How to Fix Toronto’s (Mostly) Useless Subway Line: The Sheppard Subway

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Toronto’s line 4 is an underused, not so useful subway line - but that’s because it’s only part of a subway! In today’s video, I make the case for expanding it to dramatically increase suburban rapid transit access. Enjoy!
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Ever wondered why your city's transit just doesn't seem quite up to snuff? RMTransit is here to answer that, and help you open your eyes to all of the different public transportation systems around the world!
Reece (the RM in RMTransit) is an urbanist and public transport critic residing in Toronto, Canada, with the goal of helping the world become more connected through metros, trams, buses, high-speed trains, and all other transport modes.

[@RMTransit]

I didn’t mention it in the video, but the enormous development happening at Downsview adjacent to the Wilson Yard also had huge potential to drive future ridership!

[@andrew20146]

If we're building cut-and-cover anyway, it might make sense to extend past/through the Downsview development to avoid future construction complexity.

[@michaelvavala3088]

I was just going to comment that. Downsview has so much potential to be one of the best TOD in North America. Which should be a no brainer alone to build the west ext. never mind all of the great points made in the video.

[@anthonysaunders345]

You made a number of good points in your vid, but the one that struck me was the relationship between land development and ridership. Significant development warrants mass transit in some form, that's obvious. However, I've been quoting Field of Dreams for years: "If you build it, they will come." When a terminal or subways stop appears, sooner or later there will be development to feed it. Besarion is a case in point, with tremendous development taking place and planned in recent years. The main problem there was zoning and building permits, which until recently favoured low-density suburban neighbourhoods. Don Mills has also seen an acceleration in development, but the truly stunning example is between North York City Centre and Sheppard, which has exploded in growth since the former received a subway station. It would be interesting to study the correlation between putting in a station somewhere and how it affects development and population density locally in the ensuing years...

[@fredashay]

Something just occurred to me. If replacing 4-car trains with automated 2-car trains that are twice as frequent is more convenient and costs about the same, take that to the next step and run 1-car "trains" that are four times as frequent and costs about the same. Then take that to an extreme and run "pods" that are eight times as frequent and costs about the same. Oops! I've just justified "pods," lol.

[@RMTransit]

@@fredashay there’s a limit to practical frequency

[@anthonysaunders345]

Sheppard to the west, Scarborough Town to the east. You have my vote. RMTransit for city counsellor!

[@aselwyn1]

Isnt McCowan station on line 2 being built with plans for line 4 to connect? although its a bit of a tossup between what 2 the lines should really connect at.

[@somethingelsehere8089]

Why not Mayor?

[@vokasimid5330]

​@@somethingelsehere8089 Minister of Transportation is more suitable

[@RMTransit]

@@aselwyn1 Only at the most basic level, either can work

[@stephenolan5539]

I would go North to Steeles then East to Pacific Mall then South to join up.

[@terminator1562]

if the people in power were smart. they would’ve done this line 4 extension decades ago

[@alistairlogie1815]

They were going to extend line 4 decades ago as part of the Network 2011 plan, but Queen's Park cancelled the project because of the cost.

[@TheRandCrews]

NDP spent that money to create the Eglinton west subway but it was quickly cancelled with new Conservatives got into power but the money from the project didn’t pour into the then being Sheppard subway literally it vanished.

[@jafo766]

Anyone can be educated , there is no guarantee they'll be intelligent.

[@bmw803]

Why can they resort this to a Chinese railway company? They built the entire Shanghai system in 11 years. It would also probably cost half price too.

[@jordanbiro8405]

Man I was thinking from Sheppard west to Weston there should be a subway , maybe you throw 1 stop between it and Sheppard Yonge as well

[@SpectreMk2]

Feels indeed like a low hanging fruit. I also applaud the effort on documenting the various ridership numbers for each lines, makes a really good case overall.

[@andrewclarkson3401]

I agree 100%. This line would be even better if it also extended east beyond McCowan/Scarborough Centre to Malvern, connecting places with potential to places with current residential density.

[@MirorR3fl3ction]

Also 100% agree with the extension down to Scarborough centre. Never made sense to me that it doesnt connect to anything east of the Don river

[@otanakugaming3357]

I also do think extending to UTSC could also be an option, since there are some redevelopment projects around UTSC

[@Dennis-vh8tz]

How about extending Line 4 to McCowan and transferring the McCowan to Scarborough Town Centre from Line 2 to track to Line 4. So line 4 would run along Sheppard from Yonge to McCowan, then turn south Scarborough Town Center and end. Line 2 would also end at Scarborough Town Center. Then either line 2 or 4, or a new line 5, or an LRT, could be extended along Ellesmere to Centenary Hospital and U of T Scarborough Campus.

[@stephenolan5539]

I would go North to Steeles then East to Pacific Mall then South to join up with the Bloor line.

[@russellculver2757]

Even further from the city, without any subways downtown going E-W along King or Queen?

[@deanlemckeevans]

Suprised this isn't already underway, extending line 4 would really help connect the city. Toronto is a major world city and deserves a world class metro.

[@stevendchu]

@@kieranemcgarry Metrolinx is also the party most responsible for the dumpster fire known as Eglinton LRT so I don't have very high hopes

[@FLAMERNECRO]

Line 4 frequency is actually now 7.5 minutes with the service cuts in 2023. I sure do wish it was still 5.5 minutes.

[@RMTransit]

Very rough 😢

[@Mewcaloid]

I want our new mayor to watch this video cause it’s so informative. I remember seeing signs saying extending line 4 on Sheppard during elections & lo and behold. Nada.

[@davidreichert9392]

This re-opens some old wounds for those of us who are old enough to remember the cancellation of the Eglinton subway and shortening of the Sheppard line. Those of us who experienced the sardine can that was the previous Sheppard bus can tell you that there is more value on the Sheppard line than meets the eye. That was in the early 90s (with 5 minute headways!), I shudder to think what that bus would be like now. In a previous video you also made another suggestion that I really liked, and that was to have the line run in conjunction with Line 1 from Sheppard West to Finch West, so that people riding across the top on line 6 could continue on to Line 4 without having to make an intermediate transfer on Line 1.

[@miggio0]

I remember when they cancelled it. Bad decisions to not expand the subways across the city have cost billions in lost productivity for Canada's economy.

[@toddclayton]

As someone living in Cedarvale, I've got a bone to pick with Mike Harris. Thats being polite.

[@phillydisco]

Thank the governments above the city level for cancelling all of that by cancelling funding for transit. Good ole Mike Harris.

[@EVIL-C]

@@toddclayton Harris is one of the worst premiers Ontario ever had.

[@vipulr9]

It would be fantastic if the subway line was extended to Sheppard West, especially for commuters like me who travel all the way to Vaughan. And have to change 4 times The convenience of having the subway reach further west side of line 1 would be a great improvement. And shorten travel time for me by 45 min

[@giths19]

I was disappointed that they chose to extend line 1to Vaughan which was already long line instead of line 4. They basically certified line 4's nickname "the stubway"

[@_Just_Another_Guy]

I'm not an undergrad student anymore since more than a decade ago but when I was, I wished the TTC would've extended the subway system all the way up to York University so there wouldn't be a need to wait and take the bus (which was so inconsistent).

[@noahbrown6961]

Ditto, I’m from Vaughan and have to commute to Scarborough everyday for school. The TTC really isn’t an option with all the transfers since it takes over two hours

[@local3433]

Thank you. There needs to be a circle line to loop everything together not simply travel in north-south or east-west.

[@bentosekai]

i live close to the yamanote line in tokyo right now (on a uni exchange from toronto) and i would kill for something even close to the infrastructure here loop lines are amazing

[@RMTransit]

I don’t really think we “need” a circle!

[@annoyed707]

A circle, no, but close that ludicrous gap across Sheppard West.

[@bentosekai]

need, no, but in a few decades once we’ve built the new lines and extensions that we really need (like the one discussed in this video) and significantly expanded RER it would be nice

[@mattrix4200]

As one of the city staff for the new community centre (Toronto's newest & largest community centre with a full sized olympic pool, running track, library, gym, and 4 stories of meeting rooms & class rooms!) I can say Bessarion will FINALLY be a well used stop!

[@TheTroyc1982]

@@jeanbolduc5818 Gun crime is way down in toronto this year and has never gotten back to it worst year which was 1993. For a city of it's size Toronto doesn't sprawl anywhere near a US city.

[@mattrix4200]

@@TheTroyc1982 it's true that statistically we're still far from being a typical ''big American city''... but there's some validity to the point that Toronto's ''culture'' has become more combative, less inclusive (despite its insane levels of virtue signalling and policy-engineering), and ultimately, more polarized which makes everyone feel less safe. In that regard, a solid transit plan which connects all of Toronto may be (just maybe) part of the solution!

[@ALuimes]

@@jeanbolduc5818 Sprawling suburbs have been a thing in Toronto as long as it has been in the States.

[@DianeTheBody]

When does the community center open? I'm so excited!

[@mattrix4200]

@@DianeTheBody should be ready to go by the summertime! :)

[@sarahposting]

this basically is everything ive been thinking for years! if we've built something already, why not make it useful when the answer is already so painfully obvious. sheppard west and scarborough town centre are already hubs, it would be such an amazing connection replacing two slow and congested buses and multiple transfers. id even take it one step further and say line 4 should share line 1 right of way to head to york u, providing it with a consistent ridership of people going east

[@RMTransit]

heading up to York is definitely an interesting idea

[@stephenolan5539]

I think there should be a dedicated express line from Sheppard East to Dundas with a stop at Eglinton and Bloor.

[@jaclynmistry5719]

Sheppard between Bayview and Leslie is also getting a total reconstruction with wider sidewalks and bike lanes. The whole hope is to get more cars off the road, especially with the huge development at Bessarion. Hopefully ridership on line 4 goes up and the city finally extends it!

[@knarf_on_a_bike]

Thank God! I rode several km along Sheppard last week on my way to Agincourt Mall. Sheppard is extremely bike-hostile right now.

[@notstevelam]

"more cars off the road" will never happen in toronto. there was a HUGE surge in car sales over the pandemic lol. and right now, public transit/ttc has NEVER looked worse (less service, massive increase in violent crime, constant cost increases etc)

[@otanakugaming3357]

@@notstevelam indeed. I do think it’s more important to speed up on building more transit than focusing solely on reducing car usage

[@IsraelistheJewsland]

​@@otanakugaming3357 the corruption will never allow speed of construction to increase. It doesn't take 15yrs to build a subway

[@loverofhumanity]

@@notstevelam the violent crime has actually gone down again since they hired security and have taken many of the mentally ill off the subway. it's actually pretty much back to how it was prepandemic. it was essentially a handful of guys just causing havoc that have been taken back to the mental asylum.

[@quixomega]

I've lived in Toronto for 30 years and I've only used line 4 once, when I specifically went to ride the line soon after it opened. Line 4 only makes sense if you live out there because it's nothing but residential areas. A connection to Sheppard West has always been the clear choice, but I expect it'll be 30 years before it eventually happens.

[@Electrify85]

There's Bayview Village, North York General, Oriole GO station, and Fairview Mall. There is also the 404 to support park and ride connections from the 404. Going east some destinations from the Yorkland employment area, Agincourt Mall, Agincourt GO station, and of course Scarborough Centre. Just because there is nothing there that you specifically use doesn't mean there aren't destinations for thousands of others.

[@pauly5418]

About 20k(?) people work in the Consumers Rd business area. There was supposed to be a Consumers Rd station in the first phase until Mike Harris chopped the line to Don Mills. Seneca College Newnham is at Don Mills/Finch. An extension of the Ontario Line with a connection to the Sheppard line would be huge. The Newnham campus is probably the third largest school campus in Toronto after UofT St George and York U Keele. There are about 10k FT, 100k PT students at this campus the last I heard.

[@notstevelam]

lol i've lived in toronto for decades and have never taken line 4 ever.

[@Alex-mv3ht]

I call it the "IKEA line"

[@loverofhumanity]

@@Electrify85 yeah im genuinely confused. The guy is clearly not familiar with the area. it is getting increasingly populated and congested. it's actually a very important subway line that is used by so many people.

[@treebush]

Just connecting to sheppard west would be so nice the buses east is so slow for such a short length

[@RMTransit]

Exactly, it fills a short gap where transit is needed

[@renostrano5842]

I moved by Bayview station in 2006 and every year the line has gotten busier and busier as condos have grown up - and continue to grow up - along the line. No guarantee of a seat even at 6:00 a.m. when everyone funnels in from the east to get to Yonge. It's also packed in the evening. Extending the line west to connect to Shepard W. should be a priority. The bus b/w Yonge/Shepard and Shepard West is tortuous and also always full. :) :) :)

[@v-sion]

And yet the video creator quotes low ridership numbers. A westward extension should be a lower priority than Eglinton crosstown and extension. And yes it is SO easy to say "just build more lines everywhere", of course I agree. Step one is to stop voting Conservative.

[@alexburke2287]

Dude, your level of dedication to transit is remarkable, the quality of your videos and your commentary are second to none. You are a legend.

[@felipecanobarodrigues7127]

In São Paulo (Brazil) you have a cool similar case. The least used subway line in the city was Line 5- Purple, that used to have 9.4 km, 6 stations and transport around 100.000 ~ 150.000 passenger dailly in a short and disconnected route until 2008. After being extended to 20km and 17 stations, it's dailly ridership rose to almost 600.000 dailly in 2019 (pre-Covid era). Around 90% more passengers.

[@bloodydoll5897]

it's really upsetting how much nothing is planned for sheppard line in the future, and how hard it seems to actually get something going. like, it feels unbelievably obvious to extend it to line 1 and 2. it's not even like nothing exists there already! they've already built a heavy rail subway there! and it's in a good spot!! all they need to do is extend it

[@jonavin]

This line doesn’t make a whole a lot sense unless it does get a west and east extension to connect to the rest of the network. I am sure there are challenges but what you’ve proposed makes so much sense. A future Ontario north extension should also connect with it at Fairview Mall.

[@RMTransit]

Thank you! I agree!

[@quickform2264]

A subway stop at Bathurst & Sheppard would do a lot for a lot of people.

[@dansolo360]

Totally agree with you! I like the new LRT, but nothing beats the subway that we already have. This line extension would be the proper and efficient way of doing things.

[@patrick97764]

I would say that I agree with most of this. The only thing I would say is that new stations should probably still be built to allow for 6 car trains eventually the way the older ones were. Sure it will only serve 4 car trains for a while but future proofing and allowing for later expansion is probably a good idea especially if line 4 is to become one the busiest lines in the Americas as you said.

[@otanakugaming3357]

Indeed.

[@peterj.teminski6899]

The shorter stations save costs and gets it built sooner. Automation can make up the difference for some time until extending is required.

[@giths19]

@@peterj.teminski6899 automation wont help issues that will occur at busy and packed transfer points like Sheppard-Yonge which have 6 car trains dumping people onto a 4 car line. Also Don Mills is busy as is and will get busier as the areas keeps getting developed. If the line gets extended to have more stations and serve more people, we'll all forget the underused Besarion and Leslie jokes like how no one mentions Old Mill and Royal York on line 2 and Rosedale and Summerhill on line 1.

[@patrick97764]

@@peterj.teminski6899 Automated 6 car trains would still be better than automated 4 car trains. The stations should at least be future proofed for extending the platforms for later

[@peterj.teminski6899]

@@patrick97764 You have just added millions to each station and the initial rolling stock order. Overall you could be adding billions of $ to the project when it is not needed.

[@TorToroPorco]

One of the best videos from Reese especially with regards to explaining the advantages and what it can do to increase ridership. If it was up to me and money was no object I would have a line 5 extension merge with line 2 st Sheppard & McCowan and interline down to Scarborough Town Center to save riders from having to transfer just for 1 stop to get to the buses at Sheppard.

[@RMTransit]

Thanks for watching!

[@TorToroPorco]

@@RMTransit Sorry I accidentally called you Martin instead of Reese in my initial post.

[@tramcrazy]

I’m from the UK and know next to nothing about North American cities (well, other than what I’ve learnt from rmtransit). But even I can see that Reece’s proposals for this line make a huge amount of sense.

[@cornwalldragon4617]

I've always been wondering why they don't extend the Sheppard Line to Sheppard West which would make a whole lot of sense and you've proven that to be correct.

[@Weaver_Games]

The original plan was it to go all the way to the other side of Line 1 to Shep West but it got cancelled lol

[@starofknight]

I almost always go East/West up there in the North of the city but this would be a complete game changer going from one hour bus trip to something that can compete with a car.

[@42K4N3]

Another option with a western extension of line 4 would be for it to continue running north on line 1 from Sheppard West station to VMC thereby having a convenient one train trip from the NW to the NE of the city.

[@DrakeFromStateFarm]

Meh no too expensive just take the transfer

[@RMTransit]

I’ve suggested this before and it’s definitely possible, but it might be asking for too much.

[@otanakugaming3357]

I really want this line to be constructed from Sheppard to Scarborough Town / Malvern / UTSC. It would really be a game changer for the traffic condition in the northern suburbs of Toronto. I get some people may say “there is not enough density around the line” but what I thought was that it’s a bit of an outdated vision rather than what’s actually going on along Sheppard. The current planning approach, in general, feels a bit more shortsighted

[@stephenolan5539]

I would go North to Steeles then East to Pacific Mall then South to hook up. And have Markham pay half for three stations.

[@otanakugaming3357]

@@stephenolan5539 That would be good for the Line 2 extension, which I would also like to see.

[@takatomon]

The whole McCowan/Sheppard vs STC reminds me of the 407 terminal vs VMC. VMC feels more like a hub in terms of surroundings as opposed to 407 terminal where there's practically nothing but the buses to connect. I low-keyed wish all the buses went to VMC rather than forcing me to take TTC up to VMC when I've gotten off a GO bus. Overall great video. A lot of ppl scoff that the Sheppard subway is underused but 50k a day is no joke. Like you said, it just needs better connections and integral part of the subway network

[@RMTransit]

yep that’s a very reasonable comparison!

[@DanTheCaptain]

It’s a shame Line 4 doesn’t get the attention it needs. Why the line hasn’t been extended out west to Sheppard West yet is a mystery to me. The plans were there from the get go so it shouldn’t cost that much and be that difficult. I would also connect the line to STC, as highlighted in this video. Edit: Added thoughts.

[@JogBird]

ive lived in TO for 15 years and take the subway almost everyday, but, only used line 4 for the first time a few months ago

[@TheRandCrews]

I visited Toronto to check out universities in early April, took every line of the TTC got stranded at Leslie Station cause the conductor engaged the brakes too early so they had to restart the subway many times just for the doors to open and close properly. Spent like 15-20 mins at the station till it left

[@RMTransit]

It’s useful for only a few very specific trips!

[@DrSaxon3]

I totally agree with this! Lines 4 and 6 should be extended to both ends of Line 1, but Line 4 extends eastward and Line 6 westward. Additionally, automating Line 4 would also give it more unique train models, something I expected when I rode the line but was very disappointed because it had the T1 models like Line 2.

[@TheRandCrews]

I thought they’ve been using the Rocket for years now on Line 4

[@RMTransit]

I think the rockets are fine, they can probably be automated!

[@DrSaxon3]

@@RMTransit They should be given a distinguishable look at least like the new Line 2 models

[@arcticlaw9198]

The only times I have taken Line 4 is just to transfer to Line 1. That being said, the new Line 2 extension to Shepperd and McCowan gives me hope for a potential extension of Line 4 connecting the station to Don Mills

[@jrivademarjr]

I’ve never been to Toronto, but looking at the map of the network, it is an absolute no-brainer that they should extend the Shepherd line.

[@tylerhergott3893]

Where are you from?

[@RMTransit]

I agree 😅

[@theatheistpaladin]

I approve of your changes. Get it done.

The western extension makes so much sense, and would probably be an easier sell for a first phase, partly because it acts on closing the loop of the line 1. In many ways equivalent to the relationship between the blue and orange lines in Montreal.

[@northernsurferboy]

You realize it was supposed to go deep into Scarborough until Mike Harris botched it up

[@sawtooth808]

☝️☝️This ☝️☝️

[@theskiesaboveus]

They should’ve canned Shepard line and built the crosstown instead like Bob Rae planned. It was a sweetheart deal for Mel Lastman

[@RedroomStudios]

there is plenty of blame for Toronto's patchwork subway system including more than 20 years of no expansion leading up to the Sheppard line fiasco.

[@Gameflyer001]

I've been saying it makes economic and logistical sense to extend Line 4 westward, at least to Sheppard West (formerly Downsview) to ease congestion in the north end and be a proactive development to complement the inevitable Yonge North extension to the Richmond Hill Centre. The 84 and 85 Sheppard buses are quite popular bus routes, but they also are a large contributor of traffic along the street in both directions. Replacing them with subways would enable transferring that high ridership underground and enable more connectivity unhindered by road traffic.

[@delanoanderson5890]

I would also add, extending it directly to sheppard and McCowan would provide a better option for those living in Malvern than the Eg East LRT if extended eastward.

[@walter2902]

I see a Malvern to Centennial (BRT interchange) to STC (BRT, Line S, Line B interchange) to NEW Ellesmere GO (Interchange) to Vic Park to ?? (either Ontario Line York Mills station or Line S/VicPark station) as being the solution to this. Agree, EELRT not the greatest idea.

[@carlinthomas9482]

I would build a light Metro line from Malvern to Centennial College then to Scarborough Twn Centre, at the STC it would travel along the existing SRT route and then connect back to the CP corridor at Warden and Ellesmere and continue West along there to at least Kipling station.

[@dznrboy]

Bloor, Eglinton, Sheppard, and Finch should all be extended to Pearson Airport, and Pearson should be a transit hub

[@panhenkey]

This extension is such a no-brainer, it was the first thing that struck me when I first saw the map of Toronto metro years before even visiting the city.

[@heavenlyhashbrown1]

Nailed it, Reece! The densification along Sheppard continues at an unparalleled pace. Extending Line 4 east and west would only benefit the rest of the system.

[@brianboake2770]

This video gets my vote as the best you've ever done. A compelling argument, well-researched and -presented. Is anyone in government listening?

[@mattjmaltby]

This is so well done, how do we get this video into the hands of people at the TTC or government?

[@williamwatts4790]

@@jeanbolduc5818 wondering how relevant this is to the OP's posting....

[@mattjmaltby]

@@jeanbolduc5818 almost none of this is true, gun murders are down, different ethnic groups are both preserving their culture and mixing (take a look how many mixed ethnicity couples you see in Toronto), and it’s getting less American an and more Asian in its transportation infrastructure and urban planning every year. I don’t think you know what you are talking about.

[@TaliaJohnson]

I've been following transit in Toronto for 4+ decades now. Originally line 4 plan was to go west to what is now Sheppard west as well as east to Scarborough Town Centre, and there was thought of rail out to the Metro Zoo. Sadly, politics got in the way of good planning.

[@l337g0g0]

8 years ago i had to run that line twice a month for a few years, it is SOOOO much more pleasant that any TTC ride in Toronto. The stations are clean, not crowded, the people are not drug addicted homeless people, the people that ride that line are super calm peaceful relaxed. It was the same as getting on the Go train Barrie line in the middle of the afternoon from Toronto. As a rider sometimes you just have to enjoy things like this.

[@DrakeFromStateFarm]

By the way, at 4:22 when you said the 401 is the busiest highway in Canada, it’s actually the busiest highway IN THE WORLD 😂😂

[@RMTransit]

That’s debated, but it is very busy!

[@ahurafarahani3848]

I feel like taking the funds from the yonge north extension and building this would be better alongside building a proper transit connection with lesile station and the richmond hill go line to help build ridership there alongside just making the richmond hill line better

[@duanethebathtub951]

I agree, except that the yonge line should go to Steeles. The Richmond hill go line shoukd really be 7 days a week and all day service and add a couple more stops between Sheppard and Union.

[@RMTransit]

The Yonge North extension is too expensive, but it’s a good project. That’s an extremely busy transit corridor.

[@ahurafarahani3848]

@@RMTransit But I mean just thinking though, York Region wouldn't feed it with proper service (You also said that in a previous video Idk if you changed your mind though) There already is a Go line there that nobody really uses because the service is pitiful. Wouldn't it be a better investment to maybe cut the deal with the freight company for Metrolinx to electrify it and treat that like a sort of express subway line, and for the people who live in between Hwy 7 and Steeles I think going back to the original plan for the YRT to build 3 BRT stops at Royal Orchard, Centre, and Clark would be better that way people on Centre street would also be served and with fare integration all the vehicles would be able to go in the fare paid zone just like any TTC vehicle, also I heard that the city of toronto wanted to tear down Centre point mall to build condos which honestly isn't that great of an idea because Centre point mall is a pretty major amenity to the locals around the area even Clark, and taking the subway to Steeles where majority of the benefit of the extension is and putting the Go and Viva terminal at Steeles station and taking that land and building condos would be far better for everybody. With the current subway plan and since the subway is meant to replace where the viva blue currently operates within the section of Hwy 7 and Finch, people living at Centre street would have to walk a little bit to catch the a ride( unless it is the 77 bus ofc) but if we just terminate line 1 at Steeles and build BRT stops at Royal Orchard and Clark it just seems to be better. Sorry for typing so much lol also if you have anything to say about this Please say.

[@sirbobloblaws]

@@ahurafarahani3848 York Region Buses will no longer operate between Steeles and Finch, and will be greatly reduced between Steeles and Highway 7. That alone should provide more frequent bus service feeding the subway.

[@arferbargel]

The Line 4 extension sounds like a good idea that would hugely improve TTC service, so I am fairly confident we'll never see it. Downgrading to LRT sounds dumb and wasteful, so I fully expect Toronto to move ahead with it at some point. Unrelated, I had to smile at the "density" you showed around Bessarion. It's more than used to be there, but that's not saying much...

[@seanshen8325]

Eglinton deserves the infrastructure of L4: 4-car train fully grade separated. The current street running light rail will be at capacity soon

[@XENONPLASMA]

Line 4 extension is a great idea but the politicians involved in making transit decisions aren't thinking of that yet. Their focus is the Ontario Line, and the Line 1 extension from Finch north to Peel region. It won't be until the 2030s or further ahead before a Line 4 extension east and west is considered a priority.

[@jasons6021]

Crazy that Line 4 is over 20 yrs old and has never been extended! I know that's probably is a bit of a hard sell to most Torontonians when Line 4 has a bad rap as being under-used and "going nowhere." But with all of the transit projects that have been going on in Toronto the last decade or so I believe it's only a matter of time before we see the line extended!

[@watson956]

Agreed. It appears to have been seen as a lower priority to the Eglinton and Finch West projects, and the delays on the Eglinton LRT line have just pushed anything else out to later and later dates.

[@Weaver_Games]

@@watson956 The Crosstown is an embarrassment. Construction started in 2011. It's been twelve years and the end is nowhere in sight. This is a 19km track. The CP railway took less time to build originally. For a more apt comparison, look how fast other countries can actually get stuff built in modern times. Finally the cost of it - The current budget is $12.81 BILLION dollars. For 19km of train track. This means each METER of track will (if the current budget holds) cost $674,210 dollars. This is insane.

[@andrewbest5854]

Brilliant video. I haven't lived in Toronto in many years, but this subway expansion makes so much sense. The Sheppard subway was hobbled from the beginning due to its short length, and failure to connect to relatively nearby major transit hubs. Might have been interesting in the video to explore some of the history behind this. Keep up the great work!

[@bchung100]

Technically if you build out Line 4 east in a straight line you can reach all the way up to the Toronto Zoo at Meadowvale & Sheppard with shuttle buses going to and from the zoo

[@juliussandor4355]

I agree with you expanding the Shepard line should have been done years ago.

[@niaz20]

Thanks. When I moved to Toronto I was quite confused on why line 4 will stop at Shepard East and not go to Sheppard west! (Now that I understand the politics, I am not). I think connecting to future McCrowan station would be better - will help to get more density more density between STC and McCrowan. Similar to Sheppard and Finch.

[@RMTransit]

I don’t think we should make so many regional journeys worse at the expense of getting a bit more transit oriented development! We already have tons of it

[@yoni_rev]

This is such a great idea and you presented it extremely well. Would LOVE to see this actually happen ❤

[@aeropoetry]

I'm visiting Toronto from Vancouver and was thinking this exact expansion east-west of Line 4 would make sense (and was surprised it isn't already under way). Great video!

[@nickbroster5750]

Can the city just hire you already? We need these subway additions yesterday. Great video, thanks!

[@craibinator5]

I could not agree more! Echoing other comments, I think it would make a lot of sense to have a branch of Line 4 run along the CPR rail corridor to Malvern, where it could possibly be twinned with a one stop extension of Line 2. As well, interlining Line 4 trains on the York extension of Line 1 to through run to Vaughn would make for a simple and convenient one seat ride, and be a true alternative to the 400 and 401 highways. Great insight as always, Reece!

[@LucasDimoveo]

We need high speed rail from Toronto to NYC RIGHT NOW

Right now we need to focus on getting high speed within Canada happening first, from Toronto to Montreal. Once done it would be easier to sell a high speed route from Toronto/Montreal to Boston/NYC.

[@LucasDimoveo]

@ To be more realistic a train to Montreal, and nearby US cities would make the most sense. It would supercharge the local economy (if the customs issues could be worked out)

[@annoyed707]

Due to ownership of the rails along the core routes, the better passenger route may be through Ottawa, which is a major destination on its own.

[@_Just_Another_Guy]

​@ Crazy to think that Japan fully completed a high-speed rail from Tokyo to Sapporo (~1000 km) yet Canada could still not fund a similar high speed rail from Toronto to Montreal in only about *half* the distance (~500 km) between Tokyo and Sapporo.

[@elena2125]

We need high speed in souther Ontario.

[@Thiagovnd]

I live near besarion and this video was surprisenly interesting. I'm so happy there is someone talking about that and making such high quality content. Thanks a lot, this was a blast to watch.

[@amjadqureshi4622]

I used to hate taking the bus from Sheppard West to Sheppard Yonge. If you missed the bus at night time, you would have to wait a very long for the next bus to come.

[@Dennis-vh8tz]

My recollection is that the initial plan/vision for the Sheppard was for it run East to Morningside or Meadowvale and connect with a line 2 extension. What got built was what could be funded at that the time, but the intent was always to extend it further East. I think there was also talk of it of it extending further West as well, and even making line 2 and 4 into a single continuous loop.

[@ducttape82]

The original design was more or less what he's proposing in this video. Downsview to Scarborough Town Center.

[@erictang2691]

Reece SPITTING facts once agian😭 For commuters like me who are travelling from Vaughan, getting to that portion of Yonge and anywhere in Scarborough was always a pain with the amount of transfers we have to do or having to loop around on the subway. An west and east extension of line 4 would cut down my travel time immensely and provide a seamless connection to anywhere east of Sheppard west

[@user-js2ce5bn5p]

Love the perspective you've brought and super informative!

[@srbtlevse16]

I would love this so much, it would revolutionise the sheppard line and turn Toronto into one of the most transit friendly cities in North America along with all the other projects. Unfortunately there aren't even plans for this and even if there were it would be years before they start and even longer before they finish.

[@rantingrodent416]

I read that the extension to Sheppard West was pegged at $1.8 billion in the 2020 Metrolinx roadmap, for a "medium" amount of value. I'm one of those who figured the valley is the main barrier to the extension, but I suppose that even a complex bridge project costs less per kilometer than tunneled subway does. Would they retrofit the existing bridge, or jog the track to the side to build a completely new bridge?

[@originalsubwayjones]

Fantastic video, great job.

[@johnl7300]

With more condos being built along Sheppard Ave East, it will only be time before there is enough density to consider the extension to the eastern terminus on Line 2.

[@ICONiacJazzmine]

As someone who travels to York University often by taking line 4. I agree with you! The extension would help a lot with my commute and lower my time. I wait usually 10-15 minutes for the Sheppard west bus!

[@liujun050612]

Line 4, what a mess. They should built directly from Sheppard west to STC as planned in the 1980s. Ended up only built 5 stations due to lack of funds and political issues. Today, it is even more hard to request funds to build subway this long as prices rise dramatically.

[@RMTransit]

Indeed, the original price of the Sheppard subway was actually a steal

[@paulmiller591]

Great Video Reece!

[@RMTransit]

Thanks Paul! It was a lot of work!😊

[@renebatsch2555]

I worked at the Yonge/Sheppard for a few months near the end of it's construction. I liked the Unitarian cement look of the future expansion conclaves on the south side thinking one could have a sandwich/coffee shop with small tables and seats all safety rail enclosed - perfect for waiting to join a friend before going east.

[@bennysparks8584]

Thank's so much for this video. The Line 4 extension is highly needed and should have been a priority for Toronto years ago.

[@PaigeMTL]

I think you really stepped up your game on this video in all ways

[@RMTransit]

Thanks Paige! What a kind comment from a fellow KZbinr!

[@collectivelyimprovingtrans2460]

Maybe we should extend this line to make it the Sheppard crosstown. Maybe from Scarborough town center to Glenfield Jane Heights. The express buses on the route (984, 985) need a boost.

[@RMTransit]

That’s the idea 🎉

[@mendozavancouver5473]

Thanks again Reece on another great one. The detail, presentation and eloquence in which you deliver your content is highly impressive! I always feel like a logistical expert (which I am definitely not), after watching your videos. Hope you continue doing your station focus series. Cheers!

[@cecilhennessy9303]

“Eastward Ho!” The good people of Scarborough have been ignored and denied good transit for too long. Awesome video Reece. Thanks very much.

[@PhilliesNostalgia]

I get it that you’re trying to distinguish between cities at 3:18, but no one here in Southeast PA and South Jersey call it Philadelphia PATCO. The majority of the line is in South Jersey, including stations and trackage. Also, a transit explainer on SEPTA (Regional Rail, Norristown High Speed Line, PATCO, Trolleys, and the Subway) that would be a really fun video because there’s a lot planned for the system, from potential extensions of PATCO to University City, to Roosevelt Boulevard & Navy Yard extensions (hopefully 🤞) to all the improvements in Regional Rail

[@RMTransit]

Calling it just PATCO might not be super friendly to my audience which is super international

[@cammerouge]

Thanks for the video! Question: I notice you sometimes reference pre-covid data in your videos and it always makes me wonder what your take is on post-covid Toronto. Do you expect people to return to in-person work more than they are currently? Has a post-covid world changed any of your thinking about transit priorities?

[@ReemA-it7oi]

Finally someone talking about how desperately Humber college needs a station. Commuting to anywhere near humber and then to toronto is a nightmare

[@kiefershanks4172]

This is a very good idea and surely well worth the cost. The GO Transit version of this would be a new line that parallels the CN York and Halton subdivisions that would run trains between Bramalea station on the Kitchener Line and Pickering station on Lakeshore West and intersecting the Barrie, Richmond Hill, and Stouffville lines with stops for transfers. That would unlock huge potential ridership with a GO grid and not just a bunch of isolated branches.

[@kylecredo]

I really hope metrolinx watches your videos and learns something. Our subway might be one of the best in the americas, but man does it suck compared to the east

[@_Just_Another_Guy]

The TTC being better than the NYC subway in terms of quality (not routes or stations though), isn't saying much considering the NYC subways are almost always filthy except for some of their prestige stations like Grand Central.

[@H5subway5707]

Gonna throw in a potentially stupid idea: to settle the debate of whether line 4 should stay on Sheppard or divert to STC, and whether the Yonge extension should stay on Yonge or divert to the rail corridor, you can build both and turn both of those lines into branch lines, with some trains running along the straight branch, and some diverting to the alternate branch.

[@dalehalliday3578]

great explanation of all the options and benefits.

[@user-fl8rd9qf2s]

Your highest quality video to date...discussion well laid out!

[@carlinthomas9482]

I thought that the trains would continue along line 2 though at McCowan and Sheppard? So if you get on at say Kennedy and Eglinton you could sit on the train until Sheppard and Yonge? I thought it would loop like line 1?

[@namm0x326]

As someone who lives on the sheppard line it's not entirely useless but it sure would be nice if it was extended both to the other side of Line 1 and to close the scarborough loop. We need both, imo, for effective transit along the sheppard spine in the north.

[@RMTransit]

Indeed, it’s not completely useless, but for most trips, it is

[@ltandrepants]

the streetcars get bogged down by traffic - same as in new orleans.

[@jeffmacd1972]

I completely agree. However, with labour shortages in the construction industry, it will probably have to wait until after the Ontario Line, Line 1 extension and Line 2 extension are all done.

[@versita3827]

Totally agree. I commute along Sheppard every day for work and it currently takes me about 1.5 hours. A line 4 extension from Sheppard West to Don Mills, or even further east, would likely save me at least half the commute time.

[@delanoanderson5890]

Biggest problem: Line 4 gets a low number of buses connecting directly to its stations. It would see A LOT more ridership if bus routes connected directly to Line 4 and obviously if it was extended!

[@RMTransit]

it makes less sense to divert a bus to a route that people will have to change off of so quickly

[@NickBurman]

Not being neither Canadian nor Torontonian I don't know the city's commuting habits, but by looking at the data supplied about the ridership of some bus lines and Toronto's geography I would suggest that Toronto extend its subway in a chequerboard pattern, with lines spaced 1-2 miles apart both in E-W and N-S directions and running under the main thoroughfares. Some lines should be extended beyond city limits into surrounding municipalities (e.g. Mississauga).

[@yizhou9978]

Currently Metrolink is discussing the plan for eastern extension to the future McCowan-Sheppard station interchange with Line 2 Scarborough Extension, which if happens, will really increase ridership. The western extension is always a lower priority mostly because there's already an express bus, so Metrolinx uses this as an excuse to stall the western extension.

[@Mepressed]

I love this video. Seeing this line completed on it's own, as you've outlined, would have been exciting - but if it could be done this way along with the new Scarborough extension and the Ontario Line...well, that would just be the pièce de résistance!

[@henrivanbemmel]

To me, the best systems are grid type. Line 4 should have been run from Downsview right over to Midland station and costs be damned, because they only cost more later on and additional costs more than making the original construction bigger. Just build the damn thing and do it 24h a day and get it done directly, not drag it out for 10 years. Same thing with the University subway back in the 1960's They used to shut it down at 8 pm or something. Build it and they will come is really true for transit. Look at the development along Sheppard Avenue after line 4 was put in even though it goes nowhere. Why can't we have some leaders with some vision instead of deciding to build more highways that in less than a year are yet again filled with cars due to induced demand. Why can't they learn that MANY people would like to (a) not have to pay for a car and (b) not have to drive to work if they in their naval gazing could just give them a reasonable choice including cycling routes that actually go somewhere instead of being broken up all over the city. It isn't that hard. Traffic sucks, it kills people, it pollutes the air, it wastes an enormous amount of time for workers ... actually everyone, big roads divide our cities and make walking and or cycling VERY dangerous. Why do the planners still insist on doing our transportation plans in a way that has been shown for 50 years does not work?

[@duanethebathtub951]

Unfortunately, extending Eglinton line so that people can get on planes easier seems to always take precedence over giving Scarborough decent transit.

[@gabrieldsouza6541]

Pearson Airport is also a major regional employment hub for the surrounding communities, not just for people getting on planes.

[@Ventixo]

This is cool because ive been thinking about exactly this for over a decade! Glad to see someone agree

[@jonathanmitchell420]

Another great video. I love stuff like this and respect that you used the ridership of bus corridors to indicate where it's ridership would come from and it's potential to tap into more people in the periphery. Would love to see more deep dives into potential line expansions. Especially Canada and the UK. P.s. have you ever seen the idea a blogger had for Rotterdam metro expanding by 3 lines? You could break down the efficacy of that‽