How to grip the military sabre in historical fencing

[@scholagladiatoria]

Thanks. The ways of gripping the singlestick are exactly the same as for the sabre - if the basket is big enough then you can put the thumb up. If it isn't then you can't. Basket-hilted swords were generally held with the hammer grip or with the 50% thumb up (the side) grip shown in this video, because they do not have space to put the thumb up the back of the grip.

[@CheyenneAmen]

You have great videos! & I love your shirt!!👍🏿

[@NoBaconForYou]

I've been training with an old synthetic saber my friend left behind, but I've been holding it thumb up. My forearm is very sore. Good to know that the hammer grip is in line with my Hungarian heritage. It's much easier.

[@GdzieJestNemo]

I'v just watched a video of polish swords maker (/watch?v=ngD_GCevxcY ; in polish though) and he says griping a saber with thumb up is wrong for cuts as it (1) leaves your wrist vulnerable and (2) it's just a way to get your thumb broken (he derives that from cavalery use of the saber, where you are galloping on a horse at ~40 km/h and try to cut someone - griping it with tumb up will just either disarm you or break your thumb). The thumb up grip however works for thrusts. despite the lang, i believe you can understand what he means from what he is doing TL;DR: hammer grip for cuts, thumb up for thrusts

[@allengordon6929]

I do something similar with arming swords and dussacks.

[@15thdoctor40]

My sabre is much heavier and resembles a cavalry sword so requires a hammer grip for speed and agility. Thanks for the video it helped me a lot!

[@MorangRus]

Have you ever encountered late 19th century Italian cavalry sabres (1871/1909 trooper's, 1873 officer's)? They have grip design proposed by del Frate, discussed by Burton in appendix to "New System of Sword Exercise for Infantry". Guard has cavity at the back, allowing the thumb to "pierce" the plane of the guard and index finger to rest against the guard when using thumb grip, theoretically bringing point of balance closer to hand and reducing momentum of the guard relative to hand. Do they really feel better than other comparable sabres when thumb-gripped?

[@dryfesands1367]

Absolutely love your videos! I'm someone who used to fence at school and is keen to get into HEMA fencing, particularly sabre. Unfortunately, and rather carelessly, I managed to lose half of my third finger in an altercation with a dog. The grip is still perfectly fine aside from missing the last joint on that digit. With that in mind do you think a thumb up grip, where most of the blade's action comes from momentum generated by the lower two fingers (in which I am now partially deficient) would be tenable for me? Or must I hammer all the way? Cheers!

[@karlenglewood8940]

The M1829/1840, there is a trick to using this sword. I have an example where the user used a half thumb grip, where he grips with the thumb on the side of the guard thumb up. Works very well, but takes time getting use to. Btw you have a large hand compared to Frenchies from almost 200 years ago.

[@ClergetMusic]

Starzewksi states that the ring on the Polish sabre is not for the thumb but for the first finger. This is indeed confusing because if you look at Polish sabres and the way they are constructed, assuming they are made for right handed users, it would appear that the ring is for the thumb. However Starzewksi says otherwise in his treatise.

[@MFinGonzo]

Do you have a recommendation for a saber for HEMA? I searched your channel but nothing came up. Thanks in advanced

[@thomaswillows306]

I would recommend studying some of polish sabres :) I hope I'll see some of it in Your channel. Great tradition and craft/skill stands behind middle Europe fencing :) Regards! Ps. Great kit You've got!! Love it!

[@thelonerider5644]

Question, Mr. Easton: are the practice sabres that much lighter than full replicas (even allowing shoddy distal taper on the reps) or is there just a big learning curve no pun intended? A lot of stuff done with a practice sabre feels awkward as hell with a sharp one... Thumb up while thrusting, handshake grip etc. while cutting. I tried cutting with a full weight repro sabre thumb up it was not fun, got more or less swordsman's elbow - like tennis elbow from the sword lol.

[@NewTypeIII]

Hello, would it be the same for holding a Cutlass about 30inch in total length and about 2lbs 4oz? I've been having trouble cutting with mine, it's probably due to the edge alignment, but I just want to be sure before I start building nasty habits, thanks.

[@Johnnysthunder]

I have a hard time doing moulinettes or cross cuts and one or two other things with the thumb up grip. Do you use moullinette type of cuts in your fencing much ever? And if so how do you do so with the thumb up grip? Do you temporarily adapt a different grip as I do?

[@Hrafnhistorical]

I've recently started fencing with an 1827 pattern using that grip, and I'm fighting against a 1796 light sabre. The 1827 with the thumb grip completely dominates the centre lines and stops big cuts dead on the forté, but his cuts are far more powerful than mine and it's so hard to compete with them and it's really difficult to do with the thumb grip. In my (limited) experience I think if you're able to use a thumb grip on a sword it's not all that likely to be a sword that packs a big punch when cutting so I'd stick to that grip and thrust with it - but yeah, like you, when I really do need to start swinging it around then it's hammer grip all the way.

[@Wilderness_Tv]

Hello, do you know good (sword) military sabre manufacturers that make real swords that can be "battle" used? Thanks in advance.

[@WolfKenneth]

With thumb ring you dont allways put thumb in it (some even have this ring too small to do this) sometimes you rest it on, having a grip somwhere in the middle of hammer grip and thumb resting on backstrap. Side note: polish saber karabela type is designed for thumb on backstrap grip and hammergrip is not comfortable.

[@MorusAlba1975]

Yeah, I came to this video because I just received my Heavy U.S. Cavalry Saber, and it seemed inconceivable to me that someone would use this with the saber grip. Also, my thumb kept hitting the hilt so I was wondering whether my hand is perhaps a bit too large. I'll continue practicing with the hammer grip from now on.

[@tsinaropouloschristos593]

1840 pattern?

[@Halinspark]

In your experience, how well does the thumb half up grip work with heavy sabres? I have a (cheap) Us Civil War cavalry replica I was thinking about practicing with, and it has a rather thick, heavy blade.

[@scholagladiatoria]

It depends on your strength relative to the weight/balance of the sword. It is safest to start with the hammer grip.

[@Tyler_Lalonde-]

scholagladiatoria​ how much more force do you think it puts into the cut with the hammer grip with the best elbow then the sabre one? Also if it was taught by the British and French would that be the reason. To get a better cut? 

[@Tyler_Lalonde-]

So the cut would go through something like Jackets or other fabrics.

[@Aniara64]

Here on our sabre, we have a decorative hand-strap attached to the hilt (we call it a portepé). Apparently, it was supposed to secure the hand to the weapon. Do you know about how it was used?

[@Peldrigal]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/o4emgXyvqc-fra8

[@MPPRODUCTIONSger]

What about the handshakegrip? And could you recommend some good practice sabres?

[@Johnnysthunder]

He mentioned the hand shake grip, that's the grip e was referring to when he spoke on the polish style grips and thumb rings etc. good practice sabers espoecially steel gym saber types can be hard to come by especially in the us. We don't have much access to European makers in general unless you go through a middle man here or wait Really long times. if your in Europe all sorts of makers to browse through, if your in the states and don't want to get one made for you ad don't want to use synthetics the cold steel Hutton style practice saber and the hanwei are all that's really available under the price of the darkwood armory Hutton or Raedelli if your going from Italian dueling saber sources. Hope that helps!

[@Johnnysthunder]

P.s. the darkwood sabers are fantastic. Wee pricey though at 250 I wanna say or something like that. Hanwei huttons are usually around 120, precaro and raedelli styles being a lil more. The cold steel I've seen any where from 80 to 150/60 but average is 120ish.

[@cqc75]

Really great video :) Would you consider doing one about singlestick?

[@MrUncleTings]

is there any school that teaches the grip like how a lot of schools in japan teach how to hold a katana? sorry i seem like a japanese sword nerd but its the only method i know from the clubs from my university and the way they teach how to hold a katana, one handed or two handed, is sort of like the final grip you showed with the tilt, but to also twist the wrists inwards. this would make the hand look like it was in a position to throw something, like a dart. so basically it would feel as if you're pushing the sword with your index knuckle. i dont know why the katana grip developed to be something like that because at first it feels very terrible and awkward. it does however provide good leverage and stability.

[@themadrazorback2019]

I have an excellent resource, if you message me I can email it to you. It is a Toyama Ryu document.

[@Tyler_Lalonde-]

scholagladiatoria I know this is personal choice but why so you cHoose to cut from the wrist instead of using the elbow like it was taught to the military. I assume it's for the speed in the cut. since cuts don't do so good against cloth did they use the elbow to give the cut s better chance to cut and impact?

[@scholagladiatoria]

Tyler Lalonde Cuts from the wrist were standard in British and French military sabre, as well as some German and Italian schools. Cuts from the elbow expose your sword arm to a time cut. They are fine if you have just defended, but silly as an opening cut. "Like it was taught to the military" - No, wrist cuts were taught to the military as well as cutting with the whole arm.

[@Tyler_Lalonde-]

scholagladiatoria​ they were taught but what was used more? Also I think it depends on how they and you attack that opens you or them up? Were they taught to attack first? If so how do they defend if both guys attack around the save time. Which is why I prefer to move offline as I attack. thanks for replying!

[@moglinmarine]

scholagladiatoria Do you know where one may procure a sword, hopefully a saber in this case, safe for beginning historical fencing in the United States? Also, do you know of any historical fencing clubs in the United States? Thanks, I thoroughly enjoy your videos.

[@jellekastelein7316]

Good shirt!

[@andrewshute9761]

Thumbs up for Burton!!!!!!

[@jason60chev]

Please repeat the part after, “Listen carefully”!

[@수아레즈1919]

In real combat, if you use your sword with your thumb resting on the top of the handle, you are very likely to drop it. And you can't hit or stab your opponent hard in that way. That kind of method is only possible with light fencing swords. When using a heavy combat sword, you should never use such a gripping method.

[@lawrenceleekaryeung]

in warfields they might broke their thumbs...

[@lawrenceleekaryeung]

they might tie up the sword with hand would not fall from hit of arms and others parts of body

[@lawrenceleekaryeung]

Lawrence Lee regarding open channel not well self mental control readers ( such as children, teens... ) would be danger for they to read and learn

[@DJ-eg1zg]

Lawrence Lee Sorry please explain?