How to fall in love with TDD - Gui Ferreira

How to fall in love with TDD - Gui Ferreira - NDC London 2024

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@Pablo_IF 5 ай бұрын

Great talk. First time that I heard from someone make the connection between hexagonal architecture and TDD. It was a "WoW" moment for me. I'll keep pulling on that thread.Thanks!

@giorgos-4515 8 ай бұрын

Unit tests are the ones you write because you are afraid you will screw things up. Integration tests are the ones you write because you are afraid of other developers and systems. End to end tests are the ones you write because you are afraid of the user.

@elmalleable 8 ай бұрын

Amazing

@7th_CAV_Trooper 8 ай бұрын

Unit tests are the ones you write to explore and iterate over the domain context.

@Rick104547 8 ай бұрын

Tbh integration tests work just as well with TDD. Just have to know how to write them (tip testcontainers are your friend).

@7th_CAV_Trooper 8 ай бұрын

@@Rick104547 integration tests and unit tests serve different purposes. To say integration tests work just as well as unit tests misses the point. Yes, integration tests work well for testing integration, but they are wholey ineffective for testing a unit. As you tie components together the volume of variables and dependencies required to construct any given test will become unwieldy. The point of a unit test is to interate rapidly on the smallest possible unit of work. This is possible because there are no external dependencies and the variables required to construct a test are minimized.

@Rick104547 8 ай бұрын

@@7th_CAV_Trooper I disagree, depending on what you are writing integration tests can be a better tool to iterate on than unit tests. Context is really the keyword here. Test behaviors and not implementation, maybe that means you need integration tests instead of unit tests. They can be really fast as well. Mine usually run in 100ms and run parallel so even having hundreds is not a problem at all.

@SlowAside5 7 ай бұрын

Great talk, although parts of it seem to mirror Ian Cooper’s famous TDD talk. The flywheel analogy was great!

@7th_CAV_Trooper 8 ай бұрын

Thank you, Gui. The flywheel analogy resonates with me. I remember working hard to turn Kent Beck's ideas into habits, but now I can't imagine developing any other way. Amazing that people still resist TDD in 2024.

@giorgos-4515 8 ай бұрын

The people that resist it just havent read enough on testing and havent practiced it enough. After some time it is more comfortable writing tests than running your code manually.

@7th_CAV_Trooper 8 ай бұрын

@@giorgos-4515 yes, with well organized tests I can iterate much faster than I did in the old days.

@lerinarazafy7826 7 ай бұрын

Its the "multi-level marketing" like ecosystem that grew around TDD that people really resist.

@giorgos-4515 7 ай бұрын

@@lerinarazafy7826 The usual saying that to do X thing correctly you gotta do more X is a mistake said by a lot of people promoting TDD, i think what is missing is how to get familiar with it and show actual examples and not how to TDD addition.

@7th_CAV_Trooper 7 ай бұрын

@@giorgos-4515 or maybe people are just too lazy to read books and try it for themselves?

@rommellagera8543 7 ай бұрын

Probably I am just the slow one because I live and die in a debugger, could not develop a system without one. It gives me insight how my logic match-up with the requirement because most of the time I am wrong. Most of my code were compartmentalized so unless I change something somewhere I just need to debug that portion again. Yes it is expensive but for me manual testing, with debugging, is the best way to learn about my code and design with the side effect of minimizing bugs. Manual testing forces you to think within the context of the whole system (zero mocks). I observe that most developers now could not or do not know how to QA their own work. Partly because they don't truly know what the whole system does, they only know portions of it. Like the famous quote of Jim Coplien - "today's motto in software shops is we don't need to know it, we just need to improve it".