How We Used the Moon to Send Radio Messages

In the early days of the Cold War, it was difficult to send and receive messages across the globe. Before the US launched its first satellite in January 1958, the military tried a creative solution: bouncing radio waves off the Moon.
Host: Reid Reimers
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[@verdatum]

Some amateur radio operators still occasionally do a moon-bounce. It doesn't serve much of a practical purpose, but it gets you pretty big bragging rights in the community if you successfully pull off a communication. Apparently someone pulled off an earth-moon-earth transmission with a little as 3milliwatts of transmission power, which is absolutely mindblowing to me.

[@FrostyDog9186]

Bigger antenna (not necessarily a dish, but probably) = less needed power. These days, you can pull off EME (moon bounce) with less than $2,000 of consumer radio gear and a little bit of skill.

[@JeremyEllwood]

Yeah... most likely a high gain parabolic.

[@zvpunry1971]

One 26m dish in australia and a 25m dish in the netherlands. ;)

[@flyboy67109]

I've done it with a simple $35 145Mhz/440Mhz radio and a homemade antenna. Made it to the other side of the country with only 5 watts of power. The antenna was a dual band Yagi antenna made from PVC pipe and wire from a coat hanger. People that haven't done this will deny it but I've got a QSL card to prove it so I don't really care.

[@zvpunry1971]

What was the callsign of the other station? It was probably one of the well known big guns. They are crazy enough to spend all their money and time into the hobby and allow "normal" people to have EME contacts with a do it yourself yagi and a cheap radio from china. ;) www.73.ru/?view=144equipment

[@ellygreening5616]

I think Reid is such a good host, he really engages the audience and seems to have a real interest in the information he's relaying. Thank you for being brilliant Scishow!

[@g8sbs944]

Im a Radio Ham and have done moon bounce many times dating back from the 70s at that time it was good as we could chat with other Hams in the USA on VHF and UHF

[@syriuszb8611]

I think, that soon enough there will be SciShow videos with EVERY word with its own colour or effect... And even some letters too.

[@dietalkaa]

You can absolutely use moon bounce!!!! No problem with 70cm portable eme communications

[@bluejacketwarrior2457]

Still not as wacky as the idea to flood LEO with strands of copper wire.

[@FifthConcerto]

I saw this video during my reading of "The Three-Body Problem", which discusses an extreme cousin to this. Very cool.

[@robertpaulson2043]

Have the text overlays always been this crazy? Like 10 different colors and font styles. Calm it down a little guys.

[@BertGrink]

I've never seen such before in the roughly one year since i found this channel

[@culwin]

_THEY_ *SURE* -ARE- ⓦⓐⓒⓚⓨ

[@SignalsEverywhere]

ham radio operators still do moonbounce everyday

[@disorganizedorg]

Apparently moonbounce is popular among some amateur radio operators; morse communication in particular using about 2kW and fairly substantial antennae.

[@gazzyw85]

Am i tripping or is the text getting more and more funky

[@porkeyminch8044]

Nope, it's definitely busting a groove

[@ragnkja]

Possibly both, but at least the latter.

[@CrunchsterXX2]

The random fonts and colors feel distracting

[@spshowcase2040]

Amateur Radio Operators use ionospheric skip, meteor scatter and moon bounce to transmit many different types of signals. I have been able to establish 2 way communication from Florida all the way to Europe using only 4 watts and Morse Code via the ionosphere. It is pretty cool.

[@TheExoplanetsChannel]

*Q:What do moon people do when they get married?* *A: They go off on their honeyearth!*

[@John-uj9zy]

EME Earth Moon Earth. Amateur radio operators use moonbounce all the time. Its on my to-do list once I get a directional VHF antenna.

[@tennicktenstyl]

You guys are going too hard on text formatting. Like 1:37, damn that's horrible

[@ShakuntalaF]

Radio waves are the longest waves (1mm to 100km) not short waves, that's why they pass through the atmosphere. Short waves are more likely to be reflected by molecules in the atmosphere (because they are of similar size) or encounter absorption on the atomic scale. Radio telescopes have to be huge to get good resolution.

[@kd1s]

We in the amateur radio community know this as EME or Earth-Moon-Earth. And yes Asteroids too.

[@verdatum]

For some reason, we haven't managed to bounce off the sun yet. (Fellow hammer, checking in!)

[@FrostyDog9186]

Don't forget meteors! de KC5FAZ

[@kd1s]

Yup - that one escaped the memory at the time.

[@gottlichhg]

I remember my dad telling me this in the 70's. He said the military had got the idea from truck drivers. Back then truck drivers were big into amateur radio. How true the story is, I don't know.

[@ΑΡΗΣΚΟΡΝΑΡΑΚΗΣ]

Hugo Gottlich if you consider that the first social networking was done by CB's...

[@MephLeo]

Welp, that communication system was *outta this world*! {}removing.self=1

[@JeremyEllwood]

That's just _lunacy_

[@kf4ung]

Amatuer Radio Operators still use the moon to bounce signals off of for communications. It is called EME (Earth Moon Earth) and they do it as a challenge to use the lowest power and specialized antennas to further our understanding of frequencies and power needed for long range communications. It is actually cool to stand in my backyard in TN with a special YAGI antenna about a meter long and a handheld radio and talk to someone half the world away, by bouncing a signal off the moon. A half a million miles there and back to talk to someone on the other side of the planet. :D Google your local Ham Radio Club and talk to them about it, you might find a new and fun addition to your life.

[@sirjohnahayfalcon]

how does it work , in short

[@copperhamster]

Hams (amateur radio) do EME work from time to time. It's a challenging but fun communication method.

[@1375boots]

Space history is so cool!

[@K8URChannel]

Cool Moonbounce talk! I worked at NRL, am a Ham and have done MoonBounce.. and nobody will hire me today. :(

[@RonOverdrive]

Actually the problem with the ionosphere in terms of reliability isn't so much solar storms/flares, but that depending on how much energy the ionosphere absorbs will dictate what frequency ranges are usable and what rangers aren't. Lower frequency ranges below an optimal point for the frequency range that's best will get absorbed and while frequency ranges above that optimal point will just pass right through. Knowing what frequency range that is optimal can be tricky sometimes especially if we're in the bottom of the solar cycle.

[@drpattiethomas]

1:33 The U.S. never launched a "missile" nuclear attack but let's be clear, the U.S. did did use nuclear bombs to attack twice in August 1945 and remains, to this date, the only force who has done so. The ambiguity of your statement unmarked that important history.

[@Tobysgmc]

Could you bounce a signal off of Hughes DirecTV satellite Southwest of Detroit

[@cadmium-ores]

The text is so colorful in this video. xD

[@photosinensis]

Today, we still do this stuff. EME contacts are still very much a thing. Of course, you either need a lot of power or one hell of an antenna array, but you *can* do it.

[@NewMessage]

The ionosphere is just like my no good little brother.. totally unreliable. But the moon is just like my older brother. Friggin' huge.

[@sebastianelytron8450]

Will you read that message already?

[@101roccat101]

almost 100k more Subscribers and SciShow Space gained 1M Subs.

[@dietalkaa]

Done that been there! :D well not been... but DONE THAT

[@yz250ftony]

Ham amateur extra license mentions EME (earth-moon-earth) comms. 5.76 to 5.7601ghz, 3.4 to 3.4003ghz, 2.4241ghz(japan only), 1.2958 to 1.2962ghz, 432.000 to 432.070mhz, 222.000 to 222.025mhz, 144.000 to 144.050mhz (CW aka morse code), 144.100 to 144.200mhz. So basically 2 meters to 9cm has band plans for EME communications. listen in for it during a full moon! World record was recently set...18,949.4-kilometer contact made.

[@R.Instro]

1:48 - 1:55 "...So risky, the military stopped doing it after 1960." Uh, really? Some SR-71 pilots might beg to differ....

[@devinsword5777]

used to? what do you mean used to? people still do this all the time, theres entire chunks of radio spectrum devoted to it, though now a days its weak signal digital modes that are used

[@Master_Therion]

Radio from the Moon? You mean Looney Tunes.

[@Xatzimi]

underrated comment

[@miabua73]

How you come up with these? It's brilliant!

[@jusTRiPP]

Master Therion im enjoying this joke very much ahAA

[@ZomBeeNature]

Our lunarary luminary 'luminates

[@Master_Therion]

Zom Bee Nature Nice alliteration. Or should I say, Lovely Little 'Litteration.

[@HeathShain]

My wife and I have been debating this question for weeks, please let us know the right answer. If Ganymede was where our moon is, would it still be considered a moon, or would the Earth and Ganymede be binary planets? Since Ganymede is bigger than an actual planet, Mercury, would it be considered a planet if it was close to the Earth since the Earth is several times smaller than Saturn?

[@herranton]

Heath Shain I'm not sure that there is a exact answer for you. The problem is with the definition of "moon". Remember that the moon doesn't orbit the earth, the earth and moon rotate around the barycenter. In our earth/moon system that point is still inside of the planet, but with Pluto and Chiron it isn't. Some people consider Pluto and Chiron to be a binary planet system and not a planet moon system because of this. I would need to do a lot more research on the math to figure out if Ganymede orbiting Earth would result in a similar situation, but I would guess that it would. Do _you_ constider it a moon if both bodies rotate around a point that is outside of either body? There is no scientific consensus on the definition. Though I suspect that if our moon was instantaneously replaced with Ganymede, we probably would have that discussion, after all the hysteria from the massive tides calmed down, of course.

[@midnightcustomz5506]

Can someone help me plz . I'm trying to find out how messages are sent to outer space to be found by another planet one day an how a picture could be sent to travel through space . Basically I was wondering if it's possible for me to send a random message to space with a am radio, like how it could be done. Would u have to use an amplified am radio with a satellite dish to deliver the signal or maybe my question is si fy plz an thx

[@lstein3372]

If you are interested in radio you might want to look into amateur radio. We regularly use moon bounce for digital ( like Morse code and PC to PC com's), voice and even images.

[@JasmineShedd]

Ham radio operators still do this and we call it EME as in Earth Moon Earth

[@sirjohnahayfalcon]

What is the purpose of eme

[@Dwdanieldotdd]

Ham radio operators still use it today! Often referred to as EME or Earth,Moon,Earth. Most often on 144 MHz and higher frequencies. See ARRL pubs for more info. T... W

[@ericpham8205]

If we send unmanned advance antena on the moon or use the high power laser to form by etching an antennae on moon surface

[@jeffbird2983]

EME is still used by some hard core HAM radio operators today.

[@sebastianelytron8450]

Halfway around the world? Ever heard of Alaska?

[@MasterDeanarius]

not to scale? really? that wasn't self explanatory? lmao I know you guys are just being thorough but that genuinely made me giggle

[@ewthmatth]

So it's unusable for the 12 or so hours the moon is below the horizon?

[@anullhandle]

Matthew H yup if you can't see it, it can't see your antenna.

[@rickeisner2922]

Amateur radio operators (HAM) have been doing this from the beginning. Its tought to Novices. its called EME.

[@wallywutsizface6346]

People still do this with HAM radio. Some also even do the same thing with the aurora borealis and meteor showers.

[@AnimMouse]

1:31 The US DID launched an attack, not a missile but a bomber one.

[@admiralpercy]

Soviet messages? You mean radar installations? I'm really confused about why these two things are linked.

[@NoR0adsLeft]

I really dislike the on-screen text that just makes me read exactly what the presenter is saying.

[@danieljensen2626]

You finally linked the episode you mentioned at the end! Now I don't have to go crazy about that every time.

[@ericpham8205]

Or direct current under ocean is good too

[@greenredblue]

OMG a bouncy castle on the moon would be such a good idea! I'm gonna go try it out now! EDIT: Okay, so... there might be a few minor, um, issues.

[@aajjeee]

Dont radars have a *long* wavelenght?

[@anullhandle]

Barnesrino Kripperino There are many different types including spread spectrum. Over the horizon iirc would be some of the longer ones vhf. Most would be closer to wifi or shorter. Some are passive and use "the other guy's" RF source or ambient noise including wifi. HAMs use a wide range of frequencies for moon bounce.

[@aajjeee]

sure, but still it takes a longer wavelenght to not interact with something

[@bethymears2648]

We need a moon base so it easier to travel to Mars and what ever else we can use for a base to get to Mars.

[@JeremyEllwood]

A lot of HAM operators still use Moon Bounce Propagation.

[@TechnikoreHTiD]

bounce houses? is that what the US calls them?

[@JohnDoe-im6lg]

jamie c I’m from Trinidad and Tobago and here we call it bouncy castles

[@UlaisisP]

Got a Q for you wonderful people: Why do we still see the whole moon during the faces that only a part of the moon is being illuminated by the Sun (waxing crescent for instance) if there is not atmosphere to refract the light? Where does that light come from? Earth?

[@attentiontodetale]

UlaisisP - Your guess is correct - It is called "Earthshine" - and is a result of the configuration of the Sun - Moon - Earth - just as a full moon will illuminate the Earth as night, so will a full Earth illuminate the Moon. The Earth is seen as "Full" from the surface of the Moon when we see a "New Moon" from Earth.

[@UlaisisP]

thank you so much, made my day! i went googling earthshine!

[@attentiontodetale]

More poetically - it is also known as the "Old Moon in the New Moon's Arms" - at least it is in the UK

[@tigerforce1239]

I mean, since the moon is considered a natural satellite, it can work right? Right? At least it tried.

[@kindlin]

I saw 0 likes, 0 dislikes, and 40 views when I started. Refresh after watching: 500 views, 65 likes

[@kindlin]

No and, that's all lol. I don't often see a video that early .

[@jshepard152]

1:48 The military stopped doing it, because CIA pilot Francis Gary Powers was shot down on May 1, 1960, while on a reconnaissance flight deep inside the Soviet Union.

[@MirceaKitsune]

I wonder if today this idea could still be used to give oppressive countries uncensored internet or TV. Suppose someone with a lot of money was willing to operate an antenna for this purpose, which sent the right signals toward the moon from the right angle and at the right hour, we could give China a few moments of uncensored internet or North Korea an occidental television station :)

[@Tobysgmc]

Move the dish three degrees

[@Aeturnalis]

American attitude: "we need to know what they're thinking... in case we attack them for existing."

[@MusiCaninesTheMusicalDogs]

But how would they know if the reflected transmissions weren't actually something transmitted originally from the moon, by those aliens whose existence governments hide from us? 😮

[@oscarin13]

Because the operators know the message they sent.

[@philipberthiaume2314]

3:38 satellite on left is Canadian made Alouette 1, launched Sept 29 1962, 55 years ago, making Canada only the third nation on earth to make and operate a satellite after the USSR and USA.

[@MephLeo]

Eh?!

[@-yeme-]

looks more like a Telstar to me

[@philipberthiaume2314]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mWrUoHV6ZtRpprM

[@-yeme-]

yep, definitely a first generation Telstar

[@infinitecanadian]

War can bring forth great inventions.

[@realFoxBox]

"Even though we don't' bounce messages off the moon anymore" This is somewhat incorrect. The government and military don't, however, Amateur Radio operators do. Its not entirely that popular, but its popular enough in the vast hobby of amateur radio. Although we refer to it as EME or Earth - Moon - Earth. You had a great opportunity to talk about it too, and I wish you would have. I've been wanting to get into EME but it requires more equipment than I can afford or have anywhere to place.

[@MarcoRoepers]

What was the first communication satellite? The moon.

[@icebread9335]

*Quantum communication*

[@rogerwilco2]

We do frequent Moon Bounce with the 1956 *Dwingeloo Radio Telescope* 25 meter dish. You can come and visit if you happen to live in the Netherlands *this Sunday October 8 2017* : www.camras.nl/ kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5vUppmQo8ipqLs www.camras.nl/blog/2015/schoolkinderen-openen-open-monumentendag-met-kunst-via-de-maan-vervolg/

[@styx5202]

SciShow space needs sarah

[@_DarkKnight2301_]

The moon is made of cheese.

[@peelingonions]

*crunch crunch*

[@DutchDinosaur]

tru

[@jondunlap1892]

if your cheese crunchy something is wrong

[@necrisro]

The internet is made of cats.

[@quitc126]

And earth is flat

[@ziggyoickle3445]

*not to scale

[@jnco1994]

Ziggy oickle you beat me to it. Well done

[@shitbag.]

That's really cool.

[@jcoronet2000]

hams still do this today

[@ggregory6611]

Ham Radio folks still do this

[@rnelson1415]

Liked for SCIENCE!

[@worldbridger9]

So should work to talk to ET

[@umittaskin]

No mentions of Sputnik 1?

[@morskojvolk]

Why?

[@scouterstu5856]

Interesting but it does not explain the Coke bottle rolling across the moon. Hard to debunk those who saw the orginal images and the recovered orginal transmission before being edited?

[@oscarin13]

Hard to debunk those who are evidently lying. The transmission was broadcasted in daylight in Australia and the woman claimed that she stayed up late to watch the transmission. There is no evidence there ever was a Coke bottle so her claim is unfalsifiable and doubtful.

[@jshepard152]

0:45 Today there are TEN thousand active satellites in orbit. You can thank Elon Musk for that.

[@walterfletcher]

You should do a video on ELF radio communication. Lowest frequency, lowest bandwidth messages imaginable but it'll hit almost every point in earth, including under water.

[@sirjohnahayfalcon]

What do you mean it will hit every point

[@mickles1975]

*Not to scale LOL

[@ryanhargreaves1502]

You just triggered many moon truthers

[@greensteve9307]

*NOT TO SCALE

[@BoneyMiles]

Perfect way to say to the missus "babe that lunar body is out of this world" I'll go sit in the corner now.

[@TheNikoNik]

"One in Maryland and one in California, and in 1955 they sent the 1st successful transcontinental satellite communication". "Transcontinental". They didn't even go beyond the US country, let alone North America, yet is somehow transcontinental? In any case, as this proved successful, although inconvienent, does the government have them as back up in case satellites stop being reliable, like if they were to fall or shut down?

[@on1yadam]

They dont use the moon any more....or do they? Da da da dummmm

[@sourcedrop7624]

I dont like how this channel always says "we" did this "we" did that. No, "we" didn't do anything. A few or one person did something and then "we" come in and take credit for their work. Not cool.

[@Shrixy]

How can radio waves bounce off cheese? *cringe

[@ΑΡΗΣΚΟΡΝΑΡΑΚΗΣ]

Shrix GD because the moon isn't made from cheese?

[@Shrixy]

ΑΡΗΣ ΚΟΡΝΑΡΑΚΗΣ Do you think I'm stupid? IK 😞

[@zes3813]

no such thing as creativx or not, think any nmw and any s ok

[@AragonDx]

Third

[@peelingonions]

If you’re still the type of person who comments what number comment yours is, you really shouldn’t be on a science channel.

[@jeffhenderson6416]

Welcome back astronaut life station designs give call signal now Jeff re con working areas build and report I heard skill ignored every bodies entry's saved

[@jeffhenderson6416]

Verbatim expiate potential results

[@jeffhenderson6416]

Valid substance in a man of this character yea sides $?@10987654321

[@culwin]

The Moon is flat. #TeachTheControversy

[@MrFullfatt]

Fifth

[@kindlin]

Really bro, 5th? Are you proud of this?

[@Glockenspheal]

that would be cool, if the moon wasn't an hologram and the earth wasn't flat :^)

[@jaredbecker4085]

poor scientists who spent years of their lives developing that technology, to have it quickly squandered by satellites .

[@DreamsOfLegend]

All the Flat Earthers will dislike this video because it's more science that proves they're BATSHIT crazy

[@DreamsOfLegend]

Robert P it's true that most Flat Earthers are blind and won't even realize this video is more hard science truth that goes against their "conspiracy"

[@jamesdolan16]

First

[@peelingonions]

If you’re still the type of person who comments first on videos, you really shouldn’t be on a science channel.

[@gibbyace5077]

**NOT TO SCALE*