HOW TO: USED & Cheap Valence U27-12XP Lithium batteries. Repair, Communication & Software issues

[@jeremymichel3042]

Thank you thank you! I have the blue clear 5 pin rs485 and can’t get it to work. Best tutorial yet on this horribly complicated wiring and communication setup.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

It’s definitely not the easiest system to work out! Especially with different models of the same type of adapter can be hit or miss.

[@scooter313]

Thank you for sharing all of your work to help others. I am new to solar power and lifepo4 batteries. I just purchased (4) Valence U27-XP12 and discovered the difficulties of accessing the bms comms. I am thankful to have found your KZbin channel. Very helpful information. 😁👍 Cheers from USA.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

No problem at all. Enjoy the batteries! I hope you have been able to connect to them now

[@scooter313]

@@MispronouncedAdventuresI am ordering the adapter today. Without your video I wouldn't have known this was possible. I will let you know once I am able to connect to the software. Thank you

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Great, best of luck and if you have any issues which is haven’t covered then comment again And I’ll see if I can help figure it out

[@scooter313]

@@MispronouncedAdventures Hello again, can you tell me what the valence communications plugs are? I dont want to cut the existing plugs and need to order some. Thank you

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

AMP super seal / Tyco connector ( 5 pin version ) is the name of the connectors

[@johnkincaide7059]

Good video. Great to see the detailed individual battery BMS info.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

No problem. I found as these batteries were never really intended for consumers, more industry. that there is such limited knowledge about them all over the place so I tried to gather as much of that information I could find throughout the Internet, verifier as much as I could then make a video about it. To help others

[@johnkincaide7059]

@@MispronouncedAdventures - I have more questions, and please email me at [e-mail] .

[@techcity7866]

absolute star you are for making this video and helping so.many people.. 5☆☆☆☆☆

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

No problem, glad it was helpful

[@atorch4umbb]

Thanks, this has helped me. I built the connector, got the diag software installed with correct permissions. I think my problem is the data line diagrams I used showed straight through wiring which you said is not correct. I will try tomorrow and see if the laptop can find the batteries. Thanks again!

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

IThe wiring diagrams for the adapters can definitely be inconsistent in the ways they refer to which pin they called A and B for the data positive and Neg, sometimes it’s the same as valance sometimes it’s The opposite. Hope it all works for you

[@atorch4umbb]

@@MispronouncedAdventures The reason I'm doing all of this is my batteries stop taking a charge. I had let them sit for quite some time without using them. They both register about four volts but will not accept any charge. Both LEDs have stopped blinking. Any suggestion would be helpful. Thank you again.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Oh 4 volts is definitely not good but can be recoverable. If you have Facebook I’d recommend joining the group call “valence XP LiFePO4 battery user group” as there are definitely quite a few people on there with more knowledge than I do about extremely low voltage recovery. Definitely getting them connect to the computer would be a good idea. I think generally the advice are going to give you is an extremely low amp charge for a long time to slowly bring them back up.

[@atorch4umbb]

@@MispronouncedAdventures I switched the data lines and no change it still won't see the batteries. I have the same connector that you show for the usb and I did the amp myself painstakingly soldering and making sure I have full connectivity from one end to the next. The lights are all blinking madly on the connector when I ask it to locate either of the batteries but it comes back with battery can be located. Also both of my batteries are down at around 3.6 VDC. I went to the facebook page but found nothing that you didn't really cover except that charge rate comes into play when recharging them. I have gone to device manager and made sure that it is COM3 and set for 9600 Baud rate but am at a loss as to why I can't establish communication.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Hmm. I’m struggling to figure out what the issue could be. I wonder if potentially there isn’t enough voltage left in the battery to power the BMS ( so there isn’t anything for the computer to find it as it has no power ) I presume you’ve tested that the USB adapter is definitely supplying 5V. When you say they are not charging. I take it if you applied a charge to get battery and used a amp meter there would be no current passing through?

[@mannyfragoza9652]

i got 2 of the Valence U27-12XP im going to use your video as a guide to see if i can get the software to work.BTW i just viewed a youtuber with what appears to be that same lite blue UBS connector and his system seems to be working fine

[@mannyfragoza9652]

you can checkout Sprinter Shuttle video

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Hey, great batteries hope you find the video helpful. The little blue Usb adapter I’ve discovered when chatting through with other people that there are at least two versions of the same connector using that blue case one which does work another and which doesn’t

[@mannyfragoza9652]

@@MispronouncedAdventures ah very good are you still using the black case Valence batteries or have you upgraded to the puke green ones?

[@thomasle9055]

Hi, I like your videos a lot. I tried my but have am getting an error "battery not found" Do you have any idea what it may be?

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Wrong port or your adapter not working?

[@Adam-qr4jj]

Thank you for the great video

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

No problem. Hope it was helpful

[@billjohnson3344]

Helpful video. One subtle point that is noticed, and has come up on the diysolar forum also. In the first part of your video, you show the Valence 12.12 software and it has 5 tabs at the bottom (Battery Info, Event Log, Cal Constants, Batt Control, Batt System Info). Later in the video only 3 tabs are there, Cal Constants and Batt Control are missing. Do you know what makes the software display the extra tabs or not? How did you get the 5 tabs to display? Both the Cal Constants and Batt Control would be useful, but I only see the 3 tabs and not those. Thanks!

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Funny you should mention this. I don’t think I actually noticed it this in more own video as normally I only have three tabs but I have actually noticed it in someone else’s video I watched at one point and have committed asking the same question why they had five tabs. I’m not entirely sure. When sometimes I see people post screenshots of the software they’ve got five tabs but they all seem to be running the 12.12 as well

[@louyelich8680]

Great video.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Thank you. Were you able to connect to your batteries?

[@speaktruthforjesus]

When I go to Device Manager, I had to manually add the Ports tab but when I open it, I only see Communication Ports (COM3) and nothing else. I don’t see the tab USB Serial Port. When I plug my USB in my battery stays in sleep mode and it’s as of the computer isn’t recognizing it at all. Can you please help?

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

What USB adapter are you using?

[@jimyoung5733]

i ordered a prebuilt wire from ebay for this battery and software, drivers, com port all seem correct, yet it says no battery found after clicking locate battery. My u27-xp12 has been great for years but recently dropped to a current 2.6v so i am trying to wake it up. no flashing light on battery

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Hmmm. Have you be able to confirm the prebuilt wire is working? Maybe check in continuity between all the pins making sure that the connections are all working?

[@jimyoung5733]

@@MispronouncedAdventures thanks for your interest, i have not been able to confirm that pin 2 and 5 are putting out 5v. but the wire was from a reputable ebay account that sells to the popular diy solar forums for this reason. I have now tried two different PC's with obviously separately installed software. FTDI drivers confirmed, .net confirmed, running as ADMIN confirmed. software seems to be running fine, but both computers say no battery found when i click locate. when i unplug the wire and use a new usb port the COM does not change from COM 4 but i can see it come up and disappear from my devices. This is the same for both computers. I tested a usb port that does charge my items like mouses and keyboards, but when i test my multimeter on the 2 and 5 pins like the "superthread" says, i do not get any voltage.

[@SiriusSolar]

I was able to power a string of 24 batteries using a single 18650 that was putting out 4 volts. So the voltage isn't an issue

[@SiriusSolar]

One of my USB 485 dongles doesn't have 5volt output so I had to power the 5 volt buss externally from a battery or USB port.

[@SiriusSolar]

but there's something interesting that when I try to power it straight off of 5v from the extra laptop port it has a bunch of errors and barely works at all.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Hmm. That’s interesting. As I have seen online an issue some people had run into the there adapter not kicking out 5v and them having to power the 5v separately to get it to work. Testing that blue adapter and only getting 4.17v when the manual says 5v. I concluded that must of been the issue as the correct drivers were installed and different pin combinations were tested. I might take another look at that adapter tomorrow

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Potentially using data signals from one port and direct power from another confuses the laptop or the adapter itself

[@jimbaranski4687]

Where can we get the Valence Software?

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

This is where I found it www.brewskynet.com/valence/ . It hosted by someone on “www.DIYsolarforum.com” and they also has lots of information of these batteries under the “second life” forum.

[@denzilramsey]

Thanks! Great info

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

No problem at all.

[@SiriusSolar]

Anyway awesome video. This will certainly help a lot of people.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Thank you I hope so too. It’s got all of the issues I could find in it, plus a bit of trial and error on adapter types

[@SiriusSolar]

@@MispronouncedAdventures the male and female adapter are both useful. Because Sometimes I find it easier to access one end of the string versus the other.

[@SiriusSolar]

@@MispronouncedAdventures and you have to have a female in order to connect to the BMS.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Ah that is a good point regrading the BMS port

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Yeah I thought it will be a good idea to teat if you could use both a male or female for the adapter as I had seen some confusion about it online

[@brookeheaton7978]

What's the overall risk of purchasing a used battery without the blinking light? That would mean the battery is either totally dead or severely undercharged. If it's simply undercharged, does that affect the overall lifespan of the battery?

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

I couldn’t give you a answer from personal experience as I’ve not had a battery like that. But from what I have seen from the Facebook users group for this battery. That no flashing light is definitely the worst possible scenario, they can come back from it, but it does seem not everyone has success. The manual just recommends if no LED indicator is to apply a charger ( low amp ) and wait for it to change, hopefully bringing it back to red, then yellow then green.

[@brookeheaton7978]

@@MispronouncedAdventures So risk is pretty high then? I'm wondering if low voltage is the culprit the vast majority of times versus some other fatal issue.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

I would say so, does the seller not have this facility to put the batteries on any type of charge? Even a red light would be a lot less concerning than no light at all

[@roykimberley3200]

Hi there. I have a Valance U27 -12XP which I brought for a Campervan build. Unfortunately the Campervan project didn’t quite work out and the battery has been sitting in my house for over 6 months. The battery is now flashing red so I charged it with a lithium battery charger but it’s still flashing Red so I’m not sure if it is charged or not do you have any advice. Thanks in advance. P.S Great video it’s really been helpful.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Batteries can definitely come back from red. What voltage are you getting across the terminals? And if possible can you plug it into the diagnostic software. That will help to figure the particular reason it’s gone red, overall low voltage, or a particular cell is really low and so on

[@roykimberley3200]

14.4v. Do you sell the leads you made for your battery.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Just sitting at stabilised 14.4v without being connected to a charger? That’s super high for those batteries. 14.4v ÷ 4 ( cells ) = 3.6v per cell which is near the maximum for the each cell. Id recommend applying a load and bring it down a wee bit. Mine generally sit around 13.5v Unfortunately I don’t capacity sells the cables. But a set of Tyco connectors and the Rs-485 to USB adapters ( look for the smaller black models ) can be found on Amazon for a cheap price. I’d recommend making a cable so you can Connect to them with the diagnostic software and if you have Facebook joining the “Valence XP LiFePO4 battery user group” as its a helpful place and more people on there will have experience with batteries flashing red LED

[@OnlineopticsCoUk]

Hi mate... great video's btw keep em coming... Down the line how are the batteries operating/performing in our lovely UK weather and charging with your setup? cheers

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

They have been fantastic so far. 500watts of solar and 30amp Dc to Dc charger have be working well. Adding a wall charger as well as another option

[@OnlineopticsCoUk]

@@MispronouncedAdventures sounds good would you say your running out of power having to keep an eye on it/just right no effort / maybe bit overkill? Sorry just im going to run the basics here at first with 138ah Valence at first and maybe doubling up later by adding 1 more battery and panel later... looking at the 175w mono panel to start with. Ive just got laptop/mobile/1xpump/diesel heater/lighting/12v fridge/small inverter not all running at small time though lol.. the battery real output will probs be same as one of yours im guessing maybe 110ah if i'm lucky... would be great to hear your feedback... think its possible on that?... thanks Christopher

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Definitely not running out of power. They Allows me to be quite unconservative with power are use in the van if I want to be.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

But the bigger battery bank and more solar panels definitely allow more flexibility if you’ve got a few bad days in a row without decent solar.

[@OnlineopticsCoUk]

@@MispronouncedAdventures that was an interesting back story on your batteries sound like they were well made really thinking about getting these or the green v2s. Well I live in Highlands Scotland so its defo one to think about up here with overcast days. I suppose if I leave space for extra I can always add and hopefully when I take my sons away for an adventure I hope they wont be using their devices too much... lol thanks man

[@AP-vg3nr]

Total newbie here. Can you say a bit more about sleep mode? I've seen on other sites that you need a very expensive proprietary BMS to get these valence batteries out of sleep mode, and I'm hoping that's not true. When you say that "the battery is still usable in this state," does that mean that you don't even have to take it out of sleep mode to use it? If not - if you do have to wake it up first - is the 2 minute wakeup from the computer sufficient to keep it awake so long as you put a load on it within that 2 minute window? Or will it go back into sleep mode anyhow?

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

The only real difference between awake and sleep mode for these batteries is the active cell balancing. Basically when the batteries are awake either connected to the computer diagnostic software or to the rather expensive BMS, there active cell balancing under the right conditions will turn on. I believe the conditions for the active cell balancing to turn on is a spread larger than 40mV between cells and Nearing the top end of Charge State. Active cell balancing isn’t as complicated as it sounds. If one of the four cell groups has a higher voltage than the others. The built-in BMS will effectively burn off that Excess voltage via heating up a small resistor to effectively spend that Excess energy in that cell group bring it down to the level of the other cell groups.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Without active cell balancing if the battery is just left by itself the cells won’t balance. However when you have a load applied to the batteries continuously. That Excess energy is being burn off the system loads. For example when I originally put three of these batteries in my van and just had them connected up to the solar with no loads connected at all. I found a solar would charge them up the cells would start to spread quite a lot when they got to the top of the SOC ( when batteries were asleep ) and I would have to plug them into the computer to wake the batteries up for the cell balance of the kick in and sort them out. But as soon as I started having continuous electrical loads on my van system such as the fridge always running and consuming Energy this problem went away.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

It seems that it’s generally considered alright to use these batteries in parallel in small groups without them being awake.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

But as these therefore don’t have a true BMS you need to figure out other safety solutions when using these batteries such as your overvoltage cut off, low-voltage cut off and cold temperature charging cut off. If you’re interested in how to do those things check some of my other KZbin videos on my van build

[@AP-vg3nr]

@@MispronouncedAdventures Thank you! That's very helpful!

[@Vorulon]

Where do people source them from used

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

These were eBay, I see other from time to time on the valence user Facebook group

[@kamalhussain2977]

How can I balance each of the 4 cells in one of the 12v battery?

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Kamal Hussain having the battery plugged into the diagnostic software ( or a Their master U-BMS ) and charging them at the same time will activate the internal BMS’s cell balancing once it reaches a high enough voltage ( can remember what voltage) and has a large enough cell spread . I’ve also found no keeping them at 100% SOC helps and have a load using power will help the cells remain level

[@christopheradamo3694]

Awesome video. You’ve answered so many questions. I have the black modules like you do but they still have the Gen 1 one round connectors. I believe they are M 12 connectors. Any idea on those pin outs? I’m trying to make communication cables to connect to these directly and don’t want to cut the tips off. Do you have any of the user manuals for the black or green modules? A link to those would be awesome if they contain those panels that you were referencing. Thanks again for making such a great video.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Yeah I have a peculiar model sort of an intermediate between MK1 black with m12 connectors and Mk2 green Tyco connector. Which makes sense as mine are from a big fleet conversion which took place in the UK involving 50 vehicles so somewhere in region of 1200 batteries, right at the time between changing from the mark 1 to mark 2 models. If you have Instagram message me on there and I can send you a photograph of the pin out for the M12

[@christopheradamo3694]

@@MispronouncedAdventures No Instagram. Sorry. :(. Email? [e-mail]? Thanks again.

[@christopheradamo3694]

@@MispronouncedAdventures Have everything to go. Just need the pin out on the M 12 connector side. Software is installed and USB cable built. Thanks again.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Just seen your message. Ill get that sorted for you

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Just send you an email. Hopefully you should have it by now

[@moonhead911]

hello do you have a link for the black usb adaptor. i have the blue one. but it doesn't work thanks

[@vintagemopeds2767]

Hello great content what state of charge is 13.5v?

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

My current settings are bulk/absorption 13.8V and float 13.43V. I generally consider my 13.43v as full. I find the cell spread starts to wonder if I keep it at anything higher. I’ve done a rudimentary capacity test and got 330ah of my 390ah before I hit my low-voltage cut off at 12.65v which was about 20% left

[@jn3536]

Any recommendations to purchase the U27, for a reasonable price?

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Unfortunately no, they are pretty rare in the UK on the second hand market. Only upside is they usually sold off in decent size batches when a vehicle is broken up with them in. Just need to keep an eye out in eBay they seems to come up every few months. Unless you are US based where they seem a little more common

[@jackdiss9369]

Think we should chat - I got 2, 3, 10, 14, 15, 16, 20, 22 and two others... I see someone else got hold of the electric van haul

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Haha brilliant. I did a video about their back story and where they came from in my van build series. I also came across someone else who got a few from this set as well! We were probably bidding against each other at somepoint!

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

So far extremely happy with them in the van. One of my other videos shows how I implemented low voltage cut off protection, high voltage cut off protection and cold weather charge cut-offs. Currently in the process off adding adding a small battery warmer.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

If you wanted to chat about them. Message me on my Instagram :)

[@jackdiss9369]

@@MispronouncedAdventures will do, what's your username?

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

“Alexfrood”

[@FranklinBryan]

Instead of all the fanzines, can you go direct from cut wires to usb rs485?

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

As in cut the Tyco connector off directly off the battery and wire it directly too the 485 to USB adapter? Yeah you can. But a lot of people prefer to make an adapter to plug into or if you are Daisychaining multiple batteries Communication cables together

[@FranklinBryan]

@@MispronouncedAdventures sweet! Very helpful video. Thank you

[@1davspec]

Hey there, I could use your advice with my battery, it has round plugs on the data cable, it's a black valence u27 12xp, I'd like to change the plugs so in future it could connect to a later green battery if that's possible?? thanks for any help

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

You might run into a issue. The black models are 130ah, whilst the newer green models are 138ah. So mix and matching won’t be an option But I have seen people cut off the round plugs and put the newer style of plug on

[@escheie]

@@MispronouncedAdventures I'm having the same problem. Trying to combine 1 black U27 12XP with three green ones. I did not know the specs were different. Can you possibly provide a link? Many thanks!

[@DirtyboxersNet]

Where did you find these? Been looking for weeks 😝

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

UK eBay. A batch got sold off recently. Very rare for the Uk second hand market

[@briansomers4753]

Any chance of listing the connectors and usb parts from amazon? Been looking for months for this info can't thank you enough for the info.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

No problem at all are you were are you based? Connectors eBay would probably be the best option, they are called AMP superseals or Tyco connector. Loads of kits, you want the 5 pins version. But I bought a whole kit from 1-6 as they are useful.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

As for the USB search “usb to rs485” there are quite a few versions. Go for one of the smaller black models. The larger blue types seem to no all work. If you go on Amazon and look at the pin layout and see it’s got 5V, A+, B- and GND, that’s the important one most will have an additional 5th pin which in this case we won’t use.

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

USB to RS485 Converter Adapter FTDI CHIP with Screw Terminals and Windows MacOS Linux Support (Black) www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07SD65BVF/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_xIzIFb39VPNR1 This is a UK Amazon but if you can find a similar model that will work

[@briansomers4753]

Thanks

[@ab_ab_c]

Can you replace cells in a battery when they don't perform correctly?

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Generally no. They are sold by valence as a “sealed” unit / final product to the end user, not designed to be built and changed like you might if you were purchasing your own cells. Reality I mean you could take it apart and reuse / replaces cells if you wanted but they used 18650 cells in 4 groups of 100 cells each and from my understanding the 18650 cells are valence own brand using a LiFeMgPO4 chemistry and not a genetic LiFePO4 cell. So possibly but likely a pain in the ass and a decent skill set needed to do

[@ab_ab_c]

@@MispronouncedAdventures I saw a teardown vid on a Valence batt & they used cheapo Chinese cells 3.2V, 1.8A, 5C max discharge rate. Not sure if they used the same cells in their new batts. Thx 4 responding to my question!

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Teardown video wise are you referring to Will Prowse video where is disassembled a RX? Aye you can find them on Alibaba with the valence branding on about £1 each. Considering there are 400 of the cells in batteries it start to add up. Interesting to see those cells on Alibaba listed still as LiFePO4 and not LiFeMgPO4 valence always talk about using. But that probably a mislabelled for some reason

[@ab_ab_c]

@@MispronouncedAdventures Yes, but, there are actually several teardown vids available. I noticed that Valence uses different cells. It seems the battery configs are 4S100P for the 130+AH batteries. That's a lot of cells for 5$ when you can find such a deal! That's about 1.25 cents USD per cell! :)

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Fair enough. I had also notice the cells in the RX were orange, whilst in a tear down video of the XP 130ah the cells were bluesy/green. So I did guess they were something differently but I didn’t see the specs

[@BadgerMonkey]

Is there a link to download the software?

[@SiriusSolar]

I guess I missed the first comment rights to a 🤖!Lol

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Travis Sanders unfortunately yes. Bloody robots

[@tomrichards1044]

Great video, I have just the one older XP, controlled via a www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B08DNMK1CM?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_image. And a Mt50 , also have this mains charger, that has a lifepo4 repair mode ? Have found the rare tech docs pdf on these, which I wanted to know what the max amp discharge was on a single.

[@tomrichards1044]

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B08DNMK1CM?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_image. Handy backup charger for a single. Have watched it sense this battery, and the repair mode did its routine and seem to function, will be checking its amphrs when I put a designer shunt across soon. Also this charger brought back very dead 12v battery's, quite impressive. Expect you will you be grounding all those van cells?