HTMX Sucks

[@atxorsatti]

"thankfully I'm a backend dev, I write nextjs" that hurt me a little

[@ignrey]

I'll use this phrase on twitter. Gotta piss the boomers.

[@atxorsatti]

@@ignrey some might say that the act of using Twitter is in it self a metaphorical urine on those pesky boomers.

[@naughtiousmaximus7853]

PHP soys seething

[@greyshopleskin2315]

Yeah, i guess that should make everyone notice this is all sarcasm. Still some people gonna think this vid is serious 💀💀

[@kierandansey7293]

If you don't build your BE with next.js you are probably a "Quiche eater"!

[@zebraforceone]

"Good software starts with clean code" [Laughs in 43.4% of the web is WordPress]

[@lmnk]

wordpress is good

[@affluent3364]

what language something is written in =/= badly written code

[@zebraforceone]

WordPress is OK. Its certainly made me a lot of money. But nobody can seriously argue that the core isn't a mess

[@pcost]

just makes it even more precise, *at least* 43.4% of the web is horrifyingly badly written

[@zebraforceone]

@affluent3364 oh absolutely, I'm an enormous Laravel fan. The WordPress core is horrendous in some parts though. I won't ever use HTMX for anything serious because of the lack of components, and poor separation of logic and content. But with all that said it seems moot to pick on HTMX for having laughable internal code when WordPress is powering 43% of sites online - that's what I was trying to get across

[@Mordinel]

As the CEO of HTMX, I both endorse and denounce this video.

[@MichaelM-hj2mx]

I am also the CEO of HTMX, and I can both endorse and denounce the above endorsement and denouncing of this video

[@owenwexler7214]

I too am the CEO of HTMX. And I am Spartacus.

[@-Kal-]

I'm the CEO of HTMX, and this is my favorite comment in the comment thread.

[@ControlAltPete]

@@-Kal- I am Spartacus, the CEO of HTMX.

[@J1Jordy]

HTMX CEOs, unite!

[@wojteksowinski248]

It actually worries me how many people in the comments don't get that this is satire

[@t3dotgg]

Very useful confirmation that the haters don't actually listen to me lol

[@StiekemeHenk]

Maybe satire but some points are genuine, and it's great to see they're aware .

[@niek_de_piek]

@@t3dotgg lol so true

[@AmirHosseinHonardust]

I took it seriously for a while, because I know of a few colleagues that made these arguments genuinely. Be worried.

[@netTraverser]

You want a cookie because you DO get that this is satire?

[@patrickaikonia853]

And I quote, "I'm the biggest hater, I hate the way you write, the way you build, I even hate the way you deploy, thats just me I guess".

[@friendly__drone9352]

"I even hate when you use var. It doesn't have to be deep I guess"

[@television9233]

"We don't want to see you write code anymore"

[@thunder____]

Waiting for "Meet the Hypertext" to drop

[@jacoblockwood4034]

Meet the JavaScript Frameworks (7 hours long) (had to delete and repost because apparently this comment got me shadowbanned ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

[@Nick12_45]

@@jacoblockwood4034 lol happens to me too

[@nicholasbergesen7934]

This video is dripping with sarcasim but people are gonna take Theos comments seriously. 💀

[@mordamen]

I'm ashamed to say, it took me way too long to realize he wasn't actually serious and that it was just sarcasm

[@funkmasterhexbyte1684]

phew i got scared, time to go back to finding an htmx job

[@alexwerners]

Was just thinking the same 😂😂😂

[@karlssberg]

Was thinking this as well

[@sighofman]

omg he needs a /sarcasm in the thumbnail if so.

[@stephenjames2951]

Trying to figure out when Theo was being sarcastic and not was challenging in this video.

[@funkijote]

Yeah, this video was completely exhausting to watch.

[@codemonik]

I thought the entire video was going to be of Theo being sarcastic but then I read this comment at 9:17 lol

[@theprantadutta]

Prime wants to know your location / 25 Missed calls from Prime.

[@isaactfa]

htmx sucks because the code base is so simple that I, a mere guy, was able to hack a new feature + test suite into it and have it merged upstream after like an hour.

[@lashlarue7924]

You are merely a guy, friend.

[@VictorZamanian]

It's easy to get shit merged when you're the CEO of htmx.

[@johnrake4]

This video has so much sarcasm and deadpan I literally can’t tell what is real. It’s honestly quite confusing.

[@suic86]

I feel less stupid now, as I'm not the only one confused by this. :)

[@viniciusfs]

English is not my mother language. The real challenge here was figure out if I was not understanding the English or not understanding the sarcasm. 🤣

[@hall-effect]

Finally someone with reach says this. Hopefully primeagen will realize the suffering he caused among devs by pushing htmx. All the layoffs at AWS, Twitter, Google, Meta and Microsoft could have been avoided.

[@theshooter89]

Montana Butterfly Effect

[@unstable-horse]

Can someone make subtitles for this with /s annotations? I'm having a hard time keeping up.

[@zfbx]

I can help you with this, just take a sticky note and put "/s" on it and stick it to the screen right above the timeline. done :) lol

[@mitchellmnr]

run it half speed. But rather listen over reading subs - you may miss the satire :D

[@Greeem]

theres no need, its the entire video

[@danielherman668]

I actually came here for constructive criticism just to find out it is all sarcasm, I feel tricked

[@benjaminhon86]

Think frontend devs don't want their job taken by backend fullstack devs. There was an article that a company switched to htmx and managed to half the number of their frontend engineers

[@BusyGamerPeople]

so true

[@Fernando-ry5qt]

I am somewhat surprised they where able to, what do they do for a living? office apps? CRMS? Most of the time the UI takes a lot of time due to design changes, not UI per se haha

[@benjaminhon86]

@@Fernando-ry5qt I think there is alot of time saved when there is no frontend backend team conflict / agreeing how an app should be structured, nice thing about going htmx is it forces everyone to do both back and frontend. Also there is no need for APIs (design & maintain) as everything can be rendered in the backend and the full html served directly.

[@ritsu133]

at this point, i cant see why full stack dev, that still needs to learn how to UI (you can't throw css html and js for client iteraction, not everything should be done with htmx) can't just use something like next

[@Fernando-ry5qt]

@@ritsu133 Because...... climate?

[@storytimewithme2]

i can’t tell how many layers of trolling are happening anymore 😂

[@TremereTT]

I hope it keeps all easy to offend people away from the HTMX community.

[@VanegeEsperanto]

What's the point of satire if the half is not going to understand what is satire or not. Most of us can't get any information from this video because we can't be sure the opinion is genuine or not, or if the information is cherry-picked.

[@androsheinemann2745]

the author of HTMX wrote an article "htmx sucks" => what else than irony/satire can it be ???

[@avivshvitzky2459]

Why shud we know it was written by the author? I dont think theo mentioned it​@@androsheinemann2745

[@tobeqz7065]

12:30 I love how the browser instantly stutters

[@pau1phi11ips]

Classic! 😂

[@somebody-anonymous]

The browser was like:" let me prove Theo's point", while at the same time decrypting his sarcasm

[@klaudyw3]

As the CEO of HTMX i find it disgusting that you of all people would parrot out such pure garbage from someone like Carson. That's not even a real name!

[@ike__]

I want to see prime’s reaction to this

[@somebody-anonymous]

I am also looking forward to another layer of sarcasm, so funny

[@ScienceAfterDark]

@@somebody-anonymous Sarcasm-Inception!

[@gabrielpetry4099]

I have difficulties understanding irony, this episode got me really confused :(

[@CTimmerman]

Politics is known for not actually getting things done, and frontends are untrusted sources because they run on the client side, so can't be considered serious business as much as the back ends that should be more secure.

[@androsheinemann2745]

LOL

[@matthiaslangbart9841]

Reminds me pretty much of how Andre Tanenbaum, OS engineer guru in the early 1990s, wrote smack about a private project of a young CS student in Helsinki, Linus Torvalds.

[@LaughingOrange]

19:26 Primagen constantly screams about "FIVE DOLLARS A MONTH!". It's obvious he is in dire need of money.

[@mattdoestechstuff]

Not gonna lie. Took me a few minutes in to figure out this was satire 😅

[@tonypolinelli]

i still cant tell - is he joking?

[@RandomNon-interestingguy]

​@@tonypolinelliThe article is on htmx's website and is authored by the creator of htmx. Yes.

[@cyberducc]

is the blog satire or the video?

[@mattdoestechstuff]

Both the article and video are satire. Almost everything in the article could be taken as a benefit of htmx. The whole point from my perspective is both the article and Theo are trying to show how people are making these pointless comparisons all the time instead of just picking the tool they wanna use or learn.

[@HoarfrostTrickle]

The article is even written by the creator of HTMX, so, that is a rather good clue that it's satire. ^^

[@mohammedelsuissey1745]

One major problem for non-native English speakers (like me) is I cannot get when you're being serious and when you're being sarcastic.

[@witchmorrow]

don't worry it's not just non-native speakers lol, I knew this was satire but I didn't know which parts he actually did or didn't agree with, this was a very difficult video to parse out

[@hydranooni]

I'm definitely not a native speaker, but I can understand the sarcasm.

[@ianokay]

I don't think anyone can based upon the *way* in which he's talking. It's all just sarcasm. He's speaking totally (as we call it) "deadpan", meaning, no tells at all about what is sarcastic or not; you just have to assume based upon what you know about technology.

[@CTimmerman]

A simple, small, easy to read site is better at conveying information than yet another bloated animated Apple site clone that people who value form over function prefer. Alt tags are only useful if the image is important for blind people to know about, which many aren't despite linting tools nagging to always include them. The entire article and video are making fun of needless complexity of other frameworks.

[@rakseiify]

You'll get it with time and enough binging english-based media...

[@fatweeb1545]

"...the language in that excellent medium post is academic and, without a solid grasp of theoretical HTML, many of hte more important points in it will go over a typical web developer's head..." This is an elaborate shitpost based on that Rick & Morty copypasta isn't it?

[@markonovakovic3838]

Theo broke the internet with sarcasm. internet threw SarcasmOverflow exception

[@zwanz0r]

"How will you get a promotion of you don't have 3 times the files". So true. The only reason to use Separation of concerns.

[@samdriver9158]

Obviously I'm not the target audience (I'm a developer, but don't have time to follow the framework-of-the-week infighting) so maybe it's intentional for this to be practically incomprehensible to me. I do of course get that the article is satirical, and Theo is reacting to it by sarcastically agreeing - except sometimes when he doesn't. But I was hoping to at least indirectly learn something from spending time with this video. It feels like having too many layers of abstraction between the code you write and the HTML and JS that end up in the user's browser. Must be why I {love/hate} {htmx/react/vue/nextjs} so much! Courting engagement over information transfer makes recommendation algorithm go brrrrrrrrrrr.

[@ixywas]

It took me embarrassingly long to realize this is satire

[@Spinikar]

I hear ya bro. Took me a while too, I was so confused for a while.

[@Bittboy]

You're not alone - my sarcasm radar detector was being scrambled by Theo the entire time. It was only _after_ doing some digging that I noticed the comments talking about how it's all satire. What even is real anymore?!

[@CTimmerman]

​@@Bittboy Objective truth is that which can be independently verified, except everything is connected by gravity and such, and ontologically the only thing one can prove is one's own existence. Thankfully natural scientific models are accurate to over 5 sigma (99.999%).

[@Drayken]

So what you're saying is that if I apply to a junior react dev position and write "htmx bad", I'll immediately be hired? thank you theo will report back

[@cb73]

The worst kind of satire is meta satire… Theo pretending he’s in on the joke is laughable

[@DaLoler1]

Not knowing Carson wrote this , the layers of sarcasm got me confused 😂

[@DexBGN]

Any solution that avoids the use of the excessively bloated TypeScript and React in web development is welcome.

[@GaussianWonder]

There are 7 masks of irony and 7 masks of sarcasm worn in this video.

[@StyzeSoulmaker]

Being able to build using bash and some small tools is much nicer than being dependant on something big like nodejs for something as simple as htmx

[@TBTapion]

It's wild to cover what framework to pick based on job availability, which is actually somewhat important, in a blog post that's obviously very tongue-in-cheek

[@mihirphadnis2]

Jealous HTMX creators forcefully made Carson CEO

[@rangerboi9715]

Disclaimer: No primeagen was hurt in this video

[@aeronwolfe7072]

if my brain wasn't garbage collected, i'd be dead by now

[@TennSeven]

I can't tell what part of the commentary is sarcasm and which part is true and now I am going to go cry in a corner.

[@serhiimamedov]

Man there is so much sarcasm here I don’t even get your point😂

[@markuskonrad6049]

Damn, nice one. Now I wonder how many other videos of yours are just satire 😅

[@jacobdoran9433]

lt's a little hard to tell what Theo is reading from the article and what's his commentary.

[@sub-harmonik]

"the creator of react, dan abramov" lol. I feel like people actually think he created it sometimes. doing Jordan Walke dirty

[@madlep]

So many layers of sarcasm and irony I don’t even know what anything even is anymore.

[@tubbystubby]

"Obviously, backend engineers are always slowing everything down, they suck" Ouch! 😢

[@gaetanbloch7119]

In case you didn’t all noticed this was a very enjoyable display of sarcasm and I loved it 😂 one of your best video Theo !

[@Benmenesesjr]

I dont know if hes being sarcastic or not tbh

[@gaetanbloch7119]

@@Benmenesesjr Of course he is the whole thing is a satire starting from the article itself

[@Benmenesesjr]

@@gaetanbloch7119 Ye there was only a few minutes at the start where I didnt get it lol

[@stevenvroom1041]

At some point this was just sarcasm laid on top of sarcasm. I completely lost what you're talking about.

[@sobanya_228]

So much sarcasm, I'm not even sure what he's serious about.

[@RajarshiKhatua100]

theo is exploring his career at this point as a satirical comedian

[@kakaponick]

"I'm a JavaScript Dev. I have short-term memory" got me XDD

[@QuantenMagier]

As an Assembler and BASIC programmer I also like putting everything in one file first. The only reason to put things in different files is when either you have multiple programmers and want to works concurrently on the different parts of the code or when parts of the code are reusable as libraries or as a semantic separation (e.g. between frontend and backend and datastructures and algorithms). But separating code for no real reason into different files and folders just makes the code a pain for new users, having to search constantly for the right files containing the code you are looking for.

[@princetoast]

I thought he was serious until the "Full Stack" part, then I realized it was sarcasm 😂

[@proudkinglion2215]

Maybe some day Theo really will talk about HTMX downfalls. But now he is just clowning...

[@codeChuck]

Yeah, not even a word about the real price of htmx output compared to next js and json

[@protocol6]

What do you think about arrow-js?

[@OneOfThePetes]

VIM? Ewwww! I was trapped in VIM for days, once.

[@MNbenMN]

But.... How did you exit?

[@OneOfThePetes]

@@MNbenMN I bought a new computer. Vim is still running on the old one. It won't even let the battery quit.

[@md6886]

Cant wait to see @ThePrimeTime cook about this 😄

[@g.c955]

the implementation of htmx doesn't matter as much as the concept/ideas. If htmx model is indeed better, people can always rebuild the library to address the issues. So the real question is, is HTMX a better way to build stuff?

[@CTimmerman]

Yes, because it lets frontenders do frontend stuff without touching that dirty, dirty, ECMAScript.

[@ajaypatro1554]

What laptop are you using

[@flipperiflop]

"we have users to catch these mistakes"... I felt that :D:D

[@iantimmis651]

"you should have more folders than you have users if you're a real project" 🔥🔥🔥

[@emreq9124]

do you have video about unit testing ? For example, is snapshot testing valuable, when ? When to avoid ? How many types of testings ? How to write testable code etc...

[@codeChuck]

Everything mentioned here are located far from interest zone of Theo. I think : D About testing is better to consult ThePrimagen :)

[@guinogueira7]

I'm a musician who writes bad songs intentionally..gonna use htmx for the next one.

[@benbowers3613]

More window calls than lets and vars combined is truly insane

[@FidelGuajardo]

I love how you patted yourself on the back. I little humility like that is appreciated. At some point we all think we’re doing great until someone points out our ignorance.

[@Jason-yr6fy]

You are clearly too good at predicting what the next statement in this article is gonna be. From unintentionally stealing the htmx meme to bashing on the htmx website design before the article could do it. You are too good, man, haha!

[@junkymcjunkster]

I don’t know much about htmx and this article is written in a way that is essentially a Poe for me. This makes both this article and the video extremely frustrating. I guess I’m the fucking moron for being curious but not being inside enough to get how funny this is supposed to be? Shit is so smarmy, it’s smarmalade.

[@multispectrum]

I wish KZbin had a🖕button. I do both more coding, and more gardening than you. Sure my 3039r will get laughed off in r/farming but it’ll fuck up you and your neighbors gardens to plant row crops in no time. You think you’re a real backend dev? I do all of my backend in ingress annotations like a real dev. (alphabet5/turnstile-htmx-ingress-nginx) Seriously though… ❤

[@rakseiify]

if we take Separation of concerns as seriously as this article, we would need to create a separate language (or use I don't know, Phyton?) to deal with ARIA Roles

[@999fini]

"that's like, 2 times more views than my most popular video, and i'm really popular!" top tier deadpan humor i love you theo

[@999fini]

"terrible advice, you should have more folders than you have users if you're a real project" IM CRYING

[@Akroker1]

Does Dan get bothered when you call him the creator of react? I thought he didn’t like when people said that

[@Akroker1]

Oh lol it’s satire. I got played

[@bit9524]

"Separation of concerns" Puts a for loop in template xD What a legend btw haha

[@Lars-ce4rd]

Great video, I'm only left with one question. Theo, what's your stance on HTMX?

[@brentlidstone1982]

I'm very confused, isn't Carson Gross the creator of both intercooler.js AND HTMX? Yet he wrote this article...?

[@DuskyDaily]

Sarcasm dude

[@dave6012]

So many layers of sarcasm I don’t even know what to think 😅

[@PieJee1]

I like the concept of htmx, but the problem i'm seeing is in the library updates. If they remove or rename for example an attribute like hx-post it will not do anything, but it's still in the html. It's like adding CSS classes in your application and not apply stylesheets to it.

[@ducodarling]

As a framework developer I would, personally, like to say: What have you improved?🧐 Or do you just wait on someone else to do that...

[@ego-lay_atman-bay]

Now I'm off to watch prime's video with the creator of htmx.

[@flyingsquirrel3271]

Had a good laugh, thanks Carson and Theo :D

[@cajogos]

this is the most sarcasm I've seen in a video, great job!

[@nekogami87]

Ok, I wasn't sure if it was satire until I heard, "no build step" as an argument against lol

[@BenRose3d]

"You should have more folders than you have users." Nice

[@re.liable]

4:51 i was interested in that conversation but unfortunately dan's [main] twitter account has been deleted. unfortunate

[@raizen_u]

randomly asking , does anyone know what browser he use??

[@PabloGnesutta]

I get that theo reads this sarcastically, but is the article written with that intention? It is in the htmx website so I assume it is

[@tollernamen8699]

well coming to code separation in lets say a spring project, you would use html templates using smth like the thymeleaf template engine which are located in a different folder and can be taken care of soly by the frontend devs

[@AspirinC]

No wonder React is so popular when its users are so clueless that they don't notice this obvious sarcasm. Wow. Great job @theo but maybe you should have added a /s 😉 I'm also speechless that your live chat didn't get it.

[@tato-chip7612]

I love how the linear website lags while the htmx one doesn't clearly that lag is all the features loading, HTMX is doa :)

[@vigilanteer]

does using linux and vim make you gross ??

[@professormikeoxlong]

Why make a thousand folders bruh don't overcomplicate

[@gshard14]

I have seen many good projects start with single file + bad code. As of today there are 319 contributors to HTMX which is a nice for a project that started 4 years ago. The codebase will eventually become organized.

[@novantha1]

This video is actually perfect. People engage more with content they're annoyed by, and anyone who sees this and likes HMTX will be like "haha, funny satire, those other guys suck", and anyone who doesn't like it will say "haha, HTMX sucks, React is fine, those other guys suck", so Theo gets views and engagements from both sides.

[@vsjha18]

Did you say anything against vim ❓

[@nftsasha]

obviously it's trash, so I'm using it for my online text-based dungeon crawler

[@tas_cards]

If you’re actually doing that - is it using HATEOAS? Would be really funny to just edit the HTML to be like “yes I do have 99999 hp actually”

[@mang_tomas]

Antiquated Technology? COBOL is the Secret GOAT!!

[@henrikholst7490]

I am such a contrarian that I cannot help myself checking out htmx now, because the react code that our expensive consultant wrote for us is a black box i don't understand. i did do some web pages back in the 90s so maybe this htmx is accessible to someone on the lower end of the web-scale like myself.

[@TreeLuvBurdpu]

I have trouble tracking all the inverse sarcasm recursion.

[@tafm3446]

Good lord. For a while there I thought this was for real. Good one. Should have saved it for April fools next year. SMH 25min

[@peterszarvas94]

missed the prime video link, click on "some" at 0:38

[@christopherboisvert6902]

Honestly, I don't think putting server side logic into html is the solution even if it is satire. I really like the combo of React + Slim v4 (PHP Framework). I am thinking about upgrading to PHP 8.0 for getting the new features.