How to Release Manganese and Other Metals from Soil Reserves

[@gerrywalsh6853]

You have changed the way I look at the world and it has changed the way I am running my farm

[@richardruss7481]

Thank you again John, it always takes me so long to get through until the end of these podcasts, there is so much good information to take in. It goes faster the second time ;)

[@trenomas1]

Can we get reduced manganese by fermenting MnSo3 in a Liquid Plant Juice or Lactobacillus fermentation?

[@TheFarmacySeedsNetwork]

Happy Independence Day! Yes, my plant sap analysis showed deficiencies of Iron, Manganese, Copper and Zinc. I am supplementing with foliars for now, but glad to have long term solutions! So excited to hear this webinar! Thanks as always John! So each soil crumb is actually it's own mini-ecosystem... little mini lakes in the soil sort of. fascinating! Also, I will back John up here having used plant sap analysis as well as foliar feeds. TREMENDOUSLY powerful tools for increasing photosynthesis and crop yield and plant health while building better soils! AND Yes, the AEA line of Rebound traces.. works incredibly well!

[@donready119]

I have tissue tested crops for 30 years. Tissue sampling is good but can be misleading. A huge study in Iowa found no correlation between P and K tissue levels and final yields in corn and soy. These new concepts are interesting and answer some questions I have. Thank you for this.

[@robertstreit3835]

Very few university fertility researchers believe that foliar feeding works. Yet all yield winners and high yield achievers depend on foliar applications to supply needed plant nutrients. When quizzed about the work done in Univ trials their grad students who actually do the work are ignorant about which products, practices, day timings, plant growth stage timings, water quality, pH of the spray timings, pH adjustors, chelating agents used in the foliar materials, EC and exact ECs of the materials being sprayed. Other things apply. Once you begin to read about the contest winners and find out what procedures and products they are using, you are partly home, because what have learned does not include what those secrets those individuals don't reveal. They all have their secrets that they have honed thru practice and making their errors. Again another concept that needs to be learned is that with foliar nutrition, soybean plants especially, foliar applications are used to manipulate plant architecture and physiology. Those two items alone can help a grower steer their plants along a path that can produce maximum yield. Thus one has to ask which researcher jumped to those conclusions that tissue testing was not valuable. Did any of them personally walk the fields of Ray Rawson, Kip Cullers, Francis Childs, Jimmy Fredricks, and so on to learn how best to succeed? Did they study and read what was taught by HB Tukey and Patrick Brown? If they did not what they all learned was how to fail. Each grower has to learn from an interested grower who has succeeded in their quest to use tissue testing to help option high yields and not someone who has failed. Students of crop raising need to learn from winners, not losers. Today's farmers who expect to stay in business know they have to learn so much and that learning never stops. Now the lowest stave of the barrel theory still applies. You have to start somewhere when you design your fertility program. First on the list is a good soil sampling program where the analyses include the macro minerals, the mid minerals, and a number of the micronutrients. Next is in-season tissue testing, because a grower has to keep tabs on the mineral status within the plant, and be prepared to address any and all deficiencies. There are plenty of labs that can perform these. Tissue testing is like the pilot of the airliner you are flying in is expected to be observant of the planes gauge's constantly. Tissue testing and the analytical results. Looking into the future are advancements beyond tissue testing. Those I have worked with are sap analysis, of which there are a handful across the country that are accessible to all growers. Those are patterned after what two chemists/agronomist Soerdts and Jaon Timmerman from the Netherlands pioneered. Above and more immediate than tissue would be real time use of the X-Ray Defraction scanner. That machine is widely used could revolutionize soil fertility research since there is no wait to get results fast. It can be used as in the 1950s thru the 70s researchers more commonly used radioactive labeled fertilizers to track penetration and movement thru the plants.

[@adrianrubi824]

Dear John, thanks for all the great Webinars. I can highly recommend you to get in touch with Witte-Bio-Consult from Germany. He has a method of producing on farm, in a big scale, reduced compost, a kind of bockashi. He is focusing since many years on reduced forms of soil cultivation for cropping.

[@hosoiarchives4858]

Link?

[@triciaeverett3324]

It’s not in English

[@HarrisonCountyStudio]

Where can we find more information ‘Witte-Bio-Consult’?

[@donready119]

At 30:00, your comments about soil vs. foliar are spot on. I had good results with chelated Cu, Mn and solubor as well as 6-24-6.

[@smileysgarden]

I really appreciate the work you do and the information you share. Thank you

[@frankeklassen9776]

I cant find the 6 hour video, is it mandatory to give all of my personal information to view it or is there another way to see it?

[@chris432t6]

Excellent! Very useful and important info. Thank you!

[@stevenhaver]

43:45, 56:31 How can we make our own manganese chelated in a reduced form? Any suggestions? (AEA doesn’t ship to my country).

[@otivaeey]

John said to try Bokashi in 42:07. You can try KNF as well. There are many other sources of TE as long as they remain anaerobic/slightly anaerobic. I'm just trying to help you out as is my case in my country that I couldn't get AEA products at all. AEA product is absolutely different because is dry stable (Micronised minerals) whereas bokashi etc are not dry stable, so cannot be shipped. Anyway, john FTW.

[@paulbraga4460]

Steven, do you have an answer to your chelated manganese question?

[@stevenhaver]

@@paulbraga4460 Not for foliar sprays, no. I ended up going the longer route of spreading a mixture of manganese sulfate with lots of calcium carbonate and some brown sugar near the end of the growing season, then growing a cover crop of hull less oats. I plan to do this every year now. The oats really seem to help the microbes thrive. Slow and steady wins the race I guess.

[@paulbraga4460]

@@stevenhaver well, yes - slow and steady wins the race. if you have not tried JOHNSON-SU BIOREACTOR COMPOST, check dr. David C. Johnson youtube - results? - jump for iron and manganese - 1000%+. blessings

[@stevenhaver]

@@paulbraga4460 Awesome. Yes, I’ve been reading a lot about Johnson-Su reactors recently. It’s definitely on the road map, hopefully this year and if not definitely in the next year. Thanks.

[@nc4801]

So the AEA manganese product is in the reduced form, but it is also quite expensive. How can you turn it into the reduce form and chelate that manganese to make myself? Would store bought citric acid work? Also not sure how they turn it into the reduced form. Also, how toxic is this to apply as a foliar spray? I have a very small acreage and simply don't have the funds/resources to supply from AEA.

[@ashwinpatel4537]

Great John's Thanks a lot

[@anthonycopacetic5016]

I've noticed that when apply foliar sprays in a light drizzle i get the best response.

[@nickangelovski4358]

I tried to look up manganese in reduced form, the best I could come up with is the different types of sulphites: • Manganese Sulfate Monohydrate (MnSO4.H2O) contains 31-32.5% Mn. • Manganese Sulfate Tetrahydrate (MnSO4.4H2O) contains 25% Mn. • Manganese Sulfate Heptahydrate (MnSO4.7H2O) contains 20% Mn. Is there any chance you could do a presentation on this topic, I’m at a loss!

[@djtrack16]

what causes soil to oxidize in the first place? and how does one know when the soil is "excessively" oxidised? are there external markers visible to the naked eye that let you know this? Thank you!

[@JohnKempfVisionBuilder]

Answered at minute 5:08, for a deeper dive check out the free course on the academy here: www.academy.regen.ag/redox-potential/

[@sbsasser]

Tilling and aerating soil, they need gas exchange, but not fresh oxygen. It also kills the top 12” of soil and turns it back into sand and clay with some dead material in it. Not a living 12” deep compost pile on top of your field. When the soil is alive it stays in balance. Run a blender through it and it’s just oxidizing dirt like a rusty piece of metal in a field

[@mitchbrackenbury9370]

I'm from australia btw, was showing the neighbours a bag of bokashi and I wanted to make our own. How has the reasearch come since june? also what do i need to show them or explain to them that spraying/using poison/glyphosate, other than the fact I have pieced together myself that I may have a iron/mangenese problem by observing the chillies grow? Have you done large scale bokashi? can it be done with woodchips? will nothing germinate in the bokashi tho? ive found it eats up seeds.

[@TensegrityEnergy]

This burning effect of liquid manure can be managed making sure Eh / Redox is around 0 mV (through aeration). Even a high EC does not generate this burning effect as long as the Eh/redox is around 0 mv. Both a too low of too high Eh combined with an increasing EC yields this burning effect faster.

[@nicholasdu4]

This is over my head but I'm chewing on it. I can tell you're onto something powerful and that's exciting.

[@AdvancingEcoAgriculture]

We're all just trying to learn a little bit more each day, NicholasDu4-glad you've joined the fun :) - The AEA Team

[@nickkitchener6155]

The aerobic / anaerobic boundary or edge zone within that soil crumb structure is likely where all the action is happening. An analogy is the inter tidal zone where the ocean meets the land. This zone is neither totally anaerobic or aerobic, and it is where the highest concentration of life exists.

[@christopherburman3340]

In the Q and A somebody called Frank mentioned injecting atmospheric oxygen having a positive impact. I am considering installing a similar unit in a pomegranate orchard. does anyone have experience they can share about injecting atmospheric oxygen?

[@swinkeymo]

The link to the free course is not working.

[@AdvancingEcoAgriculture]

Hey Dan! This course is now available on Kind Harvest. LINK: kindharvest.ag/courses/ra-rps-redox-potential-eh-and-ph-as-indicators-of-soil-plant-and-animal-health-and-quality/

[@paulbraga4460]

Mn++ reduced, Mn+++ oxidized. what about iron? mygreathanks and blessings

[@kofrass5730]

I have been working very hard here in Chowchilla with Bob's biomass. I would like to meet with your crew and speak about regenerating soils with liquid mycelium bio char fermented in microbial liquid manure.

[@AdvancingEcoAgriculture]

Hi KOFrass, thank you for your interest in starting a disucssion! Please send an email to [e-mail] and include any relevant background information. - The AEA Team

[@johnroydelacruz1433]

What if i combine cooking oil and manganese sulfate ?

[@donready119]

Can you explain the limestone oxidizing effect? It raises pH which means less H+ (oxidizer) and more OH- (reducer). Also, you talked about salted water which hurts a cut. It would be concentrated. Seawater is soothing, as is a slightly salty nasal spray.

[@oscar6832]

I think you are mixing up the terminology and got it backwards. Basically, every molecule containing oxygen can be an oxidizing agent. Limestone (calcium carbonate, CaCO 3) can cause oxidation in the good old sense that the oxygen in CaCO3 can react with other elements to form an oxide. When Iron Fe2 reacts with oxygen, it becomes Fe2O3. Iron oxide. Oxygen is highly reactive. So when CaCO3 is said to be an oxidizing agent, it simply means it can let go of the oxygen and cause other elements to oxidate. It's actually an effective 'oxidizing agent'. The terminology can be confusing but Oxidizing used to mean when substances bonded with oxygen and formed an oxide. It later expanded to also meaning all oxygen like bonds, molecules with two parallel bonds. And thirdly, oxidizing can mean to be prone of stealing electrons, causing other elements to oxidize, in the sense that you were thinking of I believe.

[@partidaportet27]

God bless uou and your team John. I wanted to ask how the temperature of water, might impact the capacity for water to hold a reducing effect. Does the ratio of dissolved.oxygen counter an already reduced soil, or would high temperature water, such as that we find laying in standard black pipe irrigation in summer in zones above 9a impact the levels of oxygen and thus it's ability to reduce?y

[@JohnKempfVisionBuilder]

The reducing effect of water in soil is largely due to saturation and the exclusion of free oxygen, and the shift in microbial community this produces.

[@partidaportet27]

@@JohnKempfVisionBuilder yes but can the wide range of oxygen carried by water, depending on its varying temperature, have any significant bearing on selections or otherwise of microbial communities. Does.this variance tally with the waters.own state of Redox ?

[@HarrisonCountyStudio]

The range of pH would have a greater impact than temperature of the water.

[@partidaportet27]

@@HarrisonCountyStudio so are you saying water at 14centigrade pH6.0 is more reducing than water at 14c pH7.8? I know from consensus on reading that water carries less oxygen at higher temps i dont know how pH changes this. Its complex for sure

[@johnstone8821]

@@JohnKempfVisionBuilder ....your the best...your my inspiration...I am a Vampire from Transylvania...I will purchase a plot of desertic land in Spain...and I will apply Permaculture design in order to recover/regenerate the land...thank you ...thank you...thank you for all your free webinars...

[@chiraagshah269]

Very useful video, as usual. Regarding the question about injecting atmospheric Oxygen: Is injecting atmospheric Oxygen the same as injecting air? If this is the case, could the fact that air is almost 80% Nitrogen, account for the increased Rhizobia etc? Perhaps the Nitrogen is having more effect than the Oxygen in the air 🤔

[@JohnKempfVisionBuilder]

Air can be a positive because of the N2, and it does not have the same degree of oxidation as oxygen gas.

[@chiraagshah269]

@@JohnKempfVisionBuilderThank you for the response, which confirmed that air can be useful. I suppose my conjecture was that the Nitrogen was having a reducing effect. Tbh I am not looking at adding air in my current endeavours, but always find these concepts useful to digest.

[@nc4801]

Can anyone tell me how to raise the ph of soil without limestone? I was confused by that remark.

[@shelburnjames7337]

When plants are taken out of 24 hour lighting after say a year then placed outside the lose all their green the deer devoured them in the winter frozen every last one? Nothing else was touched...

[@shelburnjames7337]

Double chamber pot.. green onions deer recommend Cut 2 liter in half bottom pot no draining Inverted top is draining into bottom mix rice culture lower chamber anaerobic

[@shelburnjames7337]

They would make a salve from cow urine because it killed bacteria and the philosophers stone meant urine that was dehydrated then distilled until it formed a stone that was eternal life by the wayside

[@RickThePeasant]

Now I know why you use potassium thiosulphate (reduced form of potassium sulphate). What about calcium sulphate vs calcium thiosulphate? Its probably not worth the extra cost, in this case because of the quantity required.

[@kingsorchards3168]

Manganese deficiency has a very distinctive visual symptom across a number of plant species. Do you know the physiology of why it manifests as an interveinal chlorosis on the the edge of the leaf?

[@JohnKempfVisionBuilder]

Have not looked at this recently. I don't recall.

[@jimmartindale]

You stated succinctly that mechanical soil aeration procedures are unnecessary at some point in soil health advancement. For this to be true, then it would require God to relent from His command to till the soil. What say ye?

[@TACbaha]

Good question... but I wonder if God commanded the Hebrews to observe the Sabbath year to combat this. After so much tillage the soil is too consistently damaged. 🤷🏿‍♀️

[@shelburnjames7337]

Redox 17:00

[@miana3m923]

Hmm... Fusarium will multiplies in huge amounts within 12 hours in the water. This was done under microscope...