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@watermelonman122 Жыл бұрын
3:59 , word to the wise for anyone that plans on bringing dyneema pullcord, if at all possible never ever ever throw a bundle of dyneema pullcord down the rappel. That stuff is infamous for turning into the worst knotted, tangled, gordian knot you've ever seen. On our first outing when it was still a fairly new concept, I tossed it down and it did just that. I spent 30min on rappel trying to untangle it to no avail. Keep it with you, or what us canyoneers have found works best, get a small pullcord bag to keep it in. A small chalk bucket, or anything with an opening that can be cinched shut, works very well.
@spiercevaughn Жыл бұрын
I use it on a very regular basis for throwline for treework and understand what you mean. It takes intuition, patience and finesse. Just hope it wasn’t pulled tight while in a big mess of a knot lol. I keep mine stored in a pop up throw cube and it stores well like that and rarely tangles
@TehBloodyWanka8 ай бұрын
figure 8 the dyneema (similar to how you would store 550). Makes tossing it down clean and tangle free.
@woodyw94704 ай бұрын
@@TehBloodyWanka Daisychain
@paulm3969 Жыл бұрын
This video makes me realize how good life is. What a great feeling it is to be up in the mountains.
@floriansilbernagl5761 Жыл бұрын
I come from professional canyoning so we use this all the time. When combining two different ropes, we normaly use a simple flat overhand and then a second flat overhand right behind to stop the knot from moving. Works perfekt.
@dustinclelen Жыл бұрын
My understanding is that this is how petzl recommends connecting their 6mm purline to normal climbing ropes
@davidsnaz Жыл бұрын
I've used this method multiple times and even with a couple of particularly sticky rope pulls 2 while running canyons.
@robertito_dobbs Жыл бұрын
Not a pro, but my canyoneering experience and research backs the flat overhand... Generally a pull cord is thicker than the shoe lace used in this video🤣 6mm still much lighter than a second climbing rope and not awful to pull. carabiner block we use is clove on a locker.
@floriansilbernagl5761 Жыл бұрын
@@robertito_dobbs Yeah the 6mm works perfekt. Very light (50m are aprox. 1kg), but in an emergence, say you loose your main rope, you can still use it for abseiling to the next emergency exit.
@noahg-1232 ай бұрын
Would double flat overhand work with like 3mm or 4mm cord? It’s slipping with the dyneema here but I want the best of both worlds…
@ipodviewer6 ай бұрын
Arborist trick coming in: Two different size ropes tied together, use your smaller rope( blue in video) to tie a clove hitch at least 8 in up your bigger rope (Black in video). With the remaining 8in of black tie half hitches with blue rope along every 2 in till you run off the tail. This keeps the rope in line with out bends and moves in the direction of the pull. It greatly lowers your chance of getting caught as its widest point is only slight thicker then the diameter of the black rope. I doesnt get caught in trees and is we have really reefed on it with any issues. I would love to know if there is slippage and if the cord is weaker then the knot. (testing opportunity wink wink) Also thanks for making great content as always and showing faults when they happen its makes the rest of us average humans feel like we still have an idea what we are doing even when we make mistakes.
@ferbusch Жыл бұрын
As a professional tree climber/arborist I constantly connect thin throwline to my climbing rope to pull the rope through the tree. The throw line is not made from dyneema but still pretty slippery because its waxed. We use a clove hitch and 2-4 half hitches to connect the throwline to the rope
@daniellee1402 Жыл бұрын
Most throwline like dynaglide, zing it etc. is dyneema/HMWPE though. Same deal though, just a bunch of half hitches and it'll hold.
@francois-xavierdessureault8039 Жыл бұрын
I second that! apparently it is somewhat common to pile hitch the throw line to the rope (+a bunch of half hitches) among those climbers who keep a loop of some kind in the end of their throwline to girth hitch the throwball on... at that point it seems that anything will work with a bunch of half hitches, the choice boils down to what you can tie/untie easily in line of such tiny diameter
@Varilpsa Жыл бұрын
same here, i use three clove hitches though
@blackbobby1508 Жыл бұрын
Thats what we call reepschnur
@needleofjustice10 ай бұрын
Yup. Kind of hilarious to see you reinvent what us tree people do a bunch of times every day. And the big reason is that literally anything else snags and tangles.
@steelonius Жыл бұрын
For the middle of ropes you can thread a piece of heavy duty sewing machine thread. I just went over and under a few strands in the sheath in a spiral pattern with a normal sewing needle. Pick any color you like! It takes a little time to install but it lasted me a full season of climbing and then some. Also if you're paying attention you'll feel it too, which can be nice in low light settings.
@mangiariАй бұрын
Yes same here. Used to even do it all 10m. Not only the middle, using different coding. I did not use thread, but just some stuff pulled from other old climbing materials sheath, so it has the same diameter and look..
@nilsschenkel7149 Жыл бұрын
For some work I did I needed to mark soft material in all kinds of colors; The go-to pen for that was silver. Didn´t come across a color that wouldn´t show up on. So maybe you can mark the middle of your rope with some silver Sharpie,too. Regarding the knot, I´d expect an Albright knot or a Nail knot to hold well; They work for fishing, so I wouldn´t see why they shouldn´t work for climbing. Edit: A Marlspike hitch in with the spine of a carabiner as handle would give you a good grip on the pull cord. I guess you could also clip a sling to the carabiner and loop it around your chest/ over your foot if for some reason you really wanted to get some weight on it.
@ericastier1646 Жыл бұрын
sharpie uses toxic solvents and is highly hazardous to the environment. That's the price you pay for ink that sticks on anything. Better you don't use it and find a better solution.
@kylen4900 Жыл бұрын
Uncoiling the amsteel on rappel is always the crux. I find using a light plastic "line winder" used for spooling kiteboarding lines works perfectly. I also put a fixed eye in the end of my amsteel that I can just run the climbing rope through for a quick bowline.
@harlanstockman5703 Жыл бұрын
I always have a spliced eyelet in one end of the dyneema, and use a 3/16 (0.7 oz) quicklink only if needed. I have also just included the dyneema all the way in a bfk. My pull tests occasionally had the dyneema break at 1100 lbs, if it crosses itself. Amsteel can get stuck in small cracks, so i spool the amsteel out of a small bag attached to my chest. Best oprion is to put the spliced eyelet over the rope in the middle of th bfk, where the bfk gets its bulk from the main rope (say two triple overhands).
@For--nop Жыл бұрын
Im curious what kind of strenght you lose when splicing an eyelet into amsteel
@harlanstockman5703 Жыл бұрын
@@For--nop none, if done correctly. The quoted strength of amsteel is for breaking between two class 2 bury eye splices.
@harlanstockman5703 Жыл бұрын
Knot blocks are tricky if you are using an established quicklink-- sometimes people leave huge links. I always have an extra 3/16" link to put on the webbing if the existing link is huge -- pass the rope through both links. Also try ways to use a biner block even with a tag line.
@Hypknos Жыл бұрын
We use this same concept in arborist settings for retrievable canopy anchors. In some cases using throwline (very thin dynema) or another climbing line for retrieval
@johns310610 ай бұрын
Am I missing something here?….since the small cord is non-weight bearing, is there any reason to NOT use something cheap and readily available (I.e. para cord) rather than expensive, slippery dyneema?!
@awpenheimer1396Ай бұрын
Idk I just sat down
@geometerfpv280413 күн бұрын
Dyneema is not expensive in these diameters, it's very light, and 3 kN is already much more than even legit Paracord can take.
@johns310613 күн бұрын
@ Not expensive? A quick search shows 200’ of 2.5 or 3mm dyneema at approximately $120-$150….200’ of para cord is $16. While I’m in no way a fan of compromising safety in favor of saving a buck, using a cord as purely a retrieval line (it will NEVER be responsible for keeping a climber safe) seems like a great place to avoid overkill and have some funds left over for safety gear that really matters. You wouldn’t or couldn’t rap on thin little dyneema in a pinch, nor would you want to try descending on para cord, so, to my way of thinking, the extra strength of dyneema is wasted. Convince me otherwise! I’m open to additional thoughts!
@gilliesuarezКүн бұрын
I have no idea. I'd probably use Paracord, but slippery dynema would be less likely to get snagged and desheathed or abraded away on a rough pitch if you do this a lot
@Serdradaar Жыл бұрын
Why not splice an eye in the dyneema big enough to fit your coil (or the bag where the dyneema is stuffed in) through, and then simply girth hitch it through the eye of the figure eight in the rappel rope? Should prevent the dyneema from slipping.
@barongerhardt Жыл бұрын
Eye splice on the dyneema was also my first thought. I don't think the girth hitch is needed. Just put it through the loop of your favorite bight.
@MitchellKuiper Жыл бұрын
Or just clip the eye into the carabiner used as the blocker.
@Serdradaar Жыл бұрын
@@barongerhardtoh of course! Kind of stupid not to just think of that, now it seems so obvious 😅
@IdRatherBeHiking Жыл бұрын
You had me at GIRTH
@JasperJanssen Жыл бұрын
Eye splice on the dyneema, figure eight on the rope? Doing a figure eight around a piece that is already rigged is, after all, basic toolkit.
@Mark6E Жыл бұрын
Good video. I tie 1.5mm dyneema/nylon cords to big ropes often for tree work (throw balls to set anchors, string to leave out to preserve anchor points). What works for me, is to clove hitch onto the bigger rope, with an overhand stopper on the cord, so that the clove doesn't need any tail. This has the advantage that it will easily go through tight unions in a tree without snagging, or through a pulley, and is very quick to tie and loosen.
@jetseverschuren Жыл бұрын
If you're already planning to do this with dyneema, why not just splice an eye beforehand?
@CheapFlashyLoris Жыл бұрын
Hey, we were the folks who said hi at the lake on our way up to do the other ridge! Sounds like the South Ridge parties had more fun; we ended up bailing halfway through the second pitch. If our cordellete is still up there, you're welcome to keep it 😅
@TheScottaboy Жыл бұрын
For my pull line I use a 5mm accessory cord, so it bites a lot more than the Dyneema, but I've had good success with a flat overhand to join the two, then clove hitching the rappel rope onto the spine of a large carabiner. The flat overhand only gets loaded when you're pulling the rope, not when you're rappelling (the load is taken by the clove hitch on the carabiner).
@paulgreenwood652 Жыл бұрын
Two concerns for using this in the mountains. One is that the carabiner in the knot will make it out more likely to get snagged on something (tree root, crack in the rocks or flake sticking out, etc.)pulling it down. The second is that a thin string is much more likely to tangle (and this happens in the video): he mentions flaking it in a bag and I imagine that would help. If you (or anyone) have used this technique regularly, I'd be interested to hear how you avoid these two problems. Thanks!
@BudgetAdventure Жыл бұрын
rope bag for the pull cord solves the 2nd problem. You are correct about the carabiner being a potential snag risk, though. One way to mitigate is to step back from the base of the cliff when pulling so you minimize the carabiner from rubbing against the cliff face. In canyoneering, I never use a knot block, but use a carabiner block secured with a constrictor hitch. Many/most use a clove hitch, but they have been known to slip and the constrictor doesn't. I use a 6mm non-dyneema accessory cord and have never had problems.
@paulgreenwood652 Жыл бұрын
Many thanks. I'll be interested to try the karabiner with a constrictor hitch!
@nelsonleany430726 күн бұрын
I work at a ropes course and we have different features such as a powerpole people get to climb requiring top roping. Instead of leaving our ropes out all the time we use accesory cord and tie a clove hitch about 6 inches up the tail and then tie a series of half hitches down the rope creating a killick hitch. This sucessfully works for swapping the polyester peachord with the 9.5 dynamic rope. I am also an avid canyoneer and have not tried this method for rigging a retrievable rappel but I am pretty confident that it would work using either a knot block or carrabiner block and a killick hitch on the tail of the block strand.
@Des..Perado Жыл бұрын
Use a locking brummel splice in the end of the dyneema, clip it with the biner you have at the quick links. Alternatively, tie your stopper knot and make a tie a prusik with the dyneema eye above the stopper.
@BurchellAtTheWharf Жыл бұрын
1:18 Hey Ryan, wanna mark black rope? Paint on whiteout fer ink pen&paper mistakes I use it on my ropes as a fisherman to mark out five fathom intervals on my ropes, it's water proof, and works atreat
@rudwick2 Жыл бұрын
A friend sewed some dental floss through the middle of a dark rope to mark the middle. Worked pretty well
@nikmeechan4688 Жыл бұрын
You could try a pile hitch back up with two half hitches further towards the end of the rope, check out how arborists send up ropes with throw line
@adamm4619 Жыл бұрын
As been stated. Arborist trick. Clove hitch fallowed by two have hitches a few inches apart. Used all the time with throw ball line.
@WheeliePete5 ай бұрын
In answer to your question at 1:18 I found a solution to the black rope centermark problem without using paint or markers. Wove in a bright embroidery floss to the sheath at the middle mark. It's held up great even after a couple of outdoor seasons. it's not permanently affixed to the sheath either. Here's my video on it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kHjFZY2EjLl-adU
@SquareYourFace Жыл бұрын
I did nearly the same thing, using 2mm paracord to extend a 50m to 60m, enabling 30m, single-strand rappels. In the mountaineering community, people always seem to bring a second rope or a much thicker tagline. I didn't understand why, and half expected to run into some issue, but I didn't. I also ended up connecting them with interlocking figure 8s, which worked fine. It's worth noting that the blocking knot at the anchor can be separated from the knot connecting the two ropes.
@dylanwiltz1184 Жыл бұрын
take a single strand of a bright sheath from an old rope and sew it into your rope at the middle point. a single strand will be enough to stick out visually but will not bind your friction devices. I use this trick while splicing rope to make my markers.
@andreas_swissry Жыл бұрын
I think to remember that I have learned to use the Fisherman-knot whenever joining two ropes of different diameter/material. But I think that was more ment for rappelling on a single and half rope. Maybe connecting a 5 or 6mm prusik sling to a climbing rope. But definitely not something so thin. So it was interesting to have different knots tested! Thanks Ryan and blessings from Iraq
@paulgreenwood652 Жыл бұрын
The Fisherman has a turn of rope going right around the standing part of the rope, so it's very likely to get caught on any edge when being pulled down. A big advantage of an overhead bend or fig-8 bend for joining the two ropes (even when they're the same size) is that one side of the bend is flat and so it can slide over edges without getting caught.
@alan_long Жыл бұрын
Putting in my vote to test the Gibbs Knot. Ive used this to join two ropes of different diameters with pretty good success. Used it on a 9.5 and the Petzl Pur Line. Would LOVE to see this tested!!!
@Jamenfaendah Жыл бұрын
Yes ! Gibbbs and half gibbs
@RippinNCrimpin Жыл бұрын
Learned about Gibbs knot in Andy Kirkpatrick book ‘Down’. I would love to see Gibbs and half Gibbs tested!
@hatchetation Жыл бұрын
Tree climbers pull ropes using even smaller dyneema - eg 1.7mm which doubles as a "throw-line", or pilot line which is initially used to pull the climb line into place. You know who has good knots for small dyneema? People who fish! Favorite knot for tiny dyneema is a (slippery) clinch knot. Super fast and easy - just put an eye onto the rope using an alpine butterfly or whatever, then tie the dyneema on using a clinch knot. Never fails, easy to untie if you leave the tail out and tie the slippery version.
@toreskog Жыл бұрын
Not for cyclical loading but I'm using timberhitch and back it up towards the end with a halfhitch, like you do while pulling a log. I just have the climbing rope as the log and usually a throw line to pull with. This works for cambium savers in trees. If I want to use top rope but don't want to leave a rope outside in the UV between sessions, use some bricklayers twine and just pull that with the climbing rope and then the next time I can use the twine to pull up the climbing rope (obviously only on your own private walls/trees and not somewhere out in nature).
@KarltheKrazyone Жыл бұрын
another good one is a nail knot, were I am it's commonly used with 2.5mm braided "VB" cord (polyester Venetian blind cord), it's got a core so it sits round unlike 2mm accessory cord, and it holds well. It's great if you need to pull through small pullies or shear reduction devices, since you can tie right up to the end. with thicker ropes you can melt a hole through and add a pull loop of thin cord as well. Timber hitch and a row of half hitches works great, but the nail knot doesn't rely on constant tension.
@toreskog Жыл бұрын
Nail knot looks pretty, will try it out@@KarltheKrazyone
@Sicnus Жыл бұрын
Hope you are better Ryan. Gave me a big ass scare with that one video about your health :( Thanks for the post!
@mirandahotspring4019 Жыл бұрын
You can mark the middle of a black rope with some white thread stitched through it. The rigging system you used is a variation of cord technique rigging that has been used in cave exploration since at least the 1980s. It was used to leave a thin cord at each pitch so a single rope could be used to explore the whole cave. The usual way was to sew a cord into one end of the rope (half a metre or so long) to tie the cord to. At the other end a double fisherman's stopper knot was tied and it was usually rigged through a stitch plate at the anchor. That way the rope could be recovered at the bottom of each abseil and a doubled cord left in its place. This allowed the rope to be replaced from the bottom on the way back to exit the cave.
@harlanstockman5703 Жыл бұрын
I have tried that, it worked for years... then one day as my bud was ascending with camp solo2s, an ascender got stuck in the thread, and it took her 5 minutes to free it. Probably a bizarre situation.
@mirandahotspring4019 Жыл бұрын
@@harlanstockman5703 OK, at least one European manufacturer I know of (but can't remember which one) marks their ropes like that, but tying them in a way that the ends of the threads are exposed like about 5 - 6mm so they can be easily seen but there are no loops to catch on anything.
@mirandahotspring4019 Жыл бұрын
@@harlanstockman5703 Just checked, years ago I wrote the vertical rope training manual for IAGA and included some photos of rope markings, some manufacturers, particularly of canyoning ropes, change the colour of the rope at the halfway mark, but Metolius Monster Marker uses bright pink and orange threads woven into the rope to mark the centre. There was bit of discussion about centre markings when there was an accident where someone rigged their rope doubled through the anchor and started abseiling down. Unfortunately there had been some damage to the rope and to fix it someone had seen it was only a few metres from the end so jut cut it off and shortened the rope. You can guess what happened when the person abseiled from the double rope onto the single longer end...
@harlanstockman5703 Жыл бұрын
@@mirandahotspring4019 i just saw a youtube video on the method that just leaves frayed ends exposed. Clever idea, you could even feel them in the dark. Thanks.
@chriselliott6677 Жыл бұрын
A spliced eye would definitely be the cleanest and most secure option. As an arborist, I've used a skinny throwline, girth or clove hitched around the loop from knot-block then backed up with a bowline integrated back into pull strand. A kind of hybrid-knot #cloveline?
@danieleckert3508 Жыл бұрын
To pull a rope with a thin string you could tie multiple clove hitches with the string around the rope - first one maybe 30 cm / 1ft from the end, one at half that, and one close to the end of the rope. That way you can pull the rope without having to tie a knot in it, so it's less likely to get stuck. Multiple knots to avoid slipping I use this technique when climbing trees - you throw a weight attached to a string over a branch, then pull your rope over the branch using the string, and then use the rope to ascend that tree.
@alexstarr1589 Жыл бұрын
I was thinking of that too. Pretty common in tree climbing when setting your climbing rope with a throw line.
@Mark6E Жыл бұрын
A single clove hitch with a permanently tied overhand stopper on the end of your cord is more than adequate and is what I use for tree work, never had it slip on 10mm+ ropes. I use clove for the ring on my throw bags and also works well for joining my throw cord to 4mm cord monkey fist knots, which I use for throwing when in the tree.
@therigloftmatthewotto4775 Жыл бұрын
I think I'm going to be with the group that says splice and small eye the end. Then you can just pass your primary through it tie a double overhand and you'll be all set. although I do have a sheet bend that I don't think you've probably seen before that I'll send you a picture of.
@brandonproffitt21 Жыл бұрын
I just spliced an eye to a fiddlestick on 7/64” amsteel and it works wonderfully, and if you need force a munter to the belay loop is quite effective. Also I can second using a bag, just flake it in a produce bag and roll and tie it.
@carlosmedeiros16779 ай бұрын
I always thread a flavorless dental floss in the mid of the rope. Any colour rope. Pass through any safety/belay/rappel device and is highly visible. In my 42 years climbing it sure helped me on a couple of tired rappels that could cause trouble otherwise. Oh BTW I love the Beal Escaper. Safe (scary but safe) believe me and lighter than a pull rope. Does not work in situations where a pull rope may marginally work (lots of drag) but it is rare.
@jrpefx Жыл бұрын
Hello you can add more wraps on the sheet bend for the thinner rope, 3-4-5-6 or more. Keep up the great stuff.
@brookdavis84258 ай бұрын
Single double and triple fischer might be cool to explore. Great video.
@spiercevaughn Жыл бұрын
I use dyneema throw lines for pulling climbing ropes into trees. I use a clove hitch a foot or two away from the end of the rope, and then follow it with a few half hitches with one or two at the very tip to keep it from snagging on branches. A clove hitch with dyneema (2-3mm) holds well on climbing rope and I have locked off the tail of the clove hitch with a bight over handed around the standing part to keep it from loosening if cyclically loaded at times. For this scenario, my go to would have been the clove hitch, locked off with a slipped over hand around the standing part, and double overhand stopper knot in the climbing rope. The slipped tie off makes it much easier to get undone too 😁
@Blck0Knght Жыл бұрын
The Zeppelin bend is supposed to be a good non-jamming knot for joining slippery ropes. I'd be fascinated to see it pull tested.
@spiercevaughn Жыл бұрын
Id like to see that too. I love the zeppelin bend- although doubt it would be useful in ropes with suck extreme size differences. I think it’s more for scenarios with a 9mm and a 13mm kind of size differences, not 2.3mm and 10mm I think- but I’m curious!
@j.a.schlatterer926 Жыл бұрын
How about the reever bend? Does it also work on differently sized ropes?
@IweinFuld Жыл бұрын
zeppelin is awesome, but it's very easy to shake loose, especially with slippery stuff and size diffs
@PeregrineBF Жыл бұрын
I sent him a bunch of knots 2 years ago, including Zeppelin bends. Video title is "Break Testing Knots - Zeppelin & Figure 8 & Alpine Butterfly & Reever & Bowline & Double Fisherman". I don't think it'd work well for Dyneema, and it would be even worse for a diameter difference this big. You really want to swap how you think about knots when it gets this big, you're no longer joining two ropes but rather joining one rope to pull on a larger diameter object, so a good hitch works better than a bend.
@hughmungushugh Жыл бұрын
I've always used a double sheet bend for this, though with 6mm nylon pull cord not 2.5mm dyneema. When making the double loop with the pull cord, you can cross the second loop under the first one and this is supposed to help with slipping. Another thing is tying off the running end of the pull cord, just an overhand around the standing end should help at least a little. I've put quite a bit of force on this setup while trying to unstick a rope and the knot was fine.
@PeregrineBF Жыл бұрын
I'd tie a friction hitch with extra wraps (probably an icicle hitch with 8 or 9 wraps) using the small rope, gripping the large rope. Then probably secure the large rope around the small using a double overhand, like half of the double fisherman's bend you had, that'd keep the end from flapping around in the breeze. It'd certainly be interesting to see icicle hitches with different numbers of wraps pull tested.
@cliffclof11 ай бұрын
Thought icicle first, too. But it is meant to tighten around a rigid body.
@chrisbeus911 Жыл бұрын
From 20 yrs of canyoneering experience it’s EDK all the way. I’ve only seen a couple comments that stated EDK, but I’m not sure they’re explaining it properly? Apologies if they did and I’m missing it. His overhand needed to be duplicated in reverse, joins different diameters wonderfully for those pull ropes. And also, wouldn’t waste time with the belay up top, just join the ropes and boogie down Love the content man! Big fan 😊
@z15227 ай бұрын
Used such a Reepschnur on the free rappel off the Grand Teton, in 1974. But, I had 6mm perlon, and would use it today over any Dyneema, as it knotted fine, the more important factor by far in this usage. I ran my single 11mm rope thru an SMC ring, then thru the rap ring anchor, then tied it to my ring; the 6mm then tied to my ring, so the ring and knot guaranteed no way it could pull through. I rapped, feeding out my 6mm, and at the bottom, pulled it. The ring slid down the rope fine, bringing the 11mm end with it, perhaps smoother than clipping a full carabiner would have done.
@dgiroday1 Жыл бұрын
I wasn't familiar with the thin dyneema cord. Keep the videos coming! Greetings from Canada!
@1981stonemonkey Жыл бұрын
4:24 To tie two ropes of differing diameters together, I have always used two double fisherman's knots. One each, on one end of each rope, gripping the other rope end. When done correctly, you pull both ropes and the knots slide together and "jam" against each other. Still, 9 vs 2.5mm diameter is a huge difference - I'd have to test it before I trust it. 9:02 I don't trust it.
@mountainmandoug Жыл бұрын
An essentially similar method of rappelling with short ropes has been in use by alpinists for years, except it is done without the specialized pull-cord. Instead you connect a bunch of your slings and cordalettes together on the pull side of the rope. I think the tool to import from canyoneering would be the stone-hitch knot block. I am debating about messing with a toggle in the mountains also. As far as tying your tiny dyneema string to your large rope, I think there are several options. I would be interested to see how bad a zepplin bend would be, and also a flemish bend. Possibly a flemish bend with the tail of the skinny string backed up with a double overhand. Others have commented about splicing the dyneema, and I think a spliced loop in the dyneema and then tie your rope through with a figure-8 like you did would be a decent option.
@mountainmandoug Жыл бұрын
Oh, and there is a simpler and safer way to set rope length in this context. Just lower the first person. The whole deal of having them rappel, and then lowering them, is something canyoneers do because the want to rappel off the end of the rope. Climbers don't want to rappel of the end, so you can just tie the first person in, lower until they are at the right spot, rig a knot block or reapschnear, rappel down until you find the other end of the rope, and then tie stuff onto the end until you have enough.
@leveller4 Жыл бұрын
Why do canyoneers want to rappel off the ends of their rope?
@mountainmandoug Жыл бұрын
@leveller4 sometimes they end the rappel in flowing water, where being attached to a rope could pull them under. They also want to avoid have rope in moving water that someone could get tangled up in.
@leveller4 Жыл бұрын
@@mountainmandoug so basically they already know that the rope is long enough?
@mountainmandoug Жыл бұрын
@leveller4 yes, it's actually that there ropes are longer than they want them to be.
@dereinzigwahreRichi Жыл бұрын
St work I'm regularely marking black fabric with white edding. Once it's dryed it has got quite good visibility and stays on the fabric.
@tonyjewell478 Жыл бұрын
I often carry a 50 foot length of 4mm cord for just this reason. (I mostly rappel in canyons these days.) Sometimes the beta is wrong or anchors get moved. It weighs about 6oz and has come in handy!
@mossyboy6 Жыл бұрын
There's a fishing knot called an albright which might be a really great solution here, it should hold better than most of the arborist knots mentioned, and its very low profile. My thinking is that with low friction line, you just need more wraps for more friction.
@samurijack110 Жыл бұрын
I was just going to suggest that. I use that for attaching monofilament to operating lines in theater
@txmountainman456 ай бұрын
For any future testing videos, I'd love to see how a Simple Simon Under (and maybe double) bend would perform here. My understanding is that it is a more secure option for mixed diameter ropes than the sheet bend.
@milskidato65748 ай бұрын
A pile hitch has worked great for me. I back it up with a couple of halfs but it works just fine for putting line in a tree,
@stephenbesch5331 Жыл бұрын
Maybe back the sheet bend up by putting a triple overhand ("half a triple fisherman's") on the dyneema tail? Or just try a triple scaffold knot with the dyneema through an 8 on the rope?
@Mordwand Жыл бұрын
Suppose we are doing this in an overhang. After we get down safely, when we were retrieving the rope, I guess the locking carabiner we used above would at some point have to do a big fall along with our rope. My questions are, 1 - How do you avoid carabiner falling onto you if you were in a tight spot? 2 - Having achieved part 1, should the carabiner be trusted after that big fall onto rocks?
@johngo6283 Жыл бұрын
It’s actually not a problem. The carabiner arrives in your hand pretty much the moment the rope falls from above
@maxgotts58956 ай бұрын
In that situation I'd probably just do soething silly like two backed-up bowlines! great video
@akokada973 Жыл бұрын
5:30 is it ok to use soft equipment directly on bolt like that?
@ColtonBlumhagen Жыл бұрын
I watch these videos and I have no desire to rock climb. My palms are sweaty watching them and I'm not even afraid of heights.
@buckmanriver Жыл бұрын
Great job with the new store!
@windriver2363 Жыл бұрын
If you are using a carabiner to back up the jam knot, just attach the tag line to the carabiner using any loop. Probably a bowline for nylon/polyester and a double bowline for dyneema. Also you can thread the tag line though the second side of your belay device to stop it from twisting around your main line.
@MooshYT Жыл бұрын
Hi HowNot2 if you want to mark your black rope, you can but Silver metallic sharpies etc. Perfect for blacks!!! Hope this helps👍😀
@Kolkritan Жыл бұрын
What about the Gibbs Offset Bend? Down fig 154 (also seen on Andy Kirkpatricks web page but KZbin doesn't allow links in comments anymore...)
@minecraftbers Жыл бұрын
I have started using the Reever Knot for most of non permanent joining now a days. So maybe give that one a go! It would be interesting how it reacts with such widely different diameter!
@booduh123 Жыл бұрын
You can back up the double sheet bend with a retrace. I wonder if that would've prevented the dyneema from slipping.
@clemytube Жыл бұрын
did you rappel down without doing screwing your biner gate? (see 3:36) is this because you see this as unecessary? I only ask because at the start you also didn't do the gate on your biner at the start of the video either. I think if I was climbing with you, I'd insist you do up the gates on your biners. It takes a fraction of a second and offers a huge confidence that you could never accidentally escape the system.
@yCherkashin6 ай бұрын
5:00 I'd hitch the small rope around an end bend in the big rope, just four consecutive loops to form a friction hitch, and put the small rope through the bend in the fat one first. Like a seaman. EDIT: in tree work I do this sort of thing all the time, use a short rope and retrieve it after rapelling.
@christophercraig3907 Жыл бұрын
half gibbs offset bend, but I also haven't done it with a dyneema pull cord so watching your EDK fail I'm not sure if a half gibbs would have pulled out or not. I also might have used an actual Gibbs there because the pull cord is so small the knot might be too small to block with a half gibbs. (If whatever you look it up on doesn't say, the dyneema would be the double wrapped cord in a half gibbs)
@ShortGuysBetaWorks Жыл бұрын
I've used a half Gibbs with a Petzl Pur Line which is HMPE, but admittedly thicker (6mm). The half Gibbs worked fine and is still small enough to not add a lot of additional risk to getting the rope stuck on the pull.
@heathvanaken7954 Жыл бұрын
Try two clove hitches with the dyneema 4” apart like arborists use with a throw line. Or a clove hitch and half hitch. Works for trees.
@elliottaustin-chirgwin8067 Жыл бұрын
I second this as an arborist. This will give you the lowest profile to avoid getting those big knots stuck. I pull ropes through tight branch unions all the time. Use a clove or two about 8 inches down the rope and then a simple series of half hitches to the end. Also tie a simple double fisherman in the end of the dyneema so that it won't be able to slip through the clove.
@janoahuerta Жыл бұрын
Yup, clove hitch onto your climbing line, with about a foot of tail, is the way I learned from professionals.
@RoastedSquid119 Жыл бұрын
Pile-half-half-clove hitch it is, super good enough
@pmv5322 Жыл бұрын
I use a girth hitch with 3 or 4 half hitches up to the end of the rope works every time
@bobbytables4305 Жыл бұрын
What are your thoughts on doing testing on Hunting Climbing Gear. Aka Saddles?
@guryflow Жыл бұрын
Awesome video! and i need your help! I have a 30 mts 9.5 triple homologated and a 30 mts 7.5 mm impermeab6rope. The idea is to carry both on crest climbing using the 9.5 mm as a secure and when we have to rapel 30 mts use both of the ropes, with the 7.5 mm not like a recovery but actually rappel from both. It would be awesome if you test this with a double fisherman and a double eight (this one a use a lot). I prefer in this way because is less like that the rope or the carabiner get jammed in rocks. Love tour channel, hope you are recovering, lots of love for you all ppl working there
@guryflow Жыл бұрын
ps. This plant 2 question. is the knot strong enough? can we rapel with a reverso using 2 different sized ropes?
@sbrownproductions Жыл бұрын
1:19 Would be interesting to have you test a homemade way, but I've seen metolius climbing ropes where they have some colored thread at the halfway mark. Wonder if there is any strength risk in a climber putting some thread on a needle and poking it through the rope a few times....
@aksela6912 Жыл бұрын
I'd try a "racking bend". Basically form a bight in the thick rope, insert the thin rope at the bottom and weave upwards in figures of eight as much as necessary. Finish with a half hitch or two.
@norbertboros4400 Жыл бұрын
I've been following you guys for a while and it's really awesome what you're doing with all the testing. I also recommend your channel for my students who are keen to look deeper into things. I like you always play safe and giving good example. Like in this video, always check your rig before unclipping your tether. I have just one question now: any reason for not using a third hand during rappel?
@josephprice5872 Жыл бұрын
Shh, he distracted you with something else to judge them by at the start, nevermind the lack of third hand! (Also, it's acknowledged if not fully excused at 9:40)
@gregorymock Жыл бұрын
I used to work at a place where you would take a leap of faith at the end of a high ropes course. At the end of the day so that we didn't have any dynamic ropes hanging up in the sun we would pull them through the pulley with a 'mouse line's we would attach the mouse line with a clove hitch on the end of the rope with a few half hitches above it. I guess to make it work for this system you could just tie a stopper at the quick links and then your clove and half hitches after that.
@mrwildman2607 Жыл бұрын
Could you do a slack test video on sliding x with limiter knots. When using a cordelette it would make for a extended version of the quad anchor.
@benjaminbordson7502 Жыл бұрын
Dig it. I do similar to retrieve rope end from trees but have it flaked in a bag and a pre spliced tight eye to clip. Or for throwlines attach it with a clove, girth, or constrictor a few feet up and follow with a couple half hitches to the end of the tail. Arb stuff
@benjaminbordson7502 Жыл бұрын
Oh also, for pulling the thin line. A good technique is to tie a munter on the biner so you can easily capture progress. If it slips you can twist the carabiner 1-3 times.
@davidliebenberg7798 Жыл бұрын
If you're tying a knot in dyneema you can add an overhand knot right behind it to help reduce denima slipping through your original not
@KL-wb8cx Жыл бұрын
I use oral b glide dental floss to mark my midpoint on dark ropes. I've heard of people passing floss through their rope, but I just wrap mine a bunch of times, and pass the ends under a few of the loops and pull them tight. It works great to see the midpoint, is cheap to replace, and doesn't hang up on better devices.
@Cruser1068 Жыл бұрын
I started reading that and thought you were going to say you use Dental floss as your pull rope :)
@kraftzion Жыл бұрын
I think the fishermens would work, just put more wraps on the dyneema. I am a fisherman, we use that knot for tying mono leaders to braid(dyneema) with more wraps of course. We also use back to back uni knots(with more wraps). 4 or 5 wraps aught to do it. I would like to see fishermens vs uni knot. The uniknot is easier to tie. Especially when you get out to 5 wraps or more.
@anotheryoutuber_ Жыл бұрын
same feels here, braid is some slippery stuff!
@randydewees7338 Жыл бұрын
I used some thick bright red thread on my 70 meter static line - I just used a needle and did a few loops and cut them, now there are threads sticking out that are easy enough to see.
@Matrix7041 Жыл бұрын
You can mark a black ropes middle with a silver or gold sharpie maybe
@noahbalmer Жыл бұрын
It's pretty easy to splice an eye into small amsteel, and for me that's always worked better than a knot.. For tiny stuff like that I have a piece of coat hanger wire on which I sanded the ends round. Tape the end of the wire to the end of the amsteel, use it as a fid to bury a long tail for a simple eye splice. Not a bad idea to put some stitches through it so it can't move around when unloaded. To attach it to a rope, just tie the rope through the spliced eye with whatever loop knot you like, e.g. fig8.
@pmv5322 Жыл бұрын
Girth hitch with a series of half hitches is what I use to pull rope through an anchor point in a tree after setting the throw line
@nithazra Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the fascinating content -as always. In regards to how to mark the middle of a black rope; I've seen suggestions that you could sow a marker at the mid-point only through the sheath and would love to see that break-tested!
@balazsjakabffy2556 Жыл бұрын
I know nothing about climbing gear but can't you put some colored tape on it?
@benlim6368 Жыл бұрын
For the same reasons we use a flat overhand to join ropes, it’s nice to use an overhand on a bight when rigging a reepschnur. For joining ropes of dissimilar diameter I like the Gibbs bend or half gibbs. Although I’ve never tied ropes so wildly different in diameter.
@enkick Жыл бұрын
Our text book for knots in Croatia says you should always use a TRIPLE fisherman's knot when tying dyneema. So onw rotation per knot more than a double fisherman's.
@Arkansassie Жыл бұрын
I love watching your stuff on your website, but I have a hard time finding the most recent stuff there, a sort by date option would be super good enough to fix this.
@roxane1237 Жыл бұрын
A friend of mine rappels with one rope and uses a device to retrieve the rope, looks like a nest of ropes or something. You put the end of your rappel rope in it like a sheath or something. And when you pull several times just like you did at 4:35 then the device comes off and you can retrieve the rope. I don't know how the device is called though or maybe it was homemade with dasy chains. I don't know.
@RogerBays Жыл бұрын
How about testing the following: Tie a permanent loop in the dyneema that the dyneema coil can pass through. And for that permanent knot ... tie an overhand then a finger width away tie another overhand knot then a further finger width away tie a third overhand knot. And of course test with 1, 2, and 3 knots to give a graph of strength increase. And if 3 no good try 4. Please note I am suggesting separate overhand knots, each independent in their own right rather than like a double overhand tied as one knot by wrapping round twice. That could work too, but hard to inspect! Hope helps.
@MLWAM Жыл бұрын
I use double or tripple clove hitch knots for treeclimbing when connecting two different ropes :)
@skitidet43028 ай бұрын
I was thinking of making interlocking loops by doing a barrel knot in each end of the rope. I see you did the same thing with a double 8. Which is better for the rope? I'm guessing the double 8.
@WildernessExcursions Жыл бұрын
Maybe try connecting the two ropes with just a single figure 8? Also as a canyoner, I would have simply used a carabiner block at the anchor using a clove hitch or stone knot.
@joshhall470Ай бұрын
Also I'm curious to see what happens to a rope pull / drop testing a knot block. I used one to climb a bit the other day trs but I'm pretty sure falling on it is a nogo.
@Martijn_Poot Жыл бұрын
With my 6mm tagline I either use two overhands knots tied after each other so with one snugged up against the other or a gibbs knot if i feel like it.
@christopherblake3190 Жыл бұрын
Hey I do that with the sling and belay loop! everyone always looks but it doesn't rub through and i dont leave it cinched down all the time so, im chillin!
@jdhill770 Жыл бұрын
First- watching this after news of your stroke. Very sorry to hear of the health issues, hopefully things don't worsen! In the same vein as this videos topic, in place of dyneema, teufelberger makes a product they call "Tech-cord" in both 3mm and 5mm diameters. It is a technora core, with a woven polyester sheath. Can you test the smaller diameter version and compare/contrast its performance in different knot strength/use with different friction devices for emergency egress use (e.g. munter and super-munter with a carabiner). Dyneema "works" here, but the polyester sheath may make the tech-cord work much better. Thanks much!
@michaelh88546 ай бұрын
noob question but why do you need the extender quick draw thingy attached to her ATC
@timseguine2 Жыл бұрын
I dunno what knot you should have used, but if I were in that exact situation, I probably would have tied the fisherman's knot. But that also might be because I don't know how to tie that many different knots. And if I am the one responsible for setting up the belay system, then probably at least three better, more experienced climbers already died on that trip.
@rymegkasri Жыл бұрын
IDK for climbing, but the zeppelin bend is a cool knot for this. haven't tried it with dyneema tho.