How to Fall a Back-leaning Tree Part 1

[@bindoinit4972]

This is an A+ video for beginners all the way to a professional reminder.. Thank you, I’m doing a group by our power lines as we speak.. Remember you are never too old or experienced to learn something if you don’t let your pride get in the way

[@cat5dookie1]

I have felled enough trees now that I know there are many variables to taking down a tree safely AND have it fall where you want it to. No one knows everything. There are general rules to follow and you have to allow for changes. I found your videos had alot of value in that you showed all the things that you should thinking about, not just the basics.

[@murphy4trees]

Glad someone is paying attention... It's actually amazing just how bad the institutional teachings are for tree cutting techniques

[@GhostScout42]

thanks daniel. i dont have the luxury of having a mentor. so these videos are life saving.

[@murphy4trees]

Happy to help!

[@Skilled4dathrill39]

Hey @GhostScout42 I'm assuming you might have been in Boy Scouts? Was it Troop 42? Novato?

[@tyhickman7297]

Very few are willing to show things that go wrong in this line of work. Appreciate your honest take on the good and the bad of pulling over ‘leaners.’ Great video.

[@michaelsullivan155]

I've seen about a dozen you tubes on this topic and this by far is the most comprehensive of them all. Your clients are very lucky to have you do their work

[@Acein3055]

This is best video I found on how and where to cut on the tree. The other videos I saw were useless because they did not show how and where to cut. They only showed the tree falling from a distance which was a waste of time for the maker of the video and the viewer.

[@RealJuanCastaneda]

Now I'm deciding between becoming a local tree chopper, or local woodworker. This video is so straightforward, honest, and helpful that I'm considering charging for/practicing with small trees just to be able to cut down a 80 foot trees that's leaning towards my house, and cracking! Thank you so much for the video!

[@davidjesushernandez9010]

just want to say we appreciate the proven knowledge . this has got to be the best most complete in accuracy of all videos on youtube and Google period. I own and operate Dave the tree guy tree care in Washington state . and this kind of information is priceless. thank u

[@not_a_cleverman4051]

I've been searching for a clear explanation for an hour. This video is the BEST breakdown and instruction I've found. Thank you!

[@murphy4trees]

Glad it was helpful!

[@markd9105]

Great video. Most people don't realize how much there is to felling a tree especially when you're going against the lean. I've cut down several trees on my property and its still a learning process for me. I'm getting ready to cut down one closer to my house than i like but it's not that big and no lean so it should be easy to pull away with a vehicle.

[@johnkomosa4089]

I need to watch this video again....and again. Thank you so much for the time invested into this fine video, that back lean that broke at the ground really something, high forces. . Thank you Sir. Hello from Alaska

[@mickyp9517]

Very interesting, professional, no-nonsense presentation. Thank you!

[@stevescabin5441]

Thanks for the tips Dan! I have to cut down probably 6-10 trees by my power lines this week. I have my rope, a come-a-long and my truck with a winch! I will use two lines on each tree like you said. Wish me luck! They are much smaller trees than the ones you worked on here.

[@murphy4trees]

I'm sure that'll work. Power is good and high lines make it better.

[@zscottterrell3750]

I liked your video very much! It’s good to see someone humble enough to show not only the successful pullovers but the near misses as well. The fact that you took the time to explain why trees react the way they do is insightful and people can learn a lot from this video if they listen. Species dependent is so very true!! Thank you and well done!

[@murphy4trees]

Glad it was helpful!

[@RobertJl9516]

I have a leaner and found this great video that gives many examples and pull scenarios. Thankyou, I now have the information to remove this tree safely and confidently.

[@ronburke]

I ve been climbin and cuttin 25yrs now done lots of this stuff, actually pulled a large cedar top with sidelean in the wind yesterday. Im confident in my ability but its always sketchy sometimes to the point of just standin there for a few just to be thankful it worked! Nice work good good info, We appreciate your time and effort to show how you make it happen.

[@hathawaydj1]

I'll add my thanks. Clear and careful instructions and you're not afraid to show your mistakes. Love the little graphics you included.

[@Skilled4dathrill39]

very grateful for your instructional video. I immediately felt confident and decided this is the video I need to watch. I own 21 acres of forest near Tahoe National forest and I have a decent 34" base diameter live oak that is leaning 12 over a livestock fence and a property road at the 40' height, and is 4 feet away from the fence. Meaning it has a slight lean at the base and as the tree gets taller the lean worsens dramatically. Normally this wouldn't be an issue, but the tree is dying, or infected with a bacteria and the oak is killing off its limbs to try to get the infection to stop, but as experienced arborists know that is not likely to be a success. Ultimately, with large widow makers dangling +30-40' up causing a hazard for people, property, and livestock means tree has to be removed. This is the largest and farthest leaner I've yet to cut so naturally I'm pausing to make sure I take the correct steps to ensure it's safe, falls where I want it to, and takes out any guessing and/or nervous tension I have so that I can be confident and learn something new the right way the first Time.

[@robertowen1648]

Incredible detail you've gone into in how to safely deal with and approach back leaners. You made it visually clear to understand and better knowing how to apply these principles. Thanks so much.

[@nevin3123]

just found your pine top jumping over the hedge video from 2011. glad to see you are still producing in 2021.

[@murphy4trees]

Yes I am! I started making this one in 2009

[@djdnauk1977]

this seems like very professional useable safe advice, thank you!

[@murphy4trees]

Ya.. i miss that video editor

[@leebenson4874]

25 yrs. in, 37 backers, 36 successful, only had one go bad same as you, new operator!!

[@mr.dr.k3148]

I'm not in this line of work, but it's very interesting to learn and see a Pro in-action. Learned alot from your videos, do's and most importantly-dont's. Great job! Thank you for your time in producing these. Stay safe out there.

[@paulg444]

Ive done this a few times, I would only add that I like to use 8k lb lines, much stronger than is minimally necessary. Secondly I like to tie the line above the center of mass of the tree, but not way up there , I want to be tied to the trunk where I know I have big beef. .. Secondly I pull at 180 degrees from the lean, but I like to fall the tree some times 90 degrees from the lean as necessary to avoid the obstacle and Ill add a second line in the direction of the fall. So Im tensioning two lines giving me a net tension vector in the 90 to 180 degree direction

[@murphy4trees]

If you are falling a tree 90 degrees to the lean then it's not backleaner, it's a side leaner. IN that case the line that is anchored 180 degrees to the lean would be called a right angle retainer line. That's a very effective strategy which I posted a video about in 2009 or 2010. Those true blue lines are rated at 7400 lbs. and usually the higher the pull line trhe better. Maybe not in something dead and rotting but in the majority of cases 2/3 the height or higher significantly improves your leverage with little chance of splitting out.... If you don't feel good about putting that much pull in the top, then set another line lower in the tree and pull on both.

[@robertmeyer4591]

How does a180 man pull a tree over with 2000lbs of force, and 30 Tons of Torque by using a very long rope secured to the tree, and anchored to a 2nd tree? Using wedges and a 180lb pull a back leaning tree can fall in the opposite direction easily and safely. As the angle of the rope increases the force decreases however the advantage is that if the pull is continuous then the continuous force will help to ensure that the tree falls in the desired location. I doubt this scientific method is OSHA approved. Rope A needs to be much longer than the height of leaning tree for fairly obvious reasons. 🙂 I would say that this energy is more than enough to break the holding wood at the stump and bring the leaning tree into the opposite direction of the lean. Well, OK I dropped the tree in my yard before I did the math here based on the principles of physics and mathematics. But I drew up a diagram i can attached as a photo if interested. @@murphy4trees

[@Reno-pz3kt]

You know your stuff,I learned a lot just by watching this video....thanks a million. SUBSCRIBED.

[@ericjane747]

Very informative and professional as usual.

[@orweyztungchiu5819]

Never been game enough to drop aback leaner but after watching this video, I understand the principles behind a successful fall. Many thanks guys!

[@murphy4trees]

Glad it helped!

[@rhyslovett5164]

monographie in Australia great to watch your video and all your knowledge

[@desmondmcguinness4668]

im doing one for the first time next week watched this for some tips will film it for you wish me luck x

[@Billster1955]

Thanks for taking time to share your knowledge. I like the fact the you shared some jobs that didn't go perfectly.

[@murphy4trees]

best way to learn in this business is from your mistakes.. even if nothing got damaged. when something unexpected happens, there is always a learning opportunity. I always want to know "WHY" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@closertothetruth9209]

Thankyou for taking the time to make this detailed video

[@hozb1]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and skill. I'll never be able to do what you do, but it was so informative and well put together.

[@kenbarney8231]

Thanks for being responsible and respectful

[@murphy4trees]

not sure exactly what you are refering to, and you're most welcome..

[@jimwittneben7719]

great video. I totally agree that this requires skill. The hinge has to work and the pull has to have enough force. Great jobs. Stay safe.

[@sidekixtkd]

Great video! Very informative and instructional. Thanks for taking the time create it.

[@murphy4trees]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@d.e.b.b5788]

Great video explaining all that goes on when felling a tree that doesn't look like it will naturally fall where we want it to. Not that I'm going to be taking down the tree myself, but at least I will know when I hire someone, what he's doing. Thank you for making this video.

[@PeterLatterner-gd3fb]

I did my own cutting of a back leaning tree. I did not have sufficient tension on the pull rope, so when I did the back cut, the tree barber chaired and came down in the direction I did not want the tree to go. .fortunately, there was nothing on the neighbors property that was damaged and the barber chair occurred slowly enough that I was able to get away safely.

[@laneman8777]

Thank you, I have to fell a back leaner today. The power company topped it below the lines for me, just have to pull the main trunk over. It's a hollow Hackberry, so there's not much hinge wood. Trunk is about 20 feet tall, 15 inch diameter. I have a chain secured 2/3 up, will make cuts as you advise, pull carefully with tractor and see what happens. There's nothing to hit on either side, I just have to watch for myself getting injured.

[@laneman8777]

Success! I applied your techniques and safely dropped the tree. I put just enough tension on the chain to be snug, then made my cuts, leaving only the hinge. Then I hopped on the tractor, threw it in reverse and brought it right down. Thanks for the video.

[@murphy4trees]

NOCE.. so glad to hear these storied.. It's very cool to know I helped a man I will never meet. It's touching!

[@FMG1964]

Great information! And thanks for showing some that didn't go quite the way you wanted them to go. I believe showing people what can go wrong is just as important as showing how to do it right. Again, Thank You!

[@eddyblack7458]

Thank you for this Wade, and your channel is great!

[@charliescreenflow2709]

If you cut the hinge first on a back leaner, doesn’t that set you up for having your saw pinched during the back cut?

[@kevinbrogle4825]

Great compilation Daniel. This is solid info. Especially the failures

[@murphy4trees]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@johncarilloiii7828]

I cut down a big leaner this week. Messed up the 180 degrees pull from lean. Figured any tension in the desire fall line is good. Wrong. Also cut too deep on the back cut messing up the hinge. The hinge matters. Perfect 1 inch height but no hinge as I cut through to the notch. A recipe for disaster. Damn tree rotated 90 degrees before falling as the high cable attachment was around the trunk, AND A BIG LIMB. Big cable and lots of tension. The side forces forced the tree to rotate 90 degrees in place, than fall, 90 degrees to the desired direction. Wish I saw this video before my attempt. Cant stress enough how good the advice is. I got lucky the results weren't catastrophic. Got one more to do. I'll be a lot more careful this time.

[@davetoth9767]

Very good presentation. Thank you so much.

[@murphy4trees]

Glad it was helpful!

[@JoshNoss]

Where to find part 2?

[@adamcoleman4001]

Awesome work, very informative. Thanks

[@jackle842000]

What kind of rope is recommended for this? Will a synthetic winch rope, polyester, or sterling HTP rope work for a large back leaning tree? Is one much better than the other? I never seem to see arborists using synthetic winch rope but not sure why?

[@Sethhaun78]

Where did you get the double porta wrap device hooked up to receiver on truck

[@murphy4trees]

this was amost 15 years ago... those porties aren't made anymore...

[@TimAndOldSaws]

Awesome video Daniel. Looks like you dug out some old footage. Thanks for the longer video, your videos are always too short. I have watched them all keep The awesome videos coming our way.👍👍👍👍

[@murphy4trees]

ya. I started making this video in 2009... added the majority of commentary and examples from multiple jobs last winter

[@michaelfajoni6370]

I cut a lot of trees. This very clearly enforces you best pick your trees carefully and do not confuse the easy ones with the real deal.

[@stephenlarkin3377]

Great video

[@michaelpcooksey5096]

Outstanding professionalism. Carefully & well done. Hope making the videos helps focus too.

[@scratchbuilder5952]

Interesting information

[@aaronbaum2542]

Excellent video!! Thank you!! I learned a lot !!

[@Sethhaun78]

Again great content .thanks

[@mr12gauger]

I have a question about what you mean by open face. Is that a steeper angle than 45? It was my understanding that open face was an angled cut from below and above. Sort of like combining a Humboldt with a Conventional. In the video, it almost looks like a conventional cut with more of an angle. Could you clarify please. I have some that I need to fell and don't have your level of experience

[@murphy4trees]

Some refer to an open face as you described, both cuts angled about 45 degrees from lvel making a 90 degree open face. More commonly the open face refers to a steep angled top cut of about 70 degrees and a level floor or bottom cut. Genereally when I say open face, I AM talking about the later.

[@mr12gauger]

@@murphy4trees great info. Thank you

[@joshmcdermott4619]

I have a back leaner oak probably 2 to 3 arm hugs around. Approximately 20to 30 ft up there's some bug and wood pecker damage. I hung a tire swing years ago with three 20 foot lifting straps to a shack to a 10 ft lifting cable and never seen this damage while I was up there. However it's always had this lean. I'm worried about it coming over and taking a portion of my house out. Where would be the best spot to back hinge on this particular tree? Above or below the damage?

[@joshmcdermott4619]

The damage is probably 10ft or better and this is a very tall oak.

[@jakewalters4329]

Thank you this is very helpful and just what I was looking for! 🙂

[@steems951]

what i wonder. would it be possible to saw 2 or 3 times on top of each other. so that there is more wood to bend before the tree breaks over

[@nickz5907]

@steems951, I'm neither novice nor pro as I continue to learn through the years on my own projects. That multi stack cut concept crossed my mind. Never seen anyone do that and probably for good reason. Every cut is a compromise on the trunks integrity. We've seen tree's move and start spitting wedges. Likely too many irons in the fire to be safe. It could turn into an unpredictable vertical accordion. When working around protected hazards your going to have to invest in equipment or pay to contract out. As described here in the video a multi line or cable rigging set up will help you achieve the objective. If you have a one off hazard tree, though house killer, you may wish to pay for services. If you like the challenge and see years ahead of use you may wish to start adding rigging equipment. Some times I use the truck, other times I cable up with the industrial size come along with its dual cable and 3 foot plus telescoping handle. As you get up to cables end the east & west safety lines save your progress for a center cable winch reset. Not easy but you can work alone this way. Slow, steady and safe. If the tree's not rotten you may choose to climb and chunk it down. As stated every job has its own unique considerations to ponder.

[@Sethhaun78]

Best hands down ..man

[@bartongarren8484]

I learned alot watching this video, I do have a tree that is leaning over a trailer and I can't get leverage from the back cause it's a swampy area, can't use equipment to bring it back, so how do I twist the tree to the direction I want it to go ?

[@murphy4trees]

tough to tell without a little more information... you may need to call a pro. there are ways to set up redirects that will create a desired vector. hard to explain in the comment section, or pound in some ground anchors

[@CashJohnston]

Great information!

[@kevindavis7797]

Great video. You talked me out of trying it though.

[@deanhansen3950]

Great video! Super informative!

[@folse12]

How do I learn and advance to one day be a professional? So far so good. I 1st started cutting using the yard of my house. And I did neighbors. I worked on my backyard fence line. Now I advertise I cut trees. i wasn't able to get insured but will hopefully. When I make cuts safety is first. Please anyone send advice.

[@murphy4trees]

best strategy is to get a job with a good company and learn frm some veteran pros

[@folse12]

@@murphy4trees I did apply at one but didn't know anyone working there. I have learned from watching videos and practicing it. So far so good

[@folse12]

@@murphy4trees I served 18 years as a heavy equipment operator. And we did use chainsaws. I don't know if you are familiar with the military. But we would be sent to do jobs. and use whatever equipment we have. I really enjoy your videos although most a beginner shouldn't try. I signed up for youtube premium and made a playlist of tree videos I watch several times. I did a job yesterday on a tree that could only be cut and hung on a another. I got it to the ground. I should of charged $200 but made $150. I advertise Tree services; A tree cut down $200 ; just limbs and branches $150 and to prune and hedge trees $100. My ad is run in a small town like newspaper. I had Allen's tree service help at my place with a hung tree. He brought in a bucket truck and charged me $850. And I did the clean up. I will watch more of your videos and use the ones made for a beginner. You said learn from a pro but I don't see chainsaw training available. If I did go work for a tree surgeon they want experience. and if you did start they would have you first doing labor like picking up wood. But I will be just fine. Thanks for your help. God bless

[@johnboudreau842]

Unbelievable what you guys do!

[@murphy4trees]

I always wondered how church steeples are built.. someone has to do it I guess!

[@neild7971]

In an effort to both have enough force for the initial pull but also speed to keep it moving in the right direction once it comes upright I’ve set a line with a block pulling against a stopper knot which after a few feet passes by a ground anchor turning the pull into a 1-2, (reverse two to one). Have you tried anything like that?

[@Typhus-th6ud]

I always bring my back cut 2 inches above level for heavy back leaning trees. Ive seen too many tree buck off the stump and im always scared its going to buck especially with the tension so high up on the tree with the pulley. Am i just being paranoid? If rather have to generate extra force to pull above that slightly bigger hinge than risk the tree bucking off the stump into the house.

[@fraser281]

Great vid.

[@arthursnow969]

very good info

[@robertpronovost3839]

Hey nice video. You added a lot of content I haven’t heard other people haven’t added on the three main things. One the cut the trunk and decay then rope usage I think this is where I learned more than any other video before. Thanks

[@Liberallez]

GOOD STUFF, DANIEL!!!!

[@murphy4trees]

YW

[@johnpro2847]

14:00 2 way comms certainly would have helped, esp with an apprentice.

[@JustHelpMeOuT5466]

what type of rope you are using, what happens if the rope breaks??

[@murphy4trees]

half inch true blue. 3/4" for heavier pulls. the rope doesn't break when the proper understanding is used.. if there is any chance of breaking the rope, I use 2 ropes.. when 2 isn't enough then I use 3 etc...

[@seantomei3272]

Great info, well explained. I often basal tie off on the lean side of the stem, what are your thoughts on using that method for control and pull power?

[@neild7971]

You mean from the pull through a crotch down the back of the tree tied just above the felling cuts? Pulling power is the same, fine as long as you are happy with your visual inspection from the ground and the crotch is strong enough.

[@murphy4trees]

I've used it plenty. Simple, quick and effective. I'll also use a basket and just tie both ends to the machine, which puts less force on the rope

[@brodyowens4620]

Wow nice video thanks for putting this together I’m sure it took some time but this is way better information than some of the ISA thanks 😀

[@br-dj2ti]

Great video buddy thank you

[@shermanhofacker4428]

Cable to the sides if there are anchor points available and the cables won't cause problems with things on the ground to help the tree go where it should.

[@SavDog262]

what size or rating rope do you use for those leaners?

[@murphy4trees]

mostly half inch true blue unless they are monsters.

[@SavDog262]

@@murphy4trees thanks so much for the reply. Do you think that would be sufficient for an 80’ pine, probably 14” round trunk base?

[@murphy4trees]

@@SavDog262 yes.. that's tall ad skinny... easy to pull with a high line .

[@JoshNoss]

​@@murphy4treeswhy not something like synthetic winch cable/rope? I seen another commenter mentioned that and it's what I typically use with my psw 4000 portable winch

[@kathmandu1575]

Done like a pro!

[@ronsilva516]

Bucking billy said to check you out

[@murphy4trees]

much appreciated

[@amathonn]

Why wasn't it topped first?

[@murphy4trees]

cause it was growing over the house... I always prefer to drop a tree when it will fit and make the lay...

[@7kyro]

Man those maple fibers were almost non-existent. Good job though. The very rate time when I have 2 pull lines I like to have one medium speed but steady and one that’s fast that can take up slack immediately.

[@williamwallace9620]

Wondering why i never see tree care guys simply using synthetic winch cable to do the pulling? 1/4" HMPE winch line is 9000-10,000lb breaking strength, smaller, lighter, 5/16" gets you up to around 14,000lb.. it doesn't stretch and can be gotten at 50 cents/ft for the 1/4" size if you know where to look.

[@NarcissisticPlutocraticPower]

Daniel knows his stuff... 4 sure. "🅻🅰🅲🅸🅽🅶" the top of the tree's pull line (2-3) attachment points spread over a few feet of a branch or multiple branches. 1. For 🅻🅸🅼🅸🆃🅸🅽🅶 top break-off. Attaching to multiple points at the top of the tree to distribute the pull force and as a 2. 🅵🅰🅸🅻🆂🅰🅵🅴 - 🅱🅰🅲🅺🆄🅿 attachment point if there is a break-off. 3, Having a re-direct 🅱🅻🅾🅲🅺 🆂🆈🆂🆃🅴🅼 to get that 180° angle for the pull line. 💲Daniel is giving away GOLD in this video!💲

[@jonathanzurek2644]

Had a coworker break his skull and spine from a big branch a few months ago. Dangerous stuff.

[@dutchdog804]

Why are all these ancient videos popping back up on you tube.

[@bear9923]

EXCELLENT

[@iamnegan1515]

Hell of a lean. 👍

[@nevin3123]

youre the man

[@murphy4trees]

thanks

[@lh98]

I’ve got a big red oak but I want to fell it in a different direction than 180° against the lean. More like 30-50°. It’s heavy ass wood I know that and idk much about falling trees. Would I win the stupid award to try and do it myself? Lol I’ve dropped a few but never with a lean like this has. Live and learn right? Hahaha

[@murphy4trees]

NO don't try it yourself. You need a lot of pull with heavy ropes and machines as well as a perfect cut... SIde leaners are harder than back leaners. When a hinge fails it always fails to the side weight... If there's a few bushes or a fence that could get hit them maybe worth taking a chance, but anything of value that could be dmaged simply isn't worth taking a chance on. Ask around for a real tree guy to come and do it on the side form his day job.

[@davidaronson9475]

Got it. I think I'll just pass. Thank you.

[@charleyweinhardt]

16:13 umm, I'd say that's a few tons...😁

[@2363joey]

I disagree the tree should be pulled before cutting the hinge, sure don't pull too hard to break the top of the tree, but pull until you see the tree start to arch or start moving away from the lean. You have to remember the hinge is cut on the side of the tree that's keeping it from falling the direction of the lean. I also pull from almost equal height running my line through pullies, and usually have the pulling vehicle pulling in the opposite or safe direction. Been doing it for years and never had any fails. If that was a bigger tree I wouldn't want you to do it !!

[@murphy4trees]

That's just what I say and 9:28 . I have a grpahic that talks about pre-tensioing. Probably should have mentioned it earlier. thanks.. and no I don't usually bother running high redirect pullies to keep the pull lines level. Much more important to set a high pull line. If you are pulling with a truck, i's not a bad idea to set a redirect on the ground to keep from lifting the tires.

[@2363joey]

I usually have big pines with hard lean in the wrong direction so I have to rig up high to a neighboring tree and run down to the base using pulleys. I always make my backcuts first. I have one to cut in a couple weeks, it's leaning over a house

[@blu203]

Working with unexperienced rope workers can get you killed.

[@MichaelWortham-x2t]

I rather use my bucket truck more safer

[@Sethhaun78]

???

[@Surtac100]

Looks like a hickory tree

[@murphy4trees]

negative.. young norway maple 100%

[@douglasdonegan9372]

👍

[@olddoug8945]

the term is "fell" not "fall"