Hoyoverse is Making a HUGE Mistake

Been a while since I've done a more general discussion video. Imaginarium Theater drops in two days, and ZZZ three days after that, so I figured now is as good of a time as any because the direction Hoyoverse seems to be taking with Genshin Impact, Honkai Star Rail, Zenless Zone Zero, and rumored future projects does not bode well for players.

[@stephenlittle332]

I'm convinced the reason Genshin never gave players the things they wanted, was never generous, didn't bother with creative end-game systems, was purely to keep the bar low. They looked around at their competitors and their expertise and estimated a time-frame where they would have monopoly, used that time to focus on planning for the next games while being careful not to put the bar too high for Genshin, this way when the competition came, they would meet/pass the bar that had been set, and wouldn't have access to all the lessons hoyo had learned but never utilized, then, hoyo could put out their next IP raising the bar higher, and playing the cards they had kept hidden. I think Star Rail was necessary as a net to pick up the players dropping off from genshin, giving them what they wanted, keeping them spending, and not letting Hoyo's name get too trashed.

[@Souldapop]

I'm with you. I have a strong suspicion that they made all the features two years ago and have just been sitting on them until something big happens that draws players away

[@Oliveira_HS]

ok, I watched the video twice, but I think I still didn't understand what exactly you're criticizing/complaining.. -abyss line up?? well, ofc they'll change it to match the new character being released.. idk if it was different before I started playing genshin, but since then (3.4) it's pretty much what happens.. they will try to bump up business.. -time to play?? besides genshin, I play hsr, hi3rd, muse dash, hitman 3, palworld and some other minor/indie games.. working from 9-5 I have a limited time to play, but most of them are 100%'d.. the only thing left in genshin is lynette's hangout bc I always forget about it, and in hsr is the coop part of the bird event, bc I hate coop.. other than that, in both games, missions, maps, quests, etc. are all 100%.. -being forced to do xyz?? neither genshin nor hsr force you to play abyss, the future theater or simulated universe.. you can choose if you want to play it or not.. I only play abyss until 11-3, as I don't have the patience required to play floor 12 nor do I think it's worthy bc the bosses don't drop their materials.. with welkin + dailies (which I complete in under 10 minutes with a half-assed team just to get the friendship points for them) I get 150 primos per day.. so, 200 primos from the last floor will not make a difference..and in hsr, I only started doing simulated universe very late in game.. also, if you're reaching a point where you don't have fun anymore playing xyz game, it's a burnout sign, so I recommend you to quit it for a while.. I did it with overwatch 2 as it became a dumpster fire, and I haven't played for more than a year.. and even with the amount of complaint ppl have towards hoyo's monetization, it's way way way better than what blizzard is doing with ow2 (except hi3rd, their monetization is daylight robbery, that's why I never spent there).. but the amount of money I spend in genshin with welkin and bp throughout the year would be a monthly payment if I wanted the skins in ow2.. so, I'm pretty comfy with my spending, my savings and the chars I'm getting.. didn't spend a cent for my nahida c2r1, spent a little with my furina c0r1, but I'm happy with both.. as for wuwa, I watched some streamers playing it, but the game didn't catch my attention, so I didn't try it nor will I try it.. but I definitely will try zzz.. worst case scenario, it'll become a second hi3rd, where I log in just to get my daily stuff, and play some missions from time to time bc hot waifus..

[@Souldapop]

This abyss isn't designed around the current characters. Clorinde is good on first half, but that's the easy side. Side two is the problem. Neither Furina or Siegewinne have enough hydro to deal with the lectors on their own and leave enough time for the remaining enemies It's incredible that you somehow manage to make the time for that, but Don you think you may be the exception, not the rule? Forced to play: that wasn't my argument. It's that the games are moving in a direction where, if you want to *participate* in that content, you'll have to spend. Burnout: that's not what this is. I still enjoy Genshin and WuWa, but I'm being pulled in different directions. If I take the time to do what I want in one game, it's less time I have to give to the other game. Lastly, if that's what you want out of a game, ZZZ is for you. I primarily want something I can play and gives me things to do, which plays into the problem I was just talking about. It's decision fatigue. Choosing one over the others causes people to doubt their choice and wish they had chosen differently. Not choosing at all makes it to where none of the options feel rewarding to engage in. Hipe that clears up any confusion

[@yoiko89]

​​@@Souldapop the new spiral abyss kinda work in Clorinde with Nahida + Quickenbloom and 2nd phases is MonoHydro (Furina, Sigewinne, Neuvillette and Kazuha) or (Furina, Kokomi,Yelan and Kazuha). I also try WuWa currently the game fix some Shuttering and Bad optimization but still have some minor problem like the not fixed camera angle it move around the screen just touching it once and the story still locking.

[@drathanos]

Personally, I thought this one was still fairly easy, but was certainly the hardest for the version 4.x abyss cycles. I kept hearing about how hard it was, but then went straight through it without having to reset once. The one I thought was the most aggravating and difficult was the one near the end of the 3.x abyss cycle with the cryo and hydro abyss heralds in the 2nd half of the floor 12 - chamber 1 with their constant freezing and hard hits that had the potential to practically one shot you. I kept resetting over and over, trying different teams to find something that worked. I believe it also had the Iniquitous baptist in 2nd half of chamber 3, so whatever team I had to get through the first chamber, I had to use for the baptist as well (I refuse to go partway through with one team and reset to finish with a different team). Good video, btw. You're absolutely right about when there are too many choices, it makes people want to do less due to overload. I don't know what Hoyo is expecting. There's only so much time people can devote to playing games. They already have 3 big ones, HI3, GI, and HSR, and they want to add ZZZ on top of it. At the very least, they're cannibalizing their own games. I already feel overloaded trying to complete stuff for both HI3 and GI. I didn't have the time to devote or inclination to delve into another game nor did I want another gacha that would try to make me spend more money.

[@Souldapop]

Thanks! Been a little bizarre to see the responses so far, so it feels good to see someone who acknowledges the point of the video

[@sekirothegreatshinobi2332]

I gave up on Genshin when 4.5 started and cleared that Potion Event just for sake of getting the Rewards. Then I started play HSR the next Day, and it's so much fun to play. Plus, Auto Battle makes farming so much easier. I already got most Areas' Chests and Puzzles incl. Penacony's. But, since i'm a new Player I have to make my Account stronger. Because, atm I can't do the other Endgame Content aside Sim Universe, which is why I made a List of Characters I want to pull for. And so far I got the Majority of 4 Stars, (free) Dr. Ratio, Loucha, Aventurine, Firefly, Ruan Mei, Himeko (lost the 50-50 to on Jingliu's Banner) Yanqing (Beginner Banner) and Bailu ( Standard Banner). However, after I got Aventurine with my Guarantee I was running low on Stellar Jades so I bought the Express Pass 2 times so far. This time I'll buy it only if I run low on Pulls, plus it gives the Dev Team some Support, which they deserve more than Cai Haoyu from Genshin. The Characters I want to pull for are Huohuo, Sparkle, Black Swan, Jiaoqiu, Kafka, Acheron, Jingliu, Dan Heng IL and Boothill. In Case if I can't save up enough for the next Unit or lose the 50-50 I'll save it up for the next. I'll also make sure to get the Supports first before going for the Hypercarries. Which worked well when I pulled for Ruan Mei and Firefly. Now, i'm saving up for Jiaoqiu, since he's most likely Acheron's best Support. Besides playing HSR i'm waiting for Wuthering Waves to come on PS5, too. Because, it looks so damn fun for a Devil May Cry Fan like me. And aside HSR i'm playing other Games, mainly. Like, atm i'm on Guardians of the Galaxy. It also depends what I still got to do in HSR, like Side-Quests and Companion-Missions, for which I'll take my time instead of burning through them all at once.

[@maddasher8471]

4.x really spoiled players they forget abyss used to be both dps check and element app check now that hard abyss is back people are loosing their minds.

[@Souldapop]

3.x was the same. It started off really easy and progressively got harder toward the end of Sumeru - but their elemental checks were always easily met by a wide variety of teams. Honestly, if there was only one lector, I don't think anyone would bat an eye at this abyss because a single target hydro check can be covered by a lot more easily accessible characters

[@sauravthegreat]

​@@SouldapopSumeru started getting hard at 3.3 itself tho.For fontaine it took till 4.6/4.7

[@jorgevelasquez62]

Cheverouse team with nahida ? I mean if is c6 cheverouse yeah but otherwise is ........ Yeah

[@Souldapop]

Is c6, but also, you still get her atk buff, even without c6. The only thing you're locking yourself out of in a team like this, or in an overvape team, is res shred. Since she's replacing bennett in these teams, you weren't getting res shred to begin with

[@lancertheimaginary8462]

abyss isn't really difficult as the enemies don't have complex moves that you need to dodge and learn their attack patterns rather enemies just get tankier and more annoying like flying in the air or diving underground for several seconds. it's more annoying than difficult.

[@Souldapop]

When was the last time you did abyss? Because 4.0 has consistently thrown enemies that are insanely aggressive and can one tap you

[@lancertheimaginary8462]

@@Souldapop tbh I have quit genshin 6 months ago and that's what I remember about abyss. might download again to try this new abyss but idk if it's even worth my time if I'm gonna uninstall again after trying it.

[@Souldapop]

@lancertheimaginary8462 3.0 was all about that, but 4.0 has tried a lot harder to kill you. Ironically enough, that's made it easier for the most part. Bosses like Coppelia, Copellius, and Tulpa can easily one shot you, but they have less HP (except for Tulpa, but it has a hydro infusion, so it always gets vaped, so it's essentially like it has 50% less HP. The ordinary enemies can all wombo combo you and make it impossible to do anything if you don't learn their mechanics

[@yoiko89]

Every enemy in abyss currently can one shot the character.

[@backpackpepelon3867]

Its all about investment in genshin, not skills. Most enemies just stood still pants down and barely trying to hit you. It become problems now due to these mobs coming in waves and quite separated apart. Players now had to move around instead of setting skills and burst in 1 place while repeating the same rotation all the time. Maybe venti stock with rise again, who knows.

[@Drejkol]

I still can't believe that after over year, there are still people that wants the "Skip" button in Honkai Game. The super heavy, story driven, JRPG. If you don't want to play the game then just don't play the game - simple. There's Genshin, Wuwa, Hi3rd, PGR, HSR, ZZZ around the corner, FGO, Dokkan, etc. tens of mmo's, and you don't have to play them all. If you don't enjoying something, then just stop doing it.

[@Souldapop]

I wanted Firefly and Robin, so I had to do events and sidequests that I didn't want to do. Couldn't get then if I didn't. Would have really liked it for those. Would have made grinding a lot faster. I primarily have HSR installed for the main story, which I don't skip. Do you think I'd want to skip the thing I installed the game to do? That makes no sense

[@LuckyUnlucky2]

People are allowed to not like 1 aspect of a game and still enjoy the rest, you might consider the game's story to be the main point, but someone else might not. Plus, what does adding a skip button do to you? Is it going to physically harm you, or are you going to get sad every time you see it and think that somewhere, someone doesn't want to use their time on something they don't enjoy and decides to skip it?

[@Blackoutdmc]

There are a couple factors that you don't seem to comprehend here. So let me help you out: 1. Most of Genshin Impact's story telling, save for the archon quest and a couple story quest, frankly *suck.* Of course, that is a matter of taste, and opinion. But there is a *LOT* of long, boring, unvoiced, uninteresting, and uninportant dialogue that fill up this games word count. 2. While story based gameplay is A factor of these games, it is not the only factor that matters. Actual gameplay is a core element in these games. Thats why we have a combat system, with a fleshed out element system, spiral abyss, and a new incoming gamemode. It's also about collecting all your favorite characters, which is why we have over 80 options to save, spend, and pull for. It's also about exploration, which is why we have large expansive regions and subregions, and chests as far as the eye can see. Theres also the music. Trying to gatekeep players just because they don't like a certain aspect of the game is simply childish. You can't expect millions of players to be playing the games for the same reasons you do. 3. It doesn't hurt you in the slightest. Having the *option* to skip over this content does not hurt you at ALL. You, yes YOU specifically as an individual, lose *nothing* from having that feature available, because you alone have the choice on whether or not you wish to use it. 4. These story quests can be absurdly long. Aranara quest totaled over 6 hours if im not mistaken. Character story quests can take 2-3 hours to complete. Don't even get me started on Soroush's questline. Whats worse, is some of these quests block out certain parts of the map, and other area's like weekly boss domains. In fact, the best update Genshin has had, is the ability to bypass world quests to fight weekly bosses! 🙏 Problem is, people like you think, "Well I don't want it. So no one else should have it!" Utterly childish. Self centered. Narcissistic even.

[@dandreanthony5020]

@@Blackoutdmcreal they’re just unable to see anything out of their peripheral. And it’s really in a immature way. Someone once said I hope they never add a skip button it’s so counterproductive. But these players that spew this are 100% casual. They don’t know the true essence of why daily’s play nonstop. It’s literally for the characters. I first played Genshin then intermittently stop in like 1.3. Because it wasn’t enough. It wasn’t until I realize the highlight of the games is soley in the characters and getting them. Couldn’t care less for the story

[@dandreanthony5020]

@@Blackoutdmcalso the thought of don’t play it at all. Does nothing and is a tactic to oppress people because you’re minimizing their voice. And what if I don’t stop then what?

[@Geminosity]

I quit genshin for a few specific reasons: a) I didn't join an open world game to spend time in instanced rooms with an arbitrary failure timer. I basically pretended Abyss didn't exist but they'd still push that shit in events and I have no patience for it. b) A large portion of good combat for me is about the complexity of the enemy. I'd gotten to the point in Genshin where I didn't even know what I was killing, let along what it could do because my rotations were so OP. Keep in mind of course I played for 4 years while pretending abyss didn't exist so this is just story and world stuff: it doesn't matter how hard the other stuff is because i would never play it and considered it a waste of dev time. c) Not only didn't I feel like I really needed most of the new characters, but I was getting to the point where I couldn't be bothered reading the small collection of encyclopedias that came with each new one. When they put Labyrinth warriors in the game I was excited because it was a potentially repeatable piece of content that had an emphasis on exploration and was mostly devoid of timers. I wanted more stuff like that, but instead it was a one off and most events from there on were mario-party minigames or 'combat in a sealed arena with a timer' over and over and over and over again. I don't care what giant slab of text rules and gimmicks you put in a timed arena, it's still a timed arena and it's anathema to the appeals of an open world. Should've left that shit in Honkai 3rd where they're at least honest from the get go that you're going to be doing that from the start. Now i'm playing WuWa while pretending 'Tower of Adversity' doesn't exist... but hey, at least they have illusive realm, which is INFINITELY more in line with the kind of repeatable kind of content I want from these games.

[@Souldapop]

The new game mode is kind of in line with illusive realm, and the local legends can give you a run for your money in overworld, but yeah, most enemies are pushovers in overworld. I think that's unavoidable in ARPGs. You get to a point in Diablo where you're just doing greater rifts and ubers, you get to a point in souls-likes where you're just doing boss rushes because you can sneeze on everything else and obliterate them. The entire point of the game is, more often than not, to get to that level over and over again with different characters. If that gameplay loop doesn't connect with a player, it's probably going to fall flat with them

[@Geminosity]

@@Souldapop I'm not so sure about the new game mode being in line with illusive. It looks more like another 'fight things in instanced rooms with a timer' but with extra steps. I suppose I should clarify that when I say I want exploration, I mean running from room to room as my characters and sometimes encountering zany stuff that isn't always combat (though plenty of combat is fine too) Having some UI screens tell me that things happened is no substitute for that (hence my disappointment with what I saw from ZZZ) I enjoyed playing Phantasy Star Online for years as mostly the same character and all I was doing in that at the end was running from forest to ruins on ultimate and seeing if I found any new rares. Even in my powered up top level form it was dangerous as even the tankiest character would die in 3 to 4 hits and I was playing the most fragile of the classes: FOnewearl so instant death was always looming :3

[@Souldapop]

@Geminosity I get that. To me, I don't see much of a difference between running to the next fight to get a popup of changes and just getting the popup. I guess that just comes down to preference

[@Geminosity]

@@Souldapop Oh, I don't want the pop up at all XD i'm thinking instead of 'oh noes you get debuff' popups I prefer the 'reality' of things happening in the game itself. E.g. in Labyrinth Warriors there was a room with a chest in the middle of it. I looked at the sides to make sure there was no dart/fireball traps and didn't see any enemies which struck me as suspicious. When I went to open the chest, the ceiling fell on me and I took damage. This was surprising and amusing and, most importantly, avoidable. As I later learned from being paranoid about it happening again is that ceiling traps were visible if you just looked up and could be triggered safely by running in and out of their 'trigger' area if you knew they were there. To me that's a huge different from just being told stuff in text :D If the game needs to pop up to tell me stuff I think that's a failure in their design... it should be stuff I can intuit myself just by playing :o

[@dandreanthony5020]

A wonderful surmise

[@yoiko89]

I'm F2P (From October 5, 2020) I still didn't spend in this game. Well apparently i still beat the spiral abyss 12 even my I'm using my F2P account. I saw this gonna happen that's why i always pick new character from new region than getting rerun (I have all Fatui Harbinger, All Archon and mostly the character in Fontaine). I was thinking to soon i should spend if Imaginarium Theater become more not casual to play (Having Element restrictions). Sumeru Spiral abyss more harder than the current one (Consecrated Beasts so aggressive)

[@Souldapop]

I personally can't recommend spending until hoyo shapes up and shows they care about consumer satisfaction Even the most exploitative companies know if their consumers aren't happy, their business suffers. It doesn't breed a lot of confidence that they don't seem to get that

[@raihanrusli2720]

There is a video by Golden Owl about why genshin and other games wont let us skip cutscene. I am not saying they shouldnt add skip button, but at least you can understand the probable reason on why. But tbh even hoyo is inconsistent with this. Why they add skip button in HI3 and ZZZ but not in genshin and hsr ? Even tho I am not story skipper and I enjoy read most of the time, I just want people to stop complaining about this

[@Souldapop]

I didn't give a damn about the skip button UNTIL I played HSR because the lack of it forced me to spend more time on things I didn't want to do

[@yoiko89]

Maybe adding skip button its mean story was half Baked similar to some other games.

[@Error403HRD]

I haven't had the time to attempt this newest abyss but with all I'm hearing about it... i'm probably not going to clear. The highest I've gotten, EVER, was 3 stars on floor 12, but usually on floor 12 I end up timing out and failing to clear lol. I am hopeful that Imaginarium Theater is less of an annoying dps check, so hopefully it'll actually be fun for me. As for the actual topic of the video, yeah. Hoyo needs to stop throwing everything and the kitchen sink at us instead of actually improving the quality of their games.

[@Souldapop]

Tbh, floor 11 has been kind of a pain, too. This floor 11, in particular, is harder than some 12s we've had in 4.0

[@Error403HRD]

@@Souldapop well that's gonna suck. I guess I'm only getting a couple primos from this one.

[@yoiko89]

It's not DPS check anymore you really have limited character able to use since have element restrictions. To be honest the new endgame look like roguelike you need to use 2 character each floor.

[@Cytryz]

Was spiral abyss that hard? I only had to change my team because I screwed up and forgot if you don’t pick an electro vs the pyramid boss then you get screwed since you can’t un invis him and depending on your char are forced to auto attack towards his dumb constructs. Other than that i cleared it with the same teams i’ve been using. I thought it was way easier this time because they didn’t have the stupid lecters, especially the one with triple attributes in combination with his really short windows you can dps him down and how awkward his shield types were being Ice, Electro, and Fire. HSR I just started this week so I have no comment on other than I’m enjoying the hell out of it but I’m obviously too new to know since im only T26

[@Souldapop]

There are two lectors in 12 1 after 7 waves of enemies with an enemy after? The main issue is that chamber. If you don't have certain characters, it can be really tough to get three stars

[@Cytryz]

@@Souldapop it’s one set. They are just pyro lecters vs needing to deal with 2 electros (arguably the worst kind of the regular ones) and 1 super lecter which force an incredibly awkward team comp simply because it having specifically ICE, pyro, and electro shielding. Where as if it had hydro shield then that’d be different since it’s electro x dendro as the counter, not pyro, hydro, dendro as the counter. And the abyss mage has a fire shield too so you already can bring the typing to deal with the future enemy, the seahorese since you only need two types to clear fast being dendro and hydro which make sense team comp wise. Everyone is given a dendro char. The only thing is that the concecrated beasts do a lot of dmg so you have to either block it or dodge it. Dunno if they are freezeable, i’ve never had the chars to run a freeze comp. Edit, oh and the fatui is also a pyro shielder so again one just needs a hydro char, so you were locked into a very easy to build team on 2nd. With side 1 only requiring electro to de invis the character or a bow character like Lyney, Tighnari, Ganyu or really anyone that doesn’t care if they are invis like clorinde, nuev, beidou, xiangling, ayato, Noelle, and Nilou’s team.

[@Souldapop]

@Cytryz I used freeze in the video, and electro shields are the easiest to deal with because we all have a free dendro traveler, wym? Two pyro lectors needs aoe hydro, and that's something exclusive to limited 5 stars that aren't even on banner right now and c6 Candace - which a lot of players don't have and less have built. Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you're missing the point. I didn't have trouble this abyss, either. It was easy for ME, but if I didn't have certain characters, I wouldn't be able to clear. That means other players that don't have those charcters are SoL this abyss, and even players that do are locked out of playing characters they want. That makes it prohibitive. The "difficulty" isn't a skill or dps issue, it's overcoming the barrier to entry

[@Cytryz]

@@Souldapop i don’t watch abyss footage. It’s boring, i’ve seen teh abyss 100s maybe 1000s of times.i’ve played it since launch. It’s the same thing visually every time, many CCs put it in their videos ad nauseam which only furthers my lack of care to watch. I just listened to your video in the BG. That’s not a slight against you, just the reality of how and probably others feel. Maybe if there was more novel footage such as ZZZ footage or a mixture of the 3 games or even just nice scenery less often ventured in 4.0 I would have been inclined to actually watch with my eye balls. The previous abyss were more restrictive, required more elements and presented more problems and allowed less team diversity and higher investment from more types of units. I never mean “hard” as in skill. I mean hard as in hard stat requirements be it DPS and/or element. There are variety of solid options for players to choose from in Hydro and a number were recently ran to give you the chars for this, at the beginning of 4.0 and all throughout genshin. Whether its neuv, furina, kokomi, candace, xing, yelan, childe Also spiral abyss is blown way out of proportion. Not only is it like 0.2% of the game, it gives out 5 pulls… 5…. Now 1 time a month. 4 if you get 1 star in 12, 3 if you can’t get a star in 12. You get literally more by doing your dailies every day. You get exponentially more in events and any updates for the environement + maintenance. It takes not that long to complete. It’s also ‘END’ game meaning at the ‘END’ of the current game. So it makes no sense that players can finish it if they are brand new to earn their measly 800PGs. (Or in this case extra 200PGs) Maybe they could put in trial chars for this booty cheeks mode that ppl are for w/e reason obsessed with. Despite if you play the game you spend the least amount of tiem doing this than you would exploring, doing quests, and events(especially the premier events) Where you are in now a catch 22. You make the end game more challenging and then newer/less competent players can’t clear or you make it easily clearable by newer players and deprive the older players of actual endgame. If you increase the rewards you also make it feel worse for those that can’t clear vs the reality you are missing 1-2 pulls a month which realistically you were getting a blue weapon and in december you got 2 purples you missed that you probably didn’t want anyways because it was the flute. If one is a CC and hyping up missing out on the paltry rewards then they are failing to put things in perspective. I would argue it’d just be better to have more fun, varied post main game content. Not even “END” game as “END” game always devolves into stat/char/element checkers in these types of games but rather enjoyable activities one can partake in that don’t have high requirements but are just fun to do like well crafted combat events where you use their trial chars so it’s controlled and at the right difficulty, like those suped up bosses or wonky modifiers, interactive stories with their characters(Voice acted), cool new domains to play in like fischl’s stuff like this vs quibbling over a garbage mode that really isn’t that fun and has been the same for 4 years. Can’t speak to HSR. Just my thoughts on genshin. Since obviously some events prove many players can enjoy other things than “end game” like the windtrace event or the rythym game or the potential of custom lvls, advanced bosses or even unique ones, adding new game mechanics like parry n stuff etc. the tower defense games, expand upon these add them as post game content that all can enjoy irregardless of their game progress. Problem solved. Add extreme DPS/difficulty options with decent non primogem tied rewards such as 300k gold or something like 2 full ascension gems.

[@SeravySensei]

I'm seriously worried the new game mode might be so bad it makes the game worse, not better, guess we'll see in 2 days. -You're forced to play trial characters you don't like -You need a lot more built characters than Abyss so it's very P2W unless you're a veteran player -As far as I understand you'll get random characters in random order from the ones you choose to bring so teambuilding won't really be effective, all the synergy considerations will be down the drain making the large amount of niche or overly specific characters barely playable. -It's a directly opposing requirement to Abyss where you need fewer but more vertically invested units. It's impossible to invest both vertically and horizontally, even spending money only helps to an extent but max resin purchase is a thing so yeah good luck building an account that can do both game modes well, it'll take 3 years, but still over 1 year if you whale very hard. -It does NOT increase the time you can spend on the game nor overall rewards by a relevant quantity which is the main reason why people wanted more endgame content.

[@Souldapop]

In my opinion, more content is better because it shows that they've FINALLY started to at least try to give players what they want. I also have mostly seen different descriptions from different people and don't know who to believe. Plus hoyo did a terrible job explaining it during the special program. That said, I'm skeptical about them "forcing" trial characters on you, and the fact that they're available should make it a bit more accessible, but we'll see. Also, the trial characters are typically built well enough to clear any content the game has to offer - so I really don't get where this idea that they're inherently bad came from

[@SeravySensei]

@@Souldapop "more content" is good but this isn't more content. They're taking away half the abyss cycles and add that many theater cycles. You're playing the same amount, just in two different modes, each for half as much time. If the trial characters are not forced that's great but beta leaks implied they are forced and those are the only characters you get until you pull some "add more characters" events. The problem with the trial characters are these : -You don't know how to play the character and don't want to learn it because you aren't interested in the character so you're going to play them poorly and not have fun -You might have already played and disliked the character in which case you're going to outright hate being forced to use them anyway. -If you play the game on more than one account because there wasn't enough things to do to spend all your time, now every account will be forced to do the exact same thing with the same trial characters while in Abyss you can at least play completely different teams on each account. -If you hate the trial character's gameplay enough you might skip the entire game mode and effectively lose every second abyss cycle's worth of rewards.

[@Souldapop]

@SeravySensei It is more content, though. It's an entirely separate mode. Abyss may have stopped resetting every two weeks, but remember all those resets did through most of a patch was change the blessing. It's always been the same abyss for 6 weeks, and now it SHOULD change every month. We'll have to wait and see on that too, though

[@kuvrut7747]

I'm fine with Genshin, play it casually, and do not have issues with Abyss, My problem is with HSR, you pull for a character, and just to level it, you need a lot of resources, then to level up their traces, a fuck ton of resources, days grinding, and then to get them playable ... relics, grinding relics, until you finish a character there's a new stronger one out, and there are so many of them. DPS check in MoC is absurd, didn't pull for Aventurine, one shot, Fu Xuan cannot keep my team alive and she is properly built. Pure fiction became stupidly hard. New break meta. Got Firefly, Boothill, and Ruan Mei I had before. Now I must build Galagher and HMC to make them work. Who will grind that many Break/speed relics, and then they release a new set, a new character, that is stronger in the next update. Not to mention pulling on light cones. Some characters just do not work without the Light cones or are severely gimped, such as Acheron. Thinking of ditching HSR completely.

[@Souldapop]

People are really overlooking Firefly and Boothill's reliance on HMC. Next time MC gets a new version (if we don't get a similar character) both those characters are dead in the water

[@kuvrut7747]

@@Souldapop didn't even started building him. Just today got Firefly's traces. I'm she is on scuffed two piece break set. Just one. Because I do not have ATK body.

[@yoiko89]

I quit HSR after I see how painful is the end game content (the game become more and more walk towards the power creep)

[@kuvrut7747]

@@yoiko89 I used to 12* moc then all of a sudden floor 12 I can barely get one star. After Aventurine came out I get one shot in floor 11… floor 12 is absurd.

[@yoitsaroma]

This video made me stop to think about this topic for a good while over here. Everything you say makes sense, but I have a hard time properly relating to it because the way I deal with gachas is a little different. To me, games like HSR, Priconne (RIP) and Nikke are things I do at work or whenever I'm outside, but I rarely play them at the same time or for a long time. For example, last time I played Genshin was around November, and ever since then I didn't bother to play the game much besides trying the new abyss stages whenever they drop. With Star Rail, I played for one month when it released, dropped and came back around 2.0 and was playing it consistently until april. There's other examples, but my point is that at least to people like me, having multiple gachas available is a plus, because I for sure won't stick with one for long, but if you show me something new that looks good, odds are I'll try it. Case in point: ZZZ. I like the style, combat looks fun and some characters look dope, so hoyo will for sure get the money from my welkin and pass at least, something they wouldn't have otherwise. Just to make it clear, I'm not saying they shouldn't improve their current lineup of games, but just maybe Hoyoverse is doing what they're doing for a reason and they must have some data to back that up, right? Some people may say I'm the exception, but looking at the current trend, it makes me wonder if that's really the case.

[@Souldapop]

That plays into something I meant to talk about but didn't really find a way to work in: there people are drawn to the games because they're gacha . In their case, the lotto strategy works. The games don't have to get better because improvements would likely go unnoticed by them, anyway, but what sets hoyo games apart is that they're more than that. Being a gacha isn't what brought the audience in

[@pronoun171]

Feel so bad for soul, he tries to make rational arguments in a game where the simps have brain rot and ignore anything that isn’t boot licking content. I saw this kind of abyss coming along time ago so I went both vertical and horizontal investment when people where still arguing that you only needed two teams 😂

[@yoiko89]

Yeah I already saw that too.

[@zandikaa]

You just said you were f2p then you said you cleared the shop's yearly reset three times in a row? My guy, do you know what f2p means?

[@Souldapop]

"Since my protest video back in February, I've been f2p." What's hard to understand about that? All the spending I did was before that video, and I have not spent since that video. Understand?

[@zandikaa]

@@Souldapop Gonna be honest, it's hard to understand what you were even saying. So I completely missed that. You have a habit of running your sentences in circles and filling it with jumbled nonsense. You still aren't f2p because your account has paid assets on it. You have battle pass weapons, no? That's an advantage a f2p player will never have.

[@Souldapop]

@zandikaa I am currently f2p as I am not spending money right now. I was not f2p before. I was pretty explicit about that. That said, I did one take this video so there wouldn't be jump cuts with my model, so it was a bit less coherent than what I usually do, so I can understand getting lost - to an extent, but this is something I spent time clarifying. I said exactly what my spending habits were

[@oyatsu3709]

Hoyo with Genshin - making stupid mini games for children and no actual endgame... No I dont count abyss nor the new theater as endgame since that new game mode is just abyss with extra steps. Hoyo with HSR - Actual good story and 4 types of endgame not to mention unique characters that are all useful in some way or another. While in Genshin all 4stars felt niche since Inazuma and felt like they needed to be c6 to be what 1.0 4stars were. (waaay more generous compared to Genshin always get the feeling like its not made by the same game dev studio lol) WuWa at least for me has way better and satisfying combat as for endgame lol well... If you played it since launch every day you should be union lvl 50 by now and should by trying holograms at difficulty 5 or even 6 depending on your luck with echoes that is and clearing tower of adversity with at least 18 stars. if you spent on the game should be even higher union lvl and probably have more chars lvled and geared.

[@ZETA14.88]

Shit on G, glaze HSR, glaze wuwa out of nowhere I am noticing a pattern here

[@oyatsu3709]

@@ZETA14.88 its just built up frustration of being treated like crap not actual hate for Genshin xd Ive been playing it daily without missing a day (1371) HSR i started 3 months later because i just expected it to be a turn based Genshin clone haha But boy was i wrong...... lol (playing it for 366 days)

[@dandreanthony5020]

@@oyatsu3709real Genshin I mid. Wuwa need to be released on console

[@oyatsu3709]

@@dandreanthony5020 for sure just finished the theater (new abyss) it was a joke lmao you just need to have been playing for quite a while and have 18 artifact sets 18 weapons and 18 chars for hard mode Though they keep forcing chars that i dont like down my throat

[@Tovy]

The new nice is almost nothing like abyss?

[@Souldapop]

Wut

[@yoiko89]

I feel Hoyoverse was making a casual game so their able to monopolized every Genre. I also play HSR but after 2.0 drop I quit and delete my account, I don't like how HSR power creep is hindrance my run in MoC and Hardest content, maybe i should try ZZZ but after i saw the cast having furry maybe I should stop (I don't like Furry design). Good thing WuWa exist even have minor issue I played it a long side my genshin impact account. I play if the game pick my interest and i like open world games.

[@shivanshgupta5657]

This is so real. I despised Neuvillette because how he has broken abyss. Didnt pull for him even after knowing how op he was and even though i had his weapon previously just because i didnt like his playstyle. Now i see how they make me suffer coz of this. I hate them even more for this.

[@HigherEchelons]

You can't really *play* Neuvillette. I'm not into his stationary playstyle(same reason I didn't pull Ayato). Skipped Arlecchino because there are two powerhouse pyro Natlan characters inbound. I got really discriminatory with who I pull because Hoyo is getting brutal with making certain units almost necessary. I no longer spend a penny with them. Player disenfranchisemeny with the QoL stop gaps, was a *choice* by Hoyoverse.

[@Souldapop]

100% agree. I got him on his rerun just because I'm an Archon collector and decided to extend that to the sovereigns. Plus, I wanted to be able to show that his c1 isn't necessary to run him with Furina. I've been insanely lucky in Fontaine, though, so I'm still sitting on 100 pulls atm, so I'll have guarantee for the archon when they drop

[@muizxmuiz]

no skip button is why I quit HSR. tho firefly made me came back, dont know for how long tho. need that skip FR

[@complimentbot7015]

Why would you play a game if you're just skipping all of the content?

[@dandreanthony5020]

@@complimentbot7015 figure out the answer yourself it’s obvious. Don’t patronize people. The reason why is because there is other aspects then the story and it’s that’s simple. Whether one views the other aspects important or not is their prerogative. They don’t have to explain why they only like other aspects and both the story. I for one have never liked the story and only play for the characters. Are you going to tell me my reason for play is less than yours? I mean seriously grow up you’re saying this is stemmed from immaturity. Better yet how about I ask why do you care? Why are you so eager to be judgmental for something some does and does not like. You don’t hear me saying how you enjoys a trash story with a one dimensional mc 😂😂. You could just not use the skip feature that’s all you need to know. Stop oppressing and dictating what others should and shouldn’t like in a game that’s not for you to decide

[@complimentbot7015]

@@dandreanthony5020 wow

[@dandreanthony5020]

@@complimentbot7015 opened you up didn’t it.

[@complimentbot7015]

@@dandreanthony5020 only pointing out the obvious with a hint of anger

[@playwelldowell8739]

You are absolutely correct about Hoyoverse making the game but in different skins. They just want to new adrenaline they experience the success from Genshin initial launch & hopefully locks spending players into the games. Its like players will be left with either abandon the old games to make time for the new upcoming ones just to stay in trend, or spent on both to keep up their game with OP characters. Genshin 4.7 abyss is possible to clear as F2P old players like myself that dates back to 1.1, which focused on the Characters that i want to pull to C6. Having chars that can deal lots of dmg will save time for the other half. Going by this advice you won’t go wrong. I’m lucky to have a C6R1 Yelan, and now I’m focusing on Wanderer, which is C0R1. Will be saving for C6 wanderer. Now is wait and see how the new content restrictiveness will be.

[@yoiko89]

Imaginarium Theater is restricted element usage

[@playwelldowell8739]

@@yoiko89 i know. but does it make it impossible to obtain max rewards w/o certain 5* character is what I'm waiting to see.

[@Kangoshi_ru]

It isn't that hard. I'm playing for less, than a year, completely f2p, and I cleared it with Raiden c0 (Xiangling c5, Bennet c6, Chevreuse c3) and Ayato c0 (Nahida c0, Kuki c2, Kazuha c0). Had to use XQ c6 instead of Nahida in the first chamber to deal with pyro shields. Yes, it took me a few hours of practice, but it's doable. My weapons and artifacts are awful, my skills are level 9 max (I haven't used a single crown yet). Only two 5* weapons are Primordial Jade Winged-Spear on Raiden and Skyward Pride on Bennet. Ayato is on Harbinger of Dawn and Gladiator's Finale. My first 36* in 4.4 with those worms was WAY harder for me, than the current one. Sure, I got a little bit stronger since then, but still.

[@Souldapop]

Can you do it without Ayato? That's my point. He's one of the three characters - all five stars - that make second half bearable to three star

[@shivanshgupta5657]

Bruh, Do you expect everyone to spend hours on a floor just because you did ? Having neuvillette is the only check this floor had.

[@Souldapop]

@@shivanshgupta5657 If you're referring to me, I literally spent 10 minutes on it. It's in the video. Wym?

[@doug3454]

@@shivanshgupta5657 It's not a Neuvillette check. At best, you can say it's an AoE Hydro check. C0 Childe International does it more than well enough (took me 0 resets), for example.

[@Souldapop]

Honestly forgot about Childe when I mentioned three characters that are all five stars in another comment. It's four characters that are five stars: Neuvillette, Ayato, Kokomi, and Childe. It's really bizarre they'd do this when none of them are on banner. Idfk what they're thinking

[@cuzyzy419]

Make your point lmao 1 minute and you only talked trash

[@Souldapop]

Weird take even if you didn't watch the video because the thumbnail says "please stop" and the title is "Hoyoverse is Making a HUGE Mistake." FR, what else would you expect? That said, there is literally 0 trash talk in the first minute. Dafuq do you mean?