How To Get More Gold From Gold Smelting: The Matte Problem

Matte is a problem for anyone trying to smelt down their gold or silver concentrates into precious metal buttons. This video shows how to re-process matte to recover the lost precious metals, and also talks about how to prevent it from forming in the first place.
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[@johnhunt2390]

Thank you so much for sharing your research. It is very interesting. I notice two things about your videos. 1) The large number of failed crucibles you experience. 2) You picking up hot, heavy crucibles by their lip. I was always told that was a bad practice, that crucibles at high temps are weak and fragile. Maybe get a set of tongs for lifting the crucible from the bottom/sides like you see every metal caster using for the initial lift. Thanks again for making and sharing these videos.

[@freeman2399]

Always good to see you learning and not afraid to show your mistakes a long the way. The best way to learn is by trial and error, don't let anyone tell you otherwise!

[@paraglidingprospector]

Dood is literally explaining the science behind smelting... amazing!

[@snarky_user]

I applaud your attempts to find the perfect flux recipe. You seem to continually run into the standard problems that divert the process to wet chemistry and electrolysis for economic reasons. I hope you find a viable mix. Having to account for crucible chemistry is a unexpected pain. Regarding the copper sulfides, they are difficult because there will be a wide range of oxidation states. Copper-sulphur compounds tend to be more covalent than one would expect and generally bring other elements into the party. One starts to understand why much of our precious metals come as by-products of copper purification.

[@barryfields2964]

You’re videos reminds me of something my brother told me one time. My brother is a bee keeper. And he said why would I buy honey for $25 a quart when I can make it my self for $50 a quart?

[@chouseification]

basically, this guy is using pyrometallurgy which is fine when used on industrial scales with tight process controls in place to eliminate waste, but it seems really wasteful compared to going the acid route for these little batches. Watch Cody's Lab or Sreetips clean up some gold scrap jewelery and have almost none go missing - that's how you do it. You melt your gold powder with some borax at the end but your chemistry is done long before you're going to the furnace/torch, and you know what your yield and purity is. Why mess around when you can do it the right way :P This guy is mostly guessing on what flux will work (depending on any chemistry that has to happen to free the metal from the current compound it is in) - any wrong guess means lost product.... not good.

[@waynerainey2606]

What’s the initial cost for all equipment for a year to start up vs money lost from my 125k a year job. I guarantee there is no positive figure in there and a hell of a lot more manual work and shoveling. I don’t have a bobcat or a dumper to move the paydirt around with. This is obviously a loosing battle unless you are moving $1000’ s of ton a week to even a day.

[@deltabluesdavidraye]

Very useful and informative

[@deltabluesdavidraye]

@@waynerainey2606 We arent worried or concerned about your job now are we?

[@user-lb8do4ew6k]

@@chouseification You kinda missed the whole point of the exercise, it's experimentation. Sreetips & Cody both have had some videos experimenting with new or different processes that ended in failures.

[@yannickgilbert668]

are you curing your crucibles in an oven before using them? the extra moisture in uncured crucibles could explain then breaking prematurely.

[@woodsoundsflutes]

This is exactly the issue I have been trying to figure out here in Utah. nearly all the gold deposits have a hi amount of copper in them. Separating the copper has been tough. Have not used electrowinning yet though. Have to get some more equipment for that. I really appreciate your vids. Great work and a super honest vid. I loved it.

[@zacharystansell1043]

This was one of the most interesting MBMM vids so far!

[@Gompiebert]

Very interesting and detailed video, keep it up Jason!

[@r0cketplumber]

If the matte by definition consists of sulphides, the first step really seems to be to grind it and roast to convert to oxide. That would remove any need for iron and prevent any chance of making a sulphide matte again. Why do things the hard way?

[@richardrodgers758]

Sweet! I'm in Japan on an Army base and don't have a HOPE of doing any of this or acquiring the machines ... but I'll be danged ... I love this channel. Our host is smart, articulate, and very authoritative. Great for fighting the coronovirus too!

[@michael636336]

CuS + C + 2NaOH --> Na2S + Cu + CO2 Add flour to the mix. Reaction can be done in iron pot.

[@drinventions9742]

I paused just before the blank run,, I already know what’s eating (destroying) the crucibles,, it’s the lye (sodium hydroxide) it dissolves the material the crucible is made of during high heat

[@arronknowlton1382]

Love your videos. Please make a tilting furnace. Seems like it would be much safer and easy to do based on your current simple design. Thanks so much

[@scotthack2632]

Jason, aside from the electrolytic process you could do inquarting to get rid of your copper.

[@tadvanallen]

Looking forward to the electro/copper removal process.. would of never thought, that copper would be a pain in the assay. Ha all new stuff to me. Fun to learn about..

[@tinamitchell6598]

Try thermite , Corey can show you how to add water to make a slurry , then rub on to the unshine shined side of a piece of aluminum, then bake until dry , then roll and squash well , then set on fire.

[@GoldenpaydirtReviews]

Awesome! I have like 15 pounds of hi grade crushed gold ore that’s just sitting in its powder form! Would love to collaborate, send you that material let you work and master your chemistry! It’s filled with gold, copper, iron, zinc, silver, Palladium, platinum, you name of its there! And just send back the recovery and I’ll run a donation to the wounded warriors project

[@mohammadinam9535]

Sir I want any material which contains gold silver pd os ru rh pt and precious metal Material like ore slage pyrite nuggets residue sand tailings etc If any material please send me samples WhatsApp [phone] India

[@mohammadinam9535]

Sir I want any material which contains gold silver pd os ru rh pt and precious metal Material like ore slage pyrite nuggets residue sand tailings etc If any material please send me samples WhatsApp [phone] India

[@skeets6060]

OMG you make my head hurt trying to remember my chem labs!! Good job

[@damxgopak457]

Trying to get this right has been hard.thanks for your info.

[@shaneyork300]

I love to watch these experiments and see reaults!! Looking forward to part 2!! Have a GREAT Day!!!

[@goranaxelsson1409]

Roasting! It's been the way to remove sulphides for thousands of years before smelting. Modern copper smelters use the copper sulphide as a fuel and burns it with oxygen to create copper oxide in the melt, adding ore and roasting in a single step.

[@robertbeighter6336]

MORE surface of the sun shots please! Although I will probably never use the information I have gained watching your channel - i really enjoy being part of the journey. I'm just running a small home made aluminium - copper melter and having a blast but precious metals arent that common in New Zealand.

[@daimitchell5603]

It appears the old timers used nearby quartz veins with known small amounts of gold and silver(not economic to work) as a silica flux with inherent collector metals. the copper matte was then reworked and refined, the precious metals in the tip of the mould were the added values. Smart miners smelted their own ore where possible, a lot of syndicates exported the ore to be smelted elsewhere, most likely being robbed in the process.

[@gingerdude94]

That half hour flew by, really interesting. Great educational entertaining video 👍

[@pixelpatter01]

I really enjoy your videos. Copper Hydroxide does not exist at the temperatures you are using. It decomposes to copper oxide. I'm almost hesitant to ask if you've ever used aluminum (NOT powdered) to reduce oxides in a thermite reaction as it is so energetic. I wanted to also mention an incident where I melted some silver contacts from big relays and metal from the relays and got some Beryllium spring material in the melt. I didn't realize it at the time, and got a bad case of Beryllium toxicity which wiped me out for 6 months. It was mis-diagnosed as Sarcoidosis, only I figured it out later. Stay safe.

[@k_froggy]

fuck thats brutal. Doing better now?

[@onemellofahess]

@pixelpatter01 Aluminum is probably not a great idea to use as a reducing agent because the resulting aluminum oxide has a really high melting temperture and would probably make a mess of the smelt/pour. He did some direct smelting of crushed computer parts with Al heat sinks and it was a mess.

[@pixelpatter01]

@@onemellofahess I see your point. Great reducing agent but the Aluminun Oxide would be a mess.

[@pixelpatter01]

​@@k_froggy Yes. It was over 30 years ago.

[@onemellofahess]

@@pixelpatter01 i was trying to think how he could use another metal. Maybe zinc? I wonder if it would just burn to ZnO before it did anything useful. I also dont know if zinc would play nice with the lead. As molten metals they dont mix, bit i dont know about the oxides and sulfides...

[@jasonsummit1885]

I think I remember seeing your guys company building when on my way to my grandma's place in Sedro Wooley.😁

[@IntermountainGoldRefiners]

Ok so if you have a gold copper metal alloy you can dissolve the copper with nitric acid as long as there is significantly more copper roughly 50% plus you may need to put it on heat for a day or so after it calms down. Electrowinning with sulfate ion works to remove copper too but I haven't tried that before. good luck!

[@shahzadasheheryaralikhan6395]

I'm A Big Fan Of Yours Jason.. Thanks For All The Awesome Videos

[@lucasstanek2845]

interesting that the "blank" flux seemed not to have the convection-cell pattern while cooling. Is that typical, or kind of a one-off?

[@jasonwilliam2125]

no differential to form patterns.

[@DDLMilkshake]

Al2O3 crucs can withstand lye indefinitely, but are delicate to thermal shock. Guessing a quick pour to a temperature PID ramp down, quite slowly. I know Vcella kilns are able to do that function. Also, thickest Aluminum Oxide cruc you can find.

[@intellectualiconoclasm3264]

Honest question @9:30, why didn't you just add micro iron filings to the flux charge?

[@readoryx373]

Copper as collector and charcoal and potassium nitrate as oxidizers and heavy base neutralizers to help pull copper and friends from matte? Add iron after matte is already molten so the hydroxides can interact with as much copper as possible first?

[@benlee4940]

Have you tried adding sodium carbonate (washing soda/soda ash) to your flux? Its cheap, keeps the flux alkaline, and reacts with sulfides. It's a pretty standard component in commercial fluxes. Great video as always!

[@chuckbaker1687]

Very sweet my head hurt too but i love you info

[@stevetreloar6602]

Hey Jason, as always I love your work but recently you seem to have ramped the quality up even further! The other thing I like about your channel apart from the obvious (the content) is the comments, presumably from subs (?) who seem a little more intelligent than the usual crowd!!

[@markselten4985]

Love your work. Thanks for sharing the information.

[@frankromero5581]

Maybe the outside temp is too cold for the crucible . maybe you have to warm it up before you put something in it.

[@GrooberNedJardine]

Very interesting Jason , just wondering with your second last smelt what happened to the iron , ( steel ) punchings , did they melt ? because there seemed to be nothing left in your crucible when you poured it out , but i enjoyed watching the vid , always learn something . Iv'e got some ore that i am going to have a go at processing soon , it has high content of chalcopyrite visible it will be interesting when i come to cupelling the lead prill , i'm keen to see how it all goes . In the mean time i always watch your vids and learn something new , thanks mate cheers .

[@Chuxgold]

Could guess all day long on why anyone would not like this video? Maybe try watching somthing you understand or need. Me I'm working beach sand this summer. And can work most all the gold out? But know more exzists that will not break out of the cohesion in separating. So am looking to try and melt it out. And up untill watching these videos? I thought the baching was too complicated for a head without any math in it. But now see I can just exspearament untill I get it right. As I am not dealing with many sufides with beach sand. So it should be easyer than I ever thought. Thanks for the bit of light. As the days are harder when waiting thru them with IBS. Most would have hung it up by now? But I'm a true prospector. The hunt made me who I am. And thats eturnal. Made from all the scars I have earned from searching for it. And not all of them in the field? As when you can't get to the creek? You bring the creek to you. I now have had 25 years of building and thinking to advance my prosses. What I fight with too see a new day. So could say I have been minimg my IBS? As it gave me the chance to not just settle for the simple. My invention moves from collection to final cleanup of mico fine gold. Without any batching of anykind. I use boards and rockerbox's. Alien devises to most. As most dont even know what makes them work. Even if they have one. As I'll bet it does not have aprons. Whats supossed to be in the upright tower of a rocker. That only has a screen in the modern, simplified version. And would have done a video by now. Better than the crap one I have on my channel. But it does show a apron. Just then I was trying to sell a rocker version. So it was about strength and durability. Not function. I will have something out this summer. After what came out of it is realized as my invention. As I have taken it to a ultimet limet. And even though never worked? I know gold. Espesialy micro fine gold. Between the rocker and using a board in the final clean-up? A 90% recovery is posseble with no complicated tricks. Like using chemicals or firing. But do see now that with firing? A 100% recovery is totaly doable. Without much more effort. And mean 100%. As so many claim it. But for what they are prompting it does not have the physics to work that good. You can't force micro gold into concentration. And water tension is the enemy. Not a ally.

[@benjamn4644]

Appreciate the videos Man

[@alvinjastrzebski3270]

Hi Jason, I have a problem that would probably make an interesting video. Is there enough silver in fridge filters to make them commercially viable to recycle? Great videos!

[@briandrew2689]

Bro love your video's i have recently had a kiln built because of your videos i just need a rock crusher now!😎

[@dennishall3370]

Where can I send a gift to help?

[@ewonaovat2258]

Your teaching skills commendable, but where I am those equipment are hard to get I have good amount of silver and gold ore, you could be of help

[@Alrik.]

Very interesting, thanks a lot! :D

[@EddieSchirmer]

so, do you stock pile your potentially gold bearing tailings and or fluxes and matts and whatever so you can re process in more economical bulk some time?

[@vahagnmelikyan2906]

I bought a book of chapman smelting it says I need to have at least 50% of gold in my concentrate to be able to get a button in the bottom. But I don't think there are many high grade ores like that. I wonder if the difference is that dramatic between using collector and no collector.

[@bk1753]

Hi, I have metal which shows 94% lead and 6% gold. How do I go about extracting gold from such a mix.

[@ynalalkhalil6326]

why you don't use an XRF device to examine your matt or slag ??

[@johannesdesloper8434]

I have no hands on expierience in this craft but I can do a little theoretic physics. Aren't you heating the crucuble and content too fast? The crucible will heat up faster on the outside with convection heat from the burning gas in the furnace. The content will heat up slower so there will be a temperature gradient over wall of the crucible. The temperature gradient will probably be proportional to the mechanical stress in the wall of the crucible. So if the temperature gradient is too large the crucible will crack. By your experience... probably the Sulfides either have higher heat capacity or a lower heat conductivity and that's why you notice more crucible cracks with this material... I did my best... hope you get something from it.

[@lj7862]

The temperature of gold melt is 1064 celcius don't go higher of vaporising can occur and copper melts at 2000 c I've always wondered how else I could send it else where like lead and zinc draws silver into zinc fyi also I hear that chloric acid bathing shines gold and hot hcl , or mercury retort method

[@rorywatson9537]

Hi Jason I have been enjoying watching your videos and now I have started smelting some concentrates I have collected and I am unsure how long I should allow the material to stay in the fernace ... what would be an indicator for me to start my pour from the crucible is it the look of the molten material or is it a pure set time .. ? Look forward to your response

[@pirobot668beta]

Lye will etch glass at room temps...

[@OwlTech333]

Thank you!

[@mbmmllc]

Thanks Owl!

[@vahagnmelikyan2906]

Do you have experiment where you smelt concentrate without lead collector vs with collector?

[@RalphReagan]

Am loving this video

[@frankenscience3553]

Thanks this is good. What if you asked a metallurgist or mine smelter to help? Down the track I would love to see you do a smelt with a 60kg crucible around 10 litre capacity, about 3-5kg of suphide concentrate at a time.

[@izysly1462]

Where did you learn all this?

[@TheMontyYoakum]

Would there be a way to chemically treat the matt to covert or remove the copper sulfates before smelting?

[@TeamStevers]

What is the return when you subtract the fuel and electricity and other equipment?

[@bryanwatrous9385]

What is your go to Flux mix and ratio?

[@MrErikm]

Jason how do i get one of those cone molds.?

[@chucklotro8749]

Can you deal with chlorides using the same process or would it differ?

[@richardbeee]

Convert the matte to copper metal which can then be used as a collector.

[@ynalalkhalil6326]

what do you mean (lye) ??? Sodium carbonate or Sodium Hydroxide ???

[@katecoombes1000]

Is your cone custom made or brought from someone?

[@parkertoolman9759]

I nelieve you need ferric oxide to break the Copper sulfide bond and more then likely an oxidizer to. Just an educated guess 😀

[@WildBill4u]

Where did you get the iron cone mold?

[@ahedismaeel7423]

I have just one question plz what is the allay or alie ? you said many times : i will add alie? is it the washing soda ?

[@doaaalmakhlafi9558]

الغسول المسمى الشائع لهيدروكسيد الصوديوم

[@syahrilariel235]

Bagus mister sangat membimbing terimah kasih

[@karmakarsujoy4803]

Where is part 2

[@chuckcrunch1]

Nice!

[@MADDLADO1]

Note: If having problems with failing crucibles, check mfg stamps for, Made in China.

[@WolfgangBrehm]

Try aluminum powder!

[@mincarelleonostri4350]

Shaloms ! !

[@mohmadborhan4388]

Try to melt using oxygin tourch .

[@ikhffolo63]

حبذا لو تكون الترجمة للغة العربية مرفقة خلال الشرح سياعدنا على فهم الطريقة.شكرا مسبقا

[@doaaalmakhlafi9558]

موجود ياااخي باختيار الترجمة بالفيديوا ، هذة البناة روعه لوجود الترجمة لاغلب اللغات❤

[@ikhffolo63]

@@doaaalmakhlafi9558 شكرا اخي

[@BillMulholland1]

🍻👍

[@renegaytan5660]

Eres la verga the best

[@mikemullenix6956]

You must spend a fortune in chemicals doing all these experiments

[@محمدزايد-ب7ث]

اكيه

[@sukamto0820]

Mr. Terjemahkan ke bahasa indonesia

[@cocorbebek541]

Indonesia translate pls🙏

[@user-cw7fy5ui3c]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍✋✋✋✋✋

[@gopro_audio]

Expose the molten metal to 590 hertz tone during the pour and cooling, when cooling in the cone mold, the movement you see is controlled by frequency. Establish frequency exposure to control and compel the matte.