How to Solve the Voynich Mystery!

[@Neilhuny]

The Voynich Manuscript was my introduction, many years ago, to the whackier side of the internet, and to conspiracy theories. I was fascinated when I first heard of it and tried to find out more, to see what I could make of it. Some of the ideas were completely bizarre, so I dropped the whole subject. This has reignited that fire - I want to find out more, but very, very sceptically

[@malcolmrichardson3881]

Excellent, thought-provoking video. The illustrations and text by different hands, might possibly suggest a small, secretative group of alchemists - with their own private language, incapable of being decoded by church or other medieval authorities. Perhaps the key to its decoding was kept in their heads - and died with them. A fascinating video. Thank you.

[@ftumschk]

Excellent video. BTW (6:21) a "codex" simply means a book with pages. It has nothing to do with ciphers, and the fact that it has "code" in it is deceptive - that is, it's not the same as the "code" in "code-breaker". The Latin word "codex" originally referred to a block of wood that was sliced thinly into pages that could be written on.

[@thebigdog2295]

Plot twist, the Vonich manuscript is a cookbook. It written in a mystery language because it has all of grandma's secret recipes. 😄

[@QScoobie]

“How to Cook Man”

[@thebigdog2295]

@QScoobie It's actually; To Serve Man. Look up to serve man if you don't know what I'm referring to.

[@arthurerickson5162]

@@thebigdog2295was going to write that myself! Well done!

[@thebigdog2295]

@arthurerickson5162 Thanks.

[@DanishGSM]

Lol

[@TheImmortalArt]

You should do a deeper investigation and longer video, Paul. Who's with me? Who thinks Paul should do it?

[@pulaski1]

I think video covers most of the information that is objectively true. Beyond this video you would mostly just head off into a maze of conspiracy worm holes.

[@paulinehedges5088]

Paul...you have excelled this week! I have to admit I did not know about this manuscript and now I do! And want to know more!! Really great way to end 2024. Thank you.👏👏👏

[@perrydowd9285]

So the mystery deepens. I love it when the answers raise more questions. It proves someone's doing their job properly. 👍

[@Bender24k]

Studio looking GREAT! Excellent graphics work too. Another riviting tale, thanks Paul! Hi Rebecca.

[@chrisrovai9625]

One of the best looks at this incredible head scratcher, nice one. My take is it isn't a hoax; it isn't gibberish; it isn't aliens: it seems to be a language proper. Your take that it's a language unknown or some clique language is possible. Love this mystery and how the best minds are stumped.

[@ianjackson5150]

I love all your videos, but this one is really special. Very happy New Year to you and yours, Paul. I'm looking forward to your work in the coming year.

[@pwhitewick]

Thank you Ian. Same to you

[@marcconyard5024]

Seems to be perhaps a collection of instructions on how to prepare natural medicines from plants or a catalogue used by early practitioners. Watching this I couldn't help think that maybe it was a coded language known only by a small group of practitioners to avoid persecution by the church which in early times would put naturopaths (witches) to death. Of course, nobody is left alive who remembers or has reference to decipher the text. Fascinating.

[@tommaude9490]

One of the most perceptive and accurate comments here so far, very refreshing for someone to get so close, but still a way to go, but well done.

[@GiacomodellaSvezia]

That sounds very plausible. On the other hand, it's odd that it seems to have been used just for this particular document: there are no copies or other texts in the same language (if it is one). I haven't heard or read anything about the possibility that some language model may come up with a useful translation, but those are constantly improved and refined. It's unlikely that it's complete gibberish, so I expect a solution sooner or later.

[@micah06v8]

I came across an article about this manuscript when I was in college (a long time ago!) and have always thought it was a fascinating thing! Personally, I think it is some sort of Alchemy or Herbology or some combination thereof. Perhaps written by monks who had their own language or form of shorthand within just their cloister.

[@anniemills2522]

That's what think, but a nunnery. Men would have been taught to read/write, whereas women back then were not. I would think it would be a cloister.

[@armisteadab]

You have told me something new about the manuscript- which after watching everybody else's video, is impressive.

[@martynhaggerty2294]

Having your own studio has taken your production to another level.

[@Zenas521]

For anyone too young to remember what life was like before the internet, people would buy large tomes called desk references, kind of like the cliff notes of a multi volume encyclopedia. It would have only the most requested information within. When you get a good one, it opens the world to you. The Voynich manuscript is implied to be an aristocrat or noblemen's desk reference. So Lisa Fagin Davis seems to figure out what it is, but not what it says. Cool...

[@Sim0nTrains]

Nice interesting video and love how it presented in the studio

[@DavidBright-f6c]

Good mystery and a fine job explaining where it stands in history. To continue your last statements, what kind of book would be used daily -- a religious text, a cookbook, a guide for farmers, an astronomy/astrology text, a medical text. I've run out of daily use books from the 1500's, but these types might provide an entry key.

[@highpath4776]

when was DaVinci about ?

[@wessexdruid7598]

A wizard's spells and potions guide?

[@wessexdruid7598]

@@highpath4776 A lot later than this was first recorded.

[@highpath4776]

@@wessexdruid7598 thats OK, it appears it is a turkish script, in part poetry form , a kind of almanac for the months of the year ( not been looked at by those that worked bits out but I wonder if the 12 divisions - unusual as is a "normal" ish calendar and not appearing specifically associated with religious working ), I wonder if DaVinci had access to similar - trade routes to Italy etc from Turkey existed and there is probably some common plants and science.

[@highpath4776]

@@wessexdruid7598 A lot of seed bearing flowers not that I can quite work out what they are, some are sunflower seeds possibly

[@alanm6454]

A huge success there Paul. I was as confused at the end as I was at the beginning. That seldom haooens with your videos.

[@bubzthetroll]

I first learned of this from Simon Singh's The Code Book. I even got on an email list of academics discussing this many years ago because I was fascinated to see where the research was going. One theory was that at least some of the illustrations were of very early microscopy.

[@bcfr66]

Thanks!

[@pwhitewick]

Thank you

[@wktodd]

My take. Five hands suggests a family. Encyclopedia style suggests education. So, perhaps we have a parent(sibling?) with some knowledge of handwriting (perhaps only as a child themselves) trying in isolation to educate their offspring/siblings on what their life was like (hence the drawings from memory perhaps that almost match know plants etc.) . That raises a question of migration, perhaps forced migration (purge? Disease?) . More questions than answers of course....

[@highpath4776]

would you say more Indian ? Mongolian ? or Central European as a source ?

[@philw6056]

@@highpath4776 The fashion style depicted several times in the manuscript is similar to the "boar and bear hunt tapestry" from 1425-1430 woven in Arras(France) and now in the Victoria and Albert museum in London. Even more interesting, this fashion style with baggy elbow sleeves is almost exclusively known from 1400-1430 europe. This corroborates the radiocarbon dating and also helps pointing to a place(most likely france or southern germany). But it definitely shows that the authors had knowledge about specific, shortlifed european fashion styles.

[@ey954]

i think they should try to do a DNA on that manuscript. or do an isotope test on the pages or the ink. that might give some clue.

[@robinwatling6538]

was going to skip this, but am totally captivated watched twice! thank you

[@SteamCrane]

It is a good plan not to skip any of Paul and Rebecca's videos.

[@davetaylor4741]

Another cliff hanger. Hadn't heard of this document. Given the illustrations and that it was in common use, it looks like a planting guide. My wife has very similar documents today. When and what to plant according to the season and the stars. Surprising it hasn't been worked out given the number of repeating words. You would think a super computer could knock this over easily.

[@vailpcs4040]

Note: @3:45 the voice over says "...at the University of Arizona..." which is in Tucson, AZ. However, the images are of Arizona State University, in Tempe, AZ. It's not a huge deal, but given the 2 schools' rivalries and 100+ miles between them, some may find this a sticking point. This would be similar to referencing Oxford and showing images of Cambridge.

[@pwhitewick]

I'll add to the description. Cheers

[@davidprice1356]

I love the fact that no one has been able to decode this mystery. One side of me hopes it stays a mystery. I like it when the eggheads are stumped.

[@RegebroRepairs]

It will stay a mystery, because there isn't anything to decipher.

[@robertgross1655]

🎩Hi, I have a copy and I think I have identified one plant so far, the wild pansy and on the previous page what appears to be either grafting or coppicing. The pictures are all stylised so makes it hard. It still didn’t help with the text though.

[@pwhitewick]

I was fascinated to learn that the language somehow matches the drawings

[@vsvnrg3263]

another commenter has recognised a cats claw. do you have a time in this video for the wild pansy?

[@tommaude9490]

@@pwhitewick Correct, it does.

[@cheriestl]

Oh! You do such a great job a introducing us to these mysteries.

[@roderickmain9697]

Its a written language. So although there may be 5 (or more) authors, all of them knew how to write in this language. We might conclude from this that there should be other documents written in the same language ...somewhere. If we could find one of those we might start guessing at a language evolution which would give us a modern language we could use as a starting to point to reverse translate it. Over the last 500+ years it would seem no other documents in the same language have come to light. In order to get some sort of machine translation to work, you'd have to have some idea what any group of "letters" meant. Whether it was a verb or a noun, adjective or adverb. We might conclude that the drawings are being described so might be able to associate some groups with some sort of descriptive words. In Science fiction stories, computers work out some alien language in half a chapter or 5 minutes of screen time. But we also know that even if we know the final language, decoding text isnt that straightforward (see "The Imitation Game"). Its a mystery for many reasons. Still intriguing.

[@polbecca]

This is approximately the technique that was used to decipher and understand Linear B. Linear A however is still undeciphered.

[@MrCuddlyable]

@roderickmain9697 In english the words IT'S and ITS are spelled differently because they mean different things.

[@Curt_Sampson]

Given the enormous amount of text have have in this supposed "language," not to mention context of location, nearby images, and so on, we surely would have gotten a start at translating it by now if it actually had any meaning. The very same statistical characteristics of it that make it appear to be a language, along with the quantity of text, are also the characteristics that would allow use to at least partially decode it if it really were.

[@greybeardcanadian1036]

Interesting! Yes, knowing it's usage really does change the game. I had always made the assumption that this was a precious, valuable text from the start. Discovering that it is far more "commonplace" really does make one think about it in a new way. I have never thought it was a cipher. The illustrations are a part of it, and one writes in a cipher to conceal information. The pictures would have acted in the opposite way.

[@charlieshanowsky6103]

Another fascinating and seemingly impossible manuscript is the Devil's Bible-Codex Gigas. The handwriting remains astonishingly consistent throughout, suggesting it was the work of a single scribe. However, it would be nearly impossible for one person to write it over years without any changes in the handwriting's style or character.

[@na195097]

Not necessarily. I studied drafting in college and there was a specific lettering used in engineering drawings. The same can be said for those who do calligraphy by hand. The writer strives to mimic a set “typeface” and in doing so would be less prone to changes. It isn’t their everyday writing. I image the same is true for scribes.

[@dedelson550]

Saw this on an episode of "Expedition Unknown," this weekend. Couldn't help myself.GPT 4o. Just a small sample. You said: translate to english ChatGPT said: ChatGPT Translating the transliterated text into English is a speculative exercise because the Voynich Manuscript does not directly map to a known language or encoding system. However, I can offer an interpretive framework based on the structure and possible context of the manuscript. ________________________________________ Hypothetical Translation Strategy: 1. Patterns and Repetition: o Identify recurring phrases or words and assign speculative meanings (e.g., "צll" could mean "all" or "everything"). 2. Contextual Guessing: o Use the botanical illustration as a guide to infer that the text might describe the plant's properties, uses, or preparation. 3. Functional Structure: o Assume that sections of the text follow a recipe-like or descriptive format. ________________________________________ Speculative Translation Example: Based on the transliterated text: • "צll" → "All" • "oש לuצko שrש" → "This plant is..." • "poושrש hצlש" → "It is harvested and prepared..." • "צlש צhצצ תiצnts" → "Its seeds are ground into powder." • "ל לuששrשr סrulins" → "A tonic is made for rejuvenation." • "wשק עצlש | לutצss לun" → "The leaves are boiled and used for..." ________________________________________ Example (Hypothetical Translation): "All parts of this plant are used. Its seeds are ground into powder to create a tonic. The leaves are boiled and used for healing rituals. This plant is best collected in the summer. It grows in shaded regions and near water sources." ________________________________________ This approach involves a speculative reconstruction that aligns with the herbal or alchemical theme of the manuscript. Would you like to refine this translation further, or explore specific sections in more detail? You said: yes ChatGPT said: ChatGPT Let’s refine the speculative translation further by breaking the transliterated text into smaller segments and assigning potential meanings based on the structure, repetition, and context (e.g., botanical or alchemical uses). Here’s a step-by-step approach: ________________________________________ Refined Speculative Translation 1. First Segment: • Transliterated Text: "צll oש לuצko שrש ג poושrש hצlש @xoxב °%" • Speculative Translation: "All parts of this plant are valuable. Its roots are harvested for tonics, and the berries are dried for powders." ________________________________________ 2. Second Segment: • Transliterated Text: "צlש צhצצ תiצnts ל לuששrשr סrulins" • Speculative Translation: "The seeds are ground into powder and mixed with water to create a rejuvenating tonic." ________________________________________ 3. Third Segment: • Transliterated Text: "עoרצl rי לצtש צרllos צs ע ys" • Speculative Translation: "The leaves are steeped to make a healing tea, useful for soothing ailments." ________________________________________ 4. Fourth Segment: • Transliterated Text: "wשק עצlש | לutצss לun tשsts sרl הב תrש -" • Speculative Translation: "The plant thrives in shaded areas and requires moist soil for optimal growth." ________________________________________ 5. Fifth Segment: • Transliterated Text: "pשמ כoy כors לiצ" • Speculative Translation: "Harvest in late spring when the berries turn red." ________________________________________ 6. Sixth Segment: • Transliterated Text: "עצllש כor, תoliצs גאגא זה ponש לצתooll לצs צxצliot ovצtion" • Speculative Translation: "Use all parts of the plant in preparation, ensuring proper storage to retain potency." ________________________________________ 7. Seventh Segment: • Transliterated Text: "; tשh צ nots ors תצl orדא ו לrשצsש כצsצii" • Speculative Translation: "This herb is particularly effective for calming the mind and body during rituals." ________________________________________ ChatGPT can make mistakes. Check important info.

[@Hairnicks]

So different, thank you this was fascinating.

[@Seven-Planets-Sci-Fi-Tuber]

One of my favorite mysteries! Thank you for the update.

[@pwhitewick]

Thank you. I think the Lida Davis "update" definitely helps out things into perspective

[@Seven-Planets-Sci-Fi-Tuber]

@@pwhitewick Definitely, Paul. I think the next will involve artificial intelligence. Personally I think it's a piece of art created by a brilliant mind without any specific purpose other than art for the sake of art.

[@billyruss]

Fascinating one, I'd never heard of it. The text looks so familiar - like a mix of various characters I've seen before - but not like any of them. Intriguing.

[@rhysun]

Possibly a demonstration piece or an exercise book for apprentice scribes. The text is probably gibberish similar to the "lorem ipsum" used today as filler text in graphic design.

[@philhermetic]

Been fascinated by the Voynich for many years! Not a hoax, to elaborate and would have taken many many hours of work, even by five people, to produce! Excellent video Paul!

[@wktodd]

Hoax? Some have suggested the early Christian texts were a hoax written by romans . Look how that turned out ;-)

[@johnbennett1465]

While I tend to agree it is not a hoax, the effort needed is not definitive proof. When enough money is involved, hoaxers have been willing to spend years of effort.

[@richardcastle3204]

Yes, the current evidence suggests it's not a hoax. However, I disagree with your logic: just a quick Google of "literary hoax" throws up plenty of examples where people have put in the hours, effort, research and planning to imbue their work with at least an element of authenticity/believability. And that's before considering other forms of hoax (art, science, even nonsense such as crop circles).

[@syn_bandy9208]

Paul already presented a video on a hoax 'ancient Roman travel' manuscript, don't let your own subjective bias and desire for it to have 'meaning' interfere with the interpretation. Start with what is known and work from there, no guesses...

[@syn_bandy9208]

Hoaxes are not always about money, though often are. Start with the facts that are known, work to the unknown. Paul mentioned they had people create jibberish books and this jibberish resulted in the same statistical pattern, so it is best to stop personally 'wanting' this to have more meaning than it may have.

[@michaelball68]

This is a fascinating subject. I watched an online talk about it in September on Skeptics in the Pub Online, called "The Voynich Manuscript: The World’s most Enigmatic Book from a Skeptical Perspective - Elonka Dunin and Klaus Schmeh". Really interesting! The video of the show is on KZbin on the SitPO channel.

[@CJLloyd]

I've always thought that attempts to understand the Voynich manuscript often miss one key point: it is entirely possible that the reason the text looks like a language instead of a cipher, is because it IS a language. And the reason the script is one that nobody knows is because it's not a script anyone outside the author(s) was using. There is a community of people today who do just such a thing: constructer language makers, (conlangers). If this is literally a piece of creative writing, a fictional book written in a fictional language, it could easily explain everything about it, though it would also vastly reduce the chance of it ever being deciphered. IT would be a massive undertaking for a single individual, but if Lisa is right, and it's written by five people, that would make it easier to produce. I'm not saying that is obviously what the manuscript is, but I do think this idea that it's either hoax or wholly real is a false disctinction. A work of fiction is neither, and would fit perfectly.

[@paulmoffat9306]

I though that it had been translated (decoded if you will) several years ago, and is apparently written in Old Turkish script language.

[@Curt_Sampson]

That's not a key point missed by those examining the manuscript; many have suggested that it's a language, including people who've done statistical analysis on the symbols and "words" and shown that they have characteristics of natural languages. But it's the very availability of so much text with these characteristics that argues against it being a language instead of gibberish. It's not _trivial_ to reverse-engineer languages from examples like this, but it's something that, especially with computers having been available for this for the past half century, we can do. This isn't Linear A with 300 unique symbols and an entire corpus of only 6400 symbols available; here we have _170,000 characters_ (divided into about 35,000 words), quite a massive amount for analysis.

[@davidberlanny3308]

Hi Paul, Very interesting, never heard of this before. Intriguing shape to the letters. In Spain there are four official languages three of which come to the modern day from Latin but the fourth is of completely unknown origin, the Basque language. These are known as language isolates. Basque is the only one in Europe. Could this one also be from some isolated land where it was once spoken? Thanks for presenting this conundrum!! All the best!!

[@highpath4776]

Interesting too how spoken languages move to written ones (ok A for Antelope with its horns crossed)

[@tommaude9490]

Don't go West for this, go much father East.

[@kchastain3]

It’s a medieval gynecology manual written in a particular language to obscure the text. The imagery is also an allusion to things that were inappropriate to be contained in a book at the time.

[@gregsonvaux4492]

For those who don't know, one of the sections is filled with naked women taking baths in strange looking pools.

[@sillymothz]

This is fascinating; I hope someday we can decode this and learn the details of this manuscript. It would be interesting no matter what it is.

[@shirleylynch7529]

Wow what a fascinating story. What a mystery. A family diary perhaps. Who knows but what a journey through time it has had.

[@steamingbob]

Loving the new studio

[@jeffl3205]

First video from the new offices? Looking very comfortable, Paul. And the lovely Rebecca is in the adjoining room? ❤ This document had me intrigued the first time i heard of it. Deciphering it may be a let down if we find it to be just someone's fantasy. ❤

[@pwhitewick]

A work in progress, but this is the first set up. Cheers

[@hainanbob6144]

Enjoyed it! PS Happy New Year to you, Rebecca and the tribe!

[@WC21UKProductionsLtd]

I have absolutely no idea. I thought it looked a bit suspicious! As though it was intended to confuse and intrigue. On a technical note, the texture of the studio footage was great. Not sure if that was colour grading, filters or just the lighting, but it looked cool. Happy new year to Team Whitewick.

[@pwhitewick]

@WC21UKProductionsLtd Cheers WC21. I need some kore soft lighting and such, but working on my Johnny Harris set up shortly.

[@EGDD-42]

Is there any information on the frequency of the scribe changing in the text? Is it by the page, chapter, subject matter, or a random change? - could it be a travel journal written in code describing a society & keeping secrets? A sort of my voyages to the mysterious orient type thing & what's worth trading for pepper & spices?

[@llywrch7116]

There is a published paper about the number of hands, so that information should be available. What puzzles me is that in another KZbin video, this gentleman (who admittedly is a bit full of himself) noted that there are no blotched words. If you've ever copied anything of serious length -- more than a page -- you will make a mistake, & have to strike out or remove words. Based on this, he believes the words are not important but that it's the rhythm or music represented by these words that is important. While there is a copy of the Codex online -- I found it years ago -- I don't remember seeing any signs of mistakes in writing. But then I've never examined similar manuscripts to check this against. I know that every manuscript has errors of omission or duplication, sometimes omitted words are inserted above the line, but I have yet to find a manuscript that has signs of strike-outs or blotted words. (Maybe Medieval scribes were more careful than people writing today.)

[@QALibrary]

Did you come across or look up the Masquerade book? It is a picture book, written and illustrated by Kit Williams and published in August 1979 Only just recently the code was cracked and the jewelled golden hare was found

[@pwhitewick]

Oh wow. Nope, I did not.

[@ostsan8598]

I thought Masquerade was cracked in the early 1980s.

[@highpath4776]

@@ostsan8598 once by brute force ( the person finding it found out where the writer lived , went there and matched a picture of the rugby field to one page ), I had thought the actual code was broken though about 12 years ago .

[@ostsan8598]

@@highpath4776 I'd also read that a couple of physicists had broken the code, went to dig, but accidentally threw the box in their dirt pile. The guy who cheated found out because he knew someone who knew the author, went to the site of the hare, found it in the piled up dirt, and sent the author a rough sketch of the site to 'prove' he solved the puzzle.

[@chrisball3778]

Unfortunately you've been misinformed. The jewelled hare was found in 1982. Unfortunately, this was because Kit Williams' ex girlfriend told her new boyfriend roughly where it was and he got his mate to help him find it with metal detectors and dig it up. They initially got away with it, but got greedy. They launched a scammy ZX Spectrum computer puzzle game called 'Hare Raiser' offering the jewelled hare as a prize, even though the game was literally impossible to solve. The game flopped and they ended up in debt, and they were exposed as cheaters in a Sunday Times article in 1988. They had to sell the hare. It's periodically resurfaced and been featured in the media. The reason you saw it come up again is that a long-running French copycat buried treasure puzzle book called 'On the Trail of the Golden Owl' was finally solved this year, after originally being published in 1993, which led to a bunch of media articles referencing the original Masquerade. Unfortunately I am not making any of this up.

[@radiosnail]

Not heard of this before. Very interesting. THankyou.

[@tomwinch9107]

I worked with (and knew well, must get back in touch with him) a software engineer / games programmer who wrote a book on this manuscript, "The Curse of the Voynich: The Secret History of the World's Most Mysterious Manuscript.", Nick Pelling even has a Wikipedia page that documents this and the games he's developed.

[@HotelPapa100]

Small nitpick: A 'codex' is not a cypher, though it seems related to 'code'. A codex is a book of pages bound along an edge. Most books you buy at a bookseller's today are codices. Today the term is generally reserved for old books with pages not made of paper. (Originally it differentiated this form of binding from other forms, such as scrolls or palm-leaf manuscripts)

[@fion1flatout]

that's a really good approach. You should use the same approach to stone circles.. it's here, it's real, and it had real practical use (not just symbolism) to everyday people

[@pwhitewick]

I like it

[@derek-press]

looks like a gardening book writen by the local allotment club after a few beers

[@philiptaylor7902]

Great video Paul, I confidently predict that if the codex is ever translated, the contents will be found to be boring and banal in the extreme.

[@pwhitewick]

Agreed

[@CDeBeaulieu]

Fascinating! Could be a vede mecum for some sort of apothecary using the seasons to determine the optimum time to use particular herbs as treatment for ailments. Could it be taken from the Ancient Egyptians? They were one of the first to organise plants for illnesses (like crocus for gout) and use astrology aswell. Even today we associate the full moon with madness (hence our use of the word 'lunatic' from Latin for the Moon)... maybe the words are phonetic transliterations. Maybe the expert from the British Museum on Sumarian Cuniform (Irvin Finkel) should look at it not because it's Mesopotanic but because he managed to vocalise a dead language from its pattern!

[@davie941]

hello again Paul, we may never know *but* i hope someone can solve it one day, very interesting as always , well done and thank you 😊

[@tedrice1026]

I have read about this before. One point you didn't mention was that no one could identify most of the plants in the book, which led to doubts of its authenticity. Back in the stone age, when I was young, I remember reading a book by a Dutch sea captain who grew up and learned to sail in the Zuider Zee. He mentioned that when it was reclaimed (in the 1920's and 30's) an island appeared as the water level fell, and on it came up and grew for a short time many plants unknown in Europe. If the story is true and the Voynich Manuscript came from this area, it could be referring to those plants. In which case, the manuscript might date to before 1282, but of course, some of the plants might not have gone totally extinct until later in the 1400's. Would be interesting to find if someone photographed or pressed those unusual plants in the 1920's and try to match them to the book. Unfortunately, I don't remember the author nor have I ever been able to find it again. I do remember he was doing salvage diving off a Greek Island after WW2 with a partner. There was a submerged temple with a staircase leading down into the depths and his partner went too deep for too long trying to search a ship down there and died of the bends.

[@pixelpeter3883]

Wow, how interesting! Love enigmatic stuff like this, like the Antikythera mechanism! Fascinating :-)

[@DavidRMason1]

Happy New Year Paul and Rebecca. Looking forward to all those Sundays of 2025.

[@jagracershoestring609]

An interesting book. It looks to be a book on gardening, yet the characters resemble Norman French. Bacon, to whom Yale attribute it, was a shady character, often portrayed as a Spy, in Tudor history. Many think he was the real William Shakespeare, it resembles the format of a manual too. Well done Paul for giving us, the public, the chance to have a go at translating the book, I think I still have access to the Open University Library, so I will see what can be found.

[@krisbruenn1082]

Right, there's an obvious clue, it's written using the Latin alphabet. So we can read it without knowing the language. Now step away from a nationalist perspective. There have been an untold number of dialects, pidgins, etc. in 'Europe' before governments started making some languages official. So the Voynich is an encyclopedia for a family that probably was multilingual and didn't want the Church to know what they were doing. Given that Europe is the West end of Asia, that Finnish is Turkic, that Basque is aboriginal, and that Africa is nearby, the possible linguistic match has a wide range.

[@highpath4776]

@@krisbruenn1082 I wonder what still might be in the Vatican Library (there was another old library but it got destroyed ) I am thinking possibly a slavic language might be close

[@Curt_Sampson]

@@krisbruenn1082 It's not written using the Latin alphabet.

[@jackprier7727]

Thx, Paul. I didn't know it had that many pages.

[@pwhitewick]

Yup, I feel that makes it less likely to be an elaborate hoax

[@benlap1977]

Nice summary! Loved it. Is the weather bad down south and that's why you stayed in? Up here in Liverpool it's been very foggy.

[@PriscillaBurkshire]

The non-plant pages of the Voynich Manuscript are about Ensoulment in the tradition of Aristotle. The many star-like images are not the stars in the night sky, they are pre-born souls. The tubes/pipes show communication between the physical world and the spiritual world.

[@aengusmacnaughton1375]

I think that there is a history of copying/recopying medieval manuscripts (and illustrations) in Europe -- so is there a possibility that this is actually not the original manuscript but a copy made in the 15th century? Meaning that the original was older? Also -- has the ink been tested/dated to see if it matches the age of the vellum? Thanks Paul! Now I will have sleepless nights thinking about this! Sheesh!!!!! 😅😅😅😅

[@pwhitewick]

Haha. Apologies. Yes I think I forgot to mention. The ink sits well with the "not very flashy, basic stuff".

[@Teesbrough]

Theory 4: the answer is behind you pinned to the wall. There’s a striking similarity between some of the coloured shapes and 1) star-shaped road layout of Norwich; and 2) ovoid shape of the Norfolk coast. Could it be a gazetteer for Norfolk written in local dialect with its elongated vowels?

[@pwhitewick]

Are you thinking almost a map?

[@Teesbrough]

Map plus text equals Gazetteer, or some sort of guide. This one reminds me of Tolkien. I still have a couple of county guides to fictional places, including street maps, I wrote and drew when at Primary School in late 1960s.

[@osliverpool]

Hmm, I made a comment here a little while ago but it seems to have disappeared. Maybe it's because I sort-of linked to another YT channel, and YT is very sniffy about posting links. There's a channel by the name of Voynich Talk, which has some in-depth examinations (like the evidence that points to the date, not just the vellum carbon dating), but you'll have to search for it yourself.

[@highpath4776]

I see there is a YT from 11 years ago ! = bit too long to watch

[@jonathanreedpike]

15th century lorem ipsum with pictures. I'd liken it to a Victorian Folly.More fun than crop circles though, and for some a money maker. Maybe, since crypto is involved it's a paper form of bitcoin wallet.

[@jimrobertson8357]

The document was dated by carbon dating. Calf's Velum being expensive was often reused, by scraping the ink off the surface leaving a blank sheet. ( legal documents were often on lambs velum which you can not scrape with out leaving a mark) It is possable that old velum was obtained to write this document on at a much later date.

[@spsmith1965]

I have seen other analysis by scholars that say that it is gibberish. I think it is nonsense written for the sole purpose of conning an unsuspecting book collector.

[@highpath4776]

yeah, but you still want to know the source.

[@plotholedetective4166]

Its not gibberish its an occult fertility guide focusing on preperation for conception. The bulk of the manuscript is about bathing and cleansing using various oils and herbs to enhance fertility and lebeto. The other focal point is astronomy and lunar phases and is designed to tell the reader the best possible day and time for intercourse. You would then consult your trusty horoscopes and a kama sutra or similar manual to decide the best positions that are most likely to end in pregnancy of the desired gender with all the desired blessings and attributes. was it bullshit?.... Probably... Did people believe bullshit?... Definitely...

[@davidjuson5608]

Lisa Davis and company are over thinking this "problem". I can tell you exactly what it is: an enigma. When can I expect my Nobel Prize?

[@thornallen9687]

So a point is made of the velum feeling like cloth meaning it was well used so must be genuine. Has anyone considered the number of people trying to crack it over hundreds of years have in fact been using it so would be wearing the velum out.

[@SteamCrane]

The high point of every weekend!

[@hans7856]

It's written in Bielefeldian dialect or Drents for sure.

[@David_K_Booth]

Voynich himself has an interesting back story, and a wife whose life is at least as fascinating. The former was born Michał Habdank-Wojnicz in what's now Lithuania, under Russian imperial rule, and his revolutionary views got him sent to prison in Siberia. But he managed to escape and reach London, where he set up a bookshop, and later met, eventually marrying, Ethel Lilian Boole. She was a writer and musician. In her family, you'll find her dad and great-uncle: they are the Boole of Boolean algebra and the Everest of Mount Everest, and in her novels you will find "The Gadfly", which was hugely popular in post-revolutionary states. When it got filmed in Russia in the 1950s, they could afford to hire Shostakovich to write the music.

[@Rustinox]

The Voynich Manustcript has been decoded (translated) a few years ago. The language used in the manuscript was a type of Turkish dialect. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pmfOloCdgdJ5e80

[@NewChannel-wi7vj]

*CLOWN ALERT !!!!!!!!!*

[@NewChannel-wi7vj]

🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

[@Rustinox]

@@NewChannel-wi7vj There's no need to be disrespectful about it. Just inform yourself and you will see who 's the clown.

[@jensissons5709]

I have studied this on an off and always considered it a noteboook for personal reference. I cannot believe there were five writers. This could have been written over a lifetime and writing will change over time, so will quills and lighting. Remember knowledge was a closely guarded secret . The information is personal too....for the writer to refer to when dispensing his knowledge to others. Back in those days knowledge was power and most were uneducated . medieval marginalia was a thing too.

[@tommaude9490]

Yes your right, there wasn't five writers, well spotted.

[@matthewhaddon599]

When I first saw the document maybe 10 years or so ago I immediately recognised one of the drawings as representing Cats Claw. This is a plant that is only found in the Americas so the document cannot date before say 1500 even though the velum may be older. This corresponds quite well with the 1550 date of the first known owner so an elaborate fake?

[@pwhitewick]

Oh right. Interesting notion

[@vsvnrg3263]

do you have a time for the cats claw? in another post, someone has recognised a wild pansy and grafting.

[@osliverpool]

It might be Cats Claw, it might not. This manuscript has attracted a lot of academic attention. Botanists have examined and discussed the plants in quite some detail, and the drawings are not technically detailed enough to be sure of definite identifications, though different people have suggested a number of plausible candidates (that's as far as I understand it, at least). Also, the likely date has other evidence (stylistic evidence, etc) that supports the carbon date of the vellum. No offence, but "I think I recognise that plant, so the experts must be wrong about the date" is unlikely to be persuasive.

[@vsvnrg3263]

@@osliverpool , i'm with you. i believe it is a scam from a long time ago. how do you fill the pages of gibberish? put childish drawings of plants in amongst the gibberish. it saves on the difficulty of not repeating the same lines of gibberish. the same thing goes for the pretend astronomical type drawings. this sort of thing has been done before.

[@osliverpool]

Out if curiosity, I've just examined (admittedly briefly) the Voynich images at the Yale University site, and I don't see anything that looks to me like Cat's Claw (assuming we're talking about 'Dolichandra unguis-cati', and using the photos on Wikipedia for comparison). If you can tell us which specific illustration you think it is?

[@mikepowell2776]

Fascinating as usual. A couple of minor points; a codex is simply a manuscript in book form (as opposed to a scroll) or a list of such things as laws, it has nothing necessarily to do with ciphers or codes. Second, check spelling of ‘language’ around 7.04. How’s the Roman road project coming on? Best wishes for New Year.

[@corymoore2292]

This video is probably wrong right off the bat, the Voynich Manuscript is probably not an actual language. The only really good video I’ve seen on the Voynich Manuscript is on the KZbin channel “Esoterica”, that includes this video. Go watch the Esoterica video if you’re really interested in this topic and thank me later.

[@Curt_Sampson]

Thank you! That's a brilliant video, doing a much better job of explaining the analysis than I've been able to do here. (The conclusion that it's not actually a language, encrypted or not, is I think fairly obvious to anybody with a moderate familiarity with cryptography, statistical analysis of language, and computational linguistics.)

[@brittanyfriedman5118]

I suspect it is a work of speculative fiction. Perhaps styled as an encyclopedia of heaven as written by angels. Maybe a dream journal or poem. An object like that would be filled with speculative art and fantastical objects, could easily be expounded on by multiple authors. The fact that it is well worn can be explained by how much we still talk about it today. I'm sure it has always been mysterious as soon as it lost its original context. The primary author is probably Hans Vintler.

[@highpath4776]

so what drugs do you need to be on to see this ?

[@TheGahta]

Completely removed from what is in it, there has been a great video on how likely it is to be "authentic" aka made in the time depicted etc and it turns out to be very likely to be a genuine early 15th century manuscript But yeah, a juicy mystery and probably one where the answer will be unlikely holding up to the hype when it finally gets cracked

[@Exactlyrightmylove]

What percentage of the population knew how to write at that time? And of those who knew how to write, what was their station in life: wealthy? poor? middle class? Who would have had time to learn to write/draw and then who would have had time to create this?

[@SteamCrane]

5+ authors in the Middle Ages + elaborate illustrations = Monastery. This may have been an invented language due to perceived persecution.

[@dustylens2137]

It's odd that when you say "University of Arizona" you appear to show footage of Arizona State University (Tempe) -- which are rivals of course. Thanks for the update on the topic.

[@pwhitewick]

Damn.

[@BaronFeydRautha]

Give him a break, he is British after all. They haven't had an Independence Day yet.

[@SteamCrane]

@@BaronFeydRautha Ouch!

[@BaronFeydRautha]

@@SteamCrane LOL. At least it's not for a lack of trying. That gun powder plot got pretty far along. It's all in good fun.

[@dustylens2137]

When was that again?

[@poissonpuerile8897]

Ah, yes -- the famous Voynich Cookbook! If only we could decipher the secret recipes its cook author wrote down in it!

[@infoscholar5221]

Could it be Pictish? The last surviving, imperfect example, preserved in the Middle Ages by Irish monks? Hey, My Grandpa was Irish, so I know.

[@highpath4776]

Do the five hands fit with the main different subject areas? (assuming one isnt copying from another ?) and are the writers related ? any DNA at least to give an area of likely people / pollen in the paperwork ?

[@ringspanner]

@8:37 is #6 supposed to be Balneological? Thanks for covering this Paul, intriguing.

[@pwhitewick]

Every potential yes!

[@milanpetrovic4673]

Just saying, Guarded Laws of Money Manifestation might be the best-kept secret in books right now.

[@firesurfer]

I'm surprised no one has done a scan using the same technique used for the dead sea scrolls. It could separate ink of different levels by original and imprints from pressing. I'm sure someone has already tried feeding it into various ai systems.

[@peteregan3862]

The vellum and ink can give a scientific date as to when they were made, the hand writing, letters (latin, french, german???), illustrations will be in common with others of a certain place(s) and date(s). Should take it to the Courtauld Institute in London and they will soon place it in time and space. AI programs will soon workout whether the authors wrote anything else that still survives.

[@DavidAkhtar-k1h]

Really interesting subject, and great video - I wonder if the ink has been dated? ... Is it contemporaneous to the Vellum?

[@joelockwood8157]

I can solve a bit of it 😂 Signatura Rerum it says at the beginning: I would translate this to something like “The definitive version of all things”, but yes, we already knew it was an encyclopaedia of sorts. Anyone else notice the rose of The House of Lancaster in there as well or is that just me?

[@pwhitewick]

Interesting notion

[@vsvnrg3263]

at what time were these roses. another poster noted a cats claw and another who has a copy of it recognised a wild pansy and grafting.

[@joelockwood8157]

There’s a couple of diagrams in what is called the “Rosettes” page. My understanding is that they’re horizontal cross sections of stems. One is monocotyledons and the other is dicotyledons. I’m not the first person to realise that, right?

[@joelockwood8157]

Sorry- bad language - I meant monocotyledonous and dicotyledonous.

[@vsvnrg3263]

@@joelockwood8157 , i'd never heard of this thing. i was genuinely interested initially but now i'm sure its a hoax. crooked people have been selling fake manuscripts since or before the library at alexandria in egypt got burned down.

[@syn_bandy9208]

Sorry, not going to read all the comments, but anyone mention it may be a 'palimpsest'? The vellum (pig skin) came from an older book that had its pages resurfaced (what a palimpsest is) , so the C14 date may be true, but is not a measure of when the mystery writing was made. This would account for the 'worn' look of the pages as mentioned. Old (or new...) hoaxes are not uncommon kzbin.info/www/bejne/q5CshZKvdqt6eNk Paul presented on this one of these already.

[@highpath4776]

would lke the DNA to estimate orgin

[@tommaude9490]

I can assure you that this is not a palimpsest

[@chrisball3778]

You're on the right track, but have slightly misunderstood what a 'palimpsest' is. The term specifically refers to a piece of text that's still legible from an older book that's been recycled into a newer one. As you're clearly aware, recycling vellum and papyrus was common practice for hundreds of years, so many old books contain even older palimpsests. The Voynich manuscript is definitely not itself a palimpsest, as it hasn't itself been recycled. It may still have been made from recycled vellum, though. Someone might even find a palimpsest within the manuscript one day. Which would immediately cast doubt on the radiocarbon dating of the document.

[@chrisball3778]

@@highpath4776 radiocarbon dating is more accurate and reliable than DNA in estimating the age of an object. Even if DNA proved the geographic origin of the vellum used to make the book was exotic, then it still wouldn't prove that it hadn't been recycled and turned into a new book (which was common practice), so it wouldn't tell us much more about the text than the radiocarbon date.

[@syn_bandy9208]

@@highpath4776 ​ please read on re: DNA... @chrisball3778 you clearly misunderstand what a DNA test can accomplish. There is no comparison, in accuracy or reliability, of estimated age from C14 and a DNA analysis. A DNA analysis does not estimate age in any way, only what animal the vellum is from. DNA might indicate what broad region the pigs came from (if a regional genetic database from pigs centuries ago was available...) but in general domestication vastly reduces gene pool diversity.

[@albertalbert6967]

It is written by people for people. It is about the connection of human with divinity, with the universe, with energy, as well as showing different spiritual and material processes. It is about geometries, spiritual and energetic cyclicities, synchronicities, etc. It is about the essence of human, the human animal transposed into a relatively coded plastic form, a purely symbolic spiritual language of internal, external transformations and connections..., of infinity itself, of the matrix, of the symbolic matrix... outside is illusion, search inside = self-knowledge.., you will wander outside if you do not stay with yourself inside in connection with divinity If you search within yourself you will understand everything, absolutely everything about anything. It is the key of keys! With this information, I hope it will be easier for you to understand that code.

[@donnamartin4299]

This MS comes from a period of early travel and discovery, when knights and explorers were sent out into the world to collect information to bring back to Princes and Kings. Very few people could write, and the spelling of words in whatever language was not yet consistent. The descriptive illustrations have an 'islamic' feel to them. Perhaps this is an attempt to write cyrillic into a hand that would be readable by Europeans ie. Phonetic? The author may have been a Moor, or a crusader knight, who wrote down his observations in a travelogue form, much like many other later explorers; illustrating the script with images of the unusual things he saw. The different hands may simply be because it was added to on different journeys: A diary, an aid memoir, a keepsake travelogue, much like the scrap books of the pre-photography era. From the pages you've shown, it's not that unlike Darwin's notebooks.

[@charlesjmouse]

Always a good watch, thank you. ...i like playing this game. Stop the video: I bet the mystery could be solved by Sister Murray! (A very obscure Spike Milligan reference. Can anyone solve it?) PS: A suspicion, not a solution - It's a fake, just not a modern one. Some medieval wag saw a way to make a bit of cash or reputation. It's not a modern 'pastime'. It's conforms to the usual language frequencies because the person (or persons) who wrote it were trying to give the impression of it being 'real'. However nobody has, or will, decipher it because there is nothing to decipher... ...as an example, ever heard a child jabbering in their own made up tongue? It certainly sounds like it could be a language because it's inadvertently following the 'rules', but it's still largely gibberish. Assuming my guess is correct, the real fun would be to see if one can dig out the records of the families to which it originally belonged, to see if any indication of what the faker was attempting to sell was recorded - depending on how 'heretical' the book was advertised to be there may be no records. How? Why? Consider... If you are a manuscript dealer with a brain and a bit of a talent for languages you could make up a 'codex' like this. It wouldn't really matter if it took months or even years to do in your spare time (with or without help) as the differential in wealth between a 'person of influence' and even a 'well to do' artisan was so huge selling such a fake to the right person could set you and your family up for life if not generations. Indeed, if you could spin a good enough yarn ongoing patronage as well as cash could be yours. EDIT: Having watched the video I still think it's a medieval fake - that it's well used material, written in 'ordinary' inks by several hands still fits my suggestion that some medieval manuscript dealer, and associates, wrote it over a protracted period of time for the purpose of passing it off as something (possibly highly heretical) to a wealthy patron. No 'super secret text' would be a fully illuminated script in some specially bound cover - it would be something 'secret' and look as such, or at least I can imagine a faker making and advertising it as such. Thanks again for another excellent video. Apologies for the ramble.

[@pwhitewick]

Every possibility yes.

[@vsvnrg3263]

i'm with you 99%

[@jazzzingo1513]

Robert Edwards' recent book is a must for researching this.

[@pwhitewick]

Thank you. What does it concludeM

[@davidhayes8883]

It was once suggested that you give the top linguists lysergic acid diathylamide, turn the book upside down and mirror each page and the truth would emerge.

[@agrxdrowflow958]

I Googled "baineological." No such word exists. Google is telling me the correct word is "balneological," the the study of the therapeutic effects of natural mineral waters. It's a typo. The "l" turned into an "i".

[@highpath4776]

I thought it was Baines for statistics !