My confidence is shattered I always thought my chopstick use was brilliant
@samuelcoates33393 жыл бұрын
😂😂
@robertsantiago9532 жыл бұрын
Too much Tomate ( tomato in spanish)
@nothere39822 жыл бұрын
Oh noo 😂😂😂
@dewitubeX15 ай бұрын
@@robertsantiago953 hahha
@HarleyInDamn5 жыл бұрын
Something I really struggle with in Japan is the tatemae. I've been here a year and only found out about tatemae a week ago. It's made me second guess everything someone tells me now. I always wondered why the coworker who took me to lunch when I first started has been ignoring me for months now. Turns out she was obligated to take me to lunch and everything she said about looking forward to being my friend and "going out to lunch again" was tatemae.
@adamlorden56665 жыл бұрын
hahahahahah FUN!
@mohamedadan66784 жыл бұрын
That's the sad reality :(
@VengeanceSinX4 жыл бұрын
Lol fucking true same situation
@ayske13 жыл бұрын
that's horrible but I've accepted there are colleagues that just come to work and that's it. Which is fair enough for some. I guess you learn quickly who's keen for a casual coffee and who's not. People are broken
@Ikaros233 жыл бұрын
@STENNELER Jérémy i had a deep conversation at a bar with a japanese after just 10 days. I knew about this consept before i went there. Even the japanese have problems alot of people never go out and are called Hikikamory, because they often feel they dont fit in. I live in Norway scandinavia and people her are also like this. Exept here the " tatemae" is to have a more natural and not so shallow and robotic surface, but this naturalness is often just a fasade. In reality people can hide all kinds of feelings behind this " natural mask"
@PaperClipFlip2 жыл бұрын
There was this japanese guy I met for a language exchange and at first it seemed like we were going to be really good friends. It seemed like we got along very well, and he would even invite me to other events, like a karaoke night, and gave me ramen noodles he brought from Japan. He himself told me from the beginning that he "doesn't do tatemae" and he even taught me how to joke with the japanese expression "that's a lie". He seemed super laid back and not at all like the "typical" reserved japanese sterotype. Then on one occasion I started to talk about deeper topics, and opened up about my family background, etc. I thought that we had gotten to know each other well enough that I could share these things about myself. Unfortunately things went downhill from there. I noticed he got more uncomfortable. I asked if I said anything that made him feel uncomfortable. He said "No, don't worry. Nothing you said made me feel uncomfortable." But then later that week he cancelled our next planned meetup because something came up. I suggested another day and he said yes. But then last minute, he invites a third person without my knowledge, and then on the day, ignores me most of the time and talks mostly with the 3rd person. I confronted him about it afterwards, and he kind of lost his composure and blurted out "yes it was tatemae. What you said made me uncomfortable. We cannot be friends". Just like that (it was a longer conversation but it was basically that). I felt really betrayed, as I usually only open up to people I trust. He made me feel like I was a close friend, but turns out it was all just tatemae.
@user-dd8we9kv2l2 жыл бұрын
bro, its like you read off of my friend's life story, because something EXTREMELY similar happened to her and honestly it was hurtful. It's like the guy just ghosted her (treated like she didn't exist at all) I guess the most painful part of this whole situation is that you THINK you became close to someone but you didn't, it was just a facade all this time.
@PaperClipFlip2 жыл бұрын
@@user-dd8we9kv2l I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. I hope she got over him. It really is hurtful because it feels like you being vulnerable and opening up is not actually valued by the other person. It makes you feel disposable. But, in a way, it helps to hear that others have gone through the same thing and that I wasn't going crazy.
@PaperClipFlip2 жыл бұрын
@@cb-zc8dv It really does affect your mental and emotional health and sanity. It's like the feeling of being gaslighted. I agree, it really is on another level.
@TheHollandHS Жыл бұрын
I assume he doesn't like or can't get along your background and family. It has to be the only explanation based on this comment . If the whole thing was tatamae, he must try usually to attract someone as usual and he wants to look for he likes, but he finds out about your personal things doesn't like you. If I were you, keep making up good appearances on him. Maybe he changes his mind. I don't really rely on people. My tatamae will do the work and I see what happens. The tougher the more I try to be finer on people
@odiagamersrx5584 Жыл бұрын
Just reading this comments broke my heart. It is hard to believe Japanese people.
@MacEwanMouse8 жыл бұрын
I guess you could say, honne is where the heart is.
@shishi11036 жыл бұрын
stop
@simphiwe49306 жыл бұрын
👏👏👏👏👏
@sportsmusicmoviefan854 жыл бұрын
😆
@thedead0734 жыл бұрын
Booo
@Moepowerplant2 жыл бұрын
How honne-st.
@BonazaiGirl7 жыл бұрын
I work as an English teacher in Japan and one of my coworkers told me I was too blunt in some cases and that I need to tone it down. But by western standards, everyone considers me polite. It's actually beginning to exhaust me a bit how much I feel like walking on eggshells all the time. I love Japan, but hate the high level of tatemae used. Sometimes I cannot tell if someone's truly being genuine or not at times.
@itseveryday86006 жыл бұрын
Yes, and conversely when Japanese people live abroad, I have heard a lot of people mention that they feel liberated because it's so much more easy going, and their stress level goes down.
@ickbar116 жыл бұрын
Abroad where? in the west? in countries like south east Asia, like Thailand "The land of smiles (and lies)". knowing how to use Tatemae like the Japanese naturally do, is actually an extremely useful survival skill at work when you are facing untrustworthy people who are manipulative, cunning and are looking for anyway to use you or slip a dagger behind your back... Luckily in Japan you can get off easy because most Japanese people are nice people and won't try to harm you even if they don't want to talk to you, but in other asian countries you have to learn very quickly or you will "die". Being AsianAmerican I'm not used to it at all but I've learned how to put on a face in public to deceive those who are trying to harm to me, as well as strategize ways behind the scenes to protect myself from harm, and find good friends that can give you intelligence about what evil doers are up to, for instance: there was a cunning "Snake" who was going to try to sabotage my project at an upcoming event and being the project leader I had to pretend that there wasn't any issue and I had no idea what was going on, but this guy had been talking to my chief kissing up to him in private and was making preparations to go and trying to find a way into this event, while lying to people in the office that he wasn't interested at all. I created a plan that would exclude his involvement, got the backing of the company sponsors in writing, then brainstormed legitimate reasons to ban him and talked to all the right people behind his back, and got him kicked out on the day before, right at the last minute before the event even started. I did it at the last minute so he wouldn't have time to think of another scheme. It was really funny to see his face, he was absolutely shocked that day, and I even asked him what happened, pretending to be shocked myself, my stratagem worked and it wouldn't have been possible if I couldn't put on a "face". My Chief, who is Canadian didn't learn and tried to avoid dealing with office politics. He got backstabbed twice by his peers, and got kicked out of the company.
@mrbibu58563 жыл бұрын
@@ickbar11 Such an ironic story, but it is what it is. You’re just trying to protect yourself and that’s okay. Hopefully, you won’t use it on innocent people and I hope you be helpful(kind) to them too! I am an introvert and people tend to misunderstand me, thus making enemies involuntarily and they backstabbed me a few times. If you and I meet each other, I don’t think we will get along well😅.
@markazulislam82023 жыл бұрын
@@ickbar11 Man , it's feel like spy thriller. I'm going to graduate someday and I don't know how I gonna cope with these corporate wars .
@Solaris_iv2 жыл бұрын
@@ickbar11 This sounded like a plot of a modern-day Game of Thrones episode dude.
@woolver429 жыл бұрын
I think westerners have honne and tatemae, too to a degree. We just don't have such a clear distinction between the two except maybe calling it "telling a white lie" but that doesn't hit it on the spot either. At work for example I think nobody really talks their mind, they hide their feelings to get along with coworkers and the boss. You also don't want to get in trouble. We avoid touchy subjects like politics or religion and if we can't we try to not speak our true opinions because we might ostracize ourselves. I have had some long and fierce discussions about politics and religion with some of my friends and the relationsship was never as cheerful as before. In the back of our mind we always think of each other as "that a*****e that doesn't agree with me on these important things". I also don't tell everybody about problems in our family. Because it would be either embarassing or troublesome for others. You don't want to talk to people who always complain about diseases or how unlucky their family has been these past weeks, so you get turned away by people who're doing that. And therefore many people don't talk about these things. So maybe Japanese people do have a different threshold about when they decide to open up to talk about private things, political opinions etc, but I think at the core they're not that different.
@ThatJapaneseManYuta9 жыл бұрын
woolver42 I agree. Western people definitely have honne and tatemae too. Japan just happens to have the words to frame the concepts and we are probably a bit more concious about them.
@garrettwgg9 жыл бұрын
woolver42 Agreed. I was going to write a post similar to what you and ThatJapaneseManYuta said but there is not much more to say. Watching the video, I was actually surprised at how much I could relate to what everyone was saying. One thing I do think is different is saying "You should come over for dinner" or "We should do this again sometime." I think Americans wont say something like that unless they are at least somewhat willing to follow through.
@sortitus9 жыл бұрын
woolver42 It also definitely depends on the person where I'm from (USA). For example, at my last job, most of the people freely spoke their minds and even shared a lot of details about their personal lives. I never became friends with any of my co-workers, but I avoided the squabbling that occasionally happened as well. One co-worker was very surprised when my girlfriend came to pick me up one day since I'd worked there for almost a year without mentioning that I was in a relationship. Tatemae seems to be a similar concept to the "If you can't say something nice, don't say [anything] at all." I don't know if the phrase predates Bambi or not, but I've heard it quoted from time to time.
@ferror189 жыл бұрын
ThatJapaneseManYuta I do think westeners have litle bit less of tatemae because we don´t carry an hierarchical structure as much as japanese people do.
@dot54839 жыл бұрын
ThatJapaneseManYuta What you said can also be applied to the Chinese concept of face. Its a universal concept but the Chinese just happen to have a word for it.
@TrickWithAKnife8 жыл бұрын
I've talked to a lot of foreigners in Japan, and the main cause of stress for most seems to be tatamae. If we don't understand the concept, it comes across as being "two-faced". Even if we do understand partially, it still feels rude, because it shows that the person doesn't doesn't trust that we can handle honesty. This is just a generalization I've heard from so many foreigners in Japan that complain all the time and eventually leave. Personally I didn't get upset by it, but I do find it very hard to trust Japanese people who don't say negative things. Actually, I'd love to see a video on Japanese people's reactions to honne from foreigners. I've heard of many incidents where Japanese people became very stressed or offended when foreigners said negative things (not about the person they are talking to), even though for us it's just natural conversation.
@mrdoolio8 жыл бұрын
+TrickWithAKnife Your post reinforced my belief that it's not a "vertical notion" but rather a "horizontal one". In other words, it's not that japanese have higher or more rigid concept of "honne/tatemae", but rather a differently framed one. For example, in US or other societies that highly push individuality as a desired trait, a lot of people will go "I don't care what others think" and then go home and have a completely external locus of control:) Now, yes, that is more about coping mechanisms than actual "policy", but I think it still stands as a point. In japanese society it's important not to make ripples and to be polite, so that's the direction they go when they converse in a more formal setting or when not with closest friends etc. In other societies, people also adapt and push their public persona to adhere to soft (or hard) rules of social interaction tied to that particular society. As for the argument that japanese have it conceptualized and others don't, I don't really see it as a decisive differentiation. After all, persona is a legit psychological term and for a reason. It has little to do with japanese or any other specific country.
@Nata-ch2bk8 жыл бұрын
I've never been to japan but today I've come across a video from yuta and started watching more of his "social experiment" videos out of curiosity. Correct me if I am wrong but from what I understand from the video and the comments is that "Tatemae" is pretty much saying straight lies in certain social situations. You seem to describe it as a way of being polite but my in my opinion : a) You can be polite without telling straight lies b) You can be sincere without being a jerk and hurting people's feelings. c) in rare situations when both not hurting peoples feelings and not telling a lie is not possible, you can just keep your mouth shut or just change the subject
@streetninja5107 жыл бұрын
yes. well when you translate it literally to english, it usually ends up sounding ridiculously over the top. But in japanese, that is just the normal way to talk to people you aren't close with. I kind of see them in japan as common figures of speech for polite/formal situations. for example, "とんでもない” means something along the lines of "absurd". If some one compliments you, its very common to respond by saying, no that is absurd. Of course in english, that is downright rude to reject the compliment so harshly. Whereas in japan, that is a perfectly normal run of the mill response to a compliment(in a formal setting) and even politely accepting the compliment may come off as overly self confident in comparison. its really not about the logical meaning of the words being said. But more to do with the conventional style of conversation.
@soomon36087 жыл бұрын
Actually, I'd love to see a video on Japanese people's reactions to honne from foreigners. I've heard of many incidents where Japanese people became very stressed or offended when foreigners said negative things (not about the person they are talking to)
@harrymcnicholas94686 жыл бұрын
Never worked for a large corporation in the U.S. have you? Brown nosing and as kissing is used all th time.
@DerekBlais8 жыл бұрын
I don't want to be friends or associate with someone who tells me what I want to hear despite thinking something else.
@Paretozen6 жыл бұрын
Yifu Yang I believe you make a valid point, however.. If somebody does a shitty job, he does a shitty job and should be told so. That should not prevent you from having a harmonious relationship! It's okay to be honest or even rude. If you can't deal with that and become sad, insecure, angry or what not.. then it is you who has the problem.
@harrymcnicholas94686 жыл бұрын
A gorgeous babe just told you how handsome you are . I do not eant ot hear that. right.
@harrymcnicholas94685 жыл бұрын
Except for the blond with the biguns right?
@onesecondbaobab5 жыл бұрын
@@Paretozen gotta start with these words "I agree, but...", right man?))) hmm i see.
@MegaZam895 жыл бұрын
I'm sorry but I don't see things this very way. I think you in a certain way expect the friends (or associates) around you to like you, I think in west the division of this two concepts could be translated for certain contexts as politeness, nobody wants to hear that he/she smells...so nobody tells even in west...this can be seen as tatemae, and in western culture is broadly used too.
@Kevin-cm5kc9 жыл бұрын
'Were those girls pretty?' 'Uhhh, sure i guess...' 'See, that was a white lie. They weren't pretty at all.' Hahahahahah. That guy.
@mayde26299 жыл бұрын
jim bob '' If they watch this we could be in trouble '' haha that guy is funny
@hungtrumno9 жыл бұрын
***** so we have 1 of the 2 girls replied here haha
@Kevin-cm5kc9 жыл бұрын
Đỗ Khắc Tất Hưng I was going to make that same joke but I didn't think she'd be amused. It seems I was right. ***** Come on now, he's only teasing. :L
@RedHairdo8 жыл бұрын
+TheVideoGuy Agreed with the first part. Disagree with the second part, because as RARE as they are, some girls are amazing, really nice, and really great people beyond what you can see in any anime. But yeah, I do repeat, it's rare.............. rare....................... 100% honne btw lmao
@RedHairdo8 жыл бұрын
+Soko Shoko Assuming you were one of the two girls, don't worry, he wasn't trying to offend or disrespect you. They aren't idiots, they are really intelligent people, and they seem like really nice people, too. It's also just an opinion they had, which means other people can think differently and find you pretty anyway. 100% honne :)
@julieanngerochi24857 жыл бұрын
I'm currently living in Japan, and it makes me sick when people always use tatemae, in Philippines when you use tatemae you'll never get a real friends! This is part of each country's culture, and to tell you Japanese are extreme at faking their feelings (in general).
@iknowimgaywhenisaythisbut13693 жыл бұрын
Never disagree with this, we call people like this a 'plastik' (plastic). And we all know a plastic is fakeeee
@PokeTwilight3 жыл бұрын
I mean it’s their culture though, when in Rome, just do as Romans do.
@crashermanbombardment41472 жыл бұрын
@@PokeTwilight if the culture is bad then it deserves to be changed. If we were to provide an extreme example, let's say that in country x, there is a culture of killing people in their sleep. When you visit country x, will you star doing that too? Obviously not because it's clearly bad. With the use of tatamae, it is no different but of course less severe in it's nature. But even so it should be something that should be rooted out.
@aashrithreddy29172 жыл бұрын
@@crashermanbombardment4147 just because its bad for you doesnt mean its bad for them. You arent some ultimate standard. There are lot of benefits to being polite as well.
@crashermanbombardment41472 жыл бұрын
@@aashrithreddy2917 I am not anti-politeness. But is a culture where people actively censor themselves really a good definition of being polite? It is possible to be polite without having to hide your emotions. You can disagree without having to offend. Being truthful to one another is how we make bonds. Of course there are always things that we should probably keep to ourselves, but it shouldn't be to this level.
@Kikuye6 жыл бұрын
This had me think about something my old Japanese teacher told me, but idk if it is really true: He said in Japan, when the boss invites people out to drink, often(?) times an employee might pretend to be "drunk" after like one drink and go off on the boss and complaining, telling him off, etc, and the boss/ higher up person will just take it because "you can't blame a person for what they say when they are drunk." I wonder how true this is or not.
@garethadamson58036 жыл бұрын
strategic honne lol
@pablobartelotte45534 жыл бұрын
this may be the intent of the boss, he chooses an employee to get "drunk" so he can get a better understanding of what his staff think of him or his policies. This allows the employee to save face and may actually show that the boss is respectful of the employee.
@bradley89134 жыл бұрын
This is what I understood to be true as well, when I lived there.
@sekantungkentang2 жыл бұрын
@@pablobartelotte4553 OH MY GOD JUST TELL THE EMPLOYEES TO GIVE THEIR HONEST FEEDBACKS IN THE FIRST PLACE. T_T
@some_random_wallaby11 ай бұрын
@@pablobartelotte4553 I find that funny, and it seems like it an effective tactic, but it also seems cowardly because it doesn't confront the problem: the absolute lack of trust between the employee and the employer. If they trusted each other, a little honesty wouldn't need to be such a danger. In western countries, if a boss played such games with their workers, it would be insulting.
@kenzaburooe71467 жыл бұрын
I love Japan, but the one negative thing about living here is tatemae. While people say it greases the wheels of progress, I find the opposite to be true. People's inability to say "no" or be honest about situations in the workplace means that pointless tasks carry on and energy is wasted on futile endeavors all the time because nobody has the balls to step up and just put their foot down or state the obvious about nonsensical ideas and practices. And while people say it avoids being rude and hurting others in personal relationships, I can't think of anything more toxic to a personal relationship than insincerity. Not being 100% open with your mom about what you and your buddies got up to in Vegas is one thing, but constantly emitting a stream of BS counterintelligence to everyone you come into contact with is another. While tatemae is often defended for its role in the former situation, more often times than not it manifests itself in the latter.
@harrymcnicholas94685 жыл бұрын
How many big companies have you worked for? My daughter and her bunch worked 2 weeks with no days off to prepare a presentation. Her bosses spent an hour on it and made no comments.
@rleften57884 жыл бұрын
I mean the idea is that you are using tatemae with people that you maybe don't want to be friends with. It's similar all over the world. Though I would say that most places will give you honne when you fuck up at work :D
@Ichigoeki4 жыл бұрын
@@harrymcnicholas9468 You learn in the military that receiving no comments is a compliment.
@Lady-V4 жыл бұрын
@@Ichigoeki Well presumably they weren't working in the military though.
@ssjup814 жыл бұрын
Tatemae was one of my gripes with living in Japan. I wanted people to be honest with me. It was frustrating because I didn't know who was being genuine or who really wanted to be my friend and those who only wanted an English buddy and only treating me nicely because of cultural expectation.
@BxBL856 жыл бұрын
"-Have you been telling me honne in this interview?" "-Yes, it's honne!" -- I don't believe you.
@Resvrgam8 жыл бұрын
I always disliked the extremes when living in Japan: The dis-ingenuousness was annoying because many people are terrible actors & I was able to easily see through the deception. On the other hand, when the "honne" came out, there was a LOT of very rude and inconsiderate things said: an unsolicited "You look old and fat." By creating such polarized extremes, it leaves no room for the balance most of us prefer: be honest and genuine but also understand that rudeness and callousness isn't something anyone wants to deal with. Example 1: Tatemae: "You have good vibes." Honne: "You're ugly and really fat." (especially when unsolicited) Balance: "You're no supermodel but neither are most people." Example 2: Tatemae: "You are such an amazing singer!" (fake smile) Honne: "That was the worst singing I have ever heard." (disgusted expression) Balance: (Silence)...when prodded "Not my cup of tea." Extremes only lead to divisiveness. No wonder I got on better with the Europeans I met in Tokyo. I prefer honesty but no one likes a jerk. I prefer civility but detest fake people & dishonesty.
@edushyan8 жыл бұрын
+Resvrgam Nice, first time i see someone talking about "staying in the middle" , i think the same Excess is bad, like drinking too much, ingest too much salt, etc....
@johnbaker71028 жыл бұрын
I noticed this in Japanese people as well. They either act really nice and courteous, which is a facade, or they become too comfortable and start becoming really rude and condescending if they know you. I always wondered why these extremes exist in Japan. While I think in the rest of the world we generally have more of a balance.
@yuuisland8 жыл бұрын
+Resvrgam I've never found the negative that extreme from Japanese people. I agree that, living in Asia, you have to get used to comments from friends if you've gained weight or your appearance has changed, but I can't recall anyone saying something like "that's the worst singing i've ever heard" to me. At worst it'd be more along the lines of "that was pretty bad.." (with clear hesitation on their face). On the other hand, my American friends... "Bro you fuckin suck", "Ew, don't wear that, I don't wanna be seen with you if you do". So, I think it really depends on the person and the comfort level you're at with them, regardless of culture.
@Resvrgam8 жыл бұрын
yuuisland You lucked out. I was really taken aback at being told I looked old, fat, and scary when completely unsolicited by my Asian coworkers while living in Tokyo.
@MrKiddyIcarus8 жыл бұрын
This.
@cedricgiraud26799 жыл бұрын
In France or with french people, you HAVE TO bannish "tatemae" behavior. We prefer the truth (the substance) and our feelings will depend on the way you say it (the form). But if you lie, you'll always has bad results, way worse than telling the truth in a raw form. Using tatemae is extremely insulting for us; people will never trust you anymore if you use it, thinking you are dishonest. :) In brief, we have several form of honne here. (There is maybe an exception for some old people too, like in Japan)
@ultimaterc9 жыл бұрын
I guess the closest English word to to tatamae would be *tact* - "The ability to deal with embarrassing situations carefully and without doing or saying anything that will annoy or upset other people; careful consideration in dealing with others to avoid giving offence; the ability to say the right thing" But it's a word that isn't used very often any more.
@johnNYgoesLA9 жыл бұрын
RC Master omg you use tact? In German that word is still used a lot :)
@invasion83188 жыл бұрын
+johnNYgoesLA same in Poland :)
@Yeah-eu5cp8 жыл бұрын
+RC Master Or white-lies and lip-service. We all use those whether we mean to or not, anyone polite does anyway. Charismatic could also be used as well, or sociable, elegant etc.
@shehzaanaabdulla30478 жыл бұрын
+Pineapple It's somewhat different from being fake because someone who passes themselves off as fake expects everyone to intepret their fakeness as the real deal. Which is to say, they are trying to get one over on the other person. With Tatemae however, you aren't trying to trick the other person; they are expected to understand you are going through the act of socially smoothing things over (and in the case of Japanese people talking to other Japanese people, they normally do). In a way tatemae can also show respect for the people in a given situation because it's an attempt to make the environment/social exchange hospitable for all those involved.
@Yeah-eu5cp8 жыл бұрын
ShehzaanA Abdulla Exactly.
@YourWaywardDestiny9 жыл бұрын
Where I'm from, this kind of behavior is part of what we call "Minnesota Nice". Some of it is passive-aggressiveness, some of it is genuine, but most of it is tetemae. You don't want to ruffle the feathers of the people you're stuck with. It's better just to play nice and save yourself the headache.
@ThatJapaneseManYuta9 жыл бұрын
Your Wayward Destiny Interesting. Does it have something to with Minnesota?
@YourWaywardDestiny9 жыл бұрын
ThatJapaneseManYuta Probably. The whole region where Minnesota is sitting is kind of known for it, but since Minnesota is pretty much right in the middle of it, it's attributed to us from Minnesota. We're right next to Canada as well, and their reputation proceeds them as very polite at the same time. Like Thor said, it is usually associated with our large population of people of Scandinavian decent. But who really knows where this comes from? I blame the long winters. You don't want to be stuck inside for half the year with people who hate you, after all. So instead of going "hey, you stink" we either bite our tongue, or find a nice way to present it like "You have a very earthy smell to you, you must work very hard." You'd only tell someone straight that they stink if you know them very well, or are very rude. The further north you go in Minnesota, the more you find this behavior. I can relate very much to the people in this video, anyway. I wish I could be more up front with some things, but I'm programmed to be kind to people I don't know very well. It's a lot of trouble for everyone to have bad relations with others. I just assume that everyone is just using tetemae-like behavior for the first year that I know them.
@ThatJapaneseManYuta9 жыл бұрын
I'd love to visit Minnesota one day (maybe during summer) and see this myself. All the people I've met who were from Minnesota turned out to be very friendly and unpretentious so far. And you guys have one of the most interesting accents in the States :)
@YourWaywardDestiny9 жыл бұрын
ThatJapaneseManYuta Haha! If relaxing at a park sounds nice, we have many forests and lakes to enjoy. :) We'd certainly be glad to have you visit.
@IlotikkuFiN9 жыл бұрын
+Your Wayward Destiny I don't know about the long winters. I mean, Finns are usually considered direct and they live as north as Scandinavians do. Although I'm not that sure if it's true. Maybe when compared to Sweden and Norway? There's no way to tell someone you don't know well that they stink without being an extremely rude, but isn't it the same in every other culture? Although if someone is bad at singing (for example), then it's usually perceived as polite to tell them nicely that they're bad at it. If they're aware of it, then it won't hurt their feelings. If they're not aware of it, then you just helped them to have a more realistic view about their skills and probably saved them from embarrassing situations that could've happened in the future. In the end, lying to someone about their abilities is more harmful than telling the truth, because you cannot improve anything, if you don't know what needs to be improved. But then again it depends. In karaoke bars (here in Finland there are lots of them) you're free to sing as badly as you want and nobody doesn't give a shit. Their purpose is to have a fun, not to criticize other people. But I would never ever to tell ie. my boss that he's good at singing if he's not. If he'd ask my opinion, I would tell the truth. I've also noticed that some of my foreign friends have quite a hard time to read the air. For example I had my Burmese co-worker to living in my apartment for a month without realizing that I would much rather to be alone sometimes. He had broke up with his girlfriend recently, so technically he was homeless, but his mother lived other side of the city where he could've stayed occasionally. I really need some personal time to function properly, but you just can't kick your guests out of your house.
@HappyBerryCrochet9 жыл бұрын
I 'honne'stly love your channel! Really interesting interviews, keep up the great work (^-^)
@lightawake9 жыл бұрын
Great interviews and topics! As a NZ born Japanese, I have sometimes been told that I don't 'read the air' (kuuki wo yomenai). I've given up on trying to change this as most people around me tell me that I have no tact, and I've realised that can't help being straightforward. Personally, tatemai is something that I dislike when it's done in important situations, because 'knowing the truth then working out a solution' feels more valuable to me than 'pretending everything is okay so everyone gets along'. There is a lot of emphasis on 'not rocking the boat' - which might be good for a peaceful atmosphere at a superficial level, but: a)doesn't create important social change where it might be desperately needed (because there is no debate or discussion when everyone agrees with the most senior person) b)creates a breeding ground for things like isolation and pent-up feelings (which I think, if not expressed, can result in things like adult bullying and suicide). Watching this video, I've realised that I do tatemae pretty often in inconsequential situations when I don't want to hurt someone's feelings (like telling someone that their art looks good when I don't like it), but I speak my truth when there are important consequences, or when I need to look after myself (like if I need to disagree with someone about an important decision, or if I'm tired and can't meet up with someone). On a related note, I also think Japanese people tend to be more thoughtful but immature when confronted with honest feelings - I see responses of intolerance, disapproval, guilt-tripping, annoyance, upset and even violence (eg. slapping women/children in anger is way more accepted than in Western culture), instead of the more 'openly listen and try to understand each other' Western approach, when there are difficult feelings and thoughts being laid out. Not meaning for this post to sound so negative; I think it's a very interesting aspect of Japanese culture which has wide social consequences. As a separate note: another way of seeing tatemae would be likening it to saying: 'Hi, how are you?' in passing - it's not sincere, but it's the polite social norm, and everyone understands that it still expresses friendliness.
@antiochus877 жыл бұрын
In Britain it would be "being polite" and "being honest". Though it's not formally defined and not as extreme, it is somewhat similar. However I have some British friends who lived in Japan, including one who has a Japanese boyfriend, and how two-faced this part of Japanese culture was, was one of their main complaints (the other being the sexism).
@sunflowerhk1003 жыл бұрын
Interesting, I have heard many Asians complaining about the British being too fake and easily call others using terms of affection like "my love"
@antiochus873 жыл бұрын
@@sunflowerhk100 There is also truth in the fakeness. It depends on the person and where you are. "Love" is a relatively common thing in parts of country to say, especially to women. It's more Northern English than anything else. An example might be a man at a market asking a female customer "How many do you want, love?" In this case it's more an expression but it's overly informal and personal in my opinion, and for for lots of other people too, but not affectionate. Maybe that's what you mean? Despite the word it's not affectionate and more just friendly, like saying "mate". If someone calls you "my love" then they're probably interested in you romantically or trying to get you into bed and coming on pretty strong. It's not normal to use with anyone but romantic partners.
@bevankj9 жыл бұрын
I appreciate the value of tatemae, the concept's really not all that uniquely Japanese after all, but the particularly strong emphasis in Japan leads me to really celebrate the moments when people start telling me their true thoughts and feelings. For instance, after gradually building a friendship over a period of several months, eventually my friend told me quite bluntly, "I really don't have a good impression of Americans." Given that she was telling this straight to the face of an actual American, me, I was a little surprised. Just thinking about it makes me laugh a little. Instead of taking offence, one tends to treasure the little insults like this your friends tell you to your face as signs of growing trust and closeness.
@nothere39822 жыл бұрын
She may have told you she is annoyed of you and doesn't want you to keep calling her but doesn't know how to say it anymore. It's really a matter of interpretation. I personally disagree, I like honest people and I don't like when others lie to me. It can save many troublesome moments and improves mental health
@MacStatic8 жыл бұрын
I swear to god I can't stop watching these videos! please send help!!
@sanityisrelative8 жыл бұрын
+MOS We can be trapped together.
@Gabu_8 жыл бұрын
+sanityisrelative Now we're three. May the rabbit hole never end.
@ectomorphine46098 жыл бұрын
Haha same.. I really need to go to Japan
@everponderingstar8 жыл бұрын
oh...oh no! me too! help me too!
@zhin137 жыл бұрын
So I'm not the only one..
@merihseriz8216 жыл бұрын
But it must be very hard that you can't be yourself. I'm trying to imagine this situation and it makes me depressed if I can't tell my real feelings. I'm sorry about these people.
@dawnriddler5 жыл бұрын
why would you to ppl you don't necessarily care about?
@Hana-li8zf8 жыл бұрын
it would be perfect if people could mix both honne and tatemae: be sincere but with intelligence, honest and careful to not hurt others' feelings :)
@Hana-li8zf8 жыл бұрын
***** good guy! :)
@Hana-li8zf8 жыл бұрын
***** yeah..people want to be blind sometimes,because reality is too hard to accept. I know the feeling,I'm a loner because of that too! But I learned that it's better to say the truth to the people you love,and to be more polite to strangers,you won't be that much of a loner this way
@Hana-li8zf8 жыл бұрын
***** yes I know,but not everyone feels that way
@treize328 жыл бұрын
+Hana So basically just considerate honne.
@Hana-li8zf8 жыл бұрын
treize32 yeah I guess so
@jengr01927 жыл бұрын
Japanese personality's seem very similar to English (where I'm from) particularly in the work place there is a lot of fakeness going on i.e people being nice to your face then talking/thinking the complete opposite behind your back, I think it's a pretty instinctual thing in human nature and certainly isn't solely a Japanese issue.
@halohalo5762 жыл бұрын
well in the US they don't . you guys have an indirect communication style
@carrminor9 жыл бұрын
This video was really culturally informative.You don't find such videos easily on KZbin.It's great to understand more the core of their culture...
@themissingmile7 жыл бұрын
I travel frequently to Tokyo and have mixed feelings about the Japanese. On one hand, every interaction I've ever had has been either a neutral or positive experience. But I also pick up on people I don't converse with. Just observing the body language of people in trains, in cafes or malls, one does get the feeling that they are very private or walled-up individuals. There is a way to speak your mind without hurting someone's feelings. For example, I'm not sure if it's a translation issue but the way that last guy commented on the length of the interview was borderline bitchy. Before you feel yourself getting frustrated by the length of the interview, all you need to say is, "Hey, we can't chat any longer. Can we do a final question please?" Same goes with the guys who were set up on a lunch date. My suggestion: "I think our friends tried to set us up. We're not into this and I can see you are uncomfortable too. Shall we call it a day?" I see extreme Honne and Tatemae playing out in Japanese dramas too. Art imitating Life. Recently watched a drama series, Code Blue, where a young doctor encouraged her nurse colleague to speak more freely. The nurse went on a tirade of unkind remarks she had been meaning to say. I've seen too many similar scenes played out in Japanese media. They are either drunk or encouraged to speak freely. If this a reflection of their society, it's sad to see that only extreme ways of speaking are utilised when conversing with people outside one's inner circle. My humble advice would be to ALWAYS speak your mind but practice empathy and kindness. Honne and Tatemae can be seamlessly merged through more practice, more conversations. :)
@veemon6 жыл бұрын
I agree with everything you said. In general, things like empathy and compassion seem like foreign concepts amongst Japanese people.
@ADeeSHUPA4 жыл бұрын
@@veemon uP
@kosmaslemo4 жыл бұрын
first of all, you are the guy who gives advice to a whole nation via youtube comments? nice. i didnt know changing the world was that easy. Moving on, so your advice to a whole nation of historically "more private people", as you say, to people who have to actively think and act regarding the hierarchy of the situation, to people whose culture might frown upon honesty and in extreme cases even cause them problems (AS IN EVERY CULTURE, let us not bullshit ourselves) would be "hey just be honest ma dudes"? nice. well, if you ever get depressed, then i guess "dont be sad" you cant understand why if encouraged to speak freely they sound bitchy? really? how naive are you? you cant be that young, since you re travelling around that much. if you bottle up thoughts and emotions for a long time, there is no calm and kind way these will ever come out. You travel frequently to tokyo? Well, if you think you have the answer, then try and teach it to them, instead of giving "advice" online. Bring the change you bitch about
@sunflowerhk1003 жыл бұрын
Regarding the suggestions you made, e.g. "Hey, we can't chat any longer. Can we do a final question please?" .. i actually find them quite bitchy. I feel no problems with what those guys in the video said.. he said the interview was a bit too long as a half funny, half-serious comment. I think he was being genuine and direct but also softened it.
@themissingmile3 жыл бұрын
@@sunflowerhk100 What tone of voice did you use to read my suggestions? You've clearly projected some of your personality ugliness and unhappiness if you think politely telling a stranger that you can't stay to talk anymore is bitchy. Please don't project on me. Most people here agree with me. No one has to feel obliged to continue answering the interviewers questions to the point where they pass weird bitchy remarks. Just politely tell the interviewer you can't chat anymore and take a final question if you have the time. Easy.
@grobaniteLarisa9 жыл бұрын
OMGsh thank you for this interview!! I think it is one of the most important topics for foreigners!! Working in Japan, I realize I have to "do as the romans do," but in the back of my mind I always wonder: if everyone knows that everyone is lying, and everyone knows that everyone knows that everyone is lying, then why doesn't everyone just tell the truth?!!! I would love it if you could ask Japanese people what they think "wa" or harmony really means. Because I don't think it means the same thing in Japan, as it does to westerners. お願いします!
@hasen19579 жыл бұрын
***** It's the same in your home country and in every culture. The reason why people continue to play the game is to move things forward. When at work, it's beneficial to play along with everyone so that work gets done. Getting dramatic and personal would just poison the atmosphere and no work will get done.
@bombadi19 жыл бұрын
***** The thing is we *can* and *do* lie to ourselves in order to keep our spirits high in many situations. Hearing someone's true opinion outright, especially in public, could bring us down when we least expect it or need it.
@shirochanbleach9 жыл бұрын
Bombadil Exactly. Depending on how we look at it, honne can actually be poisonous to to our moods and not really be helpful. Therefore, even though tatemae is not "the truth", it is still very valuable, to ourselves and others. Think of how many times a depressed person would beat themselves over with what they view as "the truth" about themselves, when a more positive statement they don't yet believe in could often be a better solution. And there's another way to look at it too.
@johnbaker71028 жыл бұрын
+hasen195 No it isn't to the degree it is in Japan. If I don't like someone at work I kinda ignore them or keep conversations to a minimum. But in Japan they would say stuff like "wow, you're so amazing at you work, good job." They go too extreme, and that comes off really disingenuous to the rest of the world, while in Japan that's very common.
@hasen19578 жыл бұрын
John Baker lol what? I think you're making shit up.
@gimmedavidb8 жыл бұрын
To answer your question, "YES". They think it's perfectly okay to lie to your face.
@yujitsuzuki54398 жыл бұрын
Well,,,I am Japanese but it really depends on person. Some try to be nice to get girls or men. Even for job opportunities. My honest answer is in many ways Japanese people are shallow though. they try to be nice but you never know their honest answer...it's just my opinion. There are many in Japan who are amazing and courteous.
@ashtil83224 жыл бұрын
This makes me sad but I’m glad I stumbled upon this. I’ve constantly been going on trips to Japan because I totally fell in love with the country, it’s culture and heritage, and it’s people. I genuinely wanted to have a Japanese friend so I guess I walked into it blindly. I met someone and we’ve seen each other twice in the four years I’ve been visiting Japan every year. Now, I’m not even sure if he was just being tolerant of me or if he truly wanted to be friends. Personally, I’d rather be told I’m not wanted rather than being tolerated so as not to offend me. :(
@crome11159 жыл бұрын
this would also make it harder to date lol.. you never know if the person you meet is being honest or not.
@bevankj9 жыл бұрын
If you have tricks to get people to say their honne, I'm definitely interested in hearing about them.
@thapoint099 жыл бұрын
Bevan I'd imagine booze would be the fastest method.
@Rabbit_5857 жыл бұрын
booze and late-night chat
@IloveHamlet6 жыл бұрын
I would LOVE for Yuuta to make a video about how to tell if Japanese people are saying what they really think or not. Any techniques and tips would be helpful, because westerners have a hard time reading Japanese people and getting their true feelings. Please do it!
@xya68774 жыл бұрын
I think a lot of people hate tatemae, but keep in mind that we do the same thing in the west sometimes. Especially in a work environment. In most companies in America it is also the culture that you never directly criticize something, you complement the person on something else, and hope the people get that you are unhappy with un-complemented thing. The principal of tatemae is definitely used in the west as well.
@fernandotonon769 жыл бұрын
The japanese way of pleasing people and preserving an harmonious interaction through tatemae is a big cultural barrier for me. Even though everyone uses this, not just japanese people, I feel like it can become an obstacule when I'm trying to get to know someone and I'm opening myself, saying my true thoughts and expressing my real emotions, but the other person won't do the same even though there is no need to keep the charade like it's a business meeting. Please do more videos like these!
@Norixciii8 жыл бұрын
The only thing I notice and that a lot of people say about Japanese people is that they don't say no! Kind of like when the guy in the video was talking about the business situation, he wants to just say directly what's wrong but can't. In other countries, everyone just says what's wrong. Lots of yelling and getting angry and whatnot :P gotta do what you gotta do
@nothere39822 жыл бұрын
In other countries people don't scream daily 😂 the language is adapted to say the truth in many different ways (I say this as I've read people say you can only express the truth in a more blunt way). People in other countries understand there is always someone who will disagree or dislike them. I'm not saying a person can say every little thing they think (even though in some countries is common and people can definitely live like that) but a majority have thick skin and don't take negative constructive criticism personally. I'm not saying this to say it's better but we definitely don't get in arguments for disagreeing with someone every time.
@advi109 жыл бұрын
how can they build "good relationships" based on lies? wtf
@znyr39826 жыл бұрын
Sorry to sound mean, but you saying that just shows your ignorance of how society in cities work, and that includes the people who liked your comment. If you got offended by what I said, then just keep in mind that I actually used Honne just know. Not really a great way of building good relationships with others, huh?
@ywaterhouse75196 жыл бұрын
Znyr You seemed a little confused to me. Being straight up rude is different from being honest. You can just say what you are thinking in a not so rude manner or not say anything at all. For example when someone says “Does my hair look good when I wear it like this?” And you don’t think it does but you say “Yeah, you should always wear your hair like this, you look really pretty!” It is being a liar. When you say “You look really ugly and your hair looks like shit” It is being rude. But when you say “Maybe a different style would suit you more” It is being honest AND not hurting the other person thus making them feel you’re an unpleasent person. Society would function like this just fine in my opinion.
@ywaterhouse75196 жыл бұрын
Lobo Senpai I used that as an example because it’s a very basic-easy to understand situation, you took it a bit too literally. And the reason they may sound rude is the fact that the comment had a feeling of defensiveness by saying something along the lines of if you got offended then here’s the thing I would say to you although no one has said anything to them yet. Then with the so called question in the end it had a feeling of aggressiveness. So the transition from defensiveness to aggressiveness may leave some question marks in a person’s mind. Neverthless I admit my mistake of reading too much into a youtube comment.
@harrymcnicholas94686 жыл бұрын
Because each knows the game. They realize each is trying to be polite.
@lovestarlightgiver24026 жыл бұрын
You can be honest or rude, be nice but lie, or you can tell the truth while doing it in a nice way. Truth does not have to mean rude or unkind.
@JackgarPrime8 жыл бұрын
I think it says a lot about a society's culture when you have specific words for this sort of thing. I wouldn't even say that it's good or bad, either. But it is very interesting.
@hasen19578 жыл бұрын
It shows self awareness. Cultures that have no concepts of this will have people living in a delusion that everyone around them is saying more or less what they really think.
@codak299 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this one Yuta. I sometimes worry about this when conversing with Japanese people/friends.
@johnbaker71028 жыл бұрын
+John Doe It's not paranoia when it's true. Japanese people are very good in putting up a facade. I can see it in some interviews when they talking about foreigners and they say things like, "yes foreigners are great" and "we accept non-Japanese and half-Japanese the same", yet in reality Japan has a historic culture of Xenophobia, and it shows in their immigration policies, laws, and the fact that more than 98% of all Japanese are ethnically Japanese.
@johnbaker71028 жыл бұрын
John Doe No I mean they are much more obvious about it. Like they take it to the extreme. For instance, if I don't like someone at work I will try to ignore them or keep conversations to a minimum, and the other person would get the idea I am not a fan of them. So I am being polite, but not completely fake. In Japan, if you do not like someone at work, you would still say something like "wow, you are amazing at your work, I really appreciate it, good job". Its a lot more dramatic and a bit too extreme and more disingenuous. That's the difference I have noticed anyway.
@johnbaker71028 жыл бұрын
John Doe No no not sarcasm, because the idea behind sarcasm is to subtly let the other person know you meant the opposite from your tone or facial expressions. But in Japan when they say those things they do not say it sarcastically, they don't mean those things, but its not in a sarcastic tone at all, its just a fake response. Watch the video, one the girls explains it when she talks about what she says at work to her boss.
@johnbaker71028 жыл бұрын
John Doe I don't understand....You do know when you tell a lie it doesn't HAVE to be sarcastic right? I mean you understand what sarcasm is yea?
@punkgrl3258 жыл бұрын
+HellsAttack I worry about this when conversing with non-Japanese people too. Everyone does it honestly, but it's more so this kind of unwritten rule here in America, whereas in Japan, it's more widely understood and everyone knows everyone else is doing it.
@Blackswordman0018 жыл бұрын
I know a lot of people that went to japan to work really hated Tatemae / Honne because some of them felt that the people they thought had been their friends for years didn't like them. Yes of course this exist everywhere in the world but it exists more in some countries then others especially in countries where being polite is a very important factor of the culture. Because everyone uses Tatemae/Honne in Japan it's normal and people don't really bring it up but for a foreigner it might be difficult but it all depends on the person. Some people can watch someone get assaulted and not do anything and just watch or ignore it and then we have some people that will not just stand by and watch and do something about it.
@girldarock9 жыл бұрын
Waaaah, I feel like I learned so much from this video. Thank you!! I can really relate to these comments lol I have a group of Japanese friends who come to America a couple times a year for work. They speak pretty minimal English and I speak pretty minimal Japanese so it's a total group effort to communicate. However, they always make me make the decisions and never tell me how they feel or what they think about things. Which, makes me paranoid. I'd like to know if there is anything you can do to make Japanese people feel more comfortable around you so that they feel that is is okay to be more honest. Keep up the good work!
@toothless90818 жыл бұрын
When I lived in Japan I used to work in a bar and thus got to talk to a lot of business people from oversees. Most of them said that they trusted their Japanese business partners and that they were always happy to work with them because of their sincerity. There is tatamae but it was said that compared to working with people from other Asian countries, it was less extreme or at least done in a more moral way. In China for example tatamae is used in a more extreme way, people are nice to you but their true aim is to stab you in the back and use the situation for themselves (Not all of course but in general quite a few people said that they experienced this danger in working with Chinese). So the Japanese tatamae is relatively sincere or done with positive intentions, at least.
@jongcarlsmith99263 жыл бұрын
At first, I was very confused about the concept of Tatame and Honne but I've just realized, I've been doing them all my life.;)
@d.w.b.788 жыл бұрын
Honne = Truth Tatemae = "Seattle No" "Seattle No" is when someone laughs a bit, then says "Maybe".
@TheFootballstar55888 жыл бұрын
I'll be leaving in Seattle this fall so that is good to know haha
@TheFootballstar55888 жыл бұрын
+TheFootballstar5588 living*
@yuliyy__4 жыл бұрын
Here in Philippines, there is a similar concept to tatemae. There is no outright term, afaik but we call people who do such thing as "plastic". There is another variant which exists in a work environment where a person use tatemae extensively to get the favor of higher ups. We call those kind of people "sipsip" (tagalog word literally means "to suck"). These actions are frowned upon by many.
@Umeshukitsune11 ай бұрын
Late but in Australia we call it fake.
@whi990178 жыл бұрын
Kindness and honesty are terrible without each other.
@JamesCalbraith8 жыл бұрын
We all do this. Try talking 'honne' to your boss, or at a job interview, or to a customer, you won't get very far. "How are you? I'm fine, thanks" is British 'tatemae'. No society can survive with everyone being honest all the time.
@toothless90818 жыл бұрын
True stuff.
@SebastianBlix8 жыл бұрын
This is an excellent topic! As an American (and a very direct and communicative one at that) living in Japan this is always a struggle. I feel that being a genuinely interested, productive, and helpful person negates the need for Tatemae. I also feel that Tatemae severely slows down progress in almost all aspects of life because it makes it very difficult to get anything done. I'm pretty much 100% Honne, and I absolutely love it when people are with me as well even if we disagree. It always feels a bit insulting and insincere when someone is speaking Tatemae to me. However, I do recognise and understand the necessity of Honne/Tatemae in homogeneous Japanese society, and I know that I'm not being maliciously lied to when someone is speaking Tatemae to me, so I accept it in hopes that one day I'll be comfortable with it.
@mansabrice8 жыл бұрын
I like how buddy called out his friend "he's not so handsome", "he has good vibes" lol!
@thapoint099 жыл бұрын
This "_tatemae_" reminds me of what a staff member told me in high school: sometimes you have to sugarcoat things, which I personally dislike doing. It just feels like I'm being fake. I'd rather just be straight up with people then fake a compliment just to make _them_ feel better. Basically, if you don't want my honest opinion, don't ask me. Also I absolutely loathed my high school so there's that.
@Youngajumma7 жыл бұрын
I wish I knew this before going to Japan ...
@Yeah-eu5cp8 жыл бұрын
I've always found this part of Japanese culture fascinating. I know it gets a bad rap (Well Tatemae anyway) from foreigners, but in a way we do it here in America too. We tend to be more direct than Japanese people generally, but we do say things that we don't entirely mean. We usually call it lip service here. It's like when you say things like "Oh yeah, this was great we should do it again sometime." or "we should get together one of these days." etc. We use words like "Sometime, someday, one-of-these-days, we-should, eventually' etc. to say that though we might generally like the idea we don't think we'll ever do it, or sometimes even we want to say that we can't stand a person and just want to placate them so they'll go away. So really, we do have the same thing, it's just not verbalized. i guess the difference is the Japanese people seem to stick with Tatemae most of the time and they switch to Hon'ne when it becomes relevant or when they are with their close friends, whereas with Americans we tend to stick to Hon'ne until a situation becomes awkward or if we are with someone that we don't really like, and then our Tatemae comes on.
@Katnipkitkat_Cthulhu7 жыл бұрын
I hate tatemae. It gets old really fast. I don't bother to try to make Japanese friends anymore because I can't believe anything anyone says. I always end up assuming everyone is lying.
@DS-Pakaemon7 жыл бұрын
Katnipkitkat (Cthülhu Kthûl'hu) Total opposite of India. In India, we just blurt out whatever we feel, good or bad! But, as an Indian, while visiting Japan, it was clear that they were racist against me, but they won't let it out. they aren't straight forward. Am like "Yeah, insult me! why won't you! I know you want to insult me!!" THIS IS WHY I HATE JAPAN. JUST LET WHATEVER YOU THINK OUT!
@Katnipkitkat_Cthulhu7 жыл бұрын
It is so annoying to know/feel someone is pretending to be nice to you whilst bad talking you in their head.
@chungshiuliau4315 жыл бұрын
@@Katnipkitkat_Cthulhu Usually they will be nice and sweet if you are around, but start bad mouthing you when you are out from their sight. That is why,in Japan, basically, no one really trust each other and many of them end up dying alone. Because they all know what they do to each other behind everyone's back. So their sense of distrust towards human are deep rooted. 人間不信,対人恐怖症。
@Katnipkitkat_Cthulhu5 жыл бұрын
@Chung Shiu Liau I think many Japanese people spend so much time being a fake person they have lost who they really are or were never taught that human beings are individuals in the first place.
@Morita1394 жыл бұрын
Agreed, i had lots of trouble making friends with japanese my age. At first i thought it's just bc my taste in hobby and other things are just old so i don't have common topics to share with. But the more i know them, the more annoying it gets, esp when i'm the only one that is being honest and hoping for the relationship to improve. Even if i try to be nice and care for them, they'll end up backstabbing me in one way or another
@djentleman81163 жыл бұрын
what i find interesting is that, at least in america, we very much have tatemae and honne although maybe just different words and contexts for how we would describe and use these types of communication. for example, during a job interview i use "tatemae" in america. essentially by saying overly positive things about the company and position i am applying for. nine times out of ten that type of conversation will have a lot of exaggerated enthusiasm and could even be the total opposite of how the aspiring employee really feels if they just simply need the job for income. meanwhile, i will always use "honne" when talking to close friends or even in an argument with someone. in english, some basic words to describe these types of communication would be "real" for "honne" and "fake" for "tatemae." I "faked" my enthusiasm using tatemae to ensure a higher probability that i'll get chosen for the job while i speak my "real" thoughts with honne with friends. however one difference i noticed in this video is, in america we will not always use tatemae by default when communicating with new potential friends or random people on the street. generally, people will be respectful but they will also most likely tell you exactly what they are thinking and feeling about you or the situation you're in. we are much more direct with how we are feeling and what we are thinking so while we have tatemae, i'd say we use it much less. we more commonly use a mutually respectful form of honne. however, if someone is using too much tatemae or is being too "fake," people will tend to notice. though in america people would be quick to outright identify the usage of tatemae and confront the person with honne. there are so many parallels between japanese culture and western cultures, we just have different words to describe these things. or in many cases, the japanese language has words to describe feelings or situation or different things in general that the english language doesn't have at all. another example of a parallel would be the different types of japanese speech. those ranging from rude, to polite, to casual and so on. we have that in english as well, we just don't necessarily break it down so specifically into categories. though we very much do choose our words based on context and who we are speaking to. i will use strictly professional speech at work combined with polite speech, meanwhile with friends i will use very casual words and slang words that would be looked down on or viewed as unprofessional in the work place
@freezkeer8 жыл бұрын
thank you so much for this. for the longest time i just didn't understand & didn't realize they were consciously doing this and that there were even words to define it. but i could totally do without the tatemae, which some people call being fake.
@teamsalvation9 жыл бұрын
And it's things like this why I want to raise my child in Japan. These things becomes a part of a person. It takes a while for a gaijin to learn these things, if they bother to learn them at all. For example: Americans often think/say things like, "who cares, it won't hurt anything" or " I don't care, I don't worry what other people think, I need to take care of myself first". This type of American will find it hard to truly understand and learn use tatemae / honne. It is easy for a Japanese to learn, "Fuck that, I don't care, I'm doing it my way" than it is for an American to learn Tatemae and Honne
@teamsalvation9 жыл бұрын
Some people, not all people. See, I can teach my child the "western" way at home, while they learn the "Japanese" way at school and in daily life. At home, I can teach them to have a balance. Sometimes, the western way is the best path. Sometimes its the Japanese way. But for a western person to learn and apply the Japanese way, I think this is much harder and most westerns will not bother trying to learn or they try but give up easy. If my child learns Japanese way first, teaching then the western way is easy and with time and experience, they will learn to have a good balance. Well, this is my *hope* at least. I don't know if I can succeed.
@conatcha9 жыл бұрын
I think every culture has that type of polite falseness, but Japanese tatemae is known for being the cause of a lot of misunderstanding between Japanese and foreign people. A classic one is that answer "chotto..." ("well, maybe...", "I could be...") instead of saying "Sorry, but no."
@poilaaliop4 жыл бұрын
The lady who said that she can't really tell the difference so she pretty much always speaks honne seems so sweet! It's completely possible to be honest without being rude or hurtful 💕
@silviemonk55569 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Yuta! I really enjoyed this. I understand the need for tatemae in social situations, but that would drive me crazy at work. I work in the film industry, and people get right to the point so it can be debated or accepted and move on. Or when doing a test screening of a film, we need to know the audience's honest opinion on how to improve the film. How do things get done in Japanese business if everyone says you are doing a great job, but in reality are doing a bad job? Or if some employee thought of a better way of doing something, would he/she keep their mouth shut, or go to the boss with it? It seems like they would keep it to themselves.
@ferror189 жыл бұрын
Silvie Monk I think they will let it to failure and then of course the boss not the owner of the company but the boss of like the area will be fired and the next one will now in what kind of situation is him in. Really dunno just an idea.
@kao57899 жыл бұрын
I honestly think it would depend on the work environment. If you have a healthy relationship with your colleagues and can communicate openly with them about the job at hand, then that might be attributed more to teamwork and personality more than whether you are Japanese or American. Like I'm a huge Ghibli fan, and I watched a few tv-documentaries about how their team of animators work in order to get the whole animation created. The producer/director's opinon is the most respected, but you can see that everyone discusses to add into the whole creation process. I guess I use this example to parallel your work place since it's both involving creating a film. If there is good teamwork, then there is good results. If you have a healthy relationship then speaking honestly and getting to the point isn't really much of an issue because your focus/goal is on the same page. I mean, even in America there are times when you feel like you can't say your opinons. It just depends on the work place-how well you get along with your co-workers, whether the higher-ups has an open ear to the say of their employees, etc. but I would be wrong if I didn't say that Japanese people probably are more conscious about who has more say since they are stricter about hierarchical relationships. I think they are more reluctant to challenge the opinons of a higher up, but then again I question whether that is actually *really* a Japanese problem, too, because I know even some Americans would have a hard time challenging those who are in higher positions (or those who have been in the industry for a long time)-depending on their personality. In both cases, you would probably need the experience and knowledge to build up to that point where you are respected enough to do that. And tatemae exists so that communication can run smoothly. It's getting rid of the unnecesary opinons in order to get to the point, so it's not so different from Americans, honestly. Perhaps it's a different approach, but healthy communication is probably not too different in any country in my opinion.
@silviemonk55569 жыл бұрын
k_0590 I agree with absolutely everything you said, but I still get the feeling these things are much more extreme in a work environment in Japan than anywhere else, but I have no idea. The only experience I've had along those lines was Japanese producers and exec. producers on an American production, and the only thing I can say is that Japanese contracts are really short! Everything in American contracts is spelled out. Japanese contracts are really vague. Of course, that's different than tatemae, but still odd from an American point of view. But I guess I'm really asking if tatemae gets in the way or helps in business. Probably, as you point out, a little of both. Thanks for your insights!
@kao57899 жыл бұрын
Silvie Monk I should put a disclaimer and say that my experience is limited, too. I hope you get more answers on this thread because I'm definitely curious to know other people's stories, too.
@rleften57884 жыл бұрын
This is the reason why a lot of Japanese comapnies aren't run that well.
@anonymmc27648 жыл бұрын
As someone coming from outside of Japan i think people should be honest to each other - as long as they don't hurt feelings too much. I mean, talking honestly is a sign of trust, and how do you want to correct mistakes if you don't talk honestly to each other?
@jukkis66999 жыл бұрын
Amazing interview! I loved the questions and a very good look at cultural differences, obviously I think being honest is better, but westerners have tatemae as well! The last question was so clever, and I loved the honest answers. great job!
@Strong8464 жыл бұрын
I understand Tatemae, sometimes you can't be 100% honest, in the worst case you may get hurt, on the better someone can start hating you
@shanielsan8 жыл бұрын
So do they use tatemae because they cant be honest because it might hurt someones feelings and they don't want to embarrass anyone? Is tatemae a nicer form of lying?? I wouldn't want to be that way :( I think we should find nicer ways of being honest instead - maybe that's just me?
@MrVulpone9 жыл бұрын
Discovered your videos last week; They're fantastic and very well done. Just ordered your book, too. Keep up the good work, my friend, looking forward to reading it.
@xRisingForcex8 жыл бұрын
i'm curious, are tatemae and honne conceptualized in japanese society as two ends of a spectrum, or as a strict dichotomy? they don't play out exactly the same, but compartmentalization is a similar phenomenon that we have in america, the difference presumably being that the goal isn't social harmony, but self-preservation. great video again yuta!
@DownFlex8 жыл бұрын
I think, that this kind of acting is everywhere in order to strengthen relationships that you NEED rather than relationships that you WANT. Japanese people are just a little bit more differential or advanced in that. And I set it to be one of my top goals to detect, if they are talking tatamae or honne to me. ;) Especially helpful when you date Japanese girls/guys or hanging out with friends of your friend.
@simbbam9 жыл бұрын
The one thing that's interesting to me is that Japanese language has tha distinction between tatemae and honne. Being completely honest and being polite and social is something that happens in every culture, every country. No society or group could function if everyone would always say and do what they think to themselves without being polite or being sociable. But I only Japanese language to have this clear words for both situations, as in English or Hebrew (My language) there are no such concepts.
@Emile.gorgonZola9 жыл бұрын
honne vs tatemae just exist to very different extents in different societies
@hasen19579 жыл бұрын
simbbam I wouldn't say Japanese is the only language that identifies these concepts and gives them a name; you'd have to survey all the major languages of the world before you can make such a statement. But I share your sentiment. It's kind of amazing the kinds of things that Japan has a word for. It probably has something to do with their efficiency. Being able to identify such issues helps people avoid needless drama and move things forward. It might even be one of the factors that feed into explaining how Japan built this giant economic empire.
@Fire64 жыл бұрын
The fact that they said they talked honne during the interview, was tatemae
@ibnSakhr4 жыл бұрын
6:11 That girl in the background was literally tatemae laughing
@candicemannette95899 жыл бұрын
I love your videos, they're always so fun, and the interviews you have with people are cool! People actually talk how subjects are and how they actually view them, to show audience what would they like to know and how they're relevant to things of Japan. Awesome! Keep it up! 😊👍
@hisloveiseternal15 жыл бұрын
I like the fact is that they don't want negativity around or hurt other peoples feelings
@lxlyzd9 жыл бұрын
This is not only in Japan I guess, but everywhere. It's just that Japan have specific words for it.
@massimino369 жыл бұрын
I really like your videos! Keep it up :)
@DaFreeze9 жыл бұрын
massimo attanasio You caught up fast. That is how you use tatemae^^.
@andreamorales45719 жыл бұрын
+Edmont Dantes Omg... Funniest thing I've seen today.
@RedHairdo8 жыл бұрын
+massimo attanasio You caught up fast. That is how you use honne^^.
@SpaceDisco14 жыл бұрын
As a swiss person, we 100% do this. Never labelled it though... but of course, I‘m not telling my coworker he smells bad, I just avoid him. Would be absolutely beneficial for everybody involved to be honest here, but we don‘t want to hurt somebody.
@earthlingcrusader15299 жыл бұрын
Great interview! As a foreigner (as a Black foreigner specifically), I just automatically assume that whenever a Japanese person who I don't know is communicating with me, that they're speaking tatemae to me.
@stiimuli7 жыл бұрын
this isnt a Japanese thing, its a human social thing. We all deal with this dichotomy to different degrees. I think its very rare for people to be completely honest in every social situation.
@DetectiveTective9 жыл бұрын
Every time you make a video, I just really enjoy it. それは私のほんねです。笑
@bradley89134 жыл бұрын
My boss had an idea for a promotion at our school. He asked me what I thought and I pointed out the good and the bad. He wanted me to say it was a great idea and I will do everything to make sure it works. He really didn't want my opinion at all, but that wasn't what he said. He took the fact that I had an opinion, which was very mild, as me being arrogant and had it out for me. The thing was, I didn't even know what had happened and didn't recognize there was a problem until my end of the year evaluation came up and out of nowhere he ripped me a new asshole. He basically said I was a horrible employee doing all this bad stuff. I asked him how long had I been doing this and he said every since I started at the school. I then pointed out he was a bad boss for letting me do all these bad things and never saying anything to me. Well, that was that, and I just went down to headquarters and told them what had happened. They moved me out but left me in the other school that loved me. Turns out later, the whole office would sit and talk shit about me, to make the boss happy. They would accuse me of being a womanizer and questioning my motives of being in Japan, etc. It was unbelievable and I never knew about any of this until one of the Japanese teachers told her friend who was also my friend. It was complete bullshit. This is also hone and tatemae.
@teh_jibbler8 жыл бұрын
I prefer sticking to 95% or more honne. I don't get along with most people, but the people who do stick around are the best people in my life.
@seriouslystephany9 жыл бұрын
thank you for making this video because there were times when I wondered why some of my Japanese friends wouldn't just be direct and say what's on their mind. but know its kinda makes sense why lol
@MissFoxification9 жыл бұрын
People prefer comfortable lies over unpleasant truths. I prefer the truth because I know it is good for me, good for you and good for society as a whole. The reason people do not like it is because they are not used to it. We have become a world of deluded fools.
@katydidwhat61208 жыл бұрын
+MissFoxification I might sound very grim here, but I think we as humans have ALWAYS been a world of deluded fools.
@stellabar6235 жыл бұрын
It is the same as what we call being polite when in company and being real with your friends.
@eman332ify3 жыл бұрын
Lol that guy really just took the chance to roast his friend in front of a camera
@axemaster67303 жыл бұрын
Honne to full extent ^^
@DarioAvilaaCL7 жыл бұрын
Damn, in that case Japanese people wouldn't bare a day with a latino. We talk about everything and right to the face!
@DS-Pakaemon7 жыл бұрын
Dario Avila Total opposite of India. In India too, we just blurt out whatever we feel, good or bad!!! Like who cares what others feel! But, as an Indian, while visiting Japan, it was clear that they were racist against me, but they won't let it out. they aren't straight forward. Am like "Yeah, insult me! why won't you! I know you want to!!" THIS IS WHY I HATE JAPAN. JUST LET WHATEVER YOU THINK OUT!
@Elwen-xs7gr6 жыл бұрын
Debangsu Sarkar What incidents that makes you think they are racist toward you, but won't let you know? Can you mention the examples when you were visiting Japan?
@monasuzuki73036 жыл бұрын
Debangsu Sarkar . how do you know they don't like you if they never told you? And don't just say things like, "I can tell from their eyes" cuz that's bs
@InviteTheLightReadings3 жыл бұрын
So basically, all of Yuta's interviews - you can't take the people's opinions as valid. I understand wanting not to disappoint people but many foreigners say do away with Tatemae with them - b/c it's a waste of time and it's emotionally draining you're playing like you're their friend but you're really not... they'll be alright if you don't want to hang out with them - so don't offer it. you make people feel worse when they later find out you were "just caring about their feelings"
@wlm10297 жыл бұрын
That video was BRILLIANT! You ask some of the best questions, Yuta!!
@simbbam9 жыл бұрын
That was SUPER interesting and also very well done :) Thank you again for this lovely interview!!
@JazzyZenBrotha9 жыл бұрын
As a Westerner, from my personal experience it seems like other Westerners use *Honne* everyday. It's to the point where it has become rude and annoying (from my personal experience anyway). But then when my Western counterparts need a favor (i.e. a ride, money, an open ear to listen to) then suddenly they use *Tatemae*. For them *Tatemae* is suddenly useful because they need something from you. Personally, I prefer the Japanese way, where most people are trying to maintain harmony at all times.
@unoduetre123459 жыл бұрын
JazzyZenBrotha I think it is not a qualitative difference, but only quantitative. Both Japanese and westerners use honne and tatemae. The only difference is, in my opinion, when and how much they use it.
@Darumbas9 жыл бұрын
JazzyZenBrotha It depends on places and people. For example, in France and Belgium, it is rude to talk about "money, religion, or politics" and when you are asked "How are you ?", you are supposed to answer "I am fine", even if you had a terrible day. I would use 20 % T - 80 % H with my friends, but something like + 90 % T with someone like one of my universtiy professors. A good example of western tatemae would be what you would say after one of your friends showed you a picture of his new girlfriend... obviously, even if you think it, you will not say "Damn, she is ugly !", but rather "She looks nice !". As far as I am concerned, I try to never "lie", so if I really have nothing good to say, I would most probably reply "You do match each other".
@punkgrl3258 жыл бұрын
+JazzyZenBrotha I feel like westerners are more likely to use tatemae to get what they want out of others. That's been my experience anyway. Overall, they're more about self preservation than group preservation.
@JazzyZenBrotha8 жыл бұрын
butterstix24 - Yes, "self preservation" is definitely correct. They are very much "for themselves", in other words, they're highly "individualistic" and "self-centered." And to make things clear, I'm not saying it's bad, lol. I'm just saying that it's annoying and I've had enough of it, lol.
@carmcam13 жыл бұрын
This comment is old but i'm laughing my ass out i need to reply. This is so spot on, but i think tatamae when someone needs something from you is applicable everywhere. So japanese just have the consistent tatamae whether they need something or not.
@branjwong8 жыл бұрын
I WANT TO KNOW OF YOUR TRUTH FORCING METHODS. PLEASE. OH PLEASE. Great video, by the way.
@andrewrivera1907 ай бұрын
Honesty without compassion is cruelty. Kindness without honesty is manipulation.
@Nejove8 жыл бұрын
I hadn't heard of the concepts of tatemae and honne before watching this video, and I'm honestly intrigued that this is such a well-defined concept in Japan. Not that we don't have similar concepts in Western countries, but it seems to me like they vary a lot more and are not nearly as clearly defined or consistently observed. To me, this seems to be partly social morality and partly a reflection of an introverted culture. I think that introvert-normative quality is one thing about Japanese culture that appeals to me as an introvert in a not-so-introverted culture. I can totally relate to having a "public face" and "private face" or preferring to keep things to oneself in certain situations. Maybe the temptation to call it insincere, uptight, wishy-washy, or dispassionate is just the result of a cultural bias against introversion or a distrust of the "unknowns" in other people's minds.
@faijoure18049 жыл бұрын
I think most people including non Japanese people talk like this.
@Emile.gorgonZola9 жыл бұрын
***** that exactly shows that it's a different concept because hypocrisy has negative connotations but tatemae can be seen as being respectful or group-aware.
@Auron7109 жыл бұрын
Fai joure You are correct, which is why I have always found it weird that people speak of this concept as if Japanese people never tell the truth. I think laughing at a boss' joke or humoring someone you just met by feigning interest in what their job or hobby is or where they are from is normal social politeness. If a guy starts talking to me at a party who I find boring I wouldn't say "sorry but I actually don't think I like you and you talk too much", I would feign interest for a few minutes and look for a way to leave the conversation without being rude to him. I think its standard behavior around anyone you don't know well, or who is a boss / you have to make a good impression with.
@Auron7109 жыл бұрын
***** yup makes sense here in england too. We sometimes say "white lies" means a small harmless lie. or we call it "humouring someone" when you pretend to be interested in what they have to say just to be polite to them.
@johnbaker71028 жыл бұрын
In Japan though they have to a much higher degree. There is a lot of fake politeness in Japan, that becomes annoying after a while.
@lukasmihara8 жыл бұрын
+Fai joure Japan is on a whole different level. Its kinda like everyone is wearing a fake mask they wear in public..
@hytare8 жыл бұрын
The last part was sad though, if he thought the interview was too long he should be able say so. If it was me, in my country, I can just say 'sorry, this is taking too long, I need to go'. And thats it. But he felt the need to use tatemae... I really hope they can use more honne, since I have read a lot of japanese people have severe depression because they feel they can't express how they really feel.
@hakudoushinumbernine8 жыл бұрын
there is a way in english (i guess) where people can use Honne while presenting it in a tatemae kind of way. one of the the guys was saying for a year someone might speak tatemae and the other guy goes "you know, when we first met, i thought this..." in america, in settings when meeting new people, when we're talking about interests and someone says they like something you're not really into. it's safe to say you're not into it and you won't be looked down on. but you present it in a way so not to condemn the other for liking what they like, you know? so how they said something about liking basketball, and they say "yeah, i really like it," even when they don't. in america. it's perfectly acceptable for you to say what you don't like. in my case, i've always felt a small backstory as to why you don't like something was helpful. americans ask follow up questions sometimes to get to know a little more about you. so you can meet person and they're into sports and you say, "no, i don't like...." "oh, why not?" "well, when i was a kid.../when i was with friends one time.../it's just not me..." It's not enough to give someone you don't know everything about you but it's enough to say 'in future conversations don't talk so much about ~this subject~' in america it's more dismissive when you tell someone they look nice just not hurt them. now if you truly like someone's shirt you say outright, even while walking by that they're shirt/outfit is really cute. i'm a fan girl so when i see things i don't ordinarily see outside of my circle of friends and family, it's almost compulsory for me to say "i love your shirt," or "cool shirt" or "i love your shoes," or 'i adore your outfit." (i HAVE stopped people on the street to appreciate them, weird? yes. but i always mean it, and i do like the fact that it puts a smile on their face. :D )
@artofwar4209 жыл бұрын
Bro, you come up with the best interview questions. Great stuff! Also, I love the music outro; it's very cheerful. Que tengas un buen dia!
@Mondlunar9 жыл бұрын
This is interesting. There are definitly countries/cultures that are more honne, the others more tatemae. English speaking countries seem to be full of tatemae. Germany and Russia for example are more honne countries.
@stillyourlilgirl9 жыл бұрын
This is probably the reason why i can't seem to adjust here in Japan... I am way too stupid , boisterous , and too open and straight forward and i can't do the 'kuuki o yomeru'
@Disendant9 жыл бұрын
I agree too. Me, already living here for seven month and I can't take it anymore.
@invasion83188 жыл бұрын
+Derpy so how are you doing there guys? Still in Japan?
@Disendant8 жыл бұрын
invasion8318 Yes, ten months and still counting. Well humans have a funny way of adapting to their environment. The way I've adapted is to just be myself really. But the thing that really gets me down is the fact I have to put in great efforts just to have a friendly conversation with other Japanese people. Granted, some are more friendly and softer than others but for the rest, they seem like they're not in a mood to talk. I know that it's the result of their culture but it does get frustrating. Different culture, different lifestyle, different social norms.
@SOScure59839 жыл бұрын
Ah, I see now. I knew this was a thing, but now I have words for them! Thanks for making this interview, it was pretty interesting/insightful! I think most pple are right though in that honne and tatamae is also used in the west and pretty much all over the world. I think that some people are just more prone to it than others. Especially more reserved and socially conscious/image conscious Like someone else has said in the comments too, I think in America, people use tatamae more when they want something from you too. I'd say it's most prevalent in professional and corporate settings here. I work at a Chinese restaurant and I'd say about half of my customers use tatamae, while enough use honne too. I almost always use tatamae with my customers cause I don't really know them and I'm providing them a service, so I don't feel as comfortable. A lot of times customers will say something that I didn't quite catch and I'd smile and say something like, "Ah, I know right?" and then after they leave, a coworker would be like, "What did they just say?" "Haha, I don't know actually." "Oh, that's good though! If you don't know, it's always just better to smile and agree with them." I'd say Chinese also use a lot of tatamae, but show their honne much quicker than Japanese lol. I actually have some issues with tatamae sometimes since I'm pretty reserved and I don't like offending pple, or causing conflict. It can take me awhile (a few months) to really open up to people and properly make friends, but when I do, I'm much more outspoken and sarcastic with my interactions. One friend told me that I acted too nice around new pple and that it could kind of come off as boring, disinterested, or even suspicious, so I should find a better balance. This was after meeting his Vietnamese grandma who I didn't seem to make the best impression on.. I wonder if South Asian culture is more honne? The waiters at Thai and Vietnamese restaurants don't try to be overly friendly or put on airs like at American or North Asian places and pple even complain on yelp saying that they're rude, but I don't think it's really intentional. When I went to Japan, I was surprised though that none of my other American friends seemed to notice this and were saying how we can all learn to say nicer things about pple, but it seemed kind of obviously not very genuine to me? Overall, it seems like introversion and intuition are more encouraged in Japan, while in America, it's the opposite.
@emeraldeyes63137 жыл бұрын
Dude I'm coming to Japan next year!! I really hope I see you!! Love your channel btw!! 😋👍🏻