How Trump became a fascist | Federico Finchelstein

-- Federico Finchelstein, world-renowned expert on fascism, populism, and dictatorship and Professor of History at the New School for Social Research, joins David to discuss his new book, "The Wannabe Fascists: A Guide to Understanding the Greatest Threat to Democracy." Get the book: amzn.to/3wJL5TW
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Broadcast on May 16, 2024
#davidpakmanshow #federicofinchelstein #fascism

[@thedavidpakmanshow]

Tell Judge to JAIL Trump for violating gag order AGAIN: atadvocacy.com/jail-trump-5624?ref=dp

[@1987BillyBob]

Pakman, when will you take on my challenge to debate you?

[@joetheschmoe2]

You sound obsessed dude. Your family hates speaking with you. ​@@1987BillyBob

[@TimSpangler-rd6vs]

@@joetheschmoe2 I'd like to debate David on this subject

[@CanadianPPC]

Its funny everything that the democrats went after trump for all failed with no evidence and J6th.. 9-11 democrat judges all said he didnt enact an insurrection yet yall see these progressives still say he did

[@CanadianPPC]

David should put up a list of the censored words he put for his comment section so we dont trip them

[@brigham2250]

I think we're dealing with "Who-cares-ism." Too many Americans just don't care. That is the true end of Democracy.

[@TheScaramongus]

Yup, they are indifferent and willingly under-educated. Maybe their stupidity makes them unable to care because they are incapable of understanding the ramifications of their own uninformed beliefs. Too many of our people revel in their own ignorance and wear it like a badge.

[@Aubury]

There’s the rub. Like climate change, with a whimper

[@CanadianPPC]

America isnt a democracy, its a constitutional republic, power is with the people the gov doesnt hold the power... democracies is where the gov has all the power

[@user-it8mt3zg9f]

@@CanadianPPCA constitutional republic is a form of democracy, Ding Dong.

[@CanadianPPC]

@@user-it8mt3zg9f no its not.. constitutional republic is the law is supreme.. democracy is the majority imposes its will on the minority

[@romainequiver8909]

Amazing guest David, the general public is in desperate need of intelligent discourse. The media must stop normalizing low-lifery and start normalizing erudition if we are ever to have a thriving democracy once again🌟

[@user-it8mt3zg9f]

MSM is our oligarchy's propaganda piece. Notice how they hardly ever talk about main street table issues? This fight looks like it's against MAGA and Trump, but it truly is the fight for our Democracy against our oligarchy billionaire class.

[@1987BillyBob]

This guy is worthless and an idiot. He has around 20 copies of his book behind him because no one is buying it. Not once did he ever explain how Trump is a fascist.

[@brozius]

@@1987BillyBob Every Republican accusation is a confession

[@brozius]

@@1987BillyBob

[@siswohlslagel8919]

Thanks David ☺️

[@ImMaleImProud]

It's finally completed: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5OvfIhrbMeEfc0

[@fred1267]

Breaking News Biden has been scolded by his carers for opening his big mouth again and saying he wants to debate Trump The carers swiftly changed Biden's diaper and took him back to the basement - ha ha Biden still thinks his uncle was eaten by cannibals

[@PabluchoViision]

Before listening to the pillars, and if limited to only four, these would be mine: (1) political violence, mobilizing quasi- or extra-legal forces; (2) corporate power dominant over labor; (3) personal autocratic power witted to cult of personality; (4) visceral nationalism based on demonization/verminization of outsiders (either actual foreigners/immigrants, or residents/citizens rhetorically rendered foreign).

[@CrazyGuyoftheWest]

2 is a common misconception surrounding fascism. Why would a fascist want to share power with a corporation? Hitler’s Nazi party had infiltrated the executive boards of all of the corporations, and after the 1933 seizure of power, did their best to circumvent the proceedings of these corporations to further instill party ideals of the Volksgemeinschaft, often at the cost of workplace productivity and manufacturing goals. The corporations would eventually have been brought completely under NSDAP control had the regime continued.

[@bretfisher7286]

Well expressed. Not far from what was said here, and not far from some of the more widely-distributed checklists.

[@noel7777noel]

I would only have one common denominator. The inability to understand logistics. Basically, it lacks the ability to spot oxymorons, redundancies, or cognitive dissonances. For example, "smart" enough to be a predotory lender to the people doing all the work. For example, health "insurance"and free at the point of service is a redundant statement. The definition of "insurance" literally means free at the point of service. These same people are the "tough love" people who will blame the poor and helpless immigrants for the power to tank an economy. By the way, "tough love" is an oxymoron. These same people would be passive income people questioning the work ethics of active income people. That somehow, people avoiding work by punishing the borrowers can call themselves passive income and that's not a synonym for slavery. That slavery is a synonym for trickle-down economics.

[@_Historia_Magistra_Vitae]

There are no "pillars". Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile literally wrote an essay describing what their ideology was about, called "the Doctrine of Fascism". Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism. Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state." As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.

[@noel7777noel]

Many cult leaders also share antisocial characteristics and tendencies that make up the diagnostic definition of antisocial personality disorder. Some of these characteristics include a predisposition for dominance and aggression . Basically, smart enough to be a predotory lender. Cult recruiters are paid well for their recruiting abilities. This bad math of a ponzi scheme typically blames the immigrants. The rewarding savers are punishing the borrowers. For example, "smart" enough to be a predotory lender to the people doing all the work.

[@bretfisher7286]

One necessity in creating a successful fascist structure is for the great majority of the people supporting it to not understand what it is. Thus, fascism is highly dependent on ignorance, and ignorance can come in a straight line from exhaustion-- and that accounts for the relentless and savage messaging of anyone who supports the fascist idea. I believe they know exactly what the effects of an unending campaign of frightening people, making people irrationally angry, and the rest of it, will be.

[@Tastybits995]

Highly interesting, but also scary...

[@tommyparis5047]

At least we will not be able to say that we did not know….

[@mathildestoltz4260]

Good description of Stalin, Putin and the iranian regime.

[@Odisseu_AOE]

Federico does an amazing job

[@siswohlslagel8919]

Vote 💙💙💙

[@ImMaleImProud]

More Mass shootings happened when 👤🗣️💙📬is president

[@The-Mask021]

Moe mouse sh, 💩💩ings happened when 👤 is president

[@davehallett810]

Harlem shouting "We love Trump"

[@XZITT]

​@davehallett810 so how come your IP is from Alabama.

[@Mikejamiew]

Not sure how much credit to give Dementia Don. But his handlers are facists for sure.

[@deborahmoore2801]

Thank you both. 😊

[@cjnothing7897]

The term fascism is overused today. Many people call other people fascists without knowing the actual meaning of fascism.

[@larryforbes6718]

Outstanding show! A great reminder of the larger forces at play in Nov 2024.

[@MmKr7525]

I think Trump cares about himself and that’s all. He is transactional “The Art of the Deal.” I wonder if he even cares for his family?

[@ritagreene8376]

He has cheated on all of his 3 wives, he hates his children all but Invaka who he would like to have sex with. Great family man.

[@maplelatte3366]

I can guarantee you he doesn't. I have had my fair share of experience with narcissists. An analogy I have heard often is that they love you as one loves an appliance. A toaster is great as long as it sits there on the counter, doesn't need anything, and performs it's intended function. As soon as it stops working, people don't feel particularly bad about replacing the toaster. Only narcissists feel that way about people. Remember the quote that came up in his trial recently? Cohen said that Trump told him it didn't matter if Melania left him over the cheating because he wouldn't be single for long. And he allows the grave of the mother of his older children, on his New Jersey golf course, to be overgrown and unkempt. He absolutely has greenskeepers. How much trouble would it be to have someone stop by Ivana's grave to mow and plant some flowers? He'll take the tax cut, though, from having that portion of the property designated as a cemetery. Even in death, he sees people as utilitarian.

[@lindaflesch7303]

I don't think so, except how they reflect on him

[@Mikejamiew]

He couldn't care less about his family. Don't think he even wants to sleep with Ivanka anymore - he's too far gone mentally and physically.

[@micheleconner5083]

It appears they don't care for him! He looks at everyone and everything as how can it help me. If it(they) can't help him,they are useless to him. And once he's milked what he can from someone, they're history, also.

[@feminottiheather3134]

Well, well, well. Came across Finchelstein and look who already interviewed him. Go Pakman!

[@axiomaddict]

Thank you, David. I always appreciate a pulled-back view of the larger picture. I ordered Prof. Finchelstein’s book today, and look forward to reading it.

[@Pyrolonn]

Wow great guest. Worth the effort to discern through the thick accent.

[@Kimm.J]

Folks... Vote for Reason 🔵💙 Not for Treason ❌ 🇺🇸 Biden 🇺🇸

[@ImMaleImProud]

It's finally completed: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5OvfIhrbMeEfc0

[@wellhellothere6347]

Ok, but what if that is not enough?

[@Frankie9553]

how did he commit treason?

[@davehallett810]

Harlem shouting "We love Trump"

[@TheScaramongus]

@@Frankie9553 oh boy, another obtuse MAGA, how unusual, how rare, how unique

[@perhogstrom1820]

Interesting interview.

[@tmcd5049]

He had alternate facts, is he the spearhead of an 'alternate fascism'?

[@mariopensotti1015]

I’m disappointed that you didn’t ask about president Milei

[@TheMageesa]

Finchelstein includes him as one of the wannabee dictators in articles he's written. Interesting he mentions Peron but not Milei... David was 'on the fence' about who he would have voted for, as I recall.😑

[@joshuabates7424]

This is amazing!

[@tmcd5049]

He had Mein Kampf read to him by some poor lackey!

[@mikehart5619]

I read Mein Kampf maybe 50 years ago. It was deadly boring. I'd expect DJT would have fallen asleep or wandered off after maybe 15 minutes.

[@RemoveTheCult]

Trump's idol?

[@playcloudpluspc]

The trolls in the comments (some Russian no doubt) can't handle the truth about their dear leader and his sick enablers.

[@1987BillyBob]

Maybe you can answer this, because no one else has. How is Trump a fascist?

[@playcloudpluspc]

@@1987BillyBob How about you tell me how Trump is not a fascist first?

[@1987BillyBob]

@@playcloudpluspc the onus is on you. You claim Trump is a fascist. Well, how?

[@1987BillyBob]

@@playcloudpluspc the fact that you cannot explain how Trump is a fascist says to me that he is not.

[@danyboy1477]

​@@1987BillyBobget lost trumptard

[@DorianPaige00]

You can't discount the influence of Pat Buchanan in the 90's. He didn't gain as much traction as he didn't have the acting ability. Buchanan came off as mad and could make inroads toward the party establishment or moderates.

[@rsk9228]

I can't imagine having a life fixated on 1 person, that's all you talk about, Trump Trump What a horrible life to live

[@ClownCarCoup]

There are MAGA cult people that actually travel long distances for TRump, Trump, Trump

[@robertnelson4460]

The United States Military does have many officers in charge that are compromised with MAGA principles. But there are plenty of General Officers who inspite of their political beliefs would find it completely appalling to intervene in domestic politics. IF 45 becomes 47, it will be interesting to see how these Officers might become corrupted in just four years.

[@jimohara]

This guy is not Bona Fide. He’s a creep.

[@tylerhackner9731]

He loves that ideology

[@ImMaleImProud]

Examples b. How treats his political opponents or what speech how Yiu hate him speech why you hate Men why hate wh👻

[@ScottLane-ud9tj]

The more Trump babbles and rants, and the more his mental state declines, the More far right voters he attracts. Notice that when he makes incoherent remarks, his supporters seem oblivious, cheering him on.

[@user-if8xc5db6r]

"What are the ways to resist this direction?" I think that would be for the "non-fascists" jail their political opponents to protect democracy.

[@siswohlslagel8919]

?

[@LJG29]

Do we need apologists for our democratic, legal and economic systems that allow bad faith actors to take over and overthrow the systems? To say “I have no idea how this could have happened”, seems ridiculous. We are not quite informed, and do not exactly have an effective warning about the dangers we are facing.

[@ClubPenguinFan106]

“Finchelstein” Nice 😂

[@elmerfudd6740]

Didnt know facists would protect freedom of speech and would allow second amendment right for people

[@shlby69m]

Honestly, accent is too hard to understand. Hopefully Spanish speaking Americans will appreciate & take to heart.

[@typeviic1]

Trump is the perfect example of a politician that plays a character to get votes.

[@terribletomvu37]

It’s just awful how the fascist Trump failed to get himself reelected.

[@Eye_Of_The_Pyramid]

Bro, America is not a democracy.

[@robertnelson4460]

Because he's a narcissist and those two go together luke peas and carrots. It was inevitable.

[@redsparks2025]

the privileged few losing some of their privileges cry fowl the loudest.

[@USUG0]

technically, he is not really a fascist. One of pillars of fascism was (and still is, for the European "true" fascissts) a strong social welfare, including univeral socialized healthcare and housing. Aspects completely absent in American authoritarianism. Also, at least originally, it was a secular movement. Only later, it embraced religion for obvious reasons. And a component of today's fascism as a matter of cultural identity, especially as a reaction to muslim immigration. That is, it would be more correct to call it neofascism, capitalist fascism, or simply Trumpism (it has already gained its place in the history of authoritarian movements)

[@TheBeautifulWindsofAragon]

He was just explaining that this is a third wave of fascism, that is different from the two earlier even though they have some resemblances.

[@alexandertaylor7316]

Healthcare and welfare systems in 1930s and 40s Germany were highly restricted so as to include only strong, fit, white Germans. It's perhaps not completely accurate to describe it as "universal" healthcare

[@RemoveTheCult]

Hey buddy quit spreading fake news

[@USUG0]

@@RemoveTheCult says someone that clearly doesn't now history

[@USUG0]

@@TheBeautifulWindsofAragon mine was a general consideration, not about the specific interview

[@randysmith3654]

David... now do one on how you become a lover of government and spreader of bullsh*t!

[@steverichards1482]

calm down cult member.

[@brozius]

Every Republican accusation is a confession

[@StumblingThroughItAll]

1. If you think political violence is limited to the political right in this moment, you've been asleep. 2. Lies and propaganda are wildly prevalent on both sides of the isle (more and more so on this very channel, unfortunately). 3. The xenophobia and racsim is just a form of out-grouping, which is also very prevalent on the left as well. 4. On the dictatorship aspect, I think the COVID era was a perfect test case to see which side would use fear and public panic to wield power over citizens. On this case study, Trump was not the worst offender in my analysis. Happy to provide receipts. Any concerns of fascism'esque tendencies from your own political tribe David? We hear every single day that Trump is a fascist. My major concern is that the political left seems willfully blind to the exact same dangers bubbling up within their own tribe.

[@DavidSeat-yl5ss]

Projection

[@ryansteve2893]

That hair bro! Stop! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@RemoveTheCult]

Trump's toupee is any better 😂 🤡

[@ryansteve2893]

@@RemoveTheCultFirst. Who said anything about Trump? I'm an RFK JR guy. And isn't Trump like 80 and David is like 43? Dying your hair jet black at that age screams suuuuch insecurity.

[@1987BillyBob]

Yeah, how is Trump a fascist? Can someone please explain?

[@nicholashylton6857]

-Demonizing minorities, the educated, and the press (i.e. Outlets that express any amount of criticism) -Hyper-nationalism -Gas lighting, blame shifting, and emotional manipulation -Bold faced lies, spouted as the "truth", repeated over and over and over... -Threatening & supporting acts of violence -A leader who demands absolute fidelity to him from his followers -And declarations that Communism & socialism are at the root of every problem. (Even though he cannot define or differentiate between them. Not that he cares.)

[@1987BillyBob]

@@nicholashylton6857 1. How did he demonize minorities and the educated? 2. What hyper nationalism? During covid he could have done federal mandates, he did not 3. Everyone blame shifts, welcome to politics 4. What lies? 5. What threats? What acts of violence? 6. So someone wants something from their followers? Wow, what a shocker 7. Communisms and socialism are fascist

[@CanadianPPC]

They cant, they just wanna hate someone just to hate, thats what progressives do

[@RemoveTheCult]

We can spend the whole day explaining to you showing you prove you're not going to pay attention to it you don't want to look at it you going to sit there and resist the facts calling it fake news. Can sit here all day it's not going to help when the person doesn't want to listen they can hear but hearing is just like this: hearing blah blah di day bidi blah blah and to listen: 👂👂 is hearing the words word for word and making understanding of them so you can come to a conclusion yourself by using your brain problem is Trump monkeys don't have the capabilities to use the brain because they follow and act on whatever they hear coming out of Trump's mouth now again the examples of hearing and listening are stated above there's a huge difference bloody blah budoh blah idh blah

[@RemoveTheCult]

Your guys is cult is disconnected from reality you guys are in a different parallel reality

[@dopameems]

Didnt understand a word.

[@TheScaramongus]

Why not? Were they made up of too many letters or maybe syllables? Do you need a dictionary?

[@sootvilleaustin2995]

Seriously why didn’t you understand this? This was presented very clearly and could be understood by the average middle schooler.

[@1987BillyBob]

@@sootvilleaustin2995 nowhere in this 17+ minute interview did this guy ever explain how Trump is a fascist. Maybe you can point out where.

[@sootvilleaustin2995]

@@1987BillyBob 3:00 Trumpism is morphing into want-to-be fascism. Trump and Trumpism are inseparable. He would need to gain power to carry out his goal of being a fascist but he is a fascist, along with being a racist, a bigot, a rapist, a cheater, a fraud, a conman, a moron, a clown, a puppet of Putin and an overall PoS.

[@RemoveTheCult]

You must have not done well in school huh 😂 DERP

[@SinclairPoppins]

I think he became a fascist because a lady broke his heart 💔

[@wellhellothere6347]

He doesn't have a heart.

[@SinclairPoppins]

@@wellhellothere6347 Ripped out by a spiteful lover

[@ImMaleImProud]

When trump been fascist every examples like putting kids in cages baning hate speech. Looking up political opponents for protesting them with visitors lawyers hygiene b untill they agree with narrive then used that coahered narrive in discredited committee comes 💙🗣️👤📬

[@wellhellothere6347]

@@SinclairPoppins Nope, never had one, never will.

[@ImMaleImProud]

​@@SinclairPoppins what examples every examples of banning 😡 speech locking up political opponents putting kids in cages come democrats

[@ImMaleImProud]

Least fascist countries with more free economys have fetuscide bans

[@newtron9]

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP WE ARE WITH YOU 24/7/365❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤M.A.G.A. AGAIN❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤CAN'T WAIT FOR YOUR GLORIOUS RETURN TO SAVE US FROM THIS CORRUPT ADMIN. THAT IS DESTROYING OUR COUNTRY❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤TRUMP 2024❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@danyboy1477]

No we are not. Get lost p9s trumptard troll.

[@brozius]

@@danyboy1477 It's a bot.

[@user-jg6ph2ql3q]

Trump save America!!🙏

[@steverichards1482]

calm down cult member.

[@danyboy1477]

Get lost trumptard

[@Mustapha1963]

My handy "Progressive-English Dictionary" defines "fascists" as "any policy or person with which I do not agree". Oh...and Biden is acting far more like a fascist than Trump ever has.

[@aaronhrynyk]

So lame.

[@wellhellothere6347]

Yes, fascism is lame.

[@TheBeautifulWindsofAragon]

What do you mean?

[@marco12377]

@@TheBeautifulWindsofAragon There's no meaning to his comment, if there was he would have included it...

[@X2LR8]

And what do we call trying to throw your political opponents in prison? Ha Ha! What' that?

[@DJF1947]

Will Trump get rid of professors who cannot speak adequate American? That's a vote-winner.

[@mooty765]

Hiw trump became your president again 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@marco12377]

Why are all your comments filled with laughing emojis? You ok bud?

[@mooty765]

@@marco12377 why are you concerned with what I do and not the point 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 mufuckas said emojis like in not following the trendy internet code 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂let me guess your next tired response will be...your cringe bro !!!!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣Yeah you weirdo liberals have a unique way of avoiding the obvious......does that make you money in real life ?? asking for a friend 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@mooty765]

@@marco12377 maybe I should take a how to Internet workshop so I can be as awesome as you 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@mooty765]

@@marco12377 how dare you talk about someone else's emojis!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@bobsully4350]

​@@marco12377 He is mentally ill, that's why.

[@nigelalanwood6781]

I had inappropriate showers with my father .Ashley Bidens diary.

[@user-je6xq7le9m]

Not even remotely true - total right-wing distortion of her private writings (and she said as much in a letter to the courts when the person who stole her diary was on trial). Your guy, the orange Mussolini, not only raped women and boasted about grabbing them by the genitals but thought it was cute to say if Ivanka wasn't his daughter he'd be dating her.

[@c04261984]

“If Ivanka wasn’t my daughter I’d be dating her”-Trump

[@nigelalanwood6781]

@c04261984 ," if "

[@danyboy1477]

Get lost p9s trumptard troll

[@brozius]

@@nigelalanwood6781 Ashley herself said it wasn't true.

[@markderamo9229]

Too bad for David that America wants TRUMP!!!!! 🤗😄😉😊😄

[@TheScaramongus]

Obviously that is not true, don't be daft. Some of the people in America want Trump but many others do not. Be real.

[@sootvilleaustin2995]

I want trump - sent to prison but would prefer he be sent back to hell where he came from.

[@kingmichaelthelastwarrior]

confederate america

[@micheleconner5083]

No,America doesn't want 45. Only the ignorant 30%

[@sootvilleaustin2995]

I want trump - in prison, but prefer he be in his golf course with his ex-wife.

[@The-Mask021]

The constitution is right wing bu definition. And Fascism by definition is Left wing

[@michaelhellmer8531]

Nice try,

[@Laughing.Waters.]

Fascism is considered a far-right political ideology, not a left-wing one.

[@marco12377]

Your grammar and spelling are terrible. I guess the Right-wing war on education is working...

[@mikehart5619]

Italian Fascism defined itself as a 3rd Way that was neither left nor right.

[@24Wynn]

Google Fascism. It's a right wing ideology.