HOW TO: Thin & Sharpen Knives Without a Primary Bevel - Tojiro, Shun, Miyabi

[@thiago.assumpcao]

Among so many crappy yt sharpening videos it's always good to find someone teaching good technique. I've tested two different thinning methods. One exactly as you said and the other one you lay flat the knife on the stone and adjust the grinding spot by putting pressure near the edge. Your method works way faster and creates a slight convex profile that reduce resistance because of food adhesion. 5 degrees takes more effort but final result is better than 8 in my opinion.

[@KnifewearKnives]

Thank you for sharing your findings, I'm glad you enjoyed the video!

[@eygenv7746]

Thank you! Perfect guide that helped me sharpen my laminated santoku, takes some practice but your explanations are great!!

[@KnifewearKnives]

Glad it helped!

[@HellGatefr2]

What a goldmine of information, thank you

[@KnifewearKnives]

I'm glad to hear it!

[@MBR843]

Good timing for this video.... just attempted this method coupled with shibata style sharpening, on Cerax 1000 and Cerax 8000, on my Masamoto Vg 210. I'm happy with the results!!

[@KnifewearKnives]

I'm glad to hear that!

[@GrantHendrick]

As always a very helpful video. Thank you Naoto.

[@KnifewearKnives]

Thanks Grant!

[@arturhakobyan6850]

I thined my chipo knife with proxxon angle grinding mashine and and sand paper discs. It turned out pritty good... 😊

[@enobil]

About getting the best finish, i got good results if i thin while holding edge parallel to the length of the stone, not diagonal to the stone. That way the upper parts of the blade near the spine remain outside of the stone, in the sides, so they can't possibly get scratched, even if you drop the angle too much momentarily. And it must be done ambidexterously otherwise e.g. right side gets ground well but left side completely different convexity and wrong upper spots get ground. Hard to explain but when done as i mentioned the swarf lines on the stone will be vertical. And i think this solves another problem too that it can be used on concave grind gyutos like maskage yuki etc because that shinogi bump won't get in the way. So basically you would use 1/3 left and right sides of the stone with parallel scratch patterns ambidexterously. This parallel scratch patterns more often used in polishing but i think it is useful for thinning too.

[@brandonwilson896]

i like to use the old razor trick for thinning a knife with no primary or shinogi. get your roll of electrical tape and put a few layers in taco formation around the spine of the knife and then just go to town. Loved the video brother, and im about to order my second knife.

[@KnifewearKnives]

That's a great tip, thanks for the love!

[@warwickruse2556]

taco formation? explanation for geographical outsider please

[@alfieboy4022]

This is the way. You get a super consistent angle too because you effectively have an angle guide. I use a DMT coarse/extra coarse diamond “stone” (220 grit/320 grit) to set the primary bevel then retape with the same number of layers and use a naniwa pro progression to 4k to refine the finish on that bevel. Get a super clean, even bevel line with no need to clean up scratches on the main blade face.

[@alfieboy4022]

@warwickruse2556 by taco formation they mean putting electrical tape along the spine lengthwise (basically take a long strip of electrical tape the length of the spine and tape the spine of the knife so half of the strip is on each side of the spine but running along its full length. Then repeat with more layers until you’re at the desired angle. It’s called a taco because it looks like a hard shell taco)

[@KeenanTheArab]

Niiiice. I just got a tojiro so this is perfect.

[@KnifewearKnives]

Right on!

[@riseonePDX]

Just saw the other video where you mention "contamination" of stones. Can that happen too by how you're rubbing them on the same towel, Or is it worse with the water?... Genuinely curious because it's never crossed my mind... Thanks in advance!

[@tomtimmer7418]

Great video and thanks for the effort. What is the machine in the background on the very left? I am looking for a japanese whetstone machine which runs the stone vertically; like a Tormek but with a lager and wider stone. Thanks a lot.

[@KnifewearKnives]

It's similar to a Tormek! Just a different brand

[@tomtimmer7418]

@@KnifewearKnives Thanks.

[@IDuBStepSZ]

Could you thin a knife like this using sandpaper wrapped around a hard bit of material or on glass?

[@KnifewearKnives]

In theory, yes! That said, it'll take a huge amount of sandpaper to meaningfully thin the blade, so you'd have a much better time with a stone.

[@IDuBStepSZ]

@KnifewearKnives Thanks for taking the time to reply! I was just wondering because I don't want to damage/wear down my whetstones too fast as they're not cheap. I did find a shapton 120 for £35ish, which isn't too bad, so I might get that when the time comes Happy new year to all you guys!

[@pauloaugustino7262]

I saw the knifewaer 220 is not really available on Germany (50$ shipping) since it’s produced by Naniwa could you tell me if it’s comparable with the chosera / advanced / basic stone from naniwa since I can get these here in Germany. Kind regards

[@KnifewearKnives]

Very comparable!! I like the Chosera stones a lot, and use them very often!

[@MrJanja93]

Hi, ive recently been finding my misono ( had for around 8 years) has not been retaining its edge for very long after sharpening. Could this be a thinning issue?

[@KnifewearKnives]

That's often the case once you've had a knife for that long, thinning would be a good idea!

[@binobones]

The scratch pattern is quite pretty imo.

[@smellybrainz]

Thank you!! I did this to my Shun chef knife a while back, would have been nice to see your video first, but I was pretty close to your technique I think. Got a range of sandpapers and was almost able to bring back the mirror finish! 🤙

[@KnifewearKnives]

That's awesome, great work!

[@awangsakti1391]

Can u show how to sharp 70/30 bevel

[@michelepalermo2949]

I don't understand well why should i do this , what's the meanings of no bavel , if i have to sharpening a knife I'll going to the edge it's not correct this ?

[@KnifewearKnives]

Good question! If you only sharpen the edge, the knife will eventually get quite thick. By thinning, you keep it cutting like new after every sharpening.

[@ZarlanTheGreen]

*_There is no such thing, as a knife without a primary bevel!_* That would just be a flat piece of metal. No edge. Just a perfectly rectangular cross-section. What you're describing, is a primary bevel *_that starts from the spine,_* rather than from about halfway down the blade. A knife that only has an edge bevel (which, in that case, would be the primary bevel. With there being no other bevels), would never need to be thinned. Ever. (or you could say that sharpening it, is the same as thinning it) Also, please keep in mind that "secondary bevel" doesn't mean "edge" or "edge bevel". (AFAIK, no one says "edge bevel" ...but, IMO, you absolutely should) Knives with a true flat grind, a Scandi grind, or a full/true convex or hollow grind, with no additional bevel, have just a single bevel. That means that the edge is the primary bevel. Not the (non-existent) secondary. Whereas, e.g, a sabre/flat grind with a secondary bevel, and an additional micro-bevel on that, has the edge on the tertiary bevel ...and you could go on.

[@KnifewearKnives]

This particular knife is flat ground, and sanmai! So it needs to be thinned in order to expose the core steel, no other reason! It performs much better now that the core steel is fully exposed and we aren't cutting with the cladding steel!

[@ZarlanTheGreen]

@@KnifewearKnives You have not even tried to address a single word of what I said. In any way, shape, or form. Nor do you show any sign, of having read/understood a word of it. Also, the core steel *_is always exposed!_* No amount of use or sharpening, would lead to the core not being exposed. Much like your analogy of a pencil. There is no amount of using, or sharpening, you can do to a pencil, that would result in the pencil lead no longer being exposed. That makes no kind of sense, in any way, shape, or form. It is *_physically impossible._* Thus, the fact that it's three layered, is completely irrelevant.

[@NathanRodger]

@@ZarlanTheGreen Perhaps this video is not for you. That is ok. I understand what you are trying to convey... however, the terms used in this video are not unusual in reference to knives and sharpening. Maybe there's a different video that aligns with you better! Wishing you the best!

[@ZarlanTheGreen]

@@NathanRodger The terms used in this video are common, in regards to knives and sharpening, yes. It is fine, even good, for the terms to be used. The issue is, that *_THEY CLEARLY DON'T HAVE THE MEANINGS THAT ARE USED HERE!!!_* Not among sharpeners, knifemakers, or any other relevant people, nor anyone outside of those fields. The way they are used here, is *_objectively and indisputably_* wrong, false, and *_incoherent!_* You are defending the *_misinforming, misleading, and confusing_* of people. You also support making the terms useless, due to people having various different, and false, ideas of what they mean. You are anti-fact, anti-truth, anti-education... why are you on a video that purports to inform people, when you are obviously against the notion, of spreading knowledge?

[@NathanRodger]

@@ZarlanTheGreen I appreciate you investing so much energy into this. I wish you all the best.

[@RazorsEdgeDIY]

WAY TO MUCH TALK! BYE!