How To Pick an Unpickable Lock

Рет қаралды 3,904

Күн бұрын

I will be attacking this lock using every method you and I can think of and fixing whatever I may find. This is part of a mission to make an unpickable lock to wave in the face of complacent lock companies.
[1] Locksmith Ledger. (2010, March 2). Master lock meets new astm lock bumping standard. Locksmith Ledger. www.locksmithledger.com/locks...
[2] KZbin. (2021, May 31). [1299] unpickable locks from stuff made here. KZbin. • [1299] Unpickable Lock...

Пікірлер: 59

@BuiltDifferentDesigns 2 ай бұрын

If you care about security and would be interested to see this lock further developed and brought to market. Like this comment.

@unusualfabrication9937 2 ай бұрын

make sure to submit a patent! once you show it to the world, in the US you have 1 yr to file a patent until that idea becomes unpatentable also Lock Picking Lawyer ?

@CollectiveSoftware 2 ай бұрын

I'd like to see it developed and brought to LPL :)

@doktorjohannessen2069 2 ай бұрын

Bro i want to buy this, if not at least release the design in something like creative common.

@SianaGearz 2 ай бұрын

I don't think the world needs more "unpickable lock" designs because there are numerous already, and they all provide a degree of deterrence while being defeatable and so will any lock ever made. What it needs is more manufacturers following well known established product quality and safety practices. And it needs people in charge of buying to care. You can't change either by introducing another lock.

@S85B50Engine Ай бұрын

Maybe trying stiffer springs and/or varying the stiffness might allow the lock to be able to resist those kinetic attacks. A stiffer spring should make it require more force and different stiffnesses might also mess with those attempts if you couple it with spooled or serrated pins.

@-Turtl3_ 8 күн бұрын

Please keep this project going, I'm sure that there are a lot of people interested in your work that would be willing to actually use it if it achieves total picking protection.

@prof1811 2 ай бұрын

Great design. Would love to see TLPL take a shot at it once it is refined.

@hgec Ай бұрын

I am very impressed with your understanding of locks and hacking techniques. Most people are unable to think in a complex way that is not based on their beliefs. Very nice.

@ripleylivesay3051 Ай бұрын

Though you solved the lift and rap attack, I believe the design is still vulnerable to a kinetic attack. Particularly a bumping attack done in combination with a plug spinner. In this attack unlike normal bumping tension would not be applyed before striking the pins, rotation only begins after the pins have been hit. The plug spinner would allow the rotation of the core fast enough to reach the clocking. While it may be possible to perform this attack with two separate tools such as a snap gun and plug spinner, the timing required makes that highly unlikely. A new tool where the two are combined would be more plausible. As this requires new tooling to be designed, and other locks would be similarly vulnerable, I don't believe this detracts from the security of your design. Further the innovation of new tools to attack your design shows how well you have guarded against traditional attack vectors. Well done! I hope to see this project continue, your innovation is great to see!

@TheNotGinger Ай бұрын

Definitely keep on this. I'm digging the actual in depth research. Also I wouldn't mind having a go at picking this bad boy if you're ok with it!

@becauseican2607 5 күн бұрын

Watched all of your 3 videos. Your way to explain things with simple cardbord cutouts is incredible! Also i am impressed about the genius way to improve the lock. Instead of adding a New part i would rather use different driver pin length.

@isaacschmidt5466 2 ай бұрын

Absolutely savage drop at 4:36 😂🔥

@Loose-Shirt6551 2 ай бұрын

Hi, I'm in a locksport and found your videos. I'm very interested in what you are doing and think it is worth while to continue. Thanks for expending the effort! 😁

@georgiajim2260 2 ай бұрын

Nice work, looks like you’ve got a good design. I believe the lock could still be “float picked” where careful tension control is used to hold the core just past a neutral position and different combinations attempted. It would still be a lengthy pick, testing the possibilities but could still be picked.

@BuiltDifferentDesigns 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comment. I would love to understand this strategy better. With the core just past the neutral position, would be brute forcing the key combinations? Or just each of the possibilities of an individual pin stack?

@georgiajim2260 2 ай бұрын

@@BuiltDifferentDesigns it would depend on the feedback the lock gives. I could test a combination, move the core to test for open then manually counter rotate the core back testing each pin until I can find one that allows me to move a pin one more position and then test again. This is an extremely tedious process and time consuming so in real world scenarios it would be “practically” unpickable without knowing the bitting on the key. Unfortunately a lock with this many master wafers would struggle with reliability issues in real world uses as the thinnest wafers can flip and turn as wear and dirt are introduced to the lock. Picking can also cause this issue.

@norlin76 2 ай бұрын

@@BuiltDifferentDesigns I would recommend sending a copy to Georgia Jim to pick if you want to see if the lock can be picked, he's picked so many locks, many that are much higher difficulty than LPL. I would recommend sending a copy to LPL to see if it's vulnerable to other attack vectors such as bypasses, but Jim is the one to see if it's vulnerable to picking.

@BuiltDifferentDesigns 2 ай бұрын

Yes that would be time consuming and perhaps a set of tryout keys could also work. However KW1 has some limitations regrading the number of valid keys 5^6 = 7776 theoretical keys down to 6306 with a MACS of 4. That is further cut down to 2969 with impact arrest stacks in position 2 and 4 (there is nuance here). I would like to go to a KW10/KW11 or even KW5. The geometry and size of quickset pins is particularly appealing. To your second point if I do continue to pursue this idea, a study of the wear over time would be conducted to determine failure modes and monitor what wear would look like over the lifetime of the lock.

@georgiajim2260 2 ай бұрын

@@BuiltDifferentDesigns you could also look at other common key systems like SC4 (6 pin Schlage) which has more pin heights to give you more bitting options.

@theredrighteye4380 8 күн бұрын

imagine the lock of your combined with the second lock of ,,works by design,, and the lock from ,,Stuff made here,, together. I don’t even know if this would work. You 3 should work together to make the most secure and complicated lock of all time.

@EvonixTheGreatest 3 күн бұрын

A vulnerability someone else pointed out is that the watchdog pin could be vulnerable to kinetic attacks so a combined method could be used, if someone connects the inner and outer cores they could knock it upwards then pick the other pins like normal furthermore I suspect the cammed surface might allow new kinetic attacks for the watchdog pin specifically, for example rotating the inner core breifly yet harshly to launch it up. A way to fix this would be to add a more limiting mechanical linkage, for example imagine a piston engine, the inner core is the "crankshaft", a connecting rod links an off center spoke attached to the rest of the inner core to the "piston", or watchdog pin, so only once it's pulled fully into the "cylinder", or outer core by the inner core turning far enough will they both be able to rotate. The machining might be a pain but it shouldn't be too bad. As a bonus since it's moving down instead of up and displacing a driver pin it wouldn't be possible to wedge the driver pin upwards somehow then turn the inner and outer core back into alignment, perhaps by an attacker adding friction between the inner and outer core so when turning it back the outer core continuously puts pressure in the reverse direction, keeping the driver from falling. I think you greatly underestimated how vulnerable it'd be overlifting attacks, based on what you showed there you wouldn't need to lift the stacks completely beyond the outer core, just high enough that the wafer stacks overlap the shear between the outer core and the body instead of between the inner and outer core. You did talk about that later in kinetic attacks but the solution you gave seems limited and limiting. You could limit the potential travel distance of the pins without needing the user to compress the springs completely by having a narrower section that can fit the springs but not the pins. For preventing decoding attacks why add additional master pins of variable length when you could just vary the length of the driver pins directly? Not a vulnerability, it just seems like an unessesary complication.

@worksbydesign Ай бұрын

I just watched all three of your videos, very entertaining and I'm really impressed at how simple your design is. I'm looking forward to see more updates!

@BuiltDifferentDesigns Ай бұрын

I loved your lock and ornithopter videos. Definitely an inspiration for me to get started and throw a lock design up here on KZbin. Thanks for the comment!

@jmclaren7 2 ай бұрын

🔒🔒🔒Very cool, I hope this blows up, you just started but I actually like these videos just as much as LPL and SMH

@Alan_Hans__ 10 күн бұрын

The secret to an unpickable lock it to make it impossible to get a pick to access the pins. If the keyway makes it impossible to get a pick to lift the pins then it become unpickable. LPL has some examples of extreme keyways on at least 1 of his videos. A simple 2 piece core can easily have a profile that you can't get a pick in. As far as your lock goes I suspect that it could be vulnerable to a comb oversetting all of the pins, rotating and then letting the pins collapse. Without knowing exactly how your lock works it may also be susceptible to being picked backwards and then a spinner used to rotate it before the pins collapse.

@Ryan-mj4cg Ай бұрын

Really nice clean design. In the vein of a few other locks that have been proposed of late focused on separating the testing from the setting. I think the two parts of your design that make it less commercially viable than it would appear are as follows. 1) In its current form it is a one way lock so you can not lock the bolt using the key. limits the applications 2) is the size of the core, Making new hardware to fit a new cylinder is not a commercially viable thing to do at this point in the lock business.

@chrisdedavid1860 2 ай бұрын

If you could design a lock that TLPL has a lot of trouble opening, then you sir would have the oportunity to rake in the big bucks 🤑

@SwervingLemon 2 ай бұрын

You can mitigate kinetic attacks by using high viscosity grease on the innermost pin stack.

@BuiltDifferentDesigns 2 ай бұрын

Interesting idea!

@CucumberLocks Ай бұрын

Very cool video, subbed and looking forward to more videos from you

@CalebTravel 2 ай бұрын

Impressive stuff!

@pedrohenriquepeixoto3964 2 ай бұрын

Dude, you are impressively smart. Congrats!

@mightygreen3364 Ай бұрын

Damn, you only have 3 videos and 500 subs? This video was recommended to me and I only noticed halfway through, I would have never guessed that, great job and I would love to see more!

@user-xm3iy6ht1z Ай бұрын

Good work.

@unusualfabrication9937 2 ай бұрын

Love this R&D type stuff

@Tipa-fw2rz 2 ай бұрын

Excellent video 🔏👍🌐☮️

@thomasjmcfarlane 2 ай бұрын

Well done!

@ripleylivesay3051 Ай бұрын

I would be curious to see the lift and rap attack tried with a vibratory tool instead. It may still be able to jump the master pins. It's not a vector I would expect someone attacking the lock off the street to take but it'd be interesting to see

@peterdamaris7112 Ай бұрын

Great work. More and more locks today are digital. These can be made very secure relatively cheaply (even is many are over priced). However in most cases both the electronics and the mechanical systems, including the mechanical key bypass are all easily exploitable. I would like to offer to work with you on this if you are interested. I am an electronic engineer.

@mikoajkiljanski7371 12 күн бұрын

I'm curious if you used security pins as master and driver, because I didn't notice it in the manufacturing video. I think that they can make impact attacks less effective. Regardless, nice lock!

@Mr1nferno Ай бұрын

You might want to replace one of the wafer stacks with a solid pin, if combed, you only need to bring the pins up half way to open it. Also it's starting to look like an sfic design with extra wafers

@Alorand 2 ай бұрын

Great progress. I wonder if the main limitation to adoption might be cost of manufacture.

@SwervingLemon 2 ай бұрын

The design doesn't require any more tooling than the big brands are already using, and only slightly more labor.

@InnerBushman 28 күн бұрын

Try Comb picking but lift only so high that the first viable shear line of the wafers is used at the mid-core and shell interface shear line.

@R2D2SD Ай бұрын

Great videos ! But is really bothering that your camera is ever so slightly out of focus !

@LK_8956 2 ай бұрын

Yes please bring to market

@davidulvestad2944 Ай бұрын

Yo, bro. I really want to be your friend. I am familiar with locks, and think I could help you with your trials. I'm really excited to see a commercially available, unpickable lock be created. Furthermore; I would love to be involved.

@scotticus66 2 ай бұрын

Would having different spring force on each pin stack make vibration stacks more difficult?

@BuiltDifferentDesigns 2 ай бұрын

Yes, it should, specifically stiffer springs

@NinjaNicus 2 ай бұрын

🔥🔥🔥

@chrisdedavid1860 2 ай бұрын

Is it possible to put some of the springs and pins in the core, so that some pins have to go the other way. Would this make it more difficult for a lock picker? Would the same techniques still work? ... I assume the same will still work, as long as they recognise the design.