HOW TO USE DRAG FACTOR and Damper Setting Effectively on the Concept 2 Indoor Rower

[@TravisGardner]

If you are used to using a higher drag factor than I recommend in this video you should GRADUALLY lower it to the range I suggest (maybe lower by 5 per week till you get to the desired range and only keep lowering if you have no back issues). Connecting with lower resistance setting requires better technique and if you do not have good mechanics at the front end you may develop a tender back. Your split will be slower at lower drag factors if all other factors are held consistent. I suggesting compensating slightly with a quicker drive, but don't get to the point where you are "spinning your wheels". You should still feel a firm connection and acceleration, but a lower split is ok if you still have good drive mechanics/dynamics. If you struggle to keep your steady state from reaching higher intensity levels, this is a good way to bring your effort in line with where it should be without slowing down your leg drive.

[@andreasvonkoskull4885]

Hi Travis! Thanks a bunch for making this video. Wish I had seen it before as I could see some clear benefits from this from my first erg session after I watched it!

[@rowalong]

I found this really interesting. I've been rowing 'properly' on the Erg since 2013 (I don't do OTW rowing) - and I've always been told to hold the same DF and only change it when I'm doing anything like 500m / 1min / 100m races by increasing it to take advantage at higher stroke rates. What you're saying about lowering the drag for lower rates does make sense in terms of consistency of leg drive speed. Assuming that what I took from this is correct of course! That from a mechanical point of view, it makes sense to have the same drive speed for all paces - so my 32spm 2K TT drive speed is the same as my 18spm 2K+20 pace drive speed. Lowering the drag being the way to make sure that I can hit that pace at the same drive speed, even though there's a longer period of recovery between the two stroke rates I’ve never closed my mind off to any kind of different approach to training, so I’ll be sure to put this into practise and see how it feels. I run a channel with lots of workouts for people to RowAlong with (and judge my butt-scoot) and it’ll be interesting to see how this fits in with those kinds of training sessions. (For info, I'm 46, lightweight, inseam 31 inches. My best 2K was 6:37 at 165DF - and I've never been able to get near that with a 130DF. I use 145 right now for all sessions. Technique wise, I've got a bit of a butt-scoot going on, and I have an annoying 'lunge' from my shoulders (in fact, watch any of my recent RowAlong workouts if you want to see my form) - so I don't think I'm the type of rower who fights the weight of the machine with an early upper body hinge.) Thanks!

[@bronsteinr]

I am 48, 6’3”, 225 pounds. I was a marathoner and my running weight was 210, but started rowing because all three of my kids are rowers. Started in the erg and a year ago learned to row on the water. I very competitive and my goal is to get as fast as I can. My best 2k is 6:48, my best 6k is 22:02. I row at 130 drag factor and find both in the water and on the erg that I row much faster at lower stroke rates with max power. On the erg I can hold 28 stroke rate and when I go higher my heart rate increases quickly and my row/test go downhill quickly. Same in the water. I can hold 24 with max power for scrimmage races but the others are at 28-30 and I get slower.

[@0liw00d]

Hello Travis. Thanks for another great video ( all of them are very informative and excellent). Thanks for your take on drag factors. After years of training at too high a DF ( 120-130), I’ve been trying to reduce it significantly for the last few weeks and I’m now using a 95-100 setting for UT2 sessions. I’m noticing that my drive time has reduced quite significantly and closer to that ideal 0,7. Also, I’ve watched pretty much all your videos about steady state and I changed my approach completely about HR training. Will see how that goes in the next few months! For anyone interested, I’m 37, 6’2, 80kg, and I’m looking to compete as a LW at french nationals indoors champ in feb 2022. ( if those ~5kg become too hard to lose, I’ll stick with Hw) and hopefully achieve a sub7 2k.

[@TravisGardner]

hi Olivier, thanks for the feedback. Always wonderful to know it is making a difference for athletes out there! PS I'm sitting a little under 80kg myself. Those extra kilos I put on last winter just won't go away!

[@momomomo-rv2ct]

Really thank you for this awesome video. And hello from France Travis

[@TravisGardner]

You are very welcome!

[@torsionality]

Really interesting. With the cycling analogy: I run a 50/34 chainring on my commuter bike and a 52/36 on my go-fast TT bike. I've been running a 115-120 drag factor, dropping it down 5 points for half marathon and up, and raising it for 500 and under sprints, so that sounds in line with what you're saying. (41M, 7:18 2K). Actually, I was erging yesterday morning and the wind started to kick up around sunrise, and the drag factor crept up about 5 - the wind was blowing right into the side of the fan cage. Tapped the damper down a bit and kept going

[@TravisGardner]

Haha, yeah. Erging on a windy day can often introduce some unintended fartlek to the session. 115-120 df is definitely high if you're at 7:18 for 2k (assuming a stroke rate in the mid 30s, if your stroke rate is in the 20s it may be more appropriate). Do you use that same drag factor for your longer aerobic sessions?

[@torsionality]

@@TravisGardner Yep, same for the longer sessions, rates in the 20's though. (Edit: 2K and under tests and intervals are 30+ rate, everything else is below 30.) I was doing a 50K and i noticed it was getting harder .. and looked at the drag factor Ergdata was displaying. Easy fix.

[@TravisGardner]

Gothca. Bringing your cadence down to the high teens during the long aerobic rows along with a lower damper setting should allow you to keep a good pressure without pushing out of the desired training intensity. You can use Ergdata to monitor your drive time. Generally I'd say this should be around or below .7 seconds. Maybe a touch higher if you're in the early phases of your rowing career.

[@torsionality]

@@TravisGardner thanks. Been doing R16-19 for my steady state stuff per your previous stuff, will also keep an eye on drive time. Been trying to make it forceful, but that's more of a declarative that quantitative.

[@TravisGardner]

@@torsionality Watching the power curve could be helpful here as well. You want a smooth and symmetric parabola with a relatively high peak. If you pull the same split at the same stroke rate you'll notice the curve looks very different for a drag of say 95 versus 120. This is another good way to find what drag factor is ideal for each training intensity.

[@cannibalholocaust3015]

I picked up gym used Model C and cleaned it out and got the fan housing newly powder coated. Cleaned the flywheel and fins like new. PM5 displaying 249 DF (before it was 180) so I’m pleased. Makes nice whooshing sound too. Advise people to stay at low drag to avoid injury.

[@cannibalholocaust3015]

Meant to say at setting 10 it’s 249. At setting 1 it’s 120, did I break the machine? 😂

[@TravisGardner]

120 is pretty high for setting 1, but you can always just lower it by putting something on the outside of the fan housing to block more of the air flow (packing tape, paper, and envelope, etc.)

[@eldonlarson992]

What drag factor for 72 year old 180 pound 5'11", pant inseam 30-31, 2K @ 7:35. Where set for training and where if decide to compete?

[@TravisGardner]

Somewhere between 107 and 112 for 2000 meters. Proportionally lower for training depending on the energy zone being targeted.

[@adamcrew7247]

Thanks so much for this video. Very informative. I am fairly new to indoor rowing. I am aMasters athlete, 48yo, 6’3, 95kg. Current PBs are 3.05 1k and 6.37 2k R30. Have always had DF at 130-135 (based on GB rowing advice) but guess this is for elite? I’d be very grateful for any advice on where I should be with DF. Thanks again

[@TravisGardner]

hi Adam, are you training with a focus on on-the-water performance or just the indoor rower. If the former than using lower drag factors in training will be important to ensure your legs move fast enough to connect with the water at race pace. If the latter, quick legs are better if you can get the rate up but otherwise it is less important. For your speed and size I'd recommend drag factors in the 115-120 range for race pace and then lower in training. Definitely take your time adjusting though, maybe lower by 5 or so every couple of weeks until you get to the desired range. Large and sudden changes in drag can cause problems in the transfer chain (mainly back) regardless of whether you are going up or down. Feel free to hit me up for a consult at gtsrowing.com if you want to talk in more depth. Hope that helps though!

[@gnr76]

thank you!

[@foowishamewican]

Great video and very informative......im going to put that into practice....question if your doing a sprint surely you don't want a high damper setting because that will slow your start? Thanks

[@TravisGardner]

Depends on what you consider a sprint. 2000 meters is often called a sprint in rowing which is a gross misuse of the term. 100 meters up to 1 minute would run the range of short and long sprints. In some circumstances you could call 500 meters a sprint, but that requires a talented athlete (physically and technically). For each of those efforts, a higher drag factor is appropriate. Using myself as an example, the drag for each of my PRs are 118 (2000 meters), 160 (One Minute), and 220 (100 meters). I haven't actually performed a 500 meter record attempt, but expect that I would use something much closer to 118 than to 160.

[@foowishamewican]

@@TravisGardner I agree im fairly new to rowing but 1000 upwards dont feel like a sprint....maybe me comparing to more seasoned rowers it does seem like a sprint Im really struggling to get a sub 2:00:00 pace regardless of what distance i row and that is me going some. im improved my technique and i think its ok now. Compared to others who look like they are rowing effortlessly and have a better pace i really dont know what i can do to improve it...im 5"9 btw. When i compare compare myself to other on the concept 2 website im well down the list im not obese and fairly stocky not the most unfit person in the world

[@micahmalloy]

This is eye opening for me as I have always been using the same DF for all of my erg training. I am a 55 year old male with a 34” inseam. I have been using a DF of 115. What should I use for steady state?

[@TravisGardner]

What splits are you holding and for how long? Are you an on-the-water rower or indoor only?

[@sjkress]

Loved the video! Finding the optimal drag factor(s) for training and racing is something I’ve been working on for a while. I’d love to get your thoughts. Here is some information about me. I’m 35 years old. I ran long distance (5K to the marathon) from high school through 2018 when I switched to erging as my primary form of exercise. I generally log between 60-80K per week on the erg. I’m 5’7 and 135 lbs. My inseam is 30 inches. My personal best in the 2K is 6:57.9, set in May. The drag factor for that piece was 119. My best 1K (also from May) is 3:19.2 (122 drag factor), and my best 500 is 1:32.9 (at 150 drag factor). Thanks, and keep this great content coming!

[@TravisGardner]

I think going down to 110-115 drag factor my be helpful for you, especially if you are rating in the 30s for your 2k/1k. If you are in the high 20s, then the 119 may be fine. For the most part I kept athletes pulling 7:10 around 110 and went up to 115 as they got closer to 6:50. A good way to experiment would be to try a variety of drag factors when doing pieces at race rate. Maybe do 3x1k, full rest at 110/115/120 and see if you feel a more sustainable power dynamic on one over another. If in doubt, always best to go a touch higher. If you feel super heavy at the end of a race piece and cannot shift into an effective sprint, that is a good sign you are geared too high. That assuming you've paced it well of course (fly and die is always going to feel bad at the end...)

[@sjkress]

Travis Gardner thanks!

[@gilesstewart8791]

Travis, I'm 65 years old, 5'7" with a 30" inseam. I'm new to Concept2 and trying to find the right DF. I have been rowing for about a little over a year on WaterRower and pulled a 7:12 2k on that - so, assuming around an 8:00 on C2. Would appreciate your thoughts, thanks.

[@TravisGardner]

Hi Giles, you should be good around a 105 df for max or near max efforts. Maybe experiment up to 110 df. As you get faster increase that by maybe 5 for every 40 seconds of speed (very rough estimate there). For aerobic training I'd go about 15-25 below your df at max effort. Give that a shot and circle back with some feedback on how it feels. Best, Travis

[@jshepar]

Thanks for the video. I’m a 38 yo male, 162#, 5’11” My 2k is in the 7:20s, trying to get better. For several years I’ve rowed everything at ~124 DF. I had no idea I should be lower (especially for the longer rows!) thanks for any advice on my DF. Would also like to hear advice on s/m for 2k, 5k, 10k. Thanks much!

[@TravisGardner]

You're welcome. Glad it helped. Regarding your question on spm though, I would need to have a much more in depth knowledge of you as an athlete and your training before making any suggestions there.

[@ronbiggs5912]

Some great info in the video. So I am new to rowing and using it for cross training as a trail ultra runner. I am 6’1’ and 205 pounds with a 34’ inseam. Just trying to figure my drag factors for steady state 10,000 meters and a more power focused shorter distance. Was thinking about 90 DF for the steady state and about 120 DF for the power sessions. Any advice?

[@TravisGardner]

That's definitely in the right range. For specific suggestions I would need to know what splits you are producing for your various training/testing sessions.

[@Spotty-World]

Great vid. I'm 45 years old with a 33 inseam @ 5'11, just did a 140 for 500 meters and some months ago did a 19:30 for 5K with a drag of 160(had no idea about this stuff!) . Any suggestions regarding my drag for a 2K attempt nkwnthatbim learning??

[@TravisGardner]

Thanks Mark. 110-115 would be appropriate for an athlete of your size and speed (assuming a racing stroke rate in the mid 30s for 2000 meters). Definitely don't just dive in to that though if you are used to 160. Take a couple months to transition down.

[@Spotty-World]

@@TravisGardner stroke rate. Interesting. . I have alot to learn. That was great. Thanks!!!

[@juicybacon12]

Hi there, I’m 6’4 and am a runner and picked up rowing in past months. I have not time trialed myself yet, but based on splits during harder efforts I’d presume I’m around 7:30’s for 2K. Any advice on Drag factor considering my height and time? My rate is usually around 30-31 during hard efforts. Thanks in advance. Love the videos

[@TravisGardner]

Welcome to rowing. Running was my primary sport as well before finding rowing. :) If I was coaching you I'd have you using between a 110-115 for testing, and as low as 85 for training. Note it will be far more challenging for a new rower to produce power at the lower drag factors because they require sharper technique. Don't be afraid to start high and work your way down as your efficiency improves. Rowing too low can be as detrimental for your back as would be rowing too high. Good luck and have fun!

[@juicybacon12]

@@TravisGardner I really appreciate the quick response! And I’m sure I will have more questions in the future. Cheers

[@joshuacharlton8475]

I'm confused as whenever I set out to do a 2k for instance, I find that I'm just faster with a higher df. If I set it too low, i feel like I can't get the splits low without a ridiculous rate that would burn me out aerobically. Hmm maybe I will take your suggestion and try to lower it over time, but I always imagined that when I'm amped up for a short test like a 2k, that higher is better within reason - say up to like 140. Pulling like 7:30-7:45 right now. Curious how that shakes out

[@TravisGardner]

Hi Joshua, what rate are you using for your 2000 meter time trials? 140 df is very high for a time of 7:30.

[@joshuacharlton8475]

@@TravisGardner Thanks for the reply and thanks so much for the videos -- you've clarified my thinking on training and you've given me tons to consider. Very grateful. I normally row a 2k around 28-30 SPM and have always had it in my head that it's easier to go faster with a df of at least 130. I will try to taper down the df and possibly raise the rate if i have to and see what happens

[@TravisGardner]

Always glad to help when I can. Racing in the mid to high 30s is generally going to be the most efficient range for rowing. If you are training to race on the water, I would consider it essential. Slides can also help with this as they ensure your energy is going to moving the flywheel and not your bodyweight. Try rowing 1-2 minutes at a time at 34-36 spm with the damper setting all the way down and pressure around 25% (split will end up between UT1 and UT2). Your goal is to move at a smooth, even pace through the stroke cycle, place particular emphasis on eliminating hesitation at the catch and release. This is a favorite drill of mine to help athletes learn to relax and move at race races efficiently. 4-6 minutes worth of these drills a couple times a week for a few months will help. At first your split will be much faster than steady state because you haven't learned to relax enough and be light with the leg drive. With additional practice you should be able to row the drill comfortably for several minutes at a time.

[@dianemoore4762]

Does having the ergo on slides affect the drag factor?

[@TravisGardner]

It does not.

[@dianemoore4762]

@@TravisGardner Thank you 😊

[@stereoprologic]

Hey Traivs, I'm a 37 y/o male, 6'6, 250 lbs - any recommendation on what drag factor to use for steady state 1h+ and what to use on a 2k? I currently use 120 on a 2k, coming in at 8m12s on my latest. Mainly trying to get fitter and lose some weight. Thanks!

[@TravisGardner]

Thanks for the question. It depends a bit on your long term goals and your performance along the way, but I'm going to assume you don't have plans to row on the water so based on that I would recommend slowly lowering your drag factor for ut2 each week until you are around 100. Don't lower it more than 5 every 3-4 weeks though so you have time to adapt at each stage. Based on your 2k it looks like you're still learning how to leverage your weight and suspend properly. Make that your training priority for now. Once you do that you'll be 50 seconds faster for 2000 meters on efficiency alone.

[@johncasey8622]

Hi Travis Interesting topic. I train on the erg for on water performance single scull. I'm a sub 6.20 erger at 6ft and 91kg, . I use damper roughly 125 to 130 and maybe 135 for a 30min rate 20 piece. Do you think I'm going too heavy with my damper? Thanks for your response. John

[@TravisGardner]

Hi John, the drag you are using for 2k is within the range I'd consider effective given your body and performance. Personally I would lean more toward the low 120s but if you prefer a little heavier you can rig your boat to accommodate that preference (especially a single). I am a big believer that stroke rate has more influence on speed and pure power per stroke, so if a slightly lower gear allows you to pick up a second or two it's definitely worth exploring. I so think that 135 for 30min rate 20 piece is a bit high, unless you're either able to complete this with a low drive speed or have a specific goal with the session that does not involve quickness. I've found it is critical to maintain a fast leg drive when training so that when you perform at high rates (especially on the water) your legs are trained to move fast enough to connect to the load quickly and efficiently. If you don't lower your drag in training then you will probably end up slowing down the drive speed to maintain a sustainable training pace, which is not desirable. I generally go about 15-30 lower than race drag for UT2, 15-20 lower for UT1, 5-10 lower for AT, and 0-10 lower for TR. Anything at race pace or faster I'll just race drag. This is all assuming your are training for middle distance or above. Spring training (1 min or shorter) is an entirely different ball game.

[@johncasey8622]

@@TravisGardner thanks for that response Travis. Il be experimenting with it fir sure now ,and hopefully you won't mind me asking one more question about my rig of 159 span, 88 inboard and 288 length. Does it sound right to you ? Thanks again for the info. I'm wondering if a lighter rig would be smarter for a higher racing cadence over a 2k and 1k . Been training lower rates and power per stroke so far but about to bring paces up so am interested in your thoughts on it.

[@TravisGardner]

Hi John, those are pretty standard rig numbers if you are using standard smoothie blade. A good gauge of rig is "can you sprint?" If you can't shift up in the last 200 then you may be rigged heavy. Same if you always have a fast start and fade in the body. This is a sign that you are rigged heavy and benefit when fresh but suffer because you can't maintain an efficient base rate. Rig is so incredibly individual though I couldn't just recommend numbers. At your level I'd say what feels best or what is most comfortable is probably best. Objective measurement is so difficult in our sport so 99.9% of us need to trust our instincts in this regard. In general for your size I'd probably stay between 88 and 90 for inboard, 158 and 161 for span, and 158-201 for outboard. Think about inboard and span as your mechanical preference, and outboard for load. Nail down the mechanics first then find your preferred gear. Don't be afraid to experiment with heights as well. Personally I prefer to rig high, especially in the single. Shaft stiffness is also very important. I'd stay with standard for racing, that or maybe even soft for training. Once your 2k is closer to the 6 min range maybe you can play with a stiff oar for racing, but I wouldn't use that for training at all. If you want to dive a bit deeper just setup a consult at gtsrowing.com and we can talk one on one.

[@titussips8733]

Thanks for the video. Very educational. What are your views on using the erg for strength training and how would that change damper settings?

[@TravisGardner]

In general I would not suggest using the erg for strength training but perhaps I am imagining something different than what you are intending. Can you be more specific with what your goal is?

[@titussips8733]

Power endurance I guess. The thing is that I see other coaches have their athletes do erging sessions with plus 50 drag factors to gain strength. Plus I saw Eric Murray in his channel put forward a few videos with power strokes as the main ingredient where he would do either longer intervals of 5 to 10 mins in a 20-22 rate or shorter intervals in about 30 rate, all with a drag factor of plus 40 or 50 of what you would normally have. Eric calls it resistance training.

[@TravisGardner]

@@titussips8733 I've never used the erg in this way but would be curious to learn more about Eric's experience. Generally if I want to develop power I will use lower stroke rates at high pressures. For example, I may hold AT splits at a 22-24 whereas I would hold the same splits at 26-28 for a more traditional AT interval. This type of work is fairly common during my base building training phases. I don't think kicking the drag factor up for long periods is a good approach, because drive time is critical for good rowing technique (especially if you are an on the water rower) and high drags are going to slow down your drive time significantly. I'm a firm believer that pure strength is best developed with barbells/dumbbells.

[@janrunegilde1074]

Hi ,im a 60 year old skierger/cross country skier.i double pole A LOT on skies. I wonder what drag factor i should use on the skierg .i have done damper 10 and DF 140-150 on all distances from 500 to marathon for a couple of years but recently found out i gone way to heavy. i tried damper 7/8 on the 2000 and got better PB by doing that. My PB s are : 2000: 6.53, 5000: 18.08, 10 k:37.18 and Marathon : 2.47 (world rec for 60+) im 60 years, 85 kg and 1.88 tall

[@TravisGardner]

I am not familiar with the ski erg or cross country skiing in general.

[@Rugbymaniac95]

Hi Travis, I found this really helpful. I was just wondering how you would adjust your drag for an AT kind of intensity effort, but where the rate I still low. Like a 30r20 style workout. Thanks, J

[@Rugbymaniac95]

If it helps, I’m 188cm, 78kg and a 6:30 2k

[@TravisGardner]

hi Jack, 30r20 isn't a session I would use for AT so my insight is limited. Actually, AT can be fairly accurately described as what you (Jack specifically, not some non-6:30 2k person reading this) can hold for an open rate, max effort 30 minute test. That being said, I wouldn't suggest going above your race drag for any king of standard training session, so if you need to do 30r20 because a coach has assigned it, just put it at your race drag and have at it. As for how I WOULD train AT, I'd use r22-26 for most people and r24-28 for non-elite, high performance rowers. Drag would be at or up to 6 below race drag (I personally like to increase drag slightly as I move through an anaerobic session, so I might start 6 below and finish at). Total volume would be about the same as a UT1 session, but split into intervals.

[@Rugbymaniac95]

Thanks Travis, this is really helpful. I have done almost all of my training in the c2 at 120 drag (for all intensities). I’m looking forward to playing around with much lower drags and keeping the fast leg drive. Like you said in the video, I can only see this being helpful in the boat 👍

[@TravisGardner]

@@Rugbymaniac95 Happy to help Jack. 120 is a good place for where you are at. Personally I like to be 25-35 under for UT2, 15-25 under for UT1, 0-10 under for AT, and 0-8 under for TR. Anything faster than race pace I prefer to rely on spm for additional traction rather than drag. Do be careful making large decreases at once, your back may get tender if you have any inefficiencies in your power transfer from feet to handle. Maybe reduce by 5-10 at first, and then another 5 each month after that until you are where you get the most benefit.

[@Bherwig1]

Travis, Really enjoyed the DF overview as I am fairly new to rowing after 30+ years of bike racing on the road, track and dirt. I am 6,1" and 190 lbs with a 34 inch inseam. I have been rowing longer distance since I was an endurance athlete and tend to row 10-15K each workout. I vary my stroke rate and finish a 10K in 42 minutes. My DF is 130 and and average watts about 172 watts. I have been rowing consistently for the last 3 1/2 months and am seeing my times get better weekly as well as my weight is coming down. Per your video I am under the impression that I should drop my DF to 115 to reach a better efficiency of stroke for longer distance. Any recommendations would be appreciated and thanks!

[@TravisGardner]

hi Bill, if you will be rowing on the water the need for a lower drag factor is far more important. Though even for indoor rowers there is great benefit to developing the aerobic systems at lower drag factors, especially if you have the technical efficiency to take advantage of higher rates when the time comes. Given your stats I'd advise you to move the drag down between 90-100 for your long rows, though I do not recommend lowering the drag by more than 5 every 2-4 weeks until you get into that range. Note that your anaerobic drags will be a bit closer to your time trial drag (assuming mid distance events), which I'd estimate between 115 and 120 for you. There is rarely a need to train with a drag higher than your race drag.

[@wogo1967]

Hi Travis. In one of your videos, I think it’s this one, you mention a drive time of 0.7s. We’re you suggesting that the drive should not be above 0.7s? I ask this because I’ve noted that my drive time is typically 0.6 or just below (0.58). In fact I’m unable to achieve 0.7s. I’m therefore wondering if my DF should increase to the point were the drive time is 0.7s. Having said that I’m comfortable with the DF I’m using and vary it as you have advised, to good affect. I’m already seeing improvements in my UT2 sessions (after taking onboard advice from your other videos) and today reduced my split compared to last week by 1 second for a 60 minute session. It’s great to finally make some progress. Thanks again, Rich.

[@TravisGardner]

Hi Rich, thanks for comment and questions. Wonderful to hear that your UT2 is improving! .7 seconds is a good marker for on the water though I do find drive times to be a little lower on the indoor rower (but not by much). I have not spent enough time observing this to speak as definitively about it as I would for other topics (perhaps in another couple years), but I am confident saying that .6 or .58 is a bit low for UT2. What is a typical drag factor, split, and spm for when you are seeing these drive times? Also, what is your height and pant leg size? If you have any video of you rowing uploaded somewhere I'd be happy to take a look and offer input. You are of course always welcome to setup a video consult through gtsrowing.com if you want some more extensive insights :)

[@wogo1967]

Thanks for the reply Travis. I’m 5’10” LW with an inside leg of about 32”. My race DF is 115. My recent UT2 DF was 100, S/R 18 to 19 at at a split of 2:10 to 2:09. Attempts to make my stroke longer had little affect. The best I could manage provided a drive time of 0.65. I felt that I was overreaching if that makes sense and it didn’t improve my split. During the warm up for my last session I did monitor myself using video, but didn’t record. And it looked ok, as far as I could tell, when compared to other footage I’ve recently viewed of other rowers with good technique. From what I’ve read elsewhere, the drive time is the time taken for the flywheel to accelerate. Hence the reason I wondered if the DF I am using is on the low side. It might be that for my height I have short legs :)

[@TravisGardner]

@@wogo1967 Hi Rich, the drag factors that you are using are within an appropriate range and if anything I would suggest experimenting with slightly lower settings. However that would go against trying to bring your drive time up. Without actually seeing you row, my guess would be that there is a loss of connection in the drive that is allowing you to move through the sequence without fully engaging the load. DM me on Insta @gtsrowing with a video and I'll take a look. Snap a pic of your power curve too as that would give some more insight to what is going on.

[@sandysturrock8910]

Hi Travis. Early stages of rowing for me. 6' tall,103 kg and fairly athletic build despite being 49 yrs old. My 2k time is 7.25, 10k is 39.30 . Drag factor up till now has been 125-130. Stroke rate for 2k was 28-30. Thoughts?

[@TravisGardner]

Hi Sandy, thanks for reaching out. Specific recommendations would be more accurately assigned if I was familiar with your technical abilities, though in general I'd suggest bringing the drag factor down into the 110 range for testing and experiment with lower for aerobic training sessions. Always happy to take a look a short vids and offer suggestions if you want to DM me on Instagram @gtsrowing

[@swanagediverdan]

Hey Travis. Really enjoying your vlogs. Would you say use the lowest drag factor you can to achieve the same splits is the best idea? If so how does this affect the muscular endurance side of things and performance on the water?

[@swanagediverdan]

Eg. If I'm doing a ut1 session at 20spm for 30 mins and I can achieve the same split at a 3 as a 5 should I go with the 3?

[@TravisGardner]

Thanks for the question. This is actually in line with the subject I was thinking about covering for my next video. First, be sure you are using the drag factor and not the damper setting to determine your gearing. The latter is highly variable between machines and over time. To the point of your question, no, you don't want to go as low as you can. You can go too low with your gearing as well as too high. You do not want to spin your wheels any more than pound a heavy load. Both will cause issues along the chain of power transfer (usually lower back). You have to find a balance between a quick leg drive and load from which you can suspend your weight. Also remember, you can change the load on the water with the gearing on your pin and oars. When people talk about the "feel" of rowing on the water as if a single damper setting can emulate it, they are being overly simplistic.

[@swanagediverdan]

So you are saying find the sweet spot for the area you are training. Take into consideration muscular fatigue from your days work and don't be afraid to adjust the damper to suit. I'm a scaffolder and row fixed seat with pins and leathers.

[@bendtheoar839]

Cheers again for the interesting video and the input! I was remembering you video, about that elite athletes are higher in the stroke rates (20-22). And ambitious competitors which are not elite should go with 18 Because of the power per stroke. Doesn‘t that contradict lowering the damper setting? I am switching around drag a bit. For example: SS 120-125 and 500m sprints around 130-135. I am still trying to figure out whats right. Apart from that. How would you recommend to measure leg speed? Not sure if the erg log can do that. I watched that alomg with your other video: could you also elaborate on what other effects can be reached by different drag factor settings for example in SS. I remember in my first program everything was done at around 130-135 :D For context: 26, male, 188 cm. ( long legs and arms), 94 kg, 2k: no clue (guess 6:20-6:35)

[@TravisGardner]

Great questions. So the most important thing here is the clarify what I'm talking about when I say power per stoke. I am using "power" in the strength training sense, i.e. the ability to overcome resistance in the shortest period of time. Time is the most important factor here. As a rower you must be careful not to spend too much time training with a slow drive time or your muscles will not be prepared for the quickness required for testing/racing. Using a higher drag factor would be like training to race a gig or recreational hull. A racing shell is very narrow to minimize drag created by the water on the hull, so resistance is relatively low and quickness is critical for maintaining boat speed. If you are an indoor rower I still think quickness is important, but rate is a more important contributor to speed than length or power, and you cannot get rate up with a heavier than ideal resistance (drag factor). The ErgData app has drive time as one of the available data points and I'd definitely suggest using it if you have not previously. If your drive times are drifting above .7 then that may be a good sign that your drag factor is too high. You can also monitor the power curve and if you are getting a relatively flat rise rather than a high, symmetrical parabola then you should try lowering your damper/drag. I would only recommend drag factors in the 130-135 range for athletes that are in the 5:55 and below range for 2k. Maybe also for someone slightly slower but much shorter than the average athlete producing that level of power output.

[@bendtheoar839]

Travis Gardner thanks for the answer. Will have a look!

[@davidmcelhaney6922]

Great video! I’m a 57 year old male pulling about a 7’20” on 2k. I have a 34 inch inseam. My df is about 116. Based on this video, should I lower the setting?

[@TravisGardner]

110 may be more appropriate for testing 2000 meters but everyone is different. Experiment with it a bit when doing intervals at race pace. If you are pacing well but struggle to maintain drive speed towards the end of your pieces or cannot shift up in rate effectively (i.e. split goes down when spm goes up), then you are probably geared too heavy.

[@svenhinrichsen458]

For me the DF depends on the stroke rate I wanna row...and that depends on the distance. To be honest, the DF just defines how fast the flywheel braks down its speed between the strokes.

[@Robert.E.Edmondson]

Here is a question, for which there seems to be no publicly known answer: For competitors in indoor rowing competitions, to what accuracy does the monitor compensate for the various drag settings used by competitors, and thereby maintain the desired level playing field? Concept 2 was granted a patent on the "self-calibrating monitor" in 1989 (now expired). The patent makes no claims about the accuracy of compensation for various drag settings, only that such compensation takes place. To my knowledge, Concept 2 has published no testing data on this, nor is there any published data regarding accuracy of drag factor correction from any independent testing facility. It is an odd situation. Indoor Rowing Competitions have recently been added as a category in the World Games. All of the rankings, times, wins and losses, depend on the how accurately the monitor compensates for various drag settings used by the various competitors, but that accuracy seems to be a mystery. By comparison, it probably would not be difficult to learn the accuracy of the timers used in Olympic events. I recently asked this question on the C2 Forum, on Concept 2's website. Obviously it is a taboo question. The C2 Forum monitor immediately locked the thread.

[@TravisGardner]

I would put my confidence in it. In 20 years I've never seen anything that would hint one drag is "better" than another from a software perspective. Now, if you change drag in the middle of the piece that will cause an anomaly, but C2 does not let you change damper mid race specifically for that reason. Interesting about the C2 thread. I can't speak to their motivations but it certainly raises suspicion.

[@Robert.E.Edmondson]

@@TravisGardner If the monitor accurately compensates for drag then why would a change in damper setting mid-race cause an anomaly? If I am producing x amount of power (watts) at one drag setting that will carry me y number of meters. If I change the drag setting and continue to produce the same x watts that should still carry me the same y number of meters. That's a level playing field. Put another way: If all competitors in a race have different drag settings, and they all do work at the same rate (power output) throughout the race, the race should be a tie if the monitors are accurately compensating for drag. I see the only way to test this is to eliminate the human performance variable with a mechanical test rig that would repeatedly pull the handle with any given force and speed (measured independent of the monitor, using a strain gauge and velocimeter), for an accurate and repeatable power output (Power=Force X Velocity). At the lowest drag setting and at a given test rig power output, the monitor readout of watts and time/500M would be recorded. Then the damper would be moved an increment to increase the drag, and the test repeated with the same power output from the test rig, the monitor readouts again recorded, and so on, repeating this at increments of damper setting throughout the entire setting range. If monitor compensation for drag is 100% accurate, the monitor readouts should not change as the damper is moved in increments throughout its range. To my knowledge, no such test has ever been done. After some 30 years of the "self-calibrating" monitor being used in indoor rowing competitions, surely it is appropriate to ask, why hasn't such a test been done?

[@TravisGardner]

@@Robert.E.Edmondson I'd imagine the answer is simply interest and funding. Concept 2 is an incredible company in many respects (their customer service for example is peerless) but there are also areas they do not place much energy. For example I set some lightweight age group World Records for 100 meters and one minute earlier this year. When I reached out to C2 about how they wanted me to confirm my weight, they said it was on the honor system. So clearly they can improve in more ways than one when it comes to verifying performance standards. As to your first paragraph, I am no engineer but I believe it is because the machine measures the true damper setting and then calculates the 500 meter split based on that measurement. There is a lag time of a couple strokes when recalibrating after large changes in damper setting, so an athlete can get in a couple strokes accelerating the flywheel much faster with less resistance than the monitor can recognize the lower air intake. For those moments, the machine is calculating the split based on the actual speed of the flywheel and an artificially high drag factor.

[@torsionality]

@@Robert.E.Edmondson The no damper change in a race rule goes back to the old Model A ergs that had the bike speedometer PM. Those you could manipulate by messing with the damper. Now, the PM can compensate for it, but the rule is already on the books. The back of the flywheel has 3 magnets in it, which is what the pickup sensor reads, it is measuring flywheel speed. The real assumption here is that C2 is doing a.good job making sure every flywheel is the same weight and therefore has the same inertia. Since my erg has balancing clips on the flywheel like a car wheel, they're clearly compensating for that at some point. So,.if the flywheels are equal,.then there are two factors: the drag factor and the power applied. You can calculate drag factor easily with the inertia and speed, and that lets you solve for power applied. Now, is 200W on the Concept2 actually 200W? Almost doesn't matter, since the machines will be precise (uniform flywheel weight, drag factor calculation), and accurately is irrelevant for comparing machine to machine.

[@Robert.E.Edmondson]

@@torsionality I accept the inertial equivalence of the flywheels. I also accept that it doesn't matter if 200W is actually 200W. From my recent interest in this subject, I uncovered a 2006 paper in the Int. Journal of Sports Medicine. It describes a test in which force and velocity sensors were affixed to the C2 handle, and the resulting direct measurement of power was compared to the power displayed on the monitor screen. It was found that on average, the readout display showed 25W lower than the actual power applied to the handle, but that there was an accurate correlation at all power levels, so, as you write, it would not affect race outcomes. Nevertheless, in this peer reviewed paper, it was accepted that direct measurement of force and velocity at the handle to determine power was inherently a more reliable means than via internal calculations in the monitor derived from angular velocity, rotational inertia, and flywheel deceleration, and the use of the former as a gauge for the accuracy of the latter was not challenged. It follows that, in the same manner, the accuracy of the drag compensation could be tested - via comparison of direct measurement of power taken at he handle to the calculated drag compensation of the monitor over the entire range of damper settings. Interestingly, and related to this, I also found a very recent paper (June 9, 2020) published in the Journal of Biomechanics. Its title: "The Mechanical Rower: Construction, validity, and reliability of a test rig for wind braked rowing ergometers". Only the Abstract is available on-line, but gleaned from it, the authors have built a sophisticated mechanical test rig that can duplicate the force curve of a rowing athlete, which, since human performance variables have been eliminated, can be used to test the accuracy of force curve displays on rowing ergometer monitors, and presumably could also be used to test the accuracy of monitor calculated drag compensation throughout the damper setting range. So possibly, a definitive answer to this question will soon be known.