How to use everything in TRAKTOR KONTROL S4 (Part 1: Beginner) | Native Instruments

Watch as TRAKTOR pro Mike Henderson, also known as ENDO, takes you through part 1 of a TRAKTOR KONTROL S4 masterclass for professional and aspiring DJs. By the end of this tutorial, you’ll have a better understanding of how to use the industry-leading DJ software and some of the hardware’s key features, including how to browse tracks, sync tracks, beatmatch, record sets, and much more.
Whether you’re just starting your DJ journey or you’re a seasoned professional, there’s something for everyone in this video. Stay tuned stay tuned for more episodes!
Discover TRAKTOR KONTROL S4:
www.native-instruments.com/en...
Learn more about TRAKTOR in the complete user manual: www.native-instruments.com/en...
Browse all versions of TRAKTOR and TRAKTOR gear: www.native-instruments.com/en...
Discover TRAKTOR Pro Plus: www.native-instruments.com/en...
Setting up your Mac or Windows computer for optimal DJ-ing with Traktor:support.native-instruments.co...
Using Traktor with a touchbar MacBook Pro: support.native-instruments.co...
Chapters
00:00 Intro
01:46 CHAPTER 1: Installation and connections
03:39 S4 Hardware Overview (Mixer, Decks, Pads)
05:40 Output section
06:45 CHAPTER 2: TRAKTOR Software
07:37 Registration, Firmware and Software
11:01 Powering-on the S4 and Traktor
13:29 Troubleshooting
14:33 Calibrating the S4
16:47 Traktor Overview
18:54 CHAPTER 3: Browser
21:58 Importing and organizing songs
26:27 Smart playlists
28:53 Color coding and ratings
30:37 Metadata
32:55 Beatport integration
36:48 Advanced browser features
38:55 Playing a track
42:29 Jogwheel modes
43:46 CHAPTER 4: Mixer
48:43 Configuring the Traktor mixer
50:59 Using Traktor as an audio interface
52:12 Outro
#NativeInstruments #LearnToDJ #Traktor #DJController #HowToDJ
Tracklisting:
13:17 - Aubrey Fry - Tyrant (Four Candles Remix) [Bedrock Records]
Link: bedrockrecords.bandcamp.com/t...
40:06 - Zoo Brazil - The Feeling [Bedrock Records]
Link: bedrockrecords.bandcamp.com/t...
47:59 - Island Hill - Stella [Bedrock Records]
Link: bedrockrecords.bandcamp.com/t...
51:51 - Dee Montero, Island Hill - Yanhanshan [Bedrock Records]
Link: bedrockrecords.bandcamp.com/t...
Wardrobe provided by re:VOLVER (www.revolveribiza.com)
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For more than 25 years, Native Instruments has been at the heart of musical innovation. We’ve created communities, pushed technological boundaries, and opened new creative horizons for amateurs and professionals alike. Today, driven by our mission to make music creation more inclusive and accessible, NI’s hardware, software, and services including MASCHINE, TRAKTOR, and KOMPLETE bundles, provide fully-integrated solutions for musicians, producers, and DJs of all genres and levels of experience.
For more info, visit our website: www.native-instruments.com/?u...

[@kcirenim]

Finally a solid video from native instruments on Traktor! THANK YOU!!!!

[@NativeInstruments]

Hope you like it 🔥

[@deadrockmusic]

@@NativeInstrumentsdefinitely, thank you, Endo’s videos rule and this series specifically just got me to buy an S4 mk3 and go all-in on Traktor for DJing.

[@NativeInstruments]

So happy to hear that! @@deadrockmusic

[@itsnotch64]

The fact that I JUST bought an S4 and then this video drops is CRAZY!

[@NativeInstruments]

Perfect timing 😎

[@thelaibon]

Gotta say , man, you did a great job. Excellent instructor

[@GroundBeatDe]

Hi, i was a traktor user for many years, i like the interface, the midi configuration, the SOUND and the effects... but without elastic beatgrids, granular quantization (1/16 beats) and now stems....its a little complicated not to fall in love with serato, vdj or djay pro. Ive changed to serato 2 weeks ago, mainly for this reason (besides, everybody at the clubs is playing with serato). I know, 90% of the djs dont play at clubs, but they see what we are using at the clubs or festivals, so dont forget us. Of course there is no new hardware...the s4 is really a weapon (the haptic feedback its a little anoying when scratching, but it can be customized without it, the xfader sucks, but it can be upgraded - innofader would be great and you have done this before with the z2). The jogs are a little small for scratching, but they work. I have stoped waiting (many years of waiting) for NI to realease at least the beatgrids and the quantization, thats why i changed to serato (totally heart broken), but i think NI its more focused on sound packs/maschine stuff than in new dj hardware. Yeah, the s4 its enough for electronic music, but for open format djs...the software its the limiting factor. BTW every mapped jogwheel sucks if it isnt from NI hardware. The old forums where great, ton of information, also the support its a little slow (maybe i had bad luck -first question in many years). Integrating hardware from rane and others would be great , but i think this is away from NI scope. Also, tired to do crazy mappings with all the modifiers. The new logo looks like AI mixed with Nasa :D. I wouldnt have released the new image without new hardware or important software upgrades. The s4 has of course the old logo...that doesnt look well. Hope that my fellow Germans are not doing any marketing stuff, because we are not to good at that. We let the quality speaks for itself, but nowadays thats it not enough. Hope that NI can cope with the other software competitors regarding software features and then, i ll switched back to traktor. Good luck in the future! :D.

[@kkmusic607]

Thank you for this video series! I've been using Traktor for 3 years now and still picked up two super valuable features that I didn't know about. I'm looking forward to more tutorials.

[@RaZoRwIrE29]

Thank you for this! Great in-depth guide!

[@terrydunlin]

Yess!! Finally a full and in depth tutorial can’t wait for parts 2 and 3?

[@puresoundstudios]

Thank you so much for initiating this series. Time for a refresh!

[@littlefela6889]

Genuinly great stuff making this. Going to be able to cite this for anyone needing troublshooting help. Glad NI is working on the new features to come. Traktors still amazing even with its faults compared to some of the competition

[@tomimarttila]

Nice to see this thorough tutorial from NI! Great work NI and Endo 👍🏻

[@red_nick]

I'm very glad it shows those latency guides, they're very useful

[@PrajyotMeshram]

about time!!! I copped my s4 around 2 years back and I've minimally used it till now. now we are using it - using it!

[@CREATEEDUCATEINSPIRE]

Endo the LEGEND, the man behind them all. Love it man.

[@Quais32]

I just ordered one of these and will be coming back to these videos. Thank you! I'm so friggin excited!

[@NativeInstruments]

Have fun!

[@dara1d3r]

Awesome!Thank you!Waiting for more!

[@DelmarBrowne]

Thanks so much for coming back ENDO with this training.

[@DeeJayEndo]

My pleasure. Thank you!

[@nico.videomaker]

Well done! Now I’m waiting for the part 2 👏🏻🔥

[@nil4309]

thanks so much for this NI! great video really well produced

[@xandersijperda7213]

Thank you for this step by step tutorial. It's really helpful!

[@SenzuDeano]

This is exactly what i needed. Thank you Native Instruments and thank you Endo

[@DeeJayEndo]

You're welcome. :) Thanks for watching!

[@milotxh]

The only video that deserve real likes u are truly a hero thank u

[@DeeJayEndo]

🙏🙏

[@h.m.sanchez4934]

Still got my Traktor Kontrol S4 and love it

[@DYVNbeats]

This was awesome. Got me to finally dust off the ol’ S2 Mk3 and give it a shot!

[@simonpawlin163]

These are great tutorials and a lot of your insights are fundamentals that can be applied to any controller or software not just traktor pro 3 or the S4.

[@DeeJayEndo]

Thank you! 🙏

[@andrewsun4385]

Awesome!!!❤❤

[@Cywerker]

Awesome 😎

[@cameronpatrickscott]

Geek out, love it thanks a lot, reconvening after a loong busmans holiday, off to intermediate school.

[@raymclarnon1437]

Looking forward to the next tutorial as I'm having issues with my turntables, which I'm sure you'll cover in depth.

[@BeauTylerMakesMusic]

Yes! Thank you for this video!

[@Vandetta333]

Cannot wait to get this

[@valleysofneptune]

Finally….I need this

[@SeattleDjs]

Good to see Endo!

[@DeeJayEndo]

Thank you! 👋👋 It's good to be back. :)

[@nighttime9539]

Very informative.

[@iZotopeOfficial]

🔊🔊🔊

[@BeauTylerMakesMusic]

Also, the moment this guy said “let’s start from scratch… get it?” I knew I liked him. Dad jokes for the win! 😂

[@DJeeyYeo]

All I want from Traktor is real time stems and a new dj controller that can handle it, it's been a long time since we don't have a new hardware from native instruments, I love Traktor so much but the competition is one step ahead

[@NativeInstruments]

Stay tuned for more to come in 2023, we think you'll like what you'll see. 😎

[@DJeeyYeo]

@NativeInstruments i hope so, it's been a while and i can't wait to see it

[@DJWIKKI]

I’m returning my Rane 4 now

[@cesard09]

@@DJWIKKI lol

[@ktrlzedMusic]

@@NativeInstruments

[@mefflecakes]

Hot Damn! great job NI!

[@panrys]

Podziękowania również z Polski 😀

[@erwingouw3162]

WoW!

[@oldnic]

🔥🔥🔥

[@marknasse3781]

coming in hard with that intro. mentor me haha

[@einekleineente1]

I love to see NI being active again! On the other hand this Video also means there is no new controller on the Horizont 😢

[@NativeInstruments]

Something's brewing 🤫

[@JamesMesidor]

nice

[@djopel245]

Love it!! Can you make one for Maschine Jam and Kontrol S8? You are so detailed and Fantastic!!!🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🤩🤩

[@DeeJayEndo]

Thank you so much! I actually started a series on the S8 on the Dubspot channel, but only part 1 got recorded. There is still a lot of information in there. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGakn5JnoMaHpKc&ab_channel=Dubspot The S8 is discontinued now unfortunately but still a great controller.

[@bigdee8921]

The good: Great tutorial and Love’d Traktor since my first lesson from you at Dubspot NYC in 2012. The bad: why does Traktor not have Tidal like all other dj apps?

[@MadushaniKaushalya-oy6ic]

I love u 😅 really ❤

[@DeeJayEndo]

🫶

[@maximaeventosibague]

Saludos excelente la información de la Traktor S4 MK3 pero solo falta que la publiquen igualmente en español...

[@HilbertSpacersson]

For me Native Access already installed all the drivers for most common controllers. (In fact I always remove those I don't need later with hibit uninstaller for less cluttered selection window in the audio settings of traktor and ableton live)

[@BlakkaBuba]

11.39 minutes: audio devices, Tidal/Spotify 🤗

[@peladoclaus]

Tracktor is still the best software

[@elvisjaggerabduljabbar5750]

How could I ask a better question in the google search engine to obtain a more accurate search or what websites do you recommend to find a slightly more technical and specialized review on a specific producer or one of his tracks?

[@CamiloRibeiro]

Amazingly done! When you say Apple Music library around 20 min, I and wondering if by that you meant iTunes purchased music or any track from Apple Music. I have tired and did not manage to import Apple Music tracks that I did not buy. Thanks.

[@DeeJayEndo]

I'm talking about the app "Music" (formerly iTunes), which I am only using as a music collection management software for tracks I bought/have downloaded. Nothing to do with the streaming platform "Apple Music". You can't play Apple Music streaming files in Traktor as of now. However, there is a program called Soundiiz that will convert your Apple Music playlists to Beatport or Beatsource LINK, which you can then play in Traktor. I use it to convert my Spotify playlists to Beatport LINK. It works great and is synchronized every day.

[@djloomy]

Nice video! But i need a new Kontrol S8 Mk2...also i need a Traktor version... , a version in which the waveforms of the decks do not freeze and after this, it loses the sound and remains totally frozen and you have to restart traktor by force... this happens from version 3.7 and also in the last 3.9. (on 3.6.1 works flawless) I have macbook M1 pro with Monterrey 12.6.2 Thank you.

[@NativeInstruments]

That doesn't sound right! Feel free to get in touch with our Traktor support team directly so we can help with troubleshooting your problems. You can contact us through the form over here: bit.ly/n1trakt

[@entyce66]

Great tutorial hey what machines are behind you

[@DeeJayEndo]

Thank you! The controllers behind me are the TRAKTOR KONTROL S8, TRAKTOR KONTROL D2 and TRAKTOR KONTROL S5

[@zanerasmussen8889]

@Native Instruments - the S8 is superior is every way to the S4. What are your plans for a new S8 type controller? Possibly a full standalone version? I cannot believe NI wouldn’t be onboard with creating one since early 2015.

[@NativeInstruments]

Can't share much but make sure to keep an eye out 👀

[@zanerasmussen8889]

@@NativeInstruments Oh I'm watching and saving my pennies!

[@stephenriddle2784]

Is that a special edition of the S8 in the background on the right? Looks like a titanium grey version or something ...

[@VaRoland]

Hello, after four years of existence, are there any plans to replace the S4 MK3 in the near future? I've had one for 1 month and I'd like to know if it's planned, as on the Pioneer ddj flx-10, to have two USB inputs to connect two laptops, so that in the event of a bug, you can switch to the other computer. If I may say so, I think it's a pity that on the left-hand player, the tempo fader has been placed on the right-hand side of the player, because it's too close to the C & A channel faders, and on several occasions I've inadvertently accelerated the speed. As for the rest, there's a very nice evolution compared to the S4MKII. Thanks for your answers.

[@NativeInstruments]

Thanks for taking the time to share your feedback with us! We can't share much about a new hardware - all we can say is keep an eye out 🤐

[@codecdj]

How long will it be before the second part drops? I've had my s4 mk3 for a year now but not really dived into the full scale of the kontroller just yet. Would definitely love to though to make full use of it!

[@NativeInstruments]

Part 2 is coming soonish. Make sure to subscribe to our channel so you're the first to know when it drops 😉

[@codecdj]

@@NativeInstruments already subscribed and patiently waiting!

[@HenriSoetaert]

Hi! Maybe I missed this, but how do you get your track decks to count to 8 bars? I can't seem to find where I can change it. So at 42:05 you can see below the BPM that you are at 12.8.4 of the track (so the 12th group of 8 bars, the last beat in that group of 8 bars). Mine only shows groups of 4 bars. Thanks!

[@DeeJayEndo]

Preferences > Track Decks > "Beats" (that's the Beat Counter)

[@Lang_Film]

how to active “traktor kontrol s5” to this kind of“vegas mode” like in this video，i know holding "S&Q" and power on . but it is different , i wanna this "auto show "mode

[@Lang_Film]

@@NativeInstruments The NI official website told me to press and hold the two buttons "S + Q" first, and then turn it on. But the "vegas" mode entered in this way is completely different from the S8, S5, and D2 shown in this teaching video. I need a "vegas" mode of this fully automatic animation loop.

[@DJOPELISHERE]

Can you make a video on the Maschine 2.5 and Maschine Jam.

[@NativeInstruments]

There you go: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j5S2nZiVeN6jsMk ✌️

[@DJWIKKI]

Stems separation please

[@DeeJayEndo]

Stay tuned for more! 🥦

[@DJOPELISHERE]

How do you use the F2 and F4 in the FX dials? How do change the velocity if the Stems on the Traktor S4 MK3.🎉🎉

[@DeeJayEndo]

What do you mean F2 and F4? STEMS don't have any velocity control.

[@sapiotone]

I really wish the jog wheel LED illumination was customizable. The big illumination with fading trails really doesn't work for me

[@djmasterchef]

Hi if I'm using the S4 MK3 with a amp with phono connections in the back where do I put in back of S4 MK3 thanks

[@MultiLolgasm]

Why is it not possible to calibrate the gain knobs? My s4 came with sightly out of alignment gain knobs, wasn't enough of a problem to warrant an RMA, but it seems weird that it's not possible

[@azido]

I don't seem to have a Preparation Playlist in Traktor Pro 3 - is it a Pro Plus exclusive feature?

[@DeeJayEndo]

You can make any Traktor playlist a preparation list by right / ctrl clicking on it and choosing "Select as Preparation List." If you accidentally deleted the preparation playlist you can just make a new playlist and name it "Preparation" and then select it as your Preparation List.

[@robertsturkey7656]

Any way to get the multi colored waveform to display on the screens of the S4 MK3?

[@DeeJayEndo]

There are some screen hacks out there that work for this, but I wouldn't personally recommend them since they can cause issues when you have to upgrade or other issues. They do exist though. Just look up Traktor Kontrol S4 screen hacks.

[@Q-432hz]

Can you have turntable mode on the s3 mk3? Can't seem to do a rewind spin back .

[@DeeJayEndo]

With the S3, you should be able to backspin the same way. It doesn't have motorized jog wheels and haptic feedback like the S4 does, but you should still be able to backspin with no problem. It's all in the wrists (and the fingers).

[@molyo6963]

How to use it with recordbox? If you give me a positive answer will be an instant by I am looking for this to have built in jogwheels 4 channel a line and a phono for my turntables, portable, and on recordbox as all the clubs

[@dxtrs_mnpltr]

Pioneer's Rekordbox library is so much more advanced than Traktor's. Traktor's feel like it's in the Palaeolithic in comparison unfortunately. It would be nice if NI integrated a feature that Pioneer has which allows you to match or pair tracks to other tracks which is super useful at specific moments of a set where the crowd is up and loving the vibe and you don't want to change the energy by choosing the wrong track. NI, if you're listening this one would be awesome to have in our arsenal

[@spacecy]

Hello! can you use both RCA and XLR outputs at the same time?

[@DeeJayEndo]

Yup!

[@czegocitrzeba]

Windows 11 driver problem with S4 MK3, not possible update firmware "please connect your device and rescan" but s4 IS conected

[@jorisalexander]

Endo / Native Instruments, HOW do I remove a playlist from my Playlist Favorites bar once I added a playlist I no longer require? There's no mention of this in the Manual, nor in this vid, nor anywhere I can find online. Would be GREATLY appreciated 🙏

[@DeeJayEndo]

You can't remove the playlist, you can only overwrite it with something else by dragging and dropping the name of a playlist or folder on top of the favorites playlist slot.

[@gabrielmacri9905]

I just got mine and I noticed that the Cue button does not behave as expected when in TT mode, is this normal? also if the tempo faders are set in Absolute Mode, in TT mode they actually behave as in Relative mode. The User Manual does not say anything about this differences when using TT mode.

[@DeeJayEndo]

Correct - the Cue button doesn’t work as it should in TT mode. That’s why I use Jog mode. I’m guessing they did that so it doesn’t burn out the motor by stopping and stopping so rapidly. About the Absolute Mode not behaving properly I’d have to check that but if you can reproduce it I’d write into support about it and send a video.

[@videocut7545]

Is there a once off pricing option?

[@DjSteveKing]

hi need help pls i just install traktor pro 3 but my s4 mk1 not detected to my traktor pro 3, need solution pls thanks

[@NativeInstruments]

Hey, feel free to reach out to our Traktor support team directly so we can help with troubleshooting your problems. You can contact us through the form over here 👉 bit.ly/n1trakt

[@bogdanazarov804]

how to work with a remix deck on s4 mk1?????

[@techhousemagic]

[@29djandy]

NI...Please update Resolution for all apps. It looks bad on Retina display

[@NativeInstruments]

Rest assured a HiDPI display for Traktor Pro 3 is in the works. ✌️

[@jherizs]

i have a dumb question but can’t seem to find this easily - would think it’s pretty basic functionality. there’s a key knob on the Traktor UI, but I can’t seem to easily map it onto the S4? Can you point me in the right direction of a guide or something - all i’ve managed to do so far is disable the play button somehow, and change the key of 1 out of 4 decks (am imagining one knob either side that changes the key of the selected deck). thanks in advance for any advice 🙏

[@NativeInstruments]

Hey, can you please contact our Traktor support team directly so we can take a closer look? You can get in touch with us through the form over here 👉 bit.ly/n1trakt

[@DeeJayEndo]

Shift + Loop will turn on / off key lock and shift + turning the loop encoder will adjust the pitch by semitones up or down for that deck.

[@jherizs]

@@DeeJayEndo super helpful thanks! from your directions I got shift + play to toggle key lock - still haven't managed to find the semitone adjust anywhere

[@DeeJayEndo]

@@jherizs It's actually SHIFT + LOOP ENCODER to turn key lock on and off. Holding SHIFT and turning the LOOP encoder will adjust the key by a semitone per click.

[@DjOsmanPC]

Buenos días, les escribo para decirles que la versión de Traktor 3.9 viene con demasiados fallos en todas las pantallas de los controladores D2, S5, S8 y S4MK3 , esperemos que el equipo de Traktor solucione este problema y que de una vez trabaje ya con los Stems, que es algo que se han olvidado y ojalá que sea para todos los usuarios al igual como antes y no con plus

[@NativeInstruments]

Hey, sorry to hear there are issues with the latest version of Traktor Pro 3. If you haven't already, please get in touch with our support team directly so we can take a closer look: bit.ly/n1trakt

Is the S8 discontinued? If so, why is it in the background?

[@DeeJayEndo]

Because it's pretty in Vegas mode! I like being surrounded by blinky lights.

[@theoamorianos3042]

If traktor say analysis lock when I click on it how do I unlock it thanks

[@DeeJayEndo]

Go to the Grid Panel under the decks in the Advanced Panel, click "Grid" then click the lock icon to lock/unlock analysis lock.

[@juangutierrez7849]

How can I disconnect the laptop usb from the s4? It seems to be lock, what can I do????

[@NativeInstruments]

Hey, can you please get in touch with our Traktor support team with more details? You can contact us through the form over here 👉 bit.ly/n1trakt

[@salimyusoof7111]

How do i set an album or playlist to auto play?

[@DeeJayEndo]

There is a Cruise Mode option (the horseshoe-looking icon in the upper right-hand side of the screen near the preferences) which will auto play the playlist. To use Cruise Mode, the playlist has to be a Traktor playlist though.

[@walasfilms]

GREAT controller but it is an enormous shame is doesn't have Loop in/out buttons! the most basic buttons after CUE and PLAY on a dj player

[@DeeJayEndo]

You could always MIDI Map those to two buttons you don't need / use.

[@bboymac84]

Will traktor get Stems?

[@sezjames2472]

Traktor software? Who on earth uses that. It looks good the controller but I wouldn't want to use it with Traktor as its been on ver 3 for over 5 years and the support looks non existent. Will this work with rekordbox or serato? Thanks

[@NativeInstruments]

Hey, we're constantly improving Traktor Pro 3 and just dropped a new release last month. ✌️ Note that we don't support the use of third-party software with our controllers, but you might be able to find a custom mapping as a workaround.

[@sezjames2472]

@@NativeInstruments thankyou for the reply, I would love to try out the S4 sometime as that looks really awesome, and good to know about the software updates sorry I didnt realise it was updated, thats great. Thankyou

[@maverick7873]

it's great but it's old, it's better wait for a new version for 2024

[@erwingouw3162]

Stems?

[@DeeJayEndo]

Stay tuned for the next episodes! 🥦

[@royorbit]

Uses a Pioneer mixer live though 😂😂😂

[@DeeJayEndo]

Yeah, I do use a Pioneer mixer when I play live. That's what the clubs have, and you can plug right into it with a USB cable and have all 4 decks routed in Traktor and the same kinds of controls I would have on the S4 but on the CDJs in HID Mode. And I use the S4 at afterparties or house parties. I'm a versatile DJ who uses all kinds of gear.

[@halbertcrocker]

My s4 doesnt look like this 😢

[@DeeJayEndo]

There are different models. You might have the S4 Mk1 or Mk2. This video is on the Mk3.

[@musickitchen4783]

s4 mk1 + mac (from 2020-now) = brick

[@demolitionkid2]

traktor is so much fun . i really hope you guys take your dj hardware more serious. stop making plastic toys .....use metal and make them individual things instead of one big item.....then i could buy a mixer and 4 decks instead of a mixer\deck and thats it .....

[@salvatorebaffa4440]

La qualità della s4 mk3 è scadente rispetto alla S8

[@Electra1038]

Do everything? Well let's do mixing from Apple Music..... No? Not working? Yeah, thougth so too... but hey you're the one said eveything is possible ... 🤣🤣🤣

[@pansa2395]

Native Instruments should be ashamed of letting it's true fanbase down...

[@stephenprince8064]

Promo'SM

[@xczed3778]

never use the traktor software it resets every settings every time you open it and it resets every songs beatgrid everytime you open it. If you want to train to be a professional dj someday i highly recommand you not buying traktor. their build quality is good but that's about it. everyone of their software is just unusable for a real musician

[@PaulChabot]

That's just not true. Yes there are some short comings, but for the price, it can really get you comfortable with djing. Also you don't even suggest an alternative and if you say Pioneer... Hah they have jumped the shark.