How to Ruin a Trout Fishery

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Recent changes in regulations have had reverberating impacts on the quality of Washington's trout fisheries. This coupled with a lack of adaptive management, poor monitoring, and a general unwillingness of regional biologists to listen to anglers has motivated me to make this video. I doubt it will have any real impacts but at least I've said my piece and showed what the sad state many of our local trout fisheries are now in.
Thanks for watching!

[@BC-ue3ku]

Good on you for presenting a solution to the problem as well Tyler. You can listen to any number of people everyday tell you what’s wrong with this or that but very few will ever offer a solution.

[@chadlundell3769]

Love this video and appreciate this content. As a Fishing junkie I love geeking out on this stuff and I appreciate when you lace into your content your depth of knowledge because of your education and professional background. I like to understand why the fish I’m chasing behave in a certain way and content like this helps me out a lot so thanks buddy!! Keep it up!! As for the questions regarding the simplification I think the spirit of the effort to simplify it was good but I think ultimately it should be left up to the biologists to manage each fishery according to its health and benefit not necessarily convenience and up to the sportsman who utilize these resources to understand the why behind the what. Ironically I think this is also a good example of old fashioned poor government management of just about everything they manage… throw more money at it that should solve it I.E they don’t see the money they are throwing at this problem in the form of planter rainbows as actually being a detriment to it and if they look deeper they would find the answer….

[@jkramer5512]

I think rule simplification is fine as long your management changes with those simplified rules. Thanks for the video.

[@kevinkompolt8033]

Excellent analysis. Totally agree that we need fishery management that makes decisions based on science and common sense. Your explanation makes sense and I would love to see a response from the district biologist at WDFW for your region. As for the complexity of the regs...I follow many angling blogs and user groups and people are always asking questions about regs and complaining about the complexity of the regs. I suspect most don't take the time to sit down with the pamphlet or online version and READ them. They instead look for the easy way out...someone on Facebook to explain it to them (even if info is incorrect.) Having a fishing license requires you to be an informed user if you care about the resource you are using. Is it really too much to ask for users to understand the rules? That being said....I do think there is room for improvement in HOW the regs are written so that they are easy to interpret. I also feel that better signage at access points would be helpful in informing people of the specific rules that apply to that body of water. Are there other bodies of water that you fish that you feel are well-managed? Might be an interesting follow-up piece to do.

[@timmoore6055]

It also helps if the agency does education as to why rules are different; just saying "Here they are; suck it up, buttercup" isn't a winning proposition for either side.

[@16snowboarder]

@@timmoore6055 WDFW should start having youtube videos explaining regulations at different fisheries across the state

[@BekahEmma]

@@16snowboarder If you have questions why not just give one a call? Many of the regulations for trout lakes are pretty straightforward, salmon regs can be a bit more complicated.

[@jacoblambert1336]

@@BekahEmma This is the digital age. I think it would be very beneficial for WDFW to produce more content involving the rule making process. (Videos, blogs, research papers, etc.) Making phone calls just to retrieve information is so old fashioned and not a desirable way to gather data and info. Garret makes a very good point, however, producing this content is going to come at a cost to the taxpayers.

[@Nex509]

What I find that drives change, is more people speaking up about it. There might not be enough voices to pressure these agencies. Keep making good content man. Always love your insight and commitment to fishing.

[@InvestorAcademyPodca]

Unfortunately the only language WDFW listens to is money, the governor or lawsuits.

[@billfaubion6295]

This video speaks for many of us --- thanks Tyler

[@mascatrails661]

Great discussion. Hope this video can grab the attention of someone with the power to make a difference. As a newer angler in a new state, the complication of the regulations was a bit daunting at first. "How many fish? Of what type? Where? What can I use to catch em?" Now with a bit more exposure and experience with disappointing fisheries, I would be happy to learn more intricate local rules if it helped the fisheries' success.

[@todgarred1450]

Excellent! I think you hit the nail on the head. What it boils down to is the lack of management! Laziness and not my job is killing everything and this is one great example.

[@tribunis_gaming6760]

I love watching your videos. Educational and I've learned a lot. I agree in regards to poor fish Management is happening more and more. Recently fished Hagg Lake, OR where the fish were covered in parasites and skinny, discolored and chewed fins. I went to another lake in the Mt. Hood region and they were the healthiest fighting fish I've seen.

[@HandledTrivia]

I used to be in favor of the simplified rules. You convinced me I was wrong.

[@davidf2699]

Really great work! I never knew about the grading scale for fish health.

[@stevew5212]

they seem to be managing people instead of the lakes and fish

[@Nik-gh6gz]

Very true

[@philiptrump8472]

This is the same case with many of the lakes in Washington now. This issue has only gotten worse and will continue to get worse. The department has lost my trust.

[@sfkeygrip]

I am in California and we have many of the same issues. One of the problems is that a lot of people I talk to get confused by the more complex rules and that scares away new anglers. Now that might be true however one simple solution would be have signs stating the rules at every lake. Most county lakes in Ca do that but the bigger lakes don't and it makes for a lot of confusion. Also I think in CA Fish and Wildlife is no longer about creating a sustainable environment to fish/hunt. Then add a few years of drought with the management not balancing the needs of the lakes with what is going on and you come to what we have now which is poor fishing in many lakes. And in the short term the only way to fix that complex management. Over time you can adjust to more simple rules but then they need to actually go out and do field work to see how a lake is preforming. And that probably mean hiring more people which they don't want to do.

[@terryd2634]

So glad you take the time to analyze the situation on our lakes. Seems like WDFW and or government always waits until it's to late to do the right thing. Nice video.

[@NorthwestOpenSeason]

I agree with simplifying the regs. Even seasoned veterans have difficulties understanding them at times, especially with salmon and steelhead and river systems. However that’s not a good excuse to neglectfully diminish a fishery. Sounds like our agencies need to start managing smarter, not harder

[@Nwfisher]

I don’t buy this. I fish year round both in salt and freshwater, for steelhead, salmon, and trout, and regularly limit out catch record cards. It’s not challenging to interpret the regulations. I hear this complaint a lot but if you have access to the internet (which you obviously do), it shouldn’t be hard to interpret anything in the annual pamphlet. Emergency rules are also put out regularly. Yes, there are many stipulations on some salmon and steelhead fisheries, but if you read it thoroughly, it’s not hard to figure out.

[@NorthwestOpenSeason]

@@Nwfisher - I appreciate your comment, and I don’t want to argue on this because I probably won’t be able to accurately get my point across. But my point was, for example, on one particular river in my area it is only open for coho retention above a certain bridge after oct 15, but then there’s no bait use allowed after oct 31, and closes for salmon January 1st but remains open for hatchery steelhead, and trout closes. There’s only a 15 day window to use bait to fish for coho. And it’s all brand new regulations this year. I just think someone new or who just wants to try fishing will have a hard time interpreting that accurately. I’m constantly being asked to help interpret regulations for people and I tell them to check the written regs, then the system regs, and then any online updates. I’ve even had law enforcement express their frustrations in keeping up with the changing regs at times to enforce them. In my opinion, I shouldn’t have to log onto the internet every time I want to go fishing.

[@oak8728]

@@NorthwestOpenSeason you have a smart phone, don’t lie. Download the app and regs are a 5 second ask, stupid argument.

[@Youmissedthejoke26]

Great video bro. Unfortunately this is all too common with government management of pretty much everything. There has to be a happy medium with simplified regs that are effective in maintaining a healthy fishery. Step 1 would be to hire you? Keep up. The good work ! Love the videos.

[@bobalcantara4045]

By far your most educational video I've seen. I would favor lake specific management and rules. WDFW stated that they wanted to make it easier and have statewide limits for kokanee and trout. If you spend sometime and go through the synopsis you will read that there are exceptions to their own wishes. Did they think that those who fish those lakes are any smarter than the ones who fish other lakes? Thanks again. Looking forward to your Kokanee Across America Tour.

[@ntc3gtr]

Split Milt for Fisheries Management Position at the WDFW

[@spiltmilt]

Haha. I walked away from that work a long time ago. I discovered long ago that shouting from the sidelines is as effective (sometimes more so) than trying to change things from within.

[@ShenpaiWasTaken]

I think rule simplification is nice, I'm also an adult and can deal with more complex rules; especially if there are good tools like the mobile app where it's easy to look those rules up. Did I miss the part where Tyler explained why there are more parasites? Really interesting video. I never considered lake management like that. I'd be super interested in Tyler's opinions on other fisheries.

[@heybubbah]

the parasites in a fishery like this are a result of stress from lack of readily available food as a result of overcompetition due to over-stocking.

[@wojomojo]

Thanks for the case study. I'm a bit confused about stock plants vs. fry. Are they all reported as plants on WDFW's web site, the difference being the size (inversely represented by "# of fish per lb")? Or do they plant fry separately but don't report them?

[@TheNewMediaoftheDawn]

Interesting, often less pressure means bigger and better fishing, but not always as seen there, as you mentioned fertility is big, there’s just not enough food. I read a piece where in a big lake in Maine, an increase in small lake trout limits had a dramatic and unforeseen effect, huge 3-6 lbs brook trout started showing up, from the increased forage base.

[@mountainmatthew]

I don't think the rules were ever that complicated. These days I just used the Fish Washington app. But I learned this year that they do a terrible job of keeping eregs up to date... However, The pamphlet doesn't actually have an update capability so I guess I can't really count that as a con.

[@chads3308]

Look at the big brain on you... Impressive sir..

[@ronnerviani426]

I totally agree with your comments in your video Tyler. I think you did a great job in explaining the reasons why the fishery has gone downhill. Here in California I see this happening a lot with the Kokanee Fisheries. Some good Kokanee lakes have been ruined by planting too many Kokanee. Kokanee are a great fish to eat but who wants to catch a 8"- 10" fish that doesn't fight or even release the line from the downrigger. Calif. Dept. of Fish and Wildlife just continue to plant to many Kokanee. In many cases they continue to plant fish without even knowing how many fish spawn naturally. They just continue to do what they have been doing for years. How do we fishermen get them to look at changing their ways?

[@spiltmilt]

Yes we have the same problem here. Numerous lakes that could produce 14"+ Kokanee only produce 11" Kokanee due to overstocking.

[@BekahEmma]

@@spiltmilt Which lakes are those? Is there a significant decline in zooplankton abundance throughout the year that would be indicative of over-grazing by kokanee? Could it be another issue? I would be willing to bet that your local bio would be happy to hear your ideas.

[@jonlobello7151]

About time you got some snow! You suffered thru far too much warm fall weather.

[@curtisyoungren3531]

The blanket management in Washington is just so lazy. They seem to hardly monitor their fisheries which makes it impossible to have any sort of adaptive management. Ive seen this in the salmon fishing throughout the state, the Kokanee and the trout and others. They just seem to not monitor it at all. They put out blanket rules and just call it good. The spring chinook seasons kill me because you hardly ever get checked. Thinking back, I got checked once this year after salmon fishing. You cannot get accurate data with such poor sampling.

[@PatrickMagee]

There was a serious problem with the quality of fish stocked by ODFW in certain lakes. Haag Lake was notorious for having nothing by 8" planters until they changed the hatchery source. Now there are plenty of larger, healthier fish. The regs had also been changed to have the lake open all year. Several years ago Trillium lake was planted with a bunch of 5" trout which were excellent biters but much too short to keep. Being a lake with heavy pressure the bank was lined with dead fish and the only fish dinners were being had by raptors.

[@spiltmilt]

Yes I noticed how good the fish looked up there last spring.

[@squamishfish]

The problem we are having in the lower Fraser River water shed around Vancouver BC is Bucket brigades , More and more over time people are introducing invasive species , Bass , Black Crappies , though they have not yet got into the Fraser River they are in the lakes and sloughs very close , This area is very important for Cutthroat and various Salmons and Dolly Varden And Steelhead smolts ,

[@stankfaust814]

I was yelling broken food chain due to overstocking at the beginning. They're doing the same thing in alaska with pumping millions of pink salmon fry into the system far in excess of historical levels (pinks have a quick return time to the river so the ROI is very good) but they go out and drastically interrupt the food chain. It's seriously driven down the grade of king salmon as less feed is available in the ecosystem

[@steveh.9023]

Great video, thanks for putting it up. We have the same issue here in the East, in some places. There's a lot of political pressure to overstock especially in popular tourist locations. What drives most of us "quality-minded" anglers crazy is when there is rampant stocking over wild, reproducing populations. But again, our tourism economy dictates that an abundance of hatchery fish be planted. The fear is people won't continue to visit (and spend lots of money) if they're not getting their 5-fish limits each time out while on vacation.

[@TacomaSteelhead]

Another great bag of info man. Question, if a lake is fry planted in WA is that listed on wdfw planting?

[@spiltmilt]

Yes they do say what kind of planting it is. It's pretty easy to pick out the fry planted lakes

[@BekahEmma]

All the lakes planted by WDFW hatcheries and private hatcheries are listed, whether they receive fry, finglerings, catchables, jumbos, etc... The 'weekly catchable trout' list is only fish from WDFW facilities.

[@ernieflynn5124]

Hey bud you are so right. I think a proper balance of catch and cook and catch and release is good for most waters. Let me know when you get to Utah bud.

[@boattothebelly]

Tyler, I absolutely agree with your scientific approach to common sense fisheries management. Only thing is WDFW doesn’t seem to care about public opinion. Not just fishing too. Hunting has been a disaster as well, especially their elk management.

[@boattothebelly]

This is the first time in over 30 years I will not hunt in WA. We have to pay more so we can have less access to our lakes and lands.

[@InvestorAcademyPodca]

@@boattothebelly Same here, I shoot ducks in WA but head east for all other game. At some point, the only thing they will listen to is if the revenue falls off a cliff and Inslee isn't there to cut a big check like last time. If we keep buying everything they are selling nothing will change.

[@boattothebelly]

@@InvestorAcademyPodca 100% agree

[@BekahEmma]

Rule simplification came about as a direct result of public opinion surveys.....

[@boattothebelly]

Funny you’d share that because the questions asked were ambiguous and misleading.

[@timmoore6055]

Complicated rules are rules designed to create best opportunity (however that may be defined). The first need is to explain why the rules are complex; the second need is to provide a reasonably easy means of defining for the person fishing what the rules are for a specific lake. It really is not all that hard to grasp that Lake A has a 2 fish limit, gear only; Lake B has a 5 fish limit with bait, or that a lake is fly only, 12" minimum. But you are right that there are factors outside the discussion impinging on the whole department. Sounds like a need for some specific, targeted, analysis driven lobbying - meaning ;helpful, rather than simply negative "it's all going to hell in a hand basket".

[@marktorsen6540]

I feel it is probably more work for wdfg but my personal opinion is that if we all put efforts in to enhancing fisheries, it would probably be better in the long run. Appreciate your explanation for people to see and hear.

[@chubbrock659]

It looks like you have your kayak on a high speed, how fast were you trolling for this video? Also, I am very impressed about your knowledge of the fishing management. I wish more people like you were in charge here in Utah.

[@spiltmilt]

1.7 mph

[@asully70]

I prefer simple rules but wouldn’t mind complex rules if the reasons behind the rules were explained. I think there is a huge disconnect between ODFW/WDFW setting rules and fisherman understanding the reasons why they set those rules. I also think there is a huge disconnect between the data and research ODFW/WDFW have access too and what the actual conditions are and what is actually happening real time on the water. I think this fall chinook season on the lower Columbia was a good example of that but I’m not an expert on the science. On top of all the things I mentioned, there is a money/commercial aspect behind every decision made and I think a lot of the management decisions go out the window for the $$$

[@sonsofthesea6859]

We have a similar problem here in Northern California but we don’t get enough fish plants on the season

[@wyotahoutdoors905]

Thats too bad, looks like a nice lake. As a biologist Ive seen these same issues in some places in Wyoming and Utah. Your video made me think of and Aldo Leopold quote from the Sand County Almanac,

[@TacomaSteelhead]

Makes me think of our local kokanee lakes. One was limit 10, the other was 16. Supposedly simplified to 10 for either because people were moving back and forth to both lakes, so counting limits was difficult…. The 16 limit, has historically smaller kokanee.

[@spiltmilt]

The limits on Yale really should be closer to 30 fish. If they could some halfway decent pressure on that lake the average size would rival its downstream neighbor.

[@robertadams9409]

Another great video!!!! Hope that someone who is in WDFW sees this!!! Might be a wake up call to them!

[@spiltmilt]

Doubt it

[@BekahEmma]

@@spiltmilt Do you? I think they watch your stuff...and wish you would reach out directly.

[@MAGA-SISU]

Follow the money. I managed a 240,000 acre conservation easement that the state of California wildlife agencies were very interested in. It takes actual boots on the ground input (as yourself) to give the needed input (although it may fall on deaf ears) to convey what really needs to happen to achieve the stated goals. In the end the gigantic lumbering agencies are not the answer, they need to be abolished and reimagined to serve those who pay the tab.

[@richardvillanueva8786]

Communist manifesto 101

[@jacoblambert1336]

I really wish WDFW published more about the reasoning behind their regs. If they produced even a quarter of the content that you did, then that'd be satisfactory. As a goverent entity, they should be inclined to listen to the people about the local fisheries. But I think the last 2 years especially have shown that government is not a resource for the people. They simply impose rules and regulations based on their own motives. In this instance, they don't care to put in the time and research and instead put in place a universal rule that had a negative impact on various fisheries. I hope that your video fires up more fishermen and fisher women to speak up on these important topics.

[@BekahEmma]

Jacob Lambert there is a lot going on here, and, unfortunately many false assumptions. The truth is, if you live in central WA your District Fish Bios are a phone call away and DO listen to angler concerns and complaints. Unfortunately here Tyler isn't giving a full picture of what is going on at Rat Lake. This is a year-round selective gear lake and anglers are allowed 2 fish over 14". With the fires this summer this lake got a lot less angler effort than was expected and consequently less harvest. There are more trout in the lake than was anticipated and condition is a bit lower than desired. One or two phone calls to the local district bio would have allowed Tyler to explain the situation a bit more accurately and, quite frankly, based on the lengths other bios have gone to in order to address his other concerns, would have been the right thing to do. Your comment, "They simply impose rules and regulations based on their own motives. In this instance, they don't care to put in the time and research and instead put in place a universal rule that had a negative impact on various fisheries." is inaccurate. Regulations are put in place on trout managed lakes in order to either manage for large fish (on lakes with selective gear rules) or a lot of reasonable size fish for anglers to be able to harvest their 5 a day (opening day and year-round gear lakes). There are no 'own motives' unless wanting to create good fisheries is a motive unique to only govt. bureaucrats. For you to say "they don't put in the time and research" is simply wrong! I happen to know that the bio who manages Okanogan County lakes works hard to ensure that his fisheries are performing well. He also is free with his time to meet with angler groups who are interested in lake management.

[@manfredstrappen7491]

I agree with Tyler but something tells me WDFW is just responding to public pressure and/or surveys. Obviously WDFW knew what worked before but got pressured to change. The whole problem with state wildlife management agencies are that they’re usually overly-funded by license and tag sales so it comes down to managing for funding vs wildlife/fish. So they send out a survey to ask what angler like/don’t like and you can bet that most said “it’s too complicated” (which was actually 2nd place to “It costs too much” by the people who don’t understand how costs of living/labor goes up with everything else). You can bet plenty of field biologists don’t like changing the rules but the bean counters in Olympia have the last word.

[@KaliAndy2]

good observations. Do you know if these stocker trout are triploid? If there is not much food, fish don't reproduce and have low limits to catch the stockers obviously going to be a problem. Some areas I fish they started reintroducing native wild Lahontan cutthroats. In more popular lakes they get fished out pretty quick. But there are a couple lakes I go to with gnarly dirt roads very few are willing to drive. Since they did some plants 3 years ago all shores along those lakes are teeming with minnows. Most fish I catch there now are all 15-20in+ and super healthy. Limit is 5, I usually keep 2-3 and their bellies are mostly full of minnows. Those couple lakes turned into nice self-sustaining wild fisheries. Trying to protect stockers is kind of dumb. They should be planted to be caught. I think restrictions on size vs lowering limit to 2 would probably work better at your lake.

[@spiltmilt]

They are not triploid but they do not successfully reproduce. There are only a handful of lakes in Washington state with naturally reproducing populations of Rainbow Trout.

[@reapergrim76]

Great video! 👍

[@daleleavitt]

Institutional inertia has been the real problem. One size fits all does not work. WDFW has been missing the point for years.

[@brotherbax4083]

In Oregon the fishing reg book is 100 pages with lots of “exceptions” to the general rules for individual bodies of water. Sometimes it feels like you need a lawyer to interpret them, but if you take the time to understand them before going out, it’s okay to me. I would like to think that level of detail represents good management. Sure, simpler rules would be nice, but I wouldn’t want them at the cost you’ve demonstrated here: reduced participation and unhealthy fish populations. Adaptive management makes sense. Given this video is almost a year old now, have you received any feedback from WDFW about this particular lake? Thanks for the informative video!

[@spiltmilt]

Our local fish bio doesn’t ever respond to my videos or even to my emails for that matter. However, he did switch this lake to heavier plants of Brown Trout which are more resistant to copepod parasites.

[@shermsmith317]

Above the norm on an intelligent analysis, as usual. What is the primary food source? Did the recent fires have an impact on available insect source? Would the fires even influence the fishery as much as the stocking rate?

[@spiltmilt]

No fires around this lake or in its drainage. The food source is primarily invertebrates.

[@brunodogish]

I have ice fished this lake the last 3 winters and I have seen the parisites on the fish also and you can't catch a leagle 14 inch fish here. lots of small starving skinny fish. What a shame. Shame on you WDFW. Thanks for your video and you advise to them.

[@mountainmatthew]

How does WDFW operate? Do they send people out to sample these fish to determine how to stock them or do just see a decline in fisherman and dump an un healthy amount of fish in a lake? How do we as anglers let WDFW know what kindas of fish we are catching so that they can the appropriate adjustments?

[@spiltmilt]

There is no official reporting system. A citizen driven reporting system might help because monitoring my regional biologist is sparse at best

[@BekahEmma]

(Speaking for central WA) Each local District Fish Biologist monitors their lakes to determine the size distribution of the fish as well as the amount of fishing pressure the lakes get. A lake's management category determines how many fish are stocked. For example, year-round trout lakes (5 fish/angler/day) in Grant County receive ~200 fingerlings per surface acre; however this can vary depending on how much fishing pressure the lake gets as well as angler reports. A selective gear (single barbless, artificial only, one or two-fish per day) lake like Dry Falls receives 66 rainbow trout per surface acre in order to produce larger trout on average. (NOTE: this stocking rate was reduced several years ago to produce larger rainbow for anglers) Dry Falls is a March1-Nov. 30 selective gear fishery with very little harvest. It is impossible to conduct a thorough creel survey on a lake to know precisely what harvest rates and average fish size are due to time limitations and the lack of attention other lakes would receive. So, fish bios will often have several people who call them regularly to report on their fishing success. Stocking rates don't often change dramatically year-to-year. Hatcheries have to know what to expect well in advance in order to have fish ready to go in early spring.

[@edbarton6489]

What were you using as lures for the trout?

[@spiltmilt]

Spoons and wooly buggers

[@TwoStageTrigger]

I do feel some states overregulate. In Utah we have a year round season. Salmon is off when they spawn, and some rivers are off for trout (cutthroat) spawn as well. Statewide limits except special rules on certain waters. Idaho and Wyoming rules give me a headache. I memorize Utah's rules, and the ones that change each year.

[@65LB]

What about trying to establish "food" fish/other organisms. Does the lake have enough "food" to support them?

[@timmoore9736]

I prefer rules which are intelligible; and complexity can be broken down if one takes the time to work at it. Part of what would help is to join end users in working on the intelligibility. Wildlife employees tend to be over-worked, under paid, and too beholden to bureaucrats who seem to forget that the worker bees are there not just to follow whatever labyrinth the bureaucrats choose to create (or perpetuate), but are valuable not only to the bureaucracy but also to the public. And the public is the reason (sometimes lost sight of) for the who organization.

[@pmm422]

I have to tell you that having to do a research project every time I wanted to go fishing was a huge deterrent for me. So if you can keep the state wide rules and adjust the stocking to match the take that would be my preference. Even better would be to spend just a little bit of time and money to actually include the specifics for the body of water you are in within the phone app. The phone app they have just plain SUCKS.

[@colinboomars2503]

Back in fall 2015 I went there a week before they killed the lake for a invasive species. Fishing was hot and a lot stockers. But healthy. Dose anyone know what might have been the invasive species? The only other fish we caught was Perch.

[@BekahEmma]

Rat Lake was treated due to the presence of (I believe) bullhead and perch perhaps.

[@gregwellens7742]

I see the same lackadaisical resource management when it comes to upland bird hunting as well. Their is no desire to improve habitat by working with the farmers. It seems that all they’re interested in is enforcement.

[@spiltmilt]

I don't have a ton of experience with upland gamebird management. I know that they did shift this year's forest grouse to reduce harvest pressures on hens with broods and in my local wildlife areas they do plant a lot of grain for pheasants and waterfowl but it does vary substantially across the state.

[@gregwellens7742]

I have watched pheasant habitat decline substantially in the Palouse region over the last 30 - 40 years. Whitman County used to be a destination pheasant county for people from all over this region. While I understand farming practices play a huge role in that decline, I have not seen any regional programs that have had an impact on reducing the continuing decline in habitat.

[@mccurjm]

Would the best immediate change to this lake be to "simplify" the rules to get rid of selective gear rules across all seasons until the population can get under control. Then they could maintain the stocking rate that would likely need to be in place once the fishery is back to a healthier state.

[@spiltmilt]

That would work

[@mccurjm]

Another idea is to stock the lake with kokanee fry, assuming that it would support a kokanee population. That would supply food for the rainbows while the kokanee were fry, and then the adults would provide alternate fishing opportunities without directly competing with the rainbows for food. The kokanee may also help keep the copepods under control by eating them when they're in their larval stage, but I don't know the copepod lifecycle well enough to be confident of that.

[@mccurjm]

@@BekahEmma - Tyler addressed the reduction in angler use in the video. It would be expected to have a big reduction in angler usage if any season was changed to "selective gear rules" from less restrictive rules. There already was a change to regulations so that consistency of regulations is already gone.

[@hamoonjahanroshan4458]

What kind of a kayak are you using? I love it!

[@spiltmilt]

Old Town AutoPilot 120. It is awesome!

[@MrKoobuh]

More complex/lake specific rules aren't really needed if management is being done properly. All WDFW has to do is track fish abundance/condition in stocked lakes; something we pay them to do anyway. Keep in mind, 38 years ago when I started fishing, the fishing regulation pamphlet was 1/16" thick, a few dozen pages, and still listed the major watercourses and any special rules for those. Why do we need a phonebook size rules pamphlet? Certainly not because fishing opportunities have increased that much. The money paying people to edit and come up with these special rules would do more good going to biologists in the field collecting real world data.

[@heyjim52]

There are lots of lakes like yours in Washington state that need help and are mismanaged . Lakes with stunted fish or low fish populations due to lack of food .

[@dallaswood4117]

People very frequently think low harvest and more stocking equals better just as this example points out it can be just the opposite

[@FishfearmeStudios]

This is what happens when they worry about registration and ticky tack tickets to get revenue but care not for the fish because they have no revenue motivation. Harvesting can be such an important part of a fisheries health. So many people don't understand that.

[@davidbarclay4968]

Your logic is completely sound. If they wanted to simplify the rules and increase stocking they should have kept those winter rules for the whole year and open the summer fishery to more catch and keep.

[@macsmith2092]

What are those parasites? Are they safe to eat those fish? I have started seeing them (or something similar) on trout and walleye in a lake near me.

[@spiltmilt]

Copepods. They are still sage to eat.

[@stevebirdsall6138]

I prefer the simplified rules, the challenge is that this makes WDFW's job harder. That then requires more thought and effort by a government agency that is trapped by "it's what we've always done". It will take leadership and innovation to change the status quo.

[@orviskid]

You think that’s bad come to CT some time. Skunked almost every time out maybe acouple fish 12”. Thats a gold mine you got there

[@spiltmilt]

Interesting I follow several CT anglers and they seem to catch really nice trout consistently. I would not consider 10-12" skinny diseased fish a gold mine.

[@orviskid]

Not sure who you’re following but no they aren’t catching nice fish, maybe in the farmington but not the lakes. Those skinny diseased fish beat us hands down

[@spiltmilt]

Maybe you just suck at fishing 🤣

[@Carlb328]

Here in Texas fishermen complain about them removing weeds from lakes and then there's less fish because that's where their food was.

[@bigbodyalan]

I remember going with my dad to that lake catching healthy trout but now mostly the trout there are nasty looking

[@spiltmilt]

Yup. It's sad.

[@montanaoutdoors6217]

I hate simple regulations. Montana just changed their hunting regulations drastically to appease out of state hunter to make it "simpler" hope it doesn't ruin a great wild game population much like what happened to this lake

[@matthewreed5658]

It's not just in freshwater, salmon as well. Has to do with the absolute system crashing. Just wait ten years it's gonna get very noticeable. The crazy part is we keep funding WDFW to basically do absolutely nothing.

[@richardvillanueva8786]

There absolutely aware of what there doing It's extremely disturbing

[@MrKoobuh]

Salmon fishing will probably end (for recreational anglers) within 10 years or less, due to the need to preserve the southern resident Orcas. Rather than managing the burgeoning pinniped populations they'll take the easy way out. Native commercial fishing won't be impacted to speak of though.

[@Jarom.M]

WDFW doesn't want to spend the money to assess fisheries after the rule change. Sounds to me like it was all about the money: simplify regs to get more people fishing while not spending the money it takes to successfully manage the changed fisheries.

[@Jarom.M]

@@BekahEmma As the video is specifically about this freshwater change and the evidence presented in the video demonstrates that the fishery isn't healthy, that's how I arrived upon my conclusion. If their goal was to create healthy fisheries, they would be taking action to support healthy fisheries. Granted that the sample size is a single lake so it might not be significant. According to your comment, WDFW is focused on a healthy walleye fishery, not a trout fishery, so while it might pertain to WDFW as a whole, it is moot in reference to trout.

[@lindahumason5870]

What lake is this?

[@davidpelto8824]

It seems to me that govt employees are focused on their pay, benefits, and retirements. Down here in Ore-gone they seem to believe that managing a resource means restricting it's use rather than optimizing it's production. They make sure to give a generous portion of the deer, elk, and salmon to the wolves, cougars bears, and sea lions... but the people who actually pay to raise and protect the resource: they are burdened with endless fee increases, and incomprehensible regulation changes. You need a pamphlet...a cell phone...a GPS...and a lawyer, to fish in the columbia.

[@spiltmilt]

State agencies hands are basically bound on issues around Wolves and Sea Lions as those are dictated by federal laws. Cougars is an issues in some game management areas but so far from what I've seen the impact of poaching are far more reverberating than cougar in Oregon. It sucks that you need a pamphlet and cell phone and a GPS to fish now a days but I'd rather have to navigate emergency regulations and still have the opportunity fish then have them close the fishery all together.

[@xxPigpen]

If they're going to keep the simple rules they need to increase the fry for the fish to eat and increase the number of fish you can take. Maybe allow you to use some bait. The condition of the fish there is inexcusable.

[@BourbonForageFishing]

The rules don't need to be simplified. The way the RULEBOOK IS WRITTEN is the issue. It's horrifying in it's lack of easy straight forward understanding. The fact is they could simplify every lake and rules would still be difficult to understand. This is pretty typical when employees have no real world experience in markets and live in a sheltered bubble of public sector jobs. I could write the rule book in half the pages in way easier to understand. It's like trying to go through a scavenge hunt or something. It's mind blowing.

[@BourbonForageFishing]

The RULE BOOK is the real issue. Not the rules themselves!!!!!!

[@dorsalfishing]

Our bureaucrats just dumped 40,000 fingerlings in my favorite lake because they had no where else to put them. My only hope is that the browns put a dent in them before they starve out the smaller fish. I might start tracking the k factor to see what happens over the next few years. As of two days ago the rainbows were running 14-18" and looked fat and happy.

[@spiltmilt]

Lets just dump fish wherever and hope it all works out....

[@BekahEmma]

Dorsal Fishing Which lake are you referring to? Sometimes the hatcheries call up the local fish bio and tell them they have a surplus of fish, since they didn't get the mortality they might have expected. OR, the lake they were intended for is on the list to undergo a rehab the following year and they don't want to stock it with fall fingerlings. I know this year a hatchery had a surplus of rainbow trout which were subsequently stocked into a large local reservoir that produces large rainbows. There is high mortality on stocked rainbow in this reservoir (more like a BIG Pothole...) but those that survive grow incredibly well and get large.

[@dorsalfishing]

@@BekahEmma Rock Lake in Whitman county. The excuse wdfw uses is that the lake has "huge carrying capacity" but I have never been able to track down an actual study(it was probably conducted before computers existed). It's a complex, multi species fishery with both stocked and naturally spawning fish so it would be nice to see a more, well...managed approach to what gets dumped in there. The only research boat I've seen down there was the one I was on. It would actually be nice to see an updated assessment of the lake.

[@mike.j]

I think one of the biggest problems facing the fish managers is fry survival. If they could figure out how to get trout fry to survive, then they wouldn’t need to plant catchables at all, and lakes would tend to find an equilibrium between fry that feed the larger fish and fry that become the larger fish. The reason we don’t see diseased and tattered kokanee is that they’re all stocked as fry.

[@spiltmilt]

Sure BUT catchables aren't surviving either so what's the risk in going all fry in a lake that receives little to no harvest pressure in the first place. The interesting thing is that if you move over to Grant County, where a different fish biologist is in charge, fry planted lakes are far more common and the quality of those trout are considerably better in those lakes.

[@BekahEmma]

Fry (200 fish per pound and fingerlings 80-90 fish per pound) are stocked at various rates depending on the regs for that lake (Year round, opening day, selective gear). WDFW fish managers expect high losses of juvenile fish, but stock enough so that a suitable amount make it through the predation gauntlet. For example, the fish bio in Grant and Adams Counties stocks year round lakes at a rate of ~200 fingerlings per acre. This has proven to produce 1 year old fish that average 11-13 inches by the following spring and 2 year old fish that average 13-15 inches.

[@stevepederson1736]

Every body of water has its own characteristics, food production, type of fishes, water conditions, natural predators, fishing pressure, and a host of other factors that all play a part in the natural biology of any body of water. To think that uniform/simplified fishing rules, that apply to every body of water will work, is any agency’s folly! Just pure laziness in my opinion . Now the way the regulations are written up, in such a confusing manor, many times so badly that they could almost be considered entrapment themselves! The regulations as they are written is what needs to be simplified. Just think of the young, first time sportsman, just trying to start out with no mentor and afraid of getting a citation. What If they read/interpret it wrong??? May be better just not to go.......

[@InvestorAcademyPodca]

You mean they have to leave the office? Surely not leave the truck though.

[@williamwortman6698]

Do you think this lake, through more appropriate management, can recover and become the fishery it was?

[@spiltmilt]

Absolutely.

[@Jrza7x]

I feel like WDFW has this approach on everything they do, it's very unfortunate

[@davidmelendez4729]

Holy cow! If people are harvesting them the state rules should be revised fishery to fishery. Really sad to think these end up on dinner plates.

[@bebobgtz]

Sad reality, but pretty common these days. What they should do is go away from catchable trout and plant mostly fry in that lake. The strong ones will survive, the rest will become food for holdovers. Thanks for showing some common sense. Now we just need to figure out a way to put you in charge of WDFW or ODFW😬

[@BekahEmma]

@@bebobgtz Often, catchables are planted in lakes that have competing species like perch, carp, bullheads, since these species directly compete with, and consume juvenile trout. You could still stock fry in these lakes but it's a huge gamble since they may not grow due to being out competed for food resources by other species. Hatchery trout are easily displaced by wild fish and are not good food competitors (See the Madison River study from a few decades ago)

[@InvestorAcademyPodca]

They could have made the regs consistent on the more liberal side too. Unfortunately I think this is the case with most of the wildlife they manage. I'm impressed with the way they manage shellfish but fish and big game it seems hard to find someone that cares or has favorable impressions of hunters and fishermen. When you do, all you hear about is how their boss won't let them do anything productive. WDFW has such a different posture and culture than the surrounding states, it's night and day.

[@spiltmilt]

Agree. I love how the shellfish fisheries are managed. They are very transparent about how they monitor populations and toxins and the maps that show Beach closures and reasons for closures are also excellent.

[@kylemcteague558]

I think a lot of anglers like simple rules but clearly that’s not good for that lake.

[@HungryH1951]

Sometimes it seems that the WDFW either don't have a clue what they are doing or else we have some misguided, possibly ignorant, possibly twisted, people directing it. It seems like they do know how to do something thing quite well. > Screw up our lakes and the fishing for everyone. We deserve better than what we are getting.

[@nncrf450r5]

I vote to put this guy in charge of all WA fishing regulations.

[@ElliottMorris]

I second the motion! Seriously, a few comments/questions for you, Tyler. Along this thread, I know WDFW is looking for advisory members. Did you throw your hat in the ring? Also, with respect to the skin parasites, how are they related to the size of the fish? I've caught apparently healthy trout in lakes (e.g. Curlew) that had them, but I assume undernourished trout are more susceptible to parasites. Lastly, thanks as always for the great content!

[@nicksenones205]

this is not sarcastic in any means, have you tried to either get a job with them , or at least advise them? they could use someone with your education AND also a fisherman. I can relate from my job to yours, in wdfw theres probably a bunch of marine biologists that only know what they see on paper. Im a sheet metal worker, many engineers only know what they learned in school and whats on paper, but they don't have real world experience

[@spiltmilt]

I would seriously doubt they would hire me and based on their recent actions of Black Bear management and Willapa Bay commercial salmon fishing the agency isn't even following the recommendations of their biologists. I know several biologists who work for the agency and all of them seem rather unhappy with their careers.

[@16snowboarder]

Maybe this is an issue of budgetary constraints and not enough officers to enforce the rules. I'd be hard pressed to believe that management didn't know this would happen, their not that stupid, or maybe they are.... :/

[@spiltmilt]

Not a budgetary issue

[@16snowboarder]

@@spiltmilt well that's not very good to hear. Is this a case of inept fisheries managers then?

[@spiltmilt]

yes

[@modrarybivrana5654]

could it be as simple as one department doing the harvesting analysis and rule making while another department in charge of stocking? Off course they do not talk to each other.

[@BekahEmma]

No, the local District Fish Biologist does it all.

[@chads3308]

Considering I have a 8th grade education (GED yes) I find the rules are about as difficult to understand as humanly possible, Even with simplified.

[@jessrobinson4081]

WDFW is in the process of destroying Hunting in Washington with their anti-hunter Commission so why wouldn’t they destroy fishing as well?

[@oly884]

Sadly this seems on par for the WDFW. I don't enjoy the simpler rules, as you noted it causes unforseen issues. Their website is harder to navigate, the app can be handy if you have a connection to the internet but has to download data every time you open it. Overall I get the impression that the WDFW doesn't really care anymore and it's just another governmental body that poorly serves those they are supposed to be supporting. Thanks for making the video to highlight, with actual data, the issues going on today.

[@kevinb8527]

Couldn’t agree more. They have screwed up the salmon a ton too. Every fisherman locally (western wa, marine area 11) sees the MASSIVE amount of Seals that have moved into the area that are decimating the salmon runs. Wdfw does nothing about it and seems to welcome more of them into the area. Also their massively confusing rule books (and the crappy app) are a joke.

[@oly884]

@@kevinb8527 agreed about salmon as well. You'd think with all the issues about declining orca populations, they'd go after the seals even more.

[@kevinb8527]

@@oly884 You would think so but unfortunately I think they base their “plan” more on public perception (worried about pissing off the Seattleites) than on what’s truly good for the animal populations.

[@spiltmilt]

Its true predation management is completely out of WDFW's hand. Sea lions, Caspian terns, and cormorants are all protected by federal law. That doesn't totally absolve WDFW role in salmon decline. They spent a million dollars building a new hatchery on the Lewis River that hasn't delivered a single harvestable spring chinook run since it opened. Prior to that the Lewis River was once a legendary river that supported one of the most productive salmon fisheries in the world. So much for the argument that not enough $$ is invested in hatcheries because even when they get a new state of the art hatchery they still can't produce squat with it.

[@brandonbujak9904]

Throw 100 northern Pike in that lake, I bet that will help.

[@spiltmilt]

Lol 😂

[@mid-jump_attack]

It's sounds like you're on to something with overpopulation. Sadly, I bet most people would be happier with 5 skinny trout than 1-2 large nice looking trout. Just curious, do you think that climate and bug biomass have anything to do with what you're noticing? Good interesting video!

[@spiltmilt]

Invertebrate biomass is a factor as it related to trout stocking density. These lakes can only produce so much biomass and each step you move up the food chain the fewer individuals it can support. All of our lakes are getting warmer and warmer but this lake is spring fed, deep, and forms a strong thermocline in the summer.

[@mid-jump_attack]

@@spiltmilt Had to look up "thermocline", Always learning, love the channel.

[@rushintofishin81]

Let’s not forget how WDFW is ruining the salmon fisheries in Washington. Why are the runs getting so bad, why are poachers not getting caught?

[@matthewackerson7861]

If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand.

[@spiltmilt]

🤣🤣🤣

[@TheHappySmileyFace12]

What if they also introduced some kind of feeder food that reproduces easily to keep these fish fed, a hungry fish is more susceptible to disease that’s why they’re in such bad shape

[@spiltmilt]

We don't really have any small native fish that will reproduce in these lakes so they don't do that.

[@elijahs4914]

…So are you saying that you ruined a lake just in 5 years? Stop fishing dude!

[@spiltmilt]

All my fault 😂

[@elijahs4914]

@@spiltmilt I'm joking man! You are absolutely right - WDFW isn't helping

[@ThaxorSmash]

No surprise... we'll all be strictly bass fishermen within our lifetime.

[@NorthwestOpenSeason]

Funny you mention that. Last year I found myself buying a couple new bass rods and new gear as I slowly pushed the salmon and steelhead gear down the rack…😔

[@edbarton6489]

What were you using as lures for the trout?