How would Bernard Jackman change the Irish rugby market model?

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Күн бұрын

Bernard Jackman outlines the changes he would like to see made to the Irish rugby market model.
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Пікірлер: 43

@Camcolito 2 ай бұрын

Bernard is such a thoughtful analyst and pundit, league of his own in Irish punditry imo.

@DavidDoyle-B2BSell Ай бұрын

100% agree, he's knowledge of sport performance outside of rugby he brings to the table; always courteous and polite. Nice fella to boot, on the night of his farewell dinner he was walking to the match, he didn't know me but joined my young son and I as we walked to the match. A gentleman to his finger tips.

@Camcolito Ай бұрын

@@DavidDoyle-B2BSell Good experience!

@markcasey5465 21 күн бұрын

Excellent analysis Bernard Jackman. Irish rugby in 20 years will benefit from a bottom-up rethink of how to use our burgeoning talent, only when the national agenda prevails. Anything less results in sub-optimal player development, retention and ultimately sub-optimal national successes. We haven't had this rugby talent problem before, because we didn't have the developmental systems that have now yielded such amazing talent (in Leinster) - so effectively we have nailed step 1, we have created amazing talent in Ireland. Step 2 is to optimize talent, allocate the talent across the provinces in a thoughtful and strategic way with the national agenda as the guiding light and create 4 super-provinces over time. It's no hardship for the youngsters, Ireland is a small country, it's hardly emigrating ; ) Step 3 is to optimize infrastructure. We need 3 Aviva-like stadia (North, West and South) and this is not as big a job as some might think, either standalone rugby stadia or in a JV with the GAA. Your players and fans need to aspire to play at these stadia, international teams must play there too, rugby becomes truly national and commercially more successful, as the pie has just gotten bigger. New Zealand have tests against the B&I lions at some stadia with ± 30,000 so why can't we do the same? If you want to build the game-of-tomorrow in Ireland, regrettably you can't start to plan by looking at where we are today - that can never be your departure point. If you do this, all that will happen is incremental (sub-optimal) change . A redrawn vision and aspiration for the game we love needs to be created and then courageous steps need to be taken....after that it's world cup trophy time ; )

@johnnolan6462 2 ай бұрын

Bernard is bang on imo, dont force lads to move but allow provinces to try and tempt players before they enter an academy or before a full pro contract has been offered, dont forget it also works the other way and Leinster could poach lads from elsewhere too. Mindset shift more than anything and should lead to more talented playing pool for Ire.

@Camcolito 2 ай бұрын

Absolutely. Something workable needs to be implemented asap and damn the moaning. I'm from Leinster and it's not our fault that we have a great pool of talent but the lopsidedness of Irish provincial rugby is going to hurt Ireland.

@MrOliverwoods 2 ай бұрын

In the US players pay to play in academies. Quite a bit. Which is why certain sports are class divided. In AAU basketball 13/14 age teams are usually run by a coach that makes a living off fees.

@patfarrell3999 Ай бұрын

Is an u18 draft program from the schools and clubs a possibility?

@DM-rp9ik 2 ай бұрын

All well and good but. I'd say fringe Leinster players look at JC, who was the poster boy for this type of move. An up and coming Ireland International bags of talent ect. Moves to Munster, who had, like Berard, said a shortage at 10. 4 years on he's a 3rd choice he's crocked and lost to International rugby. Again, his idea isn't a bad one, but it works on some untrue assumptions 1 all environments are equal and players will develop equally well in any of them. 2 Provincial biased won't exist. Look how quickly Munster chucked out JC when one of their own was up to the task or it was a 50/50. Commercially Munster are going to back the Munster player if there's little or nothing between them.

@lamelamelame3 2 ай бұрын

with the knowledge that "JC" was broken by Joe Schmidt. Joe knew he was injured and took him to the RWC 2019 and played him anyway. Which caused a number of related injuries and surgeries and JC falling down the depth chart at Munster. -- and then offered a lifeline to Bordeaux in a 3 year contract (at probably three times his Munster salary) This caused the rise of both Ben Healy (who left to play for Scotland because Farrell was never going to pick him given he wasn't a D4 player) and Crowley -- who is the out & out starting 10 for Ireland (almost by fluke post-JS) for at least the next couple of years before "SP" gets his shite together to offer an actual challenge to the shirt (because he definitely didn't do it last weekend.)

@MorrisdeSaucer 2 ай бұрын

JC was and is injury prone , he was constantly injured man and is so in Bordeaux now too, some players just don't make it..there was a time where Munster players went to Leinster, but that's ok , the other way is a scandal, grow up. Sean Cronin for example

@MorrisdeSaucer 2 ай бұрын

Munster need a great hooker bring him here, good for Munster great for Ireland. Leinster are top loaded so there good players can't get game time . Waste of talent. Look at NZ they keep moving the players around, thus they have a high performance environment for tye players . Ireland's provinces should be all in the European cup, why just one province, those days are gone , if you want to win a WC make all provinces strong.

@DM-rp9ik 2 ай бұрын

@MorrisdeSaucer He wasn't notorious for being injured at Leinster. I'm not saying moving is a bad idea in some cases, I just don't buy it as simple as Jackman makes it out to be. JC is a prime example. I don't think you could find a player in a better time or place, then JC to move to Munster on paper, but it was a disaster, and they turfed him out quickly enough as well

@DM-rp9ik 2 ай бұрын

@MorrisdeSaucer There's nothing to say if he moves he will be 3rd choice and half the player he promised to be in a few years. Remember how much sense the JC move made in 2018 its never this simple.

@danielokeeffe6358 2 ай бұрын

Has Bernard heard of Name and Image Likeness? Because college sport in the US is no longer amateur (it never was really). The 18 year olds are still going to college and its going to cost a lot of money to overcome the additional expenses due to moving out of home to do so.

@dublin7 2 ай бұрын

I understand what Bernard is saying but it is a very simplistic view point. Leinster don't have a divine right to the players but they have never claimed to? You grow up in Leinster, you support Leinster, you grow up wanting to play for Leinster. Due to proximity, Leinster coaches helping out the schools system in Leinster makes sense. If the other provinces are that concerned, why don't they send down coaches to work with the schools in Leinster, if they are that concerned why don't they offer opportunities for their academy players to work alongside the youngsters. He is talking about players as if they are fully fledged professionals. Not kids. Players going from the likes of St. Mary's, Terenure or Blackrock, at 17 or 18 years of age are plucked from their families, friends and everything they have known and are expected to move to Limerick, or Galway or Belfast. Players who are from the region usually want to stay in the region because it is what they know, what they feel comfortable with and who they have grown up supporting. Yes there are exceptions but it isn't for the IRFU, Schools or provinces to dictate a young players future. Let them make their own choices. The only way you can probably make it fair is if when offering young schools players academy deals, you can pay more money to them to come to a different province. Other than that, you can't force a young player to move to a different part of the country just to make it fair for Ulster, Munster and Connacht. Another option could be, for example Leinster have a glut of academy Hookers on their book but are low on Tight head props, where as Munster have a glut of Tight heads and are very deficient at Hooker. A swap of players should be agreed upon so one team doesn't feel like they are being extracted from all the time. Obviously none of this happens without the consent of the players making the move but it solves a problem for the provinces.

@Camcolito 2 ай бұрын

He never said a thing about dictating anything, that's the whole point, so you obviously don't understand what he's saying in fact.

@durthacht 2 ай бұрын

Can you please turn off your notifications when recording this podcast. It's distracting when comments are interrupted by loud bleeping sounds.

@richard-king- 2 ай бұрын

I’m not sure what the point is here? He seems to be saying that we need a system where all 4 provinces can try and lure a prospect to their academy, but then also says there’s nothing stopping at Munster from offering an academy contract to a Leinster schools player. Is it that the provinces aren’t looking outside their borders? Or is it very difficult to reliably spot talent at 18 unless the player is a Sam Prendergast type of talent (who would then most likely know that he can pass out anyone ahead of him at Leinster if he works for it)? The IRFU will never allow any of its branches to enter bidding wars with each other - it’s the same pot of money, why allow it to be used less efficiently. And if you make players move, you open the door to 18 year olds from Belfast with no desire to move to Limerick taking a contract on Paris, London or elsewhere and being lost to the IRFU. Build academies a player would want to be a part of and successful teams for them to win things south and they will be more open up move.

@murrad23 2 ай бұрын

I get what Bernard is saying here, and there's some merit in it. There's also an important point about the identity and affinity of players within the province for the province i.e. Leinster players want to play for Leinster. Would this proposal devalue that in some way?

@Camcolito 2 ай бұрын

Not really because they have the choice to stay and fight for a Leinster place if they want. All he's saying is that other provinces can make offers that give the players something to think about.

@robertmorgan000 2 ай бұрын

I think Birch's ideas are great. He is thinking for the good of irish rugby. IRFU are you listening?

@seangriffin8659 2 ай бұрын

could be easier to just have a second Leinster side ? might even attract back some of those who have headed to other provinces or abroad (ex. Ross Molony, Jack Dunne, etc.)

@richard-king- 2 ай бұрын

Yeah. One of the issues highlighted in the past is a lack of playing opportunity. A better option here is to split Dublin off from Leinster and have a 5th. Obviously not something that can be done with the click of the fingers, but long term is probably a requirement.

@seangriffin8659 2 ай бұрын

here's my thought experiment - which assumes that no former leinster could be recruited back from other provinces or abroad. tighthead and lock are a bit light. TEAM 1: 1-Porter, 2-Kelleher, 3-Slimani, 4-J. McCarthy, 5-Ryan, 6-Deegan, 7-Van Der Flier, 8-Conan, 9-McGrath, 10-R. Byrne, 11-Lowe, 12-Barrett, 13-Ringrose, 14-Russell, 15-J. Osborne 16-Barron, 17-Milne, 18-Clarkson, 19-Mangan, 20-Soroka, 21-Foley, 22-H. Byrne, 23-T. O’Brien TEAM 2: 1-Healy, 2-Sheehan, 3-Furlong, 4-Snyman, 5-Baird, 6-Connors, 7-Penny, 8-Doris, 9-Gibson-Park, 10-S. Prendergast, 11-J. O’Brien, 12-Frawley, 13-Henshaw, 14-Larmour, 15-Keenan 16- G. McCarthy, 17-Boyle, 18-McGuire, 19-Deeny, 20-Culhane, 21-Gunne, 22-Tector, 23-Turner Now let me go find something useful to do with my life...

@patrickcoote8441 2 ай бұрын

Leinster will lose some players but others who would have been lost to top level altogether will be kept and given opportunities.Ireland rugby and the quality of club sides would be enhanced. It’s a population and the schools competition that produces the conveyer belt of talent.

@rahimoneill7294 Ай бұрын

Instead of 9/10 central contracts at leinster, why not limit central contracts to something like 4/province. Leinster would spend a bit more to keep players but the other provinces would have more financial relief and could invest more in their own academies etc. Seems like a fairer way to redistribute leinsters wealth.

@insmallportions 2 ай бұрын

Jackman is making it sound easy to figure out which players are great at 17 or 18, it is not. Physical and rugby development is huge part of it. Would any of the other provinces taken a punt on Jonathan Sexton at 18? He was 23 before he forced his way into the Leinster team.

@IainCahoon 2 ай бұрын

Success. In order to tempt the best talent, the 3 other provinces need to offer a chance of success greater than or equal to that at Leinster. None of the 3 can atm. Chicken, egg...

@daithipol 2 ай бұрын

It was easier to watch C Prendergast/Timoney/Izzy/Loughton or even Beirne play with other provences than Carbery because he made his bones here

@Camcolito 2 ай бұрын

He made his bones while I was still going out with cheerleaders! We don't buy him out, he buys us out!

@fergalbannon4614 2 ай бұрын

To be able to do this correctly, the IRFU would have to take over recruitment for all 4 academies. Then if you wanna play pro, you go where you're told.

@KewKew-do3kq 2 ай бұрын

Murray crying 😂 but henshaw was offered a central contract to go to Leinster? How can the Irfu be able to stop irish players outside of Ireland playing but can not move workers to another base in Ireland? Every company can move workers especially if it's a only 2 year contracts. Stop acting like you can't move players it's embarrassing