The goal posts of brass tuning has changed. It happened when the electronic tuner appeared in the middle to late 1980's. Whereas before section tuning and overall tuning was done by the leads and the conductors and by ear, we started to rely on these little boxes and people started talking in cents of tuning rather than an overall sound of the band. Off centre tuning is not always a bad thing. You only have to listen to 1970's brass band recordings to realise that the diversity of tuning actually creates a chorus effect in each section. It is a technique used by recording studios on voices to "Thicken" the sound of a weedy singer. So it does have it's place. If you then listen to a modern brass band you will notice that it has a distinct different tonality. More in tune but also thinner sound than the equivalent pre-electronic tuning days.
@karlrovey7 ай бұрын
When I was younger, I tended to play extremely sharp. One of the most helpful exercises I ever did was the "lip down, then lip up until you find the sweet spot" exercise. That improved my overall intonation as well.
@RyanBeachtrumpet7 ай бұрын
For sure! It’s nice to use that to listen to all the different ways you can affect the sound.
@TechnoReverseChannel7 ай бұрын
aka lip bending
@sbitaxi3 ай бұрын
Chase Sanborn, a Toronto trumpet player, has a book with drone recordings called Tuning Tactics. It's a good text for using to work on intonation Thank you for your thoughts and insight into trumpet playing! It's the next best thing to a lesson with a good teacher.
@RyanBeachtrumpetАй бұрын
I’m so glad you find my videos helpful!
@BrassBro-Science-ys7sg7 ай бұрын
23 is in tune. 3rd slide is designed for 23 to be in tune RELATIVE to the open instrument. But not all open tones are in tune with equal temperament tuning. You SHOULD be able to play A-flat in tune without slides if open C is in tune.
@RyanBeachtrumpet7 ай бұрын
Yeah, I struggled a little with this video in deciding how much nuance I wanted to get into. I decided making it more of a basic discussion was better. For most of the notes that aren’t too bad, you can get them in tune with little issue. I more or less tried to show where the note sits if you don’t manipulate it too much. But, maybe I could have done a better job explaining.
@BrassBro-Science-ys7sg7 ай бұрын
@@RyanBeachtrumpet Understood . I thought that it was a good video. Just pointing out that 23 need not be triggered as many believe that.
@KadlecSvk7 ай бұрын
depends on the instrument, my bach 72 Ab is actually flat, which is super annoying
@merrillryanj6 ай бұрын
23 CAN be built to play a major third low relative to one specific note on the open instrument…but that’s not a given, and the choice of length varies from one design to another. In addition, the effective length often varies from actual length due to valve alignment, bracing, and various damping effects. Finally, the effect of adding a length of “cylindrical” tubing in the middle of the horn varies as you go through different modes of vibration. I love the message of proactively working to play the instrument in tune. No matter how much math you do, how much mindful practice you do, you still need to be “tuned in” to the sound coming out of the horn and the sound around you.
@BrassBro-Science-ys7sg6 ай бұрын
@merrillryanj but the factors such as valve alignment, etc, would affect tuning on all other combinations as well. My point is that the 3rd valve tubing is usually nominally designed, such that 23 is a major 3rd lower in pitch below the open harmonic. There is no practical reason that it should not UNLESS the instrument is designed for 3 alone to be in tune with the slide in which indeed would make 23 sharp to the degree that adding some slide length would be practical.
@jpthomas3697 ай бұрын
More Great content! Every instrument is out of tune and adjustments have to be made on the fly…the key is training your ear and response to be ‘quick’ I need to incorporate into daily work! Along with QTones!
@williamsanborn91956 ай бұрын
This may sound crazy, but how I base my intonation on trumpet is how I hear it on clarinet. That’s my primary instrument. I didn’t pick up the trumpet until I was a senior in high school, so all I had to base my sound on was my clarinet sound. To this day, 8-ish years later, that’s how I practice my intonation. It may not be the best way, but it works for me. 😊
@RyanBeachtrumpet6 ай бұрын
I think anything can be your mental representation! Whatever works is good.
@joksal91087 ай бұрын
That approach to using a tuner is something new to me. Excellent idea!
@RyanBeachtrumpet7 ай бұрын
Let me know how it goes!
@carolinaroot34927 ай бұрын
Thank you. I have gone backing to playing my horn after many years away and amazed at how I have struggled with intonation.
@RyanBeachtrumpet7 ай бұрын
I’m glad you feel this video was helpful! Thanks for watching.
@ryankerwinmusic7 ай бұрын
I love this video. Where is the link to the pitch reference pdf?
@RyanBeachtrumpet7 ай бұрын
I forgot, but it’s there now!
@ryankerwinmusic7 ай бұрын
@@RyanBeachtrumpet 🙏
@MichaelBxl7 ай бұрын
Do you sometimes have to think about being in tune inside the "chord" played by other instruments in the orchestra? Tuners generally uses equal temperament for exemple, but if you have to play the third of a chord, it naturally sounds better if little flatter than in equal temperament. Or does it come naturally by ear?
@RyanBeachtrumpet7 ай бұрын
100%. I think the beats/no beats approach still works. If you’re playing the third, and you’re sharp, it won’t gel as well as when you’re in tune. I’m not sure it comes “naturally”, but the more you practice it, the faster you get overall
@gregeberhardt42297 ай бұрын
Lol, great presentation, took me a couple times to understand this aspect.. i sm beginning to hear the puches, in most of my partials, now integrating adjustments into my scales for this to become, 2nd nature. His mentor stated in auditions if someone is not using the slides for proper intonation, he will not select them
@RyanBeachtrumpet7 ай бұрын
Thanks Greg! Slow and steady.
@coin7776 ай бұрын
7:50 dont you need perfect pitch top do that?
@RyanBeachtrumpet6 ай бұрын
Perfect pitch would certainly help, but the goal of the exercise is to help teach your ear what to listen for. To develop better awareness of great intonation
@reinaldomartinez135 ай бұрын
hey ryan great video ! I'm developing better intonation with my trumpet and found it difficult to play in tune and centered but I'm still at it and won't stop until I've combined the two. You're centering the tone video and this video are critical pieces to the puzzle I'm trying to complete so thank you. Quick question though, while centering the sound and the playing in tune is possible for me on a long tones, what do you recommend for one to do for faster pieces ? Thanks
@RyanBeachtrumpet5 ай бұрын
Practice the faster pieces a little slower so you can hear the notes and whether or not they are in tune. Then gradually speed it up, aiming for the intonation you found was best.
@reinaldomartinez135 ай бұрын
@@RyanBeachtrumpet Thanks! Cheers
@jazzrat20007 ай бұрын
Aside from all the other reasons I can tell you as a longtime jazz band director that most trumpets play out of tune because they're playing too loud and they can't hear what they're tuning to.
@trombonegamer146 ай бұрын
That's an affliction that you'll see all the way up the ladder even to professional top call players
@joseph28324 ай бұрын
What tuning app was that? Thanks.
@RyanBeachtrumpet4 ай бұрын
Tonal Energy!
@Quentin-z8f7 ай бұрын
What are some good audition pieces. And how should one audition.
@RyanBeachtrumpet7 ай бұрын
Depends on what you are auditioning for. Can you give me an example?
@Quentin-z8f7 ай бұрын
Youth ensembles
@chrisrockyou7 ай бұрын
thank you for the video, may i know what is the name of the tuner app?
@zuluking7 ай бұрын
TonalEnergy Tuner & Metronome.
@RyanBeachtrumpet7 ай бұрын
Tonal energy
@australiancomposer3 ай бұрын
Have you come across the intunator app?
@RyanBeachtrumpet3 ай бұрын
I downloaded mine on the app store
@andresamix63537 ай бұрын
I need this in flute 😦
@nvdawahyaify6 ай бұрын
Is the trumpet really out of tune, or is 12 tone equal temperament out of tune? I know most western instruments use 12tet, but brass instruments use the overtone series as it exists naturally. As do choral singers, barber shop quarters, and some fretless stringed instruments and instruments from places other than Europe. I enjoyed the video and I do apologize if I came across as argumentative, that was not my intention. I'm autistic and sometimes things don't come across the way I intend.
@RyanBeachtrumpet6 ай бұрын
I think the trumpet being out of tune, and the adjustments you need to make to play in tune with others are different things. It’s important to understand both!
@KentaMaeda187 ай бұрын
What tuner do you use?
@RyanBeachtrumpet7 ай бұрын
Tonal energy. It’s in the App Store.
@TristanjusenBarroga3 ай бұрын
what the app name?
@RyanBeachtrumpet3 ай бұрын
Tonal energy
@MarcotteTPT7 ай бұрын
This makes feel like a 3rd valve>12 valve movement is inbound? Thoughts?
@RyanBeachtrumpet7 ай бұрын
Maybe? It’s certainly an option that more or less solves the sharpness of 1-2 combinations. But I dunno if there will be a movement about it haha.
@kfitz27117 ай бұрын
I definitely use 3 instead of 12 in certain situations and have had success with it.
@AcidSpitter7837 ай бұрын
Have anybody learned 4 octave scale on trumpet
@RyanBeachtrumpet7 ай бұрын
Maybe. Depends on which note you started on i guess. Pedal C to double C is 4 octaves. I’m sure someone can do that.
@alexandrusimo8997 ай бұрын
clearly the valved trombone is the logical solution
@RyanBeachtrumpet7 ай бұрын
Can’t argue with that
@hatehypocrisy17 ай бұрын
It is driving me nuts.
@RyanBeachtrumpet7 ай бұрын
The out of tune sound with the drone?
@bh56067 ай бұрын
Did not know they were ever in tune.
@RyanBeachtrumpet7 ай бұрын
I’m not sure I understand what you mean?
@us-Bahn5 ай бұрын
The section should be tuning to the principle. If you’re a traffic cop to the orchestra in complex rhythmical passages you must be, in your own affable Ryan way, an absolute tyrant to your section regarding intonation. (I can imagine Bud didn’t cut Charlie much slack).
@alfonsobenitez85745 ай бұрын
I only have my right arm. I cannot use the slide because I don't have a left arm. What do you recommend. I play the Trumpet and I used my lips in order to play low notes.
@RyanBeachtrumpet5 ай бұрын
I imagine you're doing the best you can! I don't really have much advice. I'm not aware of any modifications one could make to a trumpet to accommodate your needs.
@jazzrat20007 ай бұрын
It's hard to play the trumpet. Period.
@pathos_music6 ай бұрын
being in tune is overrated ngl. of course its within reason, but being out of tune at times can just be so much better. multiple players each slightly out of tune creates a beautiful unison effect. its the same thing that happens with string sections in an orchestra. its so underrated and should really be used more imo.