How to Talk About Misinformation

In the first part of this three-episode series we touched on the fact that misinformation has been around for a long time, and that it may seem like a recent problem because the internet has forever changed the way we share information.
Since the internet and social media are probably here to stay, the best thing we can do about information, and therefore misinformation, is to understand how we receive it, and how best to deliver it.
Related HCT episodes:
A History of Health Misinformation: • Misinformation About H...
Be sure to check out our podcast!
• Podcast
Other Healthcare Triage Links:
1. Support the channel on Patreon: vid.io/xqXr
2. Check out our Facebook page: goo.gl/LnOq5z
3. We still have merchandise available at www.hctmerch.com
4. Aaron's book "The Bad Food Bible: How and Why to Eat Sinfully" is available wherever books are sold, such as Amazon: amzn.to/2hGvhKw
Credits:
Aaron Carroll -- Writer
Tiffany Doherty -- Writer and Script Editor
John Green -- Executive Producer
Stan Muller -- Director, Producer
Mark Olsen - Art Director, Producer
Images and Footage
Etienne Boulanger/Unsplash
Juri Gianfrancesco/Unsplash
Gradikaa Aggi/Unsplash
Giorgio Trovato/Unsplash
Brett Jordan/Unsplash
ronstik/iStock/Getty Images Plus
eugenekeebler/Creatas Video+/Getty Images Plus

[@pnwmeditations]

To be honest, I struggle with the "meeting the person where they're at" part of this equation. I worked for an Aerospace contractor for ten years, where checking my own biases and truth-seeking was a daily activity. I had to prove over and over and over that I was doing my absolute best to keep my biases in check and follow the data where it lead. Safety and human life (not to mention millions of dollars) were at stake. I had to be unfailingly honest, even if it put a target on my back, even if it put my career in jeopardy. I didn't have the luxury of somebody "meeting me at where I'm at". I had to be ready to defend every facet of any decision I made, and to show my work. To that end, my blood boils when people indulge in the dumbest possible conspiracy-mongering or disinformation campaigns. My own father, ostensibly a man of science before he retired, now (thanks to his right-wing media ecosystem) is "vaccine skeptic" and "doesn't trust the CDC" and says "Fauci Lied" and believes that the US should have let the virus run rampant instead of implementing social distancing measures. I have the strongest impulse to call people like this out - make them face the music, make them have to answer for their own reckless behavior. To play nice with them feels like infantilizing them, to shield them from the responsibility of being an adult in the modern world. And yet, I know that doing so will only push them further into the self-pity echo chamber. God, it's tough.

[@ecsdwe129]

Literally this. I completely understand, on a strategic level, using most effective tactics available to effect the most positive outcomes possible. But can we also stop for a moment to think about what these tactics actually constitute? A lot of the people engaging with this misinformation are behaving completely irrationally, if not outright maliciously. This misinformation and conspiracy theories are actively harmful to real world people. Many of them are straight up hostile to entire groups of people. And we are supposed to coddle the egos of people engaging in this insanity? We have to infantilize them and use the same conversational tactics with them that you would use with a misbehaving toddler? How many people unnecessarily died because of pandemic misinformation, and yet we have to go out of our way to let the people know who are engaging with this deadly misinformation that _it's not their fault_ that they contributed to the unnecessary deaths of _thousands or millions of people?_ Where is the accountability for these grown ass adults? Why is all the necessary work of combating misinformation put on a few educated individuals rather than the millions of hapless fools who swallow this shit without a single critical thought? Am I not allowed to be infuriated by the _coddling_ of this _insidious, dangerous stupidity?_ And yet, we have to, don't we? Because calling a fool a fool doesn't work, _even if it should._ It's infuriating and exhausting and depressing, but if you want to effect any kind of positive change, you have to play this the-floor-is-lava-obstacle-course game bullshit. You have to jump through hoops so you don't bruise some helpless fool's fragile ego.

[@TakeWalker]

you're not wrong, you can't meet fascists where they're at

[@pwykersotz]

That is the saddest rant I've ever heard. It sounds like you forgotten how to care about people. Some jobs do tend to burn the kindness right out of you.

[@danielbroderick7609]

Fauci and the CDC were wrong and they did lie.

[@SpySappingMyKeyboard]

I think it's important to realise that some jobs aren't for you. If you struggle with withholding your anger (justified as it may be), then it might not be your place to be the one changing antivaxxers minds. For the interactions you do have with antivaxxers, you can set up boundaries to avoid those topics. I have certain topics that I just don't raise with my family. I know that those topics would just cause strife. Maybe one day we will talk about them, but I have to recognise the steps I would need to take to have constructive conversations about these topics with them are not steps that I am equipped to take right now.

[@teetahh]

one facet of this topic i hope can be addressed is the distinction between misinformation and DISinformation. it seems like it's a reasonable task to convince people who have been misinformed with dialog and mutual respect, but what can we do about bad faith actors peddling deliberately incorrect information in order to further their own financial or political gains? it seems like that might be a bit more difficult, since the issue isn't ignorance, but instead intentional misleading

[@elkudos6262]

Like the troll factory of the late Evgeny Prigozhin.

[@uarthchylde]

beatings

[@rgbii2]

for "distinction between misinformation and DISinformation". They covered that in the first of the three episodes about three weeks ago. "Misinformation About Health Is Nothing New" It's not a deep dive, but they do cover it.

[@tHebUm18]

4:28 That's a mighty chasm to try to bridge.

[@Josh-ks7co]

The amount of effort to change someone's mind is kind of staggering. If you've gone through the trouble to compile the evidence for your claim that should be enough. Best of luck to the people who want to babysit.

[@aprildawnsunshine4326]

I've been working on being the person my loved ones can come to about anything with questions and I'll be honest, keeping my own emotions in check is the hardest part. I've found it's helpful to think about what led to this person holding this view and how little control they had in that (for instance underfunded education) and try to assume they have good intentions even if they are using hate speech until they show me otherwise. It also helps that I had to reeducate myself too. I'd love to hear more ideas on how to be that supportive educator without letting it become burnout.

[@tlouie3181]

this

[@scittw22]

There's no changing some people's minds. I was taught a long time okay the correct response to someone doubling down on something absurd is to say "okay" then move on

[@superslammer]

This sounds exhausting. I seriously just don't bother trying to talk to people about things anymore because I can't handle the level of ignorance and unwillingness to listen. I mean I've talked to people who were open and wanted to learn but this just seems like a lot of work on the expert to basically dumb down the conversation and also sneak up on the ignorant person to catch them off guard. I agree its probably the best method but I know I can't do it myself anymore.

[@PhysicsPolice]

4:36 Minor correction, don't ask "how it does so" because that's a leading question. It implies that it in fact does so. It does not, and you know that, so that would be a lie. Instead, ask for the reason they believe it does so. Careful epistemology is the key to respect in a disagreement.

[@robotron17]

*CDC Director 2021:* “More than 97% of people getting hospitalized with Covid-19 now are unvaccinated, Walensky said.” - CNN *CDC Director 2023:* "We still to this day do not have data on people who are coming into the hospitals who are vaccinated. That is a data point that we have lacked.”

[@eliljeho]

Two books: Stumbling on Happiness by Gilbert and How We Know What Isn't So by Gilovich has some really nice background as to how the brain is built. Accessible to many. I'm also supporting others in keeping the traditions that are important to them. You can have traditions and SCIENCE!

[@keenkrozzy949]

I have tried these strategies with friends and family, and the best results I have seen is getting people to respect certain spaces and mutually "dropping it" to focus on things we can bond with. They will still keep consuming misinformation fed by echo chambers in social media, youtube, and influencer content. Half of America age 30+ has several factors that make us a prime audience for misinformation influencers; a deep-seated distrust of "the man", cultural and economical abuse from the 1% that eats 99%, being led to believe that we can do anything if we work hard enough, etc... And here we are in 2023 with honestly smart and successful people somehow regurgitating ridiculous misinformation with the intent to double-down already primed. Because the misinformation influencers know how to prime them. People question and demonize decades of medical and technological progress, yet they continue to take advantage and trust things like Microwaves that we are told are safe to cook our food, or blindly follow religion on faith. It's mind numbing irony. And now if you factor in sunk cost fallacy, I honestly think the misinformation industry may push America into major conflict before we figure out how to deal with it.

[@awesomesam101]

Microwaves are a safe way to cook food.

[@keenkrozzy949]

I know. lol. I am comparing how people don't question tech that is convenient for them, but will question other tech if enough influencers talk about it, no matter how asinine the claims are.@@awesomesam101

[@keata1315]

I don't think I have the patience or strength to do this with people who *checks notes* still think the world is flat.😑

[@realmorgellons]

Would love to hear your thoughts on how Morgellons is presented and accepted on social media, particularly your analysis of factual evidence regarding this topic and how that evidence is excused by both promoters of misinformation as well as academia claiming it's not strong enough. Great videos, liking your channel ALOT!

[@minchulkim87]

I totally agree that empathy matters and that there is a very valid point about the genuine approach to conversations that lead to the other side in continuing the conversation with an open mind as opposed to shutting off. Has there been studies or observations where this seemingly exhausting pursuit is having positive results in educating and changing minds? Or are these mere suggestions in the lack of reasonable alternative approaches?

[@ArielAlvFal]

Sounds like PCCM! Patient Centred Clinical Method! Its heavily used in family and community medicine. Since we must, before even think of a possible diagnosis, understand what is the opinion and the perception that the person has about its own health problem. (In many many cases these perceptions are very different than the scientific explanation). That is paramount for a good relationship with the person we are caring. And it is a very good base for the person to learn more about health and to agree with science based therapeutics.

[@happyandhealthy888]

Emotional processing and pain?

[@bob-tg8kj]

Cool can you do a video that isn't debate in a college setting because the last 3 videos won't work on qanon

[@aaa303]

Does this channel intend to actually do anything with this revelation? Change it's format at all? Maybe invite guests on to raise their doubts and start dialogues?

[@hungrymusicwolf]

A very useful start to this conversation. Maybe we can create a culture where conversation and dialogue reigns instead of shouting as loud as you can from the highest rooftop about increasingly emotional topics until one sticks in the algorithm.

[@phukrnd840]

im not interested in getting any info from any source besides experts or close to experts... i could care less what someone thinks about something.. i want to hear what is known about something...

[@Etudio]

Eh. Fine.

[@afrz4454]

Who do I believe pharmaceutical companies or Doctors?

[@hexa1905]

You shouldn't beleive pharmaceutical companies but experimental sciences. Because it can be demonstrated to be true.

[@daisypearl3715]

Same thing

[@ericvulgate]

What about the power of threats and censorship to enforce correct thought?

[@Josh-ks7co]

Can you explain what you mean by correct thought and censorship/threats?

[@SatanicCultExpose]

Wikileaks giving people medical degree's Nowadays alright ok

[@hexa1905]

Now that you have acquired some skepticism, think again about have you beleive in, what you hold as sacred. For exemple, process again the reasons behind routine infant gen1tal mutilation. Conspiracy theories like 9 september and chemtrails are the easy part.

[@Jay-ho9io]

That's not exactly a hard one. Scarification is a common ritual threat human history, and rationalization is a common enough excuse making strategy. People make excuses for their scarification rituals once they are modern people. And thus we have female general mutilation and male circumcision.

[@biggestnate3]

No government sanctioned mis OR dis-information will ever be retracted. That's all you need to know.

[@elkudos6262]

Unless the regime changes. Khrustchev retracted the cult of Stalin. Brezhnev reinstated it, Gorbachev opened the archives, later, under Yeltsin, they closed them again, and Putin has been demonizing Gorbachev past twenty years. Now they are running stories in the evening news about how Kfar Aza is just as staged as Bucha was.

[@TheyCallMeNewb]

One source here on KZbin that I place prodigious (frightfully close to total) confidence in, is 'MedlifeCrisis'. So relentlessly scientifically minded -- just like Healthcare Triage!