How to Starsector: Carriers/Fighters

[@LightTim]

The reason the astral has such high deployment cost is its recall device (And condensed features.) No matter how far it sends out bombers, it can call them back instantly and instantly rearm them and send them out again. This means multiple simultaneous torpedo runs if using daggers or longbows. It has basically double the firepower in a moment by doubling its bomber launches. Speaking of longbows, pair them with cluster HE heavy missile option and you have an extremely powerful pressure combo. Remember, longbows do pure hull damage as well after the armor is gone. The astral isn't just "1.5 condensed mid-line ships for the cost of 2." It's that AND a powerful carrier ability. Hi tech is always better performance and a quirk for the cost of two or more low tech ships. I mean; heck, look at how you outfit your astral. Two longbows, all anti shield beams and missiles, and three broadsides and a thunder. Of course it feels weaker than anything else in its weight class. That's a pressure build. No wonder you feel the astral is mid, you're using it as mid-liner. I would call a phase ship mid if I used it as a brawler.

[@WhatWillYouFind]

The astral keeps pace with MODDED content because of that ability. Only the most busted UAF or similar "over the top" factions compete carrier wise with it. My last full play through was high-tech only. Imagine flying around the sector killing ordos with like 10 combat ships and NEVER being allowed to auto-complete any engagement. High tech is just as much high skill as it is build knowledge. A single DOOM can be a free and easy win in most battles. Astral can take on ordos all day. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mHqVnHqFj61og5I Astrals are fucking scary. MID? Definitely not Legion and their Battlegroup variant can also go toe to toe with most vanilla content including the Ziggurat. Different builds for different battle types of course, but also definitely NOT weak. IT makes remnant stations look like a joke kzbin.info/www/bejne/rmi0ln-Yf9idg68

[@paulrogersgaming]

I did test out some bomber builds with the astral, but the limitations of bombers really put a damper the experience. Bombers seem to have a niche against mid-sized ships specifically, due to quicker ships evading them and larger ships shooting them down. However, I'm not worried about mid sized ships during the end game. Most remnant ships can outrun bombs and those that can't are armed to the teeth with energy weapons. Also, I think it's worth mentioning that in the demo @WhatWillYouFind included the Astral builds don't rely on bombers. While I'm not 100% sure on the rationale, I'd venture to guess that fighters provided more value at a more cost-effective ordnance point basis. If you have weapon slot suggestions though, I'd be down to try them out. It's hard to imagine energy beams not being used on the Astral since it has Advanced Optics.

[@paulrogersgaming]

@@WhatWillYouFind But I could field 6 Legions for the cost of 5 Astrals 🤤

[@LightTim]

​@@paulrogersgaming Going point by point. Well I don't know what bombers you're using besides longbows since you don't mention them, but it's all about how using what you have well. I bet as you find yourself, longbows are pretty decent against smaller ships, and when paired with Atropos using daggers, can handle lights well (the HE daggers make the A.I. bring up shields, which the longbows short out.) Although for larger ships you do want the reaper variant. And if you're worried about PD, remember Warthog's have PD scrambling flares, which DO get rearmed when recalled as well. And yes the dude does not use a great video example for bombers since that build is a fighter PD distraction to open up for the brawler carrier build around setting up and supporting the double reaper launchers (AKA you ARE the bomber.) It's a great astral build, but not a great astral BOMBER build, as the astral becomes the bomber. Astrals are built around their fighters/Bombers AND their two large missile slots. I would suggest the build you use with squalls, but only one warthog, 1 longbow, and then all daggers/tridents to supply bomber pressure to mix with your squall shield breaking. This is a good bomber build. You already saw a good reaper launcher build, but it's not a bomber build. Otherwise, you can go with Hurricane launchers paired with all longbows minus one pressure bomber of your choice (Khopesh or Piranha.) The Khopesh or Piranha paired with the Hurricane keep the ship you target to always keep their shields up, which allow the longbow to smack the shields leading to overload. This is a good bomber build. You could use the squalls with Khopesh or Piranhas, but that requires range because of how those bombers work, but it does pair nicely with the recall system. Any other weapons just follow under the standard principles of brawl, pressure, or support.

[@BobMcBobJr]

@@LightTim I fighting very heavy PD enemies, I would suggest 1-2 warthogs, and 1 L locust srm. The PD will be very occupied missing swarm missiles and not shooting your 4-5 bombers of choice.

[@robro2214]

Being a carrier makes me feel like a queen

[@paulrogersgaming]

"Escort me, my fighters" 💅

[@the_jingo]

“Die for me my simps”

[@wilsonspicher6690]

I like khopesh for pressure

[@Wespa64]

couple of things I like to point out: -Legion is part of the tanky bois capitals club. Its a battle carrier with tons of mounts front facing. It should always be on the frontline because its is not a "true" carrier ship unlike the astral. -to know when to mixing different fighters per carrier is incredibly important. Fighters fly in a bulk so when you mix bombers and interceptors the interceptors will behave differently than without bomber bays on your carrier. -don't put fighters on the astral. Its whole stick is to put in 6 bombers on it and instantly recall/rearm them via its ship system ability after the bombers let loose of their payload. -should have gone over which character perk points works for your fighter bays in your fleet because some do, many don't.

[@BobMcBobJr]

I was playing with the Auroran mod and my lead ship was a 14th BG Legion. I gave it all the defensive hullmods (like heavy armor) and the thing took 4 ... 4!!! ... catgirl nukes and still had 70% hull remaining. If you are going carrier spam, it makes a great frontliner that still brings yet more fighters. Plus you can give it some good missile and flak support for your fighters to increase their effectiveness (flak for enemy fighters/missiles and missiles for either dps or fighter screen, the swarmer actually makes for a great fighter screen as all the enemy's PD will be firing at a bunch of useless missiles).

[@Teixas666]

to Add the ELgion is also stated in a way where not only do you want to be in the thick of it if able, its weapon hardpoint almost encourage you to fit support fighters on its bays a LEgion with a full array of Xyphos or another EMP heavy fighter basically creates a no man's land where no enemy ship has full functionality nearthat legion. on your 2nd point, the other factors are engagement range and craft speed. if you are doing combvined runs with bombers you want your other wings to fly along said bombers to cover them, for instance a 3 bay carrier might wanna do something like 1x Broadswrd, 1x longbow, 1xDagger if its engaging on ship v ship combat as those 3 wings have similar speeds and engagement ranges so they will open their runs together.

[@slickrounder6045]

@@Teixas666 So you think its better for my Legion X14 Capital to have support fighters with it? It's my only capital right now and I have numerous destroyer tier ships escort it with s-mod Escort Package, including my only other Carrier, a Condor (that has 2 Thunder Interceptors). My current build for the Legion XIV (vanilla, no mods besides Fleet Size by DP) - 2 Broadsword and 1 Longbow and 1 Dagger. Weapons are 5 Hypervelocity Drivers with the 2 Large Missiles being Hurricane-Mirv, and then all Vulcans). Have ECCM Package built in as an s-mod, as well as Armored Weapon Mounts s-mod, w/ Integrated Targeting Unit, Expanded Missile Racks, and Heavy Armor not built in. May decide to build in Expanded Deck Crew as 3rd s-mod as shown in this video. Lvl 4 Officer w/ Elite Ballistic Mastery, Elite Helmanship (really helps its piss poor speed), Missile Specialty (may give it elite once I get Cybernetic), and Ordinance Expertise (helps alot with the flux since only have 5 capacitors and 17 vents used. Have 1007 flux dissipation and 1035 from weapons, with 200 shield upkeep (Albeit its not on often since over 2400 armor does work. Have yet to get Flux Regulation Technology skill that I believe should further help fully solve Flux issues despite the relatively low investment into vents/capicators). Am open to suggestions of what you think its best fighters will be. I have things like Hammerhead, Medusa, the Condor I mentioned, and 2 missileboats in the form of Mules (Pirate) as all the destroyers with escort package that surround it (my other main fleet is flagship Eagle X14, Eradicator, 2 Omens, Gryphon, Falcon X14, and a Monitor that does its own thing). Note i also have numerous Remnant Fighters that I haven't tried yet that I could use on the Legion if they are worthwhile.

[@Pilvenuga]

@@slickrounder6045 Making the Legion into a ship that can both attack and defend is a losing battle due to the low combat speed of it. It will get your Legion caught out at bad positions when faced with superior opponents. One way you could go about it is to forego caution and make the Legion a Breaker type of ship. Fleetwise this means you have some carrier support/frigate screen that is survivable, but for the Legion itself it is a different approach. You'll want Locusts in the L missile slots - best PD against fighter/bombers there is. You'll want some frontal PD, like 1 flak (not dual flak, it sucks) and 2 vulcan/machineguns to soften incoming things like rocket spam. The rest all goes into creating cheap kinetic pressure. Autocannons, autocannons and more autocannons. Unless you have the elited PD skill on its captain, in which case some Machine guns and Heavy MGs can be slotted in on the foremost slots. Having one or two hypervelocity drivers is ok, as it allows your Legion to pressure nippy frigates better but is in the end irrelevant due to the flux cost of HVD's. Put 1 Xyphos and 3 Atropos-wielding bombers (Trident are better in harder battles, as they will tank enemy PD and work - Dagger are better in easier battles since they free up points for flux) and, most crucially - slot in Defensive Targeting Array. This will help boost your Xyphos but most crucially your bombers can no longer leave from your battleship orbit. Which means, when you suppress the enemy flux with your flux efficient kinetic weapons, the Atropos wave your bombers will unrelentingly release is going to find targets that are too high on flux to bring up shields without overloading. The 1 Xyphos wing is dual purpose in that it adds to your PD, while also working that godlike Ion Beam to screw and disable the targets you've forced to drop shields with your kinetic pressure. While you could go 1 Xyphos, 1 Broadsword, 2 bombers on the Legion, i like to have Drovers supporting with Broadswords to overpressure the enemy. The Legion needs its big mallet in terms of 3 bomber wings to break some spines. Overall, you will not need to boost the missile capacity of the XIV Legion when you use Locusts, since by the time they run out with no skill or mods for extra missiles you've either won the battle or lost. The extra armor and flux on the XIV variant means you can both tank more and push more damage out, which lends itself well to being a breaker. Without Defensive Targeting Array, your bombers will be flying all over the place hitting at targets of opportunity, but this usually means those targets have time to pull back into friendly cover and recover before having to deal with your bombers. Having an angry slab of steel charge at them with many, MANY guns blazing and pressuring their flux, while launching a regenerative wave upon wave of Atropos torpedoes while all this pressure is going on breaks ships, fast.

[@slickrounder6045]

@@Pilvenuga "You'll want Locusts in the L missile slots - best PD against fighter/bombers there is. " I went w/ S-mod ECCM package as well as regular Expanded Missile Racks and my officer has Missile Specialization, so I am using 2 Hurricane Mirvs as finishers (30 Ammo, so last for 7mins 30 seconds of continuous fire, i.e the entire battle for even long battles). They complement the 5 Hypervelocity Drivers well since that is a lot of shield pressure, and any time weapons or engines get disabled, the opposing ship is done for. Have Elite Helmsmanship, coordinated maneuvers for +20% speed, and 100% CR, so my Legion XIV is not as that bad with speed/maneuverability. Will likely make Impact Mitigation Elite for another 50% maneuverability bonus. I have my 2nd carrier as a new pristine Executor, that in its 2 large missile slots is using 2 Locusts as a screen for fighters/missiles/fast frigates. It has no investment in missiles (no eccm package or expanded missile racks. Also for the 6th officer skill took target analysis over Missile Specialization since Target Analaysis is really strong and its bonus damage also applies to the ships missiles) whatsoever, so just 36op worth w/ the 2 relatively cheap Locusts. Regarding PD for the Legion XIV i have just gone mass Vulcan. I have a strong combination of armor (2415) and good flux efficiency despite limited investment w/the aid of Ordnance Expertise (5 caps for 14909 flux capacity, and 17 vents for 1059 venting. Shield is 200 upkeep and weapon flux is 1035/s). The fighters from both my legion xiv (using 2 broadsword, dagger, longbow) and my now Drover (2 Lux Heavy Fighter) and Heron (2 Thunder and Dagger) help deal with incoming missiles and fighters and frigates. Also have 2 officered and optimally built Omens that help out with that, as well as an optimal near invincible Officered Monitor. "Unless you have the elite PD skill on its captain," I sorta wish I went a build with Elite PD and then Defensive Targeting Array ). Uran92 showed it off for the LegionXIV in his Ship Tier List video from a couple months ago. "but is in the end irrelevant due to the flux cost of HVD's" 5 HVD's and I still have more flux dissipation than weapon flux/sec as i listed above, despite relatively low investment in caps and vents. My Executor right now is running at nearly a -1000 deficit despite having 54 caps for 26,200 capacity and max 55 vents for 1371 dissipation, but have a huge 2330 weapon flux/sec. So compared to that my Legion XIV has the least flux problems out of anything I field, AND it has a STRONG secondary defense of armor so overload is not a fear. Thanks for the suggestion of the Trident. Didn't even know it existed. Checking the wiki page on it it mentions that its strong on a carrier that is in the thick of the battle like Legion. I will definitely be looking to nab me 1 or 2 of those for my LegionXIV. Not sure why I have never found any of them yet, but will be on the lookout. "slot in Defensive Targeting Array. This will help boost your Xyphos but most crucially your bombers can no longer leave from your battleship orbit." Yeh I regret not doing that build with an officer with Elite PD, since it seems very strong when Uran92 showcased it. Already have 3 s-mods though (Armored Weapon Mounts, ECCM Package, Integrated Targeting Unit) and my officer built up with the 6 otherwise best skills ( Elite Helmsmanship, Elite Ballistic Mastery, Target Analysis, Impact Mitigation, Missile Specialization, Ordnance Expertise. Probably will Elite Impact Mitigation for another 50% maneuverability as my 3rd Elite skill once I have spare story points). "i like to have Drovers supporting with Broadswords to overpressure the enemy." Yeh i have an escort package Drover with 2 Lux instead. Not sure if they are better than broadswords despite being 2op more, but they have been doing well and no crew losses is a nice tiny bonus. "Overall, you will not need to boost the missile capacity of the XIV Legion when you use Locusts," Ive determined that a big part of the LegionXIV weapon loadout is the power of its 2 Large Missiles in conjunction with its 4 fighter bays, as opposed to just its 5 medium ballistic slots. So dedicating missile boosts to it makes alot of sense. Instead as I said its better to go the Locust route on another ship that doesnt care about its missiles as much/needs to invest its OP elsewhere, such as my Executor. I appreciate your comment though, definitely learned a lot eventhough its probably too late to change this Legion XIV and mine has been performing strongly. Will be on the lookout for the Tridents and will try them.

[@Aereto]

On a personal note, I main carriers and phase ships depending on the build. There is a notable AI decision making quirtk that causes both sides to be easily intimidated by fighters, and even Reckless officers would start to hesitate when there's more fighters nearby than allies. This makes carriers strategically viable when given the right orders. In that manner, flankers can be pressured to back off outside the carrier's fighter engagement range or have a specific and tactically significant target be marked with a fighter strike. Drovers are slightly slower than Herons, but they make for decent escort carriers, and high small missile mounts allow deployment of the League-style saturation strategy of laser missiles and fighters that are the bane of fast flanker groups. The B Deck fully replenishes wing build rate once per battle, so it can forgo Expanded Deck Crew that's better used on other ships anticipating a prolonged battle. Condors, Colossus Mk 3s, and Astrals are backline carriers where staying out of direct combat behind allies is important, and Astral specifically can leverage an all-bomber configuration to support the frontline that can screen for the carrier. Mora and Legion are great escort carriers, but Legion can hold on their own as a frontline carrier while Mora has much better survivability while accompanying a capital or anchoring the flankers so they don't get as easily pushed back with fighters and guilded missiles that go over them.

[@horatiomatthews4257]

Another note on the Colossus Mk 3: they also have ground support package and a longer peak operating time than the condor

[@BobfromSydney]

If you equip the 12 small slots with 12x mining lasers it makes for an entertaining light show and is both flux and OP efficient. You can stiffen the firepower with a pair of small mortars if you expect it to actually engage the enemy.

[@christopherschneider2968]

@@BobfromSydney Ah the Disco ball! I love to do that. My additon: The standard pirate set up with mining lasers instead of machine guns and an Integrated Targeting unit. Now 4x Mortars [840 range] and 2Autocannons [980 range] can repel early game flankers for your carriers the two talons help with fighter superiority.

[@julianbraunbeck7632]

3:42 it not only has more armor than an Astral, it has more armor that the Conquest

[@slickrounder6045]

Really useful video. In my first playthrough now, have been using an early Condor with 2 Thunder Interceptor and Expanded Deck Crew S-mod (as well as perhaps a whiffed Nav Relay S-Mod, and about to use 3rd S-Mod for Escort Package which is awesome for destroyers that escort a capital). Its medium missile is Salamander MRM Pod, because that has much better synergy w/ Fast Missile Racks than the charge based Pilum LRM Launcher. Now also added my first capital, a Legion XIV w/ 2 Broadsword and 1 Longbow and 1 Dagger (5 Hypervelocity Drivers with the 2 Large Missiles being Hurricane-Mirv, and then all Vulcans). Have ECCM Package built in as an s-mod, as well as Armored Weapon Mounts s-mod, w/ Integrated Targeting Unit, Expanded Missile Racks, and Heavy Armor not built in. May decide to build in Expanded Deck Crew as 3rd s-mod as shown in this video. Good to know the Astral should be avoided. What about the 2 Leadership skills that deal with Fighters? I currently only have 6 fighter bays, and probably wont even have much more than the 8 limit for its bonus, but it just rubs me thr wrong way that the 2 skills start losing efficacy after 8 fighter bays. Also it requiring an Officer in the carriers for full benefit turns me off (my Legion is Officered but my Condor isn't, and I'm already at 8 officer cap since I took Officer Training over Officer Management).

[@spicreb]

i normally either have 2-3 herons, 1 with bombers 2 with thunders/sparks or i have a bunch of moras which i use as battle carriers. giving a mora an aggressive or even reckless officer is hilarious, they're an absolute brick that refuses to die. as others have pointed out, the astral is there for its ability, which allows it to basically double the rate it delivers bombers at

[@paulrogersgaming]

What bombers do you like? I'm not having much luck with them

[@spicreb]

One or two khopeshes to overwhelm PD with annihilator bullet hell, one or two cobras, the reapers often manage to hit after everything else gets launched, two longbows, rest daggers or tridents; trident's low speed doesn't matter as much with an astral

[@karimsonsafehold9233]

@@paulrogersgaming bomber wings should be stacked on top of one ship. SO an astral with 5 bombers is NOT the same as 2 herrons with bombers. NOT the same. Controlling them with fleet commands is also necessary. Have the bombers protect a ship, and then move the ship in, like yours, when you feel the enemy is weak. I tend to just use a phase frigate entropy to disable enemies, making them easy kills for torpedoes.

[@DaraEhteshamzadeh]

Try a Legion bruiser build. Use 2 xyphos, and 2 sarrissa. Then put assault guns in the small slots, and heavy MG's in mediums. Then 2 Hammers in the missile slots. Then combo integrated targeting unit, PD mastery, and ballistic mastery to give all that dakka 1000 range. Finally manuvering thusters and skills to increase your turn radius. This ship shreds frigates, is immune to fighter and missile spam, and two hammers will burst down most cruisers. You can also solo stations for it. The only problem is it takes a lot of skill points, but it's my favorite build in the game.

[@karimsonsafehold9233]

years ago when I played starsector, I played with no combat skills whatsoever, and I tried flying legions. Hilarious painful.

[@Lyonatan]

Astral is basically a heavy siege artillery platform disguised as a carrier, the point of the whole thing is that u pack it full of bombers point at something and with the ability u are sending the next bombing run before the first one hits mark.

[@celem1000]

Its also worth noting that the standard Sector spawns several drifting XIVth Legions which make a quick flagship for a starting fleet if located. I've been able to find 3 in a single run before.

[@FunkThompson]

Everyone's "My first Battlecarrier," the Found In Space (Mostly) Dead XIV Legion. Latter runs, you're just like "Ugh, another one. Throw it on the pile."

[@Chris3s]

@@FunkThompson do you know if there is a mod or settings to change the ratios of ships that spawn?

[@FunkThompson]

@@Chris3s I know of some that add more, but not that add less. Possibly "Adjusted Sector" if you are good at editing the files?

[@BobfromSydney]

Depending on how early you get it, it can make you panic about having enough fuel (mothballed) or crew/supplies to bring it back. 😁

[@ham8426]

I did a high tech build before the latest update and I had two Astrals to cover my back line for heavy long range pressure while the Hyperions, tempests and scarabs did the skirmishing and me personally running an Odyssey with dual tach lance broadside for popping smaller ships and putting pressure on ships with terrible shield coverage.

[@paulrogersgaming]

I keep running into the issue where my Astrals need protection. Something to cover for them if they get pushed by cruisers/captials. But, investing in a well equipped frontline takes deployment points away from my skirmishing ships

[@FunkThompson]

@@paulrogersgaming Get stuff that can do both. Shrike, Aurora, more if modding. Sticking 100% to low or high tech or mid, kind of nerfs your options. I tend towards high tech, but Gryphon is just too good not to use. Or Monitors.

[@karimsonsafehold9233]

@@paulrogersgaming every AI ship needs max flux capacity. Otherwise they don't work well.

[@karimsonsafehold9233]

the reason is because AI decisions are based on their flux level percentage. They don't calculate whether their flux is enough to take on enemies or not. Just on if their flux is above 70% or not, whether to retreat or not. Thus low flux AI ships will almost always die or get caught.

[@Amaltraz]

You are covering a very good game again friend!

[@335chr]

Another point I think you forgot is to remember take into account carrier speed and fighter speed. Especially with the Heron as it is fast enough that it can have three or four squads of one of it fights out because they can't catch up to the carrier

[@scrubscruby4112]

I love the legion 14th battle group, made it my flagship brawler, used the hammar barage until i found a second dual reaper thypoon, no station stood a chance, or any capital ship for that matter.

[@Marines_Memelevolent]

This was massively helpful

[@Validechos]

Condor is my bread an butter for cheap carrier, though. For whatever reason, my condors are absolutely mad, charging in like a capital, get slapped around, limp out still alive with a clubbed frigate under its belt. Absolute mad lads

[@Propietario283]

While ship overview is decent, I don't like how you skipped like half the fighters as pretty much every one of them has *some* unique utility.

[@chainsawplayin]

Yeah, he didn't cover most of the bombers (omitting Piranha especially hurts), also didn't cover Thunders but ended up using them anyway.

[@paulrogersgaming]

I see what you mean. Time/editing constraints are the main reason for skipping past each fighter type. But I will say though, after hours of bomber testing, they have performed horribly so I wasn't going to invest more time into them.

[@paulrogersgaming]

I did end up liking the thunders after testing more. I think they are a good counterpart for the warthogs since faster ships can't escape thunders.

[@karimsonsafehold9233]

​@@paulrogersgaming that is really a function of how you like to use multiple drovers and herrons. Multiple carriers do not equal one carrier with more bays. Due to how bombers use alpha strikes.

[@lmelior]

I don't use fighters that much, but I love to fly an Afflictor, and Thunders are the bane of that playstyle. Yes, Xyphos are annoying and can be tough to get around, but Thunders will chase me across the battlefield and keep me away from my job of sniping enemy capitals. They're so fast and have such huge range that I can't often unphase because they'll catch up almost immediately and take out my engines with their Ion Cannons. Probably a niche case but in my mind I can't help but rank Thunders pretty highly because of it. I'm tempted to try Thunder spam run!

[@paulrogersgaming]

I need to try Thunders more for some of that sweet sweet EMP damage too. I love being able to overwhelm smaller ships that way.

[@louiskeep1832]

My favourite carrier is the Odyssey with either Tridents or Xyphos. You then have the speed, firepower and support to react or run from any situation.

[@karimsonsafehold9233]

the astral's system is what people are paying for, which multiplies the fighter bays. With 3 sabot srm wings, the system almost doubles their effectiveness because it cuts down on their return flight time. This tends to guarantee flux deficiencies on the enemy side, pushing them back and opening up gaps in their front line. Without high flux, their ships cannot push as aggressively, which also can save some slower ships from being focus fired.

[@karimsonsafehold9233]

Of course, paying for TWO large missile mounts are very effective flux advantage as well. Once the astral loses all its fighters, cannot replenish, it still has its shields, hull, armor, and beam weapons. So while spamming drovers is nice vs enemy frigates and destroyers, to clear out the trash escorts. The astral provides an interesting tactical choice to take down the true enemy capital front line ships. 1 astral + an SO aurora or 1 astral + 1 odyssey or 1 astral + an SO hammerhead, can annihilate several enemy capitals, if the escorts had been annihilated first. This sets up a nice ambush scenario at your spawn line as well, luring in enemy capitals to the point where they cannot escape your reinforcements, and their reinforcements are dead and also like 50s away.

[@tbopetc4390]

You forgot about Trident Bomber. Basically, it's Dagger, but one more torpedo, slower, but tougher

[@theworkshopwhisperer.5902]

You haven't lived until you've stuffed a giant horde of 96 very angry peasant infantry mechs into a 16 bay dominion class super heavy carrier. They eat everything in their way you see an onslaught it gets eaten, you see a paragon it gets eaten. I have unleashed an untold evil on the sector. Got to love completely balanced mods being taken to their extremes.

[@featherlilly07]

You have a very eloquent way of speaking and make very good points on your rationale on fleet effectiveness and economic thinking. Definitely very concise and helpful for people of any experience level.

[@VortexMagus]

I will say that if you are fighting a few big, very slow ships, the astral with a full loadout of pirahna bombers will utterly annihilate them. The piranhas will send their first payload, then the astral recalls them and they send a second payload very quickly before the ship in question can recover. Also keep in mind that the huge payload of bombs will saturate most point defense systems so the astral can slip in reapers or some other big impactful missile behind the bomb payloads. It can 1v1 pretty much any capital in the game without taking damage. Its also incredible for annihilating space stations in an efficient manner. Outside of that specific niche, I agree that in most cases two herons are better. Most AI fleets have a lot of little fast frigates and destroyers poking at you and the astral does not excel at dealing with that sort of pressure, requiring some babysitting and its big power spike (double bomber waves in quick succession) are not nearly as effective against the little guys. But if you have one big slow target, the astral is capable of huge alpha strike potential and I don't think any other carrier comes close.

[@chainsawplayin]

Mora with 2 reapers,3 Piranha bombers and a reckless pilot is an absolutely crazy ship.

[@paulrogersgaming]

I'll have to try this!

[@mythicMusical]

Oh look my favorite niche game on a YT profile ive never seen before.

[@paulrogersgaming]

Welcome to the channel comrade!

[@ThortheGodly]

I have cut out carriers entirely in favor of frigates as frigates perform far better than fighters with the most recent update. Out of all the carriers I have had though I prefer the Heron class because it is one of the only carriers that has enough firepower and speed to keep pace with the rest of my fleet. I have a habit of starting over before getting into late game so I haven't really used anything bigger than the Heron for carriers. I finally have a run going where I'm hitting the point of using the Onslaught and Conquest class cruisers, but my experience so far in the update post-nerf to fighters is that frigates are way better for screening, flanking, and for running down enemy ships. I prefer the Wolf and Medusa classes for their phase skip ability, with an omen class mixed in exclusively for capturing control points.

[@gas132]

I like to use my self-piloted Legion XIV on the frontline, actually fill my fighter slots with Xyphos put Cyclone Reapers on my large missile slots and fill my medium ballistics hyper velocity drivers that way, I get to pressure enemy shields on my approach while also not getting torn apart by missiles and fighters once I'm in range, I burn into close range and blast enemy capitals and cruisers with reapers I call it the battering ram, and i love the absurdity of it shame it doesn't work against [very redacted] does work on regular [redacted] fleets tho

[@TheyCalledMeT]

12:30 important detail, not being on the regroup modus prevents you from utilizing the 0-flux bonus

[@chromacorvus9651]

Usually the Condor and Heron carry me in the game in terms of utility and frigate pick-strength, also good operating time as well

[@jigsaw1398]

Very informative video.

[@paulrogersgaming]

Thank you jigsaw!

[@ВенцлавТальмберг]

I use astral with 3 tridents, 2 daggers and 1 broadsword and boooy it rocks. I start with double salvo of mlsr to overload PD of enemy craft and then after send in bombers in two rapid bombing runs using recall ability. It usually end in instant demise for any cruiser and in full flux capacity for capital ships(quite often overload)

[@hideshisface1886]

Legion is a battlecarrier - it should be on the frontline. Keeping it at the back is a waste of its armour and deployment cost - especially that it does not have a good ability to win flux duel with other ships - you ideally want to burst down your opponent. There is a hilarious, if a bit counter intuitive way to use it. Slap a Defensive Targeting Array onto it and fill it to the brim with Dagger Bombers. Now, you may think this is insane, because Targeting Array won't benefit bomber's missiles. BUT hear me out. It tethers the bombers to the carrier - they never leave your own PD's defensive bubble, and therefore they have a very short trip back. If you slap mid-range weapons onto your Legion and force it to close distance with the enemies, you will have a persistent wall of never-ending Atropos torpedoes. Legion has enough hull and armour to tank, and bombers act as your primary DPS, also mitigating Legion's flux issues.

[@zephyrm.6564]

This... is a great idea honestly. Especially with Burn Drive, you would have your Legion smashing those quick refit missiles into the enemy frontline like an indestructible su!c!de bomber. Just endless point blank missiles spam that cant be shot down by point defense before at least hitting the shield. An burn drive wacks anything smaller than a capital into a death spin, allowing the Atropos missiles access to the unprotected engines of any ship with front facing shields.

[@ESALTEREGO]

​@@zephyrm.6564is suicide a banned word or smth Wtf

[@fan_of_fans]

I personally like going the AI swar route, I use remnant frigants and fighters to overwhel the enemy with an astral with some destroyer human piloted suport to protect the astrals. I can handle mostly everything in the game, with star fortresses being the toughest challengue.

[@karimsonsafehold9233]

paragons are designed for star fortress spams.

[@thevolner]

squall missile pod is like a cheat code 100% the best

[@karimsonsafehold9233]

it answers 90% of questions in battle.

[@ranekeisenkralle8265]

In terms of carriers I do like the Legion. The XIV in particular. Slap a squall and a hydra onit along with anti shield ballistics and PD galore and you have one tough brick for the enemyto chew on. These are often the second toughest ships in my fleet after a paragon.

[@ranekeisenkralle8265]

Beyond the Legion I also keep a sizable number of Colossus Mk.3 around. With two broadsword wings and not much else. These are both backup carriers and transport in one.and whenI need to do ground ops I bring all of them to really crush the opposition thanks to their ground support package.

[@hidefreek6905]

Depends on the playstyle. Both variants of Legion have their own advantage and disadvantages. (Through 14th variant is much better) If the player wants full draka. The large ballistic option is better with the shield shunt.

[@paulrogersgaming]

A big issue I've run into with Heavy Armor is long range energy weapons. Gravitons definitely perform poorly but tachyon lances and ion beams can hurt real bad. The legion would want something in front for those situations. Definitely justifies running Squalls and Hyper velocity drivers though to keep the enemy's flux up so they can't poke away at the armor. Edit: Also, to add on to this, I do love Heavy Armor, just have to adapt to its strengths/weaknesses.

[@Aereto]

High Intensity Lasers are often the counter of shield shunt builds.

[@hidefreek6905]

Indeed. Beam with explosive damage is dangerous. But it can migrate with Solar Shielding. Through I build Shield shunt Legion for full draka and fast bomber build. *If play mod... It has a lot of Hullmods that can give more migrate to energy damage... Some even reduce explosive damage"

[@istvansipos9940]

such a gamble. My Longbows tend to hit ships with no shields, my daggers tend to bomb shields. For example. They just don't care to pick targets. And whatever I pick, there is no guarantee the shield up/down situation does not change during the flight of my small crafts. annoying, frustrating. About as much as 78 Squal missiles launched at a speedy (not hit) Kite. Or the 2 maps. But I digress. At least, Longbows do EMP damage, no matter what.

[@karimsonsafehold9233]

there is a half way solution to this. control the engagement yourself by flying a phase entropy frigate, then overload on demand. Or a harbinger/doom. The other half solution is to mix sabot srm with torpedoes in the bomber wings. The sabots will often freak the AI out into raising their shields, causing an overload. Then the point defenses shut down and the reapers go in. Or you are there with a reaper yourself and 3 antimatter blasters.

[@YuiFunami]

personally I like to spam Scintillas as they have pretty low CR and are the best carrier option for a drone ship spam fleet

[@darby2314]

I had forgotten I owned this game until I saw your video. It was on desktop when I transfered PCs and I guess I forgot to transfer the installer.

[@chasewilliams5628]

Can you make a video explaining the difference between all the types of ships. Not each individual but more of what is a Frigate what is a Capital etc.

[@Endgunner]

YES! KENSHI N SPACE! WOOOO!

[@YukitoOnline]

Anon: "Why do you like Carriers?" Me: **Protoss Carrier spam from Starcraft 1**

[@hueban1643]

the astral is clearly the best because it looks cool as fuck

[@paulrogersgaming]

It does look cool. I'll give it that

[@bastien9613]

Hey nice video man , it would be very nice of you to make a video about wanzer of the diable avionics mod , they are relatively unique and deserve a spotlight on KZbin and if done by you quality will be there so maybe sink about it .

[@momom6197]

Moras are born to be used with the d-mod perk! Spam those rickety bricks of talon-spamming metal hunks!

[@Hunterchuck]

I have always thought the pirate fleets have the best carrier fleets due to the sheer number of fighters they bring. It's intimidating to engage them and see all of those fighters lol

[@paulrogersgaming]

When have like 6 Colossus MKIII and Eradicators/Atlas MKII charging at you, it's intimidating for sure. Missile/fighter spam everywhere

[@BobMcBobJr]

They have a huge alpha wave of fighters but the colossus has a malus to replenishment time making them seem more intimidating than they are. Perfect for pirates.

[@henryhamilton4087]

Reminder that the Collosus mk3's fighters have the converted hangar mod which makes its fighters weaker, so the Mk3 is a bad carrier choice going to the mid game unless spammed en masse and with recovery shuttles to offset crew losses. Better to transition the Mk3s into logi ships with mil subsystems, expanded holds, and/or surveying equipment

[@kwdblade4683]

*Screams in Shepherd Enjoyer*

[@paulrogersgaming]

I imagine you'll be a big fan of the Exploration guide that I'm working on. Rule #1 ACQUIRE SHEPHERDS

[@JswahSwitch]

Zyphos on a Legion is some of the scariest shit I've ever deployed.

[@dangerboss99]

I love the Arma armatura mod that let's you pilot fighters and mechs my fleets are 70% carriers

[@joheng01]

You are wrong. There is ONE carrier. Get the "derlict operations" + 5 (bearable) D-mods on a buffalo MK2 destroyer with converted hangar. 3 deployment cost per fighter. 3 small missile, 1 medium missile. 0.58 maintainance cost per ship. 70 ornance points.

[@LightTim]

Fuel cost is the only downside, otherwise yah it's a good deal.

[@joheng01]

@@LightTim yeah, fuel is cheap and abundant, so i dont count it as a factor outside exploration missions. The only real downside is your 30 ship limit and their tendency to explode without proper frontline. Its economy class fighters.

[@LightTim]

@@joheng01 Fuel is abundant in the mid-late game. 2 fuel base, About 1.6 fuel+ with eff (if you don't get the erratic dmod which it LOVES to get it seems.) That means you're getting a jumbo tanker for about 5-10 of them. And those jumbo tankers aren't cheap. I'm not saying your combo isn't great. I'm just saying it takes a bit to get. That being said, I would love to test it on bounty runs. A fleet of them would attract targets like flies, while squashing them. Think it can slap stations?

[@paulrogersgaming]

I need to do a derelict operations playthrough and spam Astrals that have max dmods. Maybe THEN it would feel worth the cost

[@LightTim]

@@paulrogersgaming or just have reinforced bulkheads and blast doors and just keep letting it get blow up. Either way works really. There's a playstyle for pure hulls or broken ones for each side of the industry skill.

[@Awesomewithaz]

I'm the kind of player who likes my boys to swarm. Seeing a bunch of little guys overwhelm shit is my fav

[@spicreb]

are you planning on ever going over mods? i feel like certain mods (diable avionics, ship/weapon pack etc) are basically vanilla+ and most people run them after doing a vanilla playthrough or two.

[@Propietario283]

Mods are a bit divisive topic, every player has different likes and dislikes about them.

[@paulrogersgaming]

I've started to realize that I prefer not to use mods. I'm enjoying the vanilla game so much as is. Maybe in the future I'll add the Nex mod though

[@hypersummoner9504]

As someone who mostly uses autofit, I really need to pick myself up and learn all the weapons in the game someday...

[@FunkThompson]

You don't need to learn "all the weapons." Once you know how to read the stats, what is generally good or bad, you can just play with the ones that pass muster. Which is mostly flux per second vs. damage, vs. the flux capacity of the ship you mount it on. Plasma Cannons are S-Tier, but some ships just plain won't have enough capacitor to fire them, ever.

[@paulrogersgaming]

To riff off of Funk's comment, so much of it comes down to flux management. A ship with healthy flux is much better off than a ship armed to the teeth without the flux to keep shields up. Edit: So, especially with smaller ships using efficient/cheap weapons makes sense unless there's a good reason to upgrade. For instance, some ships with large ballistic mounts are better off with medium weapons on those slots since 1 large weapon messes up their flux ratio. Also, point defense weapons are generally super flux efficient and that's why vulcans are commonly used on free ballistic slots.

[@BobMcBobJr]

@@paulrogersgaming Unless you want to make a shieldless brick of guns which is hilarious.

[@TheArtistKnownAsNooblet]

Don't list'n ta deze gitz. Ya just needz more dakka.

[@335chr]

I actually like thunders on a legion to deal with frigates

[@paulrogersgaming]

Totally, my opinion of thunders has improved significantly since making this video.

[@billthegreet1]

I remember when spark spam was overpowered, have they been nerfed so hard that they're not worth a mention in the fighter section?

[@paulrogersgaming]

I left them out because they're redacted. Personally, I think they're "ok". The flash bombers are good fun though

[@celem1000]

Are you seriously in the process of pivoting between two of the games ive played most in the last decade? xD Here for starsector content buddy!

[@paulrogersgaming]

Indeed! We will be doing some pivoting this summer

[@egoalter1276]

Daggers used to have reapers, and kopesh was still the better attack bomber.

[@georgemurdock7670]

Okay and where is the best base location in space?

[@paulrogersgaming]

We'll get to colony settlement eventually 😏

[@georgemurdock7670]

@@paulrogersgaming as long as there aint no space beak things im ready to settle

[@erikriverajr559]

Fucking great video, not enough good starsector content on here.

[@paulrogersgaming]

Thanks for your support! I've been absolutely loving this gem of a game.

[@erikriverajr559]

If you end up making more guides for starsec, would you go crazy go stupid like you did on the kenshi region guides? (kenshi guides GOATED)

[@europajupiter3007]

I highly disagree with one of your statement about Legion not being valid for carrier spam. It is absolutely valid if you treat it as your front line (normal version - btw, I am in minority that considers XIV variant to be weaker one). It is absolutely amazing ship for that role in carrier spam fleet. That being said, I think your guide is really nice and should be helpful for new players. Also, Astral sucks if you ask me :) I just cannot force myself to use it. It used to be my personal favorite loooooooooong time ago. Now to answer your question at the end of video... My personal favorite carrier is Mora and Legion (and Odyssey - if we count it as carrier, which I do) to pilot. For AI I like Heron and Mora. I stay away (means, I change them out at first occasion I get) from carriers that cannot take a solid fight by themselves, hence such choices.

[@paulrogersgaming]

While I did emphasize fighter bay count per deployment point, to your point, that is not the whole story. Armor helps ALOT with survivability, and it's a big reason why I like the legion. Also, those large missiles on the XIVth version 😌

[@Aereto]

I consider normal Legions as front ships, while XIV Legions are pressure flankers because their missile slots are for burst fluxless damage to cut down the flank with similar roles. Having Sarissas and a Xyphos will present the Legion to apply pressure to the enemy line just by moving forward and freeing up kinetic and PD for other weapon types. The XIV Legion requires more thought into the bays between focus on bursts and supporting the flankers, as guided missiles and fighters fly over allied ships and apply a greater concentrated pressure than 2 capitals side by side if the target's PD is lacking.

[@TheArtistKnownAsNooblet]

I noticed you didn't include the remnant ships. Are they not available vanilla? Because their mine bomber is pretty good.

[@paulrogersgaming]

Can you help me out with this? Do I need a spoiler warning for talking about remnant ships? Seems like people sensor their information on the wiki/reddit

[@TheArtistKnownAsNooblet]

@@paulrogersgaming SPOILER WARNING FOR ANYONE NEW READING THIS. The thing I usually see people avoid is explicitly mentioning the omega ships as they're a nice little jump scare the first time you see them. I think the remnant are fine though. They're pretty explicitly mentioned in one of the perks in the last tier of the technology tree, the one you need to use their ships. And they aren't exactly uncommon outside of the core sector. Most importantly though I just think a guide like this is incomplete without them as they are options available to you and they can have some interesting considerations for their ships. Probably most important for this video is that all their small craft are drones so you don't lose any crew when they die. And it's been a while since I've tried this so you'd have to confirm but I'm like 80% sure you can equip their LPC's in normal ship hangers. So even without the perk you can get some early use out of their small craft.

[@BobMcBobJr]

@@TheArtistKnownAsNooblet Yes you can use remnant fighters in all ships. They have a great alternative to the wasp. I haven't really messed with the minelayer.

[@FunkThompson]

And then you add mods and... robot LPC's. Wanzers, Cataphracts, "totally not Robotech Veritech Fighters", whatever they want to call them - Glorious.

[@Aereto]

And then we have Battlestar and Supercarrier ships in other modpacks. The crew costs will be significant but at least it's not the ship.

[@GingahJ]

Anime girl faction made me fall in love with carriers, No matter the faction modded or none modded I always go carrier for my Capital lol

[@FunkThompson]

Diable. At least the Wanzers are mostly balanced... :D

[@owa1985]

Having double high tier wanzers on the panda is pretty damned OP. I suppose you can argue that at that sort of tech level, I should be rolling over things anyway.

[@FunkThompson]

@@owa1985 The Pandemonium is not really OP though; it is "better than vanilla" in ways (mostly the wanzers.) At least compared to like MVS or UAF.

[@owa1985]

Yeah, not at 70dp, it's not. I am currently leaning super hard on a salvaged one in a legio infernalis playthrough. It being piloted by a reckless captain might have something to do with how unOP it's feeling. Even then... It sometimes fails against your bog average Paragon, for shame.

[@FunkThompson]

@@owa1985 Yeah, needs Cautious and range, really. Or steady and as much ROF as you can get on it. If running with VIC, try some VIC ballistics on it, or MVS. Glorious.

[@StiveGuy]

The Onslaught is my favorite ship to pilot personally. Not really a fan of carriers.

[@austinlipnicki7761]

Allways struggled with carriers.

[@MrFevill]

what skills should an officer take on as a carrier?

[@therealbahamut]

IMHO: skip the colossus mk3. It's not a carrier; it's a cargo ship with lots of PD and a regular buffalo has the same cargo space with a much better logistical profile. Every time I see one in a battle I think "free lunch." I'm honestly surprised you didn't make more mention of the Astral's ship system: recall. Instantly recalling all your fighters to rearm and repair them makes them premium bomber spammers and is the main way to justify the Astral's deployment cost. Take note also that pilums now come in a large version for those large missile mounts so it can apply considerable pressure from extreme range. You CAN use its weapon mounts for beams and such but I'd personally use its ordnance points on chunkier bombers, like tridents or cobras. I'm not a fan of letting my carriers go near the front lines because that's not what they're for; keeping only support missiles and PD weapons will encourage the AI to keep them out of the fray and let their bays do the talking. I would also make note that while an astral IS more expensive per fighter bay than a couple of drovers, it's only one ship, requiring only one officer to maximize its effectiveness and taking only one slot in your fleet count. It can also be easily modded to have 360 degree shields and take quite a bit of punishment, whereas if one of those drovers gets hit, it's going down fast and talking half your fighter count with it.

[@Angelboss60]

If you use the LARGE Ballistic to mount "Medium" weapons, shouldn't the XIV better?... 2 large Pillum instead of 3 medium Pillum and still got the place for the medium ballistics in the front with more flux and all...

[@nukekilla432]

Good....

[@Salted_Fysh]

This video was a bit rough compared to your usual. There's a bunch of meandering sections that don't really have the proper pacing and sometimes with the simulation demonstrations you sound unsure of what you're saying, as if you don't really know the answer yourself. As for more technical problems: Colossus, Drover and Astral are missing their extended unit cards so it's hard to follow along with what you're saying when you're talking about their loadout. You don't cover Thunders during the fighter section at all yet in the very next segment, you have them on your Heron load-out. It's been a while since I've played this game but I'm pretty sure you're also missing quite a few other small craft. For the fleet composition segment, you start talking about having multiple options but you end up only covering carrier spam before veering off into the Astral rant. You're also missing a lot of information on what the advantages and disadvantages of this composition would be. Don't let me discourage you from branching out, the beginning is always going to be rough, these are just notes for if you want to pinpoint issues.

[@WalrusJones185]

With the astral its teleporter with pure bomber loadouts absolutely can pancake several enemy ships per bombing run, and spam bombing runs. They key is a single fighter on it breaks its AI, it needs only bombers, but say, a bunch of flash bombers with a few daggers mixed in can quite literally clear a column of space of all enemy ships 3x in 30 seconds (And render phase craft completely pointless,) since the fast cooldowns officer can force spam the ability to cause bombers to instantly reload repeatedly for four times as much explosive damage as a ship can survive. (6x4x6x500-> 72000 explosive damage every time you send out a wave of spam flashes.) Do hurricanes and squalls increase its lethality? Absolutely. Especially if your officer has both the systems skill and the missiles skill. Do you need to get value out of them? With how the good classes of bomber go from barely usable to utterly broken, the ability to repeatedly force reload those four classes of serviceable bomber just bricks enemy fleets. (Haha swarm of atropos and mines goes brrr.)

[@MisterG_Gaming]

No Tridents love 😞

[@paulrogersgaming]

What's your ratio for bombers:fighters? How do you like to use the tridents?

[@paulrogersgaming]

What's your ratio for bombers:fighters? How do you like to use the tridents?

[@MisterG_Gaming]

@@paulrogersgaming I did a build in patch 0.95 with 2 Astrals and 12 Tridents (build on my KZbin channel). Pretty insane damage output but you need ships doing your frontlines and make Astrals going close range to continue your bombardement during cooldown.

[@lukmaanpratomo6866]

Haaaa he called them Chonkers 😂.

[@spacesui-t]

Yeah it's sad but if not piloted by payer and build in a very specific way Astral usually underperforms. In AI fleets especially it never poses any real danger.

[@paulrogersgaming]

Idk maybe I'm doing something wrong, but the AI seems to pilot Moras and Astrals poorly. It's as if it doesn't account for the slow speed and puts these ships into positions they can't get out of.

[@spacesui-t]

@@paulrogersgaming I also noticed that AI is generally better with medium/fast ships.

[@stalwartteakettlepotato9879]

You made an all fighter astral, a ship purpose built for bomber spam, and somehow concluded that its weapons are an important part of its load out? How did you miss the point this much.

[@paulrogersgaming]

It's got a fair amount of firepower in those slots, especially the large missiles. Bomber spam is more of a novelty though when fighting higher difficulty enemies. Point defense takes out the bombers leaving you with a floating brick that costs an obscene amount of deployment points.

[@Impericalevidence]

Yeah man nah... Astral with six daggers and a systems expertise officer... try it out, either daggers or flashes. Astral is the killer queen.

[@nonyabisness6306]

how to carrier: don't.