HOW TO INSTALL A THERMAL EXPENSION TANK ON WATER HEATER

Join me today as i bring a water heater up to code and show you how to install a thermal expansion tank!

[@avag1334]

Don't you need to check the air pressure in the tank to match the water pressure coming into your house?

[@mikemaggs3273]

Wondering the same...

[@Nokout626]

You definitely have to..

[@JohnRidersoldoutforjesus]

Yes

[@Runflatred]

Of course.

[@chadpayne2472]

How do you do that ?

[@beaunhead]

Wish you would've shown the soldering... Great video, good detail and explanation

[@saranjesse23]

Excellent job explaining the steps and why you’re doing what you’re doing! Thanks.

[@barryrosenthal7337]

didn't ream the copper pipe after he cut it, didn't change that old shut off valve with a new better ball valve, didn't test water pressure to make sure the expansion tank matched with air pressure.

[@wcsd9577]

and no dielectric unions, and used type M copper

[@chrispinette8303]

They are dielectric nipples coming out of heater

[@forextrinitrader]

@@chrispinette8303 do Rheem water heaters use dielectric nipples? I installing a AO Smith and the manufacturer says dielectric unions are required.

[@forextrinitrader]

He probably did it off camera, it hard to video everything thing when on a actual job.

[@pipingdogtooth]

@@wcsd9577 How can you tell it's not type L or K?

[@johnblack2427]

Good video how though it was more about the copper than the actual tank. Did you add air to the tank, and what is the pressure in the tank installed in relation to the pressure in the plumbing system?

[@RoyBaty]

Old school. Thanks for showing how it's been done for 100 years. Too many videos show the new compression tools that most of us can't afford or the shark bite pieces that are expensive. This is cheaper and with a few plumbing tools and practice most of us can master this method. One thing, show us your soldering. Some people don't realize you need to heat the elbow, not the opening. When the entire fitting reaches the correct temperature the solder will be drawn all the way in.

[@johnhuggins5021]

I noticed you did not install a strap to the expansion tank to support it using the surrounding the wall. Has it been your experience that doing this step is not really necessary even if the tank fills with water, empties, fills, empties, etc. several times over its lifetime? Oh, and does it matter whether or not the schrader valve end is at the top of the tank or at the bottom? Or that depend on the manufacturer's recommendation for the install? Thanks for any feedback.

[@BearNorth2838]

Great video.. Per codere you supposed to add supplemental support to that tank?

[@timc1341]

Great vid Tim Expansion tanks are not required by code in florida unless the house is a "closed system" i.e. some sort of check valve or backflow preventer is in place inhibiting the expansion of the hot water back into the distribution system.

[@homesteadhaven2010]

Not required in Southern Mississippi..

[@Travis-bu6yo]

Did you not ream the pipe after you cut it?

[@Real_Rob_Reels]

Did you debur the inside of the 6" pipe you cut so you don't get turbulence? Also, you never took the house water pressure and adjust your expansion tank to that pressure. Always a good rule of thumb to check pressures before the install. Most 2.5 gallon Exp. Tanks come at 50 psi but it's shooting in the dark until you get some hard data.

[@adolfomares23]

Whi didnt u use a union? With another nipple going to the water heater? I think it'll look cleaner...

[@sonshenshomestead7668]

Is it necessary to prep the water expansion tank with pressurized air first?

[@amarinayat8879]

Excellent video, thank you! I have a couple of questions.... since I am planning installation in two locations in attic, one with very limited space.... 1. How far from the inlet side can an expansion tank be installed. Say, would it serve its purpose if I ran a 10 foot pipe from the inlet and installed the expansion tank sideways, or upside down? Shouldn't the air valve on the tank be easily accessible for maintaining pressure? 2. How do you size an expansion tank for a 40 gal vs 75 gal water heater? 3. How do you feel about using pex instead of copper? Thanks in advance for your help.

[@Resq28]

Great questions, I wish he would get back to some of these questions because I need the answers as well. Thank you for asking them.

[@jgg204]

The water heater will fail well before 30+ year rated sharkbite ever will. And when the water heater fails, you just replace the sharkbite valve flex lines with it like you would a dishwasher or a washing machine. In and out replacement in less than 30 mins

[@josem2468]

You hire a hack if they use Sharkbites. Only for homeowner use.

[@jgg204]

@@josem2468 and this is a home, you moron

[@garygray4664]

Sharkbites are fine. I personally wouldn't use them right at a hot water heater but about 16-18 inches away would be better.

[@grow8094]

I I am a plumber never use shark bites There’s way better stuff to use I agree with the guy make the video you don’t use shark bites If the homeowner wants to use one that’s his choice but if you’re paying someone to do a job they should do it right

[@jgg204]

@@garygray4664 they are rated for 12" away from tank nipple

[@5tr41ghtGuy]

Just what I needed to see today to get a new heater installed. Thanks so much for posting!

[@strongsadventures]

Thank you for taking your time to show this Tim. It is hard enough to do the Job fast and most important the right way so i will say this thank you for sharing how to do this. Ain't gonna be no leaks if you did it.

[@rickjames6948]

Check house water pressure. Adjust thermal expansion tank pressure accordingly. Do this with the hot water tank with zero pressure inside it. Don't want water pressure pressing into the thermal expansion tank fudging the thermal tank pressure.

[@PetePuebla]

In my opinion I think you're right about securing it snugly. I don't think you have to use a wrench. You just need a good seal.

[@howardbardwell1265]

Do you air up the bladder on the expansion tank? I thought it needs to be aired up to 60 to 75 psi.

[@pallsmortion4750]

Great job, in the UK we need to fit a pressure regulator on the inlet, do you not need to? Thanks

[@estuardoerazo9998]

Isn’t a vacuum breaker code in Florida?

[@Honestandtruth007]

Just Subscribed for your Expertise 👍👍

[@keithcastleberry3993]

Dont use shark bites but let's screw copper fittings to galvanized pipe to promote electrolysis. Nice.

[@chrispinette8303]

They are dielectric nipples with plastic cores

[@pxxexxs]

He is using dielectric nipples he talks about the plastic in them.

[@nikkogarcia7104]

You didn't charge up that expansion tank with air matching the pressure to the incoming water supply. That tank on there isnt doing anything useful without a proper charge.

[@PLUMBINGWITHTIM]

I’m glad you guys mentioned this as I realize that I left this step out. I will be doing a follow up video about this critical step. Thanks for watching!

[@darienlandry3244]

Nikko Garcia those typically come precharged just saying

[@coachmattc]

@@darienlandry3244 Not enough. Needs to match the system pressure.

[@brandonmunsin9310]

lil tip, they usually always come pre charged @20lbs.. an easy way to figure out what to charge up too, pressure test the house , thtl be your # then use air compressor. never charge passed 80lbs. usually 50 is where it’s at.. yes most people don’t charge them, makes it pointless to have if not charged... anyways good vid! keep it up man, stay positive! im an commercial/industrial plumber. plumb everyday on big systems , an no matter what you do somebody will always have something to say lol everyone thinks they know it all, an most likely really don’t know shit ..wish people were more positive

[@pipingdogtooth]

@@PLUMBINGWITHTIM Can you provide a link to the update?

[@pepelepew158]

Thank you.!!!!! This helped me out a lot. Awesome video again ty so much for taking the time and explaining it step by step.

[@Gary-vq4ht]

Test water pressure and fill expansion tank with correct matching air? Hold second wrench on the copper threaded fitting to protect soldered joints when tightening

[@Silvertheta]

Do you need to add air into the expansion tank or is it preloaded with air already? TY

[@buck3093]

Shouldn’t there be a couple Dielectric Unions on there? (Going directly from copper to galvanized)

[@PLUMBINGWITHTIM]

Good question. Back in the day when water heaters had galvanized nipples These days they are made from a different alloy so it’s no longer required

[@buck3093]

PLUMBING WITH TIM That’s good to know! Thanks :-)

[@nadeemmian7750]

wondering why you install expansion tank on the cold line. should it not be on the hot water line ?

[@jackjones1727]

To replace the heater, you have to unsweat the joints. Is that normal?

[@diezak2990]

Should have used dielectric union to go from galvanized to coppers I'm an HV AC installer replacing water heater and furnace for realtor selling house I replaced water heater today in a tight spot old house with galvanized fittings and I didn't like came out because I had to install the expansion tank before the shut-off should I change it

[@williammorris3303]

Can the expansion tank be to far away? I did a hot water tank , electric 40g tank , closed water system so I put in a 1.5g expansion tank, pumped it in the same way I always do. T&p valve blew as soon as the tank came up to temp. I thought how crazy that a new tank had a faulty valve, so I changed it. But it still blew the valve.

[@RichRich007]

how can you put a wrench on there to "snug it all the way up" when its soldered in place?

[@mitxchellmitxchell6564]

where are you located I'm in central Florida and needing of an awesome plumber like yourself.

[@PLUMBINGWITHTIM]

I moved to western Kentucky

[@kawaiibtslover1012]

No hammer arresters required in Florida?

[@nathanoj894]

Isn't red copper type M a thinner gauge?? Or is that type L ?? I'm from California and we use blue copper type L cuz it's a thicker gauge and also cuz hot water is unforgiving. Just a thought thanks for vid.. type M is OK for pressure relief valve

[@Monkeymanxxl]

What state are you in? I don’t think this will pass inspection in California but I am not sure

[@PLUMBINGWITHTIM]

Florida

[@Monkeymanxxl]

Thank you for your quick response, nice work looks very clean. After my comment I watch the video to the end and heard you say Florida, California is a pain in the ass

[@BillAnon]

How do you tell what size expansion tank you need?

[@neogeo8267]

No dielectric unions?

[@brianrobertson1211]

Did you ream your pipe?

[@jamesrecknor6752]

Good teaching ability

[@tty3146]

I have 2 heaters and expansion tank for each. one has pressure 55 psi and other has 75 psi. system pressure is 60 psi. Recently I am getting warm water from cold faucet. I changed tub cartridge but still getting warm water. What can be the issue? Faulty heat trap?

[@joecarini9958]

Very informative..however, not sure if the music background was necessary, a bit distracting.

[@MonkeyManMechanicals]

no dielectric unions or unions at all???

[@stevenmott4158]

Christopher Segar why would he need a dielectric Union he is using all copper not mixing metals

[@darienlandry3244]

Steven R Mott he is mixing, you cannot adapt copper to galvanized without having brass in between it, flexes or dielectric unions, Electrolysis is real my friend, and Code

[@stevenmott4158]

The nipples that come with the water heater are not galvanized

[@stevenmott4158]

Heat trap nipples are already dielectric

[@footlongburrito]

Its not about being dielectric anymore it's still code to use unions, now someone will have to cut the copper pipe to do anything... what if he couldn't start the heater because of a issue and had to return the heater and get a new one? Now without unions you can't without cutting pipe. This isn't code

[@desertcamel3573]

where do the expansion tank go hot or cold side? if on hot side what's happens?

[@onemorething100]

Hi Tim. Hopefully you can help me. I've had issues with high pressure in my home. At first I tried to adjust the Pressure regulator but soon realized it was not working. So I replaced it. I set the pressure at 60 and put a gauge on overnight but I'm still getting high readings. It seems to coincide with the HWT firing up. I don't have an expansion tank installed. Can thermal Expansion cause high pressure through out plumbing? My Neighbor said the expansion would only occur in the HWT not the home plumbing and an Expansion tank would not lower the pressure. I have a hard time believing the regulator is bad. any thoughts? Thank You

[@matthewmusselman373]

The rise in pressure starts at the water heater from thermal expansion. But without a place for the pressure to go it passes through the water heater and pressurizes the cold water line as well. They are one common water system unless they are separated by check valves. The expansion tank could help. The pressure surge could be caused by something else also. Quick acting valves like the ones used in irrigation or at your washer machine can cause a water hammer that may give you a high pressure reading.

[@onemorething100]

@@matthewmusselman373 Thanks Man. A few weeks ago Installed A pressure tank and that seemed to correct the problem.

[@jeffreyplumber1975]

THERMAL EXPANSION install tank and call me in the morning!

[@stevie2132]

Not legal in California..you need flex supply lines just in case of a earth quake.wish we can do it that way

[@blueg3027]

Has California ever heard of earthquake straps?

[@drdez]

@@blueg3027 I thought the straps keep the tank from tipping over not the pipes of it breaking because of the flexing of the pipes/house.

[@pj3p488]

Sharkbites in earthquake zones, ok. KZbinr, DIY, and lazy plumbers love them. How often have I gone back to their work and removed the flexes because they went bad and started leaving black goo in their hot water? Quite often. Heater tip, if it has a plastic drain valve it is a crap heater.

[@josem2468]

How true. Needs a full port drain valve.

[@garyteague4480]

I would only ask why you didn’t put a Union in the line so when that heater is replaced it would make it simpler

[@Gabester64]

Thank you going to give it a try this weekend. helped out a lot.

[@eallevato]

I am reading the installation instructions for a BACKSTOP expansion tank and they caution you to install the tank vertically with the air side in the downward position ONLY. Why is your installation backwards?

[@smidjee1225]

Thanks for the vid and info! What size expansion tank do you recommend for a 50gallon water heater? Or does it really matter?

[@jinpark5324]

Smidjee it depends on 3 factors:1 size of water heater 2 your household water pressure 3 water heater temperature setting. Referring to the following doc page 2 figure 1 to find the right size of expansion tank you need. www.amtrol.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/9015-942-01_19-Thermal-Expansion-Tank-IO.pdf

[@fish4food0071]

I call b.s. on the shark bites. They are built to last as long as your hot water heater and in most cases outlive a soldier joint. I have done home repairs and remodels. I have been called to dozens of pipe leaks that were failed soldier joints and only one leaking shark bite and it leaked due to pipe not cut true and or deburred. And you check your incoming pressure before you install your expansion tank so you can pressurize it to match.

[@Grizzleback07]

I have them on several connections that are in the open and not a single leak. You HAVE to debur the pipe and cut it straight like you said in order for them to fully seat and make a good connection. These guys are stuck in the fittings of the 80's when they were not as good.

[@herrickinman9303]

Metal pipes soldered to the water heater would not pass inspection in California. California requires flexible water hoses and a flexible gas hose in order to minimize the chance of breakage during an earthquake. Sharkbite connections are allowed in California. You'll find Sharkbite hoses and connectors at Home Depot stores and Lowes stores throughout the state.

[@dmdx86]

Sharkbites are allowed pretty much everywhere. Plumbers just don’t like them for various and often specious reasons.

[@fish4food0071]

They do not like shark bites because it shorten there time on job that can be charged. So the don’t make as much money!!

[@WinnTeam]

@@fish4food0071 I don't like them because as an Engineer - i see them as less reliable than other options, my preferred is still copper pipes sweated together. Nothing to do with a plumber making more money - everything to do with failure points.

[@kevinh9262]

@@WinnTeam I'm an engineer and I have used them many times. They work great.

[@tick_go5989]

I recently experience corrosion rust build up where copper connection to the steel nipple on my water heater tank. With some quick research online turns out my viewers are correct about dissimilar metal reaction causing the rust. Sharkbite flexible possibly a better option to prevent corrosion!

[@quantumspinup7418]

Can you use silver solder vs regular solder for the pipe connections?

[@globeflicker9216]

Why would you spend that kind of money.

[@quantumspinup7418]

@@globeflicker9216 just more familiar with silver solder brazing vs soldering. Most of my raw materials are from at least a decade ago. Cost is not an issue.

[@globeflicker9216]

QuantumSpin You can use silver on potable, but frankly I’d sell it and make a few bucks (a new roll weighs about a pound) 95/5 is far cheaper. Silver solder is also great for refrigeration lines (Stay Brite #8). Sterling has a silver bearing one that’s half that cost but I would not use it on refrigeration, hydronic heat or potable it’s ok.

[@Scorpiomaj27889]

Hello, any specific reason you don't want sharkbites? Are they not technically up to code?

[@darienlandry3244]

There a hack job

[@dmdx86]

Sharkbites allow DIYers and handymen to do plumbing jobs that normally you’d used to call a licensed plumber for. Sharkbites work and last if you follow instructions. Problem is unskilled people often don’t follow instructions (don’t deburr their copper and/or don’t insert the fitting to full depth) and you end up with leaks and they get a bad rep as a result.

[@kawaiibtslover1012]

No hammer arrestors required?

[@LogginzLyfe]

I replaced my expansion tank today and now I have very little pressure and hot water. Any ideas what’s wrong? I didn’t think the tank had anything to do with that. It was working fine before the replacement.

[@nolantanaka565]

Do you need a check valve too?

[@PLUMBINGWITHTIM]

It’s not required on residential homes

[@forextrinitrader]

Do expansion tanks really need to be 18 inches away from the cold water valve? Is the measured in straight line along the copper and includes that 6 inches up from the T adapter?

[@davidmaddox6829]

Don't you need to confirm the pressure of the new tank before installing it?

[@PLUMBINGWITHTIM]

Yes indeed and I made a video shortly after this one explaining that. Thanks for watching!

[@kokoyhawaii]

Copper is fine and fun to work with, but never had a problem with sharkbite

[@pipingdogtooth]

Will the teflon tape be enough to prevent a reaction between the copper pipe and the expansion tank?

[@PLUMBINGWITHTIM]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/anTIfntuqM5qjbc

[@pipingdogtooth]

@@PLUMBINGWITHTIM Thanks for the link!!! and all the great information!!!!

[@jayham1970]

I was thinking that you had to check the water pressure in the house, and then you had to add air pressure to the expansion tank to match that of the water pressure. Has the design changed in expansion tanks so that that process is no longer needed?

[@kevinh9262]

No

[@Sparkdawg1776]

Beautiful solder joints, wish you would have showed it

[@eduarm1824]

my name is Edwin from Honduras and I love you body. nice job !!!!!

[@MyGodzilla33]

How come you didn't mention put the water pressor air in to expantion tank before put them on?

[@anthonypapa8676]

Can you mount that tank on its side or does it have to be up and down

[@Grizzleback07]

I mounted mine on its side because of room constraints and used strapping to help support it. No problems yet in the past 8 yrs.

[@TheAwesome2626]

Right on! Great video

[@BOSS_805]

Why are you not using di electric unions?

[@timrobinson9897]

Tim Job isn’t done quite yet. You need to check the water pressure from the city coming in. Easy to do just put a pressure gauge at a hose spigot preferably near where the water comes in. Take that pressure and use a small air hand air pump like a bicycle pump to pump up the expansion tank. On the expansion tank is an air valve it looks just like the one on your car tire. The tank needs to be inflated to the same pressure as the city. Otherwise the expansion tank is just a decoration and provides no benefit.

[@PLUMBINGWITHTIM]

Very good point my friend. Thanks for sharing that. Much appreciated.

[@darienlandry3244]

Tim Robinson those typically come pre-charged

[@kevinh9262]

@@darienlandry3244 But you need to match the house water pressure. The tank may only be charged to 20 or 40 PSI from the factory. I just installed one at a house that had 60 PSI. Had to pressurize the tank. If you do not balance it, it will not work properly.

[@davew657]

The info I'm looking for is a bit more involved. For instance, if you check your pressure with a gauge, are you getting a true reading if the water heater just heated up and is pushing it's thermal expansion back towards your gauge? He turned off the breaker but that did not cool off the water (in water heater) and thus, did not stop the back pressure of the thermal expansion. So, should you do this when water heater is cold, warm, or hot ? @@kevinh9262

[@914sam5]

Great job, I like to use four 45’s and a 90 after the T for the expansion tank 👍👍

[@martinmoffitt4702]

nice neat and simple!

[@Homepros888]

Is that type M copper you installed on the cold side (red mark) usually type L is suggested for water (blue). Type M is only for heating

[@mastersfan04]

Every service plumber worth his salt uses L pipe

[@darienlandry3244]

You can use M if you want, just not underground

[@SammyEddie]

mastersfan04 is this video for professionals? Doubt it since he shows how to use Teflon tape. Any help is appreciated. I thought copper pipe was copper pipe.

[@mastersfan04]

@@SammyEddie this video is for DIY people, but it's bad advice. Water heaters should be connected with flex lines or unions , and the thermal expansion tank should have air pumped in to match the static water pressure. There are good videos of that. The video is correct about soldering though.

[@SammyEddie]

mastersfan04 so DONT make straight, all copper connections? I was going to redo mine.

[@brianwrynn3109]

My Hot Water Heater has no expansion tank. It is "Indirect-fired", meaning it has no built-in burner but instead the heat source is hot water from the home heating boiler. I guess when the hot water heats and expands, some of the excess hot water flows back into the cold water supply, since there is no check valve to stop it. It is an Amtrol HWM-40 and 20 years old. Is this a problem that needs to be fixed?

[@Freeeeeeeee27]

I’m no expert but whether or not you have an indirect tank shouldn’t change anything. Those tanks have a coil(s) that take in the heated water from the boiler. Thermal expansion will always occur. You mentioned that you don’t have a check valve in your system so you most likely have an open water supply system rather than a closed system which would require an expansion tank. You mentioned your tank is 20 years old so I can’t imagine 20 years of thermal expansion beating up your tank. It’s always good to get validation from a professional (and I encourage it since you are concerned) but it most likely isn’t an issue.

[@brianwrynn3109]

@@Freeeeeeeee27 Thank you.

[@cdyoung976]

I'm guessing if there hasn't been any problems in 20 years, you already have your answer.

[@frankcalvert5612]

What in Florida?

[@hjwang4477]

the inspector said the tank needs to be supported. any idea how to secure it?

[@ericbraunberger849]

Did you use a torch to join the connections or does just the glue do it?

[@PLUMBINGWITHTIM]

All copper solder.

[@Honestandtruth007]

I didn't See When to put Proper air pressure in Expansion Tank 😮😊

[@davedono5508]

You didnt charge the new expansion tank to the existing house water pressure. THAT IS A MUST !!!!

[@kevinscanlon1823]

Where are the dielectric unions?

[@AJCoReTV]

Sharkbite flex tubes work fine for me

[@frankc.5430]

Required in some areas like those prone to earthquakes, not in others. Check your local code before you start and you're good.

[@puppetpatti]

Why am I not getting notifications? Look at you! 1700 subs! You are killing it! Woot!

[@PLUMBINGWITHTIM]

Hi miss Patti. Thank you so much!

[@martywoodrow131]

It would have been great to replace that gate vale with a ball vale

[@themonkeydrunken]

Did you check the house's water pressure, and add air to the expansion tank's bladder to match it? I didn't see that in the video. Remember to read the instructions everybody

[@rajeshgajjar3774]

Expansion Tank which Pipe Hot water or cold water ? The pressure will be creat steam in hot water so expansion tank must go hot water pipe. Please could you check again ?

[@strongsadventures]

I do have a question tank or tanklesss? Your thoughts

[@PLUMBINGWITHTIM]

Thanks guys. That’s coming up soon on another video 😊

[@voiceofraisin241]

Since the water heater has a check valve on the inlet. What good does adding an expansion tank on the cold side do? Also, pink Teflon tape is recommended for fittings larger than 1/2”.

[@kashaftasribatalmiahbialriyad]

شرح رائع جدا ❤

[@thefloridaplumber2631]

I have never put a wrench on the fitting on the expansion tank, just hand tight like you said, never had an issue. I will add my .02 cents and say I would have put a wrench on the female adapter to hold it while threading the tank on. As always Tim great video!

[@MrRemerick]

Thank you, Brother.

[@anthonyesparsen7776]

Is this guy an actual licensed plumber guy?

[@kraftbuilt5245]

Along with explaining how to charge the expansion tank, I think it’s worth mentioning the minimum distance of 18 inches away from the hot water heater that the expansion tank needs to be. You are very close to that.

[@stanpiezuch9922]

Can you elaborate on that "18 inches away" requirement and what is its purpose? Does it have to do with the heat from the flue pipe and the balloon part inside the expansion tank?

[@mariosifuentes5994]

Never heard of that , are you thinking the minimum height of the vacuum breaker perhaps?

[@survivalSC]

There is a code that says pex has to start 18inch from the water heater lines

[@JosephGetchel]

Isn’t that expansion tank mounted upside down?

[@PLUMBINGWITHTIM]

No

[@pxxexxs]

Technically it is. I had a discussion with a coworker about that fact today and we read the manual from the manufacturer and the say to install with threading face up.

[@Nokout626]

Just a question... why type M copper... and not L...

[@mrlukenukem88]

Copper fip should be brass coming off the top of the tank.

[@Unkdrefinest]

It's code that you don't turn the tank upside-down through test it last longer having bleeder facing down. Yeah I know they have been doing it this way for over a hundred years, but a hundred years they all was backwards. You also supposed to check the water pressure to match the tank. Thanks Tim

[@JasonVladimir]

Good show, thanks for sharing!

[@donaldblank8873]

The pressure in the tank needs to be equal to the incoming pressure for it to be functional.