Hudson Bay Pattern Axes: Some History and Thoughts

A brief look at the Hudson Bay Pattern Axe from the Collins Legitimus through the Norlund Tomahawk, Snow and Nealley, Council Tool, Wetterlings versions and more.

[@ashleycoups3922]

Brilliant - loved that thank you so much. Context excellent, style super likeable. Thank you

[@davidlocke1668]

Got my first Cold Steel Thailand made version of this from Amazon last his week. Can’t wait to take it camping. Thanks for this video, I love history so this was awesome.

[@AshInTrees]

I think I've watched this video 10 times already. Love the history man, keep up the good work!

[@trucker8666]

History is good to know, always

[@Calebthelowber]

You need to make a video on every pattern in your collection!

[@iNeverSimp]

Just bought a 19in Council Tools Velvicut HB. Can't wait to try it.

[@_BigLife_]

Just purchased my first Hudson Bay off of a friend of mine. It's in the mail can't wait

[@grainsnseeds]

I really like these videos about the patterns, good work

[@13bravoredleg18]

The Trail Boss is a great little axe!

[@chadalcock7275]

I found a Collins Legitimus for $10 at a second hand store. Someone had painted the whole thing a brownish red, so the person selling it was all wood. Cleaned up pretty well. I think it was this video that convinced me to go back and buy it, 2 hours away.

[@YankeeWoodcraft]

The Hudson Bay pattern is a Spanish design brought over by Spanish trappers. It was a preexisting design before it hit North American shores.

[@basquebushcrafter7516]

Exactly! More specifically of the Basque axe or Biscayan axe, ancestor of these Hudson Bay axes of the tomahawk. The Basques are possibly the most antique tribe in Europe, divided between Spain and France. With an unknown language and very adventurous 🤛🤛

[@YankeeWoodcraft]

@@basquebushcrafter7516 Seguro que si hermano!

[@jastimbal60]

Great video! The hudson bay axes are my favorites!

[@yellowdog762jb]

Great video! I have a 2 lb. Collins that also has a black handle. I didn't realize until I saw yours that some may have come that way. I just thought someone had over toasted the wood, but it's in otherwise good shape, so I didn't replace it. It's really nice for limbing and cutting saplings where I deer hunt. I have a Woodslasher as well that I've yet to rehang. It's not a Hudson Bay pattern, but it's a beauty with nice narrow cheeks. I'm on the look out for some nice 26-28 inch or so wood for it. Woodslasher, what a great name for an axe!

[@andrewfarnsworth7178]

It was my understanding that the classic iconic trade goods of the Hudson Bay Company (axes, stripe blankets, and the like) were actually knock offs of the French trade goods that the natives had already come to expect as a gold standard in exchange for their furs. So Hudson Bay was forced to manufacture and provide the same quality of good as the French or the natives would just go back to trading with the guys that had the products they desired. I am left wondering if that French axe you compared to the Collins Hudson Bay pattern isn't in the end more of a copy of the traditional French trade axe that the Hudson Bay Company copied for trading in Canada. Fun history of a simple axe either way.

[@wildnwwoodward3756]

Very happy I found your channel

[@cabotbluegill]

Great I bought what I believe to be a Snow and Nealley in the early 1980s that looks the same as the one you have in the video. The sheath was different I bought it from Paul Grimshaw Trapping Supply it is not stamped but there was a sticker on it that has long been gone. Thank you for the time and effort you put into these vids you have so much information that you share

[@BushcraftSisyphus]

Good gouge!

[@grunt-0311]

Thanks to your video I just discovered my dad's old hatchet is an el Lobo!

[@adamnewman9162]

+1 on the double bit patterns. Would love to know more about the design history and philosophy of use.

[@BushcraftSisyphus]

From a lot of sources, double bits were THE professional axe in the United States for many years. The professional's choice. Yes, that would be a great video!

[@MyGraKat2]

Please do a history of the double bit video!

[@hillbilly4christ638]

That cold steel trail boss is no joke. It might not be classic, but it is well made. I own two of them, one with short and the other with the longer handle. They are well hung and do what I ask of them which is delimbing and wedge driving.

[@mikenormandy9250]

this was my first new axe I purchased (always had My Father’s and Grandpa’s older true temper’s or Craftsmen and garage sale/found axes) I keep it in the bed of my pick up and use it daily, not only to chop and cut but also as a Pickeroon! It is an extension of my arm whenever I am handling wood. Unforunately, bc of the heavy use, the metal wedges started working themselves out and as I decided to give it a few upside, inertia bangs, the haft went another 1” into the eye and I basically was just putting band aid wedges until I am able to re-haft! Which I promise it’s on the list and I won’t use it until it’s rehung.

[@cesaralvarado775]

I'm lucky to own many great classic axes. I'm hesitant to admit it, but that little unassuming Norlund Hudson Bay axe is probably my favorite. You can abuse it for hours without breaking a sweat, it chops as efficiently (often better) than the bigger quality heads, and the hard steel holds it's edge almost indefinitely.

[@saskabooshsnareman6685]

I have an hand forged hudsons bay pattern axe I found at the very bottom of a farm scrap steel pile likely an original home stead axe pre 1900

[@pmigliozzi]

Great video. I have a Snow & Nealley Hudson Bay from from probably 2000 or 2001. Not sure if this is when they were still producing them in the US or not. As I think at one point they went overseas for a bit. I like it, and probably one of my favorite patterns.

[@BushcraftSisyphus]

Yes they moved production overseas like everyone else for awhile before ownership of the brand passed to an Amish Community (true story) and moved them back to the US. I have a couple main friends filling in important parts to the Hudson Bay history and will have to do a Part Deux!

[@CuttingEdgetools]

Good Video 👍. I have a early Collins Legitimas/ Pre War for sure. Also have a little smaller L.L. Bean/ Snow & Nealy Hudson Bay similar to yours, with original 18” handle-but I believe earlier from the 1950s. Got Norlund’ too but my favorite is the older Collins🇺🇸

[@patrickcraig6032]

I have a Norland Hudson Bay and hatchet .I bought around 1970.Both are nice to use.

[@adamboone6864]

On the thumbnail photo the top left axe is a Montreal pattern. It’s a close copy to the Hudson Bay with a seat down. The seat down was forged by using the corner of an anvil or a piece of 5/8” round stock.

[@grosebud4554]

I have a snow and Nealley.. the first one broke on the first swing when I was trying to split some small hickory pieces for my smoker. I think it was a freak accident and my fault for. It really spending real time sharpening... I got my replacement yesterday and spent a solid hour or 2 working on the blade and removing the lacquer. This one has been perfect.. the modern snow and Nealley are pretty damn thin compared to the older ones.

[@kylesheridan8835]

How you do not have more subscribers baffles me. Great video aswell.

[@BushcraftSisyphus]

Nobody cares about axes (crying/laughing/crying) 😭😂😭

[@HomeWrecknKneeKnockr]

@@BushcraftSisyphus more videos please🙏🏻🤡👍🏻

[@pahlavandan3989]

I got 2 wetterlings!! Switched one to a longer handle, feels better now

[@feralgrandad4429]

Sadly Wetterlings Hudson Bay was in my Son car what it was stolen. Doubt I'll ever find another. Might have to pick up the Council Tool version to hold me over. Nice channel. Subscribing was easy decision.

[@jerrymensing6283]

Buckhorn canoe company still has a couple left and there brand new with original wetterlings booklet. My wife just got me one for my birthday and it’s legit, better hurry tho! Good luck!

[@4StringSling]

Great video! Please do one of Puget sound pattern, thank you!

[@GiantPinhead]

Great! Well done.

[@BushcraftSisyphus]

Rabbit hole, brother 🐰

[@richkeagy8907]

Fantastic video! What was the purpose of the notch on the underside of some of those axes?

[@hawcreekbladeworks7291]

Very informative thanks

[@BushcraftSisyphus]

Thank you!

[@mikenormandy9250]

FYI: The Forest service actually did not use Norlund’s as they were more a Sportsman axe, for their smaller weight and size, the Forest service preferred 3.5lb-5lb axes. The HB pattern is my ABSOLUTE FAVORITE axe pattern (next to the German Rhineland pattern, which is clearly similar. Nothing tickles my fancy like a small, but strong and pronounced pile for banging with a BIG wide bit! LOL😂 -

[@terryhatton3622]

I have a council tool el lobo axe and several norlund and a couple snow and nealy hudson bay axes. What's the difference between genuine norlund and just plain norlund?

[@karsonpharris2677]

Just happen to have a USA, snow and nealley Hudson Bay mad in the us. Great axe for two or one hand. Just have to finish the edge when you get them nowadays.

[@jimcoyle7262]

nice video! thanks !! liked !!

[@cal1776]

Well.,I guess it's official. I'm a axe nerd. Really enjoyed this video.

[@jbranstetter04]

I have one with the rectangle around the Collins, and it is the same profile, thickness angles etc, as the the old one in the video and has the notch, but not quite as pronounced. The line at the top of the Collins is about 5/8 from the end of the head. Not sure when it was made, but with the rectangle I believe it is their lesser quality Axe.. perhaps the finish being not so fine, polishing etc. It has FWS stamped on it, which I believe stands for Fish and Wildlife Services, a federal government agency.

[@cmoore7780]

I know this is old but what are your thoughts on the cold steel version? Also the CS Hudson Bay Tomahawk?

[@duncansmith1621]

I have the Norlund, which I bought new many years ago. It was the axe I learned on. Many handles later I still have it. I also have one of the Snow and Nealley Hudson Bay axes from before they went overseas. Yes, the Norlund has a thinner bit, but that makes it lighter. So I prefer to take the Snow and Nealley as a light weight backpacking axe, because the slightly heavier bit weight makes it a noticeably better chopper. I think I once made somebody upset when I said that I believed my Snow and Nealley Hudson Bay axe was on par with my Gransfors Bruks Forest axe. I think he stopped listening before he heard what I was saying. My opinion is based on chopping wood. And I always clarify that all of my Snow and Nealleys (all of them are older ones) required a lot of file time to thin the edge before they cut well. But they all cut very well. Because the head on the Gransfors Bruks Forest axe is very light weight, to me it does not seem to cut better than my Snow and Nealley Hudson Bay. I don’t find any advantage taking one over the other for building fires in the backcountry. I have used the Snow and Nealley for occasional light trail clearing (coming across an unexpected downed tree), and has performed satisfactory. Due to random chance I have not used the Gransfors Bruks for similar tasks. Hudson Bay axes are great backpacking axes.

[@BushcraftSisyphus]

I have no doubt your axes will hold their own against all comers! You put the time in and the performance was the reward. It is definitely a great pattern when tuned and hung well and the S&Ns were great axes before they moved production overseas, but I do hear good things about the Amish set-up now. Eventually I'll get around to trying the new ones.

[@ajaxtelamonian5134]

Council tool ones cut good from the get go maybe a brief file would help but cant argue with the performance.

[@rosscostanzo5115]

O.K. so, as I'm trying to choose I could really use your input. Council Tool's Hudson bBay 28" axe vs Cold Steel's Trail Boss?

[@ryanf775]

My girlfriend just gifted me a Best Made Co. Hudson Bay 2 1/2 lb for my graduation, very cool video. very excited to see how she cuts!

[@juliegeraldine8496]

Dude says " not the best specimen i've ever seen" a well preserved brand new looking norlund hudson bay pattern, probably the best axe ever made!

[@bennettcooper7586]

I have a 3 1/2 pound felling axe that looks like a giant Hudson Bay pattern. The blade profile is like a Michigan. Any input on that?

[@MattKeevil]

Montreal pattern? kzbin.info/www/bejne/mniTeJefrreml5Y

[@ronsilva516]

Very entertaining nice history 🤓🤓🤓

[@dthundergunb3115]

I have a Collins but it's not the legitimus it's got the Collins name inside a rectangle, I had it given toe for free lol it was in the forgotten corner of a friend's shop rusting away. I cleaned it up and I use it quite a bit. I also got a Norlund as well both have been rehandled and I use both regularly one I take camping with me every time its my favorite for camping purposes of cutting up kindling and building small fires, also to limb tree trunks I fell withy fiskars x series chopper the Hudson bay axe is special tie I love the heel the french trappers used them to hook the lines to their beaver traps when retrieving them from the river, and to cut up kindling for small fires for cooking lunch on the trails. For anyone unfamiliar with hB pattern axes they're not for splitting and heavy use you will loosen the head, because the eye is so small when you get it stuck don't try to pry it loose, take a wedge and rescue it. I've learned that the hard way. You can however split small logs with it but I'd advise caution doing so. I'm about to rehandle my Norlund HB to an 18" scout axe handle today my Collins has a 24” handle and it's perfect for use as both a hatchet and to give it just enough leverage as a small axe to chop up the all stuff and limbing trees easily. Great video Brother, these axes have a great history and we're definitely popular for hundreds of years.

[@terryhatton3622]

I have a lobo and love it. Ll bean snow and neally hudson bay hatchet.

[@destro6971]

I just rehung an El Lobo on a Killinger red elm handle, it’s so fun. 😆🐺

[@BombproofCraftsman]

I’m sure you already know, being a collector. But council tool has changed their pattern. It’s now shorter in OAL & taller in the poll.

[@taewankim6283]

What is the notch for?

[@keithhastings]

I know this is an old video, so hopefully you’ll see this comment. I just lucked out at an estate sale and picked up a Collins Hudson Bay pattern boy’s axe for 3 bucks. The Collins stamp is in the block letters with the rectangular box around it. There is no notch. The cheeks are similar to the Wetterlings in your video. They are not thin like the Legitimus Any idea what dates it may have been produced? It is also on the original handle, (I think). Genuine Collins Hickory on the handle, but it is a little thick, so I’m thinking it’s more modern. Any insight would be appreciated!

[@jbranstetter04]

My opinion is that it is more modern. I have one with the rectangle around the Collins, and it is the same profile, thickness angles etc, as the the old one in the video and has the notch but not quite as pronounced. The line at the top of the Collins is about 5/8 from the end of the head. Not sure when it was made, but with the rectangle it is their lesser quality Axe.. perhaps the finish of it not being so fine, polishing etc.

[@alexr7298]

There's a lot of hubub in the axe community about the short eye of this pattern being a serious design flaw -- one that inevitably results in a loose axe head. Has this been your experience? Or do you think this is just a lot of unfounded conjecture?

[@vr0p]

I'm no expert but it sounds like voodoo to me. There's a lot of variables that go in to making a handle loose (wood type, wedge type, were metal wedges used, did the metal wedges splinter the top of the handle, where is the axe stored, how heavily is the axe punished). The size or shape of the eye I does not seem like a factor to me, or if it is, it would be secondary to all the other factors I've listed. Where I work I have the opportunity to take my pick of axes out of metal to be scrapped, and 95% of them regardless of pattern are going to have loose handles, or that bush-fix where a screw has been driven in to the eye. Bottom line, axe handles come loose P.S. the tightest fit I've ever seen was on the gnarliest rusted out, asymmetric, battered eye on a ~80-100 year old axe. It took me two hours of sawing and pounding and scraping to clear the eye of the wood (had to, since it was badly split down at the palm swell and unusable). So yeah I strongly think that the shape and condition of the eye is almost meaningless, compared to the other variables.

[@climbe4422]

Good video . It's amazing how norlund was successful at a time when axes were Going out. I love my my Hudson bay belt hatchet .where they the only company to make that size pattern?

[@markgreer6921]

I luckily found a norlund hatchet for 8 bucks at a auction and like it alot

[@BushcraftSisyphus]

Very good find.

[@OzMan9989]

Check out the 2020 Cold Steel Hudson Bay with easy to transfer head.

[@keithhagler502]

I miss the 80's :/ And the Trail Boss is more of a German pattern than a Hudson Bay imo. I love the Trail Boss a LOT more, but I'm not trying to irritate Hudson Bay users.

[@codyironworks307]

I forged myself something very similar last week

[@Steve_G88]

How aboot a Canadian made Hudson Bay axe bud?

[@BushcraftSisyphus]

We think Walters may have made one, but they are rare as hens teeth if they did. Any other Canadian labels were probably made by True Temper.

[@Darltornjacket]

I have a Snow and Neely. The handle is more traditional Thanks. Cheers

[@Calebthelowber]

I have a nice no stamp walters hb. Only reason i know what it is, is because i got it off the tree topper who used it for 35 years. His wedge banger i bought is walters also

[@BushcraftSisyphus]

Would Walters have made the Forest King? I found that one pic of a labeled Forest King and I thought those might have been Walters and others.

[@AshInTrees]

@@BushcraftSisyphus I believe Forest King was Welland Vale. Walters had one called King of the Woods as well.

[@BushcraftSisyphus]

Yeah that sounds about right @@AshInTrees King of the Woods! That would a great one to find.

[@ajaxtelamonian5134]

Sold mine sadly but the Rinaldi I got fits the bill its just not quite as good for splitting i feel the Rinaldis pattern is probably where the pattern originated though or at least very close

[@13bravoredleg18]

My Rinaldi large Caldore 1500gram (3.3 pound) axe is a great splitter. Easy to make different length handles for it.

[@ajaxtelamonian5134]

@@13bravoredleg18 Nice really would like a bigger rinaldi. Am torn between a Trento, heavy duty calabria and the Cadore. Postage is insane though.

[@guruprotman]

If the snow and neally has that handle it is pre 1965

[@justicar5]

not entirely sure what the difference between a rheinland and a hudson actually is.

[@thatflame]

Where’s the bushcraft part of the channel or is owning axes considered bushcraft

[@anthonyclark9159]

This is an axe channel, there is no bushcraft going on. Collector

[@thatflame]

anthony clark literally has bushcraft in the name but ok

[@thatflame]

anthony clark and honestly could give a shit less

[@anthonyclark9159]

@@thatflame dipshit, I'm telling you that if you look through his channel there is no bushcraft going on. He collects shit and makes videos on the items he'll rarely use.

[@885Blackjack]

Hot take, the Trail Boss sucks. Who wants a made in Taiwan Hudson Bay? Fart noise*

[@out-landishintheokanagan270]

I have a Hudson Bay. It is only stamped 'USA'. It doesn't have the notch. I traded it with a friend's dad. I gave him a shiny double bit that was only stamped 'Made In Switzerland'.

[@1südtiroltechnik]

03:46 Very thin cheeks? These cheeks are not thin. Maybe for its time, but not for today. Remember, in the 1950s the Itlis Axe Pattern was designed and People in Middleeurope had even thinner cheeks than this. But even in America in the 1960s they had very thinner cheeked axes, i saw in a old catalog where these were advertised on Archive.com

[@PMoney365]

I found a nice Collins hubson bay pattern at a thrift store for $6 recently. I knew nothing about it other than it looked cool. Thanks for the history!