How to determine what your Villain Wants - Game Master Tips

[@same5294]

6 Types/Options of what the villain wants: Power (3:35) Status (7:40) Wealth (9:39) Revenge (11:27) Justification (13:58) Love (19:18)

[@EnduringFrost]

"They don't want Scotland..." That made me laugh. As a Scot, I really enjoyed that bit.

[@1redrider100]

EnduringFrost no one warns Scotland. Lack of natural resources, easily defended mountainous terrain and rebellious populations. Can I interest you in an easily suppressed and dominated Wales?

[@adamwelch8445]

EnduringFrost I think they wanted Scotland they just weren't tough enough to keep it !

[@CommanderM117]

indeed they had to build a wall we are the white walker/ wildling of the real world

[@CommanderM117]

so you call coal iron zinc forests that were more of back then lack of resources and fish lot of fish

[@santiagoluca8183]

you all prolly dont care but does anyone know a trick to log back into an instagram account? I somehow forgot my login password. I would love any assistance you can give me.

[@trogdor8764]

Tell me what he wants, what he really really wants.

[@KoruXypress]

He wanna, he wanna, he wanna, he wanna, he wanna really, really, really wanna zigazig ah ♥

[@KennyLastname]

XD

[@chaosmastermind]

Pretty sure he wants the spice. Also some girls.

[@juliuscaesar5397]

Cpréxt'x j'yc n'rán'én, n'rán'én ve-ve-verja'

[@edwardmayne9114]

My villain was a wizard who was bent on killing a goddess. His parents were killed by fanatics of the religion and held the goddess at fault and was seeking a powerful, forbidden spell to steal her portfolio for a short time and take the opportunity to destroy her. Unfortunately, the spell was forbidden because the first time it was used it broke part of reality as the gods are integral to maintaining the world. It created an awkward situation where the enemy was a tragic character with a good justification for his actions, but ultimately had to be stopped for the benefit of everyone else.

[@Anigmus_]

Edward Mayne that doesn't sound like a tragic villain with a good motive at all. In my opinion. Wanting to kill a god because some of its followers killed my family is a really bad motive. I would just go after the killers if I was a revenge villain. I think a good example of a revenge villain is the one from black panther. He had very believable motives

[@edwardmayne9114]

Anigmus, you misunderstand. The goddess in question was evil aligned and encouraged such behaviour among her followers. I use the word fanatic because the ones in question were much more evangelical about the whole thing. Ritual sacrifices were par for the course when worshipping her, so my villain decided to go for the cause of the problem, rather than just deal with the symptoms.

[@ronniejdio9411]

Your villian did nothing wrong

[@KennyLastname]

@@ronniejdio9411 that's what makes the villain relateable

[@jonathanwells223]

Edward Mayne I think I’ve heard this story before...

[@Deathbringersora]

There is also another type of villain, The Hero, a villain only to you that sees your adventurer group as a evil that needs to be stopped either because your group has been performing evil acts(Murder hobos or otherwise), has a evil artifact that could destroy everything(whether they know it or not) or have chosen the wrong side in a conflict. The Hero may be another adventurer party that is better equipped, higher level, has more allies than your party.

[@irontemplar6222]

Ehhh If your group is evil that the hero isn't a villain they are an antagonist not a villain. Villain implies evil actions by definition. If your group isn't evil, but the hero is still good. Then their is either some misunderstanding, or simply even though both parties are good people. They are ultimately apart of too competing sides and can't work together for one reason or another. In which case... they are an antagonist.

[@Deathbringersora]

@@irontemplar6222 From a certain point of view, all the actions of the supposive villain could be justified as the actions needed to save people, but in the end good and evil are subjective because both sides may claim to be good but see the opposing side as evil. While you claim that would make them antagonists, that is only through the lens of someone that understands both sides, and that is often not the case.

[@irontemplar6222]

@@Deathbringersora no. I mean seriously how can you both acknowledge the fact their is an adjective truth, good and evil. Then also imply they are subjective. Good and evil aren't subjective just because too sides claim they are good and the other is evil. Perspective is subjective, but just because perception is subjective dosnt mean that what is adjective does not exist.

[@Deathbringersora]

@@irontemplar6222 Being a villain is LARGELY subjective, point of view is really important, very few villains actually think they are evil but instead have goals that can be seen as evil from the other side or even misunderstood as villainous acts. Nothing is good and evil, it is the perspective of those that view it that makes it so, whether misunderstood or otherwise.

[@irontemplar6222]

@@Deathbringersora perception is not reality. Just because a villian does not see themselves as a villain. Does not make that the case. Also i will point out that plenty of who are villians don't necessarily see themselves as heros, or even people doing the right thing. Some people know damn well what they are doing is evil, and simply don't care because it makes their lives better, or ruins the lives of others. To use fiction as an example. The character of little finger from GOT (and the books aswell if I remmber right) he knows damn well he's the bad guy. "Chaos is a ladder" i mean he basically orcastrates the events of the game of thrones and all so he might have a better position at the end of it. The idea that everyone is the hero of their own story kinda falls apart. Because it follows the idea that everyone has good intent. What determines if a person is a hero or a villain, or even just a neutral person. Is Intent, actions, and circumstances.

[@BrazenBard]

So a campaign I've been contemplating for a while, which could offer a hilarious payoff at the end... Someone is stealing the bodies of an old mercantile family, abducting druids, and searching for something, or multiple somethings... As the adventure proceeds, the party might learn that someone is trying not to raise an army of the undead, but interrogating the spirits of the departed for some specific information, and apparently trying to bring back some plant that's apparently been driven to extinction... As it turns out, this unaging Necromancer just ran out of his favourite mustard, discovered that the makers went bankrupt after a nasty plantation fire, and now he's overturning heaven and earth to find someone with the secret family recipe and the particular subspecies of mustard plant needed for the greatly beloved condiment. And, of course, he needs a labor force to actually make the mustard, too. :P

[@icecold1805]

devilishly delicious

[@bionicdragon5]

The Dijon of Destruction!

[@euansmith3699]

Is the Necromancer called, Grey Poupon?

[@chaosmastermind]

HE NEEDS THAT SZECHUAN SAUCE!!

[@HenriqueLSilva]

Now that's an entirely new level of wanting something at all costs.

[@Tuchulu]

My villain was a dwarven artisan who wanted his masteripiece back. AT. ANY. COST. Heavily inspired by Dwarf Fortress

[@francislelievre5172]

Tolkien & Rowling had dwarves & goblins each expect that their crafts sold to shorter lived humans should legally revert to their creator's ownership upon death.

[@andrewmoldovan7169]

please tell me it is just a sock

[@SarujinieUras]

A sock made from dwarf skin that menaced with spikes of soap and adorned with pond turtle shell

[@mortemtyrannus8813]

On the sock is a depiction of a dwarf and cheese. The dwarf is cowering from the cheese.

[@Ralndrath]

I did the sympathetic villain in one of my campaigns, the world was ruled by a dictatorial theocracy and he wanted to depose it for a secular government one with more freedoms etc, but he would be supreme leader of course and he didn't give a shit about the collateral damage on the way. (The PCs were part of a faction fighting said theocracy, but they fought it in a far more subtle and less murdery way. A faction the villain is still a part of, but he's using his inside position to undermine them) He was based off Loki from the MCU except he was way more effective and he manipulated the PCs like string puppets. He was apparently so charismatic when he did the inevitable, 'join me' speech (not join me or die as they were far more useful to him alive at the time) They did, and it derailed the entire campaign. I do love the Well Intentioned Extremist trope. Although they got all upset about him placing a fail safe magic within them that would kill them if they tried to betray him to which I said, 'well, he is the villain.' lol

[@lord_kyjax4450]

"But she will be mine or shee wiIll BUUUUUUUUUUUURRNN!"

[@nyankers]

I'd argue that in avoiding bland "I'm evil lol" villains, you've overlooked one major desire: Reaction: villains that want to make others react to them. This is similar to the power goal, but the ends are very different. The reaction might vary, for example one villain might want to make the whole world feel tragedy to better understand the sadness that atrocities bring (Naruto), while another might want to make people act in opposition of law or morals (a particularly famous Joker adaptation), but they don't want power itself, they want to make others react to them. An important distinction, as while power remains useful to their goal, they can nevertheless act out their goal in even the smallest of ways, which makes them a great scalable villain. You could easily take this in any sort of direction, even including a villain who wants to make other people happy... and perhaps kills them once they achieve that to preserve that happiness... or maybe they're a minor god of happiness, and the only people who believe in them are themselves ruthless villains.

[@TreeHairedGingerAle]

This is a great addition! Many abusers tend to work this way, which is why their M.O. tends to be about making sure to methodically cut off their victims connections: isolating them from everyone else except the abuser. Or otherwise, the abuser will try to corner their victims in such a way that, even if the victims escape, they can't actually cut the abuser from their lives completely: they always have to, at least regularly, deal with the abuser for whatever reason, such as shared custody, or support needs, or maybe an important family member is convinced that they did nothing wrong.... and so, to keep peace in the family, they're forced to make nice on occasion. And so, the abuser can *keep* getting the reactions that they seek, albeit less frequently.

[@jakerockznoodles]

@@TreeHairedGingerAle The other side to abusers, is that they desire power, but not accumulation so much as power over a very specific person. This is another common motivation, and it could be power over a person, a group or a nation/organisation. The reasons could be many. Perhaps it feels good/comforting to them to have that kind of control. It could be a form of revenge, power over people who had made them feel powerless. Or it could be a way to achieve a secondary motivation, be that status, wealth or maybe something even more specific.

[@felipehonoriobs]

I had a villain with a reasonable justifiable reason, but when their allied npcs pointed to the problems in his plans, my PCs were like "you know what? we got unfinished business, we don't want any part on this". I felt proud for creating a relatable villain and also lost on what the hell do I do now? lmao

[@cristianflores2494]

The greatest villains have justified reasons but their methods are cruel and evil. Look at Killmonger from Black Panther, he was raised in an oppresive environment, and wants to uplift african nations and peoples mistreated in the past, but he wants to mass murder white people to do so.

[@jamesgarratt1266]

Felipe Holanda my advice is this: Have your villain do something that is so bad that it makes your PCs find a excuse to fight him but Doesn't break the villain's character

[@Cloud_Seeker]

Cristian Flores Not always. The Joker from The Dark Knight just wants the world to burn. He doesn't have a lot of resources, and he wins by the end. He sets up a situation where Gotham have to expose who Two-Face really is, or whitewash it and cover up Two-Face crimes which will make Gotham unite under a criminal. The Joker doesn't care if he is being hurt by Batman, he doesn't care for himself as he only want to show everyone how stupid they all are.

[@oldmanjobie3735]

How about people opposed to the original villain become the new villains? "You guys could have stopped him,but since you didn't, we're going to stomp you!"

[@omlo9093]

You've won. Now it's time for you villain to achieve their evil schemes and possibly mess up the world.

[@chadk5231]

I make my villains, as some might see, backwards I usually have a cool magic item or ritual in mind and think what type of character would desire that object or outcome. With that out of the way my villains are very much dynamic so if they have too much trouble getting what they want they may change what they want or what they will use to get it.

[@salansar6661]

I love the Moral dilemma. My wife, who is a player in my current game, is running a true must save everyone doctor. I introduced a moral dilemma where she actually convinced the rest of the party to join with the opposition because she felt their cause was more just than the group that they were working for.

[@salansar6661]

No thank you. If she doesn't want to play that is fine but our hobbies make us happy then they should respect that and let us do it. My wife sat in on quite a few games when we were dating before she joined the game.

[@amayasasaki2848]

I don't understand why anyone would do that. I'm enjoying DMing a game for my hubby, my cousin, and a couple of friends. I had gotten to play a homebrew 4e campaign for a year and loved it. I couldn't seem to find a group, so I started one. My hubby hadn't ever played before, but he's loving it. We're playing a blend of 4th and 5th this time since it was my first time DMing and 4th is what I was familiar with. Having a better understanding of 5e now, I would go 5e all the way next time around.

[@salansar6661]

I understand completely. The female nerds are out there. Lol my current table only has two males, including myself, versus four women

[@salansar6661]

Manumitier you may also want to consider cities like Boise or Portland. Boise has a fairly High nerd population, but cost of living there is less.

[@salansar6661]

Manumitier I am from Idaho so I can say with all certainty that Boise is a fantastic city.

[@jamesgarratt1266]

I personally prefer a villainous organization over a single villainous person for a variety of reasons that could be to your campaigns for example: A organization that believes in a certain philosophy and has been founded to achieve their ideological utopia regardless of the reality of the situation or even how much people hate them and are fighting back while the organization is using massive amounts of conscript troops and throwing their lives away pointlessly because of the "greater good" and have been mentality conditioned to obey orders without question has captured prisoners to "check their privilege" by being literally slaves in forges and collective farms committing war crimes (like massive amounts of raping for example because the solider was ordered to by his/her commander and had to obey orders) and that it is "compassionate". The organization leadership is so far off in the background that you (the PCs) may not even know who they are for example a "council of the people" who control the organization's grand logistical upkeep and day to day actions not even caring the individual solider or even small scale battles because in the end it's all about equality and the greater good after all... Thank you for reading this and your suggestions and insight is most welcome.

[@derkrischa3720]

Great idea! You could even make it more "radical" by letting the original founder be killed by his underlings, becouse he showed, that he didn't realy beleave in the "greater good" when he spoke out against the perversion and radicalisation of his original ideas. A little bit like inEquilibrium, where the head of state was dead for a long time, but was venerated in a saintlike fashion even years later.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

Yes, organizations are great villains... 1. Large organizations (as pointed out) often have vague and dubiously ubiquitous leaderships... These mysterious leaderships (councils and the like) can be vague enough to avoid PC's for almost indefinite amounts of time, yet close enough (by reference OR proxy) to "feel" present in every game session. 2. A large enough organization can be "factioned"... This can add a layer of Role Play and Story-craft to the game. Some of this organization might even be "friendly" in their modest efforts to "get back to core values" within the system... and even help the PC's against "the greater evil" or some "usurper" within the dodgier factions. 3. Any organization has a culture... and as a culture, there's almost a guarantee of some kind of counter-culture showing up somewhere. Now, while this sounds like the faction idea, it's here (under #3) because it does NOT have to be an internal faction. Counter-cultural movements happen all the time IRL in regular society. As soon as you gain a movement of political or social purview one direction, there's a counter-operative to resist it or outright rebel against it... See also, Hippies vs Punks, both of which originated in Berkley, California... some dubiously even put both movements of Pop-culture as starting on the same street-corner... (but... whatever)... 4. Organizations have RESOURCES, and if you're even tacitly familiar with "The Art of War", a cardinal principal of warfare is that every cart of your enemy's resources is worth 8 carts of your own. In RPG's this presents the requisite for being able to continuously pirate, steal, and smuggle away some form of enemy's supplies to weaken them while bolstering your PCs' resources and powers at the same time... a rather high priority for most Players. Organizations already have an infrastructure of some (primitive) kind at the very least, and supplies are going to be forth-coming. Where a singular villainous entity, like a Lich, would only need a certain (and fairly short) list of supplies for operations over time, an organized network will require an industrialized supply chain to keep things running "smoothly". It gives an exploitable narrative resource for those Players who absolutely love to cause mischief and mayhem, even that their own imaginations probably run wilder with the degree to which disruptions cause inconvenience. 5. Operative secrecies within organizations tend to increase "tall tales"... Now, here's where it gets a little weird. Firstly, it depends on how secretive an organization might "actually" be in the game, but the more secretive the operation, the more likely there will be supposition offered as if it was cardinal truth to the PC's. It's not lying, at least not outright, when people around a secretive Order are telling half-truths and completely fictional accounts about relatives who've simply vanished overnight. They're rightly scared of what's "actually going on" behind the secrecy, BUT they simply do NOT know what that is. As with normal (IRL) people, we often make "intuitive leaps" about things we can't readily understand or explain, and it's all too easy for intuitive leaps to become complete fabrication... USE THAT. Feed the PC's so full of BS, they don't know what the hell they're looking for... at least, in the beginning. This kind of principle grants a GM complete license to create whatever utterly unjustifiable blathering he or she wants, and only later does any REAL investigation reveal anything for what it is or can be proven. The caveat, of course, is that whatever you (GM) do fabricate, you should take notes. Some of them will be to remember how to prove what's right or wrong later, but some will also be for creating the more dramatic or "better" reveal. Any big reveal should come across the table like a solid kick in the nuts... maybe not quite as deeply painful or disturbing, but CERTAINLY every bit as dramatic for the Players. ;o)

[@adamwelch8445]

James Garratt organized crime Lord's and organizations are a fun way to go

[@adamwelch8445]

James Garratt I also enjoyed the concept of betrayal in a group of criminals

[@grogmadman522]

James Garratt *Utopia theme plays*

[@grymhild]

people are rarely the villains in their own story.

[@jamesgarratt1266]

grymhild don't you mean "Nobody sees themselves as a villain" ?

[@grymhild]

James Garratt , lol, yes! that's basically what i meant. :-) like, petty much everyone sees the story of their life as the main character, and in that story they know their backstory and reasons why they're doing what they're doing. Lolthian priestesses can seem pretty evil from an outside perspective, but from their point of view, they are doing what they need to do to survive in an incredibly dangerous and competitive environment snd culture.

[@MrGamernova]

Well this goddess that always lies says we're the good guys... wait. But yeah I get you. Though it doesn't hurt to have then ask the same questions you have the players ask. After all, a Lolthian priestesses that legit tries her best to help her allies whenever & however she can, is much more interesting then a Lolthian priestesses that just deems her self a hero without doing anything out of the ordinary.

[@nonyabizness956]

I love that your icon is Elphaba, it seems fitting that you'd say that lol

[@KennyLastname]

*I see myself as the villain. The one everyone disagrees with and "must" defeat. The one with villainous motives that no HERO will understand.* Well that was deep.

[@vermillionwraith7810]

My current campaign is taking place during an international tournament itual between kingdoms. The villains of my campaign are a group of arms dealers and mages assassinating various nobles from different kingdoms however rather than the death of the nobles themselves being the goal they are doing these acts to create a war between the various nation so they can then profit off the war economy. What makes it really fun is that one of my players met one of the antegonists and became his aprentice in alchemy so that will be a fun twist.

[@dukedevlan5457]

Reminds me of street fighter

[@vermillionwraith7810]

Duke Devlan yeah that’s more or less the feel I was going for at the time :)

[@Tasfarel]

Villains with a justification are in my opinion one of the best villains. Sure a psycopath who just wants to bring havoc to the realm can be very entertaining for a campaign. But this kind of villain can get old and boring very quickly. "Oh look, another nutsack with a god complex. Guys, you know the drill"

[@derkrischa3720]

That roman-inpression was awesome! I think in addition to these villain-motivations, there is also the PROTECTION of them. A megacorporation-boss who sends a hitsquad to kill a petty hacker (by chance a friend of the players) donsn't realy care for revenge, he cares for his reputation as the biggest and scariest Shark in the pond and nobody will survive even TRYING to steal his data. The mastermind behind the dungeon will protect the treasures in there against the looting band of strangers, which broke in the cellar. It was hard work to get all seven books of the archmage McGuffin, so they will protect them with everything available. etc. For the justification-villain I would advice to use extremes. either use extreme measures od let them have ideals to such an extreme, that they become simply bad. OR to effect the players themself. A crazy Cleric, that wants to get rid of evil necromancers, so he trys to bannish ALL magic, no matter the kind. At least the mage in the party will object, even if he himself hates necromancers. I once used a mage, that wanted to find a way to make everyone immortal and invulnerable to dissease. Clearly a good and noble motivation, but he only could mabnage to find a way to transfere lifeforce. So every so often he destroied a village to elongate his own life, to continue experimenting. Eternal life for everyone is good, but if he kills the nice blacksmith and the singing milkmaid, the players just met, they will not be so shaken to deal with him in a very uncomftable way...

[@alejandrogangotena9033]

Absolutely awesome! I do think I can contribute something here though: You say once the Status need has been accomplished he needs to move on to other ones: Not necessarily true if you add paranoia. Sure, you already accomplished being the king or the best cheff in the world... but what about the competition that´s comming? Sure, you are the best selling rockstar and your album is the highest any album has ever been... but you are not getting any younger, and your looks matter a lot for most of your fanbase. So it´s just a thought on how to keep using status once the villain has accomplished it. If you want this to be one of those villains that no one yet knows who they are they are the king everyone loves or even the favorite rockstar of one of the party members. Maybe they saved each other more than once!

[@zombiemouse]

Loved this video! Best campaign I ever ran the antagonist had his wife, child, and parents die suddenly within a year. He then became obsessed with immortality to a fault. He sought out vampirism and then made a deal with a demon. Needless to say things kinda went downhill from there.

[@funguy398]

Best stories has moral dilemmas because it starts discussion.

[@Flashfirefoxone]

one of the best campaigns i was in, the players had to decide if they were to kill the "villain" now which would stop people dieing but would leave the kingdom worse in the long term due to corruption both politically and of the land, or if they wanted to switch sides and join the "villain" and wipe out corrupted villages and politicians which would cause alot of suffering short term but in the long term would make the kingdom thrive and better off

[@erik95056]

Since Comic book movies were mentioned, look at civil war, *spoilers* the intrigue at the end was amazing, you feel divided, everyone is justified, everione is a victim. On a campaign, agreeing with the Villain can get you a new patron, a new hireling, some PVP, a new focus...

[@flamephlegm]

Like Skyrim

[@matteussilvestre8583]

I actually liked Thanos' motivation in Infinity War. He wants to apply the solution that he thought would have saved his world, but is too blinded by his tragedy to see other solutions the Infinity Stones would allow. I'm not sure how the "crush on Mistress Death" would work, as the MCU doesn't seem too big on cosmic entities like that.

[@thedogisaneldritchgod491]

I am so happy they didn't go for the Death idea. It's honestly juvenile and cringe inducing. Agreed, Thanos is shown to be calm, collected and intelligent. He knows how to temper his emotions and ideals. These traits would heavily conflict with that raging boner bs.

[@nikolaluburic]

Nothing wrong with his motivation, only the solution. Not enough food? Halve the mouths to feed instead of doubling the food. Oh, and give no explanation as to why you do it, god (Thanos) forbid civilizations learn to control their population.

[@Durandurandal]

He's too blinded to see that it isn't a universal issue. I've said repeatedly that here, on Earth, we don't (and won't for a good time) have a resource shortage problem. What we have is a resource distribution problem. That said, Thanos is a nutter so he's not supposed to make sense.

[@Leafy1-j1l]

Ain't no such thing as a 100% rational being. You can be calm, collected, even-tempered and intelligent most of the time (with a rather extreme amount of discipline) but if your psychology is even vaguely human-adjacent, you *do* have things you're irrational about. Isaac Newton's genius in the fields of cosmology and physics didn't stop him from pissing away shameful amounts of his life on alchemy. Aristotle, despite being a brilliant philosopher, still thought women had fewer teeth than men. despite being married twice.

[@primeemperor9196]

Yeah, if I was Thanos, I'd just double the universe's size and fill it with the resources it needs. That way, life doesn't go "unchecked", as he says when talking to Gamora, and nobody has to die.

[@silverjaiden2450]

Thanos is wrong. An infinite universe can’t run out of resources... he mistook his original worry of 1 planet running out of resources for the impossible worry of the universe running out of resources..

[@PhyreI3ird]

Yeah. Even if he went to the literal edges of the universe, and found that it was actually finite, he somehow NEVER thought to use those INFINITY stones he'd pursued for ages to just ya know expand the universe a bit at a time or something. He had damn near literal infinite options at his disposal and literally only went with freaking THAT. I'm honestly surprised how very few people picked up on that.

[@Stephen-Fox]

Additionally, we've run experiments on what happens when you suddenly remove half of a population from an environment - Consumption increases to the point where everyone dies. Killing half the population doesn't even work on the local problem of 1 planet running out of resources (And even if it did, I'd also be suspicious that he was mistaking a distribution problem for a resource problem)

[@FelipeKana1]

You shoul put some texts in the screen as you go throught the different points

[@TheBlackLantern34]

Agreed. I really enjoy his videos, but they would be made much better and much easier to follow with at least title cards for each main point.

[@isectoid9454]

Justification mixes well with most of the others, too. "I want more power to ensure I am strong enough to face whatever threats may come, even if I have to become a voracious lich who devours entire villages to do so." "I need to become god-emperor to rule and guide the foolish commoners." Have him talk justification, but have every action he makes be more in service of power or status or revenge more than justice.

[@candiedginger8729]

In the Kim Possible cartoon series both Senor Signore Sr and Dr Drakon had love as their want.

[@hungrygremlin5151]

On justified villians, if the villian's justfication relies upon a "lesser evil" principle (sacrafice a few to save many, etc) (aka GM option 1) it's only justified so long as there IS no better option. Example: if people are starving, and there is no way to feed them you could justify killing a bunch of them to relieve the pressure on everyone else (who needs farmers and infrestructure anyway). But long-term the same issue could be resolved through managing the amount of people born, and while utterly horrid to the people starving now, it prevents a repeat situation. While mass-slaughter just stalls for time until it happens again. OR, (GM option 2) if you present a dilema, such as safety at the cost of free will, your players may in fact stand on the oppisite side of the dilema as you do. And a Justified Villian story may need to become a Morals vs. NPCs-I've-become-attatched-to story where your players face off against their once-allies. Que heartbreak and betrayal. This may cause your themes to switch over to commentary on what it means to care and how far one will go to see things done, which is more or less a more personaly invested take on justification. With some foresight and a few slight tweaks, a justified villian set up can double for a truely harrowing sacrifice tale, commenting on the price we pay for change. Or (GM option 3) you could pull a Palpatine, and have your players make more and more difficult choices, leading them in baby steps to the dark side. Once they no longer blink (or do so with regret but no hesitation) in sacrificing a small town to stop an oncoming [insert threat here], have a dewy-eyed paladin in shining armor try and stop them, revealing the players to be the justified villian, mwahahaha! (Maybe not the focal point of your campaign) I mean, none of this **** is easy, but if you're looking forward to seeing how your players will react, to seeing how they've grown, it's well worth the effort. (and remember, small scale acts of foreshadowing makes large scale "oh-****" moments believable)

[@lordinquisitor6233]

I’ve got a vampire that my players wounded in the face , burning half of it. They are currently fight a resurrected mummy in Egypt and when they get back they are going to find the house burnt down and now have a bloodthirsty vengeful vampire to deal with

[@derkrischa3720]

Do they by any chance have some family, that wits sobbing in the ruins? Maybe with suspiciousely pale skin and longer teath?

[@Sethisroaming]

I don't even play d&d but this guys content is enjoyable enough that I've watched like all his videos.

[@valasafantastic1055]

Thanos was blinded to less evil solutions and obsessed with his "pet solution" when clearly other less evil solutions would exist with the power of the infinity stones such as : Creation more resources. He was also blinded and saw ALL worlds as if they were currently his own world at the exact same breaking point of collapse rather than seeing them as they actually currently are. He had no other thoughts for creative and less evil solutions nor any way of solving things in a BETTER manner. He was defiantly in the wrong and a villain but made some sense in terms of a logical motivation but just as clearly in the wrong. He also was completely unreasonable and could not be talked to or persuaded in any way and just had to be stopped. Again great villain in my opinion! Also great video and yes the Justification villain is the hardest to toe the line with so that they have a logical consistency and are understandable BUT so the players don't switch sides with them. The solution is this: Always present a clear non evil alternative to the villains way. With the X-men they had the get along and co-exist peacefully of Charles Xavier otherwise heck most PC's would obviously team up with Magneto! I reiterate if you write a villain like this ALWAYS have a clear and already presented Good (or at least better/not evil) solution! Otherwise.... Well it can turn down a dark path of justification and make the DM regret their choices.... Great Video thanks!

[@timchrisman]

I have started to watch you and this series specifically very recently. Actually right after I ran the first session to my first ever campaign as a DM and this series has really elevated the ideas I have had for my story so thank you so much for making these videos, I have never been more excited to play D&D.

[@LGSN96]

Ohh how I needed this.. Your timing is impeccable.

[@TheFreedom103]

Thank you for the desires of villains you described here. It really helps me point out what the antagonist in my current campaign wants. If you guys want to take a look at my current antagonist then there is a description of the background underneath: From the beginning I wanted a villain that the players can understand so I went with a prince who is third in line for the throne. He is loved by the people for being a worthy and powerful crusader. He wants to protect his people from all great evil and invasions. The land currently has very limited magic sources so it is hard to use anything above lvl 3 spells. As another nation has declared rather aggressive provocations and the fact that the current king is dying, he finds his older brothers to be incompetent and wants to make sure that at least someone with good intentions gets the throne. In order to protect the country he decides that he is the one that needs to lead the armies and ready the nation for an upcoming war. In order to defeat the upcoming threat he made a pact with powerful beings, they told him of a way to bring magic back to the country and how to harness the power of all that magical energy in a single weapon. But the prince doesn't know that the situation is being manipulated. He is basically willing to give up everything in order to protect the nation that he loves and he just doesn't see any more options. So the heros are set on a quest to find out who is manipulating the prince. Destroy a doomsday device that would cost everyone dearly. And stop or fight in an upcoming war. They might also want to bring back magic to the nation but that is for the players and of course any "contractors" they might sign with. Thank you if you are reading this and feedback is welcome. P.S. I am not a native speaker and I am dyslexic so go easy on the grammar.

[@MorteMcAdaver]

This has given me much to think about for a smallfolk campaign I'm brewing up. Thank you for this video!

[@SwaagMan]

The reason why Thano's justification is flawed is due to one thing: The Infinity Gauntlet. The Infinity Gauntlet basically gives the wielder the powers of a god. Being able to create and destroy anything with little to no limits except the person's will-power. There are billions of possible ideas that could be made reality to solve the resource problem (create unlimited resources? Create more planets? Galaxies?? UNIVERSES??!!) But Thanos let his emotional trauma from the destruction of his home planet blind him to exploring any other alternatives. Instead, he murders half the universe. These actions are what make him a villain. While the Avengers are heroes for trying to preserve life and finding another way to solve this problem. Great video btw :)

[@chron874]

Hey Guy, i have recently stumbled upon Microscope RPG, it would be cool to know your point of view on the game. To give you a broad idea what it is about, it is basically a turn-based worldbuilding game. Really cool. I use it together with my players to build the background history for my homebrew campaign, and it works wonders. They actually care about the history because they built it.

[@LadyAndara]

I enjoyed this video. It's interesting that it is a great breakdown of one of the core mechanics I love about the Exalted 3 RPG - Intimacies. Everyone has relationships or principles which are the core motivation for their actions. Working with an intimacy gives you a better chance of success, where working against it is harder. Players get xp for upholding them, which directly encourages good role playing. It was one of those role playing-changing concepts for me, and I like how you presented it in terms of villain creation.

[@simonjames8724]

Definitely able to flesh out my villian in my campaign with this advise. Thank you very much Guy!

[@DarthBoberEXMinMaxMunchking]

I have a combination of those wants for a villain in my own campaign I'm currently fleshing out, the primary one being revenge. I think the revenge of an Empyrean who was abducted by demons, tortured to the point of turning unstable and evil and then being forbidden from ever coming back to the upper planes due to his now evil nature has a potential to cause a real moral dilemma in the party. On one hand, you are obviously dealing with an evil titan here, but the true motivation behind his actions is totally legitimate and likely even justifiable. He'll probably get murderhoboed, but I really hope players pick up on the finer cues and decide to go the harder route and actually decide to try and work out some kind of compromise or maybe even help the villain out exact his revenge and bring justice to the planar table :)

[@ThibautVDP]

exactly. sympathising with the villain. maybe the party sees the pain of the villain and tries the diplomatic approach first. "this isn't the way to do it!" or "just stop all this madness and we'll let you go". and then if they dont surrender you can use the high ground and dismember them.

[@Cloud_Seeker]

You mean like in Fallout 1. You can sympathize with the Master. All he wants to do is to transform all humans into Super Mutants to make everyone genderless and speciesless in order to unify humanity. He thinks this will heal humanity and help make the world that been hit by Bombs able to progress without all problems from before. The ONLY way to stop him is to kill him, or prove to him the plan will fail because Super Mutants can't breed. He can't be talked down on moral grounds. You can always join him, as flawed as his reasoning is and become a super mutant.

[@Wrathgir]

Thank you for making this video. I have been trying to figure out the villains and the BBEG’s intentions of why they want what they want. It falls so into place that it would work. And all thanks to you suggesting certain things they may want.

[@Mollohandro]

I thoroughly enjoy how you analyze villainy!

[@QuadQuantum]

I'm currently writing a campaign with revenge as the villains motive. I loved your thoughts on being justified; that was an angle I'd not considered. Excellent video!

[@heroesdelve]

I'm still in the process of world building and this helped bring ideas about some of my potential antagonists, or local rulers which will set the mood of the territory that the character are in. Thanks yet again for another great video!

[@Frederic_S]

Always worth a rewatch. A great topic still to this day. And ist is often forgoten by GM‘s or the answer is to week. Also it is reminding us not always to the same motives. Thank you a lot Guy.

[@seanfeezor4575]

Thank you thank you! I've been struggling with the why for my villain. Love is the answer! It's gonna be epic! Keep up the good work!

[@BearlyTim]

You're spot on with Thanos. That was the beauty of that film. The heroes (our concept of who we identify as heroes) were the ones who were standing in the way of the universes' salvation. Of course, Thanos' moral compass assumes that the universe is dying because of the example of his home. It made Thanos as a way more complex and interesting villain.

[@arredatorediinferni5165]

I thought it was a bit weak. I feel like Thanos should have been trying to save planets and civilizations from Galactus (hence their savior). If he wipes out half of them, they stay off Galactus' menu. Their wouldn't be enough energy there to justify the voyage. His big plan to acquire the Infinity stones is to wipe half the life on all planets, finally starving Galactus. It would also show how powerful Galactus is, even with the Infinity stones, Thanos is no match for Galactus.

[@ilikeyourname4807]

I think having an ambiguous villain is an interesting idea to explore specifically for interactive media and even more so for TTRPGs. Having all the possibilities open for the players to find other solutions than killking who they believe to be their enemy is to my eye the greatest expression of player agency. It takes a skillful GM and isn't practical in small settings like single adventures and such, but I'm convinced that a villain does not have to be the antithesis of the players

[@Flashfirefoxone]

i love games that make you think or question yourself, one of the best campaigns i was in, the players had to decide if they were to kill the "villain" now which would stop people dieing but would leave the kingdom worse in the long term due to corruption both politically and of the land, or if they wanted to switch sides and join the "villain" and wipe out corrupted villages and politicians which would cause alot of suffering short term but in the long term would make the kingdom thrive and better off

[@Kymlaar]

Great video, as always. When it comes to justification stories, I think there is a key element that keeps the villains firmly established as villains. Their character has to be, in some way, flawed such that they are incapable of seeing, recognizing, or accepting that their underlying premise is flawed as well. The villain who doesn't see it as even a possibility that Dwarves and Elves could get along, thus the Elves must be destroyed so the Dwarves remain as guardians against the Underdark (Perhaps only their conflict against the Elves kept them warlike enough to act as said guardians? Or perhaps the pair could become allies in time, and security increased). In that way, I believe that justification stories are extremely human stories. They focus on the idea of hope, and the villains lack of. They can't even recognize the possibility that people can be better than they are, or than they have seen them to be. They are pessimistic, often broken, or looking at a reflection of themselves in humanity, not realizing that their own efforts have made that reflection be. An important component of them, though, must be grace. The people that, in a situation that seems hopeless and terrible rise above their situation to act as a beacon of goodness. The person who takes in refuge children and teaches them of how things could be. The healer who puts themselves at risk to lessen the suffering of others. The ones who stand up, and don't turn away from the challenge of facing down the villain or their minions, simply so that some others might escape to live another day.

[@Mathignihilcehk]

Don't forget miscommunication or misunderstandings or difference in perspective. Basically, your villain doesn't have to be evil. They just need to have goals that conflict with the players. For example, if two countries are in a war of extermination, and the players are in one country, they won't much like the other country... especially if said country murders all of their families etc. Is that other country evil and only after power? Well maybe they are, but so is your own country. The whole conflict might be entirely perpetuated because neither trusts the other enough to accept a surrender. Or, alternatively, two people read a prophesy differently. One group thinks that they must activate an ancient relic to save the world, the other thinks they must destroy it to save the world. Neither side agrees, and both are willing to go to extraordinary lengths to achieve their ends. These can allow the players to research the true issue, without making the knowledge of why people are fighting instantly resolve the conflict. OK, so you know the two countries both want peace, but don't trust each-other. There is no way to convince either ruler to trust the other, except to win the war in some way and then "forgive" them after you've defeated them. In the same way, even if you found new information, nobody would believe it until you destroyed/activated the relic and proved your point.

[@MrBeekhead]

I think the best way to make justification work for a villain is to still have a psychotic villain who understands something about the way things are just a little incorrectly. This causes them to deviate even further from the accepted norm to increasing extremes until they are essentially a monster. It helps if their misunderstanding is simple enough for the players to feel as though they can redeem the villain; however the villain can't believe them because if what they say is true, then the villain truly is a monster and all they have done is for naught. Depending on how hard the party pushes conviction, this can lead to a suicidal and emotionally fuelled epic battle with the party where the villain makes subtle sub-optimal tactical decisions to ensure the villain's death by the hand of the party, allowing our villain to be able to forgive themself and in their last moments feel like the hero they had hoped they were becoming. I'm doing this for my first major arc for my campaign where the capital city of the continent we start on recently experienced a coup de tat and the new ruler is makingdecisions that will spell the ruin of the city. The first bit of the arc will be the group correcting the political structure of the city; however during this time a citizen of the nation on the opposite side of this small continent hears news of the potential collapse of the city and its international relationships. Desperate to save the nation he loves and the families he cherishes, he sacrifices his soul delving into the studies of necromancy to amass the knowledge and power needed to overthrow the current ruler and correct their mistakes. When the party finally confronts him, he will either be in the process of the lich ritual or have completed it. Unfortunately for the villain, he was so focused on doing what he could to save the city that he never heard news of the rightful ruler being put back in their place. All of those grave sites desecrated... All of those souls destroyed... All of those innocent Lothians sacrificed to "save" her fair city...

[@ExKiwi-yw8er]

I have the exact opposite problem honestly, which you touched on in the video. I make the villains Too sympathetic because in fiction they're usually my favorite characters. Gotta have more senseless murder monsters.

[@LifeEnemy]

I've been working on a villain - really started as an exercise in how to make a 'good'-ish villain - who's goal is to essentially 'fix' the world by ending all conflict among the mortal races. So far I've been playing with the idea of a typical big-magic-ritual thing, but rather than doing whatever X evil spell, it just forces certain behaviors into people to prevent violence. Or maybe just erase memories or something, it's a work in progress. I'm starting to think of some alternate ideas as I write. Anyway, I think it best fits into "revenge" maybe? Even though he didn't suffer excessively on a personal level, and his 'revenge' is focused on humanoid psychology. 🤷

[@marcopernechele5733]

The villain from Doctor Strange was also very interesting, he thought he was going to save the world bringing it to a new step in evolution, while exposing the hypocrisy of the monks order, until he was consumed by the void :) that's what I liked: he THOUGHT he was right (and by his knowledge, he was) but he didn't realize the consequences of his actions until it was too late.. he wasn't "evil" to the bone, he just lacked some really important info.. nihil quam vacuitas ordinatum est

[@ZerqTM]

I have a good motive I've been meaning to use... An alchemist Lord-ling quite competent and liked by the people but with a predilection to abduct young women so he can distill their wakefulness making them sleep for days just so he can remain awake as he is obsessed with the idea that sleep is a kind of training for death... a partial death everyone dies every day until it sticks.... So he is kind of a insomniac wakefulness vampire... the trick is all you really need to do is cast sleep on him to defeat him... and everyone will be quite happy since he was getting a bit freaky... the reason for his paranoia would be that his parents died early in their sleep which then later turn out to be due to a relative assassinating them.... That way you can have an enemy to turn into an ally,... (frankly i think ultimate evils are kind of boring... though i suppose they safe time on coming up with new villains) (also that villain concept is kinda based on myself... i can never feel happy about going to bed... i am never satisfied with a day... i want to get more shit done damn it!)

[@francislelievre5172]

films: insomnia, the machinist, hyperrealité, Top tier wakeful vampire: Dagoth Ur

[@derpherp1810]

My favorite villain had the love motivation behind him. The No Where King was once a modest lovable person but due to the bigotry towards centaurs he became insecure about being one when he fell in love with a human princess. His insecurities and love forced him to become something he wasn't and when she found out that it was an act she was heartbroken and the man she once loved was cut off from that. Once he couldn't be himself or be loved, the bitterness and sadness molded him into an eldritch horror that raised an army of hideous monsters to spread as much pain and misery whilst being locked in an eternal battle with his idealized self who was the one who received the love from this woman he loved.

[@yaviel571]

Thank you for the video, it was very useful! I tend to have multiple forces that may or may not end up as antagonistic depending on the players' choices. It allows me to create a world where no one is wholly good or evil. But most importantly, it makes the players feel that they have true impact and choice in how the story unfolds, what route to take. They'll think for themselves and what they feel would be best instead of just following a quest point. For example, if the players learn the justifications of the 'villain' they were first pursuing, then decide to work with them.. well, they're usually going to have their former allies against them. OR in some cases they might learn there is a third, larger power at work that is practically forcing the villain's hand, .. etc. Or perhaps they'll surprise me by digging deep and finding a compromise between all parties, or move a villain towards redemption! :p I enjoy putting players in situations where things aren't always as clear cut or black-and-white as they seem. A well-placed moral dilemma can really add spice to a story :D (I hope I make sense, English isn't my first language). But agreed, there always needs to be a 'backup' conflict or antagonistic force in case the players end up working with the villain.

[@AmnesiaDarkDecent13]

Thank you very much for this video. It really helped me to flesh out my villains a tad more.

[@alainchoiniere4194]

The best reference of Justification that I have is the end of the Watchmen movie. I still remember Rorschach screaming.. it was the heaviest Justification I ever seen.

[@TheLearthur]

This video helped me so, so much. Thank you, I was having quite a bit of trouble with this topic.

[@Alefiend]

Food for thought, as usual. Thanks.

[@nekoman8560]

Your view of love based plots is quite one dimensional. I can think of various “justifiable” villainous acts which stand in positions that offer multiple possible solutions. To name a few: What if the Villain is attacking a kingdom because they’ve wrongly imprisoned his/her beloved? What if the rulers of two kingdoms which both value power decide to attack each other as a display of strength to win each other’s affections, both unaware that the other is already interested? What if a mortal seeks to take the power from a god or become a god themselves so they can be together, and the god in question returns their feelings?

[@noodles24601]

Another possible love motivation could be for a supporting villain. Maybe they don't care much about building a glorious empire or stealing the sacred artifact or whatever, but a person they love does.

[@101jir]

13:35 Note: the "destroy their world" part may never be complete potentially depending on the character. In some cases if they ever find more to destroy they will.

[@rashkavar]

I have two different villains planned out for the campaign I've slowly been building up. (I'm doing a lot more planning than one might normally expect because I'm also building the world it takes place in.) One is a hobgoblin warlock (in a world where hobgoblins are not what they normally are, but that's beside the point) who believes his patron is the ghost of a a war god who was bound to the material plane and slain a few generations back, and seeks to resurrect this god. (His patron is really seeking a means to destroy the world, but at initial conditions, this warlock is a puppet, not a willing assistant.) He's the big bad if the players are looking for a relatively straightforward and simple experience. The other is an exiled politician. He's a sorcerer (not sure if I'm going draconic, wild magic or something else) in a land where arcane magic is outright forbidden, and further studied magic in order to better control his innate abilities. He was found out at some point, managed to escape, but his family was killed in the process. He's after vengeance, but he's smart enough that the players might actually wind up helping him stage a coup before they realize what he really wanted.

[@Kasino80]

Again, just listening for five minutes and my creativity is sparked. Kieran, the Death dealer, was exciled to another plane after he and his cabal of four other evil arch mages lost the war known as The Great Divide. He is now trying to come back.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

Great video, Guy!!! AND I can mostly agree with about everything you said... Regarding your "red eyes"... Um... I am (however) a life-long and chronic allergy sufferer, living in one of the capitals (of the U.S. at least) of such suffering. SO you might want to do a bit of research regarding molds, fungus, and spores of the local varieties... It's been my experience that "pollen" is often blamed for these kinds of things, somewhat wrongly. Fungus and particularly spores tend to be the more consistent source of the problem... It's also spring-time in the northern hemisphere, and at least around here, the spore count is RIDICULOUS, at the moment. Finally, don't freak out, but it's probably normal. You've recently moved a HUGE distance from your normal territory, and while travel has some dubious consequences in foreign exposures, a physical, long-term move is a new level of that risk. It often takes a "while" to present (symptoms) but most reasonably healthy people also get over it after sufficient bombardment of their immune system has been naturally recognized as "the new normal" and adjustments made. SO an over-the-counter type of allergy tablet might be all you need, but a reasonable "next step" would more likely be a "mold and spore check" around your place and neighborhood, in the case that you continue (or actually start symptomatically) suffering... That's because something as simple as a fungicide treatment, or hepa-filters and air-machines in one or two rooms might be all you need to return to the fullest of health. Chasing pollen, however, can be a very long term and fiscally draining prospect with few (if any) valuable returns... Just an FYI from a fellow allergic suffering mess of a human being. ;o)

[@DonaldSimsProduction]

Thank you. A lot to consider.

[@Fishcrab]

Thanks, doesnt need to kill half the universe. He could literally double the galaxy's size or whatever.

[@TheCyberSatyr]

The major plot twist for my current campaign is that the lich is actually an archich, trying to protect the world from a greater evil that would come from the stars

[@wizardvozk5874]

I was thinking of a villain concept. There is this small town called Vux, where they worship a joy-god named Sipholo. However, Sipholo grew to become displeased with with his life. He believed that he isn’t a god to these people, but a slave meant only to please them. Eventually he was captured by a wizard who planned to have him killed so the people would stop relying on a deity to gain happiness, but was stopped when he realized that the god wanted pretty much the same thing. So he took Sipholo in to get to know him. Sipholo eventually got to know the wizard’s daughter, who was a highly professional monk. He married and had a child they named Erlene. When she became of age she went out in the world to do her own thing. Sipholo wanted to do that too, but couldn’t because the residents of Vux relied on him. So he got monk training from his wife and eventually asked the wizard for a favor. The wizard cast a spell on the town causing it to be trapped inside a labyrinth. Sipholo’s plan is for a band of heroes to come around and defeat the evil monk of the maze (him), so that the curse will be lifted and there will be so much joy in the town that they will have no need for a joy-god and he can spend the rest of his days free.

[@Kingpin1880]

11:27 So... Khan needed a microwave? That line got me chuckling; I wasn't quite expecting Guy to say that.

[@ScarletRedCrimson]

What about villians who needs the heroes? Like if my villian needs to be slain to achive his goal but he refuses to just lie down and 'let' himself be destroyed? How does the players prevent that? The villain just have to shut up and bam...goal achieved...

[@michaeledmunds1767]

Can you say "Magical imprisonment"? :)

[@ShaOrna]

If they wanted villain Thanos they should have left him killing only to impress Death. The Thanos they went with is the monster seeking to make a better world, interesting but not necessarily evil.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

The politically correct sub-cultural bleed into the Comic based entertainment industry really is disappointing. Thanos may have been a despicable son of a bitch, but he had a very simple motivation... He didn't need anything more. Now, they're so worried about "being relatable" in every facet, they've basically destroyed what used to be great about comics. AND trust me, that was never overly sophisticated... EVER. AND no, it's not interesting, because it's TOO flawed AND shortsighted. Sure, in the shorter term, wiping out half of all life will un-do the over-population problem. BUT that only "kicks the can" figuratively down the road until someone else has to do it AGAIN... Where the realistic and valuable point of promoting RESPONSIBILITY in population controls would actually reach a point of resolve (however dubious)... It wasn't broken before, but they just HAD to fix it. ;o)

[@andresarancio6696]

On the topic of Revenge: There is also the villain that wants to destroy something abstract. Take people like Stain from My Hero Academia, or Kylo Ren from the new Star Wars trilogy. Stain has a grudge not against a specific person, but the concept of "fake" heroism, commercialized, cold and calculated heroism that takes away the "pure" and saintly, save everyone heroism. Kylo Ren wants to destroy both the Jedi and the Sith orders out of a personal hate of his towards the conflict of light and dark. For less justifiable cases we could look for Lord Foul from that book series I forget the name of, Melkor from the Silmarillion, Lucifer from Paradise Lost (the satanic archetype has this in spades apparently), all of them don't want power or status as a final goal, but just want to get back at the divine authorities that defeated them previously. However, as more often than not said authorities are less individual people, and more the general idea of "good" or "order", their plans gravitate towards destroying those abstract concepts. On the topic of Justification: I personally find this the best type of want for long term campaigns, but a solution I've managed to design to avoid the whole "players side with the villian" is simply having multiple opposing sides at play. Players would side with whoever they think their ideals align the best, and the campaign would change superficially accordingly.

[@silentshadow1292]

Mixing and matching is great. Currently the my PCs only see the mastermind motivation as revenge. This is because they disrupted a small plot by stealing his identity. The first arc is about the mastermind's desire for very personal revenge along with how the PCs have caused more issues with the bigger picture plan they cant see. In arc 2 and 3 PCs will start to see the Justification desire and the big picture. This will reach a high point towards end of arc 3 when mastermind has learned to grow and puts aside revenge and makes a genuine offer for PCs to join. If PCs join, there is a held back group with a vested interest in seeing mastetmind fail. They will become the PCs and mastermind nemesis by taking an active role if their plan to get PCs to deal with mastermind fail.

[@clinthazzard7397]

Looks like pollen is the prevailing villain today.

[@Cloud_Seeker]

I have a plot I been working on. If anyone got any advice I sure will like it. So in my idea there was a ancient dragon war. The evil dragons wanted to take over the world as they saw it as theirs, the good dragons wanted the lesser species to live as well as they see it as not only theirs. The evil dragons was defeated and most of the dragons on both sides got killed. However a human mage that fought for the evil dragons didn't accept this defeat, and with the help of a surviving evil dragon he became a lich to find a way to restore all the evil dragons back to life so they can take what is theirs. He eventually figured out that if he can simply use magic that he created he can turn back time for the dragons and simply bring them to his time before they actually die. That means they got no real enemies to fight and they get their wish, just a lot later then before but who cares about that. The players start at level 20, just when they have been holding a siege on the enemy castle where the ritual is being preformed. The players have uncovered the plot (not reviled to the players) they killed all the henchmen the lich had and gathered all allies such as Gold dragons, nations armies, powerful mages and more. The players assault the enemy in a one of a kind airship while the main forces push the front gate, and they make their way to the lich. Once they fight the lich the ritual is almost done and the lich will try to eliminate the players or just stall for time. However the magic doesn't work as intended and goes wrong. It sends the players and the lich (the players doesn't know this) back in time as the magic tried to pull people from back in time (it worked in reverse yet didn't). The players will have everything about them ripped to shreds by the magic and they will all be thrown out at some point in the past before all happened and where everything they have done simply haven't happened yet and all henchmens are alive. The lich is in a coma for a while as he is kind of special with his phylactery, as he is so old and magically powerful he doesn't lose everything about him. When the players arrive in the past they will be at level 1 as if they just started, but only with peasant clothing (or naked depending on age group and players, I will prefer naked but since I am working with 13 year olds ....... they have parents) and they have to work themselves up from there. They did not know what they did before they started playing, and the lich doesn't know anyone else but him got sent back into time. Now the game is a free for all. The past didn't matter, it never happened. The lich will take some time to wake up from his coma, so the players will get some power. The lich henchmens will do what they are supposed to do while the lich is in a coma. When the lich wake up he will study why he was wrong until he figure out that the players are there getting powerful, but he might still underestimate them. One of the lich henchmen is a Rakshasa that is a powerful offical in the main city the players hang around. He is there to cause chaos in the land so people do not care what the lich does by sending out fiends in the land or provoking war with other nations though manipulation. Why are the Fire Giants attacking the neighboring nation? Because the nation the players have a pact with them, or so they think at least. Why are there fiends running around in the players nation? Because the neighboring nation is making pacts with fiends to terrorize the nation, or so they think at least. The Rakshasa does this because he wants the evil dragons to kill as many as possible to make his master in the nine hells stronger. This Rakshasa will be a "asset" to the players from early on, granting them a old village outside of the city that have been overrun by fiends years ago for them to establish a guild or whatever in. If they can remove the fiends ofc. I am also thinking about having a Dracolich as a henchman later in the campaign as the dragon that helped the lich to become a lich. As it was to weak to continue on living it became a lich itself in order to help the lich in achieving its goals, and to make sure the lich stays loyal to the cause after like 2000 years after the dragon war or something. When the lich does the ritual the next time it will not fail. This is what I have planned out so far. It is a long running campaign where you can make up a lot of things and basically do whatever you want since the goal is long term. You can make the study for the ritual take as much time as you want and the game is made for milestone leveling then XP leveling.

[@adambooth7755]

With all these motivations, what truly makes them a villain isn't the cause, it's the methods for achieving it. But having your villain have a particularly vile method for achieving their goal is no more important than with Justification (followed by Love). With most categories, you can get players/viewers/readers/etc. to buy in that a guy is the villain by simply stating "He wants more power" or "He wants all of the money". Stating "He is the villain because he wants to be loved" isn't sufficient to make a character the villain nor- to continue the Magneto example- is "He wants to stop frightened bigoted humans for exterminating mutants". Rather, "He wants to stop frightened bigoted humans for exterminating mutants by forcibly alerting people's genetic codes, possibility killing them even those humasn who are sympathetic to mutants, just because they're human". Is a villainous goal.

[@DieBlah]

I'm going with Revenge as the Nemesis' main motive with a side of Status/Power. He is a high ranking noble in a kingdom that was long at war with a neighboring Kingdom. His family line was all but wiped out during the war and the ruling family negotiated a truce with his now hated enemies, ending hostilities. The Noble lad grows up and begins using the wealth left to him by his deceased parents/older siblings to pay lesser Villains to track down and unearth ancient weapons of massive destructive capability as well as attempting to locate the last known person (An NPC who hangs out with the players) who has the knowledge to unlock the weapons destructive power. His major plan? Use his vast network of villains who have infiltrated the kingdom's Government to use the weapon on the neighboring Kingdom to decimate them for the death of his family all while pinning it on the current rulers of the Kingdom so that he may use the political power he has accrued (Bought mostly) to seat himself as the replacement. I'm sure my players will decide to go sight seeing in the Feywild or something instead, though.

[@rendalconstantineau1680]

The thing with a villain who is "justified", just because someone has what seems like a good thing on the surface, is it subjectively good or objectively good? Is the villain correct in their belief? (ie: Thanos, is he right in his belief, or is he the only one that thinks this? Is his math correct? That does make a difference after all). Maybe sometimes the villain should actually just sit down and make their case, maybe people will think they are right if they show them what they've seen. Maybe not. Could make some interesting ideas though I think.

[@Bluefoot65]

How do you as GM track what the villains and other groups are doing to keep the game from becoming static, what are the monsters doing. how are the NPC reacting to what the players did or failed to do

[@vanhovemare]

it's not your eyes, but the eerie reflections on your glasses :-)

[@TheZombifiedGuy]

At the risk of being the "WELL AKSHUALLY" person, Rome very much did want and NEED North Africa and Egypt. They considered Britain and Germania relatively unimportant by comparison. Both provided a wealth of resources, particularly food (the Nile is really, really fertile), as well as trading hubs to allow access to goods from Arabia, India, and other places. Nothing exemplifies this importance better than the city of Carthage itself, which, despite being Rome's primary rival for many years, would be rebuilt after the Punic Wars and ultimately become one of the largest and wealthiest cities in the empire.

[@tagabundok1]

[Spoilers, Infinity War] I always felt Thanos was ultimately shortsighted. If he can bend space, time, reality etc. To the extent that he can wipe out half the population of the universe in a snap, why couldn't he expand the resources of said universe so that it would never need be culled. Ultimately Thanos was an evil dick who loved no one more than his own hubris.

[@matteussilvestre8583]

"The Mad Titan" indeed.

[@vilkarmooringstead5346]

Thanos has a defeatist philosophy. He literally has the power to rewrite reality, but spends his time brawling with random heroes

[@vilkarmooringstead5346]

Khaeldranis He did used to kill planets to give death as presents. But he still has always defeated himself, rather than an outside force.

[@BlueFenix01]

Was his use of ultimate power shortsighted, somewhat yes. Is producing more resources for everyone in the universe the solution. Not really. The idea that a population can sustain itself on its food production, farmer or growing nutrients elsewhere has an upper limit. For the space needed for that production, the yields that come out of that production and the population size that demands it are a mixed bag that as some stage there isn't enough to go around for the amount of people wanting to eat without territorial expansion which really just encourages higher population cause we now have more space to produce more food. Culling of the herd to ensure the herds survival in a harsh environment is another thing hunters and farmers have done for hundreds of years.

[@Aschvampir]

+Blue Fenix The problem you line out also applies to Thanos' way as well. As you said, hunters are culling the herd for hundreds of years and they will continue to do so, since they have to do it year after year after year..... Decreasing the fertility rate while increasing the size of the universe is much better, the population spreads much more slowly and then you (as an omnipotent being) can sporadically appear and force the people to procreate less or start a war or whatever.

[@Faint366]

I think the main point of justification is to understand why they would do something, but still realizing that they’re choosing the wrong solution. Thanos didn’t have to kill half the universe. There are other solutions to a population crisis. Justification is mainly about describing the logic of the villain in a way that makes some sense, but has one fatal flaw that still keeps them firmly in the villain category

[@coffeebeenzz]

I'm just starting off as a GM and I'm curious about ways to enforce things on your players as I dislike taking control of their characters. Like in your magic items video, you mentioned a sword that could not be put down. Or say if one drank a potion that every half hour made him do something. So how would the best ways to get these actions to happen. I can explain that the award stick to his hand I guess. But in the potion example, how would I do that? Or like the one wring? How can I make it manipulate the player?

[@charlesfolk7383]

Their is also chaos. It is a 7th type of want. Either they are militantly wiping out chaos, or they are spreading chaos for chaos sake.

[@suspicaxrohde2310]

To be honest, I quite like Thanos as a villain. If you can't see where a villain is coming from such that they made those decisions, then the villain can come across as one dimensional. A villain that fights for the solution that they believe in can be very effective. However, people who think Thanos is right baffle me to no end. Really? The way to solve the universe's problems is to divide the population by two? How would that possibly help? If resources are an issue and you have infinite cosmic power, just MAKE MORE RESOURCES! "Oh, but that won't last forever" you might say. Well, yeah, but population growth is a thing. Thanos would still need to cull half the population every once in a while. Also, pure numbers don't matter at all. If you kill half the population, the remaining half will still fight over those resources. You'll still have wealth disparity. You'll still have war. You'll still have corrupt governments. Nothing really changes except the order of magnitude.

[@galahadwolf5818]

Right? Also, if the number of beings he erased was not even, would someone be split in smaller pieces? (the last question is a joke) I any case, I disagree that Thanos is an interesting character altogether, in the movie. Not that I like him in the comics, either, but at least there his motivation is actually more believable and less flawed(from a sociopathic perspective, that is). Guy can literally bend reality with a fingersnap and can't seem to give himself the ability to find better logic :v

[@lowercase_the]

In the comics he’s much more evil and obsessed with death, so I think the Russo bros intentionally made his goal flawed so the audience wouldn’t wholeheartedly side with the villain

[@FableBeardCo]

Another great video and well received tips, my lord

[@vinx.909]

I have a villain that wants power (by sommoning demons under his control) one that wants revenge (on about half the party) and a villain/ally (it's complicated) that wants status(that of a god).

[@alexandercross9081]

If you have read/watched Overlord, Princess Renner is a good example of a villain motivated by love

[@SavicPanylyk]

Hey Guy. Thank you for another fantastic video! I'd love to get your thoughts and tips on how to build a dark fantasy world. If you could throw in some ideas on cosmic horror elements as well it would be greatly appreciated.

[@danielmcdonald6861]

I have 2 main villains in my current campaign. A Witchknife that wants revenge on the main races of Khorvaire for slaughtering her family and people, she is also looking to force the main races to accept others and stop prejudice against her race, as well as those that are tired of being abused and treated as less then trash. (Majority of my players joined her and are trying to change her attitude from killing all who disagree with her) The second villain is a Mindflayer with demonic blood (Half fiend template) that wants to merge the planes, while destroying others that he does not care for and become the new god of the "whats left" plane.

[@paintnate222]

Great video. Keep it up!

[@HunterHerne]

Hmmm. I think I put too many of these together in my last villain. He was a rich guy, who wanted revenge on reality for the injustice delivered upon his sister, and needed to seek knowledge and power to complete several steps in the process of awakening the god who dreams reality into existence. And his second-in-command, and most faithful follower was in love with him/his drive and motivation

[@windwakin]

When I heard spoiler alert for infinity war, I don't think I've ever yanked my headphones off faster

[@matteussilvestre8583]

Drax develops a crush on Thor.

[@n0dr0gs49]

Matteus Silvestre Drax's following StarLord's advice on a "mating dance" for Thor - funniest scene in a hilarious movie.

[@Loromir17]

The villain wants his fries perfectly balanced...

[@erik95056]

Ravensburger He invades Europe to have it with mayo...

[@Hauptseite]

Superman dies and Batman uses his Bat-Healing Spray to revive him.

[@Eddrian32]

The problem with infinity war is that Thanos doesn't actually want to save the universe, he's throwing a temper tantrum because he proposed genocide in response to overpopulation and his home planet told him to fuck off, plus wiping out half of all life wouldn't solve anything because eventually you'd just have to do it again. He should be encouraging adoption and environmental sustainability.

[@seanrea550]

A viable justification plot could be one where the antagonist does not understand what they are doing will do or that they do but the out come suits them and they do not care about what it will do to others.