How to: Realistic Brass (tuba, euphonium, trombone, horn, trumpet) in Vital - Synthesis Tutorial

[@EricBowman]

IMPORTANT NOTE: Thanks to Yuli Yolo for pointing this out: the macros apply the same value to every note playing, so this brass preset works best monophonically (one note at a time). To make it polyphonic, instead of using the "note" parameter to modulate macro 1, use "note" to modulate wavetable position by -92 frames (with the same mod remap from the previous note modulation). Then you could set macro 1 to modulate that modulation amount. If you don't mind the preset being monophonic, I recommend setting the voices to 1, to prevent multiple notes from playing simultaneously. If multiple notes are played with this preset, all notes will have the timbre of the last note played.

[@platipo]

Why not, at this point, just apply the modulation from the env not to the macro but directly to its destinations? This patch really is impressive, and it's really an effective way of getting a quick yet quite realistic brass sound, but just not modulating the macro with a monophonic source would fix the polyphony issue and well... arguably would also be better programming. I'd have, in that case tried using a "dummy" frozen LFO instead of a macro, which would logically make sense, but unfortunately, for some reasons, those too aren't entirely polyphonic in Vital 😢

[@zkassai.audio.2]

Thanks Eric! A question - what do you use for expression? The LP macro? I noticed the patch doesn't have Velocity control, so I wonder if the dynamics are supposed to be controlled by a macro.

[@EricBowman]

@@zkassai.audio.2 I don't think I added velocity or expression controls for this preset. However I made trumpet and trombone presets wit the same concepts that use velocity and mod wheel for expression. There's a demo here where you can see the mod wheel movement: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hma3mmhsmt57h7Msi=4tbULBixHDsFXbFG&t=106 I think I assigned mod-wheel and velocity to several things but mainly the amount of wavetable modulation, volume, and the low-pass filter cutoff.

[@paulgonzalez1067]

Hi Eric, awesome work! What do you mean by setting macro 1 to modulate that modulation amount? 1) Macro 1 modulating Note or 2) Macro 1 modulating Wavetable Position (Osc 1 Wave Frame)? Thanks

[@ChrisMills-AmbientSpace]

This is a fantastic sounding patch. I’m going to see if I can apply this approach in Bitwig.

[@DrewParks410]

This is nuts, its crazy how deep sound design skills can go, love your explanations.

[@SoundAuthor]

Those are indeed some realistic brass sounds!

[@simpson6700]

much more complex than i expected, thank you

[@CoolDudeClem]

My jaw literally hit the floor when I heard theese!

[@warlanefam]

Man, you are the best. I am enjoying every one of your tutorials. Beautiful and flexible sounds. Thank you!

[@redrider2865]

This is honestly mind blowing how great these sound, it’s a bummer the sax got left out tho lol

[@EricBowman]

Thanks! Maybe I'll make some videos for woodwinds soon

[@redrider2865]

@@EricBowman That’d be awesome actually

[@dreamaera]

@@EricBowman Please do :)

[@FrankRideausonore]

Impressive. Realistic brass is always a challenge.

[@damienwarnotte5912]

That's incredible ! I wonder if it could get even more realistic by adding a touch of white noise to emulate the air flow blowed by the human

[@zkassai.audio.2]

Please tell us if you found a nice way to do that! This patch is already incredibly realistic even compared to some *sampled* libraries, so it'd be awesome to add in the "human" elements of brass playing too!

[@timnewsham1]

Love it, thank you! I noticed the intervals are too in-tune with each other (play a bunch of fourths and fifths, they glide up to tempo exactly in sync). I added a small amount of random to the fine pitch and they sound much more realistic.

[@joefilbrun]

Wow, what an awesome example of creating a completely custom wave table and then using it to design something that isn't an all-ears-bleeding sonic disaster and is actually super useful! :) Thanks for this. Looking forward to checking out some more of your vids.

[@GlortMusic]

Thank you dude! I'm creating an experimental/ambient track for music college, and this video has been really helpful, since I'm still a newbie with Vital. If I had some more cash, I would support you!

[@MogueHeartMusic]

Thx for this great tutorial! Really helped me a lot for my newest project :)

[@Spludgeroo]

Vital is free and I had no idea it was that powerful. Amazing. Sax is not a brass instrument for those wondering why it's not covered here and I bet that would be really hard to do.

[@psycox8758]

Having this flexibility in a single preset is great, thanks! I find that having a small amount of fast AM on the transient helps a lot with solo brass synthesis;)

[@StefanSchoch]

Again I'm amazed how you create such realistic sounding presets from scratch! If you ever consider doing something similar on Pigments, that would be great!! (I'm a dedicated Pigments user (beginners level) and I don't want to confuse myself digging into two Synth so deeply)

[@crisoliveira2644]

Tried that also with a saw wave. Depending on the amount and the axis of warping, you get a woodwind-like sound or a harmonica-like one. It's also fun to turn it into a mono synth lead.

[@amicidavinci]

Extremely impressive. Do you use an oscilloscope to analyze real instruments, or is this just 😉 the result of 10,000 hours of synth experience? P.S., I truly like your delivery, its all about the sound and not about the presentation. Subscribed.

[@EricBowman]

Thanks! I used to play trombone professionally so it's thousands of hours of hearing real brass. I honestly stumbled upon this sound when playing around with the wavetable editor. I realized it could sound like a brass instrument and pushed it in that direction. I rarely use an oscilloscope, but sometimes I use a spectrum analyzer.

[@KyleGrayYoung]

Wonderful patch & video! Thanks for the walkthrough! Just saw the link in Discord.

[@EricBowman]

Thanks!

[@CarloNassar]

I think the only thing you missed was the part about the "Random" effects that you set up in the beginning of the video. I made up for that by setting Rand 1 to Osc 1 Tune in Matrix, then I set both Rand 2 and the mod wheel on Rand 1. Despite that and forgetting to name Macro 2, this was still a nice tutorial that I used to get a nice brass sound on my cover of the opening demo from Final Fantasy 1 (PS1/GBA).

[@EricBowman]

I'm glad it helped and you're right about adding randomness. I'm usually really subtle about it-just enough to make repeated or sustained notes sound less mechanical. I think Random 1 is assigned to fine pitch and random 2 is level.

[@j-pik8237]

@@EricBowman question about "random" on fine pitch: if fine pitch is set to zero, and the random value is positive, will the variation be exclusively sharp? In order to get some flats in the variation, do we need to set pitch to a negative or something? ...btw, thank you so much for these tutorials! I made a fretless bass sound a few days ago thanks to what i learned watching videos like yours. Funny enough, during my attempt, the thought of random fine pitch occurred to me, but i set the random thing to "tune" in advanced and set the "tune" to a small negative value about half of what my modulation value was (hoping to make it travel between flats and sharps). Now I'm wondering if that was the wrong way to go about it?

[@EricBowman]

@@j-pik8237 That approach works but the easiest way is to hold shift when dragging over the random control to fine-pitch. That way it's bipolar.

[@j-pik8237]

@@EricBowman ohhh is that what shift does?? Thanks!

[@Reza_Audio]

@@j-pik8237 holding shift make it bipolar, I myself did not know that till whatching it in his tutorial

[@8cndhh377d]

I'm a trombone player and I'm floored

[@mortalsno4086]

have you been able to make it sound like a saxophone? if so is there a video or something somewhere that could show me how to do it? ive been trying to get my EWI working in different softwares and i havent found one that i could do breath control AND have a sax soundfont yet and vital is looking promising.

[@lackLUFSter]

your videos are brilliant, putting that doctorate to good use ❤️

[@noahshighlightreel]

my jaw DROPPED at 1:52. WOW.

[@trackhero2714]

One question! I'm just getting into synthesis more and understanding harmonics etc -- ive been building up patches like this and I was making a trumpet and noticed when I draw out the harmonics of a trumpet (im using serum), it generated a pretty similar wavetable (a little less smooth, but generally the same harmonic information) as what you ended up with via the wave morph -- did you come about finding this discovery a similar way? what made you come up with the wave morph method vs drawing out the harmonics, I'm mostly curious about how you arrived at that step.

[@EricBowman]

I stumbled upon it when playing with the wavetable editor. When I realized it sounded like brass, I made a preset out of it

[@Fluf-lv1iu]

Thats awesome man🎉

[@lisaheesters4508]

that's insane man

[@rodrigodearcayne]

This was so cool!

[@manthosdamigos]

Great stuff! Also, you sound like a chill Alan Rickman/Severus Snape. Thought I'd share 😅

[@cge9]

Perfect. Thanks 🙂👏

[@steffenstwin4]

I'm confused. I'm doing everything like you but i can't even get the first step to work... help? :D

[@W1LKUV]

Me too, u fixed it?

[@EzyoMusic]

This is wonderful, thank you for sharing. Have you ever done anything like this for strings? That’s something I’ve been trying to figure out myself.

[@jeygraf7218]

Great Tutorial, Thx a lot!

[@garyclement2888]

When you set these values, does it map out the entire keyboard with the respected keys?

[@dizzler-beats]

wow that sounds amazing!

[@marceloribeirosimoes8959]

BTW, I thoght that the most requested sound was from Yamaha TX81z Lately Bass... ...never saw a Vital version worthy to be called "Lately Bass"...

[@merlin_V2]

Yoo amazing. Makes me wonder, if you could Synthesise a banjo.

[@jamesfaulkner-b7j]

The tricky part might be the picking style.

[@leinexkeith291]

Awesome video. Subscribed 🤝🏾

[@BuoyantBeeSwarmSimulator]

how do i hear the wavetable in confused

[@marceloribeirosimoes8959]

Great tutorial. I miss some brightness on the final results, but these sounds are really usefull...

[@EricBowman]

Thank you. If you add in a few harmonics instead of just using the sine wave before the "wave warp" modulation, you can get a brighter sound. Also increasing the amount of modulation of the wavetable frame and filter cutoff would help.

[@marceloribeirosimoes8959]

@EricBowman Thank you!!! I'm a newbie to this sound design synth realm and Vital was my pick for a start. My goal is to manage it and learn how to tweak FM on FM8, too. But it's just a dream so far that you're helping to make it happen.

[@YoureNowOnTV]

I must have missed this lesson but it was fun to follow along. I hope you're doing ok? I haven't seen any activity from you for a while. 🙂🙏

[@EricBowman]

I'm ok, just finishing a move and looking forward to making more content soon!

[@YoureNowOnTV]

@@EricBowman I'm glad to hear you are ok. 😊👍 Moving can be a harrowing experience!

[@thierrybouteiller1756]

Impressive ! Sounds Perfect. Can it be done in Logic Alchemy ?

[@tokyotrap2579]

I'm trying to acheive this using Reasom's synth Europa. I[m close. Can it be done?

[@Kendo65]

Amazing, you are truly amazing. Thanks!

[@JayPalacpac]

wow this is great! thanks!

[@lyzoic]

hi, I tried everything exact same until 1min 05 seconds, but the macro on wavewarp doesnt get activated/the sine doesnt change its form or move, any idea why it doesnt work ?

[@juliusreade6647]

Great video. Is there a native waveform for this in Vital already? Or do you know the name of the waveform?

[@EricBowman]

Thanks! It's a custom wavetable, made from the init saw wave

[@weltering]

How did you know that wave warp makes a harmonic shift that sounds just like a sustained horn note?🤯 By ear, or was there some math/logic behind it?

[@vergaerd]

Right? I had the same kind of questions with the Wurlitzer/Rhodes tut. HOW THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW ALL THIS @EricBowman? I assume you'd have to study instrument analysis or something? I mean, surely there's basic math involved, but these are frequency specific "tricks". These tut's are so fkn helpful man... Following along really helps understand this synth better and perhaps will allow me to apply these techniques to other sounds if I practice enough. It's kind of addictive too as I feel I accomplished something nice at the end, even when only copying. To me these are templates to experiment with and it's exciting when I realize the possibilities.

[@mikedavids2602]

Where do I get the pinched sine wave table?

[@YSPARK-yj9dv]

You are a master , Thank you , Would you be able to make an instrument that reproduces thunder? I've wanted this for a long time but I don't know how to do it..

[@rayvvenn]

oh that sounds interesting

[@YSPARK-yj9dv]

​@@rayvvenn I'm sure you can do it. Thank you sir, I am full of respect for your work

[@rayvvenn]

@@YSPARK-yj9dv yeah.. let me know when you figure it out!

[@jasecastle9173]

This is an amazing video thanks. The one thing I have been looking for for years is a vst or sample library for amplified blues harmonica - that is to say the sound of a blues harp being played through an Amp in the style of Chicago blues. Is there any chance you could make a tutorial for this as no vst exists that can do it convincingly. Thanks a whole lot. Sincerely Jason.❤

[@EricBowman]

I made a harmonica preset in my SYK pack: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iJWzY6GMfrZ_npYsi=-JbHCCsRQSdz7Gv2&t=113 It doesn't sound like a blues harp in that demo without chords, dynamics, and an amp. But you could add an amp plugin to that and use a breathe controller to control amplitude to make it expressive like a real harmonica. I think the breathe controller would make all the difference since blues is such an expressive art form. You would also want to be able to mimic the thing blues harp players do where they cover it with their hands. You could mimic that with a low-pass filter. You'd have all the tools but the hardest part would be making a convincing performance.

[@leinexkeith291]

Do you have Surge XT content that is like this?

[@xtrct7303]

This is great! Thank you! Can you help me add a simulation for “growl” for this brass sounds?

[@EricBowman]

Yeah you can simulate a growl by adding a little frequency modulation from a sine wave (turn down level to 0) at -5 or -4 semitones

[@xtrct7303]

@@EricBowman Thank you so much!

[@mr.youngpower277]

Genius.

[@raycooper1943]

Amazing

[@sergiodamm3705]

Add a bit of decay at the end

[@ammarfarhan207]

when i asign the macro to wave table and test the sound it doesnt do anything to the wave

[@H-MF]

Wow! That's cool!

[@jona8659]

I wonder how you come to these very specific modulation amounts. Is there any math behind them?

[@EricBowman]

Just by using my ear. It's like knowing how much salt to add to a recipe. Except you can always dial it back with a synth, thank God.

[@jona8659]

@@EricBowman Ah ok, so it's more just to make sure it's exactly replicable.

[@marceloribeirosimoes8959]

Oh, and please, why we need to hold Shift before to drag some controllers?

[@EricBowman]

Holding shift makes a modulation bipolar

[@marceloribeirosimoes8959]

@@EricBowman Thank you, Eric. I'll look for what that means. Thank you for replying.

[@EricBowman]

@@marceloribeirosimoes8959 No problem, it means that the modulation will go below and above the value (rather than just above). So when the modulator is at 50%, it returns to the original value.

[@marceloribeirosimoes8959]

@@EricBowman Cool! I sort of expected that... :-)) Thank you!

[@unrealone1]

What MAGIC is this?

[@タザワショウゴ]

How to make a sax sound?

[@braydenmaguire7121]

If possible could you show us how the lizzo truth hurts piano preset was made?

[@EricBowman]

That sounds like a detuned upright piano. Synthesizing a piano is hard but a process similar to the one I use in my hammer dulcimer video could get you close: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fquWh3eMfs-nfKc

[@saviogoncalves]

Is it possible to play one note with my saxophone and get more 2 sounds (trombone and trumpet) at the same time? Also, the sax on the 1st voice, trombone -5th and trumpet +3th ?

[@EricBowman]

If you can get your saxophone to play midi like an EWI, that could work.

[@manuelgonzales6483]

Pretty good, but as a trumpet 🎺 player, to me it sounds simulated.

[@ComandoBurrito]

serum better

[@SerErris]

Nice Video, but you should listen again to a real Brass instrument - not a lot realistic in there. It sounds as artificial as any other non wavetable or 80s synth.

[@EricBowman]

Thanks, but sorry to hear the preset didn’t meet your standards. However, I assure you it’s not from a lack of hearing real brass since I spent about 15 years playing trombone professionally and got a doctorate in music playing a brass instrument.

[@SerErris]

@@EricBowmanIt is actually not my standards but the typical clickbait "Realistic Brass" and you just have to agree - no it is not realistic.

[@EricBowman]

@@SerErris Is it a 1:1 recreation of a brass performance? No, and that's not the label. It can be used for a realistic brass performance in the right context (example: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hma3mmhsmt57h7Msi=16Kr3l_nWwhrQQBD&t=106 ) and so far it's the most realistic brass patch for a synth that I've heard.

[@trackhero2714]

you have to be kidding or have some serious mental issues if this is your big takeaway LMAO. This isn't live instrument sampling. Its manipulating waveforms on a synthesizer, its never going to be truly realistic but this is damn good compared to what most people can do

[@SecretSun-Music]

sorry man, doesnt sound realistic at all

[@BossNkeyXay]

Really nice content thanks for that 🔥

[@weltering]

How did you know that wave warp makes a harmonic shift that sounds just like a sustained horn note?🤯 By ear, or was there some math/logic behind it?

[@EricBowman]

Just from experimentation :)