How to test a wheel chair motor (1)

This is day one & the first step in making a homemade DIY self balancing 2 wheeled scooter inspired by the Segway.
We will be documenting each step on our website www.markssupplies.com
There are many motors & many ways of connecting them to the wheels but as far as I can see the wheelchair motors are perfect. They are designed for high torque & low revs but the best part is that they are already connected to the wheels & the whole assembly is designed to be mounted easily. Why make a design difficult when you can bypass potential problems & use these motors.
Well there is one drawback, they can be expensive, if you look on Ebay then you will find loads at between $50-$200 USD, $150 USD for a matched pair is fairly common. But if like me you need them shipped to another country then the shipping will cost a further $200.
I managed to pick up an almost complete wheelchair for $200 NZD in New Zealand but it took a lot of time & effort to find one. The chair is an Invacare PT2000 power chair.
As this project progresses we will find out if these motors are powerful enough to keep an adult balanced. The spec on each motor is 24v, 8A, & 120 RPM. This equates to almost 200 watts for each motor so lets hope it's enough.
Visit our website for the full story & many other projects.
Update....These motors were perfect without any further gearing for my Segway Project, I certainly wouldn't want to go any faster, if you wanted more speed for another project such as an electric cart etc then you would need to add a chain & sprockets to change the gear ratio. But it is perfect for a Segway as it is.

[@lionel2768]

thank you very much for the info. it really helped a lot.

[@RetreatfarmFarmvilleVirginia]

Are those HMC Motors? And in your opinion how much weight are they capable of moving together in unison?

[@MarksSupplies]

I'm using a 12v lead acid battery, I normally connect 2 together in series to get 24v. Any old 12v car battery will also do. The motors are designed for 24v but they can be tested with just 12v. To remove the brake and for lots more information please see our dot com web site markssupplies and have a look at the Segway project in particular.

[@whovisionsCGI]

Hi, my girlfriend is having problems with her wheelchair. The left wheel keeps rattling and shaking a lot and causes the wheelchair to lurch forward in use. Do you think the break is sticking? When it gets up to speed it smooths out. But soon as idle and then moving off slowly, the same problem happens.

[@WV591]

perfect just what i was looking for.TU. i hope it's not too late for me. I connected to battery didn't know about breaks. now i need a video on how to disconnect the breaks.

[@iandavis3936]

www.markssupplies.com/self-balancing-scooter-day-10.html Here's a link to my website

[@tech333tex5]

I took the brakes off to make a remote control wheelchair but now the computer is giving me a error code 3 which is brakes ,might you be able to tell me how I could make it work again? And if it's possible ....with out brakes ... Quantam edge 3 I think is what I have... thanks any info would be greatly appreciated

[@bencevagyok]

2:52 THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH!

[@MarksSupplies]

It's at the end of the first paragraph. I hope you find some of our other projects interesting.

[@kimpro5367]

ctsr8-320r motor dimension??

[@khemrajdeulkar9803]

Pls tell me motor specifications

[@sorova]

You can take the brake mechanism off altogether

[@MarksSupplies]

As per the video, I applied 12v DC to the middle pins to turn the brake off. You will here a small click when the brake solenoid disengages. Your plug maybe different but it will have 4 wires going to it, the 2 smaller gauge wires will be for the brake. The other 2 larger gauge wires will be for the 24v DC motors. Our dot com MarksSupplies website on our Segway Project page shows how you can easily mechanically remove the brake should you need to.

[@MarksSupplies]

Definitely DC.

[@benmuarem3420]

Wear is this serwis

[@MarksSupplies]

I haven't tried it but these motors come from wheelchairs & they are designed for 24v, a wheelchair isn't the fastest thing around but it does have a lot or torque. But if I was to half the power then I suspect it would not be good enough to propel a person adequately. These batteries are fairly cheap & it is easy to connect them together to create 24v, I would recommend doing this. Just connect + of one batt to the - of another, the 2 terminals that are left will have 24v on, it's that easy.

[@robstenson8084]

My Quantum Q6edge will only do 1.3 mph.I have new batteries. Any trouble shooting ideas?

[@iandavis3936]

It will either be the controller or a wiring problem leading to only 12v on the motor instead of 24v.

[@MrCoder101]

Do you compare the RPM of the motors? What if they're different? Will your motor controller compensate for this?

[@iandavis3936]

Any slight difference in RPM is compensated by the steering, of course the same model motor must be used for both wheels so there is not much difference in RPM anyway.

[@automoto95]

how strong is that motors running on 12v is stoppable by hands on wcheel?

[@iandavis3936]

No, it can not be stopped by hand.

[@iandavis3936]

It's not stoppable by hand but I'd recommend 24v.

[@billyrhea8643]

having problems with wheelchair. The left wheel keeps disengaging making it spin how do I fix it

[@iandavis3936]

The default for safety should be brake on with no power, either the brake is getting 12v or more due to a wiring problem or the brake mechanism is not returning to it's default position because it is sticking, the mechanism relies on a solonoid and these things can stick, if you can get to the inside of the solonoid then you should clean it and lubricate it with an oily rag. www.markssupplies.com/self-balancing-scooter-day-10.html

[@tnvikimtran]

Could you please let me what is voltage to apply to the break so the motor will turn for testing thx

[@iandavis3936]

12v is enough to release the brake.

[@adamboylston]

Does it provide enough torque to push you with only 12v?

[@iandavis3936]

I've only used 24v, plenty of torque at 24v.

[@cyberstar251]

im planing to use power chair motors to power an electric bike, are the electronics required for the system to work or can i just remove the electric brake and use a simple switch and charging circuit?

[@iandavis3936]

You definitely need electronics to control the power, a high current motor controller or try to use the electronics from the wheel chair.

[@cyberstar251]

right, thank you for the answer.and as for the electric brakes on the motors, do i remove them or are they required for the system to function properly?

[@iandavis3936]

These motors are high torque but low speed, for an electric bike I'd recommend getting an electric bike kit from China via Aliexpress, it's the lithium batteries that can be expensive.

[@iandavis3936]

They are not required for the system to work, they just stop the wheelchair rolling away when there is no power to the motors.

[@hassanahmed8060]

what is your recommended type of high torque motor since am doing a climbing stairs wheelcahir project for university regards, I look forward to your reply

[@iandavis3936]

+hassan ahmed These motors would seem ideal for that.

[@hassanahmed8060]

can you give a name of motor types?

[@jordan-il5mh]

hassan can you help me , because i am also doing same project on stairclimbing wheelchair. plz give me some information about motor. whatever kind of help you will do , will be appreciable from my side. i am just starting this project.

[@iandavis3936]

@@hassanahmed8060 motor info at bottom of this page: www.markssupplies.com/self-balancing-scooter-day-10.html Any wheel chair motor would be fine.

[@ahmedsamy5898]

Hello i have a motor like that and when i connect it to 24v battery it draw 14 ampere without moving and there is noise sound do you know what's the problem please?

[@MarksSupplies]

It sounds like you have not disengaged the brake, is there a lever or button on the outside of the gearbox that you can activate, if so try it and see if you can spin the motor by hand. Normally the gearbox needs a voltage across 2 of your 4 wires to disengage the brake. But the lever/button is there if your battery is flat and enables the wheelchair to be pushed.

[@niladri54]

What are the torque readings?

[@iandavis3936]

I have no idea of an actual reading but the torque is amazing, very good.

[@adamboylston]

What batteries are you using? I am working on a robot, but I can't seem to find any batteries for the same motors. Thanks!

[@iandavis3936]

any 12 or 24v batts will be ok, I was using 12v lead acid batts, the type found on motorbikes or house alarms but for a robot you should really use lithium batts as they provide a lot better power to weight ratio, you can get lithium cells from old laptop batteries.

[@taniacole3466]

Do you have any ideal why my mobility scooter bucks? It jerks, then will slow down, then resume normal speed, slows down etc

[@iandavis3936]

Never worked on a scooter, but I suspect it is dirty contacts in the speed control. If you have more than one motor then it would be obvious if it was motor related as it would not stay in a straight line.

[@scooterguy9302]

Could be motor brushes

[@deedee0938]

Ian Davis

[@chriselliott.4996]

Wire get hot under battery go BOOM

[@mikeosborn3906]

Can you not disengage the brake with manual lever or is there not one.....

[@iandavis3936]

Yes, there is a manual lever, but I go on to use these motors to make a segway, and I do not need or have the room for a manual lever in my design. I think the manual lever just disengages the motor/gearbox. But if you tried to run the motor then the main drive shaft will not turn because it has been manually disconnected by the lever. To get the wheelchair to electrically move you would have to re-engage the lever and apply power to disengage the brake and motor.

[@gimpygrandpa8281]

The brake is always engaged unless power is run to it to open it.

[@kenkittendorf6173]

If brakes removed will chair still operate?. (Flood damaged) KK Port Charlotte FL

[@iandavis3936]

The chair will still operate without brakes. The brakes are designed to be on all the time unless a voltage is applied to them, so if you have a flat battery and are on a hill the brakes will engage automatically. Removing the brakes will remove this safety feature.

[@tech333tex5]

Any way we can bypass the safety feature?

[@iandavis3936]

@@tech333tex5 Here is the link for removing the electric brake: www.markssupplies.com/self-balancing-scooter-day-2.html

[@michaeljohnson5370]

@@iandavis3936 Hiya does it work on a mobility scooter and will scooter work as normal? Thanks

[@MarksSupplies]

Yes, it is possible to remove the brake assembly. If you would like to see how I did this then please go to my web page here: www.markssupplies.com/self-balancing-scooter-day-2.html

[@samuraikhan6854]

How did you energize the brakes? On the motors I have - there are four terminals: - Red - Black - White - White I believe the Red/Black terminals are for running the motors. Now how do you connect +/- to the two white terminals? Thanx

[@iandavis3936]

Ubaidul Khan Yes, the red is +24v DC and the black is -24v DC, it will also work ok with 12v but it is designed for 24v. The 2 white wires in any order can also be connected to 12v, one on +12v DC and the other on -12v DC, you will here a click when you do this which is the brake solenoid disengaging. When you here the click then you know it is ok to run the motors and connect your black & red wires.

[@iandavis3936]

Here is a link to my website where I show how to physically remove the brake and how I used these motors to make a segway.

[@vidneypopples]

Ian Davis Ian Davis Where is the link?

[@iandavis3936]

www.markssupplies.com/self-balancing-scooter-day-10.html

[@user-pe7zs2rb2p]

ابحث عن مطور كهربائي انا من المغرب اعاني من إعاقة هذا رقم+212623449452

[@stevenodber5922]

How do i connect Power wire to a Power Wheelchair Motor that is already installed on a Wheelhchair. In order to Turn that Motor ON , for each wheel on the Chair. To propel the Chair Forwards or Backwards. Using a toggle switch power control to the Motors and battery. Needed to Drive the Wheelchair Forwards without Steering Control. In situations the Regular Motor Control needs to be BYpassed to disengage the Computerized Drive Controls that are Causing the WHeelchair Wheels to stop on slippery Surfaces. The Wheelchair could be driven out of from stuck positions in difficult terrain if this New Motor Control was installed COrrectly. Answer this as I need to know, Locals here in the Sault Ste Marie dont have any explanations as to how to Connect the Power to the Motor safely from a Secondary Source.

[@iandavis3936]

How to connect the wires is covered here and in the comments many times but for your situation I would stick to 12v for the motor and brake power, I assume you have 2 12v batteries and they are connected in series to create 24v. So just connect 2 wires to one of the batteries and have those 2 wires connect to a simple on off switch and then down to the brake to disengage it, then have the same or another 2 wires from the same battery go to a simple 3 way switch and back down to the motor. This is how you would connect just one motor, so if you want independent motor control just repeat this for the other side. So you would have 1 on off switch to disengage the brake and another 3 way switch to go forward off or reverse. The 3 way switch will be a DPDT (double pole double throw) 15A 3 position with 6 terminals. I'd use 12v only so that the motors are slower and less likely to cause an accident, but you would still need to be careful as there will be no speed control. To add speed control is a whole new level of difficulty and cost.

[@stevenodber5922]

@@iandavis3936 Yes this Wheelchair is 24 volts, I would want to limit the Power Switch to be 12 volts to reduce the speed of motor. I would want 1 switch to control both Motors , so they would drive straight and not turn the Wheelchair. I wasnt sure an Additional Power source could be added. Would Sparks Fly if i by mistake left the Chair Power on and then also the New Power Switch we are Wiring? I would have the regular power to the Chair off and then turn the motors on with the seperate switch. So that both Wheels Spun but without steering.

[@iandavis3936]

If you left the chair power on by accident then nothing would happen unless you touched the joystick. If that happened I don't think it would be a problem but the chair would be difficult to control. The switches that I mentioned could be wired so that they control both motors and not just one, but you would still need 2 switches in total, one to put the brake off and the other to turn the motors on. This whole idea is feasible but it can also cause an accident unless you are careful, there are better ways of doing this with relays so that you can not energise the motors with the main power on or the brakes on but it is complicated for a DIY person to do and would include a lot more wiring but no expensive components just a lot of labour.

[@stevenodber5922]

@@iandavis3936 Oh Ok, the only scare i had was that 1 power supply to the motor was 24 volt and the other switched was 12 volt. I am Very Unlearned but remember mixing different voltages was a NONO. as when both the 12 volt and 24 volt power sources were accidently switched ON. I would love to Hire an Expert to wire this up for me but explaining this to Local Technicians that i can reach by phone would not end up finding me a Pro that could safely install that. I Often get stuck in 2 inches of snow and then the wheelchair computer only allows 1 wheel to spin. So I remain Stuck, but if 2 wheels were spinning then i could get unstuck from the 2 inches of snow. then return to regular control of the wheelchair. Noone on the Market has a Solution except to buy a new 25000 dollar wheelchair, so it is worth my effort to learn to install the 12 volts switch.

[@MarksSupplies]

I have these motors and batteries for sell on the website if anyone is interested.

[@jaimecamacho9303]

how m tv

[@buster2725]

Dam your hands hide everything and how about overhead shot shots and closeup of plug.i know this is older got anything new i don't see any answers

[@iandavis3936]

In the plug there should be 4 wires, the 2 large wires are for the motor and the 2 small wires are for the brake, apply 12 or 24v to the 2 brake wires, if you hear the click of the brake disengaging then you have the polarity correct, and then apply12 or 24v to the 2 motor wires, the polarity doesn't matter for the motor, it will either go forward or reverse depending on polarity.

[@DragonsREpic]

Dude those use AC!!!

[@3isgone]

If you're doing an instructional video with your hands in the way, it's useless..

[@gimpygrandpa8281]

White is for the brake, red is hot, black negative.

[@edgaralejandre1522]

you don't explain how to hook it up,you just wire it yourself,so it does not teach us how to test it really DA...

[@iandavis3936]

I'm fairly sure all the information can be found in the comments and replies to others, but this motor has 4 wires, 2 small & 2 large, put 12 v across the 2 small wires and it should release the brake with a click, if it doesn't then reverse the way you have wired it. The motor should move freely now, keep this 12v connected because you need the brake to continue to be off for the next bit. Next is add 12 or 24v,( your choice, it will work with both & 12v is fine for testing but it is normally designed for 24v) across the 2 larger wires and the motor will turn. Wire these 2 wires the other way and it will reverse the direction of the motor.