How Tom Randall’s Carabiner Failed-And How You Can Avoid the Same Mistake

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Someone asked about the compatibility table with the GRIGRI - here it is! The Spine Bumper is prime in this case. The Gate Bumper gives no advantage. drive.google.com/file/d/1NP8DM2xp1GaR_jSu22-SGTQrtE5VtPr3/view?usp=sharing

[@731Seba]

Huge respect to edelrid. By giving you the choice to directly connect the pinch into the belay loop you can avoid all those problems. Nice to see those examples of clever engineering.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Absolutely! Edelrid has done a great job with that design, allowing direct connection to the belay loop to avoid common issues like cross-loading. It's those kinds of thoughtful, practical solutions that make all the difference in climbing gear. Glad you appreciate it!

[@MISSYTHEPITSKY]

U just got yourself a new subscriber I like how thorough you are

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Thank you so much for subscribing! It means a lot, and I’m really glad you enjoy the thoroughness. Excited to have you here!

[@hygri]

Excellent work as always. I've been using the little rubber DMM sport quickdraw dogbone holder thingys (?) for a long time to constrain device movement in connectors, nice to see you have created the perfect solution - I will get some :)

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Thanks so much! Glad you like the solution! The DMM rubber dogbone holders are a great option too for keeping things in place. Hope our Gate and Spine Bumpers work just as well for you-let me know what you think once you try them!

[@whatever-3393]

Hey Yann ! Thk u for this insight, huge informations like always. About the "blackdiamond gridlock screwgate", all these types of carabiner are actually design to be used with the gate down, which prevent the cross loading. Its indicated in the user guide. A lot of people, even mountain guides are using it wrong tho, dont really know why.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@whatever-3393 I agree! Note that it is annoying to turn it upside down. I’d rather use it “right side up” with a gate and a spine bumper. It’s all options! It is good you know the limitations and the right ways!!

[@nickonfoot]

Thanks for all that work. I use the Lov3 with the Ceros through the small loop, which seems to work fine.

[@CloveHitchCory]

Incredible work Yann 🙏

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@CloveHitchCory thanks my friend!! Your comment fills my heart!! ❤️

[@stefanomorandi7150]

i can see a potential for the blue stopper to get a belay loop stuck above it and then it increase the chance of "normal" crossloading (ex. HMS with belay loop and grigri both on larger side between blue and red stopper)... obviously a small wiregate or rubberstopper to keep belay loop on other side fixes this and then becomes 99% bomber. i've used a combo of rubberbands and steel biner (heavy but superstrong on all directions) to mitigate this risk the few times i went LRS. props to Yann for bringing up the topic and doing this work, its good to always mind these aspects of climbing

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Great points! The blue stopper can indeed trap a belay loop, increasing cross-loading risk. Adding a wiregate or rubber stopper fixes this and makes it nearly bomber. Your steel biner + rubber bands setup is practical for LRS-though heavy. Thanks for sharing your insights; refining these details keeps us all safer! 🚀

[@peteranelson]

Thanks Yann! Makes the E Pinch look pretty good. What’d be the downside to tying your PCD to your belay loop with webbing? Less convenient for sure but should avoid any weird loading configurations.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

You're welcome! Tying your PCD to your belay loop with webbing could avoid weird loading, but it’s less convenient. It’s bulkier, takes more time to adjust, and might wear out faster in high-friction areas. Still, it’s a solid choice if you're focused on preventing funky loading!

[@purdypart]

Thanks for this Yann. And can you do testing/vid about how that red gate bumper might (or might not) make a rope drag scenario open the gate more easily... thank you!

[@paulgaras2606]

I tried to test this with a grigri on a camp Atom Belay Lock and it seemed like I couldn’t get it to bind up. However, if the biner is rotated in a very particular sequence the device can jam on the spine as it slides back toward the wide end. It was weird. Not sure if it could ever happen when the device was actually connected.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

I don't own the camp Atom Belay Lock. Very interesting results! Happy the video got you thinking! Do you think the Spine Bumper could help the grigri stay where you want it? Also note I put this table about the Grigri compatibility with the same carabiners presented in the video: drive.google.com/file/d/1NP8DM2xp1GaR_jSu22-SGTQrtE5VtPr3/view?usp=drive_link

[@cydrow]

I thought DMM Ceros would solve everything. But it didn't. Very useful information. Thank you.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

You're welcome! The DMM Ceros is a solid carabiner, but like all gear, it has its quirks and limitations depending on the setup. Most carabiners seem to have been designed pairing with the Grigri in mind. So most are compatible with the Grigri and have trouble with other devices. Glad you found the info useful-hopefully, it helps you dial in your system!

[@richardott8601]

Thank You for great work and showcase of various systems and crossloading problems. My english is probably limited, i still don't get it how Tom Randall slided on his rope to the knot in the end, when his carabine broke. I imagine having i.e. microtrax having backward and on that sliding to knot. Or how was he attached to the rope after he broke carabine and fall/slide to knot? Thanks a lot.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@richardott8601 you can read on the accident here: publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/13200305300/Fall-on-Rock-Inadequate-Protection-Inadequate-Clothing-and-Equipment-Weather?fbclid=IwAR1loQye50n5FMGYqx57zUWzUCJZ_uJ2nfBOw1VHZ7c2ke1QxZE78i6N2k0

[@mrbaboon3500]

I had a little warning bell go off in my head when you said it made the gates easier to open. Is there a chance the bumpers could increase the likelihood of accidentally opening a gate?

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Well spotted! Like we write on our website: WARNING: We strongly recommend using the bumpers for clipping devices only-not ropes. Check out these videos to understand why: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iaqlf3-Dis2Sr9Esi=bKbCSq9H1QeJmcvA and this one: kzbin.infoy65e7Kwgp1U

[@Martin-q2x8d]

Hi Yann, the picture with a crossloaded Gridlock and pinch triggered me pretty hard :-) I would never ropesolo with the pinch (when not attached directly to the harness) or with the Gridlock, which I dislike very much.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@Martin-q2x8d I hear you. But note there is nothing wrong with the Pinch. And nothing wrong with the Gridlock. They should just not be paired like this!!! I agree the Pinch feature attaching direct to a belay loop is MEGA!!

[@Govanification]

If you're using a CT Roll n Lock, get a DMM rhinoceros. Works perfect with no modification, device can't move passed the horn on the spine or slide around the nose to get over the gate, it's trapped up on the basket of the carabiner.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@Govanification sounds great! You found a good pairing! Is it with the Ceros or the Rhino? Did you see it the pairing table I show in the video is correct? Cheers!!

[@Govanification]

Sorry I meant the rhino. Didn't see that combo in the chart but you had the ceros + roll n lock as XX (bad), and i thought the top basket and gate were similar between those. What was the bad loading with the ceros? I also have the older roll n lock and a rhino from 4 or 5 years ago, idk if they changed geometry on newer models.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@Govanification With the Ceros + RollNLock setup, something similar to what you see at 4:45 in the video can happen: the RollNLock slides onto the sleeve and jams securely under load. This lever-loading action on the gate can potentially damage the device, the carabiner, or even the rope.

[@Govanification]

Weird, on the rhino I have the roll n lock can't turn the corner and move over the gate. It stays perfectly captured up on the carabiner basket.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@ is it a screw lock? Triple lock? Older model? I look at the website and I can’t understand why rhino and ceros would be different in that regard!! Do you have the RollNLock or the RollNLock 2?

[@simonrobbins815]

I use a large quicklink (with a microtraxion) rather than a carabiner, should I rethink that and find a carabiner that works well (e.g. Ultra-O)?

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Interesting choice with the quicklink! What exact model are you using with the Microtraxion? Depending on the setup, a carabiner like the Ultra-O might offer more convenience, but I'd love to hear more about your current setup to give better advice!

[@alandoak5146]

It takes a lot to break a steel quick link, I'd be astounded if a quick link could ever break before the climber did. For TR solo'ing, there's another failure mechanism I'm far more concerned about if it's a non-redundant system: clothing or similar getting sucked into the device between the cam and rope, preventing it from grabbing.

[@mrbaboon3500]

Are there any situations where these bumpers can themselves become part of the issue they aim to solve? Can they move when in use and create unexpected configurations/cross loads? Could devices get squeezed over the bumpers somehow and get stuck in unfavorable positions? Do we know how these bumpers age/degrade over time and with use and how that affects their performance?

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

... become part of the issue they aim to solve? Maybe but I cannot think of a single example. Can they move when in use and create unexpected configurations/cross loads? Maybe but they are not likely to move in the uses I describe in my video. Could devices get squeezed over the bumpers somehow and get stuck in unfavorable positions? Maybe but never happened in my testing. If a device squeezes a bumper and gets loaded, it will get dragged easily and end up loading the carabiner as there was no bumper. As I explain in the video: better to test every combination 1 by 1. Do we know how these bumpers age/degrade over time and with use and how that affects their performance? The bumpers are made of TPU and have outperformed the competition in durability tests. So far, they’ve held up to all the best options out there, even in our most abusive testing-we haven’t managed to destroy a single one yet! Honestly, I can’t wait to see how someone eventually manages to terminate a bumper. If it happens, I’d love to know how they pulled it off! Thanks for the interest!

[@foobar9220]

A great and cheap solution is adding rubber rings to the carabiners to prevent movement of the device. More details on Andreas Trunz LRS tutorials.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Rubber rings are the budget climber’s best friend for keeping devices steady on carabiners-cheap, easy, and surprisingly effective! Andreas Trunz’s LRS tutorials are a goldmine for these kinds of tips. The man even uses duct tape for fixes, so if you’re into climbing and arts and crafts, his hacks are right up your alley!

[@ReynaMacrae]

I have broken a carabiner from prusic climbing down a rope that crosload and triload warning is no joke climbing is dangerous!

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Whoa! Do you know what exacly happened? Do you remember the model of the carabiner?

[@ReynaMacrae]

@YannCamusBlissClimbing yes it was a Black Diamond hot forge screw gate. The carabiner was attached to the tie in points of my harness and to a prusic TRI- loading the carabiner I sat in my harness rather hard, The gate (which had come unscrewed) bent around the nose and hung floppy on the outside atleast I had attached my foot prusic to my belay loop with a lanyard of old rope and a carabiner I replaced the broken carabiner with a wire gate the same way (thru the tie in points) and continued to jug down. Did not know what I was doing at the time still don't but I'm learning, it is strange how easy it is to bend a unlocked carabiner gate around the nose and break it I could do it with my thumbs on most of my carabiner I bet

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Got this email: "Hi Yann, Thanks for all your helpful content about TR solo climbing. I wonder if you have ever tested Edelrid Pure Slider carabiner with Petzl Micro Traxion and Edelrid Spoc. Do you think I would still need the gate bumper with this and will it fit? It's hard to cause it to cross load or weird load when practising with it myself. This is not a normal crew gate closure of course. Do you think this gives enough security for TRS? I would love to know your thoughts. Thanks,"

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Here is my answer: "Thanks for your question! I actually use the Kiwi Slider carabiner all the time and highly recommend it over the Edelrid Pure Slider. The Kiwi is top-notch, while the Pure III is reasonably good, but the Pure is just okay for this use. As for your setup with the Petzl Micro Traxion and Edelrid Spoc, the Pure Slider does help reduce the risk of cross-loading, so you may not need the Gate Bumper. Also, the Gate Bumper doesn’t fit the Pure Slider, and I don’t think the Spine Bumper is necessary with it either. Since I use a backup, I’m not concerned about the slider’s safety, but it’s great that you’re testing things out for yourself. Do you have the Pure or the Pure III? Let me know if you need any more details or have further questions! Best,"

[@jgfylkjy]

leaving a comment for the algorythym gods. stay safe all :)

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@jgfylkjy good comment! Thanks for this!! 🙏

[@ghostdog0424]

Being an absolute moron I use a CAMP 50kn rated triple-locking steelie as my belay carabiner, and surprisingly it doesn’t have those problems with the pinch. Downside is it weighs a ton and is massive, but it’ll never break at least. I’ll probably look at getting some for my other carabiners for extra price of mind still

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Is it the 30 kN CAMP Steel Oval Pro 3Lock you're using or the 52 kN Camp Steel D Pro 3lock? Just curious if that's the model you're referring to!

[@pwnz89]

⁠I want to know too!

[@vintagemetal]

Why would you use a 50kn biner?

[@ghostdog0424]

@@YannCamusBlissClimbing the D steel pro lock

[@ghostdog0424]

@@vintagemetal because it was cheaper than the aluminum ones lol. Also it’s really large so it plenty versatile

[@tukimcfry]

Black Friday discount code?

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

BLISSBLACK gives you 20% off until tomorrow!

[@tukimcfry]

@@YannCamusBlissClimbing Thanks! Just ordered 2 sets for my LRS biners. Hope they arrive in Spain in a reasonable amount of time. Keep up the good work!

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@tukimcfry We’re on it! You’ll receive a tracking link via email shortly. Thanks for choosing us-your support means a lot!

[@MegaZorki]

Il suffit d'inverser le mousqueton ( mettre l'appareil d'assurage du coté "petit" du mousqueton) pour ne plus avoir ce problème.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Oui tu as raison. Cette méthode convient parfaitement pour le Grigri ou le Pinch avec le BD Gridlock. Ce n'est pas le cas pour d'autres combinaisons...

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

En fait j’ai bien regardé ma table de compatibilité et il pourrait y avoir un problème plus profond entre le Gridlock et le Pinch. Faut tester pour retrouver le problème avec le mousqueton inversé. Mais je crois que c’est ok et je suis sauté hâtivement à une conclusion de non-compatibilité.

[@bombert6602]

This doesn't really pertain to rope solo, but there have been demonstrative videos of a rappel rack easily snapping the gate of the connecting carabiner. I am unaware of any accident resulting from this lever loading of a rack, and I'm even more suspicious of it occurring in the field after watching this video. 🤔 perhaps someone will read this and point to an accident involving a rappel rack and a lever loaded carabiner gate.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Lever-loading with rappel racks is a known concern, but real-world incidents seem rare. The demo video I have in mind shows the risk, but real-life vigilance likely reduce it. Still, caution is always wise-maybe someone here has a case to share!

[@stephenbentley6747]

Thanks Yann. I’m pretty sure the BD Grudlock is meant to be used the other way round to your demo with the Pinch. The other way around (which is annoying in my opinion) cross loading seems pretty much impossible.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

You're absolutely right! Using the BD Gridlock inverted solves those weird loading issues and prevents cross-loading. However, many climbers find it more convenient to use it 'rightside up.' That’s where the Gate Bumper and Spine Bumper come in-offering a solution for setups where cross-loading can still be a concern.

[@stephenbentley6747]

It is definitely an annoying carabiner small side up! For me I don’t think there is much point to the gridlock big side up. It seems as prone, perhaps even more prone, to cross loading as a regular screw gate but more annoying. You can solve cross loading with your blockers but I’d recommend a different carabiner (on which one puts your blocker things of course 😊).

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@stephenbentley6747 Thanks for supporting, Stephen! The Gridlock big side up can be tricky. That said, the Gate and Spine Bumpers are a solid option for preventing cross-loading in those setups!

[@dan.bonnell]

This is interesting content. I'm glad you pointed out the proper orientation for the BD GridLock. This has become my go-to for single pitch sport belaying. I use the HMS side for my belaying because I'm using tube or passive ABD devices like reverso, ATC XP, Pilot and Smart 2.0. However, my daughter uses GriGri or Neox when belaying. So she inverts the carabiner to prevent crossloading, and it works amazing for this application.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@dan.bonnell Thanks Dan! Yes all good.

[@cydrow]

Your harness is equipped with rings instead of belay loops. Yann. You really need to be careful what you say and do, because beginners like me copy your actions. Hahaha. I also want to install a ring on my harness like you. Do I have to cut the belay loop?

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

You don't "have" to cut the belay loop. But that is what I do. There are pros and cons to that. Usually: the Ring is totally not required. Full details in my online courses: blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/

[@hummerchine]

Man those BD Gridlocks…..what a horrible carabiner design!

[@PhilippSchmid-u2d]

no, it isn't. just rtfm! if you switch it around like discribed for grigri use you can avoid crossloading and get one of the best carabiners for grigri use in my opinion

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Totally get your frustration with the BD Gridlocks, @hummerchine! They can be tricky if used incorrectly. @PhilippSchmid-u2d is right-if you invert it like described for Grigri use, it helps prevent cross-loading and can actually work really well for that purpose. Actually, the Gridlock is one of the best carabiners around for fitting any device with perfect loading, sometimes used normally, sometimes inverted. Some people point out that breaking the mobile separator can create sharp edges, which could be a hazard. But if used correctly, the risk of breaking that separator is unlikely. Still, it’s something to consider during testing and final selection of the connector.

[@hummerchine]

@@YannCamusBlissClimbing I understand what you guys are saying but I still hate that carabiner design! As a notorious gear slut of course I bought one, hated it, left it as a leaver ‘biner at an anchor in Kalymnos. A close friend did the same. But hey it’s personal preference, glad to hear that someone out there likes the Gridlock!

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@hummerchine Fair enough! (Tom right?) Gear preferences are so personal-what works for one person might drive another crazy. Leaving it as a leaver ‘biner in Kalymnos was probably the best use for it if it’s not your thing. I’m sure the climber who found it felt like it was Christmas morning!

[@hummerchine]

@@YannCamusBlissClimbing haha you are on to me! Yes, it’s Tom:D