How to Solve the 5E DM Crisis Once and For ALL (Ep 296)

[@erc1971erc1971]

“ first level characters have already conquered, darkness, thirst, hunger, and gravity.” This sums up the problem quite nicely.

[@tuomasronnberg5244]

It's not a problem but the system working as intended. 5e is for high powered heroic adventures, not OD&D style dungeon crawling. If you use a hammer when you needed a saw then blame your failure on yourself, not your tools.

[@1techdave]

So your saying that its the DMs fault because the game has been designed only to be played high level and epic story telling, that if it is difficult then you suck as a dm? Uh um I think you missed the point... By the way a side question for you if the game is meant for high level play, then why is there a level 1?

[@digitaljanus]

You know, there are people who started playing RPGs with games like Champions, Marvel Superheroes, Rifts, Shadowrun, etc. where those things never or rarely ever come up, and it was never an issue. Why is suddenly a problem in the sword-and-sorcery game if those things are irrelevant?

[@Jay-bz6zs]

There are different types of stories to tell, different types of campaigns/games to run, but I sorely miss the dungeon exploration and survival aspect of DUNGEONS and Dragons, a pillar of D&D made moot by 5e character design (and perhaps some other editions). I recommend moving to Old School Essentials or similar. It allows you to run that kind of game without drastically changing/limiting 5e rules.

[@mandisaw]

@@digitaljanus Because drama requires tension & challenge. Sci-fi & superhero games get their drama usually from interpersonal conflict, or PvE mechanics that lean more into using fantastic tech/powers to accomplish fantastic things. While fantasy settings certainly can also use both of those, D&D specifically tends to lean hard on more low- to mid-level PvE challenges, like stealing, spying, or surviving. It's possible - and fun! - to have a high-magic, high-stakes D&D adventure, but everyone would really need to be onboard with that, and possibly accept that you're starting near the peak of the drama-curve, not the bottom.

[@BobWorldBuilder]

This video builds so well on Ben’s. It’s great to hear the talk about solutions to this DM issue

[@Dereliction2]

Isn't the solution just to move to editions within the space that aren't experiencing DM issues? It really is that simple. People who insist on only playing 5E (or the upcoming 6E) are disabling their prospects, all for a mindset that is not a virtue.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Hey Bob. Thanks!

[@priestesslucy]

@@Dereliction2 I mean if it creates more of a market for Pro GMing that's not entirely a bad thing. Pick a game with a better GM ratio or pay to play lol

[@ThreeFortyThree]

@@Dereliction2 I mean, my issue is finding players for my non-5E games. I thought there were more than enough DMs for it, so even though I really enjoy it, I usually post for other systems. If I'd known that 5E players were having this issue, I'd have written up the LFP posts a while ago!

[@leem2155]

never thought i’d hear the prof say “based”… i’m proud of you prof

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

My students taught that to me.

[@ibeatcodin1day]

Based

[@CausticCatastrophe]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 based prof

[@EteraRPG]

came down to the comments looking for this

[@pergproductions]

It's like hearing my dad say "bussin". It feels wrong

[@owenbloomfield1177]

My daughter wants to DM (she's almost 18) but thinks she needs to create a world and big storyline. She also wants to do this. I told her to keep her first one really simple and just a dungeon crawl. She doesn't want to hear it and is intimidated by the process. I made my first dungeon at age 10 using the old red book and the Haunted Keep as an example.

[@Dereliction2]

You're on the right track. If she can't run a dungeon, she'll never be able to run a world. However, you can introduce something even more atomic to her. Tell her, "As a 'test', just run a single room encounter." It sounds eminently digestible, and it is. Her confidence will soar after that little taste.

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

I mean I my first time playing a TTRPG was at age 25 and GMed my own pre-alpha of an Universal TT Wargame/RPG with the RPG part being like a week old and had next to no prep for the adventure but the seasoned DND players/DMs 3 times my age loved it and we had an epic sandbox adventure that lasted 3 month of 9 hours sessions every week with 6-8-12 players... So yeah no prep is best prep just get out there a roll some dice.

[@braydenb1581]

My first DM campaign was basically every sit down was last minute based on the last cartoon show I watched. Like Avatar the last air bender finding a library sunken in the desert, boom that's what my players were coming across. If we were on the ocean or in a forest from last time, well a library was gonna be there, sunken into the ocean or buried among the roots of trees. And then I'd tailer the events of the show I liked to work within the current story. Some plot holes, sure. But most players, at least the ones I ran with, just wanted to have fun so weren't too obsessed over it. I think too many people see critical role and want these epic moments but that comes with time. You can't pick up a guitar and shred some Iron Maiden all a sudden.

[@justinblocker730]

Keep It Simple Silly -KISS

[@owenbloomfield1177]

@@Dereliction2 nothing's going to help. This is dad giving advice, it's going to be ignored. 😀

[@davidarmstrong1617]

You earned my upvote with the note you posted at 11:45 ... "Judgment supersedes all the rules in this book. The DM decides which classes, species, feats, skills, and spells are permitted, which rules are used, and how they are interpreted - no exceptions. So if your DM does not allow ardlings, artificers, druids, dwarves, darkvision, death saves, or dual classed paladin/rogues - they don't exist. Deal with it." Man, that's just epic treasure right there!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

When my wife laughed at that line, I knew I had a winner. Thanks for watching!

[@SuperiorFanBase]

Looking forward to when WotC comes out with OneD&D and you get banned off the VTT for not being "inclusive to all styles of play"

[@richardgale4827]

I feel like this becomes easier if the setting is home-brewed. The DM doesn't have to explicitly say 'my world, my rules', but if they're defining the regions, the cultures, and the powers-that-be, from guilds to gods, it's implicit that players can't assume subclasses, prestige classes, divine patronage, and spells are all in play just because they're in a published work.

[@jesselarson1281]

I ran a one-shot of Deathbringer for my 5e group, and one of them expressed surprise that all the rules (except spells, I think) fit on a two-sided piece of paper. "Is this really the whole game?" It is really wild how LITTLE you need to have a fun time running a game. For me, the fun is the world you all build together in your heads as you play: the ideas and characters you create, the choices you make, the stupid jokes, the dice dropped on the floor, and the snacks people bring (or forget to bring!). Comparatively, so little of the fun stuff is in a book somewhere. The fun is your group - it comes out of the people. It doesn't come out of my character build, my feats, my rules hacks, my fancy dice - they can help, but pursuing those things in a vacuum to find "more fun" doesn't work. The fun is in the people around the table.

[@mandisaw]

That's just it - according to surveys, forum posts, etc a lot of folks these days lack some combo of friends and/or imagination. Both are manageable, but it certainly makes it harder. There's also a tendency for people now to obsess over "getting it right", for whatever definition of "right" they happen to have. Being a DM requires a certain amount of "let's try it, and let the dice fall where they may" 😅

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thank you for purchasing Deathbringer. I'm glad you're players enjoy it.

[@jesselarson1281]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Thank you for making it! Got my first TPK in that session as well. (Well, one of them died and the other two were ensorcelled by a flesh-eating mermaid. 😄)

[@ScottBaker_]

Back in the 80s I made a series of "micro" games. I took large board games and distilled them down into 2 pages: page 1 rules, page 2 FAQ explaining the logic (humor) of how and why. All of the games were playable and I think (IMNSHO) captured the essence of those games they replicated. My point being that you can do an awful lot with a little, no matter what the game.

[@priestesslucy]

Really all you need is your imagination and a conflict resolution mechanic. When I was trying to teach my grandma that roleplaying isn't evil I whipped up a resolution mechanic based on a deck of cards. The entire rules is below. When there is conflict, the player and GM both draw one card each round. High card wins, tie means draw again and a Joker is a Miracle. That's it. With those rules we played out a session where her Widowed Itinerant Preacher and said Preacher's wilderness escort got through an assault by a small squad of bandits on the road to the next town.

[@izegrimcreations]

I think the expectations of rules knowledge/adherence is part of it, but only part. When that article came out, I said I think part of it is the elimination of the social contract between players and DMs that have been around for a while. What I mean by social contract is that we all know the DM does a lot more work than any of the players. Often more than the players combined. The social contract held that we all agreed that by playing in a DM's world, it was their game and their system and their houserules; they did most of the work and thus they got the final say. Nowadays there is a frequent expression that players are entitled to have whatever they want in the game, regardless of how the DM feels. If the DM doesn't have dragonborn in their campaign? Then they are a bad DM and should be forced to have them do appease the player. Of course a good DM should communicate all of these ground rules in session 0 so there are no surprises and should do their best to facilitate fun for everyone, but should we be shocked to learn that less people want to DM when they are being forced to include things in their games they don't want? No one forces a player to play in a game. By agreeing to play in a DM's game, we are agreeing to play by their rules. Otherwise we are free to DM a game ourselves or find another group.

[@CausticCatastrophe]

Exactly. Im seeing this even with my old group that already knew this, but somehow "forgot". Im not into being an asshole dm that always says no, but obviously thats not what we are talking about. If we are playing dnd, thats a game with one referee so that ref should understandably be in charge of the rules. Not a committee. There are other frameworks for GM-less play, but this half measure crap just kills me. And yeah, obviously this goes without saying that a GM shouldnt cross the line with content they show etc. OBVIOUSLY.

[@johnmickey5017]

Have you had players reject world fundamentals, house rules, or other restrictions? I keep hearing this complaint but most communities I visit are 100% on board with restrictions.

[@izegrimcreations]

Ah, the problem of making a comment before I was done watching the video, because you address this right at the end lol

[@Lycaon1765]

Yes, this is an especially annoying sentiment I see regurgitated by DnDtubers. They make DM advice videos and it's just "you shouldn't ban classes, you shouldn't ban races, you should make sure the players are always catered to. If you don't do this you're a problem DM" and the like. It sets up new DMs for failure and anxiety, it's just harmful.

[@sumdude4281]

@@johnmickey5017 I have.

[@irishthump73]

Excellent video, one of your best. From what I've seen of 5E myself I think another problem is that the game (and far too many players) seems to see the DM as a facilitator for whatever the players want to do rather than as another player at the table.

[@mandisaw]

Hence the idea of hiring DMs, like you'd get a caterer. Outside of tournaments, or some store-hosted events, I'd never even heard of paid DMs before these sorts of articles started popping up. The DM is your friend, or just somebody you know from "around", but there's still supposed to be a sense that they're doing a solid, taking one for the team, and all that.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks. I agree with you. My BEST are the Reviled Society videos. Supercut drops in two weeks.

[@geoffdewitt6845]

I actually think Ben's half-right. I think the other half, though, is that D&D 5E likes to tell us there are three pillars: combat, exploration, and social interaction. Unfortunately, it only has a procedure for running combat, and leaves everything else up to a binary pass/fail ability check system. That makes it really hard to design fun and engaging scenarios for players based around anything but combat.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

I can see that.

[@pst5345]

this has been the issue with dnd ever since. Combat related stuff is easier to produce than everything else. Shallow fluff and increasing powercreep with each additional sourcebook.

[@WestCooly]

I think Ginny Di had a great idea when she said that perhaps people in the group can take some responsibility, one player is the coordinator, one is a designated note taker and uploads them to a shared doc, and one helps with rules so the DM doesn’t have to go back and forth constantly.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Love Ginny D!

[@richardmoreno5445]

Ginny Di is great! This is a nice suggestion. Although, these can be player tasks, I know I love note taking and DMs have to know the rules. And if a time comes when you don't know the rule or there isn't one, make it up!

[@risusrules]

Right, but Players don't want to do that or they would be DMs or wouldn't be paying $100s to have someone run a game for them. (shrug)

[@andrewlustfield6079]

Ginny D is a very important voice in the community. She has a lot of very good things to say, especially to newbies.

[@Karajorma]

@@risusrules Then make it a requirement at your table. Literally say "I have too much to do running the game to take notes, so one of you has to do it and send me your notes"

[@thomashenderson3326]

I'm one of those DMs that actually enjoys building a world with rich stories to be found. But it works because I get players that are collaborative in creating that story with me instead of expecting it to be spoon-fed to them. And with my group I share the workload. At session 0 we deal with getting a volunteer for: -A designated note-taker - They're responsible for recaps and for keeping track of what's going on, their notes become canon for the stories that happen. -A designated lawyer - if something comes up that I don't recall the specific rule, and it's not something I want to hand-wave mid-session, they look it up while the game continues so it doesn't freeze the game. -A quartermaster - they keep track of party inventory I also just throw out a doodle poll on days I can run for a month and whatever days everyone is available for we schedule that day (We always play at the same time of day because of 6 to 9 hour time zone difference). To anyone that things I give too much power to the note-taker and the lawyer, and worry about them abusing their power... I also let everyone roll real dice if they want, and trust the players to call it as it lands. I know a lot of people have a heart attack thinking about how easy it would be for someone to 'cheat' but my response to that fear simple: I don't play D&D With ***holes.

[@Skare75]

I started DMing in 5e - I didn't know anyone that played, but convinced some friends to join me for their first game. I was self-taught, but the combination of youtube channels and live play streams were fantastically useful. KZbinrs helped me understand some more complex parts, and streams showed me some actual play so I could see how things would flow. My first campaign was 100% homebrewed and ran for around 2 years. One of my players, who learned from playing with me, now has his own group that he DMs for and he is still playing in my current campaign. That said, without the streams or the youtube channels, I think it would have been much more challenging to get started as there is no base mark and such a quantity of content to learn.

[@cameronmaas2644]

My start to dnd is almost this exact same story! I don’t think i would have known that dnd was even fun without the internet. My first campaign was about 1 1/2 years and we made pretty much everything up. I remember I watched Runehammer’s video on encounters to start your campaign, but after that we were free wheelin’. It was amazing! I wouldn’t have it any other way :)

[@Skare75]

@@cameronmaas2644 I'd heard of it before (my parents played many years ago) and I had seen some funny shaped dice in an old dusty box, but that's about it. Seeing it actually played online was the introduction that made it so much easer to dip my feet (and invest in the DMG etc). And it was a great decision ;)

[@Bluecho4]

I think a lot of DMing knowledge isn't found in the books. Or at least people don't tend to learn it from there. It comes from being taught by more experienced DMs, who have had decades to accumulate wisdom. This can happen as an interpersonal process, or (as it often is now) conveyed through blog posts and KZbin videos. I started DMing because I watched a bunch of Matt Colville videos. His Running The Game series dispelled the mystique of DMing, and showed you can just do it with minimal prep work. Just put the players in front of the dungeon and let them have at it.

[@Skare75]

@@Bluecho4 "D&D isn't in your books and maps, it's out there"

[@neilhenderson6602]

I agree, KZbin is a massively helpful resource for new DMs to the point that I couldn’t have handled my return to the game without it.

[@matthewstover6789]

I learned right along with you. The basic rule set gave me a hunger for more. DM’s you rock! Players support your local DM’s.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

YES!

[@meatguyf1375]

Great video, man. I have to say that even as an experienced DM (going on 20+ years now) that 5E's options can be annoying to keep track of at times. I've never just stopped running a game because of them, but it can be a pain when a player comes to you wanting to build a character built on options from six different books and you only own two or three of them. So, I have to borrow their books (or their PDFs) read through them, see what's kosher and what isn't, and then make a ruling on it. It's no wonder 5E has problems bringing in new DMs.

[@mandisaw]

This is usually where I pop in with effusive praise for 4e's Character & Monster Builders, and their database/Compendium. For PCs, I was able to just check-off the books/sources/rules that were in or out for a given campaign, and players could run wild within those constraints. The original, offline version had homebrew support - I gave players a mod file with extra classes, races, & abilities - and allowed players to send me their new sheets as they leveled up. And having a database of every monster & module, with lots of levers to mix/match & adjust abilities meant I could go from idea to encounter in a couple hours. Best D&D-family system I've ever run. People have even more support (KZbin, forums, FLGS, etc) at their disposal now, but I think the culture & expansive VTT toolset around 5e puts a high expectation barrier around DMing, which just was not there in any earlier edition.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Yup.

[@priestesslucy]

Think that's a lot? 3.P.3p (3rd edition plus Pathfinder plus 3rd Party) takes that concept up to 11, I've had plenty of players' characters with content from over 20 sources (books, magazines, PDFs) by level 10. Races and Templates and Traits and Feats and items and spells and maneuvers and Veils/Soulmelds and Bindings and Psionics.... I wouldn't want to run a game any other way tbh lol. It's so much fun seeing what they come up with and how it plays at the table.

[@gcvrsa]

Well just ignore, I guess, the actual publishing history of the RPG community. Even 30-40 years ago, there was a sizeable market of supplementary materials available for D&D that DMs didn't commonly own.

[@waffleworshiper]

If not having all the relevant books is the primary issue you face then I recommend relying on a site like 5eTools or dnd5e.wikidot.com. It’s pretty sad that the free, community made 5eTools is a better reference tool than the paid, official D&D Beyond.

[@TonyCrenshawsLatte]

I once saw a Kickstarter campaign for a brand-new TRPG rule where it proudly touted "over 400 pages!!!!" And I was like, "how the hell is that a selling point??" 😂😂😂

[@aristidesiliopoulos7041]

I think the point you made that resonates is about "experience" those of us that started in the late 70s/early 80s take that for granted. We have been winging it or improvising for years and our players just think we have it all together. Great point. I do also think its the nature of roleplaying there are never enough DMs because most people want to play or be the hero. No one ever wanted to manage the universe and worry about all the curation and pre work a lot of us do. You can always find players. Thats been my experience.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Agreed!

[@RockbainePG]

This is making me want to begin a “DM Bootcamp” where it is meant to help a new DM get comfortable with being a DM

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Do it. Cool idea.

[@MarkMcMillen2112]

Great idea! I'd love to come just to enjoy the experience, and I started DM'ing when I was 12. Never too late to learn new things.

[@HowardAltEisen]

If you end up actually doing that, please pop back here and let us know! I'd be interested in seeing that!

[@jvin248]

Perhaps create a series of videos that Prof DC can host on this channel or cross-post to your channel.

[@KahvinMinisaurus]

In my college DnD club I've recently started holding monthly DM workshops where the goal is to make potential DM:s more comfortable in running the game. We're also planning to start a co-DM system where new DM:s can ask an experienced one to run a few sessions with them and help with the prep to get things going.

[@HouseDM]

Hahahah had me at "deal with it." I truly believe the future of D&D lies with the OSR movement and games like Knave and Deathbringer. Really solid points here, Professor. Thanks for shedding more light on this topic.

[@-o-dq7nd]

I agree 👍💯

[@QuestingBeast]

Thanks for the response video, Professor! I'm very interested to see what Perkins does with the new DMG.

[@TheK5K]

Your original, and the Prof's response video are excellent summaries of the issue. The crux of the matter to me is the Prof's DM statement - players are no longer told, nor would they likely to be willing to accept, that the DM is the final arbiter on the rules. Which ones are in, which are out etc. As a 1E DM who never left AD&D I find the array of character species/classes/subclasses that I hear of in later editions to be daunting. If a DM is also disempowered and can't say, "No," to a players suggested combination (e.g. they don't fit the game world, I don't have those rules, don't know them, don't want to learn them etc) then why would they keep going into the breech? That doesn't sound like fun.

[@CausticCatastrophe]

Interested, but thankfully we dont need wotc! I wonder if "non-folksy" dnd 5e players and GMs will recognize this, and adapt.

[@thomasace2547]

I only started DM’ing in 2019 It was also my first game of DnD, (experience with board games, Wargame TTGs and books), but honestly I loved the challenge My first Campaign started out as a 3 session one shot, but all my players wanted to continue, so became a full on 1.5 year campaign Sadly it ended like most campaigns, my players (especially after lock down) didn’t have the time to continue Went back to the drawing board, took everything I learned from the 5e Books, my Experience of DM’ing Now over a year into a new campaign with mostly new friends who love DnD and some are still new, *but Loving it!* And I love the progression of story adaptive telling

[@matthewconstantine5015]

I got started back in the 80s with Basic Role-Playing (at age 11). At the time, the rules book was maybe 15 or 20 pages, including art, character sheets & a mini-adventure. I ran that game for years, including some pretty big, epic campaigns, and that was without any modules to help me. It was super easy and GM friendly. Frankly, I wish I could get my hands on that little booklet again. I'm not sure what happened to it.

[@robbyslilshadow1948]

re:fellow 50+ year who started with the Moldave 1981 redbox Basic DnD book in 1982 . I don't know how other people's children or 10 & 11 year olds become fascinated with DnD 5e and take to it like a fish to water, but since Questing Beast asked where's that simple guide for 5e? From what i've seen in the Essentials kit for 5e and the Basic Rules freebie (off the website), I'm impressed. Anyways I don't know what the problem is with the kids too chickens--t to just go off on a mad arbitrating stint and DM these days, I really don't.

[@blazeesq2000]

Theory crafting is the player-centric bane. It's always been around. A theory crafter publishes a build and a player wants to play it. 3.5 had some of the best. Who remembers Pun-pun the koblod, or the hulking hurler? It started with the splat books in 2E. Or when AD&D non-weapon proficiencies became skills (optional rules, by the way). Before those things a Fighter who wanted to be Rogueish, could just put points in Dexterity. A rogue who wanted to be on the front line could put points into Strength or Constitution. A player who wanted to craft magic items had to go on quests just to find the ingredients or learn the history of the ancients to do so. A +1 sword or +1 scale mail was a big deal. A ring of protection? When a DM gave that it was a god-send.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Interesting. thank you.

[@seanhansz2864]

I like all of the options offered for players of D&D 5E the same as how I feel about options with banking, insurance and cable tv companies: not at all. As a player and aspiring DM I’m inclined to use only the Players Handbook for players race and class options and to nix feats outright. And dark vision would be useful to see very vaguely in near total darkness: can’t read a scroll, can’t tell if it’s an elf or an orc…

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Good advice.

[@DavidCookeZ80]

As someone who started with B/X before moving to 1e, it's all too easy to forget that I learned all this stuff incrementally. Sure our group had no one to learn from (or any internet), just the text, but there wasn't that much of it. And it was inherently easy because of that. I remain uncertain how much of that was by design, because the system itself hadn't grown yet, or simply because the authors had to produce a manuscript. Our only other frame of reference was the inpenetrable Chivalry & Sorcery. I think that afternoon we went from opening the books for the first time to an initial foray into the Keep on the Borderlands. The lack of rules (and some clearly broken ones) and the exlicit permission to improvise encouraged us to invent stuff as we went, like 4d6 drop lowest (we had no way of knowing other tabels did this) and allowing characters to be brought back with a healing potion provided their (negative) hp wasn't below their con stat. As the rules grew and modules got more story-like we were ready for a more complex system. I think there's a lot to be said for running "old-school" stuff as a first toe-in-the-water as a DM, rather than the more story focused material in either of the starter/essentails sets. I do find the style of the 5e books aren't great to actually present the rules in a consise manner. I can condense all the 5e "runtime" stuff into 20 pages that covers player and DM stuff with worked examples.

[@stevenclark2188]

The strength of post-pathfinder DnD is kinda astonishing. Goodberry is a level one nature spell available to rangers, Create Food and Water was a level 3 cleric spell. So Create Food and Water is in the same tier as Fireball which could be used to soften up entire rooms.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

yep.

[@Deus69xxx1]

i didn't ask how big the room was, i said, i cast fireball.

[@DavidSmith-mt7tb]

3rd edition got so bloated and crazy that 5e looks tame by comparison, but they kept the power level of a lot of that stuff. On one hand I like stuff like cantrips because of how weak low level magic users were in OSR, but on the other hand it makes magic super common since anyone can easily get one. I hate the OSR magic user since you get few spells and are essentially useless at anything else and super squishy, but I feel there's a middle ground there like giving them some martial capability (ya know like Gandalf, the inspiration for the class, who wielded a sword plenty fine) and more starting spell slots, rather than making him Dr Strange.

[@priestesslucy]

@@DavidSmith-mt7tb personally I prefer Dr Strange for a Wizard's eventual progression... But that requires that Martials progress into Thor or The Hulk and that seems to violate the sensibilities of a sizeable portion of the playerbase

[@DavidSmith-mt7tb]

@@priestesslucy Really depends on what kind of game you are playing. I mean that's fine, but it does get difficult for GMs to manage. Not sure if you've ever played old school DnD, but it has a very different feel. You don't feel like a superhero in it nearly as much. It's more of a survival horror than an action adventure (though it does have those elements). And this stuff is a big contributor to that change.

[@demonofthemojave7689]

I just found your channel with this video. And thank you, you literally explain why I refuse to play anything over v3.5. So many people don't understand that and they just want to play 5e so they are pretty much invincible upon creation. If you're playing in my campaign and you want immortality, you're earning it

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

I'm glad we found each other. Check out my Reviled Society series. It's the best stuff on the channel. Also, "My Sad Year Without D&D." Mark Rein-Hagen (Vampire: The Masquerade) said it was his favorite of my videos. Welcome!

[@daddycupcake1154]

I've been DMing for a relatively short amount of time and I come to your channel for lots of ideas, tips and tricks. I've gotta say that you are an inspiration to new and experienced DMs and I love your view on D&D as a whole. Since starting my own campaign and finding your channel, my groups have enjoyed our games more and more and it's largely thanks to you.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Awesome, thank you! I really appreciate the compliment, but I'm happier that I've made life more fun for you and your group.

[@andrewrockwell1282]

I totally agree. The benefit I see to the rules heavy systems is character customization. The benefit to rules light is DM empowerment and ease of play. I have had players however that don't like rules light because they need a document to tell them they CAN do something. If there is no rule for grappling they will assume they cannot ever do it. If there is no rule for jumping on the table to attack the orc, they will not do it.

[@JustIT69]

I've heard many people argue what you are saying about 5e being too much player oriented, and I totally agree. I was so shocked when I first read the rules for 5e, and how much different it was from when I stopped playing D&D because of well, life. (I played AD&D and AD&D 2nd edition through the 80s and 90s). Whilst I understand it, it seemed to complicated. Yeah the combat rules were a little easier, and saving throws were less complicated; but the whole concept of rolling a character with backgrounds, professions, feats, and every class having a spellcaster, made the game harder to understand, and really hard for the DM. Having to know what every class, subclass, and race could do and how to adapt all that is crazy. I do allow all spells, all races, classes and subclasses at my table, but I tell the players they need to understand exactly what their characters can do, and what their spells do. And I just get on with running the game I have prepared. I think the older editions were far less complicated over all.

[@keithkannenberg7414]

Newer editions try to have rules for everything, including details for every kind of archetype that a player could imagine. That's necessarily going to be complex. Overly so, IMO.

[@priestesslucy]

I do find it fascinating how many people skipped 3rd edition and jumped straight from Basic/A DnD to 5th

[@JustIT69]

@@priestesslucy for many of us, life happened. Marriage, moving, work got in the way. Then by the time 5 came around, we had more time to get back into the hobby.

[@NoBuddy89]

What? You don't have to know what every class, subclass or race does. The one playing them does. Might I suggest some digital tools so that you dont need to memorize everything? At the click of a button I can bring up any spell, feat or racial feature my players have and double check, often taking the time to do so while they RP. And playing a class that is not a spellcaster is decidedly just boring. Fighter still suffers from this, hence everyone playing battlemaster. I gave all classes "spells" in terms of ablities, but they are really easy to keep track of. I don't think anyone needs to think hard about what, charge, cleave, slam and disarm does. And I've tried to explain 2nd edition or 3.5 edition to players, just nope right out of there.

[@JustIT69]

@@NoBuddy89 I'm not saying 5e is bad, I enjoy running it. What I said was "I believe" the material put out by WotC in recent books is sub par. You and many others might think differently to me, and that is perfectly fine. I personally think that there is better content for people who play D&D 5e from 3rd party producers, especially when it comes to people who are DMs. I'd also like to thank you for explaining to me about digital content for D&D. However, I'd like to add, I've been using digital content for 6 years, I know what it does and how to use it, but thanks again for enlightening me.

[@mikhailchuev8715]

I agree on most points. As a DM with some experience, I made many such adjustments day 1 of my transition to 5E. It took my players nearly 2 years to reach level 8 and it made the game better, as it allowed both me and my players to adjust to the rules. I also banned a good chunk of races and banned multi-classing altogether. I also think that some weaving-in of a story helps a game a long-way, as it allows a good transition between combat-exploration-social interactions. So only a dungeon with little story may not work for many players.

[@himesjb]

Point after point, you nailed it. Nice job quoting Ben of Questing Beast, but following up with very clear statements about the challenges posed by the player-centric system of 5e. One look at all those gargantuan player-accessory tomes, and I was always too daunted to be a DM for that.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thank you.

[@danielf4240]

As a DM of 30 years, I'd say that the rise of virtual games has perhaps contributed to new or perspective DMs giving up. For an in person game I'd usually spend an hour or two prepping little by little in the course of a week, but if needed, I could prep in as little as 30 minutes for a session, as long as I knew the campaign, characters, plot points etc. For a virtual game, it's important that things that may just be notes, which you'll improv and extemporize on during the session, need to be fully fleshed out with maps, stat blocks, pawns etc to take full advantage of the tools. This level of prep is arduous, with creating maps alone being 45-60 minutes each, often for maps that don't even end up getting used in a given session. I know there are workarounds, like buying pre-made maps and such, but that's just not me. I found for a Warhammer RPG that I was running, my prep time was ballooning close to 7-8 hours a week. Now that that campaign is done I can definitively say I will NEVER DM virtually again, unless it's a simple theater of the mind game on discord or the like. Now, I understand the upside of virtual games for bringing people into the hobby and for connecting players who wouldn't otherwise have groups, but the prospect of DMing those games is daunting to me, and I'd imagine, ten fold for players who are flirting with the idea of DMing. I can imagine a lot of those folks probably mess with the tools for a few hours and decide they're better off playing. Since so much of the hobby is now virtual this may play a fairly large role in the shortage of DMs. I wouldn't be surprised if the 'shortage' skewed more heavily toward virtual groups than live ones.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Interesting take. Dave Thaumavore has a video on why the D&D VTT will fail, and this is one of his top reasons.

[@grymhild]

I started DMing with that same book in 1981 the summer between 5th and 6th grade! We moved on to AD&D around Christmas!! Btw, the random treasure in Lost City is outrageously silly.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Yep!

[@ttprophet]

GREAT VID PROF! love dissecting this stuff with other's perspectives.

[@rubensduarte4233]

I think this was the most important video I've watched for decades. Thank you Professor!!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

That means a lot to me. Thank you.

[@tristanevans5024]

This is what I love about Dungeon World. So simple so easy and not a million rules to adjudicate. OSR is the same, such as the Black Hack.

[@PatroniMeiSancti]

I appreciate your work. Thank you, Professor. I liked the slower development because it caused the player to learn what each spell did, which helped them to use their wizard more effectively. You didn't have to stop and keep looking up every little detail.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Yup.

[@lorcandruid]

Great video & cogent analysis Prof! I totally agree with what you've said and what Ben "Questing Beast" also opines. I cut my teeth back in the early 80s with AD&D 1st edition and I learned how to be a DM from running low-level modules like "The Lost City" and "Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh". They were designed with novice players and DMs in mind and everyone at the table was learning the game together and still having plenty of fun. The modules were short and un-fussy and no-one had to concern themselves with elaborate backstories or overarching plot devices. If I was a novice DM now looking to run a published 5e campaign with a 200-page book to manage it'd intimidate the hell out of me. WotC could surely publish more Starter Set campaigns for newbies to learn as there's plenty of more advanced material for them to grow into later.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

If you like the Lost City, check out my Reviled Society videos. I think you'll dig them.

[@brentross9680]

I've been playing (and DMing) for 40 years now. One thing that I found helpful for players to become more comfortable in becoming a DM is to be mentored by the main DM. Everyone in the group takes part in discussions around rule changes and their impacts, thus increasing overall knowledge and understanding. They also start to have a stake in the game world as they get to create part of it. That has the added bonus of not requiring you to create an entire world, just an adventure as part of a larger campaign.

[@opaqued2039]

This is solid advice.

[@priestesslucy]

I typically don't run a game with someone if they aren't willing to work with me on creating their hometown and homeland

[@DavidSmith-mt7tb]

I had a GM for a Legend of the Five Rings game where we would ask to do a rule a certain way or he would ask how we wanted to do it, but he always told us "remember, the rules applies to your enemies the same way." Sometimes that would make players say "nevermind then." It was a good check for if a rule is good and let everyone be involved in the decision so people didn't hate the GM

[@JonathanQiao]

I will specifically point to the location based books without overarching storylines. For 3 years I would spend hours creating scenerios and stories but I made rules based on the Basic D&D rules we used way back when I was young. I used donjon to generate a map and moved monsters, treasure, locked doors and traps around to make sense in a logical pattern that favors inhabitants over intruders. I also use a monster reaction table which in combination with the decisions the players make as we go that has produced a far more complex story and I have far more plot points for multiple sessions for less time it took me to prepare for one session. Bring a reactive DM rather than a proactive DM is so much easier and so much more fun.

[@MedievalMary]

As a DM who learned to DM in 5e because nobody else wanted to learn, I completely agree with everything in this video. After 5 years I am pretty confident about my skills now, but at first the amount of rule learning I had to do was terrifying and paralyzing. Now if I can't remember a specific rule I will make a ruling based on what makes sense in the moment. It's extremely undermining when a player pauses the game to contradict me and look up the rule. My goal is to keep the game moving. I feel like the players feel their job is to correct me to further impower their character, and I feel this is encouraged by official material.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Much respect for your hard work. Rock on, Mary!

[@balazszsigmond826]

One thing I learned about the rules lawyers... at first you ask them to stop doing that because it hurts the flow of the game or brings you out of the zone and it hurts the session. If they do it again, tell them to stop coming for the sessions. Roleplaying is a collaborative game. Yes, we can have disagreements on how a thing should work. Heck, I am a difficult player when I play. But challenging the DM instead of working together with it is bad form. On the other hand, if you are a player and you constantly disagree with the DM even after you tried to work together with it honestly... then you should stop going to sessions, if talks do not lead anywhere. Both the players and the DMs time is precious. Don't waste it. One of the reason I stopped playing altogether since years now, is that people, who shouldn't be roleplaying, are playing, and those are the players I encounter. (Hungary, small country, only a few players and even the good material are infected by a hard-to-die-out and toxic gaming culture that permeates the country.)

[@Ichthyodactyl]

I got some really good advice many years ago about how to handle this and, while I don't have the same degree of experience as a lot of others in 5e, I still think it's a really good rule to try to stick to. Firstly, Rule 0 exists for a reason, it is the DM's job to make those kinds of judgements to keep things going. Ideally, the DM is going to be familiar with the rules and stuff doesn't need to be looked up all the time but even if they are, the DM is allowed to break the rules to better facilitate the game in whatever fashion they deem beneficial or necessary. Having gotten that out of the way, the rule is this; DM fiat matters most in the moment and it's their job to make those judgements, if players are still feeling salty afterwards, they should take notes and discuss with the DM AFTER THE GAME so that the issue can hopefully be resolved, understanding can be had and try to offer some kind of recompense if the DM decides that's appropriate. These kinds of arguments should never happen during game time. I feel if more DMs set expectations like that during a first session, before everyone is so heavily invested, a lot of these issues could be avoided.

[@TonklinFallen]

This has made me realise something that is happening right now with my old DnD group. My old players are now spreading their wings and becoming DMs of their own new group of players (they grow up so fast). And they do still come to me with questions and asking for advice, which I graciously help with. But increasingly I have noticed that they are asking me for advice, and all I am doing is scanning sections of 3.5 or earlier DM guide books and sending those pdfs to them. So they are asking me for advice which earlier edition books would have answered for them, but 5e is not helping at all.

[@RIVERSRPGChannel]

Good points on the older versions and fewer rules and easier to run.

[@TheRauzKindred]

I think this is part of why, even as an experienced game master, I have started swapping to other rule systems, I love playing 5e but boy howdy I do not enjoy running it, even though I want to. I ended up swapping to Call of Cthulhu and much to my own surprise enjoying it as much as I did older editions of D&D. I feel more in control as the game master with CoC, but I can still be pleasantly surprised by my players when they come up with fun creative and often hilarious ways to solve scenarios I provide them to puzzle through. On top of that the other issue I've noticed, too many games end up being about a "fate of the world" situation because rules as written you power level to near or outright demigod level threats as players in 5e and while I can sometimes enjoy those, it stops being special when it's every other game or more frequent. I think I might look into more OSR stuff to maybe get back that good grounded dungeon crawl vibe I have been missing from when I played back in highschool.

[@hokirob]

Fewer rules are easier. Absolutely agree. If just starting, acid encourage a new GM to just use the classes and species in the Players Handbook to start. Skip the dozens of add on options. And then push your players a bit to know some of their own stuff-rogues, learn how sneak attack works, etc. start with easy. Once you get crushing that, look at taking the next steps. Or, do a combination of one shots and don’t spend a lot of time on encumbrance and some of those rules, just have an adventure and enjoy it.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Good advice.

[@ChristianIce]

9:10 and this is the peak of "rage" you'll ever see from the professor.

[@johnstuartkeller5244]

WOOO! Perfect timing for lunch break! Thanks, Professor!

[@AWarrenJohnson]

Couldn't agree more with your points. Nothing more frustrating then being constantly corrected on combat, rules and spells when presenting a thought out adventure

[@99zxk]

I've been trying to figure out what style of play 5e is, and often thought of it as super heroes. After a friend showed me a clip of that animated show based on critical role, I realized that it's 100% anime.

[@owenbloomfield1177]

Matt Colville has a video exactly about this.

[@theravenousrabbit3671]

5e is definitely heroic fantasy. Don't treat it in any other way; The players have so many options and powers at their disposal that after lvl 5, they tend to be able to solve most "mechanical" problems within however long it takes for them to cast a spell. Approach your mechanical problems as "moments of heroism" rather than "interesting problems to solve with intrigue and tools" and things will be a lot better for you. I never freakin' add in "solutions" to my prep. There is a poisoned well. The players have to deal with that. I don't care how, but if they come up with a reasonable solution, then they're able to do it. Saves you so much of a hassle in the long run.

[@elgatochurro]

Not anime, just hero fantasy with none of the danger

[@raymondlugo9960]

Funny you say that because Legend of Lodoss War is based on a BECMI campaign.

[@mandisaw]

@@raymondlugo9960 Well anime comes in a lot of flavors LOL Even just looking at the full run of Dragonball (manga/anime), they went from adolescent hijinks & armies of mooks, to alien invasions & godlike world-enders. I agree that the 5e rules lean hard into power fantasy, but perhaps what's changed is just how much power players need to feel powerful.

[@shayulghul]

As a forever DM going on ~35 years of DMing, this video sums up most of my frustrations with 5e. Especially the summation at 7:24

[@sutyi06]

Great video! I'm of the younger part of the audience and I am relatively new to the hobby (started as a player about six-seven years ago). I have played as a player in ADnD 2nd edition, DMed a few campaigns in ADnD, 5e as well as Mythras (and a few adventures in my own simple system made for children). I agree with the sentiment that "less is more" and find it pretty bad that almost every 5th edition expansion caters to players instead of the DM. (I stopped caring at Van Richten's.) I would however like to add, that with many new DMs I feel that the problem isn't the overwhelming options and rules available for players. The root of the problem is that nobody that I know (outside of me) has actually read the Dungeon Master's Guide, which I have so far found extremely useful. Moreover most DMs I know, start out with their own homebrew campaigns in their own homebrew worlds, instead of trying their hands at an official module first (like I did with Curse of Strahd, The Keep on the Borderlands and briefly Bleak House). This way most of them aren't really aware of what goes into planning a game before building their own preferences, ultimately resulting in an inferior palyers' experience and the new GM giving up before long.

[@mandisaw]

It would be interesting to see whether the proportion of homebrew-based campaigns has shifted over the editions. I suspect there's something of a natural ebb & flow, but certainly the relative abundance (or lack) of support modules in a given edition, across primary & 3rd-party pubs, might play a part.

[@jasonstephens6109]

You're so right. As a first-time DM, I started out trying to run a module. I wanted to run a homebrew by the time we reached the end (of Lost Mines of Phandelver), so I started sprinkling in elements of my story that would follow. Adding NPCs, history notes, etc. About halfway through the module, I had transitioned the game over to my own campaign, only filling out the main plot points of LMoP to wrap up the story as we go. Personally, I have found that making up my own story is actually way easier than trying to study and remember a module. My homebrew rules are a hit and easy to remember. I've been DMing for 2 years now and we are still going strong in the homebrew campaign. Easy-peasy

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

HOMEBREW FOREVER!

[@VengefulVoid22]

Thank you for your thoughts! As odd as it may sound, it convinced me to stick with 5e. I have DM’d for as long as I’ve been into it since 2016. And as cool as the new PC options have been in recent book releases, they’re overwhelming as a DM. Being reminded I can say no, is awesome. 😂

[@CausticCatastrophe]

Rule 0 is always present.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Love 5e players. Everyone is welcome. Rock on!

[@VengefulVoid22]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Is there a good resource book or video to help bridge the gap between 5e and OSR?

[@CausticCatastrophe]

@@VengefulVoid22 There are a few rulesets that attempt this with varying results. None of that worked for my group, but i can offer some suggestions. (the colloquialism is O5R btw) Into the Unknown - Best imo. Five Torches Deep - Still pretty good presentation.

[@VengefulVoid22]

@@CausticCatastrophe I’ll check them out! Thank you so much.

[@meraduddcethin2812]

Yet another good video. Been playing around as long as you have and almost all of that time has been behind the screen. I agree with your general comment regarding level progression (as in, about 2-3 times faster than in 1E/2E/3E) and the shift from content geared for DMs to content for players (that the DMs have to also buy/consume/understand) and the general power creep and abandonment of resource management in the last two editions. Those two things really drive the difference between 'old-skool' and 'new-school' TTRPG. Regarding story vs. location-based adventures.....the buy-in (or gaming conceit) is fundamentally different. The 'conceit' in location adventures is that the party is going to , the DM has said location and shenanigans will occur. The 'conceit' in a story-based adventure is that the DM has written a plot, created 'reasons' for the PCs caring and (by and large) the party will be along for the ride. This works when you write the novel first and then shoe-horn the PCs into it (a la Dragonlance), but considering how important Player Agency is today, there's an underlying tension here. Even with a wildly successful out-of-world prep (aka session zero), it's all but setting up the DM for failure when there are 4+ contributing authors but the DM is supposed to be orchestrating the story. A potential solution is that the players write the bones of their own story arc and submit that to the DM as part of session zero. Once the DM has them all, they can work the stories into location-based adventures and 'in-town' stuff.

[@CausticCatastrophe]

Wholeheartedly agree. Im not even an inexperienced DM, i just hate having to do so much, and making conflict and rewarding players is easier if they arnt given abilities that solve most problems handed to them at first level. My group doesnt watch streamers, but they also really chafe at trying OSR because it has "not many options". Ive tried reasoning with them, but its just back to board games now. My group has been playing since the release of 3.5 so its not like everyone isnt aware of the GM veto power, but my problem is that lately they just dont seem to care. I dont know if that can be attributed to 5e or not, but it is rather frustrating because it feels like i dont have control of my own game. GM veto REALLY needs to be in the players handbook. The perception is that the DM rules are in the DM book, and the Player rules are in the Player book. All rules are the GM rules.

[@kaif-tube1692]

I remember the best advice I ever heard about how to start out DMing is to not worry about all of the rules and just get comfortable with the basics. Just know how to do skill checks and have a little imagination and that's all you really need to run a game. Everything else is for people who want to spend the time to learn it. I personally did and love the crunchiness of Pathfinder 1e, but if my group didn't have patience for me still learning intricacies of the system, and weird interactions of different options I probably wouldn't want to do it as much. But yeah, putting rule 0 in the player's handbook is a great call.

[@JWPanimation]

The game itself has moved so far from its origins as a simple tabletop miniature medieval strategy game akin to Warhammer towards an RPG which relies heavilly on story telling and world building accompanied by a lengthy set of convoluted rules, often based on exceptions. WOC wants players to buy their content, but needs to come to grips that the GM is delivering that content. The GM's work is in the preparation, coming up with adventure hooks, cartography, creating interesting NPC'S, designing encounters, etc. And then running all that against 5E's rules, while trying to entertain the players. It's an arduous task and not easy for new DM's. We need a new DM's guide which is actually a guide. With online tutorials on how to actually prepare and run a campaign. A searchable online reference for spells, monster stat blocks, conditions and class features. I would also argue for a rewrite of the magic system and simplification of subclasses.

[@BrenGamerYT]

Several weeks ago I finished a campaign for the first time, satisfying conclusion for everyone and all. It lasted about a year and my players told me I did a great job. But I definitely ran two or three not great campaigns (and a smattering of one shots of varying quality) first, it’s rough to get into.

[@skepticalextraterrestrial2971]

I remember running my first "Dungeons and Dragons" game with no rules whatsoever at the age of eight. I had never even seen the rule book. I had played the board game "Dungeon!" and just made everything up from there. It was definitely a dungeon crawl and I'm sure it was absolutely terrible. But we had fun.

[@jasonp9508]

Holy crap you just reminded me of a moment I had forgotten! In 4th grade mid-80’s my friend was trying to teach me “Dungeons & Dragons” like his older brothers played. We had no dice (and no idea) so he closed his eyes and spun around in a circle with his arm out and said “If I stop and I’m pointing at a window or door then you hit the dragon.” Damn. That’s where it all started. Hilarious.

[@skepticalextraterrestrial2971]

@@jasonp9508 Haha, cool!

[@Bryon1187]

Amen on a longer time to level up. Even as a player in 5e I felt like I wasn't even proficient in my character's abilities and spells, before bamm level up - new stuff.

[@Auticusx]

Great content: * On Experience Leveling too fast - absolutely a problem IMO. The game can't breathe because everyone is sprinting to the end. The best stories for me are told over time and players learn their characters and develop those backstories in a more organic way when it takes longer to level. I gave up on xp in D&D years ago and have been doing milestones since 4th edition. In Dungeon Crawl Classics, I am fine with the progression level of the xp system because its slower. * On fewer rules = faster play - In theory yes. In practice no - because players are much more argumentative these days and players are also more cynical these days. One of the biggest gripes back in the 90s and AD&D 2nd ed was that "the DM could just screw you over" and when 3rd ed codified pretty much everything - it put the power in the player's hands and the players... well... Professor DM... they like that. Fewer rules means less rules mastery. Less rules mastery leaves a lot of modern players grumpy because Rules Mastery is a thing that players enjoy - not just in RPGs, but tabletop wargames as well. How does that slow things down? Well... argumentative players slow the game down by arguing and people are a lot more sensitive these days and don't want to come off as the bad guy, be canceled for being "a dick DM", or stir drama - and certain types of people know that and take advantage. Thats why rules for everything are positive, people don't get butt-hurt over a DM call and in these days - thats a huge thing. That being said - I'm an OSR DM... I love AD&D 2nd edition - its my home. I have largely given up on modern D&D and currently run West Marches with Dungeon Crawl Classics. I will say - I can get a 5e group together in a day. It takes me a lot longer to get a DCC game together though... OSR is my love... but is also harder to find players for. For me OSR is the opposite problem: not enough players and too many DMs lol.

[@drfiveminusminus]

Interesting point about the rules. I'm not really sure what side I come down on personally, but I think there's a lot of nuance to it. Obviously sometimes the rules can get in the way of the experience, but other times completely ignoring all rules and doing it inconsistently can lead to cries of favoritism or adversarial play (either real or imagined).

[@user-dd9dh9kw5c]

I just use milestones because 5e is plot driven and not character driven.

[@Auticusx]

@@drfiveminusminus its been a hot minute but yeah I recall a fair bit of kick back on inconsistent ruling and "the DM is just being a dick" back in the AD&D days. When 3rd came out that was one of the big things celebrated was that EVERYTHING was codified so DMs could no longer "just be a dick when they wanted to". (paraphrased)

[@Auticusx]

@@user-dd9dh9kw5c agreed. 5e COULD be character driven, but i definitely see the plot railroad heavily traveled these days.

[@TheShadowwalker007]

Great addition to the conversation. Thank you. I feel there is even notes to say, I am a 5e DM but I try and keep my game closer to 2e and in those efforts I relate to the OSR and other OG RPGs to help keep things simple. I feel there is even more to say on this topic

[@randallhurlburt6389]

I've been running my current D&D 5e game for 30 sessions over about 14 months, and the PCs just recently reached 4th level. I sometimes worry that it's too slow, but every time I ask for feedback, the players say they are loving the campaign.

[@bitteralmonds5717]

I also have a similar slowness in my game, partly because I'm running horror (CoS) so I need them to not be running around overpowered, but yes I think exp as it is is only relevant if you run dungeon crawls in 5e rather than story-driven. I rarely if ever get those 6-8 encounters daily as intended, the way that we play.

[@Bargletheinfamous]

Great video! I think you hit the nail on the head. A lot of reasons I left 5e over a year ago and only play OSR but the heavy player focus 5e style is definitely an issue imo.

[@ElfLady]

Yes! I see the 81,463 races snd classes as a menu for DMs, do they can create a world with the elements they want, not the all-too-common "kitchen sink" approach. Flavor and fun often come from what isn't there.

[@elgatochurro]

You say that but players these days are so entitled they have argued with me over options I've banned, specifically said I've banned and ones banned they didn't even want to play...

[@ElfLady]

@@elgatochurro sounds like you need to either convince them or find new players. This is your game. If they want something different, they can run their own.

[@elgatochurro]

@@ElfLady it's bad yeah

[@tuomasronnberg5244]

@@elgatochurro Remember that DMs are in short supply so you can afford to pick your players.

[@elgatochurro]

@@tuomasronnberg5244 yeah but where am I gonna for players that are what I want?

[@havock89]

I only play BECMI D&D. I've got a house rule I have been using for over 30 years... Magic Users get a modifier on Spell Memorisation based on their Intelligence, and Clerics on their Wisdom. Also, in any kind of stressful environment, casting a spell required an Intelligence/wisdom check, to successfully cast a spell. It never seemed fair or balanced to me for fighters to get a modifier based on their primary attribute which made them more or less effective, but magic users didnt... This simple rule accounted for those who were naturally talented would have an advantage and also added valuable tension to dice roles during combat.

[@matthewmccloud4777]

Wow that AD&D DM guide is WRECKED! Obviously well, WELL used. Great stuff as always!

[@trikepilot101]

I look at it and see the "new" cover. ; )

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Yep. Thanks for watching closely.

[@lancecampbell8332]

I agree with you 100%. I love your comment to put in the player handbook the fact that the DM can change the rules.

[@opaqued2039]

Questing Beast is awesome, and you made an excellent follow up to his video. For D&D content, I have you guys in my top five, maybe top 3. I think both of you made excellent, accurate assessments--from a game design perspective. As I read through the comments, I see others coming from a game design perspective, and I thought I'd add a twist. WotC isn't thinking of D&D from a game design perspective. Once I look past my irrational hatred of Chris Perkins for D&D 4e, I acknowledge that he is capable of writing an improved DMG (in the sense that it's easier to use for new DMs), and that is a good thing. Having said that, WotC (and really D&D) is run by Microsoft now. D&D is a brand, a lifestyle brand. Everything I've heard from the Microsoft execs and MBAs running things focuses on monetizing players, not helping DMs. The focus is the brand--not the game. WotC believes they can do just fine with digital D&D, merchandising, continually disguising modern coastal sensibilities with the skins of previous IPs, etc. They're also betting on the D&D community--which I suspect is mostly people that do not play and/or do not care about the rules. Lots of people watch football and buy all of the things associated with football without ever playing football. Maybe some of them casually toss a ball around or played when they were kids. I often see others defending or promoting poor choices or products by WotC, often passing moral judgments on those criticizing the decision or product, and that tells me that they've already identified with the brand, regardless of the rules. WotC could still turn out a better system for DMs, but it's definitely not their focus or priority. Side note: I also learned to play D&D in the fourth grade. I learned through the B and E sets of BECMI, and my friend down the street had Moldvay/Cook B/X. So we combined them, and I became a forever DM--even with the older kids. Of course, I was 9 years old...not that it's a contest...just thought I'd mention it.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Flattered to be in your top 3. KZbin has a lot of excellent DMs. I subscribe to them and know them personally.

[@dawolvx3098]

Everybody is special, everybody gets a trophy.

[@gatb4387]

I'm a forever player who lives in Taiwan (Asian boardgaming mecca, btw). I'm going to try to GM in the next few weeks, though I'm not confident. Please root for me!!

[@kalaweira]

How did it work out? (On my first wobbly DM steps myself here!)

[@RodBatten]

You have pretty much perfectly described the essence of "why OSR?" in a very easily digested set of comparisons. Excellent stuff!

[@derrabbit7289]

To get my dnd game going, I had to just step up myself and say, “If no one else is going to commit, then I’ll do it!” 12 sessions later I have found my niche as a DM for the Apocolytia Campaign and I’m having a blast acting out characters, plotting the next session, and throwing in dashes of my childhood cartoons. I don’t own a DM’s guide for the current edition and no matter what WOTC does, I won’t buy one. My dice are my DM’s guide, I roll, stuff happens, the players make decisions, I apply consequences. Behind my screen I have notes, reference books, and dice, and we go from there.

[@wizardsofthetower3802]

As a DM and player since 1979, I totally get what you are saying. In my younger days, I could tell you a rule on X page of X book. Today, it's not as easy. And playing PF1, there are a ton of rules. And as someone who has a world as detailed or more than most of the ones you buy, I do write my own campaigns and adventures, and I do set the rules. Don't like them, don't play. If you are going to play, accept the rules I set. The DM always has the right to change a rule if it does not work for them, so long as it does not kill the game or the characters outright. DM's also get burn out, and like to play, that is not always available, unless you want to pay to play on line. It is not easy being a DM, but when you do a good job, and your players are happy, It is rewarding Good Job Professor DM.

[@neilhenderson6602]

Another thought provoking video from my favourite academic. I’m of similar vintage to my hero and just like the Prof started in the late 70’s and early 80’s, designing dungeons and settings like crazy. And now I’ve returned, am home brewing once more and guess what, 5e is a nightmare for exactly the reasons the Prof describes. It’s a massive achievement to actually challenge players. I’d be off to OSR like a shot, but guess what - my players like 5e and there’s no guarantee that they fancy investing in different rule books and getting their heads around a new system. As a DM and a creator I’m stuck in the 5e dystopia with new rule books making my players ever more powerful. And sure, I can nerf them with houserules but that feels like cheating and worse, it sets me against my players - who are my friends and co-creators.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks for responding. Home brew forever!

[@HostileMakeover]

I think it was Zee Bashew that mentioned a perfect 'fix' for goodberry, so that it doesn't destroy resource management. Make a ruling that it consumes its components. It's so simple I wish I had come up with it, and I wonder how many hundreds of DMs might have had the same idea previously.

[@Michigan1B22]

Great video! I hope Wotc and Hasbro can understand these core principles about the game being simpler and empowering DM's instead of trying to please players. However I think official D&D might have gotten to big for it's britches and we're now seeing corporate greed do what corporate greed does and that's destroy a beloved brands in the name of profit. I really want to know what Chris Perkins and the other members of Wotc think about the direction D&D is headed. Perkins has been around since the fall of TSR he's gotta have some interesting thoughts on this.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks for watching!

[@krim7]

Like the people working on the Magic side, you will likely only hear them sigh heavily, then tow the company line. 😢

[@CausticCatastrophe]

good thing we dont need wotc then!

[@Michigan1B22]

@@krim7 I think so. Hard to walk away from your dream job even when it's completely changed.

[@Michigan1B22]

@@CausticCatastrophe agreed! The OSR is alive and well

[@slpcorner]

"... that's good - but it's in the wrong place. It's here - it should be here." I cheered !

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Lol. Funny story--so did my wife when she watched the rough cut. That's how I knew I had a winner.

[@Howler452]

I don't have much of an issue remembering the 5e rules. I may be biased because 5e is how I started with D&D. However I do agree, I have always felt that there is no where near enough rules or tips to help the DM, especially with the ever growing power creep. And sometimes I struggle to remember every single thing I need to in order to keep the game flowing. Which makes me even more concerned with OneD&D. So far a lot of the new rules that are not strictly tied to the players feel like they're bloating things more than they should be. And a lot of the rules that are tied to players, like the Influence action, have all these other things stacked on. My brain can only take on so much new information before I say 'Screw it, we're doing it the old way because it's easier and it's what I know'.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Power creep may be a topic of a future video, for sure. Thanks for sharing!

[@DawnOfElaris]

I started DMing in 5e and have done it for about 4 or 5 years now, but just started a game in AD&D 2e as a hexcrawl type game focused on exploration with a lot of players from my 5e groups. A lot of them ended up struggling with things that I never even realized how easy 5e made it-particularly food, water, carry weight, and unrounded teams. One group almost entirely wiped in the desert because they left town with 6 waterskins to a group of 3. While the racial options honestly seemed far more impactful in 2e, making them feel like truly separate species rather than just different flavors of humans, none of them felt like they invalidate any large aspects of the game. I've only run it for ~2 weeks but so far I've vastly preferred how 2e is structured, even if its hard to find information for it since all my results are either for 5e or Pathfinder 2e instead. I've just taken to making my own rulings where necessary and it still seems to run pretty smoothly over all. I did do a bit of homebrew to split up races a little, but it was through subraces (More or less what was done in the Complete Book of X series for elves, dwarfs, and halfling and gnomes but more specific to the setting I'm making), but otherwise I like the small selection of base races-something that always seemed like a pain to get some 5e players to accept. I added half-orcs to it from the Complete Book of Humanoids but didn't use any other ones from that, otherwise just using PHB races for a total of 7 races and 10 classes. I did end up killing a player in the first dungeon I ran on there, the party's cleric falling prey to a Zombie Lord because he was wearing a holy symbol of a specific particularly anti-undead deity, and the fight came down to only the mage still standing and landing his first weapon attack throughout the entire dungeon that just barely managed to kill the boss. Never had a party cheer so loud before

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

6 waterskins. Lol!!!

[@wingedhussar2909]

I think it all comes down to time to and expectations, less about rules or complications. People have less time but still have high expectations. Also, more people are playing with strangers who have no connections or obligations to group or game. It's extremely frustrating to take all this time to build encounters, loot, npcs, plot, landscapes, and other things just to have half the players show up. I primarily play online now and attendence is a huge problem.

[@norrain13]

My daughter is 11 and they are playing D&D after school in a club by one of the teachers. The teacher is smart and plays it fast and loose with the rules keeps the game moving, really focuses on making the experience fun, uses the rule of cool, tries not to say no, and they are loving it. So thats one way they are learning it!

[@anthonygent6378]

Another great video Prof DM I also agree with you and Ben about we need to put the Master back in Dungeon Master

[@bamboozledgreatcrowd8982]

5e started out that way making magic items very rare if used at all. 5e was supposed to be low magic in the early days.

[@rattlyburitto4868]

I prefer Games Operations Director. :)

[@becmiberserker]

I was just discussing something like this on another video’s comments section. Basically, it was about the reduced amount of ambiguity in later rules sets and why this is a bad thing. Ambiguity is something that newer editions seem intent on replacing with more complex systems and rules rather than leaving it up to DMs and enable their DM development. Ambiguity is at the heart of roleplaying. It’s what develops imaginations and relationships through fair play and agreement. It’s what developed the plethora of creatives that cite D&D as their inspiration. I’m not suggesting ambiguity is entirely absent from 5e, but it’s an unappreciated element of early D&D that is, thankfully, found in many alternatives. It should be a more treasured aspect of modern D&D.

[@RIVERSRPGChannel]

I agree with streamers being a too high expectations. I watched Ben’s video too it very good. I think it is a little daunting to newer players to become a DM. We play in a large group ranging from 17 to 59 and the older players have played for 30+ years. We have 7 GMs in the group the youngest is 26. I’m thankful I don’t have the problem of finding a DM.

[@lordofthestinkingrivermast8914]

I really appreciate your videos Prof! I started my fantasy roleplaying wanting to play D&D, back in the 80's but actually starting with Tunnels & Trolls; by that time AD&D was the thing and wasn't cheap with the prospect of needing potentially three books, at 15-18 bucks each, to play a game that honestly offered what I wanted with one book, at 20 bucks, thinner and less dictatorial on how one's fantasy world worked. I was 47 or 48 when I first ran my own D&D game of 5e. I had fun but quickly realized I would never want to run it for a convention game.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Actually, convention people are very amenable to house rules. That's my experience.

[@knightraven7772]

I also started with Basic, loved the illustrations and examples and fell in love with Morgan Ironwolf...er, forget that part. I then 'graduated' to first edition. It was not too long before I went back to BEX D&D as it was just more fun. The kicker was the table that showed how each weapon was effective against different types of armor...what a headache to keep straight what your dagger was good against, and your axe, and your crossbow, and you mace...(collapses under the weight of all that equipment). For me 5e makes that all seem simple to keep track of 😕 I do like 5e, but you better put a +5 hat of intelligence to keep things going.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Morgan Ironwolf!

[@keithkannenberg7414]

I think Gygax at one point admitted that he never used the weapon vs. armor table.

[@jettolo]

Dear Professor, i want to share with you a recent experience i had in RPG My group and I recently got tired of D&D so we tried something different: we've written down some basic rules with the intention of making OSR-style quick games. Our intent was to make a simple generic system to apply to any possible theme or setting for campaigns lasting 6-9 month max. The session zero day i thought i will be the GM , but when players started making character one of them feel inspired and wanted to take advantage of the simple rules to master himself the game. We all agreed and everything went extremely smoothly, I had never experienced such a powerful sensation of freshness and immediacy before now in RPGs The experiment was a real success, we had a lot of fun, and most of all we remembered why we loved this hobby for all this time

[@GontltsufOgrpwr]

Interesting point about how many members of your group are unexposed to Critical Role. Only 2 of the 8 in one of my groups are privy to the phenomenon, all of which are in their 20’s. It seems that the many iterations of D&D are truly generational specific, highlighting the razor sharp divide with a heat lamp. BX and AD&D were familiar and similar for the 70’s and 80’s kids. 5e barely is recognizable in many regards to previous incarnations.

[@rikai5344]

I am from Germany and I have never even heard of it.

[@brandonkelbe]

@@rikai5344 I have avoided it religiously.

[@copperclockmaker]

I 100% agree with the "dungeon master's statement" being in the PHB, and reading about like what you have there. The most important part being "if you don't like it, become a DM".

[@dannymurray9047]

Nearly there, professor... The 100 K subscribers are in sight! I await developments with baited breath.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Lol. My first video after 100k will be called "Thank you. I will now destroy this channel." Watch for it.

[@gregh5665]

I remember when Dragonlance came out. We played the first module before reading the first (at that time only) book. And I remember, as a player, feeling both enthralled by the setting but intimidated by a sense of expectation. I had to live up to the enormous potential of this campaign. Looking back, our group had always played "low fantasy" and we were at home there. No surprise, ultimately we gobbled up the Dragonlance books but abandoned the modules. The "high fantasy" epic approach isn't for everyone. I can't agree more with the principles you advocate: keeping the rules - and expectations - simple, adaptable and flexible makes for a better game. Encourage simplicity and creativity and you encourage inclusiveness, and increase potential. From a commercial perspective, additional rules and campaigns can be layered-on as options or "niches" for those who are interested, rather than embedded as core elements, since they will appeal to some but might alienate others. Shouldn't it be possible to translate this approach into broader appeal and better sales in the long run? Sigh... Obviously not. Keep up the good fight. I definitely think you're doing right by the game! PS - It took us 5 years of weekly play (summer vacation excepted) to reach 10th level, about half of our characters surviving the journey. And we loved it.

[@unusuallycloudy]

Honestly I don’t mind 5e being rules heavy. As a long time MTG player I enjoy knowing that even though the rules can become complicated there is always a right answer to a problem. 5e on the other hand didn’t go far enough, if you decide that you are a rules heavy game, you better not have obvious gaps where you tell a DM to make something up and that there is no right answer.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Cool! Rock on!

[@keithkannenberg7414]

You're not wrong to like rules heavy. But I think it's so limiting to say that there's always a "right answer" in an RPG. To me TTRPGs are fundamentally open ended and no rule set can ever have the answer to everything.

[@starblaze27]

A lot of this is on point. I haven't been a DM of a game for many years so when I went to DM a 5e game it took a bit to get into, and was also overwhelming because I had a few who played races that were outside the PHB and after a couple of sessions I was asked a lot on when they were going to level up and the like. Also didn't help it was a lot of home-brew. I am now about to start one from a module and I have stated that some races may not be allowed because in this world they originally do not exist and have had some resistance to it, saying that they could have come from another world and that the module book even says it can be done, but I have said that for the purpose of this module, those native to the world are allowed. One reason I stated was that if a non native race appeared there, they would clearly be a target by various factions to either learn, study, or exploit to their own ends.I ended saying that if we decide to go further after this module and want to use this world again and go outside the module or home-brew, then maybe we can talk it over.

[@killjoy686]

Overall good points overall and I agree that the main thing that the latest edition needs to do is make GMing easier and more approachable. Lots of reassurance, advice on how to handle the main aspects of GMing. Like actual advice and frameworks. The Lazy Dungeon Master really did make GMing easier, more fun and much more satisfying to do. I am defs not against adding having lots of rules. While I like a rules light systems but there is something fun about learning and mastering a system like DnD or Pathfinder. Both types of games can exist in the world. I do also think the DMG should make points that the GM should expect to lose and have some stuff circumvented. I think players should be allowed to use features in order to feel powerful. I mean how often does water breathing come up? I love when my players do thing that get around what I have planned. I expect I am going to lose and have some things be not as powerful. The fun of GMing is creating a scenario and seeing how your players react to that scenatrio. That's what it is to me at least. The same sort of appeal as Mario maker. Making a cool level and seeing people really enjoy it. I also agree that the DMG should make mention about being allowed to exclude material. Some things don't fit into one's world, are too powerful or prevent a certain feeling that the GM might be looking for (a more dangerous game for example). I do have two caveats with this however. I think the first one is remove any needed hostility. I am sure what you said was tongue and cheek but I have seen some DMs come off this hostile. While a GM is the final say there is room for discussion amongst players and GMs to find a fun middle ground. And second there should a be a warning for GMs maybe not to do this until they have more experience with things. GMs aren't always the best judges for balance. The classic example is nerfing rogue sneak attack because it feels too powerful (when it isn't in anyway) so sometimes GMs make bad calls and there should be a space to discuss about things rather than have the GM let all the power go to their head. But overall good video and hopefully more GMs learn that GMing is really fun and you don't have to perfect about it. Just run some dungeons or a small town and work your way up from there.

[@Radiotomb]

As a longtime Pathfinder 1e GM, the robust rules system has provided my group with consistency and predictability. RAW/RAI adherence cuts down on bruised egos, and allows me as the GM to open the Bestiary and use a monster without wasting time modifying in inconsistent houserules. The more rules, the less I have to worry about making a panicked snap judgments, bias, and those judgments getting forgotten before the next game session, or contradicted later. This appears to be the complete opposite mindset for DMing in the 5e landscape. Sounds exhausting to have to tell a story AND be your own System Mechanics designer, simultaneously.

[@RupertFoulmouth]

Great video. I think the idea of "fewer rules = more difficult to DM" is only for DM's who don't have the confidence to just make the decisions. Some players are very argumentative and some DM's are timid.

[@markapgar7437]

I agree, I have played with many people who would definitely try to argue any non-rules to their advantage.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Yup!

[@ScottBaker_]

I think there's a reason we have so many Rules Lawyers now. I don't remember it being a big thing early on in my gaming days.

[@opaqued2039]

@@ScottBaker_ That could be an interesting discussion about why there seems to be more rules lawyers now. In my own experience, I've had more rules lawyers from D&D 3e on (including both editions of Pathfinder).

[@AGrumpyPanda]

I'd say it's not so much how many rules there are, it's how much the rules cover. Apocalypse World, for example, has very little by way of rules, but since the Moves cover everything you might want to do all the MC has to do is make the odd choice from a list, according to the fiction of the moment.

[@markpowell5228]

Absolutely loved your DM Statement!! As it always has been & should continue to be!

[@jasonmountain4643]

The simple solution is to leave 5E for good. I have, others are doing the same.

[@jnlsnfamily8747]

Yup.

[@trpdrspider8372]

The 5e to OSR pipeline has begun!

[@Klijpo]

Spot on on your suggested guidance for the PHB. So many times when I've suggested placing limits on species and class selections for world-building purposes, the players (mostly the newer ones) have responded like I'm stealing their toys.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Lol. Yep.

[@sutekh233]

To which your immediate reply is "you're breaking my game"

[@Klijpo]

@@sutekh233 Where did I say that?

[@sutekh233]

@@Klijpo You didn't. My response was to what you should say in that situation. It's YOUR game for cryin' out loud. Do you see articles and podcasts and YT vids saying "oh no there is a shortage of player's"?? Nope, you see ones saying there is a shortage of DM's. Have people truly forgotten that it's the DM's game??

[@Klijpo]

@@sutekh233 Apols, it was very unclear to me as to the context of your response. In this case, it wasn't a bunch of internet randos, but the regular in-person group (forced online because pandemic). I was surprised by the strength of the reaction to some simple limits.