How To Swap Out an Electronic Safe Lock for a Mechanical Safe Lock

Combination changing guide video by Sargent & Greenleaf...
• Sargent and Greenleaf ...
As mentioned in my PancakesCon presentation...
• "Getting the Right Rot...
... some folk may wish that their safe didn't have an electronic lock and instead was equipped with a conventional mechanical lock instead. If you are someone like that, this video is for you!
This is footage that we shot at my new friend Derek's place where we did this kind of removal and installation. I'm putting it up on the internet for you in case you might have a desire to make such a swap on your own safe. Enjoy! 👍😁👍
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[@berzerkskwid]

I got my newest safe on Friday and haven't put anything in it yet because I was going to hire a safe technician to come and swap in a mechanical lock. The delivery guy said "save some money and watch a youtube tutorial." and then I open my subscriptions this morning to see this. This video couldn't have been better timed for me.

[@AuthenticUnicorn]

Perfect timing!! ❤

[@BandEAtoZ]

Basic rule: do all your work with the door blocked open. I have a dozen or so calls to jobs where they were working on their own safe and the door got closed at the worst time. Test it at least 3 times when complete with the door open before you close it for the final test...

[@helidude3502]

Your “smartphone” is listening to you 😲

[@rickstreifel4691]

Some comments from a guy with 40 years experience in this field. Never hit the wheel pack with a hammer. It is all soft metals, like brass. It can flare or bend very easily and then you are buying new parts. Never use a cordless drill as a screw driver. You are going to cross thread something (like D did when he put the dial ring on) and then the holes are screwed. Lastly, the spline key should be installed with the flag pointing towards the centre. Most times it won't matter, but occasionally it will when the flag rubs on the inside of the lock cover.

[@JessicaFEREM]

Heres a tip, twist the screw backwards by hand until it clicks, and do a turn or two by hand. Guaranteed to never strip out a thread.

[@Bbonno]

I like to use a Yankee screwdriver with modern bits for small installation jobs around the house. Maybe that would be useful here too😎

[@RossReedstrom]

@@JessicaFEREM Extra true when screwing into soft materials: whenever I take apart plastic cases of small devices, I get a lot more re-assemblies when I do this, make sure the screw threads hit the same threads in the plastic.

[@robertboudrie2234]

Quoting from the S&G provided instruction sheet with the 6730 I bought from MBUSA - "Make sure the flag of the spline is facing away from the center of the spindle", and this is confirmed by a photo of an installed spline key. I use cordless drill on bolts with a lot of engaged threads , but only AFTER manually starting a few threads to make sure it is not cross threaded, and then STOP before the screw bottoms out and finish up by hand. The screws on a lock install rarely if ever have enough thread engagement for this to be a big timesaver.

[@GrantCulham]

Thanks for showing us that even someone who knows what they're doing cuts on the wrong side of the line sometimes...

[@jameskelly1680]

Tremendous video. I did not know that they use a standard bolt pattern. Interesting. Thank you so much for showing your difficulties and the steps you took to troubleshoot and fix.

[@robertboudrie2234]

The difference is the mechanicals tend to have 4 mounting holes on the lock case, and electronics only 3. I swapped a Lagard Basic because I felt I was pushing my luck after it was on the safe for 27 years with a 6730, and Gardall had already drilled and tapped the 4th hole for the mechanical lock.

[@Allocated_Brain]

Props for the graceful and careful way you put the old bulb down

[@DeviantOllam]

😂 you're also a fan and follower of Alec, I see ☺️

[@Allocated_Brain]

​@@DeviantOllamince his 2017 furnace video.

[@SaintBrick]

It's zero dark thirty here but wanted to drop in and show some love. Give the video some juice. Love your work.

[@johnncoh]

It was very well presented. The troubleshooting of the wheels was interesting. It seems I recall those wheels were numbered, with some government models using plastic to protect them from radiological attacks.

[@vinniemoscaritolo3318]

Well done Dev, I guess there were some lessons learned there about mechanical skills, yes, always over cut the shaft and then clean it up when you’re done. And yes, since you had a drum tool, I would have done a minor crown on the shaft to prevent buggering the threads. I would’ve also considered maybe green Loctite on the screw threads. But impressed how you corrected the tension on the rings. Again, well done.

[@v3ctors69]

Thanks for just being an awesome human. Interesting process. Eventually I'll get a safe. Although I'm going to be a hipster and put an x09 or something on it. Cheers.

[@Coderjo.]

After a previous video, I picked up an S&G 6120 off EBay to RE, but then ADHD'd off elsewhere while trying to ID one of the chips and it has been sitting on my desk collecting dust since September.

[@punksci6879]

Thanks for putting out an informative video today.

[@Derkiboi]

This was fun to be part of it ^-^

[@JMSobie]

Years ago I picked up an old LaGard 2R lock to mess with. Being X-ray proof the wheels were Delrin and the combination....wandered every time. I figured it was because they just weren't keeping a good grip anymore, probably why that lock was removed. But hey for $20 I had an interesting paperweight!

[@HankScorpio64]

I'm kind of hoping someone makes firmware for the vulnerable locks. While I think this method is best I think having the alternative firmware of the other one changed so it removes all known backdoors is a good idea too. Logic would state then only way is destructive opening. Cause that thing has to use jellybean off the shelf parts. No way a company is gonna have custom spun chips. They aren't apple.

[@YouTube_username.]

Looking forward to the tear down. Its one PCBway order away from a new circuit board, looks easy from my armchair here.

[@HankScorpio64]

@@KZbin_username. That would be a good idea too but also remember more than likely this already has a jtag provision on the board already. Why reinvent the wheel? Especially if you know what the microcontroller is and how to get a backup of whats flashed on it then reflash with new firmware. It wouldn't be too hard to code I would not think.

[@YouTube_username.]

@@HankScorpio64 yes im all about that, new board as a plan b. Was imagining it potted and locked down and so on

[@kidblunder8687]

Just followed this tutorial to replace my dads new safe after a recent break-in!! As a side note, where can i find reputable pintumbler pins and other pinning tools?

[@BeeWhere]

Definitely interested in a mechanical swap, when I reached out to my safe manufacturer they told me it was not as simple because my electronic lock has a backup key under the dial. I assume that woukd just be covered up but I haven't taken things apart yet

[@BandEAtoZ]

Sadly the solenoid locks do bite and are just not set up with the footprint needed for proper, modern locks. While it can be done in a few cases, usually the metal just isn't there to attach the new lock to. And if added via welding, the paint on the door will peel up.

[@StirlingQShagnasty]

Reminds me of the time I spent months trying to get my Datsun 2000 to time right. I went through EVERY system and still it would top out at an RPM that was much too low. Finally, out of desperation, I pulled the distributor...and found that the grease in the mechanical advance had frozen. After figuring it out, it was an easy fix.

[@lenbones7940]

once again youtube eases the bewilderment of a simple mechanical DIY project that most would be gun shy to attempt or worse just go for the gusto and never knowing there a rule of 3 and accidentally turns a Sunday afternoon tinker session Into the start of a "how can I brute force my cellphone outta my locked safe mission " lol

[@dameanvil]

00:15 🛡 Concerns about manufacturer backdoors in electronic safe locks have led to increased interest in mechanical safe locks. 01:10 🔒 Sergeant and Greenleaf's policy shift regarding safe combinations and back doors followed inquiries from Senator Wyden's office. 02:21 🔄 Interest is growing in replacing electronic safe locks with mechanical ones due to improved security and control. 03:17 🛠 Swapping out an electronic safe lock for a mechanical one is feasible and relatively straightforward. 06:57 📌 Understanding the components and installation process of mechanical safe locks is essential for successful replacement. 09:52 🗝 Mechanical safe locks offer additional security features such as a change key to prevent unauthorized access. 16:47 🚪 Knowledge of safe servicing can be crucial, as issues like seized lubricant may arise during lock replacement. 18:36 💰 Group 2 mechanical safe locks are affordable and accessible, making them a viable option for security upgrades.

[@maniakaz]

While Sargent and Greenleaf may not have a back door code to their mechanical locks it doesn't mean the safe manufacture doesn't know your combination. When I was having lock problems on my Gardall Safe (it had an S&G lock)I called Gardall for some help. They were able to verify that the combination I was trying was the correct combination for my safe (based on s/n) as it left the factory. Of course, now that I have a new lock in there I am also running a different combination. edit: I forgot to say that the issue with my lock was the key lock for the dial. It had frozen so my new dial/lock doesn't have that.

[@AileTheAlien]

😆My previous safe was an inexpensive one from Costco a long time ago. It had all kinds of extra mechanisms to make extra safe, but then it's harder to get in when it fails. (A cylinder key to lock the handle, a digital pad that needs batteries, and mixed layers of plastic, metal and gypsum in the door.) The locksmith I got to my house couldn't open it, so I figured I'd get in myself to save the hassle and cost of finding a more expensive locksmith. I just shut the windows and doors so the neighbors wouldn't hear, and spent about four hours on it with an angle-grinder during daylight. The actual problem was that the handle and other mechanism was put together without Loctite, and the tiny nut/bolt had finally come loose. 🔩 (And of course, it wasn't designed to be serviceable.🔧🙄)

[@DeeSnow97]

why the f@#k can't you change the combination on a safe you buy?

[@maniakaz]

@@DeeSnow97 My safe came with a S&G mechanical lock from the factory. There is nothing stopping me from changing the combination other than having that tool and knowledge. My point was that even though S&G says they don't program in back door or know the combination of your lock the safe manufacturer may know what it was when they sent it out. It's up to you to have it changed or change it yourself (just like when you buy/install a new lock).

[@Subgunman]

Well as far as I know one manufacturer HAS a "PARK" code for one of their "high security" electronic keypad access. I bought the lock used and called the manufactures tech support. After explaining my scenario, he asked me for the serial number on the e board. After confirming the number he sent me the .pdf on programming the lock which also has a manufactures master code for parking the lock. Second phase after parking the electronic was to pick open the Best cylinder at the change key shear line, done in ten minutes with conventional tools. All the police need to do is supply the manufacture with a serial number by a Warrant in person and they have the master code for a series of e locks. Most often they pass these codes to other LE agencies which is a violation to the manufacturers terms of data release. The issue is how do they get the serial number when it’s sealed inside the safe? Well they don’t , they just need to give the model number of the lock. Most often manufacturer has a photo ID .pdf they send to the LE agency to pick the lock from an image. Now the real fun occurs when the manufacturer informs them that the lock is "too old" and data no longer available. Hey how about a video of thanking apart, cleaning and lubing a S &G combo lock? That would be interesting! Carb cleaner to knock out old lube? Teflon lube to relube?

[@fimeilleur]

Hey Dev... do you have an opinion on the S&G 8550 combination lock? I've only been able to crack two open with a semi-destructive attack, and once, I was able to rely on human laziness to "guess" a combination open... otherwise... It's one of my favourite locks for security, least favourite for lock-outs.

[@eodpunk]

I hope this is the best April fools day joke ever. Somehow if you follow these instructions it would lock you out of your own safe. 4D Chess!

[@Derkiboi]

It'd be funny if my safe stopped working today But nope, it's real

[@PaulSteMarie]

I am loving the John Brown sticker on the safe. The actual content is up to its usual standard, but that sticker really caught my eye.

[@Derkiboi]

It was one of the first I slapped to that box!

[@thedownwardmachine]

Do they make a Simplex lock in this format? That would be great for getting in quickly while not having a digital backdoor

[@BandEAtoZ]

A lot of almost new safe locks found for sale at online auction sites are pulled off a brand new safe because that new safe owner wants an electronic lock put on. So the retailer pulls the basically brand-new lock off and slaps an elock on. Since that mechanical lock is no longer warrantied for a year they usually wont throw it on another customer's safe. So they resell em. Me? I use 'em to make dialing stations for all my LOCKSPORT safe manipulating friends. BTW, there are cool books on this out there for purchase.

[@WonkoTSane]

I am buying one of the same safes in the next day or two. I think I am going to order a mechanical lock for it. You are welcome to the electronic one. (I am local to you when you are actually at home)

[@robertboudrie2234]

S&G advises never to adjust the wheen tension as it is calibrated for maximum security, and if you do adjust it, use a torque wrench (Wheeler Engineering makes a nice one) to match factory spec. What are the Deviant's thoughts on this? I notice he manually tweaked this without any torque measurement.

[@ConstantlyDamaged]

So then, a question: Since these lock-bolt interfaces seem to be standardized somewhat, and the electronic locks on the market are insecure because of these backdoors-why is no one building an opensource hardware/software solution? Even if you had to use a commercial unit as a basis for it, to get the hardware interface and mechanisms, then swap the electronics over, it seems like it would be the better solution here.

[@josephsummerhays4650]

In the event of an EMP and the digital lock got fried, would the a digital safe be permanently open or permanently closed? Or would it me in whatever position it was at the time it got fried?

[@Cleverest_Clover]

your buddy seems very cool, going by the stickers

[@Derkiboi]

It's me, thank you

[@georgeblair7129]

Opposite of what my job has me doing for the banks. 😆 But we install fancier locks than what comes with guns safes. Spline key gets inserted to stay completely in the center. The cover even has a recess for it to exist in. Did you balance the combo?

[@iWhacko]

Hi Deviant, I got that Sparrows safe training lock a few years back when it came out, but never really got a hang for it. I found the included instructions very unclear. And also tried to find some good instructions online, but never really found some hat helped me get it. Would you be willing to post a video with simple step by step instructions? or guide me to a good place to learn more? Thanks

[@RealRickCox]

If there's one thing Edward Snowden taught the world... if it's electronic, you probably shouldn't trust it. I can trust mechanical locks (so long as Lock Picking Lawyer isn't around.

[@Subgunman]

Or Bosnian Bill! Wait, he retired from YT to take care of a sick relative.

[@RealRickCox]

@@Subgunman I didn’t hear the exact reason but I do remember LPL saying his buddy was retiring from YT. Loved Bill.

[@r2db]

You can't trust a Master lock . . . ever. They are only useful as lock-shaped jewelry, if your box or gate wants to look a little more fancy.

[@Utoobhero]

May I ask what you are using for lubricant?

[@Derkiboi]

We used CLP as it was nearby, but Dev mentioned super lube would be a better choice especially if it's not in an indoor environment

[@JPStewart]

Love the Connections Museum shirt! :)

[@KylejvT]

By who and where was that electronic lock made? I saw the large CE stamp on it but not sure if I've ever seen Liberty sold in EU so that makes me think they buying their locks from a third party.

[@saltyroe3179]

So now we need to create a data base of conversions. ❤ or does one exist?

[@jasonjenkins-ferris]

love ya bro, mean it. I'm no expert, the vast majority of my knowledge comes from reading the writings of the former VP of Engineering of Amsec, but anyway here we go: 1. The fact that you replaced the lock on a not-a-safe, but a RSC (if that?) isn't going to help much, though I do understand the whole reason for the Liberty scare, 2. if you are like me and might just have a safe that starts with "M" and ends in "link" and have aftermarket electronic locks, you can remove identifying marks that would render useless any "backdoor" specific to your serial, 3. my understanding is that Securearm is the cheapest Chinesium to ever get a UL approval on a type 1 electronic lock, so sure, i guess it's good to remove it (though if it's not causing issues w/i the first idk 30 days or so it's my understanding that it's likely gtg for the expected life of the lock. etc etc. we could go on talking about the benefits of electronic vs mechanical but in the end if it's what the liberty owner wants than I'm glad he's happy.

[@joesephkingston1621]

I have 11 gun RSCs ie “safes” from 3 different manufacturers and I tried going the other way with one of them. Having to remember multiple different combinations is a pain, despite two “safes” from the same vendor came with the same combo. Unfortunately the aftermarket dual locks are garbage and the OEMs are ridiculously expensive.

[@awweaver1]

This is unrelated to the video but: Are you still working on that Q&A video you posted about months ago Dev?

[@robertm1112]

Deviant, I dont have a safe but would like to get one eventually, I have been looking at veryious locks and since I have gotten rfid implants I would like a RFID safe lock but I cant find any, I see that S&G have some multi factor locks with Ibutton, but no RF. any insight to this would be welcome, thanks.

[@aquatrax123]

I want a kaba x-10 lock. Where can get one of those?

[@jmr]

They haven't earned my trust but it's good to see policy changes because not everyone can use a mechanical safe.

[@petergerdes1094]

It's unfortunate that electronic locks suffer from such trust issues since, in theory, they should be the more secure option. After all, ultimately, any mechanical lock potentially gives away information based on the mechanical construction and tolerances. Its easier to completely remove any such giveaways by communicating only via some nice digital protocol via a wire. Doing that right requires lots of effort and work to make sure you don't leak timing info, the lock behaves well when shorted etc... but it only needs to be done once... unfortunately the economics don't seem to be there to do this and it's really hard to verify there is no back door if you didn't build it yourself.

[@brettlaw4346]

Good video. Lots of useful information. Unfortunately, I think that is the end of cheap eBay stuff after 15k people watch the video.

[@MSGConcepcion25]

Bless

[@ColtonRMagby]

If I buy a safe, it will either already have a mechanical lock or get one installed before I even put ANYTHING in it besides the nuts and bolts that hold the safe together and the interior padding.

[@matthewellisor5835]

50-25-50-zero. It's my spirit

[@ericapelz260]

I'm contemplating this just for the added reliability of a mechanical lock.

[@Terabell]

I came across an old S&G 3 wheel lock - but no change key and are expensive where I am - do you know if anyone has successfully 3d printed the change keys

[@ObscuraDeCapra]

I want that John Brown sticker sooooooo bad.

[@Derkiboi]

LFK press

[@tatianatub]

love the safe stickers the longer i look the better it gets

[@Derkiboi]

thank you -Derk

[@jamesrowlands8971]

The only one I was a little hesitant on was the 'state affiliated media' one. That tag is one that Americans think helps identify propaganda, but Americans are the most propagandised people on the planet, largely via privately owned media like Fox & CNN. Russian, or Chinese state media are clumsy and bad at prop comparatively, and the biggest arbiter (Wikipedia) of who is to be trusted or not is heavily infiltrated by the CIA according to Australian state media, so basically using the 'state affiliated media' tag to determine where or where not to get your prop from is dangerous.

[@Derkiboi]

@@jamesrowlands8971is a joke, my guy

[@Derkiboi]

It's a more so a joke on how non western actors get that tag on twitter while Their western counter parts do not​@@jamesrowlands8971 that's pretty much it, nothing that deeper

[@JessicaFEREM]

No electric safe = no stinkin battery to fail.

[@DebakulumToughguts]

👍 für den Algorithmus

[@NetAnon]

Love those stickers

[@natthecatgirl]

Yes, they rock! And anyone who wants to be crabby over it can get bent.

[@darkedemobeast666]

Me too

[@Derkiboi]

Thank very much -Derrick

[@Derkiboi]

@@natthecatgirlOh I am ready to see it

[@marcppparis]

TIL. Deviant is a Dewalt guy

[@saltyroe3179]

You may not be smarter than me, but your manipulation skills are past me

[@gunnargu]

I don't agree with the guy that made the unlocky thing, it should just give the code, demonstrate that these locks are trash and people should not buy them.

[@shanman1382]

Iiked the video until the equality flag!!! Man what something to defend?

[@jayerjavec]

Analog RULES!

[@DeviantOllam]

Safe hipsters agree 😉

[@ronamer1]

buncha idiots trying to act like they like firearms while promoting alphabet mafia in the background.... they made tons of mistakes doing the install. use a screwdriver on screws, not a dewalt. that can go sideways and jack up the threads, head or worse.

[@Derkiboi]

Now this is a favourite. I'm glad you like my stickers

[@eriequiet]

*grumbles in biohacker*