How Trump's proposed tariffs could affect bikes/Why your bike is made in Asia (2/3)

[@BrianRPaterson]

This is a solid piece of well-sourced journalism. I'm looking forward to the next one on brands. Way to go Ben!

[@craigrandall5138]

Agreed. This was so informative and interesting.

[@rdkuless]

my dad sold 4 acres of old farm equipment, the Steel company out of Meridian ID took away 9 semi loads (91k lbs of crushed up steel... My dad asked if they were going to recycle it an produce new steel.. They said, "no.. We compress it and ship it to China, they do the melting and turning it into raw steel.. BUT DON'T WORRY.. we will get it all back one day". If the USA had steel plants that took scrap steel and melted it into bars of steel. and forged it, we could do everything here and not pay those tariffs on steel products.. It is our own fault..

[@Mapdec]

Great vid Ben. Well done for going full length on this

[@burronorteno]

Ben is in bed with the bike companies pushing this crap down our throats. I hope these greedy jerks and the journos who hawk this stuff all go under.

[@brockjennings]

Being much older and nearing the end of my cycling odyssey, I decided to purchase a new Litespeed. It was kind of refreshing having open lines of communication with the company and helping to maintain a titanium bicycle frame crafting presence domestically.

[@seanparker5595]

They will become competitively priced unless their Ti tubes are imported from China.

[@BrianRPaterson]

@@seanparker5595 Don't forget all the other things that go into a bicycle. All the Shimano gear is made in Asia. SRAM stuff is manufactured in Taiwan Asia. The majority of tyres are made overseas (i.e. outside the USA). Tariffs on those products will wipe out the benefits of a competitively priced US-made frame.

[@StickmanAirsoftPH]

My dude, everything else you will attach on that frame will come from Asia.

[@dominicbritt]

Components are all imported and will be subjected to new tariffs

[@PeterSdrolias]

My too. But, I have a problem. I live in Canada and wish to purchase a titanium bike from the US. I have already decided to swallow the exchange…but, don’t think I can handle 25% on top of that.😡

[@neugentcycling938]

Ben - I advertised in the first BR@IN. I have had an ongoing conversation with Marc Sani about how much consumers would love to hear about the industry and insiders info on what is really going on for the last 40 years. Thank you for providing that and for featuring Steve Frothingham, someone I respect for his AP inspired nose for the real news and facts.

[@PeterAbraham-x1z]

Great series of videos Ben...I watched all three in their entirety. Well done.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Tariffs may have an immediate effect on brands, but tariffs are not about immediate effects, but long term goals. The goal is to generate wealth domestically, keep that wealth domestic, significantly increase the domestic standard of living. If on-shoring companies or processes of companies causes problems initially, it won't be a problem in the long term. Globalism has been the reason all of this current system runs the way it does. Nationalism will make a lot of changes. The ever decreasing value of currency, the rigging of manufacturing costs in trading nations, and Federal government operation costs and litigation problems drives everything in the direction it has been going, for well over 100 years.

[@larryt.atcycleitalia5786]

Sure! Like it worked with washing machines during Don-the-Con's previous term? Josh P. pointed it out with the bit about the company promo bit Trump/Pence did...6 months later that plant was empty.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 You'll have to zoom out from your microscopic perspective and see a bigger picture.

[@TomB-fs8sv]

Do the math on the labor rates but they charge 12k for a bike ? Corporate greed at it’s best

[@erich8258]

Yes the margins on S-Works and the like are very high, but no one needs these bikes anyway. Focusing on whether or not rich people are getting ripped off is pointless. If the lower-level bikes double in price, it's going to suck for everyone, and you can blame that squarely on tariffs.

[@huawei755]

The workers gets nothing..

[@derekmattice3077]

you are forgetting materials, tooling, engineering, component suppliers, etc. The labor cost is a small part of total cost, especially coming out of Asia.

[@huawei755]

@@derekmattice3077 "Materials, tooling, engineering,. components"

[@derekmattice3077]

@@huawei755 no kidding, they are amortized into the cost of goods sold. I was referring to the frame’s cost of labor which is what was cited in the video and the comment made that a bike shouldn’t cost $12K. I would have never guessed the other inputs also require labor. Thanks for your knowledge.

[@jenneryaeso8947]

Super informative video. Thanks for putting this together.

[@robertm1552]

Taiwan tariffs? Don’t think so. China tariffs? Think so. Analysis done in 30seconds.

[@universe-juice]

@@robertm1552 HA!

[@AMehta-ok5pf]

At 3 minutes into the video there a quote from a CEO that says the "all in" wage for a bike maker employee in Myanmar is $60 - and that it takes about 160-190 to make a carbon frame. So I am going to assume that this is a "higher end" frame. The average wage for a person in Myanmar is almost $300 per month. So this company is getting the lowest level people to build their bikes and charging up to $6000 USD for the frame. Not many companies making bikes in Myanmar. Easy to identify who that is. I hope these tariffs causes companies to Pivot away from their current business model.

[@jonathanzappala]

This has been a great series.

[@0HereForAGoodTime0]

Can I just say Josh's audio was smooth like butter! Not a pop or hiss anywhere 👍🏽impressive!

[@Hunttherider]

Great insights - kudos to you for extending beyond the typical cycling content bubble.

[@newttella1043]

Delaney is actually a journalist. Most KZbinrs are just opinions and reactive.

[@troyhamiltonwhite]

The bike industry is well overdue for a market correction. COVID / Corporate greed and $6k frames = bubble burst.

[@nationsnumber1chump]

Giant in reality hasn't raised prices. In 2014 a top tier TCR was still 7k with dura-ace.

[@troyhamiltonwhite]

@@stevehansen7895 Tool? Wow. Ok. Happy Thanksgiving Steve Hansen.

[@dengar1313]

Bicycles, homes, vehicles, groceries, cloths, electronics, etc. All industries are well overdue for a market correction. Bubble burst, market crashes, etc. I hate them all, but they are needed.

[@dominicbritt]

No one forces you to buy the $6K bike frame… there will always be the top of the range anything for those who can afford it…

[@dengar1313]

@@dominicbritt Top of the range isn't the problem. It's when the top of the range prices trickle down to entry level items.

[@bpinsf]

Excellent reporting! Thank you

[@Peaceman5790]

Excellent video with informed and nuanced perspectives. Refreshing change.

[@kubackjeee]

My dear friend Poland is not eastern Europe. It's actually in the exact center of Europe :)

[@derekmattice3077]

Poland labor cost is similar to the eastern bloc countries, it’s lower than France, Germany, England, etc.

[@kubackjeee]

@derekmattice3077 and french labor cost is similar to American, but it does not mean than France is in north America

[@derekmattice3077]

@@kubackjeee that’s quite a jump considering Poland was classified as an eastern bloc country up until the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. France is nowhere near the US geographically.

[@kubackjeee]

@@derekmattice3077 Poland is free from Russian occupation since 1991 as you said. It's time to stop calling it eastern Europe because it makes zero sense. The geographical center of Europe is in Poland, and in all encyclopedias it is labeled as central Europe. So calling it eastern Europe is wrong on many levels

[@TheRidewithBenDelaney]

Thank you.

[@scorpionbikewheels1308]

I'm Portugal just one factory makes over 1 million bikes. Orbea and Parlee are made there just to name a few. Sram has a factory there too

[@vbnxt]

Speaking of prices, Eager to watch your video on best value/budget gravel bikes

[@christianverry4878]

This is a brilliant piece. So well done. Nice work. Now I want to hear from the companies that make their bikes in the US, like Allied. How will they potentially be impacted by the tariffs?

[@TheRidewithBenDelaney]

US brands are next up. Working on that now.

[@PhilRotz]

Thanks for a fulsome discussion of this topic, Ben. 👊

[@donwinston]

I don’t believe Trump can do this without a vote in Congress but I don’t recall a vote last time. These tariff proposals are bonkers stupid.

[@TimR123]

That WAS different 🙂 Certainly don't want the channel to be all hour-long talking head videos. But I WOULD like to see more of these in the mix. The business side is interesting.

[@jackiegammon2065]

Thank You for all of the info! I'm a small shop owner , and like most, trying to figure out what to do or what not to do., I keep wondering why the masses will continue to vote for folks that are hurting our country and its business, but that's a topic for another day. Thanks Again!

[@roospike]

Over the years watching jobs in manufacturing go overseas to China and such I don't remember any one time the customers in the United States getting discounts for the lower prices and everything stays the same. Greed

[@jayobannon5359]

@@roospike you should have been born in 1950 and had the privilege of watching the corporate state reclaim it’s primacy over the republic. It is ludicrous, the last of my cohort of dissidents is dying off, good luck to those in the future

[@GHinWI]

Manufactured goods have gotten MUCH cheaper with Chinese production. Look at the inflation-adjusted price for TVs as an example. Many things we’re getting dramatically higher feature content with the (inflation-adjusted) price staying close. Cars for example-a car from the ‘90s was hilariously basic compared to what you get for similar money today-that’s because many of the complex parts are made in Asia.

[@scottl8469]

@@GHinWI, what about durability? They are part of what are (were) “durable items.” We now live in a “landfill economy.” Where products are designed to fail and to be replaced. Design generally has become poor and “featurization” is the game for manufacturing these days. At least gravel cycling is still being refined, but we will be settling on systems that work the best for that as well soon.

[@therealcountrybumpkin]

Agreed. It’s all greed. We need to stop supplying countries that hate us with manufacturing opportunities.

[@roospike]

@@GHinWI TV's example and such are of adjustments in technology imho and not of made in China, new technology always starts out high and gradually comes down in price as the technology becomes common.

[@yumyumhungry]

Some of those salary figures for asian manufacturers are staggeringly low...It's hard not to feel like I have been participating in some gross labor exploitation as the global west has been accused of.

[@frontierlandfrank5314]

Right? tbh it’s disgusting these folks are making $60 a month.

[@seanparker5595]

I did the maths a few years ago. Taiwanese workers get a little less than Italians. So, a worker on a Giant frame gets about the same as a worker on a Colnago in Italy. I don't feel that Taiwanese are being exploited. Chinese however, for components, different story.

[@frontierlandfrank5314]

@ how does that work out? Seems hard to believe.

[@frontierlandfrank5314]

@@Lifesurfer001-iq7nf I bought 3 bikes this year, I’m good for a while.

[@dominicbritt]

Duh… it’s the countries who set these salaries not their customers…

[@AdamGross-j6d]

Asia has just flat-out become better at manufacturing than us. So, when you're talking about making a bike, it's not just labor cost on the assembly line. As Ben pointed out, the tooling - a much higher value capital good - is far cheaper as well. Trying to re-shore bike manufacturing would not just lead to exorbitant prices. It would lead to a decrease in quality of the end product as well. The tariffs are just a tax. Nothing more. And when you tax something it gets more expensive. Governments use this to good effect when talking about alcohol, tobacco, gambling, or other sin taxes. Increase costs reduce consumption. The only thing the tariffs will accomplish for bikes is reducing the number of them sold.

[@derekmattice3077]

There’d be no decrease in quality, Asia isn’t doing anything the rest of the world can’t do with regards to design or quality on a bike frame. But prices would go up. Now if you are talking about battery tech there I would agree that Asia is more advanced.

[@AdamGross-j6d]

@ I deal with Asian tooling manufacturers. I agree that they don’t have better technology than we do. But they’re more experienced and there’s a recurring cost to capital goods. Molds have to be made with every new product generation. If those molds cost too much then it slows development down, small errors don’t get corrected, and over time, the product you have isn’t as good as what you would have if it wasn’t so overwhelmingly expensive to upgrade.

[@derekmattice3077]

@@AdamGross-j6d their molds cost less because their government subsidizes materials and manufacturing costs. China’s goal is to bankrupt the West and gain their IP. They are racking up debt to try and make this happen.

[@markmoreno7295]

Sad. My Co-Motion Divide and my Ibis Ripley are crying. Their parts must certainly be made in Taiwan or China like my carbon Gates belt, my Yoshimura Chilao pedals, or my Velocity wheels with Industry Nine hubs. It would be nice if we could make good stuff in the USA too.

[@jeffreycohen8511]

very well done

[@brucehumphries6889]

Allied builds them here, Ibis built an Exie here. It can be done. And Allied cost isn’t any more than Specialized

[@SamuelBlackMetalRider]

Not the same quantity though. SCALE is the issue. How frames SPECIALIZED produce each year compared to these niche brands? X100? More?

[@SQK1261]

​@@SamuelBlackMetalRiderSpecialized outsources their production just like many others including Trek and other major brands do.

[@SamuelBlackMetalRider]

@@SQK1261 so? The issue is SCALING. Sure niche handmade frames are made in the US. But like they make a few hundreds frame a year? So no it cannot be done in the US when we’re talking about 10,000 frames made per year…

[@osp1999]

@@SamuelBlackMetalRidermy ibis exie, USA built has better quality than my Sworks epic World Cup!! And it was significantly less costly to purchase!… scale yes, but could be improved

[@derekmattice3077]

Allied is owned by a Walton family investment fund who are into cycling (which is why Bentonville, Arkansas has seen so much infrastructure growth for cycling). I would bet Allied strives to break even, if they are lucky.

[@wiflingm]

You have been electing an impostor. Now go and live with that. Sorry not sorry.

[@Octobersky-e7x]

CONGRADULATIONS!!!!!-- " actual, relevant content."

[@RyonBeachner]

For those of you in the comments shouting about how the bike manufacturers need a day of reckoning for their alleged price gouging, can you please share with me exactly where the event horizon is between “Corporate greed” and a company being run properly and profitably? What profit margin is moral? When does the evil really set in? I’m genuinely curious how this lines up with reality, as I suspect it’s not. If people actually saw the financial realities relative to risk, I bet they would keep their jobs. If that weren’t true, we would probably see a massive groundswell of low cost, high tech bikes entering the market and displacing the incumbent brands.

[@davidparker8475]

Thanks Ben. Very interesting series which lends to seeing the industry through several different lenses. Personally, I think Trump uses tariffs as a serious bargaining chip. Also believe he'll use it to get what he wants for the USA. I think I'll send your three part series to my congressman and senators to assure they're also seeing perspectives touch upon.

[@KeepRift]

Really amazing video Ben with some great industry insider perspectives, free of political opinion. Great job!

[@AMehta-ok5pf]

If the exemptions expired, and the tariffs came back, why did the price of State bikes not go up?

[@davidmailander8165]

Add to all of this a consumer base that is shrinking by the day. Exception e-bikes.

[@gregmorrison7320]

Don't have much to add as I'm not in US but back in the 80's in NZ our Prime Minister Muldoon increased taxes on imports (and tanked our economy) and in 1985 I bought a new MX bike and it was in the $3000.00 range, the next year I bought another after the tax changes and it had roughly doubled in price, it was in the $6000.00 range, ouch! We still bought them but it hurt.

[@mattmacpherson1033]

Taiwan is not China so more Taiwan less mainland. Maybe helps US frame makers

[@kevins.9547]

EXACTLY MY POINT, Taiwan IS NOT China (read up on history and geography), so a potential BIG difference here…..Specialized and other top US brands build their high quality carbon in Taiwan….

[@tommyfreckmann6857]

​@@kevins.9547negatory on Specialized. All of their frames, even S-Works is made in China.

[@AnnaMidwinter-t3j]

According to Statista the average cost of a bicycle in the USA in 2023 was $400, not $5000 or more.

[@adamgurule1458]

"As goods increase, so do those who consume them. And what benefit are they to the owners except to feast their eyes on them? The sleep of a laborer is sweet, whether they eat little or much, but as for the rich, their abundance permits them no sleep." Ecclesiastes 10-14

[@schwinnguy]

I just wanted to point out, the economy as a whole would benefit from this. The tariff is leverage to get another country to lower their's. We (the USA) is excluded from trading on an even playing feild with other countries. China is especially guilty for this.

[@LifeCycle1978]

I am no expert and this is just my opinion but tariffs have the potential of killing off struggling cycling companies. The rest will pass down prices to customers on an already expensive hobby. Although cycling will never go away, it will most certainly struggle to reach a large swath of already struggling consumers.

[@valiantabello]

You are correct. I work in finance/supply chain management and yes, you are right.

[@SamuelBlackMetalRider]

I can’t wait to see the price of the Tarmac SL9… $20,000 ?

[@huawei755]

It's not the consumers that will struggle but the producers.

[@LifeCycle1978]

@@huawei755producers will struggle until the market stabilizes. But the growth that came out COVID will all but disappear under higher costs

[@LifeCycle1978]

@@huawei755consumers are struggling with high prices and that’s just for goods required to live. Cycling is just a hobby and will be the first thing cut

[@BartSchrijvers]

Isn't it true that corporate greed caused this mess in the first place? Allowing corporations to seek the cheapest labor and outsource production has been a cheat code for decades, enabling another level of short-term profits that benefit shareholders and C-level executives, not the end consumer, not the public, not the government. Also, price elasticity has been stretched to its limits, meaning profits will decline exponentially from here on out. It painfully highlights what they should have done instead of raking in all the profits of the past few years (e-bike revolution and COVID peak sales). Invest in R&D, manufacturing efficiency, and local production. Change is hard, especially when it requires sacrifices. COVID, for example, forced a large portion of the working population to move home. Now, 4 years later, people are still struggling to return to the office on a daily basis, simply put, they have become accustomed to the comfort. In the same way I am deeply irritated by the way things are done at a corporate level, I hope they will be humble about what is coming. No bonus this year, go back to basics, be lean and fight instead of being comfortable with reaping the rewards. I am happy to accept these tariffs, it may not be good for business on the short term, but I do believe it will benefit us all in the long run. We have to accept that not all companies can be profitable, especially if they already struggle to survive with the 'cheat code'.

[@larryt.atcycleitalia5786]

"I am happy to accept these tariffs, it may not be good for business on the short term, but I do believe it will benefit us all in the long run." Look back at when President McKinley thought tariffs were a great idea and how well that worked out.

[@BartSchrijvers]

@@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 invested my time into researching McKinley and the answer is really simple, you have to, if you can, differentiate materials from products, and local from foreign companies (if applicable). Applied in a smart manner, there’s nothing wrong with tariffs while you still have the power to negotiate. China applied them for decades and “forced” western companies into producing locally (not to mention also forcing them to give up a stake in the company).

[@devinbyrnes8058]

Devinci bicycles can make their aluminum bikes in Canada? Why can't State?

[@chrisball3412]

I remember when Trump raised tariffs on the bicycles. The prices did go up and they stayed up. That’s why perhaps they’re so expensive nowadays yeah probably will go up again.

[@johndunbar2393]

Bring back USA manufacturing. That's what I hope comes out of all of this. Cut regulations and level the playing field a bit.

[@kokonanana1]

That’s the goal!

[@speciesofspaces]

I mean it really does feel like an addiction. Well on our way to some serious withdrawals but hopefully better off in the long run. No matter who is at the helm. I look forward to there being more "slack" in our economy but probably only if it isn't narrowly set on continuous growth. This all reminds me of the drum beat of technology. The word from tech companies is always not to restrain it on the grounds it brings solutions to problems created by, yes, the technology itself. The familiar vicious cycle. I am old enough now to know "technical fixes" are not real solutions. They merely push the origin of the problem onto the next generation. Let's hope this isn't happening with the bike makers and the cycling market at large. If we all can learn to own our bikes forever and demand less stuff with more resilience then maybe we'll make it.

[@jazzfan7491]

Great discussion. Tricky issue. I came away thinking the tariffs are really for huge industries like steel and the auto industry, but the bike industry might be collateral damage.

[@mattregan9134]

Does Farsi say that State obtained the exemption with first Trump administration before Parlee? At 15:50 he says Parlee called him after he got approved. I think he's saying he was actually first with that. I guess it ultimately doesn't matter but Parlee seems to be getting a lot of the credit

[@TheRidewithBenDelaney]

He was first, yes. But his exemption was for metal frames, and Parlee’s was for carbon.

[@galenkehler]

The volatility of this economic policy has got to be hard on business owners, and ultimately such variability has got to be bad for business.

[@ellerybice3787]

Increase bike demand through Banning automobiles! Increase the populations health as a whole. Or if not the mortuary business

[@scorpionbikewheels1308]

Easy answer. Ship bikes to Taiwan, Vietnam or other country 95% incomplete (handle bar off) And ship from there with new "made in" label. Been there done that . Famous man's suits come in Philippines come to US and all they do is remove the made in tab and stitch a new one saying made in the US. Pronto

[@nationsnumber1chump]

China to Taiwan then America 🤔 no bueno 😂

[@Milo-wl2if]

So tax fraud is the answer? Revenue services might have worked out your genius scam.

[@dominicbritt]

Did you miss the part about 25-40% increase in shipping prices in 2022?

[@Peregrino.51]

That last dude’s audio was really hard to listen to. Too much mouth noises yet low audio…but I really wanted to get through it. Stellar content nonetheless.

[@davidvonslingshot]

right now, trying to unfvck the market from the covid boom - the bicycle industry has fallen off of a cliff. big tarrifs are going to destroy business it’s an extremely short sighted policy.

[@DDai-qd8uk]

Stop complaining and Make America Great Again! Buy local and build our country back up.

[@danielakerman8241]

You expect to keep the largest economy the world has ever seen afloat by encouraging people to buy from mom and pop shops? Hate to break it to ya, but that won’t Make America Great.

[@jayobannon5359]

Easy answer, go out and buy a custom, bespoke, hand made in America bike. How hard is that.

[@Milo-wl2if]

Those bikes will cost even more with tariffs on imported materials. Less choice and less bikes available.

[@cjohnson3836]

And for those people looking for entry bikes? You know, the vast majority of buyers. What for them, fuckwit?

[@burronorteno]

Amen brotha!

[@larryt.atcycleitalia5786]

And make a bike out of it using components from....CHINA. Ooops!

[@cjohnson3836]

@@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 Few components from major brands are produced in China. Shimano produces their lower end stuff increasingly in Malaysia as Japanese companies have been moving out of China for years now, due to geopolitics. All Shimano's higher end stuff (105 and up) are built in their domestic factory. Most of SRAM's components are built in Portugal or Taiwan. There's a reason why Chinese components are so far behind in quality, because China does not have the engineering history for most of these that you all ignorantly think they have. They're good at laying carbon into frames that sort of all have the same shape. They're not very good at precision manufacturing.

[@Stealthwealth1001]

The bike companies will all be looking for loopholes to get around the tariffs. They will adjust pricing to test the appetite for their products. The current crop of large scale companies like Specialized/Cannondale has so much less quality of craftsmanship. It sucks seeing brand new bikes with ovalized bottom bracket holes, overspray on mounting hardware, and forks and seat posts with recalls.

[@rdkuless]

the USA is the only country that doesn't have high tariffs on imported products.. That is the reason there are no USmade cars (ford, chevy, etc...) sold in china.. the Chinese car consumers buy comparable quality Chinese cars without paying the Chinese tariff.. if the USA put tariffs on all chinese cars that are comparable quality to our US cars, that would level the playing field and the American made cars would have an equal market for the Chinese consumers.. Same with bikes.. fact all frames are welded in Taiwan or China.. We design the bike geometry and specs, they weld, if they throw on paint (to prevent rusting in shipping) and ship the frame to the US manufacturer that puts on all the components, We can call these bikes Made in America.. The Tariffs level the playing field.. We don't sell many bikes in China because of the tariffs they place on our goods.. but When tariffs are placed on imports, it makes them too expensive for American consumers.. AND China relies on the US Consumer to stay in business. They do not want to give up the profits made on the backs of American consumers. So they will lower the cost to off set their losses in sales.. Tariffs are a simple leveraging tool.. we are now able to sell in the Chinese markets and China will lower their prices to offset the US Tariffs to avoid loosing the American market place.. Ask the bigQUESTION: Why is the USA the only country to not place tariffs on imports..?

[@kokonanana1]

Why not use the fine-toothed comb now? Why wait til you are forced to do it to survive? You could then lower prices to the consumer!

[@marciomvp9458]

Best decision long term.

[@johnlesoudeur3653]

""Rise of extreme far right parties" in Europe. Last Silca product that I will buy. This guy does not understand what is happening to Europe.

[@larryt.atcycleitalia5786]

He doesn't? Giorgia Meloni in Italy, Victor Orban in Hungary? Do you need more examples?

[@johnlesoudeur3653]

@@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 These people are not far right, do not swallow the propaganda. Have a listen to the interview of Orban with Tucker Carlson...unless you have been captured by the MSM and lost the ability of any critical thinking.

[@larryt.atcycleitalia5786]

@@johnlesoudeur3653 You showed your grasp of the issues when you wrote you think Tucker Carlson is worth listening to...the clown who thought Russia invented the shopping cart that you need to put a coin into to use. Folks like you need to get out more. I live in the EU and see what Meloni and Orban think is great government policy - the same stuff Mussolini and Hitler championed.

[@oblio9147]

Let's see who paid attention...who pays for tariffs?

[@derekmattice3077]

and when Trump instituted tariffs back in 2019, the US producers raised their prices to match the imported costs of raw materials like steel and aluminum. It was simply a price increase to the importer of record in the US and did not herald any return of US manufacturing.

[@jayobannon5359]

@@derekmattice3077if the costs can be passed on, there will never be incentive to invest capital into manufacturing. That is the capitalist end game for a financialized economy.

[@drdumbo9124]

@@derekmattice3077talk about the part where Trump tanked the economy like he did his businesses.

[@nipplegripple8581]

Sadly we should never have given control of the global supply chain to one country some 40 years ago in the name of globalism.....it was a dodgy partnership. Early on it became clear that the plan to convert China into a Western thinking nation and the hope that communism would die out there was not going to happen.....Chinese business practice is very challenging. Decades later they are now more than just a competitor...a u turn on China should have started 20 years ago...but corporate greed came into play, and here we are....​ This goes alot deeper than Trump. @@derekmattice3077

[@derekmattice3077]

@@jayobannon5359 it didn’t bring jobs back, that’s definite. In 2019 the supply chain largely absorbed the raw material increases. If tariffs go on finished goods, the consumer will see an impact. If it doesn’t impact sales then you could see some industry return but in a sales slump there is no incentive to invest capital at risk for a lengthy or never realized return.

[@dominicbritt]

Tariffs will mean that you’ll pay $6K for a 105/Sram rival bike…

[@stevenagy7152]

This (tariffs) only enriches the rent seekers, American manufacturing and retailing only suffers.

[@facelesssman]

Evidently, you’re ignorant of the use of tariffs.

[@stevenagy7152]

Great example of Trek that Poertner used regarding cash terms and cash flow of end retailers, explains why Trek took their store corporate and reduced the SKU count. The local owner is essentially forced to seek the business given the squeeze that they felt.

[@facelesssman]

Thank God for the pragmatic election of Donald Trump!

[@JFomo]

As long as my groceries go down I'm OK with it. I made the right choice in buying an awesome when I did. Buy one cry once.

[@Milo-wl2if]

Your grocery prices are only going one way and that is up and more quickly with tariffs and deporting agricultural workers.

[@cjohnson3836]

Your grocery bill is about go to go through the roof because fuckwits can't comprehend that immigrants pick veg for cheap

[@FiniteResources7734]

Can you explain how tariffs on Chinese bikes will reduce the price of groceries ?

[@petersouthernboy6327]

Almost every Country has import tariffs. For example, Germany has a 19% tax on imports and Denmark is 25%. And they all typically run a trade surplus with the US. And I’m also sure that if they would drop their tariffs - the US would reciprocate. In the end - a deal will get done.

[@clay_does_stuff]

The US already has import tariffs. The proposed trump tariffs are in addition to existing rates.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

@ The United States currently has a trade-weighted average import tariff rate of 2.0 percent on industrial goods. One-half of all industrial goods imports enter the United States duty free. For all other goods, the average tariff rate is 5.63%

[@cjohnson3836]

So we know Peter drank the koolaid and voted Trumptard

[@RyanKime]

Great video Ben! I would love to see you and Peter Zeihan talk tariffs concerning China and the bike industry. He’s based out of Colorado as well. Here’s his latest video discussing China and potential upcoming tariffs: kzbin.info/www/bejne/o2rXhHh-rc2Zgrssi=tY9Rd75iSzxo5DrB

[@DerrickLytlephoto]

But if the federal reserve con is eliminated then maybe we can get normalized prices. (Pipe dream I know but maybe)

[@universe-juice]

Enve, parlee, felt oh and TIME! Im ok with it 👍

[@brucehumphries6889]

TREK and the like could also change the bike model for their shops. Make bikes for distribution centers, demo bikes in the shop, with a drop ship lead time of three days. Have the inventory displayed that a shop knows what’s there and they can do demos for a price allocated back to the bike purchase. TREK and the like should be able to do projections of what they need I build. Could also keep a line longer than a year cycle.

[@ccbanger1414]

The bicycle Industry is holding us to ransom outrageous prices, hopefully the Chinese brands will take over the bigger bike brands🙏🙏Yoeleo bike have a great deal on frames bars and wheels around 2,100 euro

[@scorpionbikewheels1308]

Get your stuff from China NOW stock up and Wait for tariffs to go up then you can make a ton of money.

[@saxon1376]

If you love your country maybe you should think less about money and more about the future of your country

[@CM-ft9ep]

'Future of the country' involves, what, exactly?

[@toomaslehtonen5055]

I think you’ll find that the future of any country, really, has a lot to do with money, in fact.

[@saxon1376]

If you want China to rule the world just so you can get a cheap bike

[@seanmccuen6970]

@@toomaslehtonen5055 thanks for that pearl, fkwit.

[@frontierlandfrank5314]

@@CM-ft9epnational reinvestment, stopping the flow of drugs that are literally offing citizens on the daily, holding the country accountable that caused the pandemic, holding a country accountable for repeatedly stealing and using patents and tech that our own citizens invent. Shall I go on?

[@GummeeH3]

A lot of y'all are assuming that there A. definitely will be tariffs B. that there won't be ways around them and C. that the tariffs are going to take effect immediately. IOW 'the sky is falling!'

[@markxkovacic]

Yes, there is a concept of a plan.

[@GummeeH3]

@@markxkovacic so you're still guessing ;on a plan?'

[@John-tf2we]

RE point A: but the president-elect promised! Are you saying he won't keep on his word? I'm shocked I tell you, shocked.😅

[@GummeeH3]

@@John-tf2we No. I'm saying that he may not be able to keep that promise because of some other reason. Theoretically congress makes tariffs

[@RoadHammer123]

You cannot be blaming Trump for the greed of the bike industry. The bike industry is like those bankers on wall street. Who on earth charges $5000+ for a China-made 105 spec bike. The bike industry gave away the manufacturing to China to save themselves money. Those savings have never been passed on to the customer. It all comes down to greed with no regard for the customer.

[@drdumbo9124]

No but we can blame him when he inevitably tanks the economy….. again. Because his policies make zero sense unless you’re a billionaire. Big surprise the failed businessman trust fund baby is bad with money.

[@derekmattice3077]

The bike industry is not nearly as sophisticated or well connected as Wall Street bankers. Wouldn’t it make sense if a profit could be made on a carbon fiber 105 bike at $2,500-$3,500 USD that one company would do it and steal the market from their competition? Most manufacturer equivalent price points seem to be of very similar component spec offerings. Inflation is a global phenomenon due to a number of factors.

[@ricksmith2127]

Literally 90% of the things you buy are made out of country. Just take a look in your closet and let me know how many of your clothes say “made in america”

[@chivacetana]

I would pay a lot more if it was made in America. You can thank Al Gore, the dems regulation and corporate greed for all this. Somthing has to be done for the government debt.

[@Woodpeckercycleco]

If you’re being honest you could do this right now. There are quite a few bicycle manufacturers in the us. Go ahead. Buy one.

[@rrluthi1]

@@Woodpeckercycleco lol

[@frontierlandfrank5314]

@@Woodpeckercyclecomost aren’t even close to the level of the top brands in tech though.

[@seanparker5595]

Without environmental regulation comes Chinese style air quality as well as Chinese style manufacturing. Without regulation comes Chinese style safety and wages.... Careful what you wish for.

[@frontierlandfrank5314]

@ lets not use one end of the spectrum to justify the other. That’s silly and unproductive. The west would never swing that way and pull back all regulations on environment and safety. Let’s keep this in the realm of reality.

[@ktb5741]

Just move the manufacturing back to the United States.

[@huawei755]

So how much would the complete us made bike cost then and would you afford it? Americans will have to buy what they produce themselves.

[@galenkehler]

Do you understand how monumental that shift would be? The US doesn't have the raw materials, or the manufacturing capacity or expertise to actually do that.

[@huawei755]

@@galenkehler And the labour cannot afford to consume what they produce themselves.

[@frontierlandfrank5314]

@@galenkehlerwe could definitely do it in within 5-10 years.

[@huawei755]

@@frontierlandfrank5314 You cannot afford to buy what you produce. The main export of US is your currency not goods.

[@jayobannon5359]

Taiwan is China, don’t obfuscate!

[@GHinWI]

No

[@drill_fiend1097]

Social Credit score grinding is wild Taiwan will be separate from manland China, face it.

[@ellerybice3787]

Kokomamansnansnana, ​​⁠should not, but will. Honesty and integrity is not part of the supply pipeline, there is simply no valve for it to injected into the flow. 🇺🇸 + 🇨🇦 = 👍🏻🫡