How to plant a forest into thin rocky land where you can’t dig.

[@Carnivore27]

Topsoil regenerates very slow, 1 inch per 100 years (including the input of biodegradable material, compost etc etc). I don't know how fast can roots penetrate and break down the hard soil, maybe more? As you mentioned, if the spade doesn't go very deep this will be a problem for the trees. They will not grow, nor they will die. They will just stay short and small. Better use this area for leafy vegetables, or any edible plant with shallow roots. You can also find trees with shallow roots, or grafted on species with shallow roots. Chestnuts are good option, quinces too. I am talking from personal experience, my family has 1 ha of land mostly used are summer house on a hilly area and cultivation of summer vegetables (non commercial, for personal use). I am 45 years old and there is one pear tree that my grandfather planted in the worst place of the land, like 20 years ago. Couple of meters away there are other trees, quinces, apple trees, walnut trees, even a quite tall fir tree, they grow amazing. None of the trees are shading the pear tree enough so it will affect the growth, regardless the short distance among them. It's just this spot. The pear tree is still alive, but short and small. It has just established there but it doesn't seem to grow at all. If we are lucky we will even get 2-3 pears from that tree, but that's all. I don't want to discourage you, I like people with new ideas and know how to work around a problem. I really hope you it will succeed.

[@jkochosc]

The larger cherry in the row was planted about 6 years ago and is looking good. 10 feet to the east there is a 30 foot tall red oak growing right out of the bedrock. I have planted many peach trees right into rocky ledge and they can do well! One of the important factors for success is numbers - there are 20x the number of trees planted here than can really grow so we will see who can do it and use the rest to feed and mulch the ones that grow :).

[@mountainfigsperennialfruits]

Looks good. It would be interesting to try this on sheer rock, say an outcropped slab, and see if species' roots could penetrate or grab the rock and grow from there. You can see this sort of thing happening on rock ledges and road cut blast areas through rock, but it would be interesting to try it after initial close up observation of a more-or-less sheer rock face. Looks like you are well set for success with this effort.

[@jkochosc]

I think it would work on extremely extremely thin rocky soils as long as there are fractures that roots could penetrate. The thinner and more exposed the soil the more you would have to choose the hardiest species. For sure many species could do it!

[@breecedjpancake8565]

Great video. Thanks for posting. Do you worry about the tithonia getting perilously tall this year and impeding/killing some of the trees you planted?

[@jkochosc]

I prune them back 3-4 times during the season to keep them in peak growth and provide a little more sun below. The tiny tree seedlings can deal with some shade but definitely not a full on Tithonia hedge :)

[@breecedjpancake8565]

@@jkochosc Makes a lot of sense. Your videos are really a gift. Thank you for the work you put into them - and your site!

[@jkochosc]

@@breecedjpancake8565 thank you so much that is very kind! I feel like this is a watershed year in the slow transition from lawn in 2015 to food forest. For years things went at a snails pace and now I think there are enough roots that things are starting to really change:)

[@SteveNoverini]

I did this exact technique but with woodchips and sunflowers. I made a trench with woodchips and built on top of the rocky soil essentially.

[@jkochosc]

@@SteveNoverini sunflowers are a great choice to start mobilizing nutrients and feeding soil and pollinators…and people for that matter

[@SteveNoverini]

@@jkochosc yes, after a year I had excellent soil in the location. Just needed to bulk it up with free materials and roots in the ground.

[@rootmother]

I bought a house with lots of sun on the property and was devastated when I realized I’m on bedrock. 2-6” of soil everywhere. What do you think I can grow? I had dreams of planting fruit and nut trees but was about to give up, and just found your video !

[@jkochosc]

The first thing I would do would be to inventory what is ground around the area that has that kind of soil to see what nature has been able to accomplish! There may be patterns in the vegetation that tell you about fractures or fissures in the rock. Often trees can grow surprisingly well in thin soil. Depending on your location and zone, some productive trees for thin dry soils could be chestnuts, shagbark hickory varieties, yellowbud hickory, Asian and European pear, Chinese Yellowhorn, goumi, blueberry. If you tell me more details I could be more specific :). But the most important is an inventory of what is growing around there now.

[@rootmother]

@@jkochosc im so happy you mentioned chestnut! I planted 4 chestnut trees anyway to see what would happen, they seem to be liking the sun. I’m in coastal maine, zone 5. My land is cleared with mostly grass but there is one birch, one century old ash (in decline), some sumac, an ancient lilac, and one 20 year oak. The rest is goldenrod, jewelweed, willow. There were also 2 10 year cherry trees that were dead that I cut down.

[@rootmother]

When you say patterns in vegetation that indicate fractures in rock, do you mean areas with taller grass?

[@jkochosc]

@@rootmother quantity, quality and species all help you get an idea what’s happening below ground. I would suggest to plant a lot of willows, maybe two for each fruit and nut tree you plant. Prune them back over the years to fertilize the fruit and nut trees. I think the general approach in this video would be quite good for your context - make some planting lines where you loosen the little soil that’s there, add some compost and plants, seed in densely with whatever else you can find around that grows well, and all this plants get pruned to fertilize the fruit and nut trees you want to grow. It can seem like a lot of work but managing rows instead of individual trees here and there is really very effective

[@rootmother]

@@jkochosc okay, I'm going to try this method! I haven't propagated before but I wanted to take a stab at it anyway and I've heard willows are on the easier side. I may also try to plant elderberry as well. Thank you so much, I'm excited to test this out.

[@DaniellePJ]

Yep thats the same kind of rocky bedrock soil I have

[@PennyEvolus]

if this was minecraft u could use pistons and tnt to dig down

[@wingking077]

You may regret those hybrid poplars

[@jkochosc]

I wont regret them, I’ve been planting them for 8 years. Wonderful early biomass to jump start things and super easy to prune back or out entirely. Once they are shaded their ability to resprout declines drastically. Poplars are nearly essential to starting woody growth in grassy areas in the northeast.

[@jkochosc]

I only regret not planting a lot more much earlier on!