How To Make Perfume like Initio Oud For Greatness

[@rasocker]

I just found you, and 16 min in I have to say that I’ve wished for a channel like this for so long. Thank you for existing!

[@RyanParfums]

I'm very happy to hear that. :-) I love learning to make fragrances, and I just wanted to share my journey.

[@Yshinvari]

Couldn’t agree with you more.

[@ProjectSasquatch]

You're the Bob Ross of perfume, and it's so dam cool!!!

[@RyanParfums]

I’ve received so many comments like this 😂 might have to lean into it 😀

[@ProjectSasquatch]

It's not a bad thing it's super bad ass!

[@wib6044]

Haha. Within 30 seconds of finding this channel, my thoughts exactly. Lol. Now he just needs the fro.

[@TheMindfulJourney-gr9bl]

Thank you for sharing your formulas, it's so frustrating all the gatekeeping in this industry. I understand it in some cases, but sometimes it's just arrogance. So thank you!

[@MrDigitalWorks]

Absolutely love your videos. Informative and relaxing at the same time! Also very interesting that there is no Oud or Black Agar in this formula, just the Cypriol to form an accord. Would be interesting what components actually form the Oud accord in this. Greets from Austria!

[@TheScenticist]

What a great formula! Just a tiny comment as someone having worked in laboratories for 20 years. In order to not risking to mess with the powdery substances you've already in your beaker, you can use weighing papers. Something like butter paper or baking paper. You can even fold them into tiny "weighing boats", containers to hold your powder, and thus weigh each material separately. In regards of the remains in the pipette, you can simply store them upright for a while (e.g. directly taped to the bottle) and empty them when the material inside the pipette has settled down. Or alternatively, you can weight the pipette with the remaining (expensive) material inside and clean it in a certain amount of alcohol, say 10g, weight the pipette back when dry and so you get a dilution with a )more or less) known concentration. If you use the same solution to clean several pipettes (used for the same material preferably ;) and keeping track on the concentration, you don't have to waste the material. It will not be super accurate obviously, but sufficient for experimenting I guess.

[@mochacola72]

Thanks for the info

[@mochacola72]

I use rubber bands to hold the pipettes on the bottle. I have containers with droppers on them ...but it evaporates faster. So I stopped using them.

[@RyanParfums]

Handy tricks! Thank you for sharing :-)

[@TheScenticist]

Yeah, me too, I stopped using them too. Some material even have been pulled up into the rubber bulb and started to disintegrate them. Either the pipettes were really bad quality or it's just what happens with having the pipette as lid to close the container. I currently use HDPE dropper bottles and pre diluted materials (up to 20% in ethanol mostly) for experimenting. Also not 100% ideal, as I get the sensation, that there is a slight evaporation of the ethanol going on, even if the containers are actually resistant to this solvent. But in general, they are ok, if the don't have super thin walls, they are cheap, easy to use and usually I get to refill them quite quickly, as most of them have only a volume of 15ml. As said, for quick droplet-experiments.

[@nousartisanniche]

Thank you Ryan for sharing!

[@csabapargariu1177]

Suggestion: JPG - Le Male Thank you for your videos, very informative!

[@TheScenticist]

Quick follow-up to this formula. It's getting better and better with each day of maturation. Alerady after about a week, I feel comfortable enough to wear it. The Cashmeran has molten in beautifully and with the Veramoss and IES you have a solid base that emits for hours. There also is a lot of room for modifications in various directions. As said, to me, I see it also as a very useful and versatile base, additionally of being a very nice oudy perfume on it's own.

[@CarFanTasia]

You are amazing Ryan. Massive fan 🪭 from London. You are the best thing on you tube.

[@RyanParfums]

You are too kind. Thank you ☺️

[@Majidperfume]

You are amazing ryan, i learn from you 🙏

[@ganstabreakincity]

Great channel

[@TheScenticist]

Regarding to Safranal and Safraleine; I love those materials! They are great in leather accords (together with Isobutylquinoline for example) but also in Tobacco and Oud accords. Super powerful tmho and often seen quite overdosed in various formulas. Big tributes to this formula, wehere it has been used wisely and certainly won't make the accord / base / perfume smelling just from saffron like an oriental rice dish.

[@RyanParfums]

I too love the smell of Safranal and Safraleine. They are easy to overdose. But used cleverly, they are amazing!

[@Yshinvari]

Have you considered making your own fragrances from all your previous experiences with trying to replicate popular fragrances?

[@RyanParfums]

Yes, quite often. Most creations are… not good :-) but I guess that’s the point of continual experimentation. I’ve made a few things I really enjoy. Perhaps one day I’ll cover them :-)

[@jasonolyver6430]

About the pipettes, when I have residue left, and I can't use it for anything being inside the pipette, I leave them in a solvent container depending on the olfactive family the residue comes from, and over time I get pretty complex blends, diluted of course, but the saturation levels of the solvent were never really reached yet so it keeps increasing. And every once in a while, I use them for personal experimentations.

[@RyanParfums]

That’s a fascinating idea.

[@Greentube-ie4ps]

Thnxxxcc sir

[@travelingbearbie8099]

I am amazed by the use of Evernyl in such large quantities in both Oud for Greatness and Baccarat Rouge. Yet they are not classified as mossy nor chypre perfumes. What is the role of Evernyl here?

[@RyanParfums]

Great question. But not all fragrances that have Evernyl or oak moss must be classified as mossy or chypre. Fougere's also have an oak moss note. The Evernyl in these formulas provide a mossy smoothness that complements the amber/sweetness (Ambrox/Et Maltol) and provides a nice powdery edge to the base. Evernyl (Methyl Atrarate) is a remarkable and versatile aroma chemical.

[@travelingbearbie8099]

@@RyanParfums cool, it seems I must experiment with evernyl more. I used to think mossy Chypre perfumes smell dated and old fashion. That’s why they moved on to use patchouli in chypres. Now evernyl has reinvented itself!

[@TheScenticist]

May I add a few thoughts to this Formula? I've just made it yesterday and in general it is, was I'd expect or put into an oudy perfume. IES to lay out the carpet, Cashmeran as the to go spicy woody amber for oud-like vibes, Veramoss to give it depth, Patchouly to color it, Hedione for diffusion and a buch of different modifier materials, woody, balsamic, animalic, ambery and leathery notes, to bring the Oud in whatever direction you want to have it. To me, this particular formula seems a bit too stong on amber material, especially the Amber Xtreme gives me the thickles in the nose and makes me sneeze. I personally would dial that one quite a notch down. Ethyl Maltol is a quite interesting addition and I feel very tented to add a little bit of vanillin to give it more sweetness and depth. Also I had to sub some materials. - Fir Balsam with Pine (Maybe some Elemi would do the trick as well) - Cistus I don't have and just added a bit more Labdanum - Benzyl Acetone with Benzyl Acetate (as mentioned in the Video) Benzyl Aceton thou is fresher than Benzyl Acetate and has a significantly better substantivity (172 hours instead of the 4 hours of Benzyl Acetate), so probably I just could have let the Benzyl Acetate out or maybe I will find another floral-jasminic replacement. - Oud Samrat with Oud Oliffac (Don't have real Oud in my collection, yes, it's so sad... That's probably why I am trying so despertately every Oud formula I can get my hands on, haha) - Cypress Leaf with y beautiful Cypress EO, produced here in Argentina by a small destillery in Cordoba (They also have beautiful Cedar Atlas EO and Cedar Atlas Leaf EO and something called "Suico", which is Tagetes Minuita, apperently a very good fixative and the replacer for the Tagete Oil in this formula) And what was the outcome? Well it's still maturing but in general I like it very much! As said, a bit strong on super ambers to me, but they might ease in a bit over time and won't punch you in the nose so hard anymore. I personally see it more like an Oud Base than a perfume and I am looking forward to modify it and work it into some softer, sweeter woody amber perfumes to give them some nice oudy vibes. Thank you for sharing this and thanks for the channel too! There are not so many sources for Perfumers out there, but artesanal perfumery is coming. Especially here in Argentina is quite a boom starting. I guess more and more people are becoming bored of the dull 0815 design perfumes with a huge marketing budget on the backside and a promient face on the frontside, but rather want to have perfumes which are telling a real story again, and are innovative and creative.

[@RyanParfums]

Thank you for sharing! When was editing the video, I saw the wide difference in substantivity between Bz acetate and Bz acetone. :-/ I wish I knew a better solution for replacing Bz acetone.

[@TheScenticist]

@@RyanParfumsOh, no worries about that. Also to me it would have been the natural chioce for a replacement, as the molecules only differ by their functional group. But yes, it is sometimes really impressive how much difference that functional group makes in perfumery! So, what do do? Keep being creative and never stop experimenting! That is, what makes those demo formulas so valuable. It's not only the recipe to recreate an existing perfume but to learn from them, how to create a perfume! What are the elements of success in this partucilar perfume? How can I use them in my creations? Which material has which function, what can be replaced with what? Sometimes you are mildly forced to use materials, you bought once out of interest and never actually used them. You get to knoe your materials, not only how they smell for them alone, but in action, how they work in a perfume. It's just a beautifully creative art, perfumery!

[@gbi42bce21]

Can you try to do Promise and portrait of a lady by Frederic Malle

[@arios4211]

Bro but let us know you're thoughts about the results! Amazing video

[@RyanParfums]

I do need to do an update video of all the things I’ve created. This one, however, is nice. It’s light, effervescent, woody, balsamic… I definitely recommend whipping it up!

[@arios4211]

@RyanParfums nice thanks for let us know. I did it yesterday, just 10ml obviously I did some changes cause I don't have all of the materials but I look the description on those and use a couple that it's have the same profile. Final results, yeah smell like oud for greatness! Gonna do bigger batch but first gonna let macerate for couple of weeks so I can make the decision or some changes

[@JSepe-ko6pj]

It's always very confusing in these videos that the formula and dilutions in the description doesn't match what the guy explains while adding raw materials to the blend

[@T_Dahil]

This is great Ryan. For how long you let the perfume macerate? Also, have you tried pretty oud? from Firmenich I believe

[@RyanParfums]

Hi! I'm still working on the maceration timing, but a few weeks minimum. I have not tried pretty oud yet. I actually just placed an order for some. :-)

[@TheScenticist]

@T_Dahil Regarding Maceration / Maturation. Maceration to me is an extraction method where you let something solid (Plants, Herb sitting in a solvent for some time and the solvent slowly extracts all the good stuff out. Your very own artesanal basilicum-oregano-olive oil or simply when you tincturing from plants. Maturation is the process where something ages, like a wine, whiskey or a perfume. Particularly in perfume it feels like the bigger molecules, meant to fixate the perfume, getting "loaded" with the more volatile molecules. The blenders spread out and do their work. It's like a new house, where you hace to let the concrete dry out first, before it becomes a stable and safe home for you. That thakes time. 6 weeks at least, if you can wait 3-6 months, the better. When you are experimenting with your own creations, you often need to readjust a perfume after maturation to your gusto or vision / idea ... and let it mature again. As I do mostly personalised perfumes for my clients and not all of them are so patient to wait several weeks, before they can evaluate their perfume, I am often taking the fast lane. My observations: Just after a few hours you can smell how the top notes are settling in. When I experiment with new formulas, this usually is the moment where I already add some more top notes, if I feel they are getting lost a bit in maturation. After a day or two, I feel, you are already about 70%-80% there. This is the moment where I start to adjust the perfume already, when I feel something is missing, underdosed or, well, worst case, overdosed (that is when I usually start to sweat as well). After 2-3 weeks I think you are about 80%-90% there. Usually after this time I present the perfume to mi clients for evalution, do some final adjustments and let it sit for another 1-2 weeks to remature. After that it's ready for bottling and off it goes. We are speaking usually of 1-2 bottles in my particular case, not more. So after 5-6 weeks I am sufficiently confident that my baby is old enough to to mature on it's own. I also keep a sample (of course) so I can get an idea where the further maturation goes. If I would have to produce a bigger bulk of perfume for selling ... Probably I would do it the same way 😂It's just that I am a bit inpatient, that's true. Maybe I would give it 3 months. But I feel, after 6 weeks, you are about 90%-95% there. After 6 Months for sure. What happens after 1 year I would say, is already the beginning of aging, so not the molecules settling in, but some of them desintegrating at various speed, depending how it's stored.

[@RyanParfums]

@@TheScenticist, a couple questions: 1) Do you notice a difference between letting a juice mature, neat, vs maturing the juice in its end stage - fully diluted in ethanol? 2) have you tried speeding up the maturation process (for test purposes) by keeping the juice in a warm water bath? I’ve read that increased storage temperature increases chemical (re)activity in a solution.

[@T_Dahil]

@@TheScenticist yes, it’s what you described. However, it’s a term used in perfumery in replacement of aging and it refers to the aging process of both oils and alcohol.

[@TheScenticist]

@@RyanParfums Hey Ryan, first may I loose some more words about maceration? @T_Dahil did tap into quite a complex and intensely debated topic 😂In perfumery maceration (from latin, macerare, to soften) often it refers to the process of dissolving the fragrance oil in ethanol. But my scientific brain cannot follow that logic completely. In the kitchen, maceration is, when you "soak" for example strawberries in vodka, also getting the good stuff into the strawberry. Or basil in olive oil. Now you want to get the good stuff out of the basil into the oil, an extraction actually. When you tincture resins or herbs for example, you "soften" them in ethanol, again, I would say a maceration, even when no oil is used as solvent. I can imagine that in early stages of perfumery, fragrance oils weren't so clean as today, more like a paste with a lot of gunk which has been dissolved with a solvent (often not ethanol, but actually oil!). So that process, yes, can legitimately be considered as a maceration. Ethanol has been used at a later stage in perfumery and the fragrance oils became much cleaner over time, easier to "dissolve" in ethanol, and that is it, what it is to me when you mix the oil with the solvent, a dissolution not a maceration. Now to your questions, Ryan: 1) Honestly, I very rarely do let the juice mature before I dissolve it in ethanol. As I work mostly with small amounts of perfume and not bulk, I have my materials pre diluted and mix them directly into the finished perfume. What happens when you dissolve your fragrance oil in ethanol (and water; even if you don't add water to your perfume, there is usually about 5% of water present), is a complex choreography of chemical reactions, mainly transesterifications, hemiacetalisations and the formation of Schiff Bases (involves Amines, Ketones and Aldehydes). Most of those reactions are reversible and involve or produce an Alcohol or/and Water, meaning that not all of them will necessairly happen when you age the undiluted juice. Schiff reactions likely will happen faster in the undiluted juice, as the concentration is higher and, actually, the less water is present, the more the reaction leans towards the Schiff Base. So, I can see the idea of maturing the juice before dilution, but assume that all those reactions will happen also in the diluted (finished) perfume. And honestly, uncontrolled Schiff reactions should rather be avoided, thus we're using readily made Schiff Bases like Aurantiol. To me, maturing undiluted juice is a double sided sword. On one side, you'll have faster reactions because of the higher concentration, on the other side, you'll have no reactions at all, because of missing or to low concentrated reaction partners, like Ethanol or Water. Furthermore, the aged juice will mature anyways when it hits the grog, so why bother? But that is most likely me being ignorant and inpatient and I am very open and interested to learn better, just give me some good reasons 😆 2) The idea, or better necessity of maturing a perfume is to reach an equilibrium of all the chemical reactions going on. This depends on many factors. First of all the composition of your fragrance oil, its complexity. Also the solvent, meaning the ethanol-water mixture and other components, and, last but not least, the concentration of your perfume. Then of course the reaction environment is very important, temperature, light, humidity, oxygen. Higher temperatures results in faster reactions, you are totally correct with this, Ryan. So heating up your perfume will make it mature faster, I have no doubts in that. All the wonderful reactions will come faster to an equilibrium and you can enjoy the final bouquet of your creation in no time! Yes ... but ... Also all the unwanted reactions like oxidation and decomposition reactions will happen much faster. Furthermore you have aged your perfume at a different temperature than you store it after. So I can imagine that it might re-equilibrate again, when you cool it down. If it would be so easy, all the winegrowers would age their juice in a thermo tank instead of a cool wine cellar. My suggestion, mature your perfume in the environment you or your customer will store it after maturation. A cool, dry, dark place. Like this you will reach the equilibrium eventually and it will stay that way, at least for a while, until slowly the unwanted reactions starting to happen. Ok, I hope I could shed some light into this quite complex topic. At least, with my point of view which I made peace with. I am happyly using my 3-3-3 rule of maturation. First glimpse of the final perfume after 3 days, good impression after 3 weeks and good to go after 3 months. Have a great week and keep the videos coming please! To everyone who has read my monster comment until here: "You're f***ing crazy and must really love perfumery!"😎 Never stop loving that unique way to express your creativity!

[@TobiasHolen07]

Where do you buy all these ingredients? I cant find any places on internet. I live in Europe

[@RyanParfums]

You can try Pell Wall, Harrison Joseph, Fraterworks, Perfumers World…

[@Jrojas159]

Is this a concentration? Does ethanol need to be added ? Thank you!!!

[@RyanParfums]

Yes. The formula posted in the notes is only for the concentrate. Ethanol must be added.

[@KTLehman75_Fragrance]

You mentioned at the beginning of this video that you are using the pure / 100% concentration of each material. Am I correct in thinking that in other formulas when you use 50%, 10%, or 1%, that decision is a personal choice; perhaps based on previous trials?

[@RyanParfums]

When making this batch, I wanted to make only the concentrate. Therefore, I chose to use the materials neat, except for a few where it might be easier to use them diluted, e.g. Fir Balsam Absolute. Most of the time, however, I'm using pre-diluted materials, often at 10%, to make my test batches. I may use Hedione or ISO E Super neat, but that usually means I'll have a finished test batch at around 15% concentration.

[@boxexa1094]

Where did you get all of your raw materials behind you?

[@RyanParfums]

Mostly from Perfumers Apprentice, Perfumer Supply House, or Creating Perfumes.

[@boxexa1094]

@@RyanParfums Thank you very much, your videos are amazing!

[@TheBernas97]

Hey ryan, question, how much will dilute that blend? To 20%?

[@RyanParfums]

300g of ethanol added will get this to 400g at 20% concentrate.

[@egyptianmauworld2433]

Where do you get your oud supplies from l, as hard to find in the UK

[@RyanParfums]

Mostly American suppliers who source from Southeast Asia. Ensar Oud was the only supplier I purchased directly from.

[@egyptianmauworld2433]

​@@wib6044 Thank you any recommendations to try

[@wib6044]

The Ensar Ouds are limited supplies. So everything I’ve tried is gone. They vary so much and it depends on your taste. One smelled like BBQ and Okra. One smelled like mead. Another was more traditional barnyard. Another smelled like a blend of rose, jasmine and Sandalwood. All of them have that Oud character, especially as they “dry down”, but very unique. Ensar has a channel, along with his site, tons of info and descriptions.

[@victor.o800]

I thought you were going to wear the perfume and review the scent profile on skin

[@RyanParfums]

I could have. However, the nature of the juice 5 minutes after blending is quite different than it is after 2-3 months of maturation. It’d be better if I did a recap video a couple months from now, reviewing the matured juice.

[@realityguy4702]

are notes in perfumery only for marketing?

[@RyanParfums]

I'd imagine so, if describing the smell to consumers (whether true or imagined) is a form of marketing.

[@enriquelopez3524]

Is Hedione 50%? Of hedione 100%?

[@RyanParfums]

The Hedione I use when blending has been diluted to 50% in Ethanol

[@dawoadalyaqoby1952]

You are not following ifra 😅

[@TheScenticist]

No Worries, as long IFRA won't follow you, everything if just fine. Haha.

[@T_Dahil]

@@TheScenticist😂😂😂😂 This is funny

[@RyanParfums]

Haha! This made me lol.

[@brumxi9017]

@ryan Parfums: Thank you for the very instructive video. I have posted the formula to the r/PerfumeryFormulas subreddit, with a hat tip back to this video. Let me know if you find this is inappropriate.

[@RyanParfums]

No problem!

[@mochacola72]

Every time I try to buy Vertofix it's sold out😠