We pulled SIDEWAYS on glue in bolts - you won’t believe what happens

We expected bolts to twist in the glue, break the bond and fail much lower than normal if we pulled sideways. Well…….. Just watch.
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[@HowNOT2]

Check out our new store! hownot2.store/

[@justinzaff]

CAN YOU please. MYTH BUST test ropes that have been washed with different cleaning products ? Ive never heard about hard science proving that rope can be weakened but everyone says it. Thank you keep up the awesome work .

[@piciu256]

Really interested in that too

[@EvanTheHamburgler]

"Safe enough" "real-world enough" Thats really all we can ever ask for!

[@cooperspace90]

This time you put the resulst particularly well into perspective with your previous busts. I liked that a lot

[@blurpderp5826]

Hi, have you guys done a softest catch belay competition? I think that would be great to watch. How low can you go with those KN? Maybe use screamers, improvised and real product, or different belay techniques like a lowering catch.

[@baselinewingsuit]

This is amazing community service you do. Thank you!!

[@will2918]

If you replace any old bolts/hangers/chains etc. it would be interesting to see how they compare to today's standards, and if old rusty hardware is as sketchy as it can look.

[@johnliungman1333]

”Science is weird”. ”Real-world enough”. This channel is a gold-mine! 😁🙏

[@drew5334]

Really cool to see this stuff. Seems like most of the time, it's just reinforcing how ridiculously strong the bolts are. I'm definitely more worried about my rope running over a sharp edge during a fall

[@tomsmith3045]

This was awesome. And those last 3 bolts are an example of how welds in SS are supposed to work. They are just as strong as the base metal. Welds in stainless aren't like knots in rope.

[@hereseangoes]

This is really cool. I just found the channel like a week ago and have watched a ton of videos. I climb and slackline with aspirations to one day highline and rope jump. And now I really want a space net in the giant tree in my backyard. I also worked with heavy machinery for a long time so I'm familiar with shackles and anchors and hardware galore. Its very rare to see things break when they were installed properly. Its cool to see how strong everything actually is. Love it.

[@foihdzas]

Ryan, Could you possibly pull on a Fixe bolt up to 6kn (or so) until it cracks the glue, then release tension and see what it does in the hole by manually moving it around. Also, as I'm sure everyone is aware, cyclic loading of glue ins, in an unfavourable direction is probably not super good for the glue. But the results definitely surprised me. Cheers.

[@Jookyforever]

I am also interested in what a tension straight pull out test would show after a glue bond break has occurred.

[@topherbuckley]

Same interest here!

[@dragan3290]

I want see the highrise construction eye bolts made from 316 stainless steel and from memory I think : 12 mm thick.

[@markpell8979]

This test was fun and very reassuring. After putting up bolted climbs and anchor stations for a long time and using glue-in eye bolts more and more often as the years go by, I'm now at the point where I think that the second bolt at a station is A) just for that 0.003% statistical advantage against total anchor failure and B) to show lost people or noobs where the belay is.

[@markedwards2083]

Brilliant as always, thanks so much for your work putting these videos together.

[@buckmanriver]

I sent $5 your way to help fund the $1k dino. Thanks for publishing such great content!

[@HowNOT2]

Thanks! Donations keep me burning cash on more stoked projects! Slacksnap is getting a remodel :)

[@danebroe6067]

I think there could be a bigger problem if you load the same bolt in two orientations for different lines. The steel probably wouldn’t like back and fourth twisting.

[@HowNOT2]

I'm wondering if i can do that. I only have one hydraulic pump but maybe i can use pulleys for the other direction!

[@CraigParkinson28]

yep, it should have a similar effect of tri-loading a carabiner. The bolt could possibly experience more load than is actually being put on it.

[@jakeduggan2394]

I like when there is a little overlay video with the reading on the dyno at the same time as the break test

[@piman3072]

I'd be more worried about the cyclic loading of twisting/ untwisting the bolts, rigging two different angles of line over the course of a year, that seems like it could cause premature failure. It'd also be interesting to see a more real world example of say 5-10 degrees off axis, with a notch, and how much force it takes to start twisting then. I'd certainly hope no one actually rigs 90 deg off axis on that style of bolt. In the realm of "a lot more data needed," setting up a bolt, and twisting it back and forth 5-10 degrees for tens/hundreds of cycles, then pulling it to failure would be interesting. No idea how much a setup that could do that test unattended would cost, maybe a beefy electric linear actuator.

[@HowNOT2]

It would just take the hydraulics I have now and a much better pump attached to some serious computer/software haha. Cycles could have an affect on it but the one real world place (Taft point) that this is installed like this, the 200m line gets rigged once or less than once a year and 3 bolts sharing the load so no bolt sees more than 3kn should be super good enough. I do plan on doing more twist tests. We have done some already with other bolts.

[@Jookyforever]

The 4,000psi concrete you get in bags from Lowe's and Home Depot, or even the standard 2,500psi you get for concrete sidewalks and slabs on grade, should be a good potentially lower-bound, analog for most rocks. I would be interested in how different sand stones do.

[@danielsmith1956]

Hey, great video as always. I'm a mechanical engineer and climber (high lining is still a bit scary for me). Anyway, I'd be interested for future break tests if the focus wasn't exclusively on MBS. When bolts are rated, there are usually two numbers which are important for the engineer. One is the MBS whi h is forged into the side of the bolt. But there is another number called the proof load. The proof load of a bolt is the maximum force it can take before it plastically deforms. To get this accurately requires a stress-strain or force-displacement graph, but you could probably get a rough number just by using your eyes to see when it visibly starts to deform. It seems like most of these bolts started to plastically deform at very low forces. And if I walked up to a cliff and saw a deformed bolt I probably wouldn't clip it (even if I knew it would hold 50kN before it completely snapped).

[@elmeradams8781]

Why would it matter for people using it? (I'm not trying to be mean. I'm wanting to learn how to safely climb and engineer things) .

[@wilfordpetersen5002]

I love your videos. I would be interested in that too. If you side lode a bolt and bend it, then if it is side loaded the opposite way it would definitely weaken the bolt. Then what would it brake at.

[@AaronAlso]

I think this goes to show that modern adhesives, installed properly, are stronger then the materials they are bonding together.

[@mrhaneyii]

I think you should put a sharpie line down the shank of the bolt so you can see how much the shank is twisting on the side load tests. It would be interesting to see where/how much/how far down the bolt it twists. (As long as the glue doesn’t take the sharpie line off, maybe a scratch line instead)

[@berryreading4809]

I wonder if the epoxy brand makes a difference on sideways pulls? Also I'd love to see a do not attempt test using just loctite 3x or 8x polyurethane construction adhesive instead of epoxy

[@HowNOT2]

we should repeat tests with a less quality glue like Ac100. We could do general construction glue but I don't want to show it unless it fails miserably! haha

[@evanmallette]

i was saying a while ago testing epoxy or urethane glues from hardware stores (commonly used for rebar or liquid anchors)

[@elmeradams8781]

I have a bunch of hilti rebar glue I could send you. It's overage from a job and out of date.

[@berryreading4809]

@@evanmallette rebar/anchoring epoxy would probably be very similar to the regular tests, like the redhead/sitka brand, I'm more curious about non rated 2 part epoxies like JB weld, dev-con, for home use 😄👍

[@esotericgrave3129]

You would just need a higher strength epoxy. When you are pulling 'sideways' on the bolt you are essentially adding a second axis of torque on the bolt. Normally you're just pulling a bolt, you're applying a torque across is short axis, but while sideways you're also 'twisting' it, or applying a torque with its long axis. creates shear stress on the bolt to epoxy bond. Typically materials are weaker to shear stress, and epoxy is probably no exception. So really, you would just need a high strength epoxy, or a 'stickier' epoxy to be able to withstand that shearing force... Or easier yet, you could make a bolt that is flared, rather than just ribbed. Its like trying to spin a straight tube in water, or a propeller. The propeller has a wider surface area resisting a twisting torque. Theoretically would work just as well with epoxy.

[@roshtar2k8]

Since it sounded like the bolt broke free from the glue, I wonder how the bolt would react if you didn't glue it at all. Just to see what's keeping it in the hole in the concrete.

[@HowNOT2]

I am curious if glue is all that important :). I do want to test this. We did wave bolts and #47 sample came out in shear at 27.80kn. You can see that on our chart on slackline.com. I still recommend gluing glue ins though haha

[@bencheevers6693]

That last test was a little comprimised because it wasn't the strength of the bolt or epoxy that failed but the concrete cracked to the edge which let the bolt pull out easier, still a great result

[@ckl8a]

I think many are curious about the strength of your concrete. in order to reach the rated strength, the mix has to be kept wet for 28 days. concrete continues to cure as long as it has moisture in it. if you were concerned it was affecting your results, you can cover the slab with a blanket or sheets, hose them down and cover that with a tarp to trap the moisture in. keep it wetted for about a month and the slab will be significantly stronger.

[@richardradzinsky2755]

he should be using 1:1:2 or 1:2:2 (whatever tests better)Portland cement, masonry sand, 3/4 screened limestone. then do a full 30 day saturated wet cure and after a few dry days using a lithium silicate on top for a couple coats That would allow evaluating anchors without the premature concrete failures. Looks like he is getting compressive failure starting at about 2000psi. That is really a bit too low.

[@apiletal]

I’m from Madrid, Spain. FIXE, is a beast. I love PLX.

[@viktorvikander4371]

You're doing a great job!!! Keep it up guys!!!

[@pyalot]

You might want to compare glued in-bolts in different glues and before/after they've gone trough 1000 day/night/rain cycles.

[@climberdad]

Great video. Have you done a test pulling bolts strait out?

[@christopherbarron8730]

You should try to crack the glue first, then try to pull the bolts straight out. This simulates 2 separate events and how they affect each-other.

[@Toahmisae]

The extra twisting and bending is probably work hardening the steel, which might be why it breaks at higher forces.

[@jameswaite1146]

anywhere to buy those Tshirts. awsome testing as usual

[@gregcronin92]

slacklife.threadless.com/

[@HowNOT2]

Greg posted link. Limited on shirts and print to order shirts, at least during covid, were super duper slow. I wish I could make better shirts and more accessible but I'm pretty busy so I just focus on content instead of getting too distracted.

[@huckleberry626]

Hey, maybe you heard about the accident because of the failure of an anchor glue-in while toproping in frankenjura? This would be interesting, when the loop of the glue-in has about 1cm to the rock...

[@theSquashSH]

What happens if you use crappy/non-rock-specific epoxy like standard JB-weld?

[@HowNOT2]

maybe we will try this but I don't think it is a good idea

[@GregHartSk8er]

The problem with sideways twist is that you crack the bolt/glue bond. This was happening in your test at 6Kn. Can you get some Raumer bolts and test those similarly? The Raumer has only knurling as a key for the glue and not notches. I am almost sure the Raumer will slide out of the hole in a twist test. Would be interesting as we use these for our climbing bolting.

[@GregHartSk8er]

raumerclimbing.com/eng/prodotti_clista.asp?cat=stainless_steel_resin_anchors&qi=0-7-0

[@patob3363]

Isn't it a bit concerning or at least off putting that their bending like crazy at 4kn? I know you would have at least 3 bolts but that's a fair bit less then I'd expect for the bolt to warp.

[@HowNOT2]

The skinner bolts do that. A highliner recently bent a wave bolts because it deforms so low. The thicker the bolt the better if serious force is going to be put on them.

[@mountainmandoug]

Honestly, I find it perhaps useful from a climbing perspective, if I think a bolt has been fallen on a lot, but it's not bent, that is now useful data. Likewise, a bent bolt is useful data.

[@AZDesertExplorer]

Hell yeah! Use JB Weld & E6000

[@samheasmanwhite]

Why are all these bolts smooth rather than sandblasted or something? I feel like this would be a simple and cheap improvement of their adhesion.

[@apiletal]

I think this idea... Would it be possible for you to do tests with jerks at normal speed?

[@homefront3162]

Bolt busters are preferred to nut busters. lol

[@theslacksmith]

thumbs up for the catio

[@jeffreywittenbrink]

I really enjoy these damn. Tell grant Mercer baton rouge says hi

[@dragan3290]

When you said highest strength concrete? Now I'm curious as to what rating in MPA?

[@als484]

on that twisted one try soft shackles

[@svendiehr6716]

Can you pull-test a figure 8 with a Yosemite finish? Or has this been done already?

[@scottd7234]

Could you guys cyclic load bolts sideways to highline specs over time so that your bolts are fatigued as if people were highlining on them and then test breaking strength?

[@jrgensneisen6021]

Is there a video where you pull hangers this "wrong" way?

[@onsight2822]

It would be good to see a expansion bolts test comparing say 60mm , 90mm and 120mm lengths/ does the length of the bolt make much difference also 10mm vrs 12mm expansion bolts?? Great videos guys keep up the excellent work 😎

[@HowNOT2]

we did different lengths over the last 300 break tests but specifically in sandstone. slackline.com you can see bolt buster chart and see all the mechanical bolts we tested in it. Shorties came out, long ones broke at the top.

[@onsight2822]

@@HowNOT2 oh great thanks for that , I was going to ask you , , , , I have a massive hilti bolt! Anyway I can send you a photo of it ? Maybe you guys could test it ?? 😎

[@armedbear529]

Your cats should really be wearing eye protection.

[@HowNOT2]

They should but I would need eye protection trying to enforce that with them!

[@m4573r_]

What's that name on the certificate?? :D

[@jons6125]

Have you tested “straight pull” (inline with the hole in the rock)

[@SlowTVLofi]

Do a cross loading carabineer video

[@winchesterdown]

For the longevity of the bolt or anchor setup, it is best not to side load the ring. As you demonstrated, yes, the ultimate capacity of the bolt in one side load event is still good. The low loads (4-6kN) that bend the bolt ring will degrade the bolt capacity for future use especially if the bolt is loaded in another direction yet again (i.e. a highline in a different direction etc) The bolts definitely seem to be holding even once you pulled them from their initial placement in the glue i.e. they rotate a degree. However, even if the ultimate load was very adequate, you don't really want people using bolts when they have rotated or can rotate. I think this would lead to poor decisions on bolt efficacy being made. Best to load in the correct direction and not trust anything that rotates, has been rotated, or bent out of shape.

[@vieuxacadian9455]

I must ask , what grade of concrete are You using and how much time has it had to age/cure ?

[@francolua]

Great work guys, should show the process of putting in the bolts! I bet would have a lot less criticism. Show them the work. And please protect your self in the tests.

[@HowNOT2]

We do have videos that cover that. I try to keep these from being too long. If I show the process, I feel it is important to explain all the steps and not let anyone think they were properly shown and just cover a few things.

[@bender7167]

Your partially losing out as the bolts pulled out before are cracking your concrete leaving future bolts in preweakened material.

[@elmeradams8781]

The concrete isn't the weak point in most of the breaks. But good observation.

[@bender7167]

@@elmeradams8781 Not most but it was on at least one although you still got good results. I just think they could have been a lot better off the concrete hadn't cracked when the previous test was ran.

[@Astilath]

Like and subscribe for making me feel even safer falling onto these 🤣

[@TheMetalButcher]

Super good enough? Haha.

[@michaelsays7131]

Hey @hownottohighline is it ever okay to use soft shackles to make quickdraws? If i soft shackle my nut or cam to a biner and then use climbing tape to keep the soft shackle taught so the loop doesnt come off the head accidently?? And if you arent sure, id be willing to send you some new biners and nuts to stress test it with if you can supply the soft shackles..please DM if youre interested..

[@HowNOT2]

Soft shackles are 4 strands plus a button knot to get the length you want. Sewn dyneema slings are awesome for climbing and are two strands (in a loop) so they will always be lighter. If you dropped all your quick draws, extenders or some other miracle, then for sure! You could totally soft shackle trad gear! :)

[@michaelsays7131]

HowNOTtoHIGHLINE geez ryan i just wanna see you break shit in the name of science

[@mainemade300]

1 kn= 225 lb

[@Lagrangianification]

I don't know if I trust the guy with the coke nail to give us accurate pull test results

[@CJski]

How else can you convince yourself that highlining is a good idea?

[@HowNOT2]

I paint houses for a living. I pick my nose. My pinky is the only finger that fits in my nose. I'm not saying I don't do drugs, I'm just saying I don't do coke :)