How to make the BEST Infantry Division in hoi4

How to make the BEST Infantry Division in hoi4 | Guide

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@nphax2008 6 ай бұрын

One tip for those who are just transitioning from infantry to tanks when using your tanks make sure to support their attacks with infantry that id manning the front around them so you can get breakthroughs and win battles

@noteno3513 5 ай бұрын

That is only if your tanks are bad, if your tanks are good, increasing the combat width with infantry is pointless since it will make you push more slowly because infantry has less stats, only works if the opponent has few units or you want to get more tanks not infantry into the battle

@FederationUnabhaengigerSysteme 5 ай бұрын

I think @nphax2008 meant pinning „devisions“(it is written wrong)

@nphax2008 5 ай бұрын

@@FederationUnabhaengigerSysteme thank you i didnt notice

@sofartsogood3932 5 ай бұрын

Yep. Pin the surrounding provinces with inf attacks and maybe have some motorised or mechanised divisions with good defence follow your tanks. Leg Infantry can’t keep up with speed of light or medium tanks, so the tanks might end up encircled while encircling. 🤓

@IntrusYT 4 ай бұрын

es heißt foederation@@FederationUnabhaengigerSysteme

@makamore1185 6 ай бұрын

Played this game from release, did not know about max damage and how it used soft attack and organization, thank you 🙏

@user-tq7tk3nt1u 5 ай бұрын

Me the same.

@medievalfarmerstudio4762 Ай бұрын

how did you play for so long without knowing ? If you play singleplayer it doesnt matter just play for fun ^^

@flameguy3416 5 ай бұрын

TLDW: 25 Artillery batallions, Support Companies optional.

@majestic-1273 3 ай бұрын

💀

@DUSTY12X5 Ай бұрын

Too long didn't win

@Link9058 Ай бұрын

Support arty required. Support rocket arty recommended

@justha2143 5 ай бұрын

Had this video pop up on my recommended 5 years ago, this would undoubtedly be a game changer. Way too many people on KZbin clickbait with "this meta-changing division is a must-have" or "this division will change your gameplay" or whatever, but never explain why that's the case. Really well broken down video. However, I am really interested in how you treat line artillery in this video. As far as I know, it's something that I considered a bread and butter in my divisions. Looking forward to your future video explaining why that's the case. I get the argument about how it doesn't make much of a difference on a width to width basis, but the whole reason you're adding line artillery is to maximize soft attack without detracting too much from organization. Maximizing soft attack is key because when your divisions have a greater soft attack than the enemy's divisions, the enemy takes four times the amount of damage to their organization. On a combat width to width basis, you're being less efficient on paper, but with how HOI4's combat works, quality vastly outperforms quantity because of the soft attack defense system. Of course I could be wrong. Again, really looking forward to how you explain how line artillery is bad. And yes, I'm aware that typically you shouldn't be pushing with infantry and that should be more of a tanks' job, but I don't think that detracts too much from the point. Still a stellar video and looking forward to more of your content!

@sumzer_0 5 ай бұрын

Thank you! I am planning on making a full video on the topic, but ill explain it shortly here. The thing you are describing with attack over the enemys is called critting. I think the thing you are missing is that it is ONLY the attack OVER their defense that is affected by this 4x multiplier. What this means is that having 210 attack versus opponents 200 defense average to 200 * 0.1 (from being blocked) and 10*0.4 (from critting). This 20 + 4 = 24. If the last part wasnt blocked it would be 21. Yes, it does help, but critting doesnt suddenly make you deal 4x the damage. Usually its between 1-2x, and closer to 3-4x if you have way more. Part of the reason quality > quantity is a thing is due to targeting, and not due to the extra soft attack. Line artillery has very few upsides. You cant (realistically, no wojtek) get a general with artillery bonus. Artillery advisors are harder to get, and people that use line artillery rarely use any. There are more things im going to talk about, but these are a part of the reason why artillery is a lot worse than people think.

@TheMelnTeam 5 ай бұрын

If you are using superior firepower, adding line artillery reduces your soft attack. It does not increase it. Every time you use more width, you can put fewer support companies into combat. For the other doctrines, only grand battleplan gives meaningful benefit to line artillery from many of the doctrine unlocks. MW and MA give practically nothing, while giving other battalion types significant bonuses. You should generally be producing things that take advantage of the doctrine you're using. Players who advocate 9/x or w/e absent context of doctrine are more or less openly advertising they don't know what they're doing :p.

@TheMelnTeam 5 ай бұрын

@@sumzer_0 You can even just check it using in-game stats. Damage/width with integrated support shows you're penalized by adding line arty clearly. If you could wave a wand and get it for free, you'd probably use it in other doctrines, but it isn't free. It comes at expense of more infantry, support equipment, tanks, or planes...aka alternative options getting full doctrine benefit. It has a niche with certain positions with terrible manpower where you abuse entrenchment to keep enemies from crits in SP. It is pretty good at "width used per manpower" after all, so if you're stuck as non-aligned as part of a cheevo and need to cover a front like Finland vs USSR, stacking entrenchment onto line arty makes some sense. As a general-purpose division, it's pretty bad despite how ridiculously popular it is. Integrated support in SF really does change division comp too. 6/0 using 5x soft attack focused support companies will climb to over 20 SA/width in '42 to '43 timeframe, with plenty of org too. Only proper MP tank divisions with high hardness can hold up to that; it will reinforce meme literally anything in SP and it will do so quickly.

@sumzer_0 5 ай бұрын

@@TheMelnTeam If youre not using integrated support the argument sort of falls together, which is why i didnt use it. The point about it coming at the expense of other industry heavy things is really true tho.

@janbo8331 5 ай бұрын

@@sumzer_0 If I go SF, I always get an artillery advisor, and I don't find it hard at all. In the early days I choose an officer corp that gives you a 50% for a general with an engineer trait. Recruit a couple of generals and you'll have an engineer. It'll be easy to grind the required skill for him to become an advisor; if you are able to send volunteers you can do it before WW2 ten times out of ten.

@daris55 6 ай бұрын

Never played hoi4 in my life, only watched it. This will be very useful for me

@surjackeroff 5 ай бұрын

I would recommend pirating it and trying it out if you've got 2,000 hours to burn.

@pinoyviking2109 5 ай бұрын

@@surjackeroff Relatable

@theextracator 5 ай бұрын

@@surjackeroff pirating paradox games is what makes them not release new content ;(

@stupidumbdumb 5 ай бұрын

@@theextracator good

@Manosyah 5 ай бұрын

@@theextracatori have 2 hoi4 in my computer both pirated and bought, the only reason why pirating is justified in this case is because their dlcs are overpriced as hell

@AleczanderTravonski 5 ай бұрын

Best explanation I've seen. It was easily digestible and well done! Got me to return to Hoi4. Keep up the good work.

@Lykosdefra 4 ай бұрын

Finally a video to explain WHY you don't have to put artillery, instead of only showing "my meta division"

@fierylightning3422 4 ай бұрын

now all I need is a video like this explaining what the hell initiative actually does

@E.D.998 4 ай бұрын

divisions reinforce quicker. now, if you win you win, if you stall, having some dude joining a day earlier or later wont save the day. its nice to have, but having air cover or some other bonus will go a longer way. using planning for example, is way better bucks for time. you can use planning without investing a penny, just set your attack arrows in advance, let the blue bar charge, then press the arrow to execute attack. initiative is a dump stat, dump there whatever points you have no other use for

@JimmyValmer85 5 ай бұрын

Great first video. Short videos with the basics about the game are a gem to us HOI noobs. Thanks!

@Chad6o Ай бұрын

If this truly is your first, good job you explained things quite well. Keep up the good work.

@behavior2836 2 ай бұрын

you should have a summary! A summary is probably the most important part of tutorial since that's what people usually remember and fall back to. Great video man this was super helpful

@thetatn1113 4 ай бұрын

Played this game a lot and still do, mainly against AI. I feel like my usual strats go obsolete every time there's a major update. This video was helpful.

@fcbaker 20 күн бұрын

What a great video! It was really informative and now I think I'll focus on learning infantry for a few games to try out what you taught me!

@solzv0 5 ай бұрын

brilliant video for a first video!

@xSilas43 Күн бұрын

Super helpful as a beginner, thanks!

@ferkuma569 Ай бұрын

your videos are getting me back into hoi4 after failing as a new player to actually understand what was going on ty

@novitrix9671 4 ай бұрын

Excellent video, had it in my watch later playlist for some time. I agree with all points. Another thing thats worth considering is the 'dispersed vs concentrated' firepower from IC. By that I mean its drastically worse to have your countrys total ic spread evenly along your fronts units. Better to have 1. tight cheap efficient filler (Low width foot/infantry with a few support companies (Logistics, arty, aa, maybe shovels) 2. smasher divisions (Tanks/special forces/inf+tank Hybrids) supported by 3. speedy filler (pure cav/mot/mech bricks to occupy breaches in the line offensively, or plug them defensively). Rock paper and scissors instead of just a whole lot of rock. I know of you ;)

@emilioperez6888 Ай бұрын

I knew soft attack over all is a good thing, but never added entire lines of artillery for cost and speed, but always support companies. BTW, I actually thought having more width meant more ground to cover for your division to make more manned and powerful tactics. I changed my divisions with Turkey accordingly. What a change man. Less manpower consumption, more effective divisions due to width and org, etc. Such an improvement! Thank you.

@mistertwo6113 2 ай бұрын

Sound advice - good job. Five stars for your 'Max Damage' calc and explanation!

@Khankrieger 3 ай бұрын

Great job on your first video man! I don’t usually comment but keep up the good work!

@arkivian5464 5 ай бұрын

Good video. Straight to the point. Backed up by math and fairly simple examples. Even the length of the video is appropriate. Sometimes I see videos too short like 3 minutes which is not really enough to properly explain anything. On the other hand most of the videos are hour long which are tedium at that point

@calldictator6609 5 ай бұрын

Amazing video and a lot more in depth compared to the big Hoi4 channels. Could you do an explanation on what to focus on or what temples are good for mp. I feel like there’s little to no videos on mp basics and what should be focused on. Either organization, HP, combat width, soft attack, etc. otherwise amazing video and happy to be your 100th subscriber!

@Ealdorman_of_Mercia Ай бұрын

Feedback: Brilliant concise explanation 10/10 :)

@benmingle2615 Ай бұрын

crazy that this is your first video, could have fooled me, pop off king.

@stephenrossington1706 8 күн бұрын

Awesome video brother. Started playing around a bit more with my divs now, thanks to you 👍 👏

@SuperKrisNOR2 4 ай бұрын

Thank you for actually explaining why it works the way it does! Please make more videos like this 🔥

@ChadTanker 5 ай бұрын

very high quality for a first video

@xristoskoumpourlis1614 5 ай бұрын

max dmg per width although is a good tell its not the whole story, when you have for example 9/3 your max dmg per width might take hit but you will de-org enemy units faster potentially denying them the ability to reinforce, also you will end combat faster resulting in less manpower loss for you, what i have found out playing against the ai is that its better to have very powerfull infantry divisions that double the number of poor quality (for frontlines)

@sumzer_0 5 ай бұрын

You can watch my other video on line artillery for more details on why its overrated. The fact that you de-org your enemy units faster might not always matter, since you yourself can get de-orged faster. In the other video i also present alternatives to divisions with line artillery that perform better than for example a 9/3.

@austinhebert5523 2 ай бұрын

@@sumzer_0 stop playing the meta it’s gay

@exstratos2477 3 ай бұрын

I’ve been using 7/2 9/2 infantry for 100’s of hours because I remember watching videos that just said they’re the best ones to do. Never realized how ineffective they actually are and how you can invest that into other resources like tanks/planes

@austinhebert5523 2 ай бұрын

Yea but they make sense logically so everything else is just meta gay. Kinda like people who play MP

@estebanszames3652 6 ай бұрын

hi man! cngratz x ur first vide! very good! keep them comming :)

@drsudy9640 5 ай бұрын

Awesome video, great explanation! Looking forward to many more

@Augustus_Imperator 4 ай бұрын

I use a very similar division to the "attack" division as a multirole in single player and it never disappoints me, I just keep the support companies at 2: engineers and recon. after 40-41 I add a couple anti tank and anti air. It shreds anything

@juliusreids2653 5 ай бұрын

Great Video precise and to the point I love it!

@SonOfNone 5 ай бұрын

Pretty good info here. Can't say I particularly learned anything new being 2k+ hours in, but I haven't tried multi-player. I suppose the fact I didn't learn anything particular means I'm at least doing it well-enough lol. I remember when I started playing [2021], didn't look at any tutorials and played the game like it was civ5. What a mistake 😂. Definitely gonna check the rest of the channel out to see if I can find any gems to help me be better at the game. Thanks!

@Ealdorman_of_Mercia Ай бұрын

Im noob and discovering how everything is immersive in a low key manner. From the visuals you might think you only see 2 soldiers shooting each other but then when you dive into the stats it actually represents the battlefield quiet well. Very impressive. I suppose it took the devs a lot of trial and error to find the best match between fun and realism. I still wish though we could have an option to see the battle somehow unfold in a small clip maybe, depending ont he composition of our divisions. It would add so much more realism.. Staring at this map for 6 hours straight makes you think that haha

@davopower 5 ай бұрын

This channel is very underrated! Can you make a video about tanks?

@katrinapaton5283 Ай бұрын

TBH, always gone with what looks right to me when designing a division. Having said that, Ive never played multiplayer so my opponent doesn't tend to gaf what I turn up with. Having said that, thanks for the video, I was unaware of how damage is worked out but now I can see that my standard infantry division actually does make sense. Cheers.

@otten5666 5 ай бұрын

Best infantry division has 9 infantry battalions and 1 medium tank battalion withs pioneers and rangers instead of engineers and scout support companies. Since the division is slow you can make the tank design also slow with as much armor as you can.

@chanachon56 5 ай бұрын

Wouldn't it be better to just go for heavy tanks then? Really double up on the slow moving bunker aesthetic.

@0rbital870 5 ай бұрын

@@chanachon56 They are more expensive than mediums for not that much difference, so not worth it imo.

@Spitze.YT-_- 4 ай бұрын

Pioneers are worse than engineers and you can still have rangers in your division with engineers but not pioneers you can also add/replace something with medium flame tanks because they are way better than rangers and pioneers

@Spitze.YT-_- 4 ай бұрын

Also armor doesn’t really matter in single player 90% of the time you won’t be pierced by anything so their really isn’t any need to make your tank have a lot of armor but I in general just don’t like this division it’s kinda silly and unnecessary

@TheBlooodymess 4 ай бұрын

Artillery good in line, only with buff from rangers.

@mineras2493 4 ай бұрын

But what about the buffs from doctrines ? Did you count in them for the artillery ?

@Canadazoomeryt 5 ай бұрын

could you make a video explaining the why when it comes to tank divisions? the meta in multiplayer seems to be medium or heavy TD's but ive seen other things. i appreciate your dedication to hoi4 and showing us how to design effective divisions. a guide like this, but for tanks would be very very informative

@MrZauberelefant 2 ай бұрын

MP meta is its own beast, because MP tends to be either house ruled extensively or a mess of exploits if not.

@CAPTex92 5 ай бұрын

Excellent summary. Thanks

@YeahILoveTea 6 ай бұрын

spreadsheet user? SUBBED

@franzjosephk6664 2 ай бұрын

I am beginner. This was a great video! Will watch the rest.

@skynoble9125 6 ай бұрын

This has been very helpful thankyou

@frauleinhohenzollern 5 ай бұрын

Had no idea about max damage. Danke schoen

@RK_BDR_TIMP Ай бұрын

I usually use 9:4 divisions - 30 width divisions with 9 infantry and 4 artillery, plus shovels, support artillery, mountain recons, supply company and flamethrower tanks, and it destroys AI very well. Usually I don't even need tanks, mechanized infantry or aviation.

@foxdavion6865 Күн бұрын

TL;DR: Yellow Bar is Organisation: Is how long a unit can hold until it breaks, how long it can engage before it disengages and how soon it can activate queued orders. When organisation runs out, the unit flees, casualties have nothing to do with this. Green Bar is Equipment: When a unit is low on equipment it will lose the equipment bonuses to stats, when equipment drops below 50% those bonuses turn to negatives. Equipment *isn't* supply, supply is different. Supply: Supplies are access to food, water, fuel, reinforcements and replenishment of equipment, low supplies grind Organisation and Equipment replenishment down to a halt and also prevent combat readiness. Zero supplies mean if a unit is forced to fight, it can wipe itself out during a last stand order or a reckless assault order - BE WARNED. Soft Attack: damage against unarmoured organisation and equipment. This happens during every engagement. Hard Attack: damage against armoured organisation and equipment. This happens during every engagement. Defence: is resistance against attack, this is effected by bonuses on the unit type, soft units are more resistant to hard attack, hard units are more resistant to soft attack. Breakthrough: Bonus Global Defence (to both Hard and Soft) against Attack while Attacking. Entrenchment: Attack against Attack while Defending with bonus Global Defence (to both Hard and Soft). Reliability: Reduces equipment loss. Trickle back: reduces consumption of manpower reserves by recovering injured personnel. Experience Loss: Reduces experience loss due to losses of personnel, Trickle back also impacts this value. Movement: effects the speed at which a division can travel, increasing logistical allocation provides units with additional transportation, allowing for faster movements between deployments, if a retreating division is slower than a pursuing division they can be overrun and wiped out. Movement is very important! Often overlooked. Combat Width: Battles have a maximum amount of division which can engage directly with each other at any given point, divisions which exceed this are queued in reserve to replace them as the previous division will disengage but maintain their position instead of retreating. The higher the combat width, the more space the division takes up in the engagement window, the the lower, the less space it does. It is often better for defending divisions to have less divisions in them, which allows more defending divisions to take up space in direct combat, more divisions means the damage taken to organisation is spread more evenly, which allows all divisions involved to stay in the fight for longer. However, smaller divisions suffer higher casualties and equipment losses to that of larger divisions, while larger divisions have higher breakthrough. The meta for defensive divisions is 10 combat width who sit and entrench, for normal infantry 20 who sit and fill gaps, for assault who only attack and push objectives: for infantry it is 40 and for vehicles 30.

@Militavia Ай бұрын

6:42 Aham, and how about the specific firepower PER manpower? For smaller nations who has limited manpower access this is also a factor...

@ahuman7199 2 ай бұрын

7:30 While technically true it doesn't increase speed of the overall division, It does give extra breakthrough for the attack.

@Ivan-qu1kj 5 ай бұрын

Great video keep going!

@OADZ 5 ай бұрын

thanks for the video bro

@DobromirManchev 2 ай бұрын

Not bad, for a first video :)

@jimmcneal5292 2 ай бұрын

I wonder if adding recon company changes calculations a bit, making damage per width of 9/3 more than that of 9/2

@sumzer_0 2 ай бұрын

@@jimmcneal5292 all of my calculations (should) include recon. Even so, max damage isnt end all be all, just a guiding tool.

@Ealdorman_of_Mercia Ай бұрын

7:45 you say it serves no purpoose, but from what i can see, it increases the breakthrough significantly? One could consider it as a boost to normal all infantry templates? I dont know, im a new.

@E.D.998 4 ай бұрын

line arty use less people per width. its good for saving men, if you have industry. also you are spot on for superior firepower, some other doctrines have "better" use for line art.

@PentagramPro 5 ай бұрын

Please zoom in on windows and dialogs you are talking about, as the numbers are too tiny and unreadable on mobile devices

@alexion2001 3 ай бұрын

How do you play HoI4 on mobile?

@PentagramPro 3 ай бұрын

@@alexion2001 It is impossible to play HoI4 on mobile, but it is definitely possible to watch videos about it :D

@Gui_Mio 3 ай бұрын

Man, I'm struggling so hard in combat because I can't get how'd I design army templates, I don't understand combat in this game, it doesn't matter how I make my army I'll always get crushed by other nations and rarely push my enemies back in the front line. I'm looking forward for some video explaining this.

@ContrastFlame 5 ай бұрын

Please air templates next, as you said air and inf works best

@johncochrane1301 4 ай бұрын

Excellent first entry - looking forward to watching the rest and future videos!! I'vew been playing HOI since the beginning and never loked at units this way. Using your metrix I have adjusted all special ops to 16 width, and removed line artillery compeltely from my Marines - HUGE boost doing that. Question, does the stacking penalty of going 16 width factor in to your approach, and if so how much?

@sumzer_0 4 ай бұрын

Good to hear! There is little stacking penalty on 16ws. The stacking penalty (if we are talking about the same thing), starts at 5 divisions when attacking from one direction, and at +3 for each direction. For plains its -2% from 1 direction, and no penalty for more directions. For urban its more yes, but not by a lot. Stacking penalty is the reason why i prefer 12w over 10w, so yes, it does have an impact just not a lot. Ive made a detailed chart with both combat width penalty and stacking penalty which i use, so it is considered.

@johncochrane1301 4 ай бұрын

@@sumzer_0 - I look foreward to this video as well!! :)

@rushiusu2545 6 ай бұрын

Very well explained thank you 👍

@Cherb123456 5 ай бұрын

Thank you very much!

@Games-rl3eu 4 ай бұрын

There is a template I saw that uses 12 inf/2 line art/1 med tank with the medium tank "tricking" the game into giving a division more breakthrough. What are your thoughts on this?

@PersimmonHurmo Ай бұрын

you ought to compare them with land doctrines, as some of them buff arty quite a bit

@sumzer_0 Ай бұрын

No, the best doctrine with line arty is GBP, and its barely more bonuses than inf. Doctrines does not change the outcome. You can watch my other vid on line arty.

@iselia. 5 ай бұрын

Good start 😊

@mariocordeiro6888 3 ай бұрын

Nice video!

@JDothan 5 ай бұрын

6:23 this discounts the fact that attacks over defense do 4x damage

@sumzer_0 5 ай бұрын

Which is rarely realistic in only infantry combat, and not something you should rely on since the difference in soft attack is surprisingly small.

@TheMelnTeam 5 ай бұрын

@@sumzer_0 I agree with your general message, but not with this. It is very, very common and extremely easy to get SA > defensive values in single player. For one, this happens virtually any time the AI attacks our divisions, where our SA >> its breakthrough. Two, planning bonus + multi direction attack + modifier stacking + support companies can allow player divisions to far exceed AI defenses even while entrenched. Depending on year, doctrine, # of attack directions and other specifics, it is realistic to get somewhere between 2000 to 6000 total soft attack onto a target province using only infantry battalions + support companies. This can often result in crits immediately, and will certainly do so once you knock at least one enemy division out of combat.

@sumzer_0 5 ай бұрын

@@TheMelnTeam None of this discredits my point tho. Infantry attacking infantry, the attacking side will always have way too low breakthrough, so any extra soft attack wont add anything more significant than if it wasnt critted. Planning bonus is to a minor degree offset by entrenchment, multi direction attack doesnt matter if combat width is still filled, modifier stacking is more realistic on defense due to engineers bonuses, and support companies can be on both sides. Biggest problem is that we are overoptimizing for the AI. If you are guaranteed to crit, you dont need to worry about it, if you know you wont, you dont need to worry about it either. Its only when there is a chance to crit that the extra attack can help by a significant amount

@TheMelnTeam 5 ай бұрын

@@sumzer_0 Of course I'm not going to discredit your point overall, since I agree with nearly everything you're saying :p. I think it's fair to be overoptimizing for AI in context of telling players how to build infantry divisions and learning to use them first as beginners; AI will be their opponent for quite some time. It is often the case that CW isn't filled with multi-direction attack. That's probably 50/50 in SP; you can't count on it, but it's common. I'm not sure what you mean by "extra soft attack" above? More SA always means more damage, and even more so when it exceeds breakthrough/def. You always as much damage as you can fit into that fight, until the sacrifices become too great and you can't deal it. Another commenter (incorrectly) suggested that line arty can trade org for faster damage. While that comment was wrong, because line arty isn't that great for SA/w, the sentiment is reasonable; there is real value in stacking as much damage as possible to win combat ASAP, denying opportunity to reinforce and shortening micro windows for opponent. The main problem is just that line arty doesn't give enough stats to actually do it.

@lazy3337 3 ай бұрын

I haven't even played the game in a year yet I was recommended this randomly. Nice video overall but I don't think 'max damage' is that useful of a stat. There are two critical points missing here. 1. If you care about how much damage you are going to deal on your infantry, then you are playing a battle of attrition. In that case, what matters is how much health damage you are doing vs how much health damage you are taking. That will depend more on the damage/defense/hp than the org. 2. Having a higher attack per combat width is important because each point of attack higher than the enemy defense/breakthrough is 4x as effective. For example that 9/2 division having ~20% more soft attack per width could be dealing 180% the damage if the enemy's breakthrough was equal to the 9/0's soft attack. If playing vs the ai, it's pretty effective to entrench a line of artillery divisions then sit back and meatgrind. They will deal more equipment/manpower damage than pure infantry with fewer losses since the battle is shorter. The reason to NOT add artillery isn't because it won't deal more 'max damage', it's because dealing 25% or even 50% more damage is irrelevant in mobile warfare. You aren't going to trade efficiently against another player's concentrated tanks with your infantry. So the two stats you care most about are defense to reduce the amount of soft attack over defense the attacker has, and then org to hopefully stall long enough to get reinforce so you have time to react. BEST INFANTRY DIVISION being around 20w of infantry with support companies is good. I would say engineers are probably more important for entrenchment and defense terrain bonus than the artillery is, but it's good to have both. For special forces which you plan to attack with and you know you are fighting tanks, I like to go heavy on anti-tanks - like 6 or more - and add an artillery or two depending on how advanced my infantry equipment is. With a full infantry equipment advantage no artillery can be fine. Also a pretty niche but interesting reason you might want to add artillery (and other stuff) in your defensive infantry templates is to have uneven org per width compared to other pure infantry templates. Especially early game when everyone has the same guns. This makes it so your divisions won't run out of org at the same time and thus reduces the chance you get reinforce memed. I've had a game where someone's artillery division retreating earlier in benelux made the difference after the inf stack in front couldn't reinforce.

@sumzer_0 3 ай бұрын

1. No, this is not what happens when you take org into account. You still only care on a battle per battle basis. 2. This is rarely the case in infantry vs infantry combat. Infantry divisions have a lot of defense compared to attack, so its very unlikely that you will see those types of numbers, especially in MP. This is just not the case. Pure infantry will hold at a lower cost compared to artillery mixed infantry. You can test this if you want. Maybe not always manpower wise, but definitely IC wise. Battle is short doesnt mean you take less losses. This is true yes, but not the main reason. Support artillery is definitely a better support company for small-medium infantry divisions than engineers. It really isnt a discussion. Maybe if you defend a lot of forests, that engineers are worth it. Line AT is completely uneccessary in SP. AI tanks have a really high softness, so you dont need the hard attack. Line AT isnt good in MP either, since tanks are so strong that inf is only to hold. No, i dont know what you mean by this. Divisions will be knocked out at different points in time either way. Artillery will hurt more than help for reinforcing, since divisions can hold for a shorter period of time.

@PantherD-g1q 6 ай бұрын

Hi mate, your video really helped me and i think you have a really good future as a streamer and i was thinking if we could play together.

@timucintarakc2281 4 ай бұрын

I watched this video rwice, youtube still recommending it to me. I sometimes click on this video then proceed to your channel so i cam see if you uploaded a new video.

@sumzer_0 4 ай бұрын

@@timucintarakc2281 dont worry, ill make a new one soon. Love the support

@muhammedtuz6376 2 ай бұрын

This means i need to do doctorin which make org. Higher to put more altiraly. And that would affect a monsterouse go up of max. dmg. per width ?

@ashutoshtripathi. 5 ай бұрын

This is interesting video, I just picked up the game again and my Reich campaign was an absolute shitshow, now I know why

@cjomm1726 3 ай бұрын

Will "Ranger" (With battle modifier?buff )change max damage when i put let say 3-4 line artillery battalion in a division?

@sumzer_0 3 ай бұрын

Yes, (basically) any change in support company or battalion will change the max damage. If you are thinking about the ranger upgrade that buffs line arty, its slightly complicated. In short, costs too much XP so you would usually get it late in the game. Late in the game is when artillery is worst. Rangers still dont fully make up for how bad line arty is. So its still doesnt make line arty viable.

@robitusscyth9486 Ай бұрын

I notice your base for the line arty is with no doctrine how does it play out for say a 9 2 with superior firepower i find it chews thru most everything unless i run out of arty, guns or manpower.

@acsimark 3 ай бұрын

if you go over average defense you obtain a damage boost, so its not linear and org is relevant if you aint got good defense or 50% hardness.

@vverbov22 17 күн бұрын

Man I just can't bring myself to care producing anything except artillery and support equipment for support companies

@mir3700 4 ай бұрын

your first video is the best thing i seen today but there is alot of ads

@PaulSandwell-c8d 5 ай бұрын

Good video 👍 I have been playing HOI for years only won 3 or 4 times with 15,556 hours behind me so I consider my self very poor at it 🤣 So I learnt a few things from you today. Spy’s would be a good tutorial.

@MichaelJones-yl8kk 5 ай бұрын

Very well done.

@mercdutch3950 5 ай бұрын

The stats alta blinded me. 1 35 width 10/5 division with 1k soft attack looks cool, but replacing it with 2 lower width divisions also gets you near that 1k number. Its just divided by 2 so it looks worse. My only question would be, can you run this through the spreadsheets again but also include special forces cap? Using 2x the marines or mountaineers might yield higher stats but I want to know if the cap to soft attack ratio changes.

@sumzer_0 5 ай бұрын

Im not sure i understand. A 10/5 would be a bad idea. There are advantages and disadvantages with smaller and larger divisions. How would this be done? It isnt useful to calculate soft attack per cap, because it doesnt tell us anything. Calculating based on cap is generally a bad idea, because its a very variable thing to measure.

@mercdutch3950 5 ай бұрын

@@sumzer_0 Short version: should I put line arty in special forces divs? It lowers terrain bonusses but increases soft attack and combat width.

@presidentjames9811 3 күн бұрын

Not having rangers on your mountaineers is just crazy. Mountaineers need rangers.

@Spielkind104 5 ай бұрын

I‘m traumatised from this lineartillery thing. What should i do instead when playing for example poland and not having the IC for tanks?

@sumzer_0 5 ай бұрын

I'd say focus on air instead. CAS does so much damage on its own, decent infantry with CAS support will win against (almost) any AI. Special forces is an alternative i mention in the video.

@Spielkind104 5 ай бұрын

@@sumzer_0 i never tried but i don‘t think that poland can win the airwar against the soviets and the germans while having enough troops. Also you‘d have to build you‘re own rubber and Aluminium is verry limited

@sumzer_0 5 ай бұрын

@@Spielkind104 If you are fighting both soviets and germans, then you are really struggling with IC (production cost). Special forces would probably be the best way to break out, if not just numbers work.

@Spielkind104 5 ай бұрын

@@sumzer_0seems like i have to give that a try

@leonardogiuliani6148 4 ай бұрын

You might want to explain a bit more about width and then how smaller division perform better in Africa while Europe supports larger ones. But nice 1st video

@benfrank9622 3 ай бұрын

A good infantry division is a space marine with 30 width division.

@ilovecongress 4 ай бұрын

Awesome video,

@stozoul 2 ай бұрын

I can't find any info anywhere on the internet about maximum damage, aside from this video. Can we get any references?

@huntersleepybrown2988 4 ай бұрын

9-10 inf 1 aa 1 art and 1 at support art engi field hospital moto/car recon logi is best for vanilla with superior doctrine but u ca switch at for basic medium td with either medium cannon or hypervelocity gun for higher piercing

@awww_manx 3 ай бұрын

Quick question, with late game massive economies like the US, would it be ok if I where to replace a few infantry divisions with mechanized for armor or is it not a good idea

@Alphapl205 2 ай бұрын

How did you add the artillery battalion to the template? Dlc name?

@rivvabear9748 5 ай бұрын

14-4-1 Space Marines with AA, Arty, Engineer, Log, and controversial: Hospital if you can afford it. Best Infantry division imo.

@SepuLtera-b3x 5 ай бұрын

In my opinion flame tank support works better than hospitals.

@spidersaremean8917 5 ай бұрын

what is used in 4-1

@divertedpreon 5 ай бұрын

Can u explain what all this means ? I just started my first ironman HRE and idk what this all means

@SepuLtera-b3x 5 ай бұрын

@@rivvabear9748 good template only thing I would change is the field hospital I think flame tanks work better.

@SepuLtera-b3x 5 ай бұрын

@@spidersaremean8917 4 artilery 1 tank

@creber4790 5 ай бұрын

One of my friends is saying that 18w as Germany is bad and that he has never seen someone win in competitive with less than 25w Frontline infantry. What would you say?

@sumzer_0 5 ай бұрын

I'd say they dont know what they are talking about. After the most recent updates, exact combat width arguments have become more meaningless. In competitive MP, the meta is actually 12-18w infantry. I havent seen anyone do higher than that for normal infantry except garrisons. There really isnt any reason doing 25w. It fits perfectly into mountains and marshes, but there is not point in doing that. You will fight the majority of your battles in plains and forests.

@creber4790 5 ай бұрын

@@sumzer_0 Thank you for the response, great video btw. Also, do you have a discord server for your channel where one could ask further questions or so?

@RandomQD 3 ай бұрын

Thanks for the vid mate, gave me a lot to test and think about. Quick question, i noticed u use a lot of 18 to 25 width in the calcs (even in the line artillery video u made). However, it' s my understanding that now the "meta" or whatever is 15, 25 or 35 CW. Does the math still hold with those values? Or what do u think of those CWs? Thanks again for all the info mate.

@sumzer_0 3 ай бұрын

There is no longer any (obvious) combat width meta. Anything from 12 to 40 would work. Ill make a video in the future on CW, so ill come back to this stuff.

@RandomQD 3 ай бұрын

@@sumzer_0 Much appreciated, mate. Looking forward to the video.

@sebastianokon9223 5 ай бұрын

When calculating maximum damage shouldn’t breakthrough also be accounted? because for example putting more mech in tanks technically is better if you for example 8 tank 7 mech but also breakthrough is added not only attack when you add more tanks to division

@sumzer_0 5 ай бұрын

@@sebastianokon9223 good question. Defense and breakthrough dont scale «linearly» like attack and organisation does. When your breakthrough/defense is higher than the attack received, any more does nothing. It also doesnt really work well when comparing with the effects of critting. Having 30% attack over the defense is a lot more than 10%, meaning the defense does more the closer it gets the attack. Edit: You will need to account for breakthrough/defense independently of the maximum damage when considering different designs.

@sebastianokon9223 5 ай бұрын

@@sumzer_0 do you think you can do a video comparable to this but with tanks? I’m not to familiar with how critting works and many other nuances I’m just recently getting into MP

@AmbusherAmbusher Ай бұрын

I rely on infantry and only use tanks for break thru and surrounding enemy armies like Rommel taught.

@SirPeacemaker Ай бұрын

Do you add some artillery into your infantry setup?

@yeet877 5 ай бұрын

So artilley is useless? Can you explain this: I was playing Venezuela bcuz why it has a strong formable and I used 22 9/3 divisions and 2 Mountaineer 9/3 divisions and I completely crushed everyone with an amazing casualty ratio, like 300k+ casualties for the enemy. So I could achieve the same thing without any artillery? Just a flat 9/0 div with support arty engineer and anti air?

@JDothan 5 ай бұрын

Unlikely, the line arty hate is misplaced AF

@sumzer_0 5 ай бұрын

Artillery is worse than most people think. 9/1 is still slightly better than 9/0, but that doesnt take into account a lot of other stuff. Generally, dont use line artillery, and if you do, do it before your entire army has gun 2.

@gildedphoenix 5 ай бұрын

The real game winner is not your template but your use of doctrines. You need to plan your divisions according to your doctrine. Generally SF is good for minors to conserve manpower, and using it cheaply is with left-right sides of the divergences to improve your support companies' damage (so that you can need less line arty), and gain flat bonuses to your army with going right in the second section. If you can afford bigger industry, MW with Mobile Inf is a lot more viable than many think. Blitzkrieg side if you are going to use tanks heavily, because tank battalion bonuses it provides are just that big, but it ignores infantry, which is main source of your organization. Blitzkrieg side alleviates the tanks organization hit to benefit from tanks stat, if you have industry but cannot really affort much tanks, go Mobile INF.

@TheMelnTeam 5 ай бұрын

It is possible to do better than 10:1 casualty ratios against Germany with only infantry as line battalions. As Austria.

@TheMelnTeam 5 ай бұрын

@@gildedphoenix Line artillery is 100%, strictly unjustifiable with superior firepower. Out of the 4 doctrines, it is the worst by far relative to support company slots. Even after rangers added the ability to give line arty 20% more soft attack, integrated support still easily out-classes dispersed support. 50% boost to support companies just overwhelms the rest of what that doctrine gives you, even before rocket arty. With rocket arty + arty + other SA stuff in support slots, increasing your width more than necessary for attacking divisions is nonsense in SP. In MP you still go integrated support, but probably airland in 2nd branch to boost your tanks.

@UCKszbcV 3 ай бұрын

What templete for Marines and Paratroopers would you recommend? Ty.

@UCKszbcV 3 ай бұрын

Why the montaineers division is width 26 instead of 25? Great video!

@sumzer_0 3 ай бұрын

The difference in performance (assuming pure mountaineers, which isnt realistic) is less than 0.2%. However, since you cant do 12.5 battalions, you do 13. This is better than trying to do line AA, or even worse, line arty to get 25 cw in total.