus is compassionate for all living things. What better way to show that than veganism?

[@dylanf490]

Yes Christians are "allowed" to be vegans... they can choose to eat plant based food. But they are also "allowed" to have a carnivore diet ?? But that is up to the individual ?? So there's nothing morally wrong to have a carnivore diet for example.

[@EthicalAthiest]

Saying not familiar with joey carbstrong. .. Is height of egoism

[@dylanf490]

Where in the Bible does it say that humans have dominion over animals ??? Literally Genesis 1:26-31 (the first book of the Bible). "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." Dominion: to have sovereignty or control over something.

[@Carnemexada]

How is intentionally killing unnumbered wild animals to protect crops consistent with veganism?

[@HappilyVeganSince]

Thanks, an interesting video, valid points well tackled I thought. I'm surprised you were unaware of Joey Carbstrong, I've been watching his videos for a long time they come in my news feed on facebook. He's quite active about animal suffering, prolific on social media. I guess it's a lot to do with the way these things work, which ads, videos etc. come up on an individual's screen. There must be many very well known KZbinrs, wirh a large following, who are unknown to me: I come across some in response videos of those I watch regularly. Well thanks again, I liked the video.

[@lauratanln]

Same here

[@laranadesign4764]

@11:30 and add his use of nicotine as a coping mechanism during this heavy conversion. I swear he started smoking like chimney at this point. 😂

[@emmaponymous]

Tristan giving everyone an example of "spiritual bypassing"-- Swayze nailed it with "cowardly".

[@K4Kale]

My biggest concern is that he says "his christian background", but is he a Christian. Clean and unclean meats are mentioned in scriptures.

[@AI-ch3if]

That pimp is as much a Christian as Rawvanna is a vegan.

[@jerielalvarez4492]

This woman is debating herself. Her biased logic hurts my brain. She just wanted to attack tristan because her feelings are hurt by his opinion.

[@shelby3174]

Not sure you watched the video my dude

[@jerielalvarez4492]

@@shelby3174Then why comment on something you're not sure about?

[@tiroonaka479]

@@jerielalvarez4492 Being hurt by the words of a sociopath is perfectly valid

[@jerielalvarez4492]

@@tiroonaka479 I'll take a Sociopath over a modern feminist anyday.

[@residentjess]

@@jerielalvarez4492what does veganism have to do with feminism?

[@BallCant]

Joey really dropped the ball on this one.

[@langreeves6419]

I am a vegan Christian. I sometimes get negative responses from other Christians, but i might even get more negative responses from other vegans.

[@LiveMercifully]

Watching this debate is extremely frustrating for me, as a vegan Christian. I love Joey, and I think he is an amazing vegan influencer. However, in this particular case, it would've been so much better if an actual Christian who understands God's perfect will and who is vegan because of that, debated this guy....because this Tristan guy couldn't be more wrong if he tried in some of the things he said, like bringing up being made in God's image as a reason to disregard animals. The exact opposite is true! Being made in God's image means LOVING and caring about God's beloved animals that HE created to live with us in peace and harmony. Being made in God's image means being a selfless, kind and *_just_* steward of the animals and the earth.... not a selfish, callous, self-serving tyrant. Sigh.

[@ArmyKill0]

look at all these vegans mad in the comments

[@hesperio9]

Tristan does not have his sh*t together, obviously. He falls into endless inconsistencies.

[@blueredingreen]

I was gonna say Tristan's "I care about humans, God cares about humans, animals are not humans" argument could also be made by someone who cares about some races and not others (and, say, human slavery). I can definitely see someone like Tristan having made pro-slavery arguments back in the day. But then I realised the latter could potentially be a stronger argument than his argument, if you're basing that on the Bible. Like, sure, there is some animal sacrifice blood magic in the Bible, but it also very explicitly approves of slavery and people are commanded to wipe out other nations. It's extremely inconsistent for even someone who's very conservative in the modern day to use the Bible as any sort of moral authority. You need a heavy dose of interpretation to get to your preferred conclusion, or anything society would classify as moral behaviour, at which point "what the Bible says" is not based on much more than your own personal feelings and reasoning.

[@boojoun]

i have a lot more respect towards people who bluntly and honestly say they don't care about animals unlike some ex-vegans who say that the universe called them and told them to eat animals, or that they wanted to "expand" and "i am on a journey" - when it is obvious that their journey took them to a place where they cared less about animals or more about other things. so he might be not that great of a person, but at least he is honest. also these kind of conversations never get anywhere. two opposite polars.

[@lauratanln]

These conversations can still continue to the point that people who do not care about animal abuse to at least Acknowledge that they are supporting the abuse. I will argue with those who hide behind God or claim plants feel pain, until they find some pathetic excuses to escape from questions.

[@paulabukhalil3880]

I've encountered this "dominion" argument from the Christians around me as well.

[@frank4pickerson]

Great exploration as I felt it wasn't a debate initially but now seems so.

[@TheSkinnyZ]

6:15 we literally can’t tho?! Just because you and your bros are fed, doesn’t mean everyone is.

[@GameplaymetJob]

Great video! Unfortunately Tristan does not care. 9:40 You said vegans don't think animals and humans are equal. And if you think that you are not, because your actions say otherwise. However I do, I think animals and humans are both equally worthy or both equally worthless (If that makes sense). Yes, maybe I do more for humans subconscious than for other animals, but that is just because it is my species and I'm conditioned to do so.. Every species does more for their own species. Nevertheless, I don't think a human is inherently more worthy than another animal. Even if humans are more sentient than other animals. They are both sentient and that is what matters for me. For example, I love birds. I dislike dogs. But I don't think birds are worth more than dogs, because of that. If a human and a brown bear threatened me and I had to pick one to fight, I'd choose the human. I have a higher chance of survivial by picking the human. So being human in itself doesn't matter to me.

[@johnwolf7073]

3:55 as a orthodox christian please dont tell lies about my religion. dont talk about my religion. just because you found some random people on internet, that does not mean this is our religion.

[@ummnothanks...666]

There are loads of orthodox Christians in the comments agreeing with her. Why don't you tell them that they're wrong??

[@MdoubleHB...]

Imagine still eating animal products in 2023. Diseases and shortened life span guaranteed.

[@MdoubleHB...]

Cooked food caused and maintains the fall of mankind. Raw vegan nutrition is the salvation of humanity.

[@AI-ch3if]

This woman called a Tate brother a Christian, even though he is a pimp and therefore no Christian. Now, if some internet personality openly ate fish, yet referred to himself as a "vegan," she would be all "You were never vegan!"

[@jn-fd6iw]

He isnt "cowardly" he just wanted to have a discussion about a topic that he said at the beginning of the video he had no opinion on.

[@jpaganmusic]

Tristan did great holding his position I am a vegetarian and totally understand why he would think his way.. not my preference but hey have at it..

[@graham2409]

I was so disappointed when I realized Matt Dillahunty's stance on veganism. I enjoyed watching a lot of his atheist debates, and then to see his cognitive dissonance on this topic...

[@TranceHeed]

Saying you haven’t heard of Joey is nonsense. There’s no way you’ve been using KZbin for years and haven’t came across him.

[@pattheplanter]

I have been using youtube as long as youtube has existed and I have never heard of or seen anything about Joey Carbstrong. Edited to add : I have been vegan for over 40 years. The internet is a big place with many people in it.

[@AI-ch3if]

I looked up this Tristan Tate character, and from what I see, he's no Christian, despite what he claims. No wh*r*monger is a Christian. If someone called themselves a vegan but openly ate fish, would you still call them a "vegan" because they said so? I doubt it. If you have any sense of objectivity, you should change the title. As for your insulting comments toward Christianity, I will inform you that your aspiration of moral superiority through not eating animals puts you in the same box as the Pharisees, who trusted in themselves to obtain righteousness. There is nothing morally wrong with being a vegan, but there certainly is with thinking that not eating animals is all it takes to make you righteous and if one does eat animals, they are vile. It doesn't work that way. Without Jesus' blood covering your sins, you will never be righteous, no matter what you eat.

[@chimp09]

"but there certainly is with thinking that not eating animals is all it takes to make you righteous and if one does eat animals" literally no human believes this. Complete strawman. "Without Jesus' blood covering your sins, you will never be righteous, no matter what you eat" Why should I care about being righteous by your definition? I care about making the world a better place and about reducing the amount of suffering done to sentient beings. What you think about a specific religion and how that affects me being "righteous", is really of no concern to me or anyone who doesn't follow your religion.

[@AI-ch3if]

@@chimp09"literally no human believes this. Complete strawman." You can't speak for all the militant, religious vegans I've watched, who have made their diet into a religion and the consumption of animals a sin. "I care about making the world a better place and about reducing the amount of suffering done to sentient beings." No doubt you can convince a number of people to stop eating animals. That said, what is your plan to stop cats tormenting mice? Lions from mauling zebras?

[@mikewazowski489]

Dude you are bang on regarding Tate as a Christian pretender, and the descent of veganism into a religion in its own right